410. Javier Vilalta

This week on Stageworthy, host Phil Rickaby welcomes Javier Vilalta, a Mexican-Canadian interdisciplinary artist, stage director, movement coordinator, translator, and co-founder of 8ROJO Theatre. Based in Calgary, Javier shares his journey through performance, directing, and devising unique and often non-verbal theatre experiences. He reflects on his early challenges as an immigrant artist, the evolution of his creative voice, and his mission to help shape Calgary’s cultural identity.

This episode explores:

Javier’s early artistic influences and his pivot from acting to directing
The founding and philosophy behind Ocho Rojo Theatre
Creating intimate, high-concept work for small audiences
His experience directing across Canada and internationally
Thoughts on diversity, representation, and creative freedom in Canadian theatre
His recent production of Mary Stuart and the upcoming queer retelling of Romeo and Juliet with The Shakespeare Company

Guest:
🎭 Javier Vilalta
Javier is a Mexican-Canadian visual performance creator, stage director, movement choreographer, and translator. He resides in Calgary, where he attended the University of Calgary’s Fine Arts department.

As a stage director and movement choreographer, he has collaborated with companies such as Vertigo Theatre, Theatre Calgary, Sage Theatre, Downstage, Lunchbox Theatre, The Shakespeare Company, CYPT, Jupiter Theatre, Chromatic Theatre, Inside Out Theatre, The Guild Hall, and StoryBook. He has earned two Betty Mitchell nominations for direction and choreography.

In 2005 he co-founded, along with Black artist Norma Lewis, the visual performance ensemble 8ROJO. With this group, he has devised five interdisciplinary creations; with which he has travelled around Canada and as far afield as Mexico, Czech Republic, Sweden, France, Taiwan, UK, and Iceland. With 8ROJO, he was awarded the ‘Innovation in Performance’ award at the 2016 STOFF Festival in Stockholm, Sweden; and he was a finalist for a 2021 Off West End Award in London, UK for Outstanding Production.

He has translated the texts ‘100 Love Poems and a Song of Despair’ by Pablo Neruda and Federico García Lorca’s ‘Rural Trilogy’. He translated and adapted the Mexican modern opera Anjou: The Musical Horror Tale for Broadway Cares / Equity Fights AIDS.

Since 2010, he has assessed and developed educational sessions based on body mechanics, movement for the stage and visuals in motion, which he has shared with artists around the world.

Connect with Javier:
📸 Instagram: @javidirector

Support Stageworthy
If you love the show, consider supporting on Patreon: patreon.com/stageworthy

Transcript

Transcript is auto-generated and may contain minor errors.

Phil Rickaby: Welcome to Stageworthy, Canada’s Theatre Podcast: I’m your host, Phil Rickaby. If you’re watching on YouTube, make sure that you like this episode and hit that subscribe button so that you’ll never miss an episode. And also hit that bell icon so that you’ll get a notification every time a new episode is released. That way you’ll never miss an episode. If you’re listening to the audio overs and make sure that you are subscribed or following the podcast so that every time I release an episode, it will download to your device and that way the audio version will never be missed in your in your podcast feed.

My guest this week is Javier Vialta. Javier is a Mexican Canadian visual performance creator, stage director, movement coordinator and translator. He describes himself as an interdisciplinary artist. Um, he resides in Calgary where, uh, he works as a stage director, movement director and all of the things I mentioned before, uh, we have a great conversation in this episode where we talk about everything from his journey in theare. Um, how a comment from somebody, uh, early on, uh, could have been very discouraging but actually spurred him to become a director. We talk about what he loves about Calgary’s theare scene, we talk about theare in Canada and so much more.

Before we get to the episode. I do want to mention my Patreon. I cannot do this show without my patrons. Uh, they’re the ones who make sure that I’m covering the cost of this show. And in return, patrons get early access to episodes. They get to be part of the discussion. Whenever I’m considering a topic to discuss, uh, I always go to the patrons and let them have, uh, some conversation and we can figure out am I on the right track or. And we can discuss possibilities for conversations later on. And as the Patreon grows, there will be so much more content and much, so many more perks that I’m able to offer. I would love to have you as a patron. If you enjoy this show, go to patreon.com stageworthy and hit the subscribe button and become a patron for just $ Canadian a month and you’ll get access to early episodes and all the rest of the perks. And again, I will be forever grateful that you decided to back this show. And now here’s my conversation with Javier Vialta.

Javier Vialta, thank you so much, uh, for joining me. Um, let’s just, uh, jump in and uh, you know, uh, this is our first time meeting, so I’d love to hear how you describe yourself as an artist.

Javier Vialta: Well, I’m mostly primarily an Interdisciplinary creator. And what that means is that in uh, performance I bring different um, disciplines together to create one, to fuse them together, to create one creation. Um, and that’s what I’ve been doing for mostly the last decade or two. And um, I also uh, recently came back to theare because theare is something that I have done in the past as well. And I am also a stage director. So I’m a combination of both.

Phil Rickaby: As far as your performance and artistic life started, um, where did you begin and how did you be determined that you were going to be an uh, interdisciplinary artist?

Javier Vialta: Well, my goal always was to be in theare, but I went to the University of Calgary and this was back in the day, maybe a couple of decades ago. The opportunities for, especially for me as an immigrant artist were very slim. We have one artistic director here in Calgary where I live who said as an immigrant director, you will never work here. And the words were so strong for me that I said I need to pivot here otherwise I will never work in the arts again. I took it to hard. So I started looking more into, into this merired, uh, creation. So I started to look into um, performances from other countries where they did performances that were non verbal. So anything that was created was just image based. And uh, I slowly started working towards that. So that’s really how I got there.

Phil Rickaby: That’s, I mean that’s quite a harsh statement to say to somebody. And that would be very discouraging in some ways. I bet, I’ll bet. Do you think that things have changed much in like, has there been enough of a change in that scene to sort of like uh, undercut what you were told back in that conversation?

Javier Vialta: This may sound really bad but um, there was an event where the Black Lives Matter started, uh, but created this awareness of people, not only black people for indigenous and people of color and where the position was in the world overall, but especially in the arts. There was a huge transition of like we have been ignoring these groups and they, this is what is happening now. And I really, when everyone just started looking at that I was like maybe it’s my time to return to theare now that there’s more opportunities for me. Maybe after all this I can see the uh, positive in what happened in the world and try to go back. And I think that’s the switch. That’s what motivated that was the trigger. Um, I feel like that intention is dying unfortunately. Um, I think we’re going back a little bit. But because I was able to introduce myself in that little narrow uh, window of opportunity I just continued since then.

Phil Rickaby: There was that moment during uh, that summer of 2020 um, when uh, so many of the theares that weren’t able to put on the usual work where suddenly talking about the conversations they were having and the changes they were going to make and the black square they were putting on their Instagram and all of those things. Um, and with few exceptions many of them did not carry through with those promises and those statements. Um, as soon as it became the wheel of production started going, um, it was very easy for them to just leave that all behind them. Um, which is really disappointing. We kind of hope that our theares will stick with the things that they say. Um, but you said that you sort of like had a moment and is it because of that moment? Ah, uh, because you sort of slid in in that period that you’ve been able to keep working.

Javier Vialta: I think so, yeah. Because I really saw the window of opportunity. Now let me tell you bit before there um. There’s no such thing as a Hispanic theare director. It’s just not known. You know there’s film directors that are very uh, well known. You know, uh, three Mexican directors. I have one almost won the Oscar almost back to back. You know, it’s almost like look like those creators were taken very seriously. But in the fear world that’s not a thing up to this date. Uh, the, in Calgary for example, the biggest companies have never had a Hispanic director ever. And some of them have been around um, being around for like 50 plus years. Uh, so it’s a challenge. But I think that it will be a good legacy to say you know I started this so maybe others can follow. So at this point I’m not willing to give up that opportunity because I started it. So uh, I’m just gonna try to stick with it. Ah, I was able to direct one piece for uh, uh, accomanying Calgary called Vertbro theare that produces only a um, mystery horror place. And I was of course the first Hispanic director for them. But there’s still other companies in, in Alberta in general that never had a Hispanic or Latino director before. And I’m just trying to see if I can make um, myself uh, present and available for that kind of opportunity.

Phil Rickaby: Ye. Somebody always has to be first, right? Somebody to, has to open the door for other people. Right? Um, you know I look at uh, uh, the trajectory of somebody like Guillo del Toro who um, doing indie films and sort of like genre films and like, and eventually working up to these huge big budget films, um, saying he’s one of the People that’s opened the door for other film, uh, uh. Uh, Mexican, uh, film directors. Um, and somebody has to do that in the theare world, especially out in Alberta. Um, tell me a little bit about, um, how you first became interested in theare.

Javier Vialta: I think I was just born with it. It is very strange because I, uh. Nobody in my family has any artistic incarations whatsoever. Um, but my mom, uh, she really liked taking me to the theare. Just maybe as far of g. Some culture, I guess. And I just really learned to love it. And I remember when I was 10 years old, that was my first experience. I directed with my family a version of A Christmas Carol that I wrote. And we presented before Christmas or after Christmas dinner. And ever since then I just. I have not stopped. I mean, of course, uh, not professionally, but it’s just something that I just card with me. I guess maybe the experience was, uh, introduced to me so early in life that I just right away recognized it as something that just really excited me.

Phil Rickaby: Yeah, I mean, I’ve talked to a lot of people and there’s basically two kinds of people. People who always performed and people who had a moment when they went to the theare and it just. That was it for them. And there seem to be a lot of in between. There was like, always performed and the had a moment.

Javier Vialta: Yeah. But I mean, the first time I went, uh, they told me I went toir. I was four. And they said that I wouldn’t move. Like, I was just fascinated by that. People around me were looking at me that I was just like, with my eyes open, just staring at. Was happening in front of me. So maybe that was just really. You know, a lot of people have that epiphany when it’s later in life. But I think I just had it when I was just. Just four years old.

Phil Rickaby: I think, uh, one of the reasons why I love seeing children in the theare and you know, that’s clear. Not every play is appropriate for children. But when there’s a show for children, it is so important to get the kids in that audience. Um, I had the privilege of watching a child in their first, uh, go to see their first show a number, uh, of years ago. And it was a Christmas panto. And for them it was so real. They. They like you didn’t move. And when the curtain came down and when the show was over, they were waiting for their friends to come out. They were just like. And it was a, uh. It was sort of fascinating to watch somebody awaken to theare. And so that’s all that’s’s an amazing thing.

Javier Vialta: Definitely.

Phil Rickaby: So there was no. There was something else that I wanted. I wanted to ask you about. Um, you. You. You mentioned, um. Uh, uh, uh, that. Oh, yes. So, you know, you had. That you were performing, you were like that sort of thing. But at some point you must have come to the realization that this was something that somebody can do. It’s not just something to. It’s not just play time. It’s something you can do. Do you remember what that was?

Javier Vialta: Uh, it’s just the journey is complicated. But I think that what really pushed me to make those decisions in a very. To not give up on end. Because this is a very tricky career and I think it’s really easy to just give up when opportunities don’t come your way. But I had the opportunity to travel from Mexico City to Calgary back in the day, and, um, I didn’t have anyone. I mean, English is my second language and I have nobody. So my only option if I wanted to quit was to go back to what I had before. And I just wasn’t gonna have it. And it was really hard. But I think that that’s when I made a decision that I’m like, if you don’t make this work, it’s just back to square one. And I just refused to do that. So, uh, maybe this is more like an immigrant story than an artist story. But, uh, you always have two pets, uh, which just give up or just continue. And in my case, I just said whatever I need to do, I just can never give up. And it was pretty hard. But, uh, I think it’s just the resilience that really drove me through all the obstacles. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby: Is in some way, I mean, what is the difference between the immigrant story, the. And the artist story? When the person who’s telling the story is an immigrant, there is like, it’s. They’re one of the same, they’re intertwined. Um, now directing, you wanted to do theare. You wanted to be an actor. Um, and you know, somebody made a comment about Mexican or Hispanic actors and you decided to go into directing. Um, what was the path that you took once you decided to become a director? Where did you go? How did you do it?

Javier Vialta: I think just something that always h in me, but I really wanted to be an actor at first. And then I started getting really frustrated with being in place. I started becoming hyper aware of being in a play and the repetition of it and doing the same thing over and over. I thought it was going to go crazy. And it was, uh, in my last year at university I was in a show that we took to England to this old house calledorth where they also do big concerts. Ah, and we did like a ah, play based on uh, some writings that the man who lived there um, had written. And I remember this is the moment that I said acting was not for me because somebody. It was me at another person on stage and he said something to me and I just. Instead of replying with my line, I just, I just. I was like thinking in my head I’m like what am I doing? What is this man talking to me? It just felts like I wasn’t runo. It was just not for me. Uh, it was a very strange moment of uh, realization. And there was this big silence of me just staring at another person while in my head I was just realizing that I should just stop acting. Uh, but just creating worlds in my head was something that was more exciting. Um, and that’s why I uh, slowly started uh, transitioning into directing. And the first experiences went so well that I thought that was my calling.

Phil Rickaby: Yeah, yeah. And not just that, but you. You co founded a theare company along with uh, uh, Norma Lewis. Uh, uh, uh, Ocho Rojo. Did I getess that right?

Javier Vialta: Right. Which means Red eight in Spanish. Yeah. Cause we started as eight and we like the color red. So Red eight. And I wanted to call it red eight but somebody said no, let’s do it in Spanish. And um. It has been a blessing. Thaturs verb, both. But the group is the enter to theary group that I had since 2005.

Phil Rickaby: What was um, the impetus, what was, what drove you to, along with Norma to create this company?

Javier Vialta: I think that what we realize is that we wanted to produce our own work. Uh, when you do plays they’re great, but back in the day, even more maybe than now, it starts to feel that you’re doing somebody else’s work, you’re producing something that somebody else has written and you put your own spin on it. But um, back in the day maybe I saw it as in order for me to be a good theare director, I need to start producing something that is more personal. And that’s why we started. And we were very extreme with how we started. Uh, the first show that we did was a uh, eight person all nude poetry show based on the poets of Pablo Neda. They were naked, nude all the time. And the poets described uh, the human body in different uh, stages of life. And um, this could have bombed really really hard. But of course the first thing that we did it uh, was at The Edmonton French in 2005. And it was Saturday night and it was sold out because a Saturday night, everyone wants to, um, see a show at the Edmonton freinge. And I just remember ca. Becausee I was at the booth, I was doing, uh, all the tech stuff. And I remember nobody moved. You could hear pin drops throughout the whole thing. And there was like a huge ovation at the end. And then at that point I was like, okay, I think there’s something for us here.

Phil Rickaby: It sounds like the kind of show that would just thrive at. At France. It’s got. It’s got. It’s a little high concept. It’s gotten naked, which is also a big draw. Um, scandily clad or naked is also a big draw at Fringe. And, uh. But it seems like it sounds like. Like, uh, that was. It was lightning in a bottle. Perfect for. For fringe. Especially the Edmonton fringe.

Javier Vialta: Yeah. Although it’s funny because the show, I think that a lot of people came because of the nudity, but there was a classic really, like, um, museumy kind of approach to it. And I feel like people, when they say nudity, they wanted to see like, more the sexual aspect of it. And this was a more classic take on it, which I think a lot of people who wanted to see the other part were disappointed. But we also got followers being surprised that the nudity was not, uh, uh, put out there just to exploit the performers, but to really showcase the shapes or their bodies in movement.

Phil Rickaby: I just have to say that you get people into your show, however you get people into your show, if they think they’re going to get lewd nudity and they get tasteful, artistic museum nudity. You didn’t lie.

Javier Vialta: Nope.

Phil Rickaby: You got them. You got them there and they got something out of it.

Javier Vialta: That’s right. And that’s exactly what we did. And we continue doing. And then after that is the first show that we took because within with the group, we traveled to nine countries and that’s the first show that we took internationally. We took it to Prague. Ah. And it just kept going like it was like a gift for us because it just kept growing and growing and people really enjoyed it.

Phil Rickaby: Um, uh, now you. You were. You sort of. You said that this was like the first show that you did and it was kind of like out there and on the edge. What kind of. Has that continued for the company or has the performance style or the working style changed from that?

Javier Vialta: So that one was poetry based. But then after that, after a couple of performances, we just took all. Any kind of lines to our text out of them. So that was the evolution for it. But another big part of the evolution was to. Because we decided we could do anything because it was our group, so we might as well. We’re not risk it. We’re not risk at all. So we started to make performances that were for very, very small audiences. Like an audience of one perhaps, or an audience of five. And that’s really what started making, uh, our productions very specific or unique to how we created that. The audiences were tiny. And what the experience is for such a small audiences, uh, uh, against maybe like 100 or 1000 people watching it with you, what the differences.

Phil Rickaby: That’s certainly a really intimate way to perform. There have been a couple of shows in Toronto and like, especially around Fringe, for the history of it, where I remember one show was like, uh, the audience piled into a car and the, uh, basically had three people in the back seat of the car and the scene was in the front seat, that kind of thing. There have been really small, intimate shows. And that is certainly a choice. Very hard to make money from small audiences, but also a great way to like, bring an audience into the most intimate space possible.

Javier Vialta: And I think also like the now you make money, uh, bring money up in the conversation is that at that point we said, you know, even if we were performing for a bigger audience, the amount of money we’re gonna make, it’s not gonna be substantial. So we might as well just take the business, uh, out of our head and just be like, what if we were millionaires and we had everything? What would we create if that wasn’t an issue? So these performs that were very intimate were very elaborate. Like you had like one person and six people performing, uh, around them with big sets and costumes and masks. It’s not like just like this little thing, right? It’s like this very elaborate performances for just one person. And. And what that entails, if you take the business part out of it, because we realized that if we get financial support, perhaps with funding, new artistic expressions can be built out of this. That is not always having that business part in the front of head.

Phil Rickaby: I think that the removal of money from the conversation is always, you know, I think artists are often uncomfortable with the discussion, uh, of money and finances, um, or a lot of times, uh, they can be, um. And then removing that from the equation can be very freeing as long as you can, you know, make it happen.

Javier Vialta: Well, I mean, we had the. That opportunity, right, because we were an ad hoc group. We’re not even a Registered organization. So we really said we can create whatever we wanted. And I think that’s really what it has put us like has kept up together as a group for many years is that we don’t feel those kind of restrictions. You know, we don’t know. We don’t do it for the profit but just to or to express ourselves creatively. And that I rew rightite is very, very freeing because um, the theme about uh, monies, it can be very pressing and um, it represses one part of the creative process, uh, in a way that sometimes you get really discouraged about creating because of that aspect.

Phil Rickaby: If you have to concern yourself with is this show going to make money? You will make different choices of course. Then let’s just make the best show we can.

Javier Vialta: But you start feeling them. I feel like uh, in my uh, experience you start missing the things that weren’t there because of budget cuts. You know, like here is where this was supposed to happen or whatnot because of this. And then I feel like you’re just repressing that creative side. And I know that uh, there’s always uh, people think that there’s always this balance but I feel like there’s a point where you just need to imagine the world without that kind of restriction.

Phil Rickaby: Very difficult to do in our capitalist society. It’s very difficult to put that aside.

Javier Vialta: And yet, you know, um, we only live once.

Phil Rickaby: That is that. That is true. That is true. Um, I’m looking at a list of companies that you’ve worked with and it looks to me like you’ve had the privilege of working with almost every company in Calgary.

Javier Vialta: Huh? In one way or another.

Phil Rickaby: Yeah, in one way or another. And are there, I mean obviously you, as much as you want to have worked with them as a director uh, before, but you haven’t had the opportunity, um, if you could choose one of the local theares to direct in which one would you choose over the others?

Javier Vialta: Well that’s a hard question because it’s the project itself that would drive the decision. You know, it’s not the company itself because the companies are amazing like I’ve always had really like they’ve been so welcoming and so supportive of me. Every single company. I can tell you the one that I would never work with again, I can tell you every single one has so supportive. But I think it’s the projects that because I work with, very uh, hyper stylized approach to uh, directing and it has to be the right project for me to be uh, approach with directing.

Phil Rickaby: Sure, sure. Was it ever a difficult Choice to decide. You know, you were talking about how you wanted to make your own work. How when as a director, you wanted to direct something that you made instead of working with somebody else’s, uh, uh, words and text. Was that ever something that was difficult for you? Because it could be a daunting and a scary thing to make that choice. There are certain. There’s certainly, uh, actors and directors who spend their entire lives working with other, like the work, the scripts that other people make. I think it takes a very certain brave type to break away and do their own work. Was that ever something you were afraid of, or was it just like you had to do it?

Javier Vialta: I think that the most difficult part is not that was afraid of, but the most difficult far for any artist is to find what your own voice is, what’s unique about your work. If I go see a play, would I know that it’s your play that you directed or that anyone directed it? So I guess the most challenging part about that was finding what kind of work was unique to me. And once the work becomes very personal, it’s not really hard at all, because even if people hate it, you adore it. Uh, and it’s almost like a kid. You can say that your kid. Somebody can call your kid ugly or silly, and you will protect that kid because it’s yours. Ah, it says there’s a similarity with that. Ah, they just belong to you, and they’re precious, and it’s hard to move you from that position.

Phil Rickaby: Yeah, it, um. How did you go about finding your voice as a director?

Javier Vialta: That is? Yeah, that, uh. I tried and I failed many times. Well, not that fail. Like, I mean, fail is a huge, huge word. But I did try many approaches that I was like, oh, this isn’t for me. Or like, one thing that I hate is when, uh, started to get condescending with the audience. Like, I start giving people what I think they want, you know, that director, and they’re like, oh, the audience is gonna lose it here. The audience is gonna cry here. I hate thinking that the audience is just one person. Um, I feel like that’s very condescending. So just something that I started reading, uh, and then I read an artist that said it has to speak to you. Because if you think of the greatest artists in the world, they didn’t paint or create for anyone specific. The word is so personal to them. And once it’s personal to you, then that’s really what makes it unique. And after that, then I started clueing in. I need to put things That I would like to see. No, but I think people would like to see, and I’d always done that. And sometimes people don’t like it, but a lot of people do. And it’s how you find your audience as well.

Phil Rickaby: Yeah, no, absolutely. Well, your audience finds you because you’re doing something they want to see, so of course they’re going to come and see it. Um, but you didn’t. You didn’t bend yourself to create what they wanted to see.

Javier Vialta: Yeah, there’s so much pressure, and I see. Still see it in the theare world that people want their. For everyone to like their shows. And I feel like the word like is such a basic word. If you’re gonna do that, you’re gonna be. Do something so basic, uh, and so simple that you’re never gonna grow very much artistically. You’re just. You’re just giving them, like, an introduction, the most accessible kind of art that you can give them. But if you want to really go somewhere, you’re gonna have to be very specific about the way that you create. And that may alienate some and bring some to you, but I feel like that’s the real true path of being unique. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby: No, I think there is a pitfall in trying to make something that everybody is going to like. Um, because that is impossible. Um, if you set up to make something that everyone will like, um, you will fail. Almost everyone. Um, but when it’making something that’s personal.

Javier Vialta: Yes.

Phil Rickaby: Then people resonate with it. They find it in a way that, um, you know, they wouldn’t otherwise. Um. I remember hearing a story years ago where, uh, the play Fiddler on the Roof was done in many places all over the world and everywhere it was. Even though it’s about these Orthodox Jewish characters, um, everybody sees them, would see themselves in it because it’s so specific. They. They could see themselves in the characters in that play. And I think that’s an important lesson to. To just like, be specific about what you want to say and the right audience will find it.

Javier Vialta: Exactly. Yeah. And I mean, Fiddler on the Roof is like a great example of, you know, who produces, uh, a musical that is like, you know, with such big resources about something so specific in history and. And about this very specific group of people. Like, that could have been a huge blmb too, if you think about it. But of course, it’s, uh, such’s written such masterful way that you. Of course, it’s very hard not to connect with something like that.

Phil Rickaby: Absolutely.

Javier Vialta: Yeah, absolutely.

Phil Rickaby: Now you have, um, translated Poetry and other works. Um, now I had my friend, you know, Richard Bone, um, who’s currently the artistic director at the Calgary Shakespeare Company. Um, he’s translated a French play into English. And I know that translating is hard because you can’t, you can’t just be a literal translator because the language is different. The words translate in different ways. There’s an artisticness to translation. Um, what drove you to want to translate and what was that process in becoming a translator of work like?

Javier Vialta: And yeah, as you say the wor translating it s. It’s. I don’t know if it’s correct because you’re really just adapting. You’re adapting uh, pieces to a different language. When I was in high school I hated certain works by uh, a specific literally uh, masters, uh, from uh, the Spanish repertoire, uh, like uh, Lorca and Naruta. You know, they imposed those to us so hard that I thought I hated everyone in the hoo like those. And I don’t know what happened. Being uh, detached from the culture that I came from, uh, made me try to revisit them and I started looking at them from a different perspective. So um, I started to think that it wasnna get you very personal. It was something that really cool to me. So for example the naked poetry was all Nerua translated by me, um, and adapted in a way that actually will speak to me personally as well. I um, would take uh, some snippets from different uh, poems and then put them together to do in performance to make sense in a ah, narrative kind of way. Um, yeah. So that became a passion as well. And I still do it now. I do it mostly the other way around. I try to find ah, pieces in Spanish that I can translate into English. So um, m. Ah and I also like at the beginning I would do pieces in English. I would trans to Spanish to send over there. So um, I do back and forth a little bit.

Phil Rickaby: One of the, I think the issues with theare in Canada is we have so much space between all of our theare hubs. So the theare that’s done in St. John’s Newfoundland is different from the. The that’s done in Montreal is different from the theare that’s done in Toronto. It’s different from theare done in Winnipeg and so on and so on and so on that we have different scenes, different work, things are different. So as somebody who hasn’t been able to see theare in as many places as I would like, I’m always curious about the other places in Canada and their theares. Seenene there um, so I’m curious what you love about the theare scene in Calgary.

Javier Vialta: Well, the theare in Calgary is very unique, uh, to the point that there’s so much potential for growth. It has a lot of resources more than people think. Like that city is culturally very heavy. But people don’t relate Calgary to that. But as uh, somebody who is an artist working in Calgary, I can tell you that the capacity and potential of cultural growth in the city is in men’s. And I think that’s very exciting for any kind of artist to be in that place as uh, opposed to a place like New Europe or Toronto where everyone’s already there. Right. So it’s just mostly to find a place to fit in into those environments where here you can create the environment and you can help shave the cultural identity of the place. So that’s, I feel like that’s the most exciting part of being here as opposed to being somewhere else where it is more established is that in here you can actually give the culture some direction or put like uh, you know, your footprint can be really in the history of how the uh, city’s culture and culture, um, scene is shaped.

Phil Rickaby: That’s really fascinating. Um, because you know, as you say, if you’re in a place like Toronto, there’s already so many established theares, so many established artists, so many independent companies and it’s easy to feel and to feel lost in a sea of theares and companies. Um, but in Calgary, uh, uh, it’s different. And you’ve mentioned how welcoming the companies have been there. Um, and do you feel like that’s something that’s unique to the Calgary scene.

Javier Vialta: In a very, in a very um, good way? I think is even if it’s by accident, you know, that it just happens to be that way. Yes, of course, because it’s a tough business. So you need to be at least in a very supportive, positive environment for you to thrive within the arts in general. Um, yeah. And ah, taking the example of Toronto theare, whatnot, sometimes it feels like uh, that’s where the exciting work comes from. And everyone wants just to say like I wish I was in that place where the exciting works is. But for me it’s something like I switched. I like for me the exciting thing is to build that same idea somewhere else, um, to do the work so it can have its own uniqueness and charm as a place where you see specific stuff. I was directing a show in White Horse um, a couple months ago and I uh, was so surprised. Cause it is tiny, you know, the city is very small and they have ah, two or three theare companies, but the kind of work that they do is so sophisticated. And so I was so surprised. I’m like, you have this really tiny place where people can see things that in Calgary they would never think that the play that I was directing would ever be produce, uh, because it was so out there. And yet we have this really uh, um, for thinking group of people in a very small place. And I feel like that’s so unique to where they are located and the geography and the kind of work that they do that I feel that that’s what we should be more excited of’s not where things are established, but how you can shape things where you are.

Phil Rickaby: There is so much freedom in terms of building.

Javier Vialta: Right.

Phil Rickaby: If there’s uh, if there’s an established theare scene or you know, theare has been in existence for so long, they’re used to doing things in a certain way and it can be hard to shake that up. Whereas if you’re, if the theare scene that you’re in is in a building situation where you’re. There’s a lot more freedom there to do work that’s different from everything else.

Javier Vialta: Yeah. And as I said, like, I think one thing that I see and you were talking about what theare in Canada looks like and it, there’s. It’s like what makes the theare unique in Canada. And there’s. It’s so uh, influenced by uh, a theare from the United States or England and also very conventional pieces. So uh, you start thinking that the theare here is for purer entertainment. You know, like what. And then you go to like Germany or um, London. And then the pieces are, you see pieces that are like plays that are very experimental with like 30 people on stage and people pay £250 to see it. You know, whether they’re here. Nobody ah, is a perception that nobody would actually go see something like that. And I know they have all the artistic, you know, um, the theare legacy over there, but how do you build something like that from here and keep it going?

Phil Rickaby: So I find it so interesting that you were mentioning theare, uh, being um, purely for entertainment. Whereas I have frequently lamented in Toronto that I’m really tired of seeing important plays. I would love to see some plays that didn’t try so hard to be important and maybe were a little bit more on the fun side, had something to say while in the fun, but also weren’t hitting me over the head with a sledgehammer to make a point.

Javier Vialta: Right.

Phil Rickaby: Yeah, it’s interesting. Uh, uh, uh, and again I think it speaks to that distance between all of the places in Canada where we don’t get to see what’s happening in each place.

Javier Vialta: Exactly. And, uh, you mentioned that with Toronto, and I think that’s really fair, you know, is the other end of the balance, you know.

Phil Rickaby: Yeah.

Javier Vialta: And why do you find something that is just uniquely Canadian? Like, what does that look like? What does a uniquely Canadian play look like? Is it really maybe a mixture of the both, you know, and how much it can keep growing and expanding?

Phil Rickaby: I mean, ultimately, that is the question. What is a Canadian play? Yeah, like, what is a play that is Canadian? I mean, re. Written by a Canadian, that’s fine. But like, what is a Canadian play? Right now we could see a play that is, uh, uh, a Newfoundland play in Alberta play, a Bree Sea play in Ontario play, and all of that sort of stuff. Right. Um, but because we are. Everything is so spread out, um, it’s hard to, like, there is no homogenous idea, uh, of what a play is or what a. What theare is, which is kind of exciting. Um, it is exciting.

Javier Vialta: Yeah.

Phil Rickaby: We can’t nail down, like, there are people who’ve been like, ye, yes. Uh, this is the great Canadian, the great American play. We can’t do that here. We’re too spread out. It’s kind of exciting.

Javier Vialta: It is, yeah. And, you know, the future, I mean, I don’t know if that will be within our lifetime, but, uh, what. And that’s what I saw. What I say it’s like what you put into the world right now will shape how things will become in the future in the arts world. That’s why is so important for me to stay here and try to make a bit of a difference.

Phil Rickaby: Um, one of the things you mentioned early in our conversation was that that conversation that you had early in your career where somebody essentially, uh, said that as a Hispanic actor, there’s nothing for you. Um, and that sort of brings us to a conversation about the diversity in Canadian theare, um, and what that looks like. Because, of course, the perception, people. When a lot of people are thinking about the theare, it’s so white. Um, as far as. I don’t know if that’s. If you were talking about theare sort of like opening up to, um, uh, uh, more, uh, people of color and black people, uh, in Alberta. But that was a brief window. What do you see as far as, like, diversity of Canadian theare?

Javier Vialta: Well, as you said, it’s white centric, but I feel like the roots of it are. And the way that we present at Least in the way that is presented in. In structure, um, um. And shape Right now it is based on white practices. Right. I think the idea is how we can accommodate that diversity into this already built structure. Um, that is not a way that. For example, I will hate to think that I can only direct pieces that are related to my background or culture. And I feel like sometimes it’s seen that way that if there’s something that is from that culture that they the candidate right away just because of that. But I want to do like. I want not to be restricted to do a Shakespeare because of my background, uh. Or something like that. Like how can we all live in uh. In the same plane or playing field uh together without uh. Imposing the background and just takingick into consideration that were re artists that we would bring different things without uh. Creating stereotypes or cliches about where we’re coming from. Because I feel like that starts tooming bold. And I see like indigenous pieces as like talking about indigenous experience. And that’s where all they all go on the same with the black experience, which is very important to have. But at what point can we all do anything and it belongs to everyone.

Phil Rickaby: I think there’s so much to be gained for having um.

Javier Vialta: Um.

Phil Rickaby: A Mexican director take the reins of um. Shakespeare’s as you like it for example or something like that. And what would the Mexican directors uh.

Javier Vialta: Sensibility.

Phil Rickaby: Uh bring to that play? And let them just like build on that and just like bring their sensibility and what will. What is their as you like it and howact. I think that’s something that’s so exciting and I think that we should be embracing that a lot more.

Javier Vialta: Well, for uh. A vertical theare that when I was approached to pieces was the strange case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. And uh. That’s the most, you know, British thing you can. I always thought that, you know, it was like ratatouille. We like. They go. Go into the kitchen and be like where. Where is the Mexican? Or direct in this. Uh. That uh. It was just so meaningful to me that I was given a peacece that was not uh. Necessarily a cultural match. That it was completely uh. Something different from where I fromm. And that I can also give my ven as an artist. Not necessarily as the stereotype that you may see me as. So that was a really meaningful opportunity that I can still create this unique uh. Piece around uh. Something that is so uh. Authentic to aocation that I have nothing to do with. And it’s not part of my background because that mixture really, really interesting, that fusion. Uh, and it gives you the possibility to imagine new worlds. You know, like you say weame a delorist doing Frankenstein next or whatnot. Like why wouldn’t you give that to a comp competitor director? And why do you give this to this M man who’ uh opposite not from around there at all. Uh, what does he bring that British direction couldn’t?

Phil Rickaby: I mean it’s so interesting because you know, he’s told British ghost stories on film. Like he’s burst into a place where he can tell Spanish stories and also English stories.

Javier Vialta: Mhm.

Phil Rickaby: And I think that uh, that kind of uh, of freedom is something that can only benefit the storyteller.

Javier Vialta: Yeah. And the people who are experiencing these can have a new window to uh, understand the stories from a very different perspective. And I think that really enriches your culture. I think, I think a lot of people don’t believe that, but I think that it’s a really, it’s a really nice way to look at it.

Phil Rickaby: I think that, that uh, people have been uh. I think that diversity is a strength and I think that it will always be a strength and that it’s the thing that makes uh, everyone stronger by like just bringing everybody up, uh, rather than like holding a few people down. There’s so much more creativity that can happen with that.

Javier Vialta: Yeah, absolutely. And at the same time you need to uh, identify what is stronger. points of diverse artists are Sometimes I see in theatre a lot that people uh, are forcing these diversity points just to having someoney included in certain projects. But uh, sometimes the people who are from the diverse backgrounds fail, um, they really didn’t belong there to begin with. So when we talk about diversity, we need to make sure that first we identify what the strong point of the diverse group that we try to incorporate are in order for them to thrive in these uh, environments. Otherwise if you just put them as a number, they’re just never going to fit in.

Phil Rickaby: No, but I think that there’s also. It is incumbent on the production to make sure that people who are coming in are given what they need to succeed.

Javier Vialta: Exactly. I agree.

Phil Rickaby: Right. Can’t just, you can’t just bring somebody in and slap them into.

Javier Vialta: But they happen. Ye.

Phil Rickaby: I’m sure it happens all the time. Ah, that’s the completely wrong way to work.

Javier Vialta: It is. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby: We have to be able to bring people in, find out what they need to succeed and give it to them. Otherwise we bring them in, it doesn’t work out. Oh, well. I guess we won’t be doing that again because that just didn’t work. And it’s really the theatre’s fault for not really working with the artist.

Javier Vialta: Yeah. It is really important for the theatre to be very educated as to if you have a diversity program that you understand that everyone has different strengths, skills and talent. Um, and just to say like out of this cast we’re going to have to have this amount of people. It’s not the right approach. You have to think of the people before you think about the number.

Phil Rickaby: No, absolutely, absolutely. I think that thinking about a number again, it’s like do I, am I just filling in uh, a spot for. Just to have to fill my diversity quota?

Javier Vialta: Yeah. And it’s probably the wrong approach.

Phil Rickaby: It is because what we should be able to do is to remove the idea of numbers and hire literally the right, like the right performer for the role regardless. Instead of thinking about oh, I have to have to put a black person in this role because otherwise we won’t get our diversity points or whatever it is. Um, just. But again if that’s a policy and you have to follow it, you have to set that person up to succeed. And if they’re tokenized, if they’re the one person of color in that production, you’re already setting them up to fail.

Javier Vialta: Totally. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby: So we generally have to do better with all of that. I think rehearsal halls are best when we discuss what we need and we are open to giving each person in the rehearsal process what they need to succeed.

Javier Vialta: Yeah. And you. And also to identify what they bring as well. That’s exactly important. Ye.

Phil Rickaby: Yeah, for sure. Um, Javier, as we are sort of like heading towards the end of our conversation, I’m curious uh, what you’re working on now. Is there a project that you’ve got going on now that you can tell us about?

Javier Vialta: I just finished one last week and it was ah, a really cool project. It was a two uh, hander version of Mary Stewart. Uh, and it was written by an Italian playwright, Theini. Um, and it was really, really cool experience to work with um, two really um, important talented performers in Calgary and a very nice group of uh, ah, designers that we created this modernized uh, version of it. So that’s what just happened. And next I’m actually now that we’re talking about Richard and the Shakespeare Company, I’m doing a show with them uh, next season which is a queer version of Romeo and Juliet.

Phil Rickaby: Oh, fabulous.

Javier Vialta: Mhm. And that is coming up next season and I’M really excited about that.

Phil Rickaby: That is super exciting. That is super exciting. Well, congratulations on that. Than, uh, Javier, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate you giving me some of your time m today, and, uh, I look forward to hearing more from you in the future.

Javier Vialta: Thank you. Love your shirt.

Phil Rickaby: Thank you.