This week on Stageworthy, host Phil Rickaby welcomes Ethan Persyko, a multi-talented actor, playwright, and theatre creator. Ethan shares their journey in the theatre world, their creative process, and the inspiration behind their latest projects. They also discuss their experience working across different genres and the importance of storytelling that reflects diverse perspectives.
This episode explores:

Ethan’s journey into theatre and their early inspirations.
Their approach to playwriting and character development.
Their work on recent projects and upcoming shows.
The importance of community and collaboration in theatre.
Navigating the challenges of independent theatre production.

Guest:
🎭 Ethan Persyko
Ethan Persyko, Artistic Director and Founder of Theatre Ya Knowww (TYK), is a multidisciplinary performance artist creating space for bold, experimental, and care-centered storytelling. Based in Vaughan, TYK blends theatre, film, and movement in collaborative projects that prioritize joy, respect, and collective growth. From fast-paced creative festivals to intimate performance labs, TYK empowers emerging artists to take risks, build community, and reimagine how stories are made and shared.

Connect with Ethan:
📸 Instagram: @breathethan_joshuaa | @theatre_ya_knowww

Support Stageworthy
If you love the show, consider supporting on Patreon: patreon.com/stageworthy

Transcript

Transcript is auto generated and may contain minor errors.

Phil Rickaby

Phil Rickaby: Hi there, I’m Phil Rickaby, the host and producer of this podcast. You’re listening to Stageworthy, Canada’s Theatre podcast. If you’re new here and you’re watching on YouTube, make sure to uh, click on the subscribe button, like the video and hit the little bell so you get notified every time a new episode comes out. That is a great way to make sure that you never miss an episode whenever it drops. If you’re listening to the audio version, make sure that you’re following whether you’re, whether that’s subscribing or following, depending on the application that you are using. Just go to the podcast and your favourite podcast app. Um, click on the follow button or the subscribe button and that way every time a new episode comes out, it will be downloaded directly to your device. I want to talk about, about the Patreon. I cannot do this without the patrons who are backing me on Patreon. The patrons of this podcast get early access to podcasts, will be discussing upcoming topics, and there will be more as the podcast grows. So if you enjoy this podcast and you want to be a patron and you want to help me make this show, go to patreon.com/stageworthy and become a patron. It’s only $7 Canadian a month and I would love to have you there. And with your help we can grow this podcast, make it bigger, make it better, and uh, help to keep it going. My guest this week is Ethan Persyko who is the artistic director of Found and who is the artistic director and founder of Theatre Ya know. Theatre, you know is a multidisciplinary performance artist creation space for bold, experimental and care centred storytelling based in Vaughn, Ontario. We have a lot to talk about in this episode. We’re going to talk about why Ethan started theatre. You know, we’re going to talk about the importance of local theatre. We’re going to be talking about so many things. So this is my conversation with Ethan Persyko of, uh, Theatre Ya know.

Ethan, thank you so much for joining me. Um, I wanted to just start, um, by just like jumping into, uh, Theatre Ya Know, like, tell me about your company.

Ethan Persyko: Yeah, well, Theatre Ya Know that’s kind of exactly the little catchphrase that I like to put after everyone’s like, oh, what’s your company? And it’s like, in the name theatre, you know? Um, really wrestle with what. Theatre is in our current time, like as you can see, I’m a little bit pausing because just kind of reflecting on. All the different avenues and, and, and directions where we receive theatre from. It’s like, what’s the theatre that like I wanna create? And what’s the theatre that my community wants to create? Um, specifically, this theatre is located in, uh, Vaughn, uh, specifically in Thornhill, Ontario. I’m not providing my address.

Ha ha ha. Bad joke. I don’t know. but, um, the. Purpose of it is, it’s not that I don’t wanna like compete with Toronto, it’s more I want to rev, want to revitalize the Von Arts ecology, which is inexistent if I’m being just like I technically am like the second theatre-y kind of collective identity. like neighborhood in Thornhill, Ontario, and really Vaughn like, there just isn’t theatres. So I go back to the Theatre Ya Know because it’s almost, well, no, we don’t know because at least in Vaughn, it’s kind of in existence.

Phil Rickaby: I mean, this is the, this is the thing and, and I think that it’s, it’s, it is important to, uh, have local theatre. Right? To have theatre that speaks to the low where you are. Right. And I think because of, of Vs proximity to Toronto, it could be. Very easy for somebody to say, well, there’s theatre in Toronto.

We don’t need any here. Um, but the theatre in Toronto is for, is is like made in Toronto, is it? For people in Toronto? Yes, kind of, but also like, what do the people who live in Thornhill, what do the people in Vaughn want from their theatre?

Ethan Persyko: Yeah.

Phil Rickaby: Um, as far as, as far as that goes, like what do the people in Vaughn want in their theatre?

Ethan Persyko: I, I know, and I don’t because I’m doing a lot of. Engagement, like community engagement, not even audience engagement, like community engagement to see where things even are. Um, I’m really fortunate to be partnering with my like local slash childhood library two minutes away from my house, which was amazing because it went like a day in a day.

I went from doing this all in my garage to like, wow, a library, like kind of banding forces and all it really was, was. We were doing a 40 hour play film fest where plays would turn into films. We were in that space ’cause we need some shelter and the librarians were like, clock you. We see you. We appreciate you and we appreciate what you’re doing. Um, and to answer your question, I really think it’s a lot of like my engagement with the youth and the librarians at that library and a lot that I’m receiving is. One, the need for space, which is something that even Toronto Theatre does wrestle with. Just the need for space. And then two, it is okay to kind of push the norms outside of more conventional Theatre Ya Know that you would see maybe in more like Ish, or I was at my first opera show yesterday.

You know, you, you won’t see that necessarily in Thornhill or Vaughn. And I don’t think the. Thornhill v community necessarily wants it. I think it’s really interested in educational opportunities. I think it’s really interested in immersive opportunities. So for example, we have a stage reading series coming up at the end of now this month.

’cause we’re in May right now. Um, and um, it’s immersive in a library ’cause we’re working with new plays. So what better way to present these new plays than the books and what have you. So, um, yeah, I think. It’s, I don’t wanna like cop out to like question. I think it’s just really like one that like immersion education, but I think it’s even just exploring and engaging with what even theatre is in a community that doesn’t have a robust amount of it.

Phil Rickaby: I mean, we are always in this industry trying to find a balance between, um, what people want, what they need, what we want to give to them. Um, and I. You know, trying to find like, what, what, what, first off, what will get bums in seats? Because let’s face it, if you can’t get bums in seats, what is the point? Um, but also what, like what are they interested in?

What do they want? And that’s, I think the, the fundamental question that so many Canadian theatres are struggling with. Or if they’re not, they should be.

Ethan Persyko: Yeah. Or maybe they’re not letting you know, you kind of have to like, just dig just a little bit, like a, like a graceful dig to

Phil Rickaby: Yeah, but I mean, it’s, you know, the audience doesn’t always tell you exactly what they want. Right. You know, I mean, the way that they’ll tell you what they want is what they buy tickets to.

Ethan Persyko: Correct, And then If they,

end up actually showing up

Phil Rickaby: yes.

Ethan Persyko: Even just the getting there too,

Phil Rickaby: I mean, that’s, it’s huge, right? And, and you know, if you think about it, um. You are speaking to and presenting theatre for people in Vaughn. If they’re going to go to a show at, say a Mirvish theatre or something, then they have to figure out all of the logistics of that, of, of, do they, do they live in Toronto?

Are they going with their family? How is their family getting Vaughn to Toronto? Um, where are they gonna have dinner? How are they getting home after the show? How late is this night going to be? Um, these are all questions. If they’re in V and if the show’s in Vaughn, that makes a little more sense for them.

Ethan Persyko: Yep. And I think that’s something that we are exploring. Um, we just got our TAPA membership, which is really, really lovely.

Phil Rickaby: Nice.

Ethan Persyko: and with that Toronto Alliance of the Performing Arts, that’s that acronym, uh, tapa, uh, membership, um, we’re really finding that line of like, can we like scoot over to like. York University territory as like a nice healthy medium between Toronto and Vaughn, or like kind of, you know, find that like middle ground. Because we do have a lot of artists that are coming into Vaughn to offering that. Like, not only like educational, but like very much like. are doing plays.

We are doing adaptations of Uncle Vanya by Checkov, for example. Like we are doing these well-known plays, but we’re just navigating of like. How do we want to present these? And I think I’ve created like a general artistic season, that’s months and then months away, then months away for the next. I am using all that time to not only develop a directorial vision, but a communal directorial vision.

And how can my directorial vision align with what I’m seeing in Vaughn more broadly?

Phil Rickaby: Absolutely. And I think, I think that that, you know, if you’re doing classic theatre with which Chekhov is, um, the way that you present it to people. Really does a lot for like, how they are going to want to come to it. You know, I think about, I think it, it’s in London, there’s this production of Romeo and Juliet where, which everybody’s going crazy for or was, I dunno if it’s still running, but like, people going crazy.

Yeah. There are people going crazy for this show and, and, and, and, uh, it’s Shakespeare and so like. How do you present it in such a way that both serves the story but is also super interesting and, and that that is not alienating to your audience. Like if you do the show in pumpkin pants and roughs, then people are often a little distant from it.

But if you find a way to bring it down to them and like to, not to bring it down, but like to like bring it to them as a, as if it’s a contemporary.

Ethan Persyko: And to even have a theme of like Uncle Vanya, I won’t get too sociopolitical, but like, let’s just say we’re not setting it in Russia.

We’re setting it somewhere else. Um, and we’re not setting it in a home. I. We’re setting it somewhere else and we’re adapting it. So at Theatre Ya Know we’re fully committed to new works and adaptations, um, and adaptations of potential classics.

Um, one of the plays that we’re doing, emperor of the New Moon by Aphra Behn, which not many people are aware of that. Play. Um, I am retitling it, drag delusion, for example. And we are doing it, um, in the month of October and at the end of October, which is Halloween season. So, you know, the drag metaphorically and figuratively and literally is all coming out. Uh oh, I see what I did there. And, um. Like we’re celebrating this like pre Halloween celebration with like, I don’t know. I feel like as a individual myself, Halloween was a time where, oh, I could play dress up to the world as opposed to, oh yeah, let me just what’s over there in, let’s just say a maternal parental fingers closet. Look at it and be like, ah, can’t play. Dress up with that. But now you can ’cause

it’s theatre.

Phil Rickaby: I just, I wanna back away from, from Theatre Ya Know for a bit and talk a little bit more about you and, and, and your, your theatre journey. What, what, how did you become interested in theatre? I.

Ethan Persyko: When people ask you this question, I give them a very, let’s just say, different answer than maybe what they’re used to. Um, to me, I look at theatre as like a safe haven slash slash security, and like. It did initially come out of a very pressing need of wanting to feel understood, and I remember being in grade eight and then transitioning to grade nine, going to a brand new school. And I remember walking into the drama room and just my feet would like tinker Bell sparkle and just rise to the top. And, um. I appreciated all the subjects. I actually did very well in a lot of subjects, but it wasn’t that like I couldn’t go be a molecular biologist or a lawyer or something.

There was something about being on stage in theatre and maybe I wasn’t the best actor in whatever, that means. And just felt seen, I felt heard. Not only by others, but within myself. And I felt like my flamboyancy and my way of creative expression, um, was matched with, uh, the theatre that we were, uh, doing at my little Old Buck High School, where I make the joke that our prop swords were bent.

So that shows the budget for our productions. That’s the, the joke I always give. And then I’ll just wrap the. heading into university, which then was a five year journey of, I remember going to my interview with, let’s just say, um, Prolifics in the Canadian theatre ecology and being like, ah, scared in my boots.

And, then kind of like like kind of just very nonchalant being like, yeah, like in high school we did commedia dell’arte, and they were like. commedia dell’arte. We didn’t do that. We don’t do that until like third year of this university. I’m like, whoa. Well, my high school drama teacher who was Scottish and came from Scotland and had all this background was very miracle experience to have Ms.

Clark, uh, in engage, uh, as the, uh, drama teacher. And the, the, the spiritual gag or joke is no matter if I was in a different, uh, doing different, uh, subjects or had a different schedule each year, every single year, Ms. Clark was my drama teacher for four years straight. Even though there were two others, I always got Ms.

Clark. And I think having that like steady mentor in my life, it really did something.

Phil Rickaby: . I think it is common and historically, um, the theatre has been a, a, a place of home for queer people. It is a place where, um, the, the, the people who people could go and.

Everybody just is accepting of everybody, and it’s a home for people. Um, so, you know, theatre is, is that for everyone? I guess in, in, in almost every era of its, of its existence.

Ethan Persyko: I agree completely.

Phil Rickaby: You, you, you, you, you mentioned, you know, sort of like going to, to high school for, and, and, and wanted to get into this, but what was your first exposure to theatre?

What made you want to do it?

Ethan Persyko: I gotta go back into the brain archives. Um, a. think something that is kind of concurrent to me also being an educator and a theatre practitioner is being a camper and a camp counselor in, so with Vaughn, there were Vaughn summer camps, and so I think I. When you asked me that question, that’s where the archive goes. I just remember summer camp was just two minutes away. parents would just plop me on the grass because we all, oh my God, we all congregated on the grass and did some like, you know, very mindful exercises and warmed up and they went inside to the building and. I just kinda liked how flowy and flexible and homey it was because it was so, just come as you are and, uh, you know, the, the irony is we will have to cast you in one of our productions in some way because your parents are paying money for you to go to this camp.

So by fours you will be casted. And what’s really funny is I remember I actually got some, like lead role. I was the Nick Jonas. In Camp Rock and I did like the cheese song and I was like, yes, to the cheese and the pizza. And then I was, I think I forget, to be honest, I think I was the prince in Ella Enchanted.

I’m like, okay, That’s like. Has a romantic interest and da da that’s interesting to explore. Um, and then what’s funny is that when I went to another camp, oh, I was given the narrator, uh, for Into the Woods and I lost it at home because I was so upset because I’m like, I want a character. I don’t just want to read stage directions or just be on the.

Corner, which they ended up putting me, I want to be involved and into the woods. So, um, I think that’s why I’ve always peripherally been around musical theatre ever since then. But, um, it goes back to those days where literally feeling included. Just by nature, it’s this like catch 22, where by nature, like I don’t wanna keep bringing up theatre, you know?

But like by force and by nature, inclusivity is very much a part of our mandate too. So you do get plopped into our little community, and by nature you should feel included.

Phil Rickaby: Um, let, let’s, let’s talk about. About that a a little bit for, for you and for Theatre Ya Know um, what, what does inclusivity mean to you?

Ethan Persyko: It’s incredibly nuanced. Phil, I’m sure you’re aware of this. It’s incredibly nuanced and I think what’s really important, and I’m sure that folks have expressed this already, is that like even if you are an equity director or an anti-discrimination or anti-oppression. Officer, officer, um, we have to reconcile with the fact that we, like, are not like therapists, even though we might have mental health first aid training, which I do, but we are like, it’s this weird thing with arts.

It’s a different kind of HR inclusive equity, and, and I, and I feel like more and more. I don’t know where the shift is happening in the Toronto theatre landscape, but it’s just really important to recognize that like while we obviously are reconciling with different perspectives and voices and identities and making sure all of them fit in in a really collaborative way, I just find something that I, that gives me a bit of grace is that I didn’t go to school necessarily to know everything about like. Like, um, how to do human resource to the nth degree in the arts. Like they don’t teach that at theatre school. I was very fortunate in my university degree, uh, when the pandemic hit, I actually, uh, recoiled from being a drama specialist and became a drama and law double major with a minor in equity studies.

And so I do have that background in EDI work, but I’ll. Wrap up in the fear of ranting always. And just, I remember, um, you know, I was very honored to be part of the director’s lab North a couple years ago, which is a, uh, program that’s housed in Tarragon theatre and or was, uh, not, uh, a. It’s changed a little bit. Um, and Kimberly Rampersad, I believe that’s how you, who is, uh, on the artistic staff of the Shaw Festival came in to speak and she was like, I don’t like this EDI, what is going on here? And that really, I. I’m paraphrasing, but what she meant and what I reconcile with is if someone is queer or someone is of a marginalized or, uh, equity deserving race, for example, and due to the kind of EDI push in theatre, um, to some extent you’re getting this like. Individuals who represent the identities having to like relearn and in like fear of even like retraumatizing or re-explaining things to them that might be sensitive material like. For someone like who’s my, like as a queer person myself, I don’t need to be given EDI training necessarily on homophobia and transphobia because those are things that are lived experiences and I’m not saying that I fully agree or disagree with.

I. Any sort of perspective. I think as an artistic director and as an artist, I’ve always learned to just never be so polarized in one perspective, um, to always have a bit of nuance. Um, but for me, I do agree with what, um, Kimberly, like best of friends Kimberly was saying, uh, in the sense of, I feel like. a tough balance of making sure that yes, we do have structures and resources for support to make sure folks who might not be aware of certain cultural sensitivities get that understanding. But I also think that it should be, it should be something that the theatre world can recognize of like. Many individuals due to their lived experiences have kind of stepped up and been those EDI directors and EDI people to like advocate and be like, Hey, something is wrong here.

And that’s exactly why I work as an intimacy coordinator for that exact reason. Someone who is like, Hey, there’s not enough. Conversations are on intimacy work in theatre and film, and what’s great is now just due to the nature of where theatre is going, I am seeing a lot more intimacy directors and coordinators. Very long tangent. That’s exactly, I think what inclusivity and equity should be. It’s like a larger conversation, but all it is is just fielding out things. Just making sure that you’re meeting people at their levels and capacities.

Phil Rickaby: Do you think that, um, D-E-I-E-D-I, whatever we want to call it, can be an ethos for the rehearsal hall without having to. Stated and just creating a space that embodies diversity, equity, inclusion. And by that I mean, and I’ve talked about this before on this podcast about, you know. Making the rehearsal hall a place where we understand we’re creating this show, but what do you need in a rehearsal process?

What do you need? Um, if you are, if someone is neurodivergent, if we’re doing a rough scene, do we need to build into our day? A nap period or a, a break for them so that they can come back and be at their best for the rest of the rehearsal. Like, how do we build our rehearsal hall so that everybody benefits from their time there and nobody leaves, uh, uh, feeling like, oh, I, if only I had had this, I, I, I would’ve had, I would’ve been better in this show, or I would’ve had a better experience.

Ethan Persyko: Yep. Yep. This is something even an hour ago I was wrestling with in relationship to Theatre Ya Know like. It sucks to say this blanket statement, but I wanna put on the record like I’m non expert on X, Y, Z for exactly what I just mentioned, but dare to try. Or try to try. And what is important to me is I hate to, but also love to make this comparison. Like if you’re making like a smoothie and you want to have. blueberries and the strawberries and the raspberries and the milk and the peanut butter. Well then, if that is what you need to make the recipe, don’t forget the, the all that you need in order to make the final product. And that’s a larger comparison to into, if, let’s say someone is neurodivergent, but you do want to cast them in your show. Understanding that neurodiversity is not a monolith, understanding that if you have, let’s say, strawberries in your smoothie, don’t forget that they do come with the little tiny little things and the, the, the, the grass leaves that you have to, you know, or some people, uh, eat them. I actually had an incredible, uh, um.

Session with indigenous, uh, in, uh, uh, theatre practitioner that many might know Jill Carter, who’s also a professor at the University of Toronto, where, um, she was mentioning how folks and, uh, um. I am forgetting the exact community, but she was saying a relationship to her indigenous worldview teachings that you eat the like, uh, the bitter with the sweets as well. Um, that’s why when I see people cutting strawberries going, no, don’t, uh, but, um. You know, don’t forget those things. And that’s, that’s, I, I think it like in the rehearsal room, do you chop off the grass parts of the strawberry? Do you keep that and maybe you don’t know that you needed those things to experience the bitter and the sweet and you didn’t know. I think. I was expressing this to one of our playwrights and residents, and I wrestle with this, uh, phrase of ignorance is bliss. I don’t, I don’t, they said, Ethan, you’re too generous. Ignorance is bliss. Well, I’m like, I don’t know if ignorance is necessarily bliss. I think, uh, I mentioned to them, you could be ignorant to unnecessary stress that you don’t need your life.

Sure, I’ll be ignorant to that. But in a rehearsal room, don’t be ignorant to. Things that you do or things that you might need. And this is the really, really, really tricky part with rehearsal rooms and theatre. It’s the might need and the should need and the could need that. I feel like you can’t expect many individuals to like, Hey, I know exactly what I need in this process.

’cause theatre is just one big monolith and we’re doing the exact same show. We’re doing Shakespeare the exact same way every single time. So I’m just a robot that needs. change as you tour from one place to another. Maybe the location, the space changes. Maybe an accessible washroom in one venue becomes not accessible in another.

So it’s just as you move from pre-production to rehearsal show to another venue, just making sure that you don’t even forget those little tiny. Like stem or whatnot, or on the strawberry, just make sure that your smoothie is like the blueberry banana smoothie and it’s not turning into a strawberry banana smoothie if you don’t want it to, but if you want it to turn into a strawberry smoothie, I like a good strawberry banana smoothie.

Phil Rickaby: Making sure that everybody has what they need, even if they don’t know what they need. Right? We have to be flexible. We can’t be like, oh, on day one you said you need this and now you’re asking for this. Now you’re being unreasonable. That’s not how anything works. We are all, each day we come in and we try to leave our day behind us like, what happened last night?

What happened on the way there? Even yesterday’s rehearsal, if it was bad, we, we, we, or if it was rough, we, we try to leave that behind us, but. We come in with, with all of that stuff. What I need today is not what I needed yesterday, and that’s just, that’s just a fact. Um, one of the things you were saying about, about not being an expert and I.

We, we have, we need a, we have a fine, there’s a fine line to be walked about expertise in the theatre. Um, you can have a director who is too much the expert and they know too much and they’re not willing to, um, to do anything. I, my, my friend, uh, Richard Bowen I worked with many years ago, uh, he’s currently the artistic director at uh.

Uh, uh, Calgary, Shakespeare, um, Calgary, Shakespeare company. And he, it used to frustrate me all the time when we’d get into a rehearsal. ’cause he would say, he’d say, what do you think of this? And he’d say, I don’t know. Let’s figure it out. And I’d be like, but you’re the director you are supposed to know.

And now I really appreciate that. His response was always. I don’t know. Let’s figure it out because that’s an opportunity for us to work together and find the truth rather than my me being kind of lazy and going, tell me what I want to know.

Ethan Persyko: I, you’re like reading my mind tell about these are, these are conversations I am reconciling with almost every day. I think the one. Clear topic that comes to my mind is Devise theatre, if I may bring that up. I think devised theatre is something that, at least in my community, is getting way more attention.

It’s like, I love devise theatre. Why do we hold up blah, blah, blah to a pedestal? Let’s do more device theatre. And when you are like, I don’t know, let’s figure it together. Um. see that a lot in device theatre, as I learned the other day, dt uh, DT work. Um, yeah, it’s, it’s something that, I won’t say how or how I came into device theatre, but let’s just say when I first came into Device theatre, I was like, you, I was like. Uh, okay. But like, we only have three weeks and like, we can’t just like, have nothing. And it’s like, ah. And then the stress is, and then it’s like, yes, we collaborated on an idea, but did we want all that stress or did we, did w was the stress added to the smoothie recipe that we now are all agreeing with?

So. What I’ve noticed as a director, you know, I am an artistic director, but I am directing many of the plays as well. Um, as it stands, all of them, maybe don’t put that on the record, but you can also put that easily on the record. Um, it’s just because as a director, my relationship to device theatre is, let’s. Things that are necessary to maybe talk about and collaborate on and explore, but let’s not. Uncertainty where actors are confused. I think something to really address is the kind of actor’s mind. We know we go from Stanislavski or like method acting or whatever to like a another side of that spectrum too.

And something that I’ve noticed in theatre and film where I do work in film as well, is sometimes I notice directors taking advantage of actors. Openness and, and a, and ability to dream up what they dream up. But taking advantage of the fact that like if I just sit back and, and, and do nothing and know that I’m. Know that I’m not doing anything, and as a result, I literally know as the director of my brain, I don’t have a vision and I’m just pretending like I have a vision. I notice that the actors, because they don’t want to come off as, duh, I get fired, or this, they fill in the gaps. For the directors and the producers.

And that is something where, um, I think device theatre is different. It doesn’t maybe reflect that, but that is the device theatre or the directing style that I like, uh, as a device theatre practitioner where like, not leaving the world I. Up to the actors. I’m giving them the tools where they can start building it. You gotta, sorry to bring it up the blender and, and the ingredients and the fruit in order to make the smoothie. I can certainly ask, Hey, um, Phil, I forgot the orange. Can you just quickly go to the grocery store and grab me like an orange? But I’m not gonna be like, so here’s like a hundred dollars.

You’re not only are you gonna buy it for me, ha, guess what? You’re gonna pay for it and I’m not gonna like the, and then you’re gonna come back and, oh, and guess what? You’re gonna actually make the smoothie on my behalf. That’s where the kind of theatre kind of stuff where I’m like, out.

Phil Rickaby: There are, I mean, process is really important in device theatre and, and, and it’s not gonna work for. It’s not gonna work for every type of show. Um, years ago I was, uh, I’m one of, uh, I was with uh, uh, uh, a theatre company called Keystone theatre. We created plays in the style of silent film, and part of our ethos was to create these, these plays.

In the way that, uh, chaplain or Buster Keaton or any of those other artists did, which was have an idea and then work it out in rehearsal. Like, here’s where we’re starting, here’s where we’re going. And a couple of times we didn’t know where we were going, but we all figured it out. But without the director that we had, the directors that we had, they were the ones who were like guiding us to build the scene.

Oh, if you do this, that actually gets us to here. ’cause we were. Too busy being in this moment, and they were helping us to like get to the next moment that creates the next scene and that sort of thing. And we couldn’t have created those shows without the directors that we had. I.

Ethan Persyko: I think you’re bringing up a really incredible conversation that I’ve on where it’s like we’re all trying to get to the other side of the bridge. We’re all trying to make theatre, like we’re all, you know, Hey, we did the marathon. Like, hey, like, and everyone hugs you or gives you a high five.

Like, yeah, like we’re all trying to finish that marathon. It’s just how are you running that race and, and that’s different for everyone. That’s not a problem. Something that I really. reconciled and also advocate for is finding your clan community group and just moving with that group. I remember in high school we had SAP class, sociology, anthropology, and psychology smashed into one and my SAP teacher was like, by nature. You’re not gonna like fully get along like besties with like everyone on this planet also, ’cause you’re not gonna see. And that kind of like scares me. I don’t know about you, but like you’re not gonna see many individuals on the other side of the world or what have you. So the more that we give ourselves, it’s just called grace and and humility, the more that we give ourselves a little bit of grace and humility find. Those directions and work as a team. Um, regardless of how you’re finishing that marathon, all theatre does require, uh, it’s a team sport. Sure, you can do solo shows and what have you, but there is more than one person involved in any theatre. So maybe you can, someone can prove me wrong, but I think it’s not a one person sport theatre.

Phil Rickaby: Uh, by its nature, theatre isn’t a one person sport because you need an audience. Even if, even if one person is creating the show, directing themselves, which is not always a great idea, but directing themselves, designing, doing the sound design, doing the lighting design, all of that stuff, in the end, they still need an audience.

Ethan Persyko: Yep. Yep. And, um, very briefly, you know, working with like a lot of, um, new playwrights and playwrights that are working on new plays. I, I’m not really a player. I don’t identify as a playwright. Uh, something that I realize with playwrights is it can be be, can be an incredibly isolating or lonely, uh, process to write a play For some folks at least emerging artists that I’ve been in conversation with, I didn’t realize just how. Writer’s block, like I have writer’s block, but I, it’s interesting, like, will they take that torch to actually go write the play and go do it? And full on, like they’re navigating so much. I, uh, I won’t spoil it fully, but let’s just say I am a playwright co-write a, a show for us and, um. I was like, ’cause we were, we were on Zoom and I was like, is it weird for me to like be on Zoom and, and bother your kind of one person, like, how you want to do it and I can turn my camera off or like, whatever you need.

And, and he was like, no, no, no. Uh, I actually like really bouncing ideas off of you. Let’s do it together. Um, maybe you’ll go buy a cup of coffee for an hour, come back and whatever, and I’ll have something to present to you. Um, and then even if we do the whole thing on Zoom together. The playwright was expressing.

What I like to do is we’ll end the zoom call and I as the play will just brush up and do a nice little top down and see it and then send you that. So it’s, it’s nice to know that, um, play rating doesn’t have to be, I. So isolating and I, and I’ve learned a lot that playwrights who are taking their craft to some serious extent, they like to like, show their play to someone, have a read and offer feedback, another person.

But, uh, when you have like 24 hour challenges, or even the fringe I think does like a bit of a challenge like that, it, it does feel, I think a little isolating. And that doesn’t have to have a negative connotation. I’ve just noticed that it can cause some unnecessary stress for artists.

Phil Rickaby: It is 100% as as a playwright. It is, it is isolating. And that’s why when you get to a certain point, like you finish the first draft and it’s like, all right, I need people to read this. I need, we need to get people to read this ’cause I need. Need, I need the connection with other people. I need to hear it out loud.

I need I, I need the, I need actors to embody this play so that I can then hear, oh, oh no, this is a moment that I missed, or this, like, these kinds of little, little tweaks that you can make. You can only get when you’ve. Read it out loud or heard it read out loud. Um, the collaboration doesn’t even really happen until like the draft is done and then you get to edit it.

You know, like dramaturgy is a, is is a very important skill. And also we, I. It’s funny because we have, there’s, there’s, I dunno if it’s Canadian dramaturgy and then there’s British dramaturgy. ’cause the British dramaturgy is just like, here are all the historical facts that you need to know to, uh, to do this play.

And Canadian dramaturgy is, let’s beat this play into a shape.

I have no idea. I don’t know. I don’t even, I don’t know what Amer, I mean, maybe American dramaturgy is closer to what we’re, what we do in Canada. I, I have no experience with American dramaturgy.

Ethan Persyko: dramaturg days as a dramaturg, we’re doing remote dramaturgical consultation for, uh, American theatre companies actually.

Phil Rickaby: Hmm.

Ethan Persyko: was like a dramaturg for a company in Maryland remotely. And I. I don’t find it as, uh, that incredibly different as a Canadian dramaturgy in the sense that, ah, we do have a dramaturg in the room.

Ah, we like, like, oh, dramaturgs are so important. I’m really glad that you just put that on the, the record of you mentioned dramaturgy in this podcast. Love

Phil Rickaby: I think, I mean, for me, I think it’s, it’s, it, it’s the most valuable to the playwright. Um, in the, as you’re like going through the, the, uh, the, the writing, the workshopping, the revision, like without a dramaturg, how do you, how do you, like, you need that. It, it’s so helpful to have that, that outside eye. They could just sort of say, there’s something missing here.

I can’t tell you what it is. But there’s something missing and it, it, it, it’s this moment and you could talk it out with them, and then the playwright can go and can go and write it. Um, and then in rehearsal you can have somebody who’s, who’s like, oh, here we have a moment that we missed. And the playwright, they can go back to the playwright and this sort of thing.

But it’s, it’s, it, it’s so necessary as a playwright to have somebody filling that role.

Ethan Persyko: I completely agree, and I think for me, the, the nuance that I have as a director, dramaturg, uh, and uh, finding myself operating both of those roles at the same time is I. I’m, I’m just a person who’s like, you know what? If I may use your name like Phil, you are doing fantastic and your podcast is slaying.

You’re doing so good, and I really appreciate what you’re doing and I mean it from the heart and scene, but like, it’s not a scene, it’s the truth. But what I’m trying to get at is, I’ve noticed is think both the playwright and I have appreciated where I kind of come in as a director, but a dramaturg where I’m letting the playwright know. You’re doing great in developing this new play. It’s ambitious to create a new play and, and I wanna support you and the, and the gag is, there’s the kind of more. Transactional relationship because if you don’t feel confident about the thing, how am I gonna direct it? So it’s, it’s not, I don’t want them to feel less or more confident.

It’s not necessarily always about that. I want ’em to feel confident about their play. But for me as a director, dramaturg, I really like. Not leaving the playwright behind. And that’s why as a director, no matter what I’m doing, unless it’s Shakespeare checkoff, I’d like to invite the playwright into the room unless it’s, I might have to go visit a different country in order, or a different person related to one of those

Phil Rickaby: Mm.

Ethan Persyko: But while I do have my playwrights. Frankly, alive and well and healthy. I would love to invite them into the room. I think sometimes I’ve noticed with like, uh, maybe me or directors, like in university, they don’t like to have the playwright in the room and sometimes I, I do wonder if it’s a bit of a, not a eagle thing, but a little bit of a, I don’t know if I’m actually like, uh, and if I’m really reading this play correctly and I don’t want that playwright to give me a false kind, and I’m like, ah, my vision, been moments where I’ve had playwrights in my.

Uh, rehearsal room, I’ve realized that I wasn’t on the pulse of one scene and I adapted because I don’t have that ego that I’m stroking. And so for me, really helpful for me that. I’m fortunate to have friends that are playwrights and they want to come and work with me. Uh, you know, playing the whole playwrights for all that time.

That’s a different story. But what I like about theatre, you can grab a playwright who’s your friend. They wanna work with you. They don’t wanna stop working with you after the play is done. They wanna kind of become this like dramaturg or playwright and just sit in on the process and you just have a friend that’s like a buddy that you can just like chat with as you’re doing, as you’re directing the play.

Phil Rickaby: I think, I think that that sometimes, um, some directors are not comfortable with the di, with the playwright in the room because actors will look to the playwright

Ethan Persyko: Oh,

Phil Rickaby: for an explanation or for like motivation or this sort of thing, rather than the director. And so sometimes having the playwright in the room.

Can be a detriment. I don’t think it’s always right. ’cause the playwright should know and, but it’s so hard ’cause egos the playwright should know. We should talk to the, that’s talk to talk to the director. Um, uh, and, and, and which again is hard. ’cause sometimes the playwrights solution might be. Oh, oh, oh.

I’ll, I’ll just, I’ll just write, I’ll just write that. I’ll just write that. Hold on. I’ll just write it. Which is like not always the best solution. ’cause then you write a new thing and now do you have to then adjust more of the play because you’ve ri you’ve written this thing. It can be very fraught. Um, and there have to be frank conversations between the director and the playwright to figure out what is the relationship in the room going to be.

Ethan Persyko: That is so true and you just like put me in my place, Phil. No, you are correct though. But you are correct because I literally just experienced that. So the playwright I’m working with right now, I worked with them on a new play that they were developing. First time writing theatre. Oh my God, this person, I won’t. Like, I don’t, I don’t have their consent to, but this person, if you can read my eyes and lips, you know who I’m talking. This person, my God, like, needs to be given more attention because I worked with them, uh, at the University of Toronto Mississauga, um, to, to help direct their, uh, play. And, um, I ran into that, what you’re describing.

I ran into. And I got, uh, whoa, I haven’t experienced this in a long time, and you’re right, what you just said happened to me. But what makes me, in my opinion, a, a strong artist, not necessarily a good director or a. A strong person is being able to have those frank conversations. And we did, we shed tears throughout the process.

This was my, this was my first time I cried in a rehearsal room. I’m like, oh my God, I feel so unprofessional. Everyone’s gonna be upset. Like I’m crying. And the directors are not supposed to, you know, the directors aren’t supposed to cry, and that’s like ridiculous. No, but. Just being open and, and honest.

Um, we had those frank conversations. We had maybe one or two rehearsals where yeah, they were looking over at the playwright and I’m like, back here bud. But, um, I don’t have an ego where I’m like, the playwright can answer something, that’s great. I think the problem is time is limited. Uh, if we only have one more rehearsal till we gotta go to tech or dress and you’re reaching out to the playwright or someone for like. Some directing consultation. I’m like, well, then I lose my place. So we were really good with that play in. Having those frank conversations and structure conversations early on about positions and kind of a d hierarchy, but still keeping, you know, what our roles and responsibilities and the, the truth of the matter is that play rate is working with me on the play rate, on the play that I’m working on now.

I’ve never experienced that. I’ve never experienced someone working with someone back to back because we had such a good process before and I’d like to attest it to those frame conversations that we had even with them in the room.

Phil Rickaby: It’s so, I mean, when you find people that you can work with, you work with them all the time, right? Like if you, I mean there can be detriments, like cliques are, are a big thing in the theatre and sometimes people complain about the. But they happen because these people have a common language that they’ve developed over time and they can, they understand each other’s work and.

That’s, that’s just a thing that happens. And it could be odd and awkward sometimes to bring in somebody new who doesn’t speak that language, and they sort of have to take the time to work with that. But people work with the same people over and over because they’ve developed a language and a way to work together.

And there’s, there’s nothing wrong with that.

Ethan Persyko: I completely agree. I’ll do a very small anecdote because I just like how you speak and you’re, you, you philosophize so beautifully. So I kind of want to shut myself up. Um, but. Even though I’m the, anyway, I digress. Um, what I will say is like, remember how I told you about that library that I’m now partnering with?

It was so funny because I actually not had not really met the librarians, um, until recently. But then there are people that I’ve collaborated with, even that like co playwright who I adore so much. But then there was something where like day two after meeting the librarians and them wanting to like partner up, they were communicating and I was like. You speak my language. Where have you been? All my life. You have, because they’re in Thornhill and in Vaughn, and it’s this beautiful thing where I am trying really, really hard to one, prioritize Vaughn artists. Thornhill artists as I would coin it, which are very rare. Um. Or Toronto or GTA artists that are open to coming to Vaughn and doing community-based leader because they know that they’re taking their ego more and more outside of it and they’re coming for a greater purpose.

So, was interesting again. Okay, Ethan, keep it very short ’cause you want Phil to speak more, um, is during general auditions for Theatre Ya Know which were beautiful. Oh, I cried and laughed and everything. What’s funny is even though I might have casted more Toronto artists in my season, I have the most level of trust.

And I’m not saying that it’s a comparison, whatever, but I do have the most level of trust. I feel you. We vibe with the Toronto artists that came into Vaughn for our Vaughn general auditions because the environment that we created and their values were incredibly aligned with what we were doing.

Phil Rickaby: I always think it’s important when, when artists are are, are traveling. When somebody is willing. Listen, Toronto is a, Toronto is a place where if I live in the West End, I will not cross Young Street, or if I live downtown, I will not cross the Dawn Valley. So if you can get somebody to come from Toronto to Vaughn, then there’s somebody who wants to do the work.

And so that’s something to be cherished.

Ethan Persyko: had someone from Kitchener that I was like, you’re my best friend now. I’m like, what? And then, and then, and then they tell you after the audition. ’cause I don’t wanna tell you before they tell you, after they do a good job at the audition where they’re coming from. I’m like. You are

Phil Rickaby: Yeah.

Ethan Persyko: top of my list and

Phil Rickaby: Yeah.

Ethan Persyko: me that you came from two hours, whatever.

Are you kidding me? And.

Phil Rickaby: Yeah.

Ethan Persyko: With that information I’ve told myself, Ethan, you better muster up something and you better make it a fun, engaging, good rehearsal process. ’cause these people are coming two hours to where you are. Uh, granted, because I would go two hours to do all these gigs and I’m frankly exhausted.

That’s the truth. But there’s also the Vaughn aspect. Um, there’s the, let’s just say there’s the grant, uh, facing, and then there’s always, you know. and all that great stuff too. But um, it just goes to show that like begets like, and opposites attract or like begets like both of them, your people will come and it’s beautiful.

Phil Rickaby: It’s, it, I, I, in a lot of ways, I’m thinking a little bit about some of the fringe festivals outside of Toronto in, in, in, in, like all over Canada that are really. That really appreciate the people who come from out of town. Like even if it’s a, even if it’s like a tiny fringe festival, like, like a Charlotte Towns, uh, uh, island Fringe, which is very smaller, or the Fundee Fringe in St.

John New Brunswick. These are very small fringe festivals. So when somebody makes the effort from out of town to come there and to to, to bring their show, it’s. The, there’s a real appreciation for the fact that somebody traveled, that somebody came there, and a lot of the fringes are just like great places to be for people who travel.

So if somebody is coming to your, your city to perform, um, they’re, you know, they’re willing to travel. It’s a thing that, that they want to, they want to participate for, whatever those reasons are, it, it’s always really great to just sort of welcome them and give them that space.

Ethan Persyko: I agree, I will be very short and sweet and say that, um, when I did the Toronto Fringe last year. shows that I went to go see the most and the people I interacted with the most were actually those that didn’t exist. That, sorry, didn’t exist, you know what I mean? Did, uh, don’t live in Toronto and came from Japan. I was like, oh my God. And like, I still have their email. I could still, you know, pen pal them. There’s something that makes my brain and system like. Beyond this magical overload of excitement when I’m finding someone that’s a pen pal from this or this and I, I, I just lose my mind. ’cause I find that power of arts that it can bring, uh, folks from all over the world.

We actually, in our playwright and residency program, we have someone that is going to be, uh. Having their premier, uh, a like in Canada, like a first ever in Toronto, Canada. Get this Vaughn Thornhill premier. Um, and there in the uk. And they’re in the uk

Phil Rickaby: Wow. Wow.

Ethan Persyko: I kid you not, and I don’t know why they said this, but I adored that.

They said this after our interview. They were like, I think I found a kindred spirit in you. I’m like, oh my God, I’m making me cry, but oh my God, someone from UK being your kindred spirit. Now that’s a story.

Phil Rickaby: There you go. Absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, Ethan, as we sort of, uh, uh, draw to a close here, um. Is there anything that you are working on now that you can talk about that, that, that, that you want everybody to know is in progress that they can maybe see?

Ethan Persyko: I would love to, and I’m pulling up and I do this on my podcast. I’m, I’m pulling up the Instagram ’cause, you know, just want to get my stuff correct. We have an Instagram at theatre www like ww.com. That’s why I did it. Um. That has a lot of information on what we’re currently up to. Um, one at the end of the month, we are commissioning like six no. Seven. Amazing, amazing, amazing, uh, new works in a local library in Vaughn that you can come and watch, which is just absolutely Um, you will actually be able, uh, side note, you’ll actually be able to watch through a live stream. So with that, because of the capacity, uh, of the library, we can’t have a normal theatre. I want to be inclusive of as many people. So the live stream, you pay $5, you get to watch these beautiful stage readings on. That’s number one that I have to address. The number two is that even though the deadline passed, we are always calling for producers. managers, stage managers, and choreographers for our main stage shows that you can also find on the Instagram. Uh, the third thing, I promise, I’m almost done, Phil. The third thing is that we do have a GoFundMe right now to help support the playwrights and actors of those stage readings even further. We’re fortunate to have a little bit of funding. But I’m like, not enough. These artists could use a little bit more. Um, and we actually just hit, we went from 22% yesterday to 42% today of our goal, because two of my friends sent an amount on the GoFundMe that I, I’m upset with them for how amazing. And then, um. The last, so there’s that, uh, which you can also see on our link tree. Uh, the last, uh, thing is we just launched an assistance and Associates program. Uh, the application deadline is May 3rd. This is for individuals interested in admin and management, design and production. Direction, producing performance and devising and dramaturg and education. You get the whole shebang. I don’t think I missed anything. Um, and really it’s just like if you, it’s a volunteer program, but if you want to learn more about theatre, I’m already receiving applications from individuals that are just dying to get more involved in theatre.

So those are like four ways that you can get involved. Plus the fifth of, we have some main stage shows coming up, like mka and all the others up until January of 2026.

Phil Rickaby: That’s awesome. Well, Ethan, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate having you get that. I really appreciate you, you giving me your time this evening. Thanks so much for talking to me about, uh, theatre, you know?

Ethan Persyko: Thank you, Phil. Appreciate it.