#86 – Nick May & Jessica Bryson of Theatre Topikos

Theatre Topikos is proud to be bringing Wordplay to the 2017 Edinburgh Festival Fringe this August!

Wordplay is a dark comedy about a fag and his hag. No words are off limits between friends. Cut between their work environment and their debate, Jess and Nick, using dark humour (and a lot of naughty words) push the boundaries of their friendship as they question appropriate and appropriated word use within the dynamics of society and each other. Premiered at Toronto’s Gay Play Day 2014, remounted at the International Dublin Gay Theatre Festival in 2016. ‘Funny and thought-provoking, with mercurial dialogue and a sharp pop culture sensibility’ (Cate McKim, GayPlayDay). Nominated for Best New Writing (IDGTF). **** (TheOutMost.com).

http://theatretopikos.com/
@theatretopikos
@Jess_Bryson
@nickwmay

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Transcript

Transcript auto generated. 

Phil Rickaby
Welcome to Episode 86 of Stageworthy. I’m your host Phil Rickaby Stageworthy features conversations in Canadian theatre with artists of all stripes from actor to director to playwright and more. My guest this week are Nick Mae and Jessica Bryson of theatre Tropicos who are bringing their play wordplay to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival in August. If you’re listening for the first time, and you like what you hear, I would love it if you’d subscribe to the podcast. You can find Stageworthy on Apple podcasts, Google music or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you want to drop me a line, I would love to hear from you. You can find Stageworthy on Facebook and Twitter at stageworthypod. And you can find the website at stageworthypodcast.com.

We’re just talking about Edmonds or Edinburgh. And you’re taking the show is called wordplay work like Okay, so what’s workplace?

Nick May
wordplay is about the power of words and why it’s okay to say some words sometimes but not other times. It lives in a world of comedic realism. Like ultimately, why can I casually call up Jess a bitch but she can’t casually call me a faggot. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Jessica Bryson
Like that light fun, breezy topics like that.

Phil Rickaby
topics that are non like heavy and laden?

Jessica Bryson
No, I don’t think so. I think everyone’s fine with it. But no, it’s i because it came out of like, very real conversations we had had fights drug fights that we’d had in real life with each other for a long time. And that, you know, it’s, I’ll just say the language, it’s about a fg and a fg CAG. Like, how we became friends and why, why and that dynamic when everyone has language that they don’t like when everyone feels oppressed in some way? Why is it like why do we

Nick May
Why Why are certain things appropriated? Right?

Jessica Bryson
Okay, right. Like, it’s all about the times in the moments and, and we hash it out and have zero, I don’t think we can actually have any solutions.

Nick May
No, but I mean, that’s not what it’s about. It’s about why

Jessica Bryson
we didn’t solve a real problem. No, no, but like, how

Nick May
can these conversations happen with friends? And maybe this same conversation probably wouldn’t happen publicly, even though it kind of does, because you’re watching the show. But why? Like, why is it okay to even bring it up? Sometimes? Yeah.

Jessica Bryson
Yeah. And it’s all pretty dark. We laugh, we think

Nick May
it’s funny, it gets lost it. I mean, we got we had a pretty great success at the International Dublin gay Theatre Festival last year, the audience’s there were very supportive and appreciative of the show very different than Canadian audiences, which was really interesting. We, because it is, you know, ultimately, a conversation between two friends. It is something and we swear a lot in the show. The Canadian audiences were like, awkwardly laughing about the dirty words that we would use, right? It was shocking for them to hear us like go to certain places with those words, and like, you know, throw out content. And the Irish audiences were so much more invested in how we treated

Jessica Bryson
each other and how we had a straight character that we treat, like straight male, white male, and we treat him like shit. And they’re like, how are you treat him feel bad, like they’re so upset.

Nick May
I think my favourite thing that I heard about it was that like, so this third character who’s only in it for a hot sec, somebody’s like, it’s really their Cinderella story. Which is not the point of the story at all, but lovely, like lovely, that that’s how they interpreted the show, and that it was so different in different places, which is why it’s so exciting for us to bring it to Edinburgh and have again, a very different audience as well, still European, but so many people come to Edinburgh to see shows, I’m excited to see what you know, the the audience has a whole thing. So

Phil Rickaby
you were saying before we started that the show has sort of like a longer history, not just that Dublin festival, you guys have been working on it for a while. So when did the conversations that you guys we’re having start turning into a show? So

Nick May
114 So the conversations probably initially started like in 2011 and 2011 Maybe. And, you know, over the years, we would continually have these conversations as we got together and chatted

Jessica Bryson
with theatre people. So it was like I was ready to play.

Nick May
And there was a festival coming up that we wanted to submit to I think I approached us and said there’s a festival let’s write a show. This is my kind of initial idea. We sat down hashed it out. I think we probably initially tried to make it more of a more traditional theatre piece. And then we realised that it became far more interesting when we were just us being us and having these conversations and and it’s since evolved. And we are now I mean almost caricature Have ourselves

Jessica Bryson
and we brought on a great director who was like this show is about you guys so he like we break the fourth wall so much more now because he was like, Screw screw that fourth wall. It doesn’t make sense at this part in this part in this part break it because it’s not it doesn’t matter you don’t need it. Just great.

Nick May
Yeah, Gryphon Gryphon McKinnis was our director. And he’s fantastic. He helped guide the show to a much better place. It’s the original formation for the gay play festival here in Toronto in 2014 was a short piece, it was like 25 minutes long. And, you know, we sat on it after that after but for about a year, and said, Let’s, I don’t think this story is done. And the show lives in a very topical place as well. We talk about a lot of, you know, issues with feminism and LGBT rights and things that are constantly happening in real in our real lives. And so the show in each sort of evolution has changed and grown and now it’s an hour long one act. And that’s kind of where it sits now. But still, every time we do it, it grows. We’re excited to change it and to let it grow with

Jessica Bryson
I’m putting caulk in the show for sure.

Phil Rickaby
Well, that is that is that is a word that is very, very popular. With the right word to sit like we’ve heard that word a lot

Nick May
topical. It’s because it’s become more topical.

Jessica Bryson
Yeah, and we get to make fun of white supremacist by,

Nick May
you know, yeah, in the process of claiming it.

Phil Rickaby
So this this, when you’re saying that it was like you didn’t do a lot of it’s not a traditional show? How can you describe like, if somebody is going to see this show? And you’re saying it’s not a traditional? Yeah, how how, what can they expect when they So

Jessica Bryson
number one, if you come to Edinburgh to be the only time you get to

Nick May
see it, come to Edinburgh, it will be

Jessica Bryson
in a bar, it takes place in a bar space, which was perfect for us. I don’t know if everyone always loves that. But we’re like, great, because we actually chug a beer off the top and hand out alcohol as a part of it. Because the whole thing starts. Like we break time and space, it starts in the now. And then we’re like, let’s go back to that time. It’s supposed to take place at 4am.

Nick May
So like lighting wise, when you go to the show, it’s not the lights around the whole time. It’s yeah, it’s not traditional in the sense of you know, now the lights are down and the show is beginning. Nobody quite it starts with us out in the audience chatting with people about words. And like, you know, we would start in Dublin with, you know, what’s the worst thing that somebody’s ever called you? And then when possible we through some of those things into the show as well, which was pretty interesting. Yeah, you guys

Phil Rickaby
start? Are you sitting in the audience? You just like,

Jessica Bryson
they know that we’re, it’s our show. And we like like, Hey, come on in. Like we had posters or like that says like, what’s your thing, and it was called you and it’s all very casual and like, the show has not started yet. And then kind of when we’re ready, we get up on stage. We’re like, hey, and it starts and then

Nick May
we tell our story. But why why we’re here what we’re doing. And then kind of it morphs from that into

Jessica Bryson
the fourth walls and created and now we’re back in time, right in that place.

Nick May
With with allowances for breaks in between? Yeah,

Jessica Bryson
it’s like time is a little less of an issue for like, when is this happening is less of an issue for us? It’s like we’re using our history to have the conversation. But it definitely starts in a time space. First of all gets broken. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby
In terms of like creating shows, do you notice? When have you created a bunch of shows before? Are you is this like your first like, show that you’ve been creating?

Nick May
So this is our first collaborative piece together just lives in the improv world. So she’s always creating things all the time. And then for myself, besides things in theatre school, growing up, nothing. Nothing. I’d say notable. This is our, you know, the first thing that we’ve built from the ground up, as far as the show grows, it goes, Yeah,

Phil Rickaby
did you ever I mean, we all go through our theatre school or whatever that that that process is. And when I was in theatre school, they never talked about creating your own show, or anything like that. I don’t know if you guys found when you were doing that, or if you did do that. Where did the idea of creating your own work come up? No.

Jessica Bryson
I for sure it was already in improv and they were already eye rolling. But it was like a and I also already come from a different kind of theatre perspective. My dad was a high school drama teacher and I was like, I already kind of was like I had a sense of like, very, very few of us are going to work Shakespeare to Shakespeare. And the rest of us are going to have to learn how to produce and write and create and director on shows. If we want to work in theatre i At that point, so at that point in in Prague was already all about that. So I already had felt like well, most of us are going to have to do this and the only other time I felt like that was I’m encouraged cuz I did. What’s it called when you make it up? I’m just not improv but it’s device where I was like, this is improv but I guess we’re gonna keep it.

Phil Rickaby
Device theatre is it? You should just call it making it up. Yeah,

Nick May
yeah, yeah. But it’s become very, very it’s become very like bougie

Jessica Bryson
I was in school, what, 1010 years ago, 13 years ago and it was just as bougie and

Nick May
devised piece and I was like, this is

Jessica Bryson
improper. We’re gonna keep on doing it. Right? Yeah.

Phil Rickaby
Jump in and ask you a little bit about the eye roll about improv. Oh, is that you were like I do. I’ve been doing improv for five years. Anybody was like, oh my god,

Jessica Bryson
I come from I went to an arts high school. And then I came from theatre background really. And then started doing improv and loved it. Like I was like, Oh, I think there’s a misconception about what it is. People are taught really poorly and watch bad improv. Like, I think it’s, that’s what it is. Well, no, because it’s like, sure if your only concept is that one thing you saw at that bar that one time or that one improv class that your acting teacher taught you and you did, you know, park bench for an hour, and you’re like, this sucks,

Nick May
or or I watch Whose Line Is It Anyway? Yeah, in the 90s.

Jessica Bryson
And you’re like, and that’s it? And? And yeah, if that’s what you have, then I can see where you’d be like, it’s hacky. But, but also there’s like a there, people love to take themselves so seriously. And that was the worst in theatre school I found. And it was like, well, drama is where it’s at. And I’m like, Well, then why is comedy so hard? And wise? Why are you so scared of it? So I think the eyeroll for the most part came out of fear, yeah, fear of doing it. And then a genuine like, disconnect from not really knowing what it is. Because in my, in my experience, having done it, you know, for well over a decade now. It’s it’s theatre, and it’s, it’s, it’s mostly looking at long form is like you’ve seen the work that I do, it’s like plates we improvising plays. And most people couldn’t do that. And the dance between drama and comedy is so real. And there’s no comedy that doesn’t have drama inside of it.

Nick May
Well, it’s so different as well. And I think that there’s a learning for even within the arts within the theatre community. I mean, there’s improv as a tool within what we do. And then there’s improvisation on art. Right. And this is something that I think there’s a big divide.

Jessica Bryson
But it was very, it was very heavy. I roll you know, like, you’re doing that, like it was the only thing you know how, like in drum programmes are like, you cannot do a play outside of the. But they’re like, oh, improv, do whatever you want. Whatever. But like it was very dismissive. I

Nick May
wasn’t allowed to do improv, you didn’t even try.

Phil Rickaby
Because one of the same theatres

Jessica Bryson
I went to UBC, and then I didn’t do the, I guess I started in the traditional acting. Dream. And then I went and did just a theatre degree.

Nick May
I went to an acting Conservatory in New York called AMDA, the American musical and dramatic Academy. Yeah, so that was my I mean, in my experience, they’re just back to your original question about, you know, where we are told or encouraged to do our own work. I mean, it was always said but never explained. So it was, you know, when you and this is, I know, it’s a different place in New York, there’s a lot more theatre, but also a lot more people there. So it was, you know, it’s gonna be difficult to find work. So you know, what you should do is create your own work. And there’s a full stop there, there was no explanation of, like, how do you create your own work? Where do you start? What do you do? How do you produce?

Phil Rickaby
It fear school, just start teaching that stuff we would have like, it’s like, you know,

Jessica Bryson
what, how come in high school, we didn’t learn how to do our taxes. What was the point of all right?

Nick May
Teach me some life skills, not what sine and cosine and math. I don’t I don’t know what that means.

Phil Rickaby
But it’s funny when I was in Theatre School in 90, something like the whole idea of producing your work was like, if you weren’t gonna make it.

Jessica Bryson
Of course, that was when there was government funding. And like, you know, it

Phil Rickaby
was all like, maybe, okay, maybe, you know, you could, you know, you’re gonna go to your audition, you’re gonna do safety strap for you do this sort of thing. Or, you know, if you’re doing solo work, or you’re going on the Fringe Festival, it was never like,

Nick May
you could always be the fringe on the pat on the back. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby
It was like, and now it’s like, these are essential parts. Yeah.

Jessica Bryson
I have friends that are very successful actors, unlike us, and like book TV, and you know, or if

Nick May
you were in a commercial,

Jessica Bryson
they cut me out. But they still had to pay me so I think I really won that commercial checkmark. No, but they still you know, they’re they even my agent have a great agent and they’re just like, Yeah, every now and then you need to go back and do a play or go into fringe or, like Reek, especially in Toronto, I think there’s nothing wrong with, like just reconnecting with some aspect of life where or whatever and reminding yourself that and my agent loves to do improv, they’re like, because now that is a huge part of, at least for television and film, and commercial work. So not necessarily for traditional theatre, but for that work. They’re like, and we want an improv funny type or comedy type? Or can you improvise these lines, where they’ll give you a scenario and not the words and they want to know that you can, like live in it? And so it’s funny, because now that skill is, is important for that stuff. But I think it’s kind of in who’s who’s making it, like, No, you know, like, what is that red flag?

Phil Rickaby
And it’s all about definition of what is success in the business. And I think, you know, when I was in theatre school, this success was work consistently, or, you know, get a bunch of jobs in a year. And that was like,

Jessica Bryson
I mean,

Phil Rickaby
but it was never there. Were there were alternate things that were talked about. I think now people are talking about self producing, but never really about how, yeah,

Nick May
because it’s really hard. Well, and it’s taken me or like, after graduating from theatre school, it took me a long time before I started actually doing it, because especially without having those tools readily available. It was like, like, I know, I want to do things, but where do I start? And you put it off, and you put it off and put it off? Because it’s, it’s hard. Yeah. And then now, finally, in the past few years is where we’re finally making it happen. I think we isn’t me and Jeff, but but then also, too, you have

Jessica Bryson
to decide I struggle with this. So I don’t have the answer. But it’s like, what, what is success for you? Right? Like, like, for us like talking about Edinburgh? Like, I was pretty reluctant to do it, because I had heard horror stories about losing money. And I didn’t want I didn’t want to lose a bunch of money. But it was like, you know, do we think we’re gonna get famous for doing this was just very much so reason why a lot of people do and grow. I do not think that no, You never know why we’re going. I can guarantee you we want. You never know. But that’s not why we’re doing it. And it was like we’re doing it because it’s an adventure.

Nick May
It’s an adventure. We both we both. I mean, just going back to even the evolution of this show really quickly. This was like super excited for Jess because this was stepping out of her improv world into scripts going back to scripted work, which is something that she was terrified about it first. For me, I live in it. And I was like, it’s fine. And and then I’ll talk about me doing improv things afterwards. But like how that’s my like, level of comfort isn’t there? Whereas Yeah, but we balance each other out in that way because of it. I digress.

Jessica Bryson
No, yeah. Why what is successful for us doing this is doing

Nick May
it is doing it is

Jessica Bryson
doing it? And hopefully people like it, and we get good reviews. Yeah.

Nick May
And after doing it in Dublin, we I mean, we saw that there was something really exciting about bringing it to a new audience and I say a new audience because I think that’s a challenge sometimes in Toronto theatre is that we live in these like cyclical art circles sometimes. And if it’s not your family and friends, who are you really reaching out to to get to see your show. And so having truly unique people coming to see our show in another country is so exciting. We both love travel as well. So it’s like win win win as far as going and doing the show there

Phil Rickaby
was the run in Dublin was that was it several shows? Was it? Yeah, it was 10

Jessica Bryson
it was like a week, like every night for a week and two Mondays.

Nick May
I think over two and it was a lot. It was a lot.

Jessica Bryson
Yeah, it was like it wasn’t like Saturday to Saturday kind of maybe

Nick May
maybe it was to madness. Yeah, that was I mean, that’s a that’s a pretty good run. Yeah. Especially if you’re going to another country and doing a show. You don’t want to just go and do it once or twice. Like you want to like let yourself live into it. Let it grow still while you’re there, like trying out a new space.

Jessica Bryson
Yeah, we got great reviews, people liked it. We didn’t get huge crowds because we were trying to we were competing with very Irish plays during the 100 year anniversary of the rebellion and stuff. And so there was a play about Oscar while there was a play about about the rebellion, but the rebellion was the one year anniversary of the referendum of the gay marriage. And so it was a play about that. It gets a lot of Irish things.

Nick May
Yeah, but but still good about what we think put into it and got out of it at the end.

Phil Rickaby
What was your What was your, your goal? Like, you know, you’re not in this doing it and ready to get famous? Always. What was it going to Dublin? Was it to do it in that in front of a different audience, or was it like what was

Jessica Bryson
your question? I feel like initially, when it’s always Nick comes to me because I will never find these things because I’m too afraid to make these things happen. So he’s like, we’re doing this thing. I’ve signed us up. I think it’s actually helpful. Conversation? For sure Ireland, I think was because he’s his partner’s Irish it was how can I get a free trip to Ireland?

Nick May
I think the initial amount of free trip but like how can I how can justify Ireland,

Jessica Bryson
but then it became I’m going to give us a secondary. It was really and it was fascinating. And we learned so much by doing it. It was what, what is actually the value of the show, because we do believe in it. And we do really enjoy it. And then it became really an on the spot like we did one show. And we’re like, we have to change our marketing we have it’s like we got we have to get new posters. We had to get new like, it was like, no, this doesn’t work. And it was like Canadian audiences and Irish workers are completely different, which was quite exciting, actually. Yeah, it was like, like getting there the first night explaining our show having these things and we’re like, wow, what what attracts Canadians to especially queer feminist? Theatre? Comedy is very different than what attracts Irish. For sure. This is my boyfriend coming in with groceries? Are you going to get this out of the podcast? So we’re going to keep on using and keep on go? Honestly, just so that the listeners understand. My boyfriend’s really good. And he went grocery shopping. Anyway. Yeah, so I think that was really exciting about Ireland. I don’t think that was our initial thoughts. Feelings are concerned when we went there. Like, I think we kind of I was like, I don’t know, like, what is gonna what is it going to be like, but it was fascinating. It was like, we should have honestly just had cuts talks to fg on the card. And people have been like, I’m gonna be there like that, whatever.

Nick May
Yeah, one of the really interesting exciting things about the Irish audiences is they say they’re gonna come they come and I didn’t believe it at first. But I originally reached out to rob Salerno, because he had a show that went I think 22 shows that went to that same Festival, and I asked him for a little bit of advice. And he said, you know, you have to get out there and talk to people in the streets and tell them to come to your show. Otherwise, they was like, okay, that’s that’s always the case with any type of fringe. But he was like, if they say they’re gonna come, they will show up. And I was like, Okay, sure. And it happened. It works. I mean, we were out a bar.

Jessica Bryson
This because it was it’s a queer festival. And so we were like, the fun Canadian, with anyone at home cantos, like Nick and I are about the same height. And we’re very loud and very sadly,

Nick May
two feet shorter.

Jessica Bryson
But we had this very fun dynamic. At these, there’s two, essentially two gay bars, and we would like corner people and talk to them. And yeah, there was like several people that like in Ireland, you forget how fucking small Ireland is. So they’re like from, you know, cork or carry, like, driving into Dublin to the only gay bars. And they’re like, we’ll we will come and then they did. And they will drop weed. There’s some from Northern Ireland who like was like, I’m coming like that international border was on our way, but like, did

Phil Rickaby
not say that. They’re going to do that. If they say they’re coming, because you know, yeah, I mean, if you’ve been in a Fringe Fest, we say sure. I’m going to be yourself. And

Jessica Bryson
it’s my way of making them stop talking.

Phil Rickaby
Yeah. Just to jump to a different topic for a second. I’m curious about we talked a little bit about about your your background. Yeah. And your dad being a theatre teacher. I want Nick, I want to talk a little bit about about your background, what brings you to theatre? But I’m also curious about if your folks were behind the idea of you pursuing theatre as a as a career, oh. One thing to have a teaching theatre? Yes. The thing to,

Jessica Bryson
um, I think my parents are very supportive. I’m very lucky. I think my mom cringes at our lack of a pension on a daily basis. My my, my partner just got us medical, and she’s like, Oh, okay, well go to the dentist. Like, you know, like she said it. I think that’s tough. Like because being an educator is a much more much more steady life. In a lot of ways, but I think my dad is like, living vicariously through us like I think I think he Yeah, they’re very supportive. They love you love my parents love Nick and Martin, who was his partner. And I think they’re like, go do it. Like they’re very like, go do it. Do it now. When what else? What else is there to do these things? Yeah. Um, so yeah, like I think all in all very supportive. I think my mom struggles with the why of it sometimes. But like, in the most like, well go do it thing. And I think my dad would if we said, hey, Neil Bryson, do you want to come play a part? In our show? He’ll be like, when where? I’ll see you like, why you know what I mean? So I think I’m quite lucky for that. And also, my dad taught me I’m like pretty well trained.

Phil Rickaby
You say that your mom struggles with a why is that? The why of why do you have to do this? Or is that she would

Jessica Bryson
never do. She’s like terrified of public speaking. And although very funny and loud, so I don’t know where that’s coming from, but like she she wouldn’t make those choices. So in the sense of like, anything that you’re like, I don’t, I struggle with the why of a corporate life or being a corporate lawyer. I’m like, I get it. You make a lot of money, but like, love, like, why you live in Newmarket lit out like, why like, I was doing a corporate teaching improv in Aurora yesterday. And I was like, ah, like, why would you live here? But not to judge or not to do well, no, but it’s like, you know, people judge art artists for the exact same thing all the time. And it’s, I think it’s just, you can support it and get it, but you can’t get it because it’s not something you you yourself would want, right? So I think that’s really kind of her only struggles, it’s not something that she would have ever chosen for herself. Not even that genus, not that there’s such thing as truly as a straightener. I think we all have hard careers and hard choices. And when you know, the freedom I feel is then the shackle of not making the money. Like you know what I mean? Like, the structure of this is the lack of money for that is the freedom of this isn’t offered, you know, like it’s all part choices. But that’s honestly, I can’t complain to my parents or they’re very supportive people.

Phil Rickaby
Nick, why did you choose the theatre?

Nick May
So I don’t know my family themselves are not theatre people. But you’re the baby boy, they love you. And yeah, but I’ve always had some, like, I’ve always been interested in entertaining it my like, earliest memory of doing it was I used to memorise commercials when I was like five years old. And I remember my aunts and uncles coming over. And my mom and dad were like, Do it Do do the commercial. And I did this commercial. And they were all because I said it verbatim. And they were laughing and I had no idea why. And it was years later that I found out that I was quoting an OB commercial. And then I think the first kind of creative thing that I put my energy into, I was in eighth grade. And I wanted to I was obsessed with Charlie Brown Christmas. And I did a staged version for the kindergarten kids, not me, but not just me. I like fully staged it, and like, transcribed it from the actual show itself. And we performed it for the kindergarten kids and they loved and that kind of just kept on fueling fire. And so I would do some community theatre and then high school theatre. And then after that, I was like, I, you know, go bigger, go home. So I went to New York City and spend a billion dollars on tuition for school, and then came back to Canada and had like ins and outs of theatre because I was caught between corporate life stuff and trying to pay off massive loans from going to school in New York, and then little bits and bobs. And now I’m living a more creative life. Today. My family is still very supportive. I mean, they they do and don’t get it because they’re like Union type people are like, you’re like Jeff said, We’d like pensions and you know, you want something that you’re working towards that is going to have financial stability, but they’ve come to understand and accept and realise that I’m doing exciting things. And I’m doing well for myself. And I do lots of odd types of jobs, with and without theatre. And yeah, I think at this point, now they’re excited about it. They’re excited to hear when I tell them the new, interesting thing that I’m doing.

Phil Rickaby
Do you remember what the firt your first inkling of what theatre was?

Nick May
My first inkling of what want to

Phil Rickaby
see a show? Is that because, you know, the idea of like performing a play for your classmates comes from somewhere.

Nick May
Yeah, I don’t I don’t have a strong memory of it. I’m sure like, there was probably some school field trips somewhere to see something but I don’t actually know I live. I live. It’s all coming back to me. I had my my brother in law’s sister used to work for stage West in Mississauga. And they do theatre there. And I remember seeing the first show that I ever remember seeing there was a musical version of Jack in the beanstalk. And I saw it and I loved it. And I used to remember seeing the songs afterwards. I was about to do it. I’m not going to I still remember some of the worst of them. And that’s the first thing I remember ever seeing. That’s like pre you know, my award winning Charlie Brown production. And I guess maybe that’s the thing that I realised that theatre was.

Jessica Bryson
My aunt took me to see Phantom when I was five. Remember the chandelier?

Nick May
Well, yeah, that’s Sunday. That’s the chandelier mask.

Jessica Bryson
But my dad my dad was I knew my dad directed plays like because that’s what he did. When I got the job when I was three, so three There was always

Phil Rickaby
have you seen played before Phantom? Or was that was,

Jessica Bryson
that was the big the big first play I saw but like, I remember my dad put on guys and balls when I was like four

Nick May
Did you see it? Or was just a bag that went to work with guys, you know, like I

Jessica Bryson
remember, you know when you have a young memories that you’re it’s hard to remember if it’s actually memory or if it’s a picture. So I can’t remember if I actually saw it. Or if I remember seeing like a video of it. Yeah, but I but I knew what dad did Dad directed high school student was like, that’s what Dad Yeah, but that was so young

Nick May
memory hit weird when you get older. Yeah, well, because you don’t know, don’t you remember

Jessica Bryson
start becoming memories of the memories. So it’s hard to remember. Like, if that’s at like when you’re like, oh, and then this happened. And just like, there’s no way for you remember that. It’s the things that people have told you that

Phil Rickaby
you think that you think you remember? Yeah. It’s funny, because you know, we all have, you know, I’ve my parents have always been, you know, to make sure you know, take care of yourself, make sure that you’re you know, the job, you know, I hate this job. It’s destroying my soul. You know, it’s a means to an end.

Nick May
What is the end was there.

Phil Rickaby
And for them, it’s like, retirement. And it’s like, there, there’s this whole, like, a generation of do the job that you hate. Until you turn 60 Then you got a pension and then you can do what you like. Yeah, but

Jessica Bryson
if anything, what you should do is turn what you love into a job. So you start to hate it. And another job that has a pension, my life

Nick May
lessons by Jesper, and then dialogue, but like I want to work when I’m 60 I want to you know, I mean, I might be poor then but I’ll remember going to fucking Edinburgh and performing for strangers when I was in my early 30s. Like that’s, that’s something that I look forward to right and

Jessica Bryson
say World War Three is coming. doesn’t know who knows. But

Nick May
I will say that I just said something earlier about, you know, now’s the time for us to go and do this. And I remember when we were in Dublin performing, we met with my partner’s uncle who performs and he said to us, he was like, do it. Like we said, we were like, Yeah, we went to Edinburgh, he’s like, do it like, there’s no reason not to. He was like, you’ll regret it if you don’t like, if you have the opportunity, fucking take it, you know, and it was like for him to, you know, to who’s had a career and a life like doing theatre and other and other jobs as well, for him to give that advice just as like, yeah, like, Why? Why would we not? Yeah, yeah.

Phil Rickaby
When, I mean, there’s something to be said for when you’re doing a show at home. And you do have your family and friends to come see that show. You hope that more people than just your family and friends are going to come to you realise

Nick May
who your true friends are.

Phil Rickaby
And but then when you go away from that, and you’re like, in just away from home and where it’s comfortable. What’s it like, being in a strange place where you really don’t know that many people and trying to get them to come to your show?

Nick May
I think for me, it’s a exciting, but be I’ve got nothing to lose. So to be silly in front of somebody and be like, come see our show. I’m never gonna see that person again. I don’t care what they think of me there.

Jessica Bryson
Also easier because you kind of had a point if you perform enough, where they’re like, Yeah, okay, I’ll see your show. You know what I mean? So it’s an it’s an it becomes hard to convince those people like whereas, you know, I’ve never seen it before. I’ve never seen Kenny it’s a lot of people have never seen Canadian performance floor or we don’t I mean, like it’s, you know, dazzling and exotic. Yeah, like, I’m like, who knows? And also what we did before. It’s not like I’m curious too with Edinburgh. It’s a whole other beast. Like, it really is. It’s not the same as what we did in Dublin. different culture, different expectations, different amount of people ring stakes. Like there’s more people, but then there’s more shows. And there’s more like, impetus to like, like, everyone’s like hustling, hustling, hustling. Whereas this was like we just kind of had to show up at the same to gay bars every every night and be like come see the show. There was

Nick May
more gay bars. We just didn’t go to them just

Jessica Bryson
Well, we went to the two but yeah, whereas this is a little it’s like harder but also easier because in this we’re a part of the free fringe and of the Canada when 50 So there’s like a people are promoting for us on some regard. And we

Nick May
learned a lot about promoting ourselves from drinking previously. So yeah, it’s more

Jessica Bryson
about point like I like it’s less about flooding everything with like handles. It’s more about being like, please come like, Hey, I’m

Nick May
having this more meaningful like discussion and conversation. Hey, handing somebody a postcard unless it’s a really intriguing postcard, but like handing somebody a postcard is not as effective as you know, talking to somebody about what makes your show. Fucking great.

Jessica Bryson
Yeah. Yeah, so I mean, like, who knows, we might perform to nobody, for half the time we’re there. And we might go down for everyone. Like we might be sold out every single time. We, I think the thing for us is, like we quite legitimately might make no money and just lose money. A lot of people do, but it

Nick May
won’t be we’ve done we’ve structured it in a way that we’re not gonna lose a tonne. It’ll just be a really expensive vacation where we got to perform if that’s the case, and that’s fine. We actually just did I mean, every show has its own different way of fundraising, I would say that I would mention that we just did one last week, on May 4, we had an event called shitshow. It was a queer Comedy Night, which was a fundraiser for us going to Edinburgh. And it speaking, this is the Segway separate thing. But we now saw the success of that and are going to start a monthly shit show here in the city as well. Just in terms of, you know, what we’re doing as a collective together and building communities artistically. Whether it be locally or internationally. Something else we’re doing. Yeah, yeah. We also might lose money. Shatter

Phil Rickaby
is this this is this is both of either your first time doing Edinburgh. So how do you? I mean, in terms of preparing to do it, not just like the financial aspects, but like, going to Edinburgh, which is, you know, the biggest festival in the world? Yeah. How? What kind of game plan do you have to go in with,

Jessica Bryson
we had meeting well, so we’ve met with some people that we know that had successful free friend show last year to kind of get some sense of a game plan. And it sounds like from that we’ve kind of gathered some things like, you just can’t bring your same old poster, like, it’s got to be, like, has star ratings on instant, like stuff like, you wouldn’t necessarily do here. So we’re there’s that plan, like there’s, we’re recapping on our promotional materials, so it is more effective. And we’ve just,

Nick May
we’ve met and talked to as many people as we can, that we know, within our own networks that have done it, but what to expect what to do, what does work, what doesn’t work, and different people have been very helpful in that way. Which has been great. And then secondly, to that doing the things that we always do for any type of production anywhere, even if it’s local, like figuring out what our budgets look like, and, and all the fun stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby
In terms of promotion, like not having the same old poster. But like you got out on the street. Hawking the show, it’s a little bit different. I’ve heard then, like doing the Toronto fringe or even like Edmonton fringe. Yeah, it’s very, you have to have a hook. Yeah.

Jessica Bryson
Yeah. And we like, and especially what we learned from Ireland, is we have to be more rude. Like, because our show is rude. And it’s a dark comedy, and it’s a night and it’s in a bar for a reason we drink we drink on stage, we drink real alcohol on stage.

Nick May
No, no, that’s kind of secret. It’s a

Jessica Bryson
secret and like, eight like to a point where there was times when I’m like, maybe we should switch it out for juice, like,

Nick May
we tried juice juice is not the answer. Because we like we polish off it, we polish off a bottle of wine in the show. And the juice gives me so much gut rot, it’s not worth it. Just and that goes back to what you asked her what you had asked earlier about what makes it not traditional, and keeping it alive and like allowing it to be fluid and change and stuff like that. And you know, getting having a little bit of alcohol on stage helps with that. I think I think not being afraid of doing it,

Jessica Bryson
too. I actually think it makes it more dangerous. Like, you know, talk about the excitement or improv, there’s danger in improv. And I think a lot of traditional quote unquote theatre would be like, Oh, it’s grape juice, or water and purple dye or whatever. And we’re like, no, no, like, we’re drinking a bottle of wine on stage that’s tucked in my butt for like the first 10 minutes. Because that show,

Phil Rickaby
it’s it you were talking about, like breaking the fourth wall. So are you leaving notes or breaking the fourth wall, you’re like making eye contact, talking to people to go out and like,

Nick May
at the beginning of the show we do at the beginning, we’re talking directly to the audience. And then after that, there’s a shift. And it’s not a clear shift. It’s not a lighting or sound cue shift. It’s a shift in the way that we’re talking to each other. Yeah. And that’s when we stop with that, and shift and it’s something that is, I mean, critiques and comments that we’ve gotten from people that have seen the show, it’s like, oh, yeah, I didn’t know like, if like this was just an intro or what was happening still. And we’re like, that’s what we want from you. We wanted, we wanted you to be unsure. We wanted you to question that. Right. And that was a choice.

Jessica Bryson
Yeah. And we do have a third character that doesn’t say anything, and who can’t come to the festival, reworking that we might also make that an audience member like they might not know that there is He? Is he

Phil Rickaby
the guy who isn’t saying anything at all? Is he on stage?

Jessica Bryson
So, so it’s actually played by the guy with the groceries or there. It’s the one straight male character. And it’s actually the whole show was based around where we met, which was a job 20 For our restaurant that we started working on. And there was one person we genuinely really didn’t like that we we worked with a couple of like, yeah, we meld it a couple of people. We didn’t like it to one character, who we shit on. We’re like bad people. Like we’re good friends. But we’re also we kind of play shady villains in it. Yeah. And we treat him like shit. And he’s like this strange character who just kind of honestly spent most he doesn’t say anything. He spends most of the playoffs just training.

Nick May
And so yeah, he

Jessica Bryson
and then he has one beautiful speech of a language and privilege at the end. But yeah, we might make an audience member read that. Yes,

Nick May
we’re reworking that we don’t show now.

Jessica Bryson
Yeah. But because it’s a it’s a fun counterpoint to this. I think we don’t think that there’s a right and wrong answer in the end of this when it comes to language and friends and comfortability, but that it is changing and growing. And I think that’s how we play that out. And the realm of the fourth wall, I certainly did shows where I look directly at someone in the eyes, because we’re having a show. And it’s just like, I see you there. And because it’s a it’s it’s scripted, but there is always room for improv in our show. And I like that we don’t have a light change, like the house lights are up for it. Yeah, like we have them on at half when people come in. We leave them that way. The stage lights are on. And we leave them that way. Because I think we like the idea that like, no, no, this is yours. This is ours. We’re all here right now. We brought you into our memory. Yeah. And but we also asked you for yours, and we get to a big fight at the end. And people have told us words and we put them in at the end, we change up the words that we call each other. Because we can. So we do and then we leave by walking off the stage and then we come back on for the bow but then yeah, it’s we were

Nick May
we’re bouncing around a lot. Yeah, the this is the way we talk. This is what we do. Yeah, back to really quickly. You were talking about like marketing and like doing the show and how we’re going to kind of try to intrigue people while we’re there. And in Edinburgh as well is. And this is something we started doing in Dublin is having interactive posters, posters that people were writing on and people were engaging with so so they would have questions like what’s the most hurtful thing anybody’s ever said to you? What’s the like thing that only a friend can call you? Or, and different posters that said different things. And when people would come into our space, or if we just had the posters up somewhere, and we were there, we would ask people, we’d have sharpies with us. We did like write on them. So we’re going to play with that idea a little bit in Edinburgh as well in promoting the show. And maybe that’ll be Yeah, well, T shirts where people can write those things on us in the streets as well. So we’re playing with that way of, of enticing people to see the show.

Phil Rickaby
Nice. I always find that the the to get back to that, that breaking the fourth wall thing. I did a show last summer, where my director was like, okay, so you this is just you and you’re talking to the audience. So you’re gonna have to, like talk to them. So make eye contact with them. And as somebody who was trained, you know, not to not to, that was like a terrifying like the idea of like, okay, so now I’m going to talk to this person, specifically, I’m going to look them in the eye. And the first time I did it, I could not do it.

Jessica Bryson
It’s such it’s so powerful. Like, especially from improvisers perspective, and I like I do a lot of hosting of improv shows. There’s something about like, looking someone in the eyes and being like, Don’t fuck with me, like, don’t fuck with my show. We’re like, this is you like, it’s quite powerful. And it is scary. But I think things like all scary things once you get to the other side and realise there’s power in that scary thing. It’s, and it does really you can set the audience.

Phil Rickaby
Yeah, well, that’s that’s one thing that I found is the first time because it was my first time ever performing it. It was terrifying to look somebody in the eye the second show, when I gotten over that shit, and I was able to look people in the eye. It was just like this feeling between like me and them, like seeing them which was which was new.

Nick May
Yeah, for this show. The reason why it wasn’t daunting to me and I feel the same thing as far as like theatre experience and training and everything like that. It’s like you don’t do that. And for this show, because it starts with us already talking to the audience members. And because there’s no shift, and because at the beginning, we are playing ourselves and telling our story. It feels very naturally good in our show to do that. Additionally, like one big challenge again, this like goes back to theatre and training and all that stuff is our and this was a major note from our directors at the beginning because we are us. Don’t be on and don’t be like performing it just

Phil Rickaby
just that just just

Nick May
how it’s hard because we are always on

Jessica Bryson
especially when we’re together. I realised this we did this that show recently and I had people from my other life my improv life coming so Pete Oh no you from different perspectives and different places. And I’m like, oh my god, I talk differently when we’re next to each other. Not necessarily we’re having a coffee, but like when people around us potential of them laughing at us, we talk differently. Yes. Like, it’s like fast on and it’s like, I become sassy or you become like, everything’s just a little bit more heightened. So it’s actually work for us to like, reel it in. That’s the hard part is like, what’s the natural version of that? That’s not

Nick May
willing grace?

Phil Rickaby
Grace? How do you? How do you figure out like, how do you go from? Oh, do you like, realise? How do you realise that you being on? And then,

Nick May
you know,

Jessica Bryson
you know, when you’ve allowed yourself to become just a little bit too much? Like, we’re all gonna put on a show like, yeah, and I think it’s, it’s a, it’s reminding yourself that the tone of your voice, you’ve allowed yourself a tone, that is fun, and you’re getting like, you have, you know, what it is, you know, the the old saying, follow the fun, you actually cannot stop doing that you have to like, if I follow the fun to the endpoint, which is like my ego satisfaction of laughter, I’m going to actually take away from the further point, which is the reality and so I need to like, pull it back. i Yeah,

Nick May
it’s really nice, though, to really live in that realism, when you do find that place, and you do escape from the performing and the on. And it does feel really good to look audience members nowadays and connect. Yeah, it’s gonna be

Phil Rickaby
really hard, though to like go from, you know, good. We, as performers, we what we have that this is what we do, yeah, we perform and then to, you know, have to be just yourself, which can be

Nick May
a very difficult thing. Yeah, well, especially when we act, right, we don’t want to be ourselves.

Jessica Bryson
Of course, we’re playing ourselves. Here playing ourselves six years ago, six years ago, and heightened but, but also, it only were six years ago, specifically drunk in the middle of the night angry. But having a good time, like, it’s that weird thing of it’s acting, but it’s capturing a time, but also, we start when you’re playing a host self, right, you’re a little bit more heightened. So it’s like trying to know that if you if you go too far, in your post self, you’ll have a hard time connecting to your real self that you’re also playing, you’re gonna turn into in the past. So it’s a good acting challenge, too. Because then you are asking the question is like, who am I? Who am I in that time? You know what, it is still a character, but it’s the character of you at a time in a space having a very specific kind of conversation. But also, it’s intimate, but also we’re supposed to be at work. It’s not a lair. It’s

Nick May
really it’s really weird for friends who have seen the show who are like us are awful. And we’re like, it’s not really us. It’s kind of us. But maybe we are a little bit off of everybody is awful. Yeah.

Jessica Bryson
But also we do address that in the show. Like it is like the worst version of ourselves, which is like, not only did this workplace make us the worst version of ourselves, but you know, it is that place time place, but it also is that version of yourself that you’re like, No, I’m allowed to be bad because I’m exhausted. And I’m drunk. And I’m in charge. Right. So I’m allowed to be a little weird little dictator in this,

Nick May
which also, which also in the show allows us to have the conversations. Yeah. Which comes kind of full circle. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby
Now earlier, we were talking about the difference between performing this show for a Canadian audience who get hung up on the bad words. Yeah. And the Dublin audience that really sort of paid attention to the relationship between you.

Jessica Bryson
Yeah, it was so fascinated because I will we did it. We did it for we did a preview for the people that work with the theatre that I work at. And Theatre Company, Toronto here I hand and my friend we have these anecdotes at the beginning. And I was like, Oh, these bitches, no problem, basic, basic pitches, and she was like, pitches seemed really like harsh language. Ireland, they’re like, Yeah, you there are bitches like it was just like, so complex pitches is nothing cones is nothing. He was just absolutely the things

Nick May
we would say to each other in the show. Like, afterwards, people were like, it. I don’t know how I felt it was like, you can’t just calm so much. Whereas in Ireland, like I remember, somebody comes like, No, I’ve had the same conversations with my friends. Yeah.

Jessica Bryson
But where, yeah, whereas they got so much more caught up that we were, we were being mean, we mean, and we were being mean to this other person, but also mean like, we get mean to each other. Like, at a certain point, we get into a real fight, where we’re we started trying to hurt each other.

Nick May
But it’s good that they felt and saw those things, right. Because like, Why do words have power? Why like,

Jessica Bryson
Why does it not matter when part but then now it’s switched. But also like, I think, like there’s a pivotal point in our fight where I call him a faggot. Mm. And that got a in Toronto remember that point like it was? Okay. has happened, the straight woman has called her gay friend. And he’s like, we’ve said awful things. And I think I call a fig at a different point in the play, but because, but it’s not a fight, so doesn’t matter. And this actually had like a, like a stop moment. And the audience was like, Oh, she went there. Like it’s happened. Yeah. And in Ireland, we didn’t have that same thing. But it was like, but there was a point where we’re, but like, there was, I’m trying to think like, it’s like when we were just get serious with each other. And they’re just like, oh, like they’ve got a button in the series. Yeah. Like,

Nick May
they’re really talking really talking. They’re not they’re not like, it’s not fun

Jessica Bryson
anymore. It’s not funny. And like, it’s not games anymore. Yeah. And you could feel them have that. And that’s they’re talking about these like, Oh, your friendships gotten to this turn. And it’s the same thing, really. But it was the language, like the Canadians got caught up in the language.

Nick May
Irish got caught up with the seriousness.

Jessica Bryson
Yeah, yeah. And it was interesting, too, because like, our promotion had to change because in Canada, it worked perfectly. Just like, I didn’t know I was gay before they like I shouldn’t say it like that. Like, it’s trivial. But it was like, the all the promotion was much more about like, those serious moments. Like,

Nick May
like, I was teased for being gay for being gay. Yeah. Before I even knew myself. And in Canada, that was like, more like, bit like fish is equivalent to a female dog.

Jessica Bryson
And are under like, so like, but if I think if in Ireland, we’d had like, content vague Hank have chat, they’d be like, great. Like that, that we like, understand what that is. Buttons. Yeah, honestly. And I, you should have

Phil Rickaby
like, and five buttons just like whatever.

Jessica Bryson
Honestly. That’s the way to go. Because honestly, making buttons a huge pain in the ass, but yeah, thanks for nothing but. But like, Yeah, like that. It’s interesting, because I think it’s, it’s like, you know, we’re a much more PC culture. Yeah, we are so much more delicate

Nick May
about PC or like, live in a bubble world sometimes

Phil Rickaby
performed it anywhere. Not Toronto, aside from Dublin, like any other community? Because I’m kind of curious about whether or not that’s a Canadian thing, or whether it’s a Toronto thing.

Nick May
I think, I think I think in Toronto, it’s heightened? Yeah, sure. I think

Jessica Bryson
that you know, I think yeah, and I think it’s tough to that you’ve also only performed in safe places, right? So I don’t know how interested I actually am in performing it in unsafe spaces in the sense of, if you’re not willing to, like, if you don’t fundamentally think women rights matter, or queer rights matter, then us yelling at each other is just gonna be like, Yeah, I agree. Then what’s then then it’s, it kind of is a show that is meant for people that are ready to have the harder conversations, which is the minutiae, right. Like it what is okay and isn’t okay is a minutia conversation. And it’s really I think we come down to it’s about intent. And intent matters. And like, the only straight character or male kerastraight male character is an ally, like, like, it’s like, he was not the problem, right? He is an ally. And I think

Nick May
but and then I think that this maybe is almost, maybe I’m saying too much here with this. But like, the fact that we shut him down as an ally, I think is very

Jessica Bryson
tribal of it. Which is interesting. Toronto, love it in Ireland was like, come on, I

Nick May
think I think Toronto, it’s super poignant is that the people don’t want to hear what they don’t want to hear, right? Like, when what people sometimes want to like pitch to bitch. And sometimes people have super strong opinions about things that they don’t want an answer to.

Jessica Bryson
I think too, right now, everyone’s a little sick of the allies voice like, it’s like, no, just listen, we’re gonna Yeah, and I think, you know, talk about just being in slightly different places to write, like, you know, in, in, in like, all cultures, like, you know, maybe that the the way that in Ireland, you can speak so freely puts them in an advantage. But also, you know, gay marriages, it’s only been legal for, like, two years there, and only a year when we were there. So in some ways they’re behind, right? And I think so it’s not about good or bad or right and wrong. It’s about what brings where, for where you’re at. And I think for Toronto, it was much more like, language, right? Yeah. Like this language exists. And we do do this like, because we did do that. And it’s, it is the private conversations. You know, and I’ve certainly had friends be like Phil’s words shouldn’t exist. I’m like, but they do and we say them to each other. And you can pretend that they don’t, but we do. And there you can say, Don’t reclaim that word, get rid of that word. But we do reclaim like we like so it’s you know, and in our lives much more like less about the reclaiming thing so much is like yeah, we’re all just gonna say it. Yeah, and I’ve feeling Scotland will be more similar and Certainly I was in Australia last year. That is also very true there. It’s funny how I got so offended in Australia all the time. And I saw it like crazy. And I was like, You’re not to call me cut you. He’s allowed to call me a cut. But you’re not, not you. And it’s, you know, but yeah, I know any other community. I don’t know. I feel like I am not interested in dealing with people who are still dealing with basic homophobia and misogyny. If that’s where you’re at, then you need to go and like you need to go take 10 steps back and rewatch the Laramie Project. You know what I mean? Like, you need to watch you know, the crucible and decide if you really hate slots, like you’re in a different place.

Nick May
Yeah, this shows not for like, the people who go who aren’t willing Grace would watch like willing grace and like Jack’s funny because he’s so gay. Like, who don’t think it’s so cutting? Yeah, it’s not for them at this point. Yeah.

Jessica Bryson
Yeah, it was for us. And if you think about it, we’ve done it for two queer play festivals, playwright festivals, and then in an improv theatre, super left wing improv theatre, and then in a theatre festival, so super gay things across the board, and women and also the company I work for is very female, like driven. So it’s like, very safe spaces very like this is for you. And I have a feeling in this circumstance as well. We’ll be in a similar boat, although it’ll be interesting. It’ll be also general audiences, but it’s theatre audiences. So I don’t know. It’s interesting. I we certainly like I know your partner’s family came. And they are certainly not theatre people, but they were not homophobic. Not necessarily people that I’ve been exposed to that kind of stuff, but they loved it. really had a good laugh. And I think it made them think and I’m like, that’s perfect. You’re like, I love my gay son and his partner, but also I don’t really see plays, and I don’t know that I’m really I talked to the language to talk about it. Beautiful. Let us do that talking for you. Yeah. And we’ll make you laugh on the journey. But if you’re like, not quite sure, if you hate people that are different than you, what are you at a theatre festival?

Nick May
I think one of the like, strongest points for me in the journey of this show has been knowing that in talking to people after the show, that there are a number of people who have seen it, who are not theatre goers so much to say that they had never seen Theatre in their lives, and then walked out of it really enjoying it and we changed their perception of what theatre is or could be. And, you know, living in that place of non traditional theatre, but still being definitely theatre, I think, was definitely strength of the show. And I’m proud of that. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby
Awesome. Great. Thank you, you guys. There’s been a lot there’s been a lot of fun