Will King
Will is a graduate from the BFA Acting program at the University of Windsor. Will has trained at the Moscow Art Theatre School, and completed workshops with R.A.D.A., the Stratford Festival, and the S.I.T.I. Company from New York. He is also certified teacher of the Michael Chekhov Acting Technique (GLMCC).
Selected Credits Include: Albert Einstein in Picasso at the Lapin Agile (Seven Siblings), Victor Frankenstein in Frankenstein (Echo Productions), Aladdin in Aladdin (Globus Theatre), Bernardo/Gravedigger/Player Queen in Hamlet (Unit 102 Actors Co), Sebastian in Twelfth Night (Hart House), Valere in Tartuffe, Constantine in The Seagull, Alfred David in Welfarewell (University Players), Demetrius in A Midsummer Night’s Dream, Bassanio in The Merchant of Venice, and David/Timmy from Lion in the Streets (U.Windsor). Will is passionate about cultivating and producing the development of Fantastic Realism, while educating performers with the ideals of Michael Chekhov.
http://www.willking.ca/
Twitter: @WillKingActor
Instagram: willkings
Seven Siblings Theatre
http://www.sevensiblingstheatre.ca/
Twitter: @SevenSiblingsCo
Instagram: sevensiblingstheatre
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/sevensiblingstheatreco/
Indiegogo Campaign: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/future-theatre-festival/
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Transcript
Welcome to episode 98 of Stageworthy, I’m your host, Phil Rickaby. Stageworthy features conversations with Canadian theatre makers of all stripes, from actor to director to playwright and more. If you want to drop me a line, you can find Stageworthy on Facebook and Twitter at StageworthyPod, and you can find the website at stageworthypodcast.com. My guest this week is Will King.
Will is an actor, teacher, and the artistic director of Seven Siblings Theatre. Seven Siblings is presenting their future theatre festival starting October 19th at the Attic Arts Hub in Toronto. Our conversation started just before the record key was hit with the question from Will, are you looking forward to the new Blade Runner movie? When I first heard that they were doing a sequel, I basically thought that it didn’t need to happen.
I didn’t, and then once I saw that Denis Villeneuve was doing it, I was like uh, maybe, okay. I still have the opinion that it doesn’t need a sequel, but then, you know, apparently it’s all really more about like what franchise can we reboot to make some money, you know? But I don’t know, the one, so you know, I mean this could also act as a reboot, right? I imagine, I mean, I don’t know if this one ends as bleakly as the original, but because the original didn’t really, really give you the opportunity for a sequel. No.
And this one, I wonder, you know, if they do that, are they like franchising? Are they like? I kind of hope they’re not. Yeah, I would hope they’re not too, but you never know. I guess that’s basically what happened with it, is they kind of revamped it into, and I guess they tried that again with the Dark Tower 2, but that fell pretty flat on its face.
But they tried that with the last Nightmare on Elm Street movie. They sort of did the same thing. Yeah.
As long as, because for a while there was a rumour that The Rock was going to remake Big Trouble Little China. Okay. And I’m like, do not touch my movie.
No, I think it’s, I think people get to the place too that, you know, certain things don’t usually work, but that’s kind of the difference between, I think, film and theatre. And that’s kind of like, I don’t know, I think the reboot is kind of the dark horse in that though too, because it’s kind of like, it’s nice to see another actor take up the mantle of that character from that perspective. It’s true.
But it’s dangerous, right? Because it’s like rewriting literature. The difference that we have, I want to leave this in, by the way, since we’re like dovetailing. Yeah, sorry, I don’t mean to.
We’re going straight into theatre talk, but I mean, that’s kind of the thing that sets theatre apart from film and why, you know, nobody gets pissed off if you do another version of Romeo and Juliet, for example, because maybe they never saw the last one that they could have seen. Right. But, you know, when something goes on film, there’s a permanence to it.
Of course. Yeah. And, you know, you can always see it unless it’s like one of those really lost films from before we were treating film like anything.
Like, you know, there’s all these lost silent films, but like film is permanent in a way that theatre is not. I don’t know. I think, yeah, I think that’s part of the vitality of the art form, too, is the way in which it’s framed can only be done ideally in that way once.
Yeah. And I think it’s written that way as well, that they want the permanence. I think directors are cautious, whereas, you know, if you go to a playwright and say your play is going to be done three times this year, they go, awesome.
Well, that’s sort of the difference in that when a playwright writes a play, they’re writing in terms of, you know, when I write, I leave so many holes open for people to interpret. You know, I don’t, I don’t, I mean, Tennessee Williams, he wrote a whole lot of stuff, but, you know, I generally, I don’t describe a set. I don’t.
I tell you what you need and then a director and a group of actors are going to make the final decision later on. Right. You know? So, whereas film is like, you describe it because there’s people building it.
Right. Of course. Yeah.
I mean, it’s so funny because I think they’re both collaborative, but in such different ways. I think the collaboration trickles down to the actors eventually, I think within the theatre, just in the way that it’s portrayed, you know, in the way that the information is consumed and you want to make sure that everything’s involved and that operates through them. Whereas film, the collaboration all moves through the director, right? So the director is in charge of keeping tabs on sometimes tens or hundreds or thousands or, you know, extreme amounts of people.
And they’re kind of that filter. Yeah. The other thing that’s really different about theatre is that eventually the director takes his hands off the wheel.
Yes. And in film, the director never really takes her hands off the wheel. Whereas like in theatre, you just sort of like walk away at a certain point and you hand it over to the stage.
Yeah. Unless you produce. Well, even when you produce, technically you are, you know, you’re hands off stage manager show now, you know, although, you know, I’ve worked with a few directors who, I think, yeah, I mean, I always leave it up to the actors.
After opening night, if I’m sticking around, I say, you can always come ask me, I’ll always tell you. And otherwise just keep going. I won’t, you know, I’ll respect your need to grow.
Right. You know, and I think that’s important. I think sometimes people need the room to take those risks and feel that they’re supported in doing so.
And that sometimes people want that support, you know, they want to be held accountable in a different way. Yeah, absolutely. Because that’s, I mean, it’s only through the running of a show that you really, really know it.
Like two weeks of rehearsal, like almost is not enough. And you don’t really know a show until you’ve like run it right. A whole lot in front of an audience.
Cause you know, if it’s new, you don’t even know what the audience is, how the audience is going to react to it yet. Yeah. I mean, that’s kind of the fun.
I think sometimes when you’re working with different types of materials, you can really, you have no idea how people are going to consume that material, right. Or how they’re going to take it. I always think that’s a lot of fun.
It can be really stressful, but mostly I think it’s fun. Yeah. Well, I mean, I’ve produced some things and I remember, you know, being in some new comedies and, but not really knowing, you know, you’re like, we think this is funny.
Oh yeah. I mean, comedy is one of those things that I feel like you have to just bring people into the room at a certain point before you’re opening. I feel like you need a preview for a comedy.
And I think previews are valuable, but I think it’s necessary for a comedy because it changes your pacing. You can change the meaning of so much material. Yeah.
I mean, some of the things that I’ve premiered, we never, it was like fringy and stuff like that. So you didn’t really have like a preview. You could bring some people in, but often it’s like people you know and who you trust.
And they, are they, is this actually funny? So you have this like moment of like right before that first laugh in a show and you’re like, I am not going to be able to relax until this moment. Yeah. And you know, yeah.
Oh, there it is. Now it’s good. How long have you been, so Seven Siblings Theatre, that’s your company.
Yeah. Yeah. We should talk about that for sure.
How long has Seven Siblings been around? So we’ve been around since 2014. Um, we’ve done seven or eight shows. Uh, we did one show, uh, Erica directed a version of Romeo and Juliet in Windsor, which is obviously where the first show existed under like the Seven Siblings mantle.
Um, and she really did that kind of, uh, out of school. She had that in the studio and they kind of gave her that space to do the show. And it was nice.
And I think, um, I think in a great number of ways, the producing was fairly risk-free, which was a great way to get started. And for us to feel like we had that kind of security, um, the first show that I directed, uh, is, uh, called Mercury referred by Philip Bradley. Um, we did that at the old unit one or two space.
Um, and that was our first kind of experience, you know, renting a venue, dealing with rehearsal space. Um, we had the great fortune actually, in that circumstance of one of the actresses was Anna Mika Wade, uh, who used to be company manager at the Terragon. And she was in fact, at the time, uh, that we were rehearsing this.
So we actually ended up rehearsing in that space and we’ve rehearsed in that space since then. Um, and so they’ve been very, very good to us, um, and letting us in there when they’re not, you know, they have shows, but when they don’t, when they have space available in the studio. Um, yeah, yeah.
And so we’ve done, we’ve done a range of material. Um, I’m trying to think of, it’s, it’s specifically, I mean, the work that we do is fantastic realism. So that’s, that’s our wheelhouse.
Everything that we’ve done exists within that direction. So, um, for simplicity’s sake, it’s often seen as something that is heightened or supernatural or absurd, uh, or just kind of anti-naturalist theatre, I guess, in a sense, is maybe the easiest way to sum that up. So we’ve done, um, observers plays.
We did rhinoceros. We did Apokos with the Lapinagio, which is the Steve Martin play. Um, and I think it’s just one of those things that allows a greater freedom for the actors.
And I just find the world’s really rich when you start moving into that realm of fantasy, you start taking advantage of, of the medium of theatre, you know? And I think there’s, that’s not to say I don’t like going to see naturalist theatre as well or acting in it, but as, as a producer, as a director, I think I enjoy this realm the most. Do you find, uh, the, this sort of style of theatre, a challenge in the indie theatre realm? I think so. Uh, I think in a way, uh, I have been joking the past kind of year.
So I don’t know if this is like really a fair statement, but I think it’s kind of true is I think sometimes we, we end up producing kind of counterculture theatre. And I think that the hardest thing about counterculture theatre, as much as I love it, is that’s counterculture theatre. And so the people don’t necessarily think that they know that they, that they need it.
But I think it’s extremely revitalizing to see things within this world. And it’s so funny too, because I think, you know, we start gravitating towards a filmic, a filmic style of storytelling, but there is fantasy in film, you know? And I think so often we’re trying to look for the most realistic way of showing something when I’d like to see the most truthful way of showing something, the most honest way. And I think there’s, there’s realism in that.
Um, like, I don’t want to see something that’s just off the wall and like crazy for its own sake. Like I’m not interested in doing that, but at the same time, I think there’s something nice about going a bit beyond the everyday. Yeah.
Um, do you, I mean, once you start adding fantasy into the mix, um, uh, I think one of the, I think, and possibly one of the reasons why indie theatre often maybe might shy away from, from a fantasy realm is you start thinking about like, how much is this going to cost? Yeah. You know? Yeah. I mean, we’ve learned with, with shows and I think we get better and better at the expectations of how to achieve that.
Um, we did a show in 2015 called Fever Dream, which was, uh, maybe a bit more expensive than it should have been, but it was, it was the first time that I kind of worked with projections and did projection design and kind of immersed myself in it for about six months and built a world, uh, that was as malleable as the script was, which was in and of itself a kind of a challenge. It’s an adaptation of life is a dream, but it takes place in a corporate office setting. And so each of the four quarters kind of sees, um, the rise of this character who’s been locked in the basement for 21 years and becomes the head of the company.
Then he gets thrown back down in the basement and then he leaves this kind of like corporate revolution through this, this space. Um, but there’s things in the play that say, you know, Oh, he’s kissed and the room turns to water or, um, all of the accountants are suddenly now accountants and they march around the room and they’re following him. And we didn’t want to take away from the fact that that was the world.
I mean, sometimes there’s, there’s definitely value in saying, you know, we can’t do this. There’s no, it’s not necessary for us to do this, but in this one particular play, it felt necessary to, to do it. Otherwise we were kind of cheapening the story in this state because the play, just the dream state of the play was so important to the story that it felt like it had to be seen.
But, uh, for the most part, I don’t think that’s usually necessary. I think sometimes seeing the people and seeing the domestic relationships, um, is more interesting than seeing the world. We don’t need color or visuals to understand atmosphere.
You know, we don’t, it’s nice when we have it. And you know, when we have those resources, they’re certainly useful for getting people to understand what’s being done. Um, but one of my favorite things to do with actors is understand how to play with atmosphere and how to explore atmosphere and how to define what’s going on within the space without seeing it.
Um, we don’t need a sound designer or lighting designer to do that. It’s just that it’s wonderful when they can. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah. Um, when you were doing there, your projection stuff for that show, was you, were you just like, was it straight up projection or were you looking at the, the, like the live projection mapping that people did? Um, so it was a bit of both. I mean, we did, I ran it through Isadora.
I don’t know if you’ve ever built anything in Isadora, but it’s specifically kind of like a live performance projection software. And so we, um, a very good friend of mine, uh, Parker Nolan, who’s like a godsend of lighting capability, um, got these basically eight LEDs that we kind of rigged up in the space. We were down at a Jambalese theatre.
They’ve got a studio down by Fort York. And, uh, we had built kind of these white walls. And so we had the eight lights kind of set up on one side and then the other side, I had a, uh, a projector running into a kind of a scrim.
And so we would match all of the projections that were done on the back that was eventually built to the show with the lighting. And so we had matched the kind of the two so that when the room went to water, the projections and, you know, most of the, the image would go to water and then you’d see it, just the whole room would go blue because it was a white space. So we kind of built this kind of backstage world.
Um, and we basically built it into a theatre, but we liked it because it felt a little bit corporate in that space, just because it was part of, um, a new condo at that kind of industrial feeling. And then it was also white. So we just bathed it in color.
When did you start being interested in doing theatre? Uh, well, I’ve always kind of done theatre as far as I know. I, uh, my parents signed me up for a theatre camp that I still teach at when I was about five or six, um, called theatrics, which is over in the East end. Um, if there’s ever kids who want to do theatre, you should check it out.
They’re really lovely. Um, and so I did that, uh, throughout all of my childhood, essentially that the way that the format of the group works is that they devise a play over two weeks, usually sketch comedy with kids and they work with your ideas and your characters. Then we structure them and we write a series of scenes.
We don’t give them actual lines, but we kind of built the plot treatment. Right. Right.
And, um, we workshop it and then they show it to the parents, uh, at the end of two weeks. So I had been doing that for most of my life. And it was interesting that I just kind of got used to it through that world.
When I was in high school, I started working there and I was working on the weekends, devising a show once a season, I guess you’d meet once a week with the kids for three or four hours. And, um, and now, I mean, I went to university, I’d be working there throughout the summer. And now I teach a class on Mondays for teenagers that, um, we break down work, like scripted work.
So it’s a bit different than actually what they offer usually. Um, but we pick a playwright or, um, or a style of theatre or a particular tone. Sometimes we made our own work.
Sometimes we worked with existing writers and we just kind of dive into that for nine weeks and then show, show the parents at the end, what we’ve kind of worked with. And I think that’s a nice way to kind of offer a balance between the two. Cause I think it’s important to learn how to create work.
Uh, and it’s also important to learn how to, to dissect work. And if you can have a good balance between the two, then you’re, you’re pretty well set. Uh, so I don’t even know if I, I, it was only at the end of high school that I really realized you could do this as a career.
You know, when I talked to them, when did you realize you could do this for a career? Um, but do you, you don’t remember, was there a particular reason why you went, your parents first put you in, in, uh, the theatrics or? Yeah. Uh, well, my brother signed up the year before I was, but, um, uh, I, I mean, really the, the end for me as an actor more from theatre, I guess, cause they just tabbed them around. It was, was film when I was like, I don’t know, one, my dad would put a movie on and I’d watched the whole thing.
And my brother would be running around in circles and he’s lovely. He’s very intelligent. Uh, but he, he’d be a different, uh, uh, brains or different focuses.
So I, I’d love features. Like I’d sit and I’d watch, um, movies over and over. I’ve seen the first star Wars like a million times, many people have, but it was, it was kind of like one of the films that I saw.
And so I watched it front to back forever, you know? Um, and I think it was pretty prevalent. I’d be making, uh, board games. I read a lot as a kid.
Um, I was always kind of interested in character and stories and it just kind of fell, fell into place, I guess. Cause it I mean, to me it, it felt like the best way to, um, understand people. I think it was a, it was a good way to understand different types of people and understand the world and philosophy.
And it was just kind of an in towards my understanding of lots of things. Yeah. Yeah.
Um, when you were in high school, did you do shows in high school aside from your work in theatrics or did theatrics? Yeah. So we did, we did some stuff there. Um, we did a couple of shows, uh, within that world.
And then I did, uh, there was a great, there’s, I went to Rosedale, uh, which is the regional art school in Toronto and they have a really fantastic, um, theatre department. Um, uh, they, we, we’d be devising work throughout, um, my time there. I wrote a couple of plays.
They do a fringe fest once a year for like new plays, um, but 20 new plays by people in grade 11 and 12. Uh, we did Murat Saad’s, um, in grade 11. Uh, it was actually fantastic.
The, the head of the drama department now is, um, Tamsin Kelsey, who’s a, uh, uh, actor. Um, uh, and, uh, she’s actually married to a playwright as well, but, um, I think it was one of the, it was just a reminder that you can do this. I think she was one of the people who kind of helped me understand like, this is what you would go to theatre school.
This is how this is set up. This is how much, how much work it is, you know? Um, and I think that was great, but it was, I think maybe I’ve just been, I’ve been very fortunate in the sense that it was instilled upon me and both, both my parents, I should also mention are artists. They’re not in theatre and they’re not, um, in literature, but my mom is a musician, she’s a piano teacher and my dad’s an architect and, uh, a guitar and bass player.
Yeah. And so I kind of understood that you could be an independent artist without, you know, done. And when you, I mean, you were saying that when you got, you finished high school, that’s when you realized that you could do this for a living.
What was it that, that, that made you realize that? And then what was your next step? Um, I don’t know. I think I just kind of thought that there must be people who are doing it and there’s people who are doing it well. And I had seen people, I think a couple, you know, you’d see people in your neighborhood, whatever it kind of, um, achieved like workability and been able to tour and that type of thing.
And I kind of figured I just wanted to do it and find out if I could, could figure it out. And really, I don’t know what else I would do. Like I, and there’s nothing, I make the joke that I like, I wish I woke up one day and just wanted to go work at a bank.
I don’t like, I never will have that experience. Um, uh, so I applied to a lot of theatre schools. I applied to a couple of schools for writing as well, but ultimately I was more interested in performing.
Um, and I went to Windsor. Okay. Yeah.
Yeah. Um, and at what point did you and, uh, the people in seven siblings, like realize that like forming a company was you were going to do? Yeah. Uh, so that’s kind of two tiered.
Um, we all, we are all, uh, graduates of the university of Windsor, but from different times. So the link between us is, um, the former head of dramatic art there. And he’s still, uh, he’s, um, he’s got a position in the university.
I can’t remember the exact title. I should, but his name is Lionel Walsh and he’s a certified master teacher of the Michael Chekhov acting technique. And, um, there’s a, there’s an association in the United States called the great lakes, Michael Chekhov consortium, um, which is essentially because the middle of these four master teachers in the, is in the great lakes.
And so that’s where they have, um, hundreds of people come every year for a few weeks in study to become teachers of this technique. Um, and we had studied with Lionel, uh, at the university of Windsor, cause it’s part of the core of our work and really it had been the thing that I, that made me feel most confident with my work. I mean, there’s a lot of tools that I learned in school, but I think the, the Chekhov technique always made me feel comfortable and, uh, not secure in like a, I felt pleased with myself, but just like being able to go out and take risks on a nightly basis and feeling secure in your choices.
I felt like it was really unifying and it brought me a lot of use as a performer. And so I wanted to learn how to do it, um, consistently and be able to share that with other people so that I could kind of build that, that theatre. Uh, and ultimately Erica and Madre and I all went in the same year.
And so we would drive up, um, into the States every year. We’d, we’d train there for two years and we’d come back and it’s kind of expected many of the people who are doing this university professors at different places in the States. There’s a couple of people who are private teachers at, um, uh, institutions, but the majority aren’t actually actors.
They’re actually teachers. Okay. And so we wanted to make sure that we were continuing to develop our eye as teachers of the works, uh, when we were not there.
And so the company was kind of forms that we would have projects to work on. We’d have a way to kind of, um, explain the vocabulary to people and get up and do the exercises. And it, it brought us, um, you know, a, um, an opportunity to kind of fine craft for ourselves as well.
You know, it’s just, it brought the conversation into the rooms that it wasn’t just me going into a show and being like, Hey, here’s the thing I do. And they’re like, great. That’s awesome.
Good for you. I’m glad that you do that. I don’t mean to say that people are cynical, but it was, uh, uh, it’s nice being in a room where you have a shared vocabulary and we certainly don’t stop other people from bringing their other work in.
But part of the, the way that we work is we always use that as our base. It’s just, um, it’s a very unifying technique. And I think most people who kind of come into it realize that quite quickly that it will be quite unifying.
Do you ever find people coming in who are reluctant to do it? Yeah. I think because, I mean, there’s a certain point at which, um, one want, like not at, not the process won’t work for everybody. And I’ve been in a rehearsal process where people are like, well, this is how we work.
And it just feels so, uh, instead of being the liberating thing, they think it is, it ends up being very constricting to be told that this is how you work when you don’t necessarily. Yeah. Um, the, the work itself is very physical.
So I think sometimes the, the only time that I actually experienced it in the room where people are, um, distancing themselves is because they won’t give into the physical nature of the work, you know, because of the way we exercise, like quality movement or psychological gesture, or, um, there’s one called the three sisters of the sensations where you’re rising, falling, and balancing. And you have to be able to, it’s physically kind of exhausting. And so you have to match it.
You have to kind of give it 110, you get 110 back. Um, but on the whole, I think the, the philosophy is actually quite unifying. Like the Michael Chekhov work really pulled from a lot of things.
One of the core principles is, uh, the four brothers, which is, um, the feeling of ease, form, beauty, and the whole, and that can be applied to so many art forms that it doesn’t feel restrictive to me. Right. And so many of the exercises, I don’t think, I mean, maybe this, I, I am a certified teacher of the technique and I believe it as a technique, but, um, I think sometimes the word technique can be really burdensome on people.
Like it has this like reverence attached to it. I like to think of it like they’re games, you know, they’re physical exercises, their ways of just getting us out of our head and into our bodies and just streamlining the way that we have our intentions. And I think some is in the room.
I’ll emphasize that. Like it’s, we’re not doing this because a dead person has continued to have this command on our capacity. It’s because it’s useful, right? If it’s not useful, then we won’t use it.
Um, and I should also say, I mean, we, we go through a select number of the exercises throughout the rehearsal process. We don’t do, there’s, there’s too many. There’s, there’s a lot of capacities, you know, 18, 20 exercises more.
I mean, if you wanted to keep making them up, but let’s say core exercises that you can use, and we use about three to five because you don’t want to waste time teaching something that you won’t actually use. And we tell people, you know, when we get to the end of our rehearsal process, um, just use whatever works for you. Like I’m not going to come over and be like, are you using the exercise? It doesn’t matter.
Like if, if, if they got something out of it, great. If they didn’t get something out of it, that’s fine. Because we just, we, we do the exercise and we apply them to the scene work right away.
I don’t want it to be separate. I want it to keep helping people, um, evolve through the work and just become increasingly specific. Um, and I mean, to some degree, I think just, uh, impassioned in their work, you know, that they want to feel that they have a personal connection to what they’re doing.
I think it can be really valuable for that as well. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Um, so the, the future theatre festival, is this the first year? This is the first year that we’ve done the festival and really, um, this is one of the first times that we’ve done new work within our company. And I think it was something that was felt a bit overdue.
Not that I, um, you know, don’t like any of the other things that we’ve done. I love the work that we’ve done, but it was something that I realized that I, I really love working on new work and I’d been working on new work a long time and we hadn’t done it as a company. And I think it’s because we were really trying to be clear about the type of work that we produce.
We’re seeking plays that help people understand who we are so that when the new playwrights came in and the new work comes in, it’s very, um, I don’t know, in tune with what our mandate is. Yeah. Uh, and we just wanted to make sure that we were working within something that we could succeed in.
You kind of don’t want to go from zero to a hundred, uh, and no time flat. But in this case, I think it’s a great opportunity for us to support three playwrights, um, through a process. It was important to me that if we were doing this, although we’re not, uh, I’m not essentially, I do some dramaturgy, but I’m not dramaturging.
Uh, we do some rehearsal within our development sessions, but I’m not rehearsing all the shows. Like we were, we’re here to support whatever they need. And it’s interesting that with all three of the shows, they have a completely different take on a rehearsal process.
They have a completely different team and size and scope. Um, like now he is, is directing his own work and Genevieve is bringing in a separate director and Becky is working the piece with Scott, just the two of them, and they go back and forth. And so we bring all of these people together, uh, once a month and we’ve been working on development sessions and each, each month we’ve had a different focus.
The first was on playwriting. And then we went into dramaturgy and character atmosphere. Um, this week, I’m looking at, uh, and we just want to make sure that it’s focused.
Um, and we bring in some of the tools that we know within the work to kind of help people see the work from new lens or embody the work in a new way. And then we say, okay, go back and write some more. Yeah.
Uh, and I think it’s important because I see a lot of times, you know, people get produced, but I don’t think they get the resources to succeed. And so I thought if we were going to do this, I wanted to make sure that people felt like they were being supported in what their development was. And I also don’t want to feel like they’re being restricted by what my tastes are.
So it is kind of a delicate balance. And it’s something that I’m learning is, is, um, I think successfully, but it’s just, it’s, it’s how to, to make sure that they are supported and that you do give them the help they need without, um, changing the scope and style of their writing. Hmm.
Um, so when these, these three playwrights, um, uh, came in, how much did they have and how much did they know about what the process was going to be like? Um, well, they all knew the type of work that we are going to do. Um, and then the scripts themselves range. So usually we had a sample of writing or we had large sample of their previous writing.
Some of the plays were partially done. None of the plays were fully finished. Um, which I think is important because actually wanted to be a part of, of building it.
I think, uh, structurally, um, we try to be as clear as possible. I think with people, what, what our process is that no one is surprised, but also I think a lot of the people who end up working with us work with us because they want to learn. You don’t have to know that the Michael Chukoff work to, to work on a show where it’s used.
I think that’s one of the great values of it is it’s, um, quite inclusive. Uh, and so I think a lot of the fun for me has actually been tailoring it towards a writer’s perspective. So, so much of it is, is actor centric, but we’d be doing actor exercises so that the playwrights could observe.
For example, um, in the first camera was the first or second session. We did an exercise called the palace exercise. Essentially the way the palace exercise works is you get the playwright to bring in about 10 themes and they submit the list and I look the list and figure which has the best kind of, um, suitability for the exercise.
And the actors, um, put themselves through, um, just like a kind of psychophysical palace, the location of false location, uh, where each one of the different rooms is a theme in the play. You just explore within that theme for three to five minutes. You generally do it in character, although you don’t have to.
And it kind of helped me see using the team that the playwright was going to use, what themes they were circling around and what ideas they were circling around and help them see how it was going to be manifested before they actually wrote it down. So you’d see, um, you know, escapism where you would see, um, plague or you would see, uh, ghosts, you’d see loss. Like they can be both literal and, and, uh, kind of emotional, uh, places, but just have to keep people playing with, you know, when I’m stuck in watching, it’s like a kind of a different thing.
But I just thought it was so fascinating to see the raw material of somebody’s writing, you know, and try to put that in the space and give them, um, just give them something to walk out with so that they didn’t feel like they had to write in circles. Like they always had something fresh to, to apply to their work. Were the playwrights watching or participating? Watching.
Yeah. So essentially they would, they would be the person sitting with me and then they’d be cushioning through the exercise and each, each one would take about 20 minutes. Yeah.
Did, uh, any of the playwrights, uh, want to get up and play? No, not usually. No. Yeah.
They wanted to take notes. We, we, everyone, uh, each of our sessions begins with like about a half hour of ensemble work in which I think it’s important that everyone who’s in the room participates, you know, so that we, I think that’s kind of the exciting thing that I, I think is really valuable is that we’ve created ensemble amongst the shows, which you almost never see. Um, you know, uh, not to just value other things, but that was also one of the things that we thought was really exciting is making everyone involved in the festival included in what that ensemble was and then seeing the value of the differences because the shows are very different.
The styles are very different. No, that is, that is sort of a rare thing. Cause usually at a festival, you’re just concentrating on your cast and your world and you don’t often get to interact especially not really early on.
You don’t end up interacting with a show that’s still in its infancy, you know, it’s only during performance that you might interact with them at all. Yeah. So we would do things like swap scenes, you know, just take, take a scene from somebody’s play and drop it off in someone else and see, just see what they do with it, you know, and the writer would go, Oh, that’s not what I wanted at all.
Or, or, Oh, I’m going to have to change that line because otherwise there’s going to be interpreted as this or, um, but I thought it’s been nice. I think it engineers a nice sense of play within the process so that it isn’t, uh, cold. How much do you know about the plays as they are right now? Cause this, this is, uh, going up in, uh, October, October, October 19th to 29th.
Yes. There’s gonna be six, six, um, versions of each show. I, I know, uh, I I’ve read a draft of all of them.
Um, uh, the earlier draft, I’ve read a second draft of most of them. Um, some, some bits they’re rewriting. I mean, they’ve never been staged before and that’s kind of, I think part of the fun of it.
Um, and why we think it’s valuable, but, uh, It’s so fun. It’s funny because every time they would come into a session, like I don’t always have the draft that they’re working on. And so something would come up and be like, Oh, I have no idea where this goes.
Like, I don’t know. Like, or, or even for, especially for the first two sessions, what we were working on playwriting and dramaturgy, um, some people would bring in a different creative team. Like, like who are these people? Like there was all these great kind of artists like cycling in and out of the room.
And I didn’t always know who the actors were or they were bringing in someone for the day or, uh, before they kind of finalized their cast. And, um, now, now it’s getting quite, I think scaled. And actually this weekend, I’m looking forward to kind of checking in with people and seeing how they’re doing.
I’ve checked in with the playwrights to make sure that they’re all going well and they’re kind of doing their own rehearsal processes. Um, for the week before we go into production, we’re going to have the space available for them. So we’ll be able to see, um, what, what they’ve been doing and if they want any help on, on staging or if they have any questions or if they want any.
And where, what performance space are you guys at? Uh, we’re at the attic over by, um, Queen and Greenwood. The brick and mortar space, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, have you worked in that space before? We haven’t actually, this is the first time.
Uh, I think it’s nice as an intimacy of the space and actually, um, this is kind of something I think that works really well in this space. All of these stories, uh, function around a fairly domestic, uh, narrative. Um, and it’s nice to have a place that could feel like their home.
And some of them are very contemporary. Some of them are not. Um, uh, Genevieve’s goes back and forth in time.
Uh, but there’s something nice about if you, I don’t know, have you been in the space before? Yeah. Yeah. So there’s the, there’s the kind of like the beams and just like the way that the, the, the place is structured.
It feels like it isn’t quite contemporary and yet the entire thing is kind of sleek white. So we can go back and forth in time. It doesn’t feel, um, out of place or jarring.
It just kind of works within the space. Um, and you know, we can, we can light it and we can, we can modify the way that people perceive it, but it just felt like it actually fit really well for all three of the pieces. Um, and I think having, having them in a space that we, we kind of take for a couple of weeks and feel at home with and get in there and, um, kind of, we don’t own it, but like own it.
It was great. How long has the whole process been from beginning to performance? Like how long? It’ll be six months. Okay.
So, um, we, we, I mean, we approved the playwrights before that. So I guess we’ve been reading them since we announced kind of what we were going to be doing this year. And then we went through submissions, um, and we had a good friend of mine, Andrew Markoviak, who was our script coordinator, uh, read through a lot of submissions as well.
He, um, is one of the co-founders of Filament Incubator. Um, and they do a lot of new work, um, a lot of York grads out of that group. Um, and so we’ve really kind of looked at it and tried to curate, I think, a variety of shows, a variety of different tones and voices.
Um, the actual development sessions are six months. Like they’re just one day a month for six months, you know? So it’s, we, I didn’t want it. We’re not doing the rehearsal process, but it’s supplementary to their strides as they write.
Um, and just kind of gives them an idea of, of, um, who we are, I think, so that they know what’s coming together. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, I can’t wait for the actual being in the space that week before is going to be really valuable, um, and kind of building those spaces. And we were doing a lot of stuff throughout the festival, I think, to kind of engage community, which would be nice. Um, uh, yeah, that’d be good.
What kind of stuff, what kind of stuff can you, is there anything you can tell me about what you’re planning to do? Yeah. So, um, I’m, I’m writing a play right now that is not as done as these plays are. Uh, but it’s, it’s, um, a play that’s kind of circles around the idea of cloning.
Um, but I’ve been working on it for the past year and we’re going to be doing a stage reading of it during the second week of the festival, just kind of a low key thing. Um, but I’d like to see it read aloud and I’d like to really hear people’s thoughts about it. Um, cause I just think as surprisingly cloning is actually a very divisive issue amongst people.
Like I think it’s a fascinating thing. I actually think it’s, it just, it brings up a lot of, um, themes and ideas that I think is prevalent to talk about in theatre. Um, so we’re doing that in the second week on the Tuesday, we’re doing a workshop, a five hour workshop with the Michael Chuckoff techniques that people can come in and do the work with us if they’d like to find out what that is.
Um, it’s like pretty cheap so that people don’t feel like they, you don’t have to break the bank to learn it. It’s just, we just want people to feel like they can come up to us and find out what we’re doing. And, uh, we’re doing, uh, like a closing night and Halloween party.
I’ve got our SOP so I can, so yeah, um, we do a Halloween party every year. This will be the third year that we’ve done an annual Halloween party, but this time it’s kind of nice to do it with the festival kind of close it out on the same day. And Halloween is for sure my favorite holiday or just kind of, it’s just, uh, many, many, I think actors and people would feel that way as well.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, yeah.
Um, so the, the cloning thing, it’s interesting how, how, um, when it gets divisive, because I think people are fine. As long as it’s like in their science fiction and they don’t have to think about it. Yeah.
Yeah. As soon as you present people with like, you know, if this thing existed, then X, then it gets real. People start to get really, and it’s so funny because there’s not, there’s tons of literature on cloning.
There’s lots of film around cloning. There’s a handful of theatre. Carol Churchill has a play called a number.
Um, and there’s a few pieces that I’ve read. Um, uh, I think Alistair McDowell has one. Um, but I just think it’s a, it’s a nice medium to see in theatre.
And I also think the thing that I think is really exciting is getting actors to play clones because it takes advantage of the theatre in and of itself that you can have complete, you can have completely different people in the same body and it’s eerie and it’s exciting. Uh, that was kind of one of the first hooks into it that I think it’d be fun play fun to work on. Um, that, that is interesting that cause that is the thing that we will accept in theatre that we won’t accept in film.
Yes. Like the twins in, uh, in a comedy of errors usually played by two different actors. Yeah.
Um, who don’t necessarily look alike, but we accept because we say they’re identical. Yeah. It’s one of those suspension of disbelief things that were afforded in theatre.
Yeah. Yeah. And I think it’s just, uh, I just think, well, do you mind if I ask what, what, uh, if, if you were going to see a piece about clowns, what is it that would excite you about it? Cause I’ve been asking people this kind of question point blank.
I’ve been amazed by how different the answer is. So what is your expectation if you were to go see a piece about clones? Uh, I think what’s interesting about the idea of clones is, um, well for me right now, cause this could change like in like an hour, but like thinking about it in terms of what rights are afforded to a clone, like you are a copy of an original, do you have the same rights as the original? Like even if you were to contain the same memories, but that original is still there, like, what is your, you know, what’s like, are you a person? Yeah. Are you an individual? I think it’s also, that’s what I find really fascinating too, is if you’re the carbon copy of someone else, at what point do you branch off? And at what point, uh, or do you like, are you continuing the predetermined destiny of the person that came before you in the same sequence, the same way in the same thoughts, or is there some elements that creeps inside you that makes you a different person based off the experiences that you’ve had? It’s really interesting.
Cause there’s a, I’ve been rewatching some Star Trek, the next generation. There’s like an episode where William Riker finds, uh, that because of a transporter accident, there’s a copy accident, there’s a copy of him. And they both have, like, they have the same memories up to the point where they diverge.
And it’s a matter of like, which one, like they just sort of like have this, obviously they have an advert adversarial thing because Will thinks that he’s less because that’s just a person, like, that’s a copy. Not the first time Star Trek has dealt with that cloning issue, but it’s like, how do you, like, first off, how do you, as, as the original relate to your clone, do you consider it lesser? Like what are, like, how does that all, you know, there’s a lot of, a lot of questions about that. So, yeah.
And I think a lot of my fascination, like the, basically the quick description of what I’m working on is it’s a, it’s a domestic narrative between the, surrounds the explorers clones within a supernatural crisis. So, it takes place in a world that’s, there’s a lot of things going on outside, but we’re seeing essentially a mother and son, and then a mother and son too, you know? And so, and how does that change your relationship with that person? Is your relationship the same? Can you reconcile the balance between two people? Is it possible? Like how, if you’ve gone through a grieving process for somebody and then you experienced that same person again, and they exist in the flesh exactly the same as they did before, how do you reconcile that? Like, I can’t, I just find it such a great experience. Like I can’t fathom it.
That’s why I find it so fascinating. But it seems so possible and it’s not, you know, we don’t need explosions. I can just have two people sitting there discussing that is enough for me.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, that’s the interesting thing. Like we now, so much of science fiction now contain, it’s all like, you know, laser guns and explosions and all that stuff.
But you know, we can also have science fiction and, you know, there’s a lot of old shows that used to do this sort of thing where science fiction is not like big grand space operas, which really we do have Star Wars to thank for that. But like, almost small drawing room dramas sometimes, just like about a situation. Yeah.
I mean, I think that’s the kind of the beauty of it. The more you draw the realism into these circumstances, the more truthful they become and the more we’re going to gravitate towards the absurd ideas. I think it’s the way that you treat the story, not the material itself.
There’s a great, I think aliens, ghosts, whatever. And you can bring it into a place where it feels like it could be a part of your own life. And that’s what I hope is you walk into the circumstances and you think, well, what I do in this circumstance, not, wow, that was zany and cool and funny.
Like I, as much as there’s a place for that, like, you know, I love Rick and Morty as much as the next guy, not everything I want in life is like kind of absurd zany sci-fi. Well, it’s always nice when you, like, if there’s a play and, you know, and movies too, I’ll take movies too. But like when people leave and they’re still talking about the movie, um, so many movies are kind of disposable you or, or sometimes even play as you leave.
And yeah, that was fine. But you don’t really need to talk about it. Yeah.
But man, when there’s, when there is a play that people are, are, are talking about, like when they leave the theatre and like, if you walk out and there’s still hanging around outside that theatre and they’re still talking about that movie, you’ve totally like got something unique there. Yeah. We were like, we did, um, uh, a show at the Toronto fairs this year called recall a science fiction piece by Eliza Clark.
And one of my favorite things was running up to people at the tents and people being like, what, what does it mean? How do I grapple with that? And it was, I kind of had a bit of a science fiction slant and really that that play was more about, um, psychopaths than, um, you know, the future, but, uh, I just think it’s so refreshing for people. I think there’s something nice about science fiction. Uh, same with horror that doesn’t get seen very often in theatre.
And I don’t know why I don’t have any particular attachment. Maybe it’s just because of the demographic that sees theatre. I don’t know.
I have, I have, I mean, I think that the demographic might be part of it. Also theatre likes to consider, and in some cases likes to consider it important, like air quotes, important. And a lot of the times, uh, the establishment sees genre as it’s kind of frivolous, you know, it’s not, not important to talk about in the same sense as film kind of in a way.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
So you find that like almost nobody does horror in theatre anymore. There’s more sci-fi theme stuff than horror because I think people haven’t quite figured it’s hard. It’s very hard.
Yeah. How do you do it? Yeah. That was, um, yeah, I think it’s really fun.
I mean, that’s one of the things that we tried to do is that the first show that I did mercury for was certainly in that direction. Um, you don’t want to space was perfect for it. And it was claustrophobic.
I’m fascinated with the idea of, of doing fear, like horror. I just think it’s really, I don’t want to do, we did Titus Andronicus as well. And it’s just, you know, you gotta be careful how often you subject your audience to that experience.
Uh, I just, I don’t, I don’t want to be known for doing that exclusively, you know, but I think it’s, it’s valuable if people are game for it. And I think just like horror, when you tell people you have to be good on your promise, but that they’re going to have a visceral experience, they will line up in crowds, you know, they, I mean, there’s an, there’s obviously an audience for horror, right? These movies have audiences and sometimes they’re like hits and sometimes they have a slow burn, but there’s people who love horror and we don’t give them that in the theatre. No.
Um, I don’t, and I don’t know if it’s because it’s too challenging to do it. Or if, again, we tend to shy away from, from genre, but fuck if you could, like, because theatre is so immediate that you could really like, Oh yeah. Really take an audience for a ride that they won’t get in the theatre.
It’s like, you know, if somebody slaps somebody in a movie, nobody gives a shit. Right. But if somebody slaps somebody on the stage, the whole audience is like, oh yeah, it’s so, because it’s happening right there.
So imagine, I keep thinking like, imagine a horror thing happening right there. Yeah. I don’t know what it is, but.
Yeah. I think there’s a certain place. I mean, I think the, The Pillow Man is a great example of something that’s really kind of taken that medium and made it, um, mainstream.
I mean, within theatre, I’ve seen lots of, I’ve seen, well, I’ve seen one production of The Pillow Man, but I’ve, it’s been done so many times. I think it’s a Martin McDonagh’s play. I don’t know if I’ve read it, but it’s incredible.
It’s, um, uh, anyway, I don’t want to, I don’t want to run the plot, but, but it’s, um, uh, I think he’s, I think he’s got an incredible capacity for understanding pacing and expectation for people when they come into the theatre and flipping it. And I just think, um, structurally there’s different things that you can do with theatre than you can with film. And I think there’s a really untapped amount of possibility within that realm that we just don’t see.
Um, and there’s a couple of people who’ve done, I remember going to see, um, uh, Louis Fernandez, who’s one of the Unit 102 guys, did a play called The Hungry a couple of years ago. Um, and tonally it did a lot of different things, but when it, when it really clicked into that, that horror realm, I just remember thinking, like, this could work. Like this can, this can be a medium, like you could have a theatre company dedicated to that, you know, and just do exclusively that one thing.
And if you can really crank it out, people will come. And I think it, maybe it is too niche. I don’t know.
I just don’t understand why it doesn’t happen. I don’t know that it’s too niche. I think that it is niche.
Yeah. But it’s the kind of thing that I think, because a lot of people, people who don’t go to theatre have an idea of what theatre is probably because they saw some bad theatre. Um, they, they think it’s other musicals or like another, another damn living room thing or whatever.
Um, but it, I feel like if you gave them something, they were not expecting and horror would be that, um, then they would, they would be hooked because those are the kind of people, like people love those, um, those, those, uh, found the found. Oh yeah. They love that shit.
But imagine like being in the room and the murder mystery sort of has that thing too, but like take that to another sleep, sleep no more. Such a great example of that. Yeah.
Cause they know it. I mean, that’s, I mean, maybe one of the most successful plays. I mean, I don’t know what the revenue is, but I don’t know, but maybe they’ve been running for years.
Yeah. You know, they’ve returned audiences. Yeah.
People who, who Excel spreadsheet, how to get the experience they want out of their, out of the night. So yeah. Yeah.
It’s, there’s definitely an audience for it. Totally. I think it’s also the horror requires, um, I don’t think horror works at a proscenium.
This is maybe my, I think it’s very, very hard to, if you’ve separated your audience from your performers, I don’t think you can withhold the same amount of suspense that you could when you’re on the same, you can, you can still, it’s, it could be a thriller, but I won’t have the same fear if you’ve created a fourth wall. No, but like in, in some of the indie spaces in this city, like, like, uh, the new assembly, you know, uh, the red sandcastle, some of those other ones, like the audience is like way close and there’s no separation there. So you could really, really fuck with an audience and some really, and I have, well, I mean, not, not, not just for the sake of, but, uh, but for the sake of storytelling, I just think that you, you work pace differently when you’re in a small room than you, when you do, when you’re in a big space, I was talking to somebody, I can’t remember who the actor was, but it was somebody in a production of Hamlet that was doing it within a bar and they were talking to Dave Gingrich and he was talking about, um, um, acting in the bar and what it could do for Shakespeare.
And he’s just like, it’s just, I get to think differently. I think differently in this space. I don’t have to show as much, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that he’s experiencing less, but it was just because of the intimacy and it changes the format of that.
And I just think horror just really clicks in an intimate environment and just, you, you can’t be separate from the action. Otherwise you, you’re not on the hook. Yeah.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Are you on social media? Well, I am.
Okay. Yeah. Um, what, what do you got? Uh, so my Twitter is a Wilking actor.
Um, I’ve got a website as well. I think it’s also just Wilking.ca. Um, seven siblings has a website called seven siblings theatre.ca, which currently has all the tickets and information available for the future theatre fest. Um, which we hope lots of people can come see and you can tell me all about what you think about the shows.
Please do. I 100% mean it. Uh, I just like having the conversations with people when they’re there.
Cause I feel like it’s actually, I don’t know, a lot of people don’t realize that they can do that. Stick around and talk. No, that’s true.
People talk to people that you can tell. Cause in a lot of shows, you know, the, the actors are doing their, their curtain calls and people are like, I gotta get to my car. Yeah.
You know, yeah. It’s a pet peeve. Yeah.
I think a lot of people have, it’s sometimes, I mean, sometimes there’s processing time, but if anyone feels like they don’t need any processing time, they can come chat with me. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for doing this. Yeah, no, thank you very much. It was really nice to meet you.
