Cathy Huang

Cathy Huang is an Asian-Canadian multidisciplinary theatre and film artist, and a classically trained singer and pianist. She aims to redefine what it means to be Canadian, and eventually start her own company to create art for and support young people that feel caught between their Asian and Canadian identities. Cathy is one of Nightwood Theatre’s 2017/18 Young Innovators, and is the recipient of Theatre Ontario’s first Summer Intensive Youth Scholarship, having recently returned from Donna-Michelle St. Bernard’s playwriting course in Stratford. Past credits include The Headless Hipster (Adrian – Sixteen F ilms Limited), Go Home (playwright / director / actor / deviser), lady in the red dress (Sylvia), IRIS (Madison), The Three Ladies of London (Lucre / Love), and BUST (Alex). Cathy is playing Agnes in Filament Incubator / Epigraph Collective’s Imp from November 15-26, and co-writing / acting in HERstory Counts Theatre Company’s production from December 14-17.

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Transcript

[Phil Rickaby]
Welcome to episode 99 of Stageworthy, I’m your host Phil Rickaby. Stageworthy features conversations with Canadian theatre makers from actors to directors to playwrights and more. If you want to drop me a line you can find Stageworthy on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter at StageReallyPod and you can find the website at stagereallypodcast.com.

My guest this week is theatre and film artist Cathy Huang. You can catch Cathy in Filament Incubator and Epigraph Collective’s Imp coming in November. One of the things that I’m always really curious about with people is why they chose a life in the theatre.

One of those things that we, you know, a little bit crazy of us all to do. So what is it that drew you to the theatre?

[Cathy Huang]
I don’t know. I’ve kind of always been a performer. I’ve done it since I was very young.

I always wanted to be a singer. I always wanted to be an actress. I wanted to be famous.

I wanted to be on Disney Channel. But when I was in high school, you know, you take the careers class, I decided that it wasn’t a very viable career. So I decided to go into psychology instead.

So I actually went to university for psychology and ended up switching into theatre and film again later.

[Phil Rickaby]
How long did you last in psychology?

[Cathy Huang]
I never actually got into the program. Okay. So I initially got into the program and then I messed up and I forgot to click submit.

You know, you apply for universities, you get the hours. I forgot to click submit because I procrastinated everything. So I had to go into my guidance counselor and she ended up getting me into humanities instead of social science.

[Phil Rickaby]
Okay.

[Cathy Huang]
But yeah, then I never ended up getting into the program that I wanted to because I wanted to do a double major with psychology and English. And that was a whole different set of requirements. And I kept trying and then eventually I gave up and I realized I didn’t want to do it anyway.

Okay. So that’s why.

[Phil Rickaby]
Do you remember, like were you one of those kids that was always like performing when the grownups came over, you’d be like running into like perform in some way or was there anything that sparked your interest?

[Cathy Huang]
I know there are a lot of people, like a lot of celebrities who talk about how when they were younger, they used to put on these like elaborate skits for their relatives and stuff. I never really did that. I was just kind of always doing it as like my own little thing and not like a big production type of thing.

Like if there was an audience, there was an audience, but it was largely just for myself. So yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know where I decided I wanted to do it.

I’ve just been doing it for as long as I can remember.

[Phil Rickaby]
And when you were doing it high school and did you convince yourself that you shouldn’t, that you should try to do like psychology or did you have help?

[Cathy Huang]
Honestly, it was largely myself. My parents have always been really supportive. They’ve enrolled me in like piano lessons, singing lessons, acting lessons, drawing lessons, horseback riding lessons, everything that I wanted to do, they let me do.

Um, but being from an immigrant family, it was very, it was difficult to reconcile the idea that I could go into the arts, um, knowing how hard my parents had worked to come here and how much they had sacrificed and how my parents didn’t even get to pursue their own dreams. So I felt really guilty and I didn’t think that I could make any money off of it because I didn’t have any understanding of how to become a successful actor or singer without just being discovered and getting instantly famous.

[Phil Rickaby]
Right.

[Cathy Huang]
So I figured that it was either struggle for the rest of my life or, or pick a different career.

[Phil Rickaby]
And so you try to pick a different career.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. And it clearly didn’t work.

[Phil Rickaby]
It was like the fates really steering you in a certain way.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. Yeah. It was my friend in university actually, who was already in the theatre and film program.

And he decided he convinced me to, to do it. So he was like, audition for these plays that I’m working on. Just do it, just do it.

And it took him a year to convince me to actually audition for something.

[Phil Rickaby]
Like you were really resisting it.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. Yeah. I was like, no, no, I’m not.

I’m like, I’m past that. I’ll do it as a, as a hobby, but this is what I’m doing now.

[Phil Rickaby]
What’s funny is, is how much, because I spent a period of time for maybe like three, three years or so where I was like, no, I’ve given up, given up the theatre. I don’t do that anymore. And then there comes a point where somebody like asks you if you want to do something and you’re like, Oh, I don’t really do that.

Okay. And then all of a sudden you’re like, I’m in.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. Yeah. That year, the first year that I, I think was the third year I was in university is the first year that I got back into it.

And I did four plays that year. So it was like an immediate jump back in. And now it’s hard to remember that time because I feel like that was very much a time that I wasn’t myself when I felt like I wasn’t who I was supposed to be.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. Yeah. It’s interesting.

Cause you were saying just a minute ago about how, um, you had like being from an immigrant family, you had these feelings of, of guilt about pursuing your dream, which from a certain point of view, number one, I think that’s one of those things that probably is something that affects first generation immigrant families more than, more than anything else. But also is like, in a way they came here so you could pursue your dream. Right.

Isn’t it? There’s like this, this weird dichotomy.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. Yeah. You’re right.

But I feel like this is something that a lot of, especially like Asian immigrants, uh, Asian, uh, second gen kids feel, right. Because they know they watch their parents struggle and there’s so much pressure in the Asian community to like be a doctor or a scientist or a lawyer.

[Phil Rickaby]
Of course. I think that’s that way in a lot of immigrant communities, not just the Asian community, but generally I think for a lot of immigrant families, it’s like, be these prestigious things, you know?

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
And, and, but you didn’t actually get that from your, from your family. It came from yourself.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I knew that my parents wanted me to be a doctor because there was always like that little, Hey, maybe you do this.

Um, and I’d be like, nah, nah, I’m happy with what I’m doing. Um, but they absolutely never pressured me into it. They’ve been so supportive.

I have the greatest parents in the world. And I just felt so guilty. I felt like I was taking advantage of them.

Um, and I’ve always kind of been like that when I was younger, I used to get an allowance and then, um, I asked my parents to stop giving me the allowance. What?

[Phil Rickaby]
You’re like the only kid that’s ever asked their parents not to give them an allowance.

[Cathy Huang]
I know. I felt guilty. I felt guilty.

I didn’t want them to, to support me like that anymore. And I was like, maybe like 12 or something.

[Phil Rickaby]
Okay.

[Cathy Huang]
I wasn’t even making my own money yet. I was just like, I’m gonna make it on my own.

[Phil Rickaby]
Um, when you decided that you were going to go into the film and theatre department, uh, course at, at school, um, you had to audition. No, you just could transfer No.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
I went to university over a college.

[Cathy Huang]
No, I went to McMaster, which is not a very big theatre school. So that’s why I was, it’s definitely more of a general program there. It’s not, uh, it’s not an audition process.

You just kind of get in and you do whatever you want. So you can explore, so you don’t stream, so you can explore design, you can do stage managing, you can do kind of everything that you want. But the problem is that you don’t, you don’t specialize, right?

So you don’t get like all of this training that you would normally get at a conservatory.

[Phil Rickaby]
Um, so what were the areas that you, that you were interested in?

[Cathy Huang]
Um, because I switched in so late, I technically wasn’t in the program until my fifth year. I did mostly acting. Um, my final year, I wish I had gotten a chance to do the design because I think that’s the benefit of a program like that.

Um, but then I would have had to take a sixth year and I now I’m not doing that. So my last year I did the, um, the thesis course, which is to, uh, direct and write your own play. So that’s what I did.

That was my big, big thing in university. Everything else was just like acting courses and stuff like that.

[Phil Rickaby]
And what was your thesis part?

[Cathy Huang]
Um, it’s called Go Home. It’s about, uh, Asian Canadians and kind of all the intersections of crap that they put up with, I guess. Um, like racism, sexism, orientalism.

And I really, I’m really happy with how the production turned out, but I’m currently rewriting it so that it’s specific specifically focused on Chinese women.

[Phil Rickaby]
Okay.

[Cathy Huang]
Because I think that’s obviously what I know how best to write. And I didn’t feel comfortable telling the stories of Asian men or of South Asian women.

[Phil Rickaby]
Were you, so the, the original version was sort of like, uh, more generalized as far as like the Asian experience?

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. It was just kind of everything. And that was already, that was already too much.

We started off, um, wanting to cover all women of color and Asian men because my partner, um, in directing and writing was very interested in, um, indigenous communities. So we just kind of had it open at first and then we ended up narrowing it down, but still not, it wasn’t narrowed down enough.

[Phil Rickaby]
Right.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
Um, so as you start to, to, to work on it further, um, and you get more specific, are there things that doing it the first time taught you?

[Cathy Huang]
Um, definitely. I feel that because McMaster’s in Hamilton, um, I feel that it was very much catered towards a more older white audience. Um, but that’s not who I want my play to be for.

I want my play to be for young Asian women, immigrants, um, first gen or second gen or whatever gen, um, I want it to be for people like me. Right. Because growing up, I never had any kind of representation.

I didn’t have any Asian female role models. Um, so yeah, the plays for people like me and for any, anyone who can relate to it really, but it’s not, anyone can relate to it, but it’s not for them.

[Phil Rickaby]
No, of course.

[Cathy Huang]
Um, and also didn’t have any, uh, woman of color mentors while I was working on this play. So it would really be nice to, to get some of that and help them influence the show more.

[Phil Rickaby]
Um, I mean, so doing this in Hamilton where, uh, I hate to generalize about Hamilton. Um, but my experience in Hamilton, because I was there for the French festival last year. It’s not a lot of people of color that I saw in Hamilton.

Did you find that? I mean, you spent some time there. Um, did you find that, that I’m right about that?

And then also like, is it difficult? Like what was your experience like there?

[Cathy Huang]
Um, it’s definitely not a very diverse community, even, um, even at the university, which you would think would be very diverse. The theatre and film program is very much still white, which it has improved. Um, but when I did my first play, I was only one of two Asian women doing it.

And I wasn’t even in the program yet, but I was like the only, uh, Asian actor really. And then we did, um, a play the next year called Lady in the Red Dress by David Yee. Um, and that brought out a lot of Asian actors, which was really great because then a bunch of them started joining the program.

Um, so yeah, it opened up a lot of doors.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
Um, now following you on Facebook as I do, um, I know that, uh, I mean, you’re very vocal about, um, when, about stereotypes about Orientalism and things like that. Did you, I mean, did you find it difficult to find a voice in that or did it, did you just get so frustrated that you just had to start calling it out where you saw it?

[Cathy Huang]
Um, I think that this isn’t something that I really realized when I was younger. It took as much as it sucks to say, it took being in lady to really get me to want to, um, look into the injustice that the Asian community faces. Cause the year before I did a play called bust and it was about sexual assault and I’d already been kind of interested in educating myself more about it, but it wasn’t until I was in that play that it really motivated me to educate myself.

And it was the same for lady. Um, yeah, it was, it was, I just, I guess I, as soon as I started reading articles and statistics and learning more about this stuff, it just got mad. And I started realizing all of the things that I wasn’t seeing before and how a lot of people in the Asian community still don’t see the racism that we experienced.

I think like of all the communities were pretty much the least woke.

[Phil Rickaby]
Do you have a theory about why that is?

[Cathy Huang]
I think it’s because it’s just not talked about, right? The black community has been fighting back against racism for so long that they’ve, they’ve claimed more space and they’ve made more of a voice for themselves. Whereas the Asian community is just kind of sitting back and not really doing anything, which is not to say that there are not some really amazing Asian activists out there.

Um, but I think as a whole, the Asian community doesn’t really fight back as much as we should. And that’s because of a lack of education.

[Phil Rickaby]
Education about the injustice and the racism. I mean, from a certain point of view, if you look at pop culture, um, Asians in general have not been particularly treated very well in, uh, almost every film. I was actually thinking about that because, you know, before I talk to somebody, I like to consider a few things we might talk about and I kind of figured, I knew that I was going to bring this up because it’s, it’s something that I think is, is, is very important.

Um, and if, if I think about the kind of roles that are available for, um, an Asian actor or actress, and I was actually just thinking about, um, like, uh, even on the Netflix Marvel series that you’ve got like, you’ve got martial artists, you’ve got Yakuza and you’ve got like, I don’t know, ninja something like there’s like a limited option for like what their, their roles are considered to be. Whereas I think it would be far more interesting just to have like people who were like people instead of like having to fall Yeah.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. Yeah. I just think that Asians are still being stereotyped and it’s just, it’s very, very slowly getting better, but it’s still not fast enough.

[Phil Rickaby]
Right.

[Cathy Huang]
There’s still so much whitewashing.

[Phil Rickaby]
Oh, geez.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. Actually recently.

[Phil Rickaby]
I know like, what is it now that like this kind of that suddenly these films and television shows are coming out where it’s like, it’s okay to watch.

[Cathy Huang]
It’s, it’s because before they just didn’t care about minorities and now they think that they’re so progressive that race doesn’t matter, but we’re doing the exact same thing that we were doing before. Nothing’s changed.

[Phil Rickaby]
They’re just, they’re just putting in a different, in a different category. It’s okay. Cause we don’t see color.

And the worst thing that you can really say is we don’t see color because everybody sees color.

[Cathy Huang]
Exactly. Exactly.

[Phil Rickaby]
And I mean, if you look at a, at a show like, like Luke Cage, Luke Cage was the blackest show I’ve seen, but in like the, like so amazing and political and things like that. And it, it, it just like the characters were black, but they were also people, which is like, why that’s shouldn’t be revolutionary.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
That’s the kind of thing that I think would be beneficial. Like just generally to stop saying we don’t see color and just be like, let’s see the color and celebrate the color.

[Cathy Huang]
Exactly. But something that I am sick of is the whole concept of diversity. And this is a very new kind of concept to me because before I was always like, yeah, diversity, it’s great.

Put a ton of people of color everywhere. But I recently had a discussion with Philip Aiken. And he, he basically said that the whole idea of diversity is still hinged on the idea that we’re, we’re different from white people that we’re, that we’re the other, right.

We’re, we’re different from the norm.

[Phil Rickaby]
Okay.

[Cathy Huang]
Right. And so I think I’m going to, I’m going to try to stop using the word diversity as much and just, I don’t know what I would replace it with, but I, I like the idea of, of, um, thinking about ourselves, about POCs in, in our own respect and not just as something other than white.

[Phil Rickaby]
It’s interesting. I mean, in the, in the theatre, especially in the indie theatre community, but also, uh, in theatre in general, we do a lot of talking about, about diversity and every couple of months there’s a panel discussion about diversity and things like that. Um, and it’s interesting to think that the concept of diversity is, is actually harming the conversation in a way.

[Cathy Huang]
It can be, it can be. I, because I do think that a lot of these discussions are more about educating white people than it is for people of color. Because I remember recently I went to a panel and I was hoping to learn from other people of color about how they make it work in the theatre community, how they are finding work and how they’re struggling in, in the theatre community.

And the whole discussion just ended up being, well, how can white people fix this? Right. But I’ve had this discussion so many times that it’s just, it’s not useful to me.

[Phil Rickaby]
Somehow I knew that’s what you were going to say that it turned into.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
Because I think I was at, I don’t know if I was at the same.

[Cathy Huang]
You were there, you were there. Okay. Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
I was at the same, I was at the same one and I was like, oh, I know this. I know which one you’re talking about. And I don’t think that that’s an uncommon place to go when the conversation is organized by white people.

[Cathy Huang]
For sure. For sure.

[Phil Rickaby]
Um, I mean, I understand because, because I think that, that the idea of having that conversation is like, everybody wants to call out the companies that aren’t doing it and they want to, uh, like they want to like encourage it and yet it’s not helpful to the people of color.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. I think that if, if companies really want to make a change, they need to commit to casting and employing people of color because everyone’s asking for it because it’s popular. It’s popular to, to ask for diversity, right?

If you’re, if you don’t ask for diversity, you’re kind of a dick. Um, but it’s gotten to the point where that’s just kind of become meaningless and people just, they still don’t care about casting diverse. And there are very few theatre companies that will actually commit to doing so.

Um, factory cahoots.

[Phil Rickaby]
Absolutely. Factory cahoots.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. Um, are two great companies for doing this. Um, but yeah, they, they say they’re going to do it and they do do it right.

They don’t even really have to talk about, about how they’re going to cast diverse. They just do it.

[Phil Rickaby]
I think, I mean, from a certain point of view, better just to do it than to do a lot of talking about it. But I think it goes, um, deeper than just casting. Cause I think that, you know, we have to have, okay.

I’m tired of white guys at the head of theatre companies. I’m tired of, I’m tired of, uh, you know, Oh, another white playwright on like another white director. Let’s just like, I’m waiting for theatre to reflect the street outside my window.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah, exactly. Um, for sure. Diversity air quotes.

[Phil Rickaby]
Because we don’t have another, we don’t have a better word for it, right?

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. Yeah. Um, representation, representation goes beyond just casting.

It needs to happen behind the scenes as well, or else the casting doesn’t really happen.

[Phil Rickaby]
Exactly. Yeah.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. But no, I don’t, I don’t think that these panel discussions are completely useless. I think they’re very helpful, um, to people who are wanting to learn.

And I think it’s great that these people want to learn. Um, but for me personally, I think it’s, I prefer to remove myself from these situations now, just because it, it is a little exhausting. It gets a little exhausting to explain the same things over and over again.

And while these may be new concepts to some people, they’ve, they’ve been something that I’ve known for a really long time.

[Phil Rickaby]
To my, uh, my favorite part of that particular panel was watching Nina, Nina Lee Aquino on that stage. Cause she’s had this conversation and she’s over it. She’s like, she wants to have the conversation and she wants to change, but it was obvious.

And she’s like, we’re having this conversation again. I don’t have time for it, but I’m here.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
You know?

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
It’s just like, she’s like over it in terms of like having this conversation again.

[Cathy Huang]
I, I think we might be talking about different ones. I can’t remember. Um, I thought we were talking about IndyX.

[Phil Rickaby]
Oh no, no, no. But if you’re talking about the first one, it was at another, at another one. So I mean the, okay, no, now I know which, which panel you were talking about.

[Cathy Huang]
I was talking about IndyX at first, but then you said Nina was there. So I’m thinking about a different one.

[Phil Rickaby]
There’s a different one that I was at where, um, Nina was there. And, uh, again, it was like organized by white people. It was basically for how can white people help that sort of thing?

[Cathy Huang]
Was it the generator one?

[Phil Rickaby]
No, no.

[Cathy Huang]
Cause Nina was at that one and she was also fed up.

[Phil Rickaby]
Nina goes to, I think that Nina gets asked to all of them and she always says yes, but she’s already fed up when she does. Um, the one that we were at at IndyX, um, there were so many, I don’t know if I went to the diversity, but I think, I think you were there. I did.

Um, just, yes, I was. Yes. But it was just like, as always you’re like, you’re right.

It was like, how can the white people help?

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
And yeah.

[Cathy Huang]
And, and then Luke, Luke Reese made some really good points about how, um, there are a lot of, uh, POC theatre companies out there and they’re like sending out lists of their actors. Um, and they’re doing all this promo and, and a lot of white companies just aren’t listening. Right.

We’re like, we’re putting ourselves out there. We’re making names for ourselves and we’re still not making it because no one’s listening.

[Phil Rickaby]
Well, I mean, it goes deeper than, I think it goes deeper than just like the comp that the other companies aren’t listening, but the media is not listening. Um, cause the media is covering the established white companies over some of the companies that are doing some really amazing work. Um, in terms of the, the like activism on this issue and also making theatre, do you see that as something that you in your work, you want to pursue and do more of?

[Cathy Huang]
Uh, definitely. Yeah. Um, I was in Stratford about a week or two ago.

Um, and I was taking a playwriting course with Donna Michelle Zanbrenner and, and we were talking about this. She asked a question, um, to the class. Um, do you want to change the world with your work?

And I was the only person who said yes. And everyone else, everyone else in the class was an older white person. They’re like, yeah, no, I just want to, just one person would be good, but I want to change everything.

And so does she. And I think that, that really shows in our work, right? We talk about big political issues and I, eventually I do want to make work that isn’t only about the oppression that I, that I experienced.

Right. I want to just write stories about Asian women and, and people who are just people and who don’t constantly have to deal with the oppression. Right.

But right now, uh, at least that’s what I’m focusing on.

[Phil Rickaby]
In a way, in order to stop having to write about that, wouldn’t you have to get to a point where that wasn’t like part of your daily life? Yeah.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. Yeah. I guess so.

I guess if I were to not write about it, it would just be that I’m not focusing on that for that particular play, but it doesn’t mean that it ever stops being a thing. So I feel like even if I’m not focusing on it, it’s always going to permeate how I write and what I write about. Right.

Because my experience is always going to different than that of a white woman or a white man.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah.

[Cathy Huang]
Even if we’re writing the exact same story.

[Phil Rickaby]
Well, that’s, I mean, point of view and perspective is always like two people with the same idea, right. Completely different things. And our experience informs that.

So, um, yeah. Um, we’re, we barely even touched on the fact that, that, that you’re right. When did you start writing?

Was that just something, did you start writing just for your thesis piece or were you writing before that?

[Cathy Huang]
Um, I’ve always writing has been another thing that I’ve always been into. I used to, uh, write songs. That was my, my biggest thing.

They’re terrible. This is like middle school, stupid crush stuff. They’re really bad.

Like they, they hurt me physically when I read them, but that’s, that’s the main stuff that I used to somewhere, somewhere on my computer. Oh my God. They’re painfully embarrassing.

[Phil Rickaby]
Like, I think that as soon as I turned like 19, I took all of my shitty teenage poetry and was like, this has got to go.

[Cathy Huang]
Oh, but it’s memories. It’s memories. As bad as it is, it’s, it’s, it’s nice to look back and see how far you’ve come.

Hopefully, hopefully it’s not still as crappy as it was back then. Um, but yeah, I used to write stories. I like once co-wrote a novel with my cousin, which was also terrible because we didn’t know how to write descriptive stuff.

So it was all dialogue. It’s pretty much all dialogue.

[Phil Rickaby]
So maybe, so you were meant to write for theatre.

[Cathy Huang]
That’s exactly it. I don’t think I’m a great novelist, but screenwriting or playwriting, I think is, is better.

[Phil Rickaby]
Honestly, I think that like, I have always gravitated to, to writing for theatre. Like maybe I wrote some stories when I was younger, but as soon as I figured out what theatre was, I was writing stuff for it. Um, but now when I think I want to write something more prosy, not stagey, I find it so difficult.

[Cathy Huang]
It is really difficult. I have so much respect for, for novelists because that shit’s hard.

[Phil Rickaby]
Oh fuck yeah. It’s like, I don’t like, Oh, I have to describe things. And that sort of comes from the theatre thing of like, it’s collaborative.

Like I leave so many things open because I’m not Tennessee Williams, but also like it’s other people get to fill it in.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
It’s like that collaboration.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. That’s what I think is cool. Um, because for books, the writer is responsible for creating an entire world, but for plays, the playwright creates a part of that world and then everyone else kind of fills in the rest, which I think is really cool that everyone gets to be a part of, of the world building.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. Um, do you remember what the first play that you wrote was or the first thing that you could call a play?

[Cathy Huang]
Hmm. I honestly think that it, it might’ve been go home. I think that was, I have a big problem with, with finishing what I start when I’m writing.

Um, so go home was the first, I think proper play that I’ve ever finished. Uh, and it, I mean, I guess it was the deadlines that helped and the fact that I had people counting on me.

[Phil Rickaby]
Deadlines help so much. So much. I have the same, I have so many unfinished plays.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
Um, like I wrote my solo piece. It took me eight years to write that. And the only reason it was really finished is because I was like, I think I need to perform this or I’m never going to finish it.

Um, so go home was the, the first one that first finished play.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. The first play that I could call a play. I think, um, I wasn’t too focused on writing plays before.

I think I always kept my theatre film stuff kind of separate from my writing stuff, but, um, it’s kind of cool to combine it.

[Phil Rickaby]
Is there a reason why you kept them separate?

[Cathy Huang]
I don’t know. I guess I just never thought of myself as a playwright. Um, I liked writing, but I knew that wasn’t what I wanted my main thing.

Okay.

[Phil Rickaby]
Okay.

[Cathy Huang]
I always wanted to be a performer first and a writer second writing was kind of my release. Um, I’m mainly an emotional writer. So if I’m upset by something or, or, uh, whatever, that’s what’ll motivate me to write, which is why I, I so often don’t finish things because then I lose my momentum.

I lose, I lose the anger or the, or the sadness.

[Phil Rickaby]
And then it’s just, it can be really hard to hold on to that kind of thing long enough to like complete.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. And to make something good.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. Um, I was going to, Oh yes. I w I wanted to ask you, this is what, you know, yes, I don’t edit anything.

So all of mine, anytime I sound stupid, I always leave that in.

[Cathy Huang]
That’s cool. That’s cool. I think you’re sounding better than I am.

[Phil Rickaby]
No, no, you’re sounding, you’re just fine. You’re good. Um, so we met at IndieX.

Yes. So, which was, uh, Tapa’s, uh, annual indie theatre, uh, or conference for indie theatre makers. Um, had you considered yourself an indie theatre maker before that, or what was it that drew you to that conference?

[Cathy Huang]
I think when did IndieX happen? That was still maybe, I want to say spring. Yeah.

Yeah. Um, either I had just put on go home or it hadn’t been put on yet. Um, but because I hadn’t done anything in Toronto, I felt like I wasn’t an indie theatre artist.

I felt so separated from the entire Toronto theatre scene that I didn’t consider myself a real artist.

[Phil Rickaby]
Okay.

[Cathy Huang]
I still thought of myself as a student. I thought of myself as a student that wasn’t involved. Um, I really just went there to learn and I didn’t think that I had anything to contribute to anyone else.

[Phil Rickaby]
Did you, did your opinion change while you were there or.

[Cathy Huang]
It did not. It totally did not. Cause I still felt like, um, there were things that I felt like I’d heard before, but there were also a lot of things that I learned that day.

Um, and I felt super inexperienced. I was one of the only people there I knew who hadn’t done anything. Um, and I think the only other person might’ve been my friend Warren who was also there.

Um, so yeah, I don’t know. I just felt really out of my depth and kind of a little bit overwhelmed, but I saw it as a networking opportunity. So I met, met some people when I met you.

[Phil Rickaby]
What, I mean, when you left, did you feel like you had any clarity on what you wanted to do or did you, were you still as, as sort of a confused as, or, uh, confused is the wrong word, but the same as when you, as when you, when you arrived.

[Cathy Huang]
I think that every step I’ve taken since deciding to pursue this as my career has been a step in the right direction, a step to, to learning more about the, the theatre community and, and finding about finding out about more ways to get involved. Right. Even if some things aren’t that useful to me, I think that everything is contributing in a way and it’s furthering my curiosity and it’s making me more motivated to learn more.

So I do feel like it did, it did help a lot. It did teach me a lot. And I do think that it was beneficial.

[Phil Rickaby]
Okay. Um, what, what do you want, what do you want? Like if you were to imagine the career that you want to have from this point, you know, aside from the fact that, that, you know, you were saying when you said that you want to, you want it to be like a famous singer, like all that stuff, putting that aside and thinking about the career that you, that you imagine, um, what does that look like for you?

[Cathy Huang]
Um, honestly, I still think that my dreams from when I was a kid are still very much my dreams now. I’ve still always wanted to be a very well-known artist and, and make art that matters and, and changes things and people. Um, I just think that now I have a more realistic path to get there and now I think I can see a clearer trajectory for how to reach my goals, which is really cool.

[Phil Rickaby]
That is cool.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
Um, one of the things when I was in theatre school, now this was a long time ago, long time ago. Um, when I was in theatre school, they kept telling us about the importance of being, I get generally, they wanted us to be generic, you know, don’t have, don’t have hair too long. Don’t grow a beard, like don’t be, you know, be you so that you can be anything when you walk in the door for the audition.

Um, that said, I see a lot more, um, younger actors now who are, who are tattooed, who are pierced, who have green hair. Um, and did, did anyone ever say like, cause I wonder if that’s sort of like gone by the wayside because I think it’s more important to like embrace your uniqueness. Um, but it seems to, I think it might be a shift in, in a perception from when I was in theatre school to now, did anybody ever tell you like be generic or was, or did, was it like be who you are?

[Cathy Huang]
Um, well, every time I apply for an audition, I have to include, I’m willing to dye my hair, which I will be doing soon. I’m planning on going blonde just because the green hair does make it very difficult to get cast because I feel like, um, for auditions that are specifically looking for Asian women, I’m not what they’re looking for. Um, and for, for things that are looking for open ethnicity, which is usually a lie, I’m still not what they’re looking for.

Right. So I’m not saying that I don’t get a decent amount of auditions, but I do think that it would open up a lot more doors if I just looked slightly less like a troll doll.

[Phil Rickaby]
You do not look in any way like a troll doll. You do not.

[Cathy Huang]
If I, if I, if I hang upside down.

[Phil Rickaby]
Okay. If any of, okay. Except for me, most people, if they hang upside down, they’ll look like a troll doll.

Is there a particular reason why you decided to, I mean, this is old man talk here, but that you decided to dye your hair green or was it just because you thought it was cool?

[Cathy Huang]
Well, okay. When I, when I first decided to dye my hair, I wanted to dye it blue because I’d just gotten out of a breakup with a guy and I was like, I need to change something about myself. So I was going to do this blue ombre and that was a couple of years ago.

So I bleached my hair and then I ended up liking the blonde hair so much that I kept it for a whole year. And then in the process of bleaching my hair again, I used too strong of a bleach. So all my hair fell out.

So I decided to go blue and, and it’s just been that way for, for a couple of years now. It’s because I want to talk about it’s a long story. A lot of people already know the story, but I do want to talk about, I got pulled over, uh, my hair burned off.

That’s basically the gist of it. Um, but yeah, it’s been, it’s been this color for two years and the green is kind of how it looks when it’s faded. It starts off like a pretty dark teal.

Um, but this is usually what it looks like. I, yeah, I don’t, a large part of the reason why I’ve kept it like this for song is because it helps me stand out. It helps people remember me.

[Phil Rickaby]
Right.

[Cathy Huang]
Um, it makes me different from all the other Asian girls, which I know is, it’s not like a, like a, Oh, I don’t want to be like them or I don’t want to be associated with them. It’s like, um, people already see Asian women as so similar. It’s nice to differentiate.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. Yeah. Um, so do you have a, a, a plan for the, do you have a, like a plan to restage, um, go home?

Um, do you have like a, where you’re aiming to perform it or anything like that? Or are you still just working on it?

[Cathy Huang]
Um, I am in the process of currently like rewriting the entire thing, structure characters, um, plot, non-narrative plot, whatever, um, everything. So I think that’s like my main focus in terms of that show right now. But eventually I do, I’m going to be applying for a lot of TCRs, a lot of other grants and workshops and scholarships and whatever I can get my hands on.

Um, and then hopefully some companies who are more experienced with playwriting and developing plays, um, will be able to help me make it a much better show. And then eventually, I mean, like end goal would be really cool to put it on at like factory theatre.

[Phil Rickaby]
Okay.

[Cathy Huang]
That would be awesome. I think because I know some people, um, who are doing that right now who are workshopping their plays to be put on a factory. And I want to be doing that.

I think factory would probably be my, my dream venue.

[Phil Rickaby]
That’s cool.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
Um, is it something that you would ever try to do yourself or do you feel like it needs to live in like ultimately like a factory theatre?

[Cathy Huang]
Oh no, I definitely, I would definitely put it on myself if I knew how and just think I might need some help figuring that out, but yeah, no, I would a hundred percent self-produce. I’ve been thinking about starting my own theatre company and I’ve been trying to get my friend involved, but I don’t know if he wants to, so I’m going to keep him. I have, I have a few times and he just kind of doesn’t respond.

He’s like, he’s a weird guy.

[Phil Rickaby]
So yeah, that’d be probably cause he’s not, not into it.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. So I might have to do it myself, but I don’t, I have absolutely no idea how to, how to get started with that. But I am going to the Shen development series.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s great.

[Phil Rickaby]
I will know somebody actually like all those questions. Those are Derek, Derek Chua questions and those are Richard. Sorry.

Richard Lee. Richard Lee.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
Also, also Esther. Hmm. Yeah.

[Cathy Huang]
All of them. Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
So absolutely.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. I mean, that’s where you’re going to get your, get your start. Have you thought of an, like, if you were to start your theatre company, do you know what you would call it?

[Cathy Huang]
Oh God, I have no idea. It would have to be something like Asian related.

[Phil Rickaby]
Okay.

[Cathy Huang]
Because I do want the theatre company to be catered towards, I think East Asian women, because I know that there are a couple Filipino theatre companies. There are a couple like general more Asian centered ones, but there’s nothing specifically for just East Asian women. Right.

[Phil Rickaby]
Okay.

[Cathy Huang]
And I think that’s what I want my focus to be.

[Phil Rickaby]
Well, that’s important to know what your focus is. Like you were saying, like you’re the, you’re one of the two people in the room at that, that playwriting thing that wants to change the world. And that’s a big, a big focus for you is, is that.

So it only makes sense.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
You do that.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. It’s probably gonna have yellow in the title. Maybe my last name.

My last name means yellow.

[Phil Rickaby]
Okay.

[Cathy Huang]
Right. Isn’t that so great? I think that’s the, I think that’s the best thing ever.

I’m so glad that’s my last name.

[Phil Rickaby]
Really? So you’re Cathy Yellow? Right.

I don’t know why that makes me so happy, but it’s pretty cool.

[Cathy Huang]
I’m so excited. It’s like, it’s like when a Brown person’s last name is Brown. And I’m like, it took me a really long time to be comfortable with being Asian.

Growing up, I didn’t want to be Asian. Not because I didn’t like being Asian. I just thought it would be a lot easier if I were white to be an actress.

[Phil Rickaby]
Probably would have been.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. But now I’m so obnoxiously proud of the fact that I’m Asian. Right.

I’m literally like, I put it on everything. I’m like, I’m so Asian that I’m really excited about my last name now.

[Phil Rickaby]
How did you get to the point where you could go from not really wanting to be Asian to being proud of it? What was that journey like?

[Cathy Huang]
I think honestly getting involved with the theatre community in Toronto was a large part of it. Seeing these other Asian theatre creators that are either just emerging or have been around for a while now, kind of making their way and doing it and being proud of the fact that they’re Asian. Right.

Nina Lee Aquino, Marjorie Chan, David Yee, Richard Lee, all of these people, Paul, Sun Hyun Lee. It made me realize that I didn’t have to be white to make something of myself. And I think that was a large part of it.

And it was a lot of self-discovery stuff and getting comfortable with my body and the way I looked and who I was and just kind of growing up.

[Phil Rickaby]
Right.

[Cathy Huang]
Because I think that when you’re younger, everyone’s uncomfortable with who they are. But I think that as an Asian woman, especially growing up, looking so different from the standard of beauty.

[Phil Rickaby]
Right.

[Cathy Huang]
I have monolids. I have a smaller nose. I had thick, coarse black hair.

It was really hard. And I didn’t feel as pretty as I could. But I think that I’m very comfortable with who I am now.

And I feel like I finally settled into who I’m supposed to be.

[Phil Rickaby]
Perfect. And are you online? Do you have a website?

Do you have Twitter?

[Cathy Huang]
I don’t have a website yet. I’m working on that. I think maybe when I’ve done a few more things, I’m going to get a website once I figure out how to make one.

I have Twitter. I have Tumblr. I have Instagram.

I have Facebook. I have Snapchat. I have pretty much everything that you can think of.

[Phil Rickaby]
And if someone was to look for you on Twitter or Instagram, what would they look for?

[Cathy Huang]
All of my handles are usually the same. Mostly it’s K-A-F-F-R-E-E. For Twitter, there’s an extra E at the end.

[Phil Rickaby]
Okay.

[Cathy Huang]
And I think also for Snapchat, there’s an extra E at the end. Yeah. That’s what you would look for.

[Phil Rickaby]
All right. Awesome. Thank you so much.

This has been a lot of fun.

[Cathy Huang]
Yeah. Thank you for having me.