Alec Toller & Joshua Browne

Allec Toller and Joshua Browne are the playwrights of The Queen’s Conjurer from Cirnclesnake productions, playing now until November 20th, 2016.

John Dee was a 16th century adviser to Queen Elizabeth, and a scientist and magician when those two professions were indistinguishable. The Queen’s Conjuror follows John Dee as he tries to decipher an enticing but ominous vision which he hopes will provide critical information that will impress the QueenElizabeth enough to gain her patronage. To do this, Dee enlists the help of Edward Kelley, a scryer, medium, and possible charlatan. Kelley proves to be as brilliant as he is disturbed, and Dee must work through the wretchedness of Kelley’s soul and his erratic behaviour to access his revelatory visions and gain the Queen’s support. The show explores the complexity of intimacy, the dangers of vulnerability, and the necessities of both for the alchemical transformation of the soul.

Joshua Browne
Twitter: @joshu_ashua

Alec Toller
Twitter: @alec_toller

Circlesnake Productions
www.circlesnake.com
Twitter: @circlesnake

Stageworthy:
http://www.stageworthypodcast.com
Twitter @stageworthyPod
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Transcript

Welcome to episode 51 of Stageworthy. I’m your host, Phil Rickaby. Stageworthy is a podcast about people in Canadian theatre, featuring conversations with actors, directors, playwrights, stage managers, producers, and more.

If you’d like to be a guest on Stageworthy or you just want to drop me a line, you can find Stage Worthy on Facebook and Twitter at StageWorthyPod, and you can find the website at stageworthypodcast.com. If you like the podcast, I hope you’ll subscribe on iTunes or Google Music or whatever podcast app you use, and consider leaving a comment or rating. My guests are Alec Toller and Joshua Browne from Circlesnate Productions, presenting The Queen’s Conjurer until November 20th at the Attic Arts Hub in Toronto. Tell me about The Queen’s Conjurer.

Sure. It’s about a real guy called John Dee, who was a 16th century advisor to Queen Elizabeth and a scientist slash wizard at a time when it’s hard to tell those two apart. So that’s the focus of it.

And yeah, the general gist of it is that he, they find a star that pertains to Queen Elizabeth’s reign and she’s sort of concerned about it. So he goes to investigate it. He hires Edward Talbot, who’s a scryer, who communicates with spirits to try and get some more information on the star.

But bringing him in, because he’s kind of got one foot in the spirit world, he’s quite emotionally emotionally disturbed. And as they try to uncover this prophecy, they have to work through a lot of this turbulent emotional life to make things work. So it’s ultimately like, it seems like it’s about wizards, but really it’s about vulnerability and intimacy and human change.

Where did the inspiration for the play come from? Well, I was on a date and I used the word Thaumaturgy and I was like, am I using this? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. The date went very badly.

No, I’m kidding. Um, but, uh, anyway, and then as I looked it up, I was like, did I use that correctly? It means literally like miracle working, but it kind of means magic. Um, and I looked it up on Wikipedia and, uh, it referenced John Dee.

Like, so I clicked on him and I read his Wikipedia page and I just fell in love with the guy. He’s, he’s the archetype and prototype of a wizard. And in fact, in reality, Prospero and the Tempest and, uh, Faust were based on him.

Oh, really? Yeah. And then even today, like, uh, Gamolf and Dumbledore, like those, that type is him. Okay.

So as a super nerd, I was like, I have to tell my people’s story. Um, how, I mean, when you’re doing something that’s sort of a, a history piece, um, there, I, there can be this, this, uh, the urge to be historically accurate. Um, and decide how much of history you want to keep and how much you want to throw out.

Um, did you fall down a research hole or did you, uh, and how much of that research did you keep and how much did you, uh, did you, did you, did you throw out? Um, we kept as much as was dramatic and we threw out as much as wasn’t. Um, and also threw out as much as we could fit into a two hour play. He lived to 80 and a 1500s.

Okay. So he did a ton of stuff. Um, we sort of joke, semi joke that, that there’s a lot of material that will be good for our seven, seven season HBO series.

Not a joke. Um, uh, so there’s a lot of stuff and, and, you know, when you are doing a biography or any kind of history piece, you have to be really clear on what the story is that you’re telling because you don’t want to just tell somebody’s life. That’s very, very boring.

Yes. Uh, yeah. Even the most interesting life, you need to find a cohesive narrative arc.

So we kind of did that just to research and improv and writing and discussion. And there’s, there’s certainly a few major events in his life that we were kind of interested in. And once we really explored what, how those would be climactic or not, that kind of like retroactively kind of helped us figure out what the play was about.

Yeah. A great deal of that happened as well. Um, after our sort of first draft, which we jokingly referred to or lovingly referred to as the vomit draft, because we just wanted to get the play written and see what it could be, you know, and that, that was much more of a sort of biopic or biodrama.

It was, it was a lot more people talking about like 1600s, 1500s astrology. Yeah. Well, and it was also just a lot more, uh, uh, literal in terms of its timeline and this happened and this happened and historically accurate.

And we had them go in cause they went to Poland. They went to the Holy Roman Empire. They, you know, they did all of this stuff with these rulers.

Um, and, and once we had like our 15th ruler come in the room, it was like, this is boring, you know? And really, and, and once we got the actors together to read it, um, was really, it was a really telling night because we, we got everybody to read it and it was literally night and day between, oh, this is interesting because they’re talking to each other and things are changing within the relationship. Right. And then, oh no, this is now I’m asleep because we’re talking once again about the geopolitical shifts of the 1600s.

Did, did you guys find that, that, that almost like there’s that moment when you have that first draft and people read it and it’s, it’s a first draft, so it’s not good. No. And you can either go, well, this is garbage and you can either throw it out or you can try to sort of sit back and say, okay, this is what worked and this is what didn’t and, but it can be a fine line between, between doing the two.

Yeah. I found the first draft like, because it was truly a vomit draft, um, quite horribly stained. No, um, we didn’t, I wasn’t super concerned about what it would, like if it would work as a play because it was effectively research or, or like improv, you know, that we had just sort of jumped out.

I mean, not even improv, research is the closest thing, but it was sort of research, um, uh, let’s use a different word this time. Um, regurgitated through the, uh, through the mouths of the characters, you know, it was really, and, and we, so to answer your question more directly, we, we did, we had no intention of throwing it away. Right.

We knew from this, like from the moment of sitting down, this is not the play. This is something of the world. This is an arc so that we can then start to look at what’s going on and, and, and delve deeper into the relationships and the characters themselves.

And how, how long did it take you to, what was the writing process like and how long did it take you to get to, to performance, uh, quality script? Um, it took about a year, give or take. Um, well, I’ll tell you when I started research really, and so the early part of 2016, we were doing some research. Um, and then we, him and Josh and I wrote a first draft in May or April.

Sorry. Uh, then we did a month long, like workshop draw kind of stuff with the actors, lots of character development, exploration, improvising some scenes, just trying to make human these historical figures. Yeah.

Uh, and then after that, we sort of took the work we had done and, uh, wrote until basically our, uh, um, our, we started rehearsal October. We did the bulk of the writing in September because, uh, both Josh and I were working on other projects over the summer, but actually having that time apart, I mean, time apart from the script was really helpful because there’s a lot of big questions we had and lots of things we weren’t sure about. And I felt that when we came back to it in September, a lot of those big questions kind of sorted themselves out.

And then we got new big questions and stuff, but, but so many things like with the women’s role in it and, and what the play was about, like what that sort of story art was, those started to crystallize a bit. Yeah. I think you, you know, you work on something for a while and then you get, um, to the point where you can’t really see the forest for the trees and, and, uh, you know, and then so, yeah.

So I would say absolutely the time apart was really, um, time away from the script. I, we keep saying time apart. I was away for the summer out on the East coast.

So, um, but yeah, those, that was super valuable and yeah, I don’t know whether they work themselves out or we just say what we’re able to come back at them with really fresh eyes, you know? That’s what I mean. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, was this your first project working together or have you guys, what’s your collaborative history? This is our third show together and our second one that we’ve written together. Um, cause we had done dark matter before, which was a science fiction, uh, version of heart of darkness with no set, no props.

And it was a, it was a very fun show. And, uh, so him and I worked on that and we, um, we’re both involved in the writing. We also have, uh, the other actors in that helped write it as well.

Um, and we also did a production of angel city, which was my first play that I did, uh, which was for the project, the Sam Shepard version, uh, in 2013, it is a weird funky play, but we found out we worked with it all together. Um, and I kind of continued from there. And then I guess earlier this year or late last year or something, I said, come be part of my company.

Yeah. It was just me and I went with two people. So we’ve doubled in size.

Um, yeah. And I said, okay. You said, okay.

Well, you said, okay. But I was like, okay. Okay.

Yeah. Um, I want to ask you each of you about your, uh, theatre backgrounds and, uh, when it was that you realized the theatre was something you wanted to do and what was it that like, what drew you to the theatre in the first place? Josh, why don’t you, why don’t you start? Uh, yeah, I, um, I grew up a ballet dancer in, uh, in a small town called Lloyd Minster, Alberta. I guess it’s not quite so small anymore, but, um, and I was performing from the age of about seven and I was in a musical in high school in grade 10, uh, nine, maybe grade 10.

I can’t remember. Um, but I was in Bye Bye Birdie and I was a dancer in it and I think someone got sick and they literally like, were just like, Hey, you need to play the reporter. Now you have one line.

Here’s your hat. Here’s your pen go. And I, I wasn’t always, I did not poison anybody, but you know, I was, I had no desire.

I wasn’t, I was a rather, um, I wasn’t a really good ballet dancer. I didn’t want to do any speaking. And so, uh, uh, yeah.

So anyways, I went on and I got a laugh with my one stupid line and I was like, there was this moment of like, Oh, Oh, I like this. Like, I like the talking. And so, and then just slowly over, over high school, I started acting more and more.

And, um, I went to the university of Windsor, got a bachelor of fine arts there and, um, yeah. And then took some time off actually speaking of what, when you decided that theatre was something you wanted to do, it was something I wanted to do for a very long time. And then very abruptly, something I didn’t want to do anymore.

And, uh, school, school had sort of, um, uh, beaten all the fun of it out for me as it does for lots of people. I think I was young. And so I went and taught English and career for three years.

And then when I came back, I was, I was coming back to act. And so, yeah. Was it because, I mean, I, I, I gave up acting for myself for a period of years, but not out of theatre school.

It was, uh, I produced a massive production of Midsummer Night’s Dream and A Lost Play by Shakespeare. So it was this big thing. And then when that was done, I was like, I spent like a month going through emotions and then was just like, wait, Nope, can’t do this.

And so I stopped for maybe two, three years. Um, did you, was it, what was it that, that for you, that you think made you want to like, that you just couldn’t do it anymore? Um, I was, I mean, as I said, school like, and with, with lots of love to some of my professors and, and I certainly don’t regret going to school and all that I learned there, but school really, I think that institutionalizing the teaching road is really difficult. And I think that when you, cause so much of it, we grow up and go through, you know, from kindergarten to high school, you’re so much of your self-worth is wrapped up in the approval of, of whoever your teacher is and as well as your parents, obviously.

And, and so, and I think it’s a really weird thing as an artist to, to be going like, Oh, am I doing the right thing all the time? And so I was no longer having any fun, which is kind of, as soon as that happens, then you just sort of die. And just, I was really good at being the good actor and make the right choices and my performances were incredibly, you know, analytically sound, but pretty dead, pretty, pretty stiff and uninteresting. And, and it was just, it was no fun for me.

I was, I was, my whole self-worth was wrapped up in, in, before it was going well, then I was on top of the world. If it was going poorly, then I was, was ready to jump off a bridge. And so that was not sustainable for me.

And so, yeah. So I left because of that. And I didn’t know if I’d come back.

Did you, did you feel like when, when you gave it up, that you didn’t know who you were anymore? Were you, or is that one of the reasons why you went to Korea? Yeah. I think that’s the thing is that’s why I wanted to give it up because I already felt while I was working, I was, this wasn’t the same thing that I had been doing years before. This wasn’t the same thing that, you know, and, and there’s, there were productions that were exceptions where you sort of like get really lucky and find that sort of that, um, uh, that’s that flavor of things again, that, that moment, that, that thing that brings you back to the joy of it.

Um, but a lot of the time it was grind work for me and, and that was, you know, and when you’re, when you’re doing independent theatre and it’s a grind, it’s like, what am I doing? Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

When you’re not making any money and you’re miserable, why were you doing it? That’s right. Yeah. Did, was there something while you were away that, that made you realize that you were ready to come back to it? Or did you just, just one day wake up and feel it? No, it was a long time coming.

I was, I mean, I was away for three years and, um, and had a lovely life over in Korea, I was teaching English and rock climbing every day and, and I got really into mountain climbing and that was something I did all the time. And, and that sort of became my new sort of passionate thing I had in life. And, and it was really this slow creep that, you know, I would think about going and, and I actually hosted an open mic night over there.

That was very sort of coffee shops and singer songwriters and spoken word poetry and things like that. And I’m not my own, thank God. But, uh, but yeah.

And a friend of mine, uh, kind of by the name of Drew Cameron, uh, who’s actually still over there teaching. He, uh, he had done some acting university and he liked talking to me about acting. So he asked me if I wanted to do like some, just some work and play around and it had been so long.

And I said, sure. Yeah, it’d be fun. And so we did three scenes from in this little coffee shop in front of like 30 of our expat friends.

And, and I was like, oh yeah, this was, this is like, all of a sudden it was like, yeah, right. This is what I need. And then over after that time, it was pretty quick that I was like, oh, you know, this is a good life.

And if I could never act again, it would be okay. But, um, I don’t, I just, I’ve never found anything that is as, um, interesting, you know, as fascinating as the process. Cool.

That’s cool. Um, I know for myself, when I left, I was like, I was not going to go back in and went and got a day job and did that whole thing until somebody said, I want you to do this. I want you to play a touchstone in, in, as you like it.

And I said, I don’t, I don’t do that anymore. And they were basically like, I know, I know you used to do it and you don’t do it anymore, but could you just read it? We’d do this. And then I couldn’t, I couldn’t stop right for that.

Alec, what was your, uh, what, what was it that brought you to theatre? Um, I just want a really good spy train. No. Um, I started in high school a little bit before, but I went to an arts high school in Canterbury, which like about a billion people in Toronto seems to have graduated from.

So I did that, um, throughout and I was acting quite a bit in, in school and such, and I kind of found my way into directing because I got a little frustrated with my, the people who were directing me. Um, and I, I just wanted to make my own work and my own choices and such. And, uh, and I’m, I’m a, I’m a very medium actor and that’s okay.

I’m fine with it. I’m very happy to direct people who are very good at it. Um, um, anyway, so I did that and then I went to a theatre university, uh, uh, University of Victoria in BC because they have a directing program because it’s only two undergraduate directing programs in Canada, which is that and York, right.

Um, but I found it to be too slow, too simple. Um, and, and with speaking with some of the faculty there, it was pretty clear that they, they had a directing program on paper, but not really practice. And I, I, I had some debts with theatre at that point.

Anyway, I’ve been doing it for a while. And, uh, I have been doing photography as well throughout, um, high school and such and like that too. And I was like, well, I could probably figure out how to do film.

So I quit, uh, my theatre program and I transferred to York for film. I actually graduated with film degree in like production. Um, but I did quite a bit of focus on directing and writing.

And then after I graduated, I did, yeah, kind of two years of stuff, you know, like working on a summer camp and looking at various jobs. There was, I was definitely trying to do some side jobs in the film industry kind of stuff, like on set work and stuff, and it was over time. I kind of narrowed and narrowed and narrowed what I actually wanted to do with the skills that I had.

And then at some point, um, like I really, I truly do love film. It’s, it’s a beautiful medium, but it’s an enormous undertaking, even the way that a project even like this, um, isn’t just because the number of people involved in the money. And like, it’s just, it’s a very, very different.

And I was a little frustrated with film as a much more hierarchical approach, a way more organized, like you have to have a clear idea of it from day one, like what your project is, whereas what I like in theatre is that it’s very collaborative, um, film I find can be very hierarchical kind of, it can be collaborative, but it’s, it’s much like, there’s just so many more things to organize simultaneously. You don’t really have time to explore. Right.

And like make discoveries on set. You need to have knew that beforehand. Sometimes that’s always the thing that always got me about film was, you know, I’m a theatre actor.

And so I like, I’m like, I rehearse rehearsal rehearsal is a thing. And then anytime we’ve done a film, it’s just always been so, um, shocking that, that, Oh, I just show up and I get in front of a camera and I do it. Yeah.

And no, we don’t rehearse a thing. Yeah. It’s very strange.

I mean, it’s not, it’s not an actor’s ironically, I mean, as much as it’s pushed by star power, but the actual craft, not so much because an actor in the film, you’re giving material that the director and editor then select. Yeah. So if you are an amazing actor, 50% of the time, you could be a perfect film actor, but you couldn’t do that for theatre.

You have to be present the whole time. Um, not to say that film actors are any worse or better, just, just a different craft slightly. Um, anyway, so I, what I liked in theatre was the collaborative form.

I like discoveries. I like having an idea of what a show is or what a scene is and then discovering different things with my actors. And that’s kind of where I think I shine.

Um, and I just wanted to do stuff. Like I wanted to make stuff, um, and film against it’s such an engine to get going. So I, uh, I was actually, I had directed it, or sorry, I had shot and edited a trailer for this playwright project.

They had brought me in to help, help advertise it and I, they weren’t paying me. So I negotiated that, can I direct one of the projects in return? And they’re like, sure, why not? So I did. And I, I was very happy to do that.

And then from there I, I got back to the theatre. It was about three years. Yeah.

Um, yeah. How did you get involved with sex T-Rex? My brother used to be part of them. Okay.

And, um, I had, I kind of had always been not within improv, but their first scripted show Callahan, I was, they brought me in to work a bit on their workshop of it. Um, so I have sort of had a foot in from the beginning in some ways of, of this scripted work. Um, and I think part of what, why we were working well together was because of my film background as well.

And they were like, we, with sex T-Rex, try to make movies kind of happen on stage. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. So that was something that I brought, uh, or helped to bring, I should say. Um, and then I, so, so I was working like occasionally with them.

And then as a wildcat in 2014, I was brought in more completely to, to help work on the shows. Yeah. It, in terms of this show, what’s it like been, what’s it been like putting together this full production? Have there been parts of it that you had no idea how you were going to do as far as the production or like what, what’s the problem, what’s the process of putting this production together been like for you guys? Do you mean, uh, in terms of when you say the production? No, just as script writing, just like, okay.

Like getting, getting like, you know, the, the actors, the space, the like rehearsal, like the whole thing. How’s that process been for you guys? Challenging. Yeah.

Well, very challenging. I mean, it’s, it’s always challenging, but especially I think this time around I, I can speak for myself. I found it.

I think, I think a lot of us, we’ve both found it really challenging. It’s the first, as Alex said, we worked collaboratively before and like with Dark Matter, we had five writers in the room, you know, and, and for, for better or worse, really on this one, I think because of the nature of the research and, and how long we’ve been gestating this, we certainly relied on our actors for adjustments and ideas. And, um, but you know, the script is really in the end by, by Alec and I and, and some of the development, like we did a lot to make these characters, so they definitely contributed quite a bit, but yes, we wrote most of the words.

Yeah. And, and, and so just that, that like, you know, we were, we were really writing down to the final days before rehearsal and even, even in rehearsal doing some rewrites. And, and so doing that plus producing plus directing plus acting.

Um, yeah, it was, it’s a, it’s a whole lot. Was this your first, was this your first time producing or have you like outside of fringe? Is this your first time producing a show? I’ve, I’ve worked as a producer on a couple of things. Yeah.

I did some, uh, mostly stuff that I was also acting in, um, but it’s a new thing for me for sure. This is the sixth or so show I’ve produced. I only ask because I know for myself, I find fringe producing a little different than, uh, like regular producing.

Yeah. Festival production is, I find much easier. Yeah.

It’s quite the exit, but it could be a little more, a little more relaxed about things. You feel there are things that you don’t have to worry about. Like, like booking a space.

Yeah. Yeah. You have also 50 minutes to strike, like to set up and strike.

So like, you’re not doing big productions. Um, so you, you, you think much more, um, like much more minimal. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, what can you, what, what did you learn producing this show? I think the biggest little thing that I’ve learned is the time is a really valuable commodity and, um, you know, I am, I’m super proud of the group that we put together and what we’ve accomplished. Um, you know, I, I think that, I think that planning and, and just time, time is, time is just such a pain.

It’s just such a, you know, it’s, it’s just, there’s never enough of it. I mean, we all know that I suppose. Um, but I think going into, you know, the next, the next time around, uh, there’s a, a big part of me that, that just wants to be able to give things more time.

When you talk about time, are you thinking about like rehearsal time? Everything really. I mean, I, I would, I would, I would ideally like to, and I mean, this is not, you know, this is, this has been a great time, but, but you know, if we’re talking about what you learn, you know, I, I would, I would prefer not to be making big rewrites in, in, in, in rehearsal, you know, on something like this. I mean, it’s funny because the last project we did, uh, dark matter, there were huge questions, like right up until the final dates.

Um, but there weren’t huge rewrites and there weren’t, there were, there were like big sort of binary things of like, are we going to do this? Are we going to do this? Yeah. We kind of knew what either of them were. And I think part of it is because of the time period, because of how academic the material is this time around.

And we have a heightened language. Yes. You can’t be, you can’t do this with an old timey ish.

Yeah. It’s from old timey time. It’s Elizabeth-esque.

Um, but you know, and so anyways, uh, um, I’m rambling a bit, but that’s okay. Yeah. But, uh, I, I, I, I would like to have been able to spend, have spent more time on, on just being an actor for longer, for longer with the material, you know? And, um, and, and just cause you get to deepen the more that you, you know, and I mean, it’s, it’s, but it’s always like this too.

I mean, it’s the three-week rights. You know what I mean? It’s what we do in the Toronto Indie Theatre community. And it’s great.

Um, but it’s even better when your show gets picked up by somebody and then gets another life because then it has real time to develop and to grow. And I look at my favorite people in the Indie Theatre, uh, uh, community, and I really can’t wait to see what happens when they get some real time to make their work, you know, because their work is already fantastic. Some of them, but man, you know, if you put actors on stage for three weeks, you’re going to find that at the end of that three weeks, they’re starting to find their feet.

They’re going, Oh, okay. Now we know what this is and we can really start to play. I was thinking about that in this very question, I’m wondering, like, can I just do like, you book a space two nights a week and do a rep show for like six or eight weeks because everything works off word of mouth, you know, some theatre, some spaces let you do that.

And so, you know, just to see how that actually would be kind of interesting to do. No, I don’t think anybody’s going to do it. I mean, if they did, I mean, that’s not a terrible thing.

I mean, if somebody, you know, I think that, that, you know, having the opportunity, if there was like somebody starts it and then we get to do more, uh, uh, you know, two nights here every week that this is, this is our slot. We’ll come out and they know we’re going to do something, something really interesting here on this night. Yeah.

That would certainly be different and would sort of, I feel like that would, um, ameliorate some of the issue. I mean, on the other hand, like part of it is doing that many shows. I got to work in Reptis Summer for the first time in a little while and for God, how nice it is to like, it can also get really scary and monotonous at certain points, but, but really, you know, once you’re in a show 25, you’re just like, Oh yeah, right.

This is like, I know this at the back of my hand and the ability to be really, really present because you’re no longer worried about anything. Yeah. Hmm.

Yeah. So time was a big time. Well, that’s also, you know, that’s often a product of money.

Yes. That’s certainly, we’re trying to, uh, we’ve run this as a indie small budget, just trying to get work up kind of, um, company. And a lot of that has just partly been about getting skill and practice and experience of making shows.

And for me anyway, as most of the writer, like figuring out what my voice is and now, uh, I feel more confident as a director, but now I’m like, I’m, I’m confident with the work that I can produce and I think that I could, and we could make, you know, be getting grants and getting donations and sort of building the company out a little larger. Can I, can I ask you about the language? Cause you mentioned that it was Elizabeth ask. Yeah.

And what does, what does that mean for this? Is it a handbag contaminator? Yeah, it’s basically Shakespeare cause we’re pretty much Shakespeare. Yeah. No.

Um, yeah, no. Right. Is it versus is terror? How do you, how do you write for that period? We didn’t really, we just wrote in a heightened, like an older style of English, like genuinely it is probably more like, like early 18 hundreds English with some modernity in this.

Like, yeah, I would even, it’s probably not even that old. It’s, it’s, I mean, it really is base. We, we as much wanted to make something that translated for our audience as sounding the right fit as any sort of historical very similar to that.

Yeah. You know, we, we, it’s, it’s a little things like using the word perhaps instead of maybe, but yeah. And they have longer sentences.

Yes. Yeah. They’re more willing to have more complex grammatical structures and a bit more rhetoric speech rather than just like, you’re wrong.

I disagree with you. They would, you know, have some potentially eloquent little refrain. Yes.

Yeah. Which is, I have to say very fun as a writer, because we don’t in, in modern language, you don’t really get to play with the poetry of the language as much. No, you don’t.

Sometimes, sometimes, very rarely. And it always sounds a little bit heightened when you do it in a modern setting, but to do it in a, in a, a historical setting and Elizabethan setting, and it was also important, I think, for us to convey through the language some of the time period, because they are talking, like the subject matter is about angels and spirits and prophecies and, and religious, like Protestant Catholic split kind of stuff that don’t, all those really translate to today perfectly well. So there’s, there was something of like, you want to convey a world where those issues would really matter.

So that you can focus on the human drama and not like, why do they care about spirits? Yeah. I’m also, I’m also just a key word nerd, a little fan of words. And so, and I’m an honorist too, and so, and nerds, but especially words.

And, and so that was super fun. Nevermind. No, no, go on.

I don’t like to interrupt again. It’s cool. I, I don’t remember.

It’s fine. But it’s fun. It is fun to play in that language.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Did, and, and so you’ve been performing this for a little bit now, it was like two weeks, two weeks. I mean, we’re about halfway through it. Did, how, how, how’s the response been? Very bad.

No, I’m kidding. Overall, pretty positive. Yeah.

We’ve had great press. Our reviews have been really good. And, and, you know, talking to people who come out, there’s the, the spread of people who absolutely adore it and, and gosh about it.

And, and people who, you know, aren’t as moved by or isn’t their thing, you know, but that’s, that’s like anything. And I also feel, I mean, certainly with this kind of work, like I want to make work that’s going to polarize audiences a little bit and, and certainly like, I want to make a good show. I want to be able to appeal to people, but, I know, I think for both of us, this is a very personal show in a lot of ways, like there’s a lot of, I think us in it and that’s not going to get everybody, you know, if it’s, if it’s a very profiling and as we’re subject matter, like we’re dealing with wizards and, and then they’re emotional, it’s like, so, and you can’t, you can’t appeal to everybody.

You can’t, you can’t, you can’t write something universal because that has no meaning. Yeah, exactly. It’s just, that’s, that’s just a blank white canvas, you know, it’s all the colors, but you can’t say.

Um, so the press has been good. I, it’s been good. Um, uh, if you, have you had any response for, for like taking it to another, another life? Has there been any, any movement that way or literally every theatre has called us, that’s certainly on the horizon for this show.

I would like to, um, revamp it again because I think it would benefit from a bigger kind of production. I think there’s a lot of good stuff in there and I think there’s, um, I think it could appeal to a more traditional theatre audience, aside from just the indie crowd and I want to rewrite it and make it better. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, that’s, I think right now, in terms of its next life, the biggest impetus is for Alec and I, you know, we’ve got ideas about, about changes we’d like to make and, and rough edges to sand over. And, but I mean, we’re also, we’re writing a new album, right? Yeah, of course.

Yeah. And especially, I mean, I think now this is probably more true for me than it is you, but, but just having to actually be in the show every night and stuff, it’s like, you do have to just take off the hat at some point and go, okay, you know, I can’t, cause you know, otherwise it’ll just drive you nuts, you know, and so, so yeah. Um, but as a, as far as, uh, people getting in touch with us, um, should I say my phone number or no, I, uh, you know, that, that sort of thing usually would happen after.

Well, on the, on, on just, just on that note, are you guys on, on Twitter, uh, Facebook, what are your, what are your Twitter? You can find me on Twitter at, uh, Josh shoe underscore Oshawa. That’s a S H U a. Um, you can’t suppose name. Um, yeah.

And we’re on Twitter as company as, uh, at circle snake and I’m Alec underscore color company. Pretty exciting. And it’s really, it’s pretty, I can still not be able to spell my name, but at least I remember my Twitter.

It’s true. It’s true. I’m on Facebook with my real name.

So if you like, uh, learning about my first experience reading Harry Potter, then following my Twitter or Facebook feed, I have actually noticed that you’re, you’re, you’re having that, that, that Harry Potter. Yeah. And that’s actually what I came here to talk about.

It’s how well we’ve been wasting all this time about how to like continue seeing Alex posts on social media, but just not all of those, all of the I think they’re mostly aware that you can filter out and that’s what I’m in my mailbox and it’s so weird that he’s like, like, like each one at 140 characters only. It’s really kind of my owl. So that’s really, really kind of on the nose, but that’s like really awesome.

Um, I know you guys have to get going to, to get to your seven night, but so thanks, thanks so much for talking with me. Thank you. Uh, this has been a lot of fun.

Great. Thanks so much.