The Red Sandcastle Theatre & Eldritch Theatre
The Red Sandcastle is a 50 seat storefront theatre, in which_ Anything is Possible!_ In May of 2011, Rosemary Doyle opened the Red Sandcastle Theatre, with the intent of giving theatre artists a canvas. The Red Sandcastle acts as an Artistic Hub to rent for creators in theatre, dance, visual art, and music.
2021 marks the 10th anniversary of Red Sandcastle, and brings a new look and new management: long time renter with Red Sandcastle, Eldritch Theatre‘s production and artistic team, Eric Woolfe and Adrianna Prosser, join the Red Sandcastle team as Managing Director and General Manager and will act as Caretakers of the Castle.
Adrianna Prosser
Adrianna is a Theatre Erindale + Sheridan College Alumnus and award winning storyteller. She joined Eldritch Theatre as their Marketing Monster and Artistic Producer in 2016, marketing and producing Dora award winning shows such as The Harrowing of Brimstone McReedy and Space Opera Zero! _as well as adding new programming such as children and adult Dungeons and Dragons camps _Sword and Sorcery School, and online digital theatrical experiences during the COVID-19 theatre blackout.
Adding a new layer of support for artists at Red Sandcastle Theatre, with her digital marketing expertise; Adrianna has been teaching digital marketing storytelling at Centennial College since 2017 to both their Arts Management and the Museum Management program, and has been a guest lecturer for Humber College. As well as leading Eldritch Theatre’s marketing, Prosser has led digital marketing for the City of Toronto’s museums, Festival Players, Groundling Theatre, Theatrefront, GhostLight, and many more.
Eric Woolfe
Eric is an actor, playwright, puppeteer and magician, and the Artistic Director and founder of Eldritch Theatre which has been horrifying audiences since 1999 using puppetry, live actors, and parlour magic. His work for Eldritch Theatre includes Dora award winning and nominated works such as Space Opera Zero!, The Harrowing of Brimstone McReedy, Frankenstein’s Boy, Madhouse Variations, _and _The Babysitter. He is resident Dark Arts Professor at Eldritch Theatre’s Sword and Sorcery School, where he is head Dungeon Master and writer of Dungeon and Dragon adventures for the young and young at heart.
Some of his other theatre credits include Old Man and the River (Theatre Direct), The Comedy of Errors (Humber River Shakespeare), The Glass Menagerie, Ghosts (Touchmark Theatre) Rocket & the Queen of Dreams, (Roseneath Theatre). Little Shop of Horrors (Canstage), and Timon in Disney’s The Lion King.
Rosemary Doyle
Rosemary founded the Red Sandcastle Theatre in 2011, after being in theatre for 80% of her life and counting. Currently she is the Artistic Director of Theatre Kingston in Kingston, Ontario her home-town. Notable roles created by Rosemary include, Jane in My Mother’s Lesbian Jewish Wiccan Wedding, (Fringe, Mirvish), and A.L.P. for Finnegans Wake (Grand Theatre, Tarragon). Doyle has won seven 24 hour playwriting contests. This love of instant creation inspired her to create the Thousand Monkeys Playwriting Festival and her Play in a Week Camp that creates a play from nothing to full production in 5 days. Because of her love and talent for creation, she has been referred to as the “patron saint of indie theatre” a nickname she works hard to live up to, even in the government funded theatre world she is navigating now. Rosemary actively acts, directs, builds and designs sets and costumes and, of course, writes plays. We call her our Red Queen Emeritus.
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Transcript
Welcome to episode 302 of Stageworthy. I’m your host, Phil Rickaby. Stageworthy is a podcast about people in Canadian theatre featuring conversations with actors, directors, playwrights, and more.
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If you don’t listen on Apple Podcasts, you can still review the show by going to podchaser.com, searching for Stageworthy, and rating the podcast there. Thanks for listening, and thank you for your support. You can find Stageworthy on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at stageworthypod, and you can find the website with the archive of all 302 episodes at stageworthypodcast.com. If you want to drop me a line, you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at philrickaby, and my website is philrickaby.com. Last month, Toronto’s storefront indie theatre space, The Red Sandcastle, celebrated its 10th anniversary, and at the same time announced that the team at Eldritch Theatre would take over the management of the space.
I sat down with the Eldritch Theatre team of Eric Woolfe and Adriana Prosser, as well as the Red Queen Emeritus, Rosemary Doyle, to talk about what makes The Red Sandcastle such a vibrant space, as well as to talk about the theatre’s past and its future. One of the things that’s sort of exciting, and I really want to kind of jump into this, is the 10-year anniversary of The Red Sandcastle, and that is super exciting for one thing. A little independent venue that’s lasted that long is super impressive.
One of the things that I would like to ask, because Rosemary, we’ve talked about this before, but a lot of people possibly haven’t heard that story. It was a couple of years ago. Could you tell me the origin story for The Red Sandcastle? Okay, sure.
It’s quite fun. I’ve always wanted to have a theatre my whole life, and when I was a little girl, I actually started saving for one. So, I was saving all this money for one, and every time I had a little extra, I put it into this account, and I’d never touch it.
And then, when I was 40, I got divorced, and I realized if I didn’t spend that money, I was going to have to give half of it to my husband. So, I spent it, and I bought a theatre. I rented a theatre for a year.
Yeah, it was very funny. That is probably one of the best fuck yous in a divorce that I’ve heard. Well, yeah, it was good.
It was also the funniest thing, because I walked into… I’m sitting there in this cafe wondering… It was called Sophie’s at the time. It’s now The Purple Penguin. They have great sandwiches, by the way.
I was sitting in that cafe, and I was wondering what I was going to do with my life, and I saw this space, which is now The Red Sandcastle Theatre, across, and the woman was coming out. She was kind of sweeping, and then she put up a red sign. I looked at it, and I was like, okay, just one second.
I’ll be right back. I’ll be right back. So, I went over, and I looked around, and I was like, yeah, the sight lines are pretty good.
This could do it. This could be a theatre, and so then I was thinking about it. I had to go down to Kingston, actually, that day, and I was making such great time that I actually… I didn’t reach for my phone, because that would be wrong, but I reached for my phone book in the back seat of the car.
Anyway, and while I was doing that, I kind of turned the steering wheel the wrong way, and I hit this bump, and I got freaked out, and then I… Anyway, long story short, I spun out on the highway. Yeah, and then that was fantastic, because I was like, I could die at any moment. I’m going to do my theatre now, and so when I got back to Toronto, I called up the landlord, and then I said, hi, I want to rent your space.
He goes, great. I go, I want to turn it into a theatre. He goes, what? I go, a theatre.
He goes, oh, whatever, and he tells me the amount it’s going to be. So I said, can I go see it? I go see it. I figure, yes, it can work.
And funnily enough, because it used to be a pottery studio, it had just enough electricity for me to run the lights on it. I’ve since upgraded it, but at the time, it was just the bare minimums of what I needed. So basically, I told him on the phone, I was all freaked out from the car accident.
I was like, I can give you a whole year’s rent up front. And he’s like, okay. So I give him the thing, and he goes, I sign the little thing.
He goes, so a whole year’s rent up front? I’m like, oh, right. So I walk over to the bank, and I basically take out all my money in cash, and I hand it to him, and he hands me three little keys. Just like Jack and the Beanstalk.
I’m like, what am I supposed to do now? And that’s how it started, and that was, yeah, 10 years ago. It’s so exciting. And then the very first show was called Nearly Lear, and it was actually a show that had just come off of doing a run-up Broadway.
It was a one-woman show, and she was a good friend of mine. So it went from Broadway to the Red Sandcastle Theatre, and I was like, that’s how we’re going to start this. It was great.
One of the things that I think might be interesting to know is, and I think we’ve discussed this, is the origin of the name, why Red Sandcastle? It’s a little funny. Red is actually my initials, Rosemary Ethel Doyle, and Sandcastle, it’s also, I thought Rosemary Theatre might be a bit too on the nose, but Sandcastle is about the ever-changing nature of theatre, that you build something, and then like a sandcastle on a beach, it goes away, but that’s no reason not to build it. So I think sandcastles and theatre are very similar in that they’re alive for that moment of aliveness.
It’s not a permanent art form like many other art forms are. Well, speaking of that impermanent nature, people have done a lot of really interesting things in that space. It’s been configured so many different ways.
When you were first looking at it, did you only think of it as facing one way, or did you think that, oh yeah, you could do it like this, you could do it like this? Yeah, my take on the place was anything is possible, and I’ve always felt that. I wanted to give everyone a chance to do whatever they wanted to do. I wanted a canvas for actors, because you can do theatre anywhere, but if you have a place that has the lights, has the basic sound, is affordable, has the chairs, has all the basic things that you need, it makes it that much easier.
It’s kind of the difference between painting a boot and painting on a canvas. It’s just easier if you have the canvas. Absolutely, absolutely.
Does something stick out in your mind as the most innovative or interesting configuration of the Red Sandcastle? Uh, there’s been so many of them. I’ve loved every time the Eldritch Theatre has come in, they’ve done amazing things to the space, and it’s been really classy. Thanks.
Thank you. I love when we do our pantomimes, we’ve done really crazy things with the space. At one time, we were doing the Shoemaker and the Elves, and so the space was a runway, because it was all about fashion and shoes, and we had shoes.
I don’t know how I did it, I came into possession of like 400 pairs of shoes, so I had them hanging from the ceiling. Okay. It’s really transformed every time.
In our first year, and every year thereafter, we were doing approximately 42 different shows a year in there. It’s busy, and every show is different. It never got stuck into a rut, it was always reimagined in the most delightful ways, and I hope it will continue to do so for years and years and years.
Now, one of my favourite configurations was actually not for a show, but it’s the Thousand Monkeys Playwriting Festival. Yeah, that’s great. Which was such a great opportunity to sit down for a long weekend and put pen to paper, and get delirious as you do so, and end up with a rough draft at the end of 24 hours.
And they get to read these mad things, so that was fun. Eventually, when you first came up with the Thousand Monkeys Playwriting Festival, what drew you to that? Well, I got into playwriting a number of years ago at the Alumni Theatre, there was a 24-hour playwriting festival. It wasn’t like this, they just kind of gave you some things and then you went away.
I’d never written a play before, but I’d been in theatre since I was eight years old, so I wrote this play and I handed it in, I felt so bad because it was only an hour long. And they were like, it’s an hour long in 24 hours? I’m like, yeah, I felt bad, I thought it was supposed to be a full-length play, I felt horrible. Anyway, it was a contest, so I won that one, and I won a whole bunch of contests for 24-hour things, it seems to be something I can do.
But I got tired of contests, so I wanted a festival where we actually celebrate everybody, and that camaraderie of writers writing, I wanted us all to be there writing together and see how that affects the process. And the idea of staying overnight in the theatre, I set the downstairs into like, I put up blow-up mattresses all over the place and separate the little beds with like curtains and things. Burt Campbell said it looked like a refugee hiding spot or something, but it was really fun.
And then the local restaurants donated food, so we had breakfast, lunch and dinner supplied to all the writers. And then everybody got three different words, because often in these contests, everybody would have the same three words. And then you got a whole bunch of plays that weren’t really usable, because every single play had the same theme, and it was weird this way, we each got a different theme.
And yeah, it’s one of my favourite things to do. In fact, I wouldn’t mind in the future, bringing that to the Red Sandcastle Theatre as something that I come in every now and again and do. Yeah, it was for me, the idea of that camaraderie that you were talking about is one of the things that to me is always missing from those 24-hour playwriting things where they give you your words, and then you go away and do it on your own.
And it was wonderful to be able to sit down and talk to other writers, and take a break and be like, I am stuck. And somebody would say, How are you stuck? Tell me what you’ve got. And you’d tell them and they’d be like, What about this? And you’d be like, No, but actually, and suddenly you have an idea.
And you can continue writing it, which was a fabulous thing to do. The funniest parts would be when people would be to was how quiet it was, right? That that was a weird thing was it was super quiet. And then the other thing that was really funny was people would be typing away.
And every now and again, you get somebody would go, Oh, yes, or they were laughing hysterically while they were typing, or they like, you know, typing really intense. I go, Oh, yeah, that was quite fun. Absolutely.
I’d like to bring Eric into the conversation. Because, um, like Rosemary said, Eldritch Theatre has done so many of its shows at the Red Sandcastle. And I’m curious if you just want if you could tell me a little bit about what’s what you find useful and wonderful about the Red Sandcastle, what draws you to that space and how you see it each time you walk in? Well, I mean, because we for those for those who are listening who’ve never seen our shows, Eldritch Theatre does sort of comedic horror plays that that that have themes of the creepy and the uncanny and we use parlor magic and puppets to create like a demented little funny horror world.
And the venue, the space that the audience is in, contributes a lot to that atmosphere. We’ve been around for 20 years, but one of the struggles has always been finding a place that is available, affordable, and isn’t really glitzy. It’s hard to it’s hard to it’s hard to get that feeling of creeping dread if you’re in you know, the Tim Simms Playhouse at Second City, or if you’re, you know, if you’re in a new shining building, right? So, so one of the one of the fun things about the Red Sandcastle was that it is that tiny little bit off the beaten path.
There’s that DIY aesthetic to it. And plus Rosemary would always just hand us the keys so we could transform the place completely, right? It’s like there’s no other space in town where you can recreate the space, the whole theatre to fit the aesthetic of the show. You’re always, usually, if you’re renting, you’re encouraged to take up as little creative room as possible in the venue.
Yeah. Rosemary, I think you have something to say. I hated that when you go to places, they were so precious.
It’s theatre. You should be able to you should be able to do what you need to do. I don’t like this idea that I like what I tell people when they came in.
I said, you can do anything as long as it can be undone. No, right. Yeah.
Yeah. And Eric, you’ve you’ve I mean, you’ve used at least you’ve used the the long setup, which is like, we’ve used every setup. We’ve used every setup.
Yeah, we’ve used the we’ve used the short narrow. We’ve used the traditional long. We we used and we set up sort of an immersive space where the stage was in the was like an aisle in the middle with kind of nooks and crannies.
We’ve done shows in the creepy basement. You’ve done after shows in the creepy basement. We have done after show.
Yeah. Well, yeah. But after shows are shows.
That’s true. That’s true. It’s I mean, you know, something about when you’re doing when you’re doing something that’s sort of set in this, you know, the the it’s a sort of a horrific theme.
Nothing quite sets the mood like that stairwell down to the dressing room when the blue light is on those stairs. Those stairs are wonderful. Those stairs are wonderful.
But also, but also they’re really I don’t want to be in there alone when that’s when those like when the blue lights on. You don’t like the ghost. I mean, ghosts are fine and you have to treat them well, but it’s also like I like somebody else in there with me.
No, no. Yeah, with you all. I mean, yes, but I like something a little more corporeal there with me.
Now, one of the things that’s sort of precipitating this conversation is that Eldritch Theatre in the form of Eric and Adriana are going to be the caretakers of the Red Sandcastle. I mean, Rosemary, you’re in Kingston, you’re artistic director of the Kingston Theatre. What’s the Theatre Kingston Theatre, Kingston? And that’s I’m sure keeping you busy and and having somebody.
Of course, somebody has to keep running the theatre if it’s going to keep keep going. So Adriana and Eric are will be the caretakers. Yeah, in wonderful hands.
I’m completely confident that they’ll not only do as good a job as I did, they’ll do an even better job because they they’re really good at what they do. Adriana. Yeah, that warms my heart.
I, I, my cold, dark heart for Eldritch Theatre. But as well, like I have a history with Red Sandcastle outside of working with Eldritch Theatre that my one woman show sold out, had its sold out run when I was just like, what, what the heck am I doing? Like, again, like how Rosemary was saying, like, all of a sudden you’re jacking the beanstalk and you’re like, what’s happening? With the Solo Festival, which was another great programming that happened at the Sandcastle. And, and it’s just like, it’s been such a wonderful incubator and a wonderful place to just try, like, again, that idea of anything is possible and just, just try, like spaghetti on the wall kind of feeling.
And I, I took a huge leap of faith because that, that one woman was about my bereavement and loss of my brother to suicide. And it was a huge risk for me to share that story. And yet the whole time, like the, that Rosemary and, and Tracy and the people that were involved were just like, this is the place to do it.
This is the place. It’s super intimate. You’re going to be able to feel like held.
And it there’s like, it’s interesting that Eric goes that, Oh, it’s creepy here. Like this is where home feels to me. And yet when I was first introduced to the Sandcastle, I was like, Oh, this is an intimate, warm hug of a feeling.
So that idea that the Sandcastle can really be anything. And it really is truly a black box theatre where it really transforms into whatever you need it to be. It’s super cool.
It’s like a TARDIS. And I, I just have always felt so welcome there. And I think what Eric and I are really excited for is carrying that forward.
And just, again, echoing Rosemary, anything is possible as long as you can undo it and put it back to reset so that the next imagination and creation can come in. Let’s do this. Yeah.
Yeah. I have painted those walls so many times. It’s really wild.
There’s a beautiful fish under there that I felt very bad taking down. Like when I painted over it, I was like, I took a picture of it. I’m like, goodbye.
I would love to see that photo. Cause again, yeah, all of these different incarnations would be really neat to, to, to bring back to life. I know that we’ve started to bring life to social media for the Red Sandcastle to try and actually archive a lot of those memories.
So if whoever’s listening out there, if you’ve had a production at the Red Sandcastle, please send it to us. We would love to have it on our social and, and just talk about how wonderful those memories are. One of the other wonderful things to me about that space is, and Eric and Adriana both alluded to the intimacy of that space, how you can feel that space quite simply.
And I know I was, I remember talking to a couple of people and they were like, yeah, we’re performing this thing at the, at the Red Sandcastle. And I told, it’s really intimate. And they did their monologueue for me.
And I was like, oh no, no, no, no, no. It’s more intimate than that. You know, it’s like letting people, like you walk in and you don’t quite realize until you’re, until you’re in there, oh, the audience is right there, but it allows you so much interaction with the audience.
So like, you can really feel that audience there, which is one of those, it’s so good to have in a, in a theatre space is that, that, that having the audience that close. I love it. It’s really fascinating too, because a lot of the acting that works is almost filmic.
Yes. Everybody can see every little gesture, gesture that you do, like every little wink nod they pick up on. It’s, it’s not like you have to blast away.
And, and actually the most powerful place in that stage when it’s set up for the, the long wide one is actually right up against the back wall. You almost have to make distance for the audience to be able to see you properly. It’s kind of opposite to, to some spaces where you get right into people’s faces.
It’s like, you don’t have to do that because you’re already there. Yeah, you are really right there. Eric? Well, and the other side of that is because, because it seats 50, the audience, I mean, let’s face it, most independent shows in Toronto, most shows in Toronto get small audiences.
So having 50 people spread out in a hundred or 200 or 300 seat theatre is a very different experience than having 50 people crammed into a tiny theatre. I’ve had it up to 88. Oof.
And we will not tell the fire department that you ever did. People were sitting on the piano. It was funny.
Wow. Yeah. Did you have bunk beds? How did you do that? Don’t ask Fire Marshal.
We, that’s never true. It’s not true. We deny it.
This is, this is a pithy quote. It’s just for fun. Bunk seats, bunk seats.
They were outside, 88 people, but they were all outside and they had their own fire extinguishers. Um, I’m curious about, um, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re heading into this, this new, the next 10 years of the elder of, of, of, sorry, of Elders Theatre and, uh, Red Sandcastle together. Like I said, um, two great tastes that go great together.
Um, and, uh, I just wonder, uh, uh, Adriana and Eric, um, with, with, with Rosemary continuing as the queen of the Sandcastle, um, and you guys being the, the, uh, the, the, the caretakers, um, how, what do you see, uh, as, as your role in, in the, the, as the caretakers of the space? Well, we’re calling Rosemary, uh, henceforth the Red Queen Emeritus. Ah, Red Queen Emeritus. That’s very good.
Very good. I don’t know what that means, but it sounds cool. And I think for us looking forward, I think it’s, it’s also going to be quite reflective to be like, what, what do people want to come back? Like the Thousand Monkeys, like, um, I, I really enjoy being able to, uh, fill in some downtime with some workshops and professional development.
So, you know, if, if, if we find that, you know, there are some weeks that are just, I don’t know, for whatever reason, aren’t selling like hotcakes, well, who can we invite in as a guest speaker? What can we do to use the space? Classes work really, really well in that space too, because people feel the ability to have a good time there and, and to really open up. Like Tracy, she’s now down in Nova Scotia, but she had a long run of, of teaching at the Red Sandcastle. Yeah.
So a lot of that kind of thing. And I actually want to marry the idea of, uh, of Eldritch and Sandcastle and actually start some Eldritch Castle programming in so much that I would love to see like a freaky, a freaky fright fringe where give me your weird, give me your creepy, give me your strange and do like a little mini fringe festival. But like, oh my goodness, I don’t, I say that out loud and not knowing at all what I’m walking into.
So like maybe in five years, but like things like that, where it’s like, again, really pushing for creative outlets and allowing people to, to use the black box as a canvas. Well, that’s sort of, that’s sort of like really awesome because that sort of marries well with the Eldritch theatre aspect, right? Like to be able to, to have the Red Sandcastle with Eldritch theatre, uh, taking care of it and to be able to, to, to put those two together. Yeah, exactly.
Like, I just, I really want to not forget that this is now going to be the home of Eldritch. Eric, you had something you wanted to say? Yeah. See, I want to, I’m, uh, I’m hoping that because of that marriage, uh, I mean, we’ll, we’ll continue attracting the, the people who traditionally rent the Red Sandcastle, but I also want to make room for more magicians to do shows, more puppeteers to do shows.
Um, uh, it’s possible to have movie nights there. If there’s anyone who wants to, uh, you know, put up a, like a, uh, creepy movie festival or like that, there’s a whole, uh, uh, idea of the, the, of, of the theatre can be a magic space and enchanted theatre or a haunted theatre that I want to, I want to kind of lean in a little into a little too. So, so there’s still a home for the theatre companies who’ve used it in the past, but also there’s a, we, we take it, um, you know, we take it to, uh, we take it to an uncanny, uh, uh, enchanted place.
Well, Toronto doesn’t have a, uh, a magic castle. No, there’s no magic castle. I always said when, when Adrian and I were bouncing the idea around, around what we wanted to do with it, the, I, I, I thought that, you know, we could, we could make it for theatre, what, uh, Stormcrow Manor is for restaurants or what the, the, the Curious Package Company is for mail or for what Curiosa is for gift shops.
So that, uh, so that it’s not just a place where theatre happens, but it’s a place where, um, uh, the uncanny can happen. Well, it’s sort of, cause there’s a, there’s a theatricality to the uncanny, right? And that’s, that’s sort of like, it’s still theatre. It’s still theatrical.
It’s just, uh, I think that, that sometimes we get a little bit too narrow in our, our idea about what is quote unquote theatre. And there’s so much more room in the theatre tent. Um, yes.
When I was, um, when I was 18, I read, uh, the book Steppenwolf, which is about a guy who, uh, he’s about to turn 50. He decides on his 50th birthday, he’s going to have an accident while shaving. And what stops him from doing that is one night he’s walking home depressed and dejected, and he passes this building he’s never seen before.
And there’s a tiny sign on it that says, um, magic theatre entrance, not for anyone for mad men only. And he becomes obsessed with the idea of getting inside this place and, uh, his life transforms around his 50th birthday because of this, this secret little theatre. And, uh, I just turned 50 and have no plans, had no plans after my 50th birthday.
So the idea that we can turn the red sand castle, which has been our home, our de facto home for 10 years into this mysterious little out of the way magic theatre where the entrance is not for everyone. Uh, I love that was a really exciting idea for me. I mean, you’re elder cedar.
Isn’t the only, um, company that’s, that’s considered the red sand castle, their home. There’ve been lots of people who’ve, who’ve been there, who’ve come back, who’ve, who’ve made it their primary space. That’s right.
Isn’t it? Rosemary there. Yes. There’s always lots of companies that have made, uh, the red sand castle theatre, their home.
And they, they think of with it in mind. And it’s really quite fun because when people come and they do their first show, they’re a certain way. And then you can see the progression of them figuring out how they can push the space and how they can do different things.
And every time they come in, the shows are that much richer and that much more, they take more risks and they have more fun with it. It’s, it’s really, uh, it’s really been wonderful to watch. Well, that’s one of the things is because of the configurability of the space, because you can do so many things with it, because the only rule is as long as you can undo it, you can do it.
Um, you can really push things in a way that you certainly can’t in other spaces. Yeah. I’m amazed when there’s theatres that you can’t actually like do anything to the floor.
I’m like, well, then this isn’t a theatre, right? Like, I’m sorry. This is just a precious space. Theatres can be exciting.
It’s not precious. And I think it, I think there’s a, we get mixed up that the audiences like to feel comfortable, but the actual workspace where the theatre happens needs to be completely mutable so that our imaginations can do whatever it is that we want to show them. Yeah.
You know, and I think people get mixed up with that. And so a lot of governments build theatres and they build them to be, you can’t do anything with the, with the space. That’s to me, antithetical to, to the entire idea of what it’s supposed to be.
Did I use that word properly? I think I did. I think so. I think so.
So many theatres, and you know, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve rented theatres before with other companies I’ve worked with, where you are very limited in your, in your, cause they’ve permanently fixed the proscenium shape and the proscenium form into the audience. Or sometimes even if it is something that you could change, you walk in and they’re like, Oh no, no, no, no. This is the setup for you guys.
This is what you’re going to do. Yeah. And you’ve, you sort of feel stifled by that because you’re trapped in their configuration, not in yours.
Yeah. The only, the only stipulation at the Red Sandcastle is you have to be quiet after 11 because people live upstairs. That is the other thing is so, so no, no raucous musicals.
That is one of the things that has been worked into the new rental agreement. At 11 o’clock, the neighbours upstairs will bang on the floor. So be quiet.
Well, I mean, there have been storefront theatres in, in, in Toronto before I’m thinking specifically of say, for example, the storefront theatre, which was, you know, it was a marvellous little space and, and it was configurable. Yeah. It was inspired by ours actually.
So when I called, when I called up Bill, because we had been in a show at, and rehearsing at the Red Sandcastle right at the beginning. And so when he called up the storefront theatre, I called him up and I’m like, Ben, don’t you mean a storefront theatre? But the unfortunate thing, the unfortunate thing for them was the fact that they didn’t have a landlord that was cool with having a theatre there. Yeah, that’s, that’s difficult.
It’s also I think when I was spent the first 10 years, just paying like in big chunks, which I think made the landlord very happy. But I haven’t been doing that lately because of the pandemic kind of put a kible in that. But, but yeah, it used to make him very, very happy.
The first year he took my money from me and he went to Greece for a year. I’m sure they never had somebody pay them quite that much at one time for the space before. Yeah, I think another year he bought himself a car or something.
This guy owes you at this point. But I mean, and he’s, your landlord is like, he doesn’t mind that there’s a theatre there. The people who live upstairs don’t mind that there’s a theatre there.
No, I think they’ve actually missed it a little bit, I’d say probably except when the people are, no, of course, they don’t like that. Yeah. And, you know, they get certain benefits, like I take out their garbage and stuff like that.
So, you know, there’s benefits to having a theatre underneath. And so it’s strange for them because like, some of the shows are domestic violence stuff. So you’re basically hearing your neighbours have the same argument every night.
Or sometimes it’s musicals. It’s like, oh, there’s that song again. It must be 1943.
So, yeah, it’s I think it must be kind of fun. I haven’t been in depth of asking them too much about it because I don’t want to. No, but they’ve never outright complained.
No. No, they well, except for it. Yeah.
Define complained. Define complained. You know, like they’ve never reported me to the landlord saying you’ve got to get them out of there or anything.
That’s never happened. Also, I was there before some of them. Nice.
Nice. So I’m curious if you guys could tell me about what is Rosemary, I’ll start with you. What’s exciting about this partnership for you? Well, the most exciting thing is that the Red Sandcastle Theatre will be still doing what I set out for it to do, which is to give artists an opportunity to do their shows when they’re still inspired to do it.
Because a lot of shows like theatre spaces, especially when I first started, were more they’re kind of more corporate and they plan their seasons like two years in advance. And so you have to have this idea. And then you couldn’t actually put it on the stage when you were still excited about it.
You had to wait for funding and you had to raise all this money. Like and I got really tired of friends of mine in theatre coming to me and saying our show was a total success. We only lost $7,000.
I’m like, well, that’s not a success if you lost $7,000. Like you have to at least break even. I used to joke like, I don’t mind you misplacing a pair of socks, but I don’t want you losing your shirt.
No, like and, and that for me, it’s a for me, it’s a real passion project. And this way, this means that it was not for naught. It means that it will continue to go.
And, and the thing that’s the added bonus is that whenever Eldritch Theatre was doing a show in my space, I was just so proud of it because it became a little bit like that, like East Village, funky off, off Broadway theatre doing its thing, like being, being your, the magic theatre that you’re talking about, Eric, it, I felt like you really, your company always turned it into that, which was kind of the perfect vision of what I wanted for, for the Red Sandcastle. And, and in this partnership, not only do I get to keep the Red Sandcastle going, but I get to support Eric and Eric’s company and the work that he does by keeping it alive for them and for the rest of the community. I think it’s going to be an absolutely perfect way to keep that vision strong, even strong.
Thanks. Eric, how about you? Well, everything Rosemary said, really. I mean, I, I, one of the, one of the Eldritch Theatre long-term goals was always to have like a place that we could call home when we wanted, where a place like the Grand Guignol Theatre in Paris, where people would expect to see us, that was a little off the beaten path, that, that had a whole ambience to it.
And with this partnership, we can, we can carve out parts of the year where we can have that. And also, I’ve always believed in the, the same vision Rosemary has about, about how people should be able to create theatre on a, independent companies create theatre on a reasonable timeline. It, elsewhere in the city, it’s, you know, it’s, it’s once a show is ready to go on, sometimes it’s two or three years to get a space there.
You know, there are a lot of spaces where they won’t even tell you if they’ll rent to you until it’s too late to do the planning and the marketing and the hiring. And what one of the many things I’ve always loved about the Red Sandcastle is that you can, with, you can, you can rent it within six months or within the year, or find a little place where you can shove in a show for the weekend. And it’s also the most affordable place in town, which is great too, because there’s a lot of wonderful theatre that doesn’t happen.
A lot of wonderful artists who don’t get a chance because, because rental prices in theatres are so, so damn high. Adriana, do you have any thoughts? Just to echo all of that and to say that I think the spirit of Eldritch haunting Red Sandcastle more permanently will hopefully be, will be a bit of a modelling for people to take more risks, to, to be the freaks and geeks and, and to be okay to try things that are unconventional and really lean into how bespoke the space is and take, you know, like Rosemary was saying, like hang 400 shoes from the ceiling, like do things that, that are unconventional because it’s an unconventional space in so much that it can be any space. And, and just like how Eric and Rosemary were saying that some rental places can seem quite cold because they’re regimented to stay a certain way and their layout is, you know, prescribed and I, you know, the sandcastle has a bit more flexibility in that sense.
So you can imagine big in this small space. And I think that is what the sandcastle is all about. And like, again, Rosemary saying that sandcastles, you build them up and you know they’re going to be torn down again.
I love that, that impermanence and to, to really have pride in throwing something up for the sake of, I want this to be seen and building off of that for the next project. You know, it’s just, it’s a really great space that we want to invite everybody to play in. Come play in the sandbox, come play in the sand, make a sandcastle with us.
One of the things that just pleases me most of all is, is the fact that, that the Red Sandcastle is there. And as a, as a space in Toronto and so many businesses and so many restaurants and so many, the theatre world just sort of being shut down for over a year and, and, and nothing able to happen. It just makes me so happy that this space that I’m so fond of is, is going to be continuing there.
And this thing that, this wonderful thing that Rosemary built will be cared for for people, by people who care for it. Yeah. When we put out the press release just recently, I was actually amazed at how many people wrote back to the newsletter and or privately messaged all three of us to just be like, yes, this is the best thing ever.
I’m so happy. And just like there was such jubilation and such like, yes, yes, yes. And like one person just wrote back, like fans, period, fucking, period, exclamation mark.
And I’m like, you, you win. There’s a lot of love there. There’s a lot of love there.
And I think, I think when you do something for all the right reasons, people recognize that. And that’s a lot on you, Rosemary. You, you have built this, this sandcastle that, that has such capacity and, and such holding of space for people’s imagination and creativity.
And those are very vulnerable moments. Like, I don’t mean to get afterschool special on you right now, but it, it has always been so great to know that whatever these people want to bring to the space, you’re like, yep, yep, you do you. Honestly, you just do you, capital U. And I just, what is it like that? We’ve, we’ve also built in a Rosemary clause into the rental agreement where you have to give two tickets to the, to the sandcastle because Rosemary also made it very apparent that she wants to see what, what you’re doing.
Absolutely. And that felt great. Yeah.
Well earned as well. Like if there’s a fringe benefit from this, she Rosemary should get tickets. That’s just a minimum right there.
No, that’s the, that’s the thing I always loved being able to walk in and just see what people did and very much at home. And I used to walk in sometimes and be like, I’m sorry, I’m walking in. Like I own the place, but I own the place.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
It used to make me laugh, but, but yeah, I’m, I’m really, I’m really proud and I’m a little of a clumped cause it’s, it was absolutely so much fun and, and theatre Kingston here is really bringing up a whole new level of, of work and doing stuff. And we’re going to do some amazing stuff here. And I’m hopefully someday maybe we’ll take something that we’ve done down here and tour it to the Red Sandcastle.
Something, something interesting that I’m curious about now bringing up theatre, theatre Kingston is what have you learned from the Red Sandcastle that you’ve taken to theatre Kingston? Oh, how to do everything. Basically, like I’ve got, I can build a set, I can do the lights. I can like, so it’s, it’s really fun hiring these designers and stuff and actually being able to talk to them and, and know what they do for a living, you know, like, like, cause I’ve done it a billion times and like with the lighting designers being able to actually speak there and actually be useful in that respect.
So I’ve been able to save theatre Kingston a lot of money actually that way, because I can be the extra pair of hands or eyes or things like that. It, it was a really great training ground. I must say like when you’re, I’m not afraid of producing because when you’re basically the producer of, of 42 different shows a year, it’s like baptism by fire.
You know, you know that you can put something up in three days. You can do it. It can happen.
You know, you can go in there, you can set up the, it’s very hands-on, very physical. I used to do that. I think it also helped that I was a stay-at-home mom for so many years, like flash actress.
So I didn’t mind not really being paid much. I think that helped. So it was a bit of, I’ve always thought of myself more like a theatre priest and I think that’s, you know, it’s better than being a priest, I must say.
Yeah, no, it’s quite fun. And I just love theatre and I love making, like my favourite thing is a person has an idea, that idea becomes a reality. People walk in the door to see that reality.
I love, I love that. I love that that happens, that basically every single show starts with a few people sitting at a table. I love that.
And I, and it ends with a bunch of people sitting in seats. I, there’s, it’s just absolutely magical. And I’m really, really pleased to give it to magical people to continue that there.
Well, if that is not a perfect ending, I don’t know what is. Adriana, Rosemary, Eric, thank you so much for talking with me this evening. Thank you, Phil.
Thank you, Phil. Thank you, Phil.
