#83 – Janelle Hanna
Janelle Hanna is an actor, educator, and short sassy woman, and is thrilled to be premiering her first full length solo show Bad Baby Presents: Rules Control the Fun at the Toronto Fringe. This will be Janelle’s 5th Toronto Fringe appearance, past Fringe credits include: Eternal Friendship with a Spotless Smile (Patron’s Pick),Virginia Aldridge, BSc, Sitting in a Tree, and Fantastic Extravagance. Other credits include: Frankenstein Live (The Arts Engine), Knot Tied (Lab Cab Festival), Eligible(BravoFact), Neighbourhood Watch, The Duvet (Film Army), Swell Broad,Commencement (Convection Productions), Last Man Hanged, Ring Round the Moon, Pillar to Port Walkabout (Gairbraid Theatre), Anne of Green Gables (Stirling Festival Theatre). Janelle is a graduate of the Masters in Acting program at York University where she played such roles as Cordelia/Foole in King Lear, the Knight in The Knight of the Burning Pestle, Volumnia in Coriolanus, Alcestis in Alcestis, and Flute/Thisbe in A Midsummer Night’s Dream. She is also a graduate of the joint acting program at Sheridan College and the University of Toronto Mississauga (Theatre Erindale)
Bad Baby Presents: Rules Control the FunBad Baby is a very talented and attractive actor. She wanted to be an actor so she could sleep in and kiss boys. This is her first Fringe show. She’s seen a lot of Fringe shows though. A lot. And she knows all the rules. All of them. With a total of 13 Toronto Fringe tent romances under their collective belts, the teams that brought you Almost, Again (Best of Fringe) and Eternal Friendship with a Spotless Smile (Patron’s Pick) are back with an all new Fringe adventure. Come see Bad Baby’s first Fringe festival hit!
At the Annex Theatre (736 Bathurst Street at the Randolph Centre for the Arts)
Friday July 7th – 1:15pm
Saturday July 8th – 9:15pm
Monday July 10th – 4:30pm
Wednesday July 12th – 7:30pm
Thursday July 13th – 12:00pm
Friday July 14th – 11:00pm
Sunday July 16th – 4:00pm
For tickets, please visit www.fringetoronto.com
www.larkandwhimsytheatre.com
@Lark_and_Whimsy
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Transcript
Welcome to episode 83 of Stageworthy. I’m your host, Phil Rickaby. Stageworthy features conversations in Canadian theatre, with artists of all stripes, from actor to director to playwright and more.
If you want to drop me a line, I would love to hear from you. You can find Stageworthy on Facebook and Twitter at StageworthyPod, and you can find our website at stageworthypodcast.com. This week, my guest is actor and educator Janelle Hanna. Janelle’s first full-length solo show, Bad Baby Presents Rules Control the Fun, premieres at the 2017 edition of the Toronto Fringe Festival.
And then the other idea I still have in my back pocket, but it was a completely, it’s not a solo show. Ideally, what I really want to do is a modern, a contemporary script with different actors that switch in and out, or tap in and out, or right at the beginning of the show, we draw to see who’s going to do which scene, and it’s more about seeing actors work. Okay.
So I had those two ideas, but I kind of just felt like, I think my second idea, which I would still really like to do, if I find the right script for it, is, it’s just, I felt like, I’m like, if I have to do my solo show, I would like. Is your solo show something that you’ve wanted to do for a long time? Yeah, yeah. I’ve done, I guess, like two other solo shows that other people have written.
Can I ask which ones? Yeah, of course. So the first time in Fringe, I did a show called Virginia Aldridge BSC, which Elise Newman wrote, and that was, I guess, 2011. And then the second one I did was a couple years ago called Commencement, which is an American writer who wrote a show about a school shooting from three different people’s points of view that were connected to it.
So this is the first time I’m doing a solo show with my own work. Is there something about performing solo that has attracted you for a while? Yes. I mean, in terms of, I think in terms of me as a writer, I definitely think more in a character-driven kind of way.
So it’s just a good vehicle for me in terms of a writer. And I guess it’s also, I mean, this character, the times I have had her out and about, it’s gotten really great feedback. And so I kind of started to be like, I need to expand this and I need to build off something that was really exciting at York that I initially, way back when, was like, oh, that’s just going to stay at York.
I did what I need to do. But then as I thought about the concept a bit more, I was like, I need to, I need to try this out. And I think solo works for me.
It’s the only kind of opportunity I can try this concept out. That’s cool. For me, like for me as a writer, writing for solo is like, there’s no safety net because you can’t have another character come in to say a thing.
You’ve got to find a way for, like, there’s no dialogue to get stuff across. There’s like person speaking. So it’s like a huge challenge to like make it work on paper.
And have somebody make it work on the stage. Yeah, for sure. Well, let’s back up before we go into too much more about Fringe.
For you, when did you start being interested in theatre? From an early age. I think, I mean, theatre, theatre, really in high school. I did a lot of musical theatre in high school.
We had the musical theatre class, which was a double credit. So that was fun, because half your day was just putting on musicals. I think that’s when I really started digging in and thinking about doing it more.
And then it really, honestly, it just kind of, I auditioned for theatre programs, but I also was interested in teaching. So I kind of split my university applications, and I kind of just said, whatever happens is supposed to happen. And to the delight of my parents, I didn’t go to, you know, kindergarten, and I went into a theatre program.
So that’s when I, I think, I think I took that as a sign, as I was like, you know, if I’m going to audition for a program, and there’s 400, 500 people auditioning, and I’m one of 20 or whatever, then maybe I have something I need to pursue further. When you say to the delight of my parents, are you saying that sarcastically, or are you saying that completely, like seriously? No, like, no, they’re not delight. Well, they weren’t, you know what, they’ve come around as much as they’re ever going to come around.
But no, I’m not from like an artist family at all. Like, my dad owned his own construction company. My mom was a lab tech.
So they would have preferred you to be a teacher? Oh, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My sister’s a teacher.
My grandma was a teacher. And it’s just like, they kind of just always expect me and I am a teacher now, but teaching acting, so. Was that an awkward conversation to have with them? Like, did you tell them that you were applying to two different programs? Or did you like, just do it, and not sort of mention it? So they knew.
I applied to five programs, two were straight theatre, two were, I think, concurrent ed, and one was like a drama and education kind of in the middle. And when I got into Queen’s concurrent ed, they were like, oh, sweet, bingo, bango, done. And I was like, no, I’m gonna wait and see what happens elsewhere.
And I think, and it wasn’t, it was a pretty big fight, if I’m gonna be honest. It wasn’t much of a conversation. They just really didn’t understand how I could, you know, be throwing such an opportunity away.
Is this the first time that they’ve been faced with the fact that you wanted to do this for your life’s work? Well, I think I did a really big 180. Like, I was the first year that was supposed to be the double cohort. And so I decided to stay around for a fifth year.
Had I just graduated in four years, I would have been a chemistry teacher. Like, I did sciences as well, and really liked that. And then I think a big change happened for me between fourth and what I call fifth year in high school.
And I just, and I don’t know if they caught up with that change, really. And so I think they just, you know, I’m from a very small town. Like, it’s just being an actor is really out there for them.
Still kind of is, if I’m being honest. Can we talk a little bit about that big change? Like, what was it that happened that made you, like, change from, I’m going to be a chemistry teacher to, I’m going to do theatre? I think it was just theatre was the most fun thing in my life. Just complete joy.
And it didn’t feel like work. And I wanted to go to university. I wanted to get a degree.
I knew that. But I wanted to go for something that just felt so fun. And that was, like, theatre for me, and performing, and the process of putting together shows.
And that’s what I loved. And where I just felt, it’s, it was just like the perfect combination of, like, feeling really at ease, but completely exhilarated and terrified all at the same time. And I adored that feeling.
Did you, I mean, you, you, you, you know, you got into one program, and then did you get into York? Or was there other programs that you got into, and you chose to go to York? Which was the… Yeah, so my undergrad, I auditioned for York and U of T Sheridan, their joint program. And I decided to go to U of T Sheridan. Yeah, so that was for my undergrad.
But then a couple years ago, I wanted to go get a master’s degree. And my original idea, I just hadn’t, I didn’t think I was getting into York for their program. I just, I’m like, I’m too young.
They’re not going to take me. So in the back of my mind, I really considered going to the States. And then York ended up working out.
And is there a reason why you thought they weren’t going to take you? Mostly because they really, at the time, and they presented as something as a mature actor, like someone who has a career already. And I was 25 at the time. And I just was like, I was, I guess, three years out of undergrad, maybe four.
And I was just like, there’s no way they’re going to take me. I’m not, I don’t have enough experience. And, and York really wants people that they can ultimately work with, outside everything else.
They work with you in that audition, and they want, you know, they want to see people that they can help as well, and that they are kind of their style of working with. But yeah, I just, I don’t know, I just didn’t think I thought it was too young, which I’m realizing as many things my life, I tell myself I’m too young. Oh, really? Oh, yeah.
Teaching as well. That’s been a big, like, you’re too young to teach. Well, sometimes, like, I think, and I’ve got started, started to get over it a little bit.
But it’s difficult when, you know, you feel like you’re up against people who have so much more experience than you teaching or directing or acting. And despite the fact that I love teaching, and, you know, I think I’m pretty good at it. It is something that, you know, I have told myself too many times, I think it just holds me back.
So I’m getting over it. But talking to you right now, I just realized that that’s the thing I tell myself. It’s amazing that we all have these narratives that do hold us back.
Yeah. And it’s, it’s, I think the important thing is to identify that you have that. Because if you’ve never identified it, you can never, like, manage to fight it.
But you got into the York program, and that was the MFA course? Yeah, yeah. Master of Fine Arts, or as I like to refer to it, the motherfucking artist? Yeah, or Master of Football. But I like, I like motherfucking artist way better.
I think motherfucking artist is better than Master of Football. It’s so much better. It’s so, like, just stick with that.
It has a more positive thing. How long is that, is that program? Yeah, it’s two years. And talking about this concept of the solo show, at the end of your first year, you kind of decide what your thesis focus is going to be.
And then you spend that summer researching in studio when, you know, all the kind of, you know, stereotypical thesis research you do in libraries and such. But then at the end of that summer, the first day back, you do this 15 to 20 minute showing of your research. First day back.
First day back. So you spend the whole summer researching, hopefully. And then first day back before you start anything.
And generally, it’s an open kind of presentation. Some classes decide to do it just them. We made it open to anyone.
You show 15 to 20 minutes, and it’s your research. So it doesn’t have to necessarily be polished. There ended up being quite a lot of polish on ours.
But so that’s where I started with this concept with my clown character. What was your thesis, if I could ask? Yeah, of course. My thesis was about embracing vulnerability in performance.
It’s, you know, you spend the first year, you know, they really like, they tear you apart. They like, you know, you’re thrown all this different kind of stuff. And you see what what, what areas you shy away from, I guess.
And I realized I was hiding a lot when it came to being authentically vulnerable. And so that was what I decided my thesis focus was going to be. So how do you research that? I know, right? Well, it’s, it’s interesting.
A lot of my research wasn’t what I would call, like, theatre research. So coming across people like Brene Brown, and Elizabeth Gilbert, and things like that. Brene Brown is awesome.
She has a book called Daring Greatly, which is about vulnerability, which kind of became a big part of my thesis and a big part of the research I did. So she’s a social, kind of psychology, social science researcher. And so she’s done a lot of qualitative, yes, qualitative, there we go, qualitative research.
So I used a lot of that. And that, or like things like artist’s way, like things you wouldn’t think is research for a thesis. So that’s kind of where I started.
Which, which of the Elizabeth Gilbert books were you looking at? Big Magic? I think, I don’t know if Big Magic was, I just read Big Magic, actually. I don’t know if that was written at that time. But even like Eat, Pray, Love was a bit like of a, of a, just stepping into it.
Like that’s a, you know, she’s writing about a time where she was just, she jumped right into being in a really vulnerable position. So there was that kind of research. And then there’s just getting in studio and putting on a clown nose and playing and seeing what happens.
Have you done clown before? Yeah, a little bit. A little bit in undergrad. But I kind of started playing around with it again during my master’s.
Did you find that the clown that you had when you were doing it in your undergrad, and when you did it during your master’s, it changed much or was it? A little bit. Yeah, a little bit. I would say it still comes from the same place it did, but she’s older.
And whenever I did clown in my undergrad or that character I created, it was always with someone else. So it was like a partnership. So she’s, even since the time at York, she’s changed a little bit too.
But that same, like that clown I discovered way back when is still there, but it’s, she’s changed a bit. What’s it like when you’re used to doing like clown with somebody? What’s it like alone in front of an audience? What does that feel like? I think the great thing about clown is I never feel like I’m alone, you know, because you have such a connection with the audience, or you should, I think, throughout the whole time you’re in character. And I think I feel this way about mask work in general too.
It can be so freeing, and just the things that, the discoveries you make and the things you can create when you’re in a mask. I just, I don’t know, it’s, what was I even saying? Okay, difference between, yeah, I think I never feel alone, even though I’m in solo work and a lot of, to do with my friend show and how I approach with this character is a lot of it’s from the audience too. I’m working with the audience a lot.
There’s a, I wouldn’t say it’s like totally audience participation, but they’re definitely a big part of it too. There’s like, I know when I did my solo show last year, I hadn’t really thought until Richard Bone said, your audience is going to be your scene partner. And I was like, I’m going to have to do this.
I’m looking at people and he was like, yeah, yeah, you are because they’re the scene partner. And I really think that that’s such an important part of a solo performance is to connect with the audience, clown or not, is that you have to do a certain aspect of openness that might not be there without that nose. But I think that there’s something very similar about both aspects of that.
It’s very true. How was that experience for you having to, like, was it something, had you done this character before or was this the first time? Like I’ve never performed that show before. And so it was like the first day I was going, I felt like I was going to vomit the whole day.
Like the first day you had to do it or first rehearsal? Well, first rehearsal, it was maybe a little bit vomit as well, but like not so much as like having to perform it. Like first day performing it, um, just, just was not the best. Like it was a good day, but it was like really sort of, it was tough.
And truth be told, I, that first time I could not look at the audience. I cheated. I looked between them, I looked between them and faked it.
Second show is when I was, I’d gotten, I’d like, oh wait, I did it and I didn’t die. It was the second show where I was like talking to the audience and making eye contact with people I could see and like reacting to what they did. And it was so freeing to do that in a way that I hadn’t considered that it would be, that it would be like their interaction with me didn’t interrupt the show.
It added to it. It sort of built on it. So it was, it was really, really an amazing kind of experience.
It’s, it’s funny because we’re so terrified of it. Right. And then, like you said, it is so freeing, but it’s like this little part of your brain that keeps you from really allowing them to be there, whether in Clown or just a regular show.
I think it’s really, it’s difficult to really take them in. And sometimes before shows, not all shows, I take a moment and I, just like before I even go out there, I have to allow myself to be seen. Right.
That was a big part of my thesis, like just allowing people to see me. But it’s tough with a solo show too, because they’re not looking at anybody else. Nope.
It’s just you. So, and there’s no one else to balance the energies. And so it’s tough.
Yeah. It’s funny because the first time that Richard said, you know, you’re going to be like making eye contact with the audience and talk, they’re your scene partner. Yeah.
I picked, there was like this voice in my head that just started screaming at that point. And all that would do is just like, ah, like scream about that. The idea of like looking at the audience.
Yeah. How often have we been taught and we’re comfortable in theatre. Yeah.
Of that, that, that wall, that fourth wall. Yeah. And not breaking the fourth wall and all this stuff.
And then you do a solo show and it’s gone. Yeah. And it’s so powerful though, I think for an audience too.
Right. Yeah. Because I think the thing about vulnerability is we love seeing it in other people.
We’re terrified of it in, with ourselves. Well, because when we see it in other people, it doesn’t challenge us at all. Right.
Yeah. It’s like, oh, that guy’s being really vulnerable right now. Isn’t that awesome? Yeah.
Yeah. It’s like, not me. Well, because your body’s fighting it, right? Physically, physiologically it is, you know, it’s sweating, it’s shaking.
It’s literally physically doing things to get you out of that moment. Yeah. And the job of the actor sometimes is to just be able to stay in it.
Yeah. You know? Yeah. Well, because when we’re vulnerable, when we’re not, when we’re showing our true selves, which is a thing that we, you know, many of us learn how not to do.
You walking down the street, not showing your true face, your face is closed. Yeah. You are putting on the persona of, I am a person in this world.
You know, and don’t notice me to when you need something like to open up and have people like, notice you and see everything about you. That is alien. Yeah.
Very difficult to come to terms with. Yeah. Well, and also too, we live in a world where like a lot of things are edited and curated.
Um, so yeah, we’re not walking around being like, here’s my stuff. Yeah. I’m trying to sort of like, uh, do a little bit more, uh, here’s my stuff in terms of my creative stuff.
Just by like, yeah. Um, Austin Clay on wrote a book called after, uh, still like an artist. He wrote a book called show your work where he talks about, um, like even if something’s in progress, it might not be finished, but share it as a means to building an audience, but also bring people in.
Yeah. I know that I love when I can look behind the curtain of an artist that I love, like a writer that I love or a performer that I love. I can see how they work.
If I can get a window into that. Yeah. I love that.
I’m all about trying to share more of that. Yeah. Even though some of the stuff I might be sharing is kind of garbage right now.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
But you have to, I mean, that’s interesting to build audience. And, uh, I think, I guess in a way to it, it lets people, um, I heard you talking about on another podcast, cause I listened to some of them, um, about showing like rehearsal work and things like that. And it’s always something I struggle with when it comes to the build the audience part, because, um, like you said, sometimes it just looks like garbage.
Like, and, uh, and you really are seeing like the magician behind the, or the wizard behind the curtain. But it’s always interesting to remember, like those of us who do this forget that there’s people who don’t know behind the curtain. I don’t know what happens in the rehearsal hall.
Yeah. And it’s like for them, for us, it’s like, no, this is where we’re like fucking up. Yeah.
Imagine how much that people don’t know that in that room, it’s messy and things fuck up and all that stuff that like for them, that’s like magic. It’s like the magician is doing a good way. It’s you’re, you’re very true.
You’re very right in that. I think also it reminds me of when actors, when something goes wrong on stage, audiences love that. They love it.
They love it when the actor does something about it. Right. When they, when they don’t just ignore it because it’s like, Oh, you’re human.
You’re not, you’re not magician. You’re like this thing that I’m seeing. Like I heard just yesterday, somebody told me a story about this production of, uh, the importance of being an artist that they saw.
And there was some business with a muffin and the guy was supposed to take the paper off the muffin and put the whole thing in his mouth, but he couldn’t get the paper off. And so instead of like reacting to it, because the next thing he was supposed to do was put the thing in his mouth, he put the whole thing in his mouth, paper and all, and spent the next, the next little while, like trying to go as though he didn’t still have paper in his mouth, but still trying to chew and then swallowed the paper. And she said, that was like the best part of the show.
But like, there’s so many stories where you hear about somebody’s microphone falls off and they leave it there or their wig falls off and they just sort of like ignore the fact that the wig fell off. Yeah. And sometimes that is just, I, um, I go back to, and I hope I’m not ruining this for anyone, but if you know the Mrs, Mrs. Brown, uh, uh, they’re from Ireland, they came and did a theatre show and it’s actually on Netflix, Mrs. Brown boys or whatever it’s called on Netflix.
But they actually have a moment built into their show where it looks like they screwed up, but it’s rehearsed. It’s intentional. The audience dies for that moment.
And it’s so interesting that they recognize that and then put it into the show as something regular and they just act like it’s happening every time when it’s rehearsed, it’s part of the show. But the audiences love, cause when something goes wrong and you react to it, it’s an acknowledgement that we are all in this room together. This is happening right here and this will never happen again.
Yeah. Audiences like when that stuff happens, you will never see an audience more forward on their seat to see what’s happening. It’s exciting.
Such an immediacy, which I think maybe that’s one of the reasons, you know, I enjoy clowns so much is because it is, you are right there. You can’t let, you know, things go by and not notice. And I’m like, it’s part of it.
It’s more problems are, are, you know, just increase everything in clowns. So, yeah, I’d like that immediacy and, and it’s tough for me to talk about the concept of the show without giving it away, but I, yeah. And I’m not going to, but that feeling of immediacy is something I’m really playing with.
Um, and, uh, and I’m excited for a fringe audience to see what they, how they react to it. I suppose. I don’t know if you mentioned your clown’s name.
Bad baby. Yeah. Yeah.
Um, in terms of a bad baby on stage, what, like who is bad baby on stage? Um, well, she thinks she’s a really good actor. She just hasn’t been given opportunities. So she has a love for theatre.
She’s seen a lot of theatre and a lot of fringe shows. And like I said, she knows like everything you’re supposed to do in a fringe show, cause there are rules and she knows them all. Um, or she thinks she does.
Um, she, uh, she’s kind of, um, the girl at the dance who never got asked to dance, but still goes to every dance and, um, and stands and watches. She’s definitely an observer. And, uh, this is her first time stepping into the, into the light.
And, and so it’s her process of putting the show together and, and all these things she’s wanted to say for so long and finally has gotten an opportunity. So, I mean, you, you did some clown, a little bit of clown in your undergrad. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And then you did a little bit more in your, uh, when you were doing your, your, uh, well, you’re an artist.
Um, what was it about this kind of particular that made you want to explore it more and like build a show around it? Yeah, that’s a good question. I think, um, I hate to go back to like stuff we’ve already talked about, but, um, again, I mean, if I’m being selfish for me as a performer, it feels like I, uh, I don’t have a filter with her. Um, uh, she, she’s kind of the absurdist like voice that I wish, I guess, Janelle had more, um, confidence to show to the world a lot of the time.
Um, so, you know, she gets to say things that I, I’m kind of dying to say, um, in terms of, I think what she can bring for other people. Cause it’s not just about me. Um, she’s just really likable.
She, you know, we all, I think she has a quality that you can really connect with the underdog, the, um, um, you know, the person who never gets picked for the team. We all, I think we all walk around in some version of our life and feel like that. Um, so, um, yeah.
Was there something about, uh, clowning general that attracted you? Um, yeah, I feel like, and I talk about this with my director a lot, like why can you, you know, we talk about why can’t you say these things in a different character? Why does it have to be a clown character? And I think, um, um, because it is that immediacy with the audience that you get, um, that I, that also for me as a performer, you know, we talked about hiding a little bit. I can’t hide in a clown character. You can’t, which is interesting because you are wearing a mask.
Like it’s a small form of a mask. It is the smallest mask. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. For some reason makes everybody feel the most vulnerable.
Yeah. Because somehow when you put this thing on, even if you haven’t found your clown character yet, it’s like, you are the most pure you than you are without it. Yeah.
And in a weird way, it’s like, I can’t hide with her. And yet there’s such, I feel such a comfort with her that it is almost, um, I get to spend the majority of the show in my comfort zone until I rid myself of that. Um, duh, duh, duh.
Um, but, uh, yeah, I can’t remember your question. We have a conversation. Um, now as you’ve been putting this, this show together, um, you’ve done other fringes before you’ve done, uh, you’ve produced for fringe before.
Yeah. Um, are there things that, you know, that, that you wish you, I mean, obviously this is going to be like a stupid, yeah, of course there are a question. Um, things that you, uh, know now as a producer of fringe shows that you wish you known the first time you were doing a fringe show.
Interesting. Yeah. As I, yeah, I not producing, but I think this is my fifth time doing Toronto fringe.
We were figuring it out this week with my team. I think across the board in terms of fringes everywhere, we’ve all done 14. So in the early days, it’s funny because I think I was ignorant about how a lot of it worked.
Um, and, and, um, I think in some ways that worked to our favor, if that makes any sense at all, is there something I wish I knew now? I think, um, I think you have to really think about how you can connect to your audience and how outside of a purely like we need bums in seats kind of way. You want to think about how are you connecting to this fringe audience? What is it about your show that they are going to be able to get on board about? Yeah. And that is super important in a fringe show.
Yeah. Like, because there is a lot for people to choose from. Yeah.
So what is it about your show that people should, like, what is it that makes your show unique? Yeah. Somebody should come and see. Yeah.
And I think I, cause I know you have experience with fringes outside of Toronto, which I would love to ask you about too, because I don’t, and that’s one of the reasons I’m, um, you know, I’m hoping this show in the future, I can tour it a little bit, but I hear a lot about how Toronto fringe is maybe a bit different than, than other fringes in the country. Not always in the best way. I think, um, so going back to your question about what I kind of know now, I, I know, I know it can be a bit, uh, heavily focused on ratings and stars and, and popularity.
And I really, especially with this show, I’m really trying to fight feeding into that. So, um, I think maybe when I was younger, I felt like I was chasing that a little too much in terms of the work I was producing or helping producer in. And now I really am.
Cause I think fringe at its core is supposed to be an experiment. It’s a, right. Yeah.
It’s a safe place to try things. That’s what it should be. Yeah.
And I feel like Toronto fringe, a lot of the time we forget that and there’s so many other things. Toronto fringe has a tendency to focus on the, first off on the local stuff. Right.
Um, but also on what will be the next Kim’s convenience or the next, the kink in her hair, the next, uh, my, my mother’s Jewish Wiccan lesbian wedding. Um, what will be the next big thing? So that’s what Toronto fringe seems to be looking for. And so I think because of that, there’s a proceed, there’s less, maybe it’s still there, but I feel like people feel like they can’t experiment quite as much.
Right. Like you kind of have to have a polished, ready to go. Yeah.
Less experimentation, I think, which is unfortunate, which is unfortunate, but, um, it is, it is what it is. And don’t get me wrong. I love fringe.
Me too. Yeah. Um, I, I do think that, that Toronto fringe could be better.
Not just like, cause I think the shows that happen are better. I think that Toronto fringe as an entity can be better. Yeah.
But I, I love free me too. And it’s like my Christmas. There’s two, two things in the year.
I really look forward to Toronto fringe. And we’ve launched, these are the two things that my calendar kind of revolved around. Yeah.
Um, so that’s the kind of thing that I’m looking for. The funny thing is that the star, I mean, everybody who doesn’t get five or four stars hates the star rating system. And everybody who gets those stars, I don’t know if they love it, but it’s like, like it’s the easiest way to say on your, on your poster, this show got a good review.
Um, but it’s messy. It is messy. It’s, it’s very messy.
And yet, you know, it is a way to draw people in. Right. And it’s a quick way.
Um, you know, this opens up a bigger conversation about, you know, theatre criticism and all that kind of stuff. Right. But, um, well, because how do you, you know, how do you, uh, break down a show into a star, you know, and to wrap up an entire show and what it’s trying to do and its message and et cetera, et cetera, into a star ratings have become sort of a thing.
Generally the people expect to see that for movies. Yes. Um, and so because we can’t see for movies, we expect to see it for other forms of entertainment like theatre.
Yeah. Um, how do you do it? It’s subjective. Yeah.
And that’s why a five star show in Toronto might get two stars in Winnipeg. Yeah. And that’s just the way it is.
Yeah. Um, because it’s subjective. Yeah.
But it’s like when you have the opportunity to build an audience without benefit of those stars, because that first weekend before most of the reviews come out, everything is a blank slate. It’s true. Like technically you’ve got, I don’t have a search on Wednesday or Thursday, probably Thursday, you’ve got Thursday, Friday, Saturday, 74 days to try to get people, get those bums in seats, get buzz around your show without the star rating.
Yeah. Yeah. How you do that is the question.
Yeah. Do you guys, what are you guys thinking about for like, how do you guys make your splash? Do you know, have you thought about that? We, we definitely have. I mean, word of mouth and buzz is definitely something we’ve talked a lot about.
And how do you encourage people to get on board with your show? And, um, I, I think a big part of that for me is just the show itself and some fun things we’re doing around, uh, our show as it relates to fringe and, and because it’s a character who is putting on a fringe show for the first time we hope, I mean, people will, because like you said, you love fringe. I love fringe. It does have this warm place in a lot of people’s hearts and, and we hope that will actually, um, really help.
Um, but, uh, it, you know, it’s a, it’s a different kind of strategy certainly from like medium publicity kind of standpoint than when you produce on your own outside of a festival format. And there’s, I think pros and cons to both. Um, but yeah, it’s funny you say blank slate that first weekend is, uh, is, is a blank slate for everybody.
There are a few known entities. Like if Peter and Chris are in town, a sex director doing a show, then, you know, like those shows, they have a fault. Yes.
Gem Rolls is in town, you know, those, those guys are fine or they’re, they are a particular draw, but everybody else is like, well, yeah. When I think part of that is too, is how you market your show, what you put in that fringe program, because there’s going to be certain people, who maybe go through that fringe program and are like, oh, I love clown. There’s not a lot of clown stuff.
I’m going to that or the opposite of that is also true. Right. Um, which, uh, which I get it.
Um, so I, it’s, it’s tricky cause, and you know, we’re in the process right now of, of, you know, explain this, this show in a hundred words of like, oh, okay. Uh, which is tough, you know, tough to explain what, uh, you know, in a, in a way that will grab people and says what you want to say in only a hundred words. And, um, so.
The fringe program just generally is like one of those, like, it’s a difficult thing to, to write for. How do you encapsulate your show in a hundred words in a way that makes people number one, want to come to the show, but kind of know what they’re getting in the show. Yes.
People want to know like, what are they getting? Yeah. So just like movie trailers exist so that we get a sense of what we want in the movie. Yeah.
So I think having some kind of hook, you know, whether it’s the style you write it in, um, we’re kind of leaning in a direction that it’s written in a style that the show is also written in. Um, or whether it’s just the topic of your show, like, you know, I think about that musical about like the first thing that comes to mind is that musical about Marine land, right? Like it was Marine land, like it, whether it’s a topic or what your show is about that hooks people, you have to find something. Yeah.
And, uh, and then you run with it and you hope it works, you know? Yeah. It’s like the, the different program also is like, it’s like, how do you stand out? Not just with like, you’ve got to choose the right imagery. You’ve got to choose like, are you going to advertise in the program? That actually does help.
I know that I am more likely to see a show that has an advertisement in the fringe program and to see when it’s not. I’m so glad we put one in because we talked about this a lot. The thing is, cause on the one hand it’s like, well, do we need it with the age of social media? Like, but the thing is with the program, you’re going to hit people that you’re not hitting on your social media in your networks.
So it is opening it up to people who won’t be seeing your Facebook or Instagram or whatever. Um, and also it just goes back to psychology. Like the more we see something, the more we like it, like advertising, you know? Um, so the more you have your images out there and about, like it, it just helps.
So, I mean, you are, we’re recording this in, uh, the end of April. Okay. I’m glad you mentioned that.
Cause I was like, because I mean, I want to be clear, but I mean, this is, people are going to be hearing this pretty much like right before fringe. Right. So, um, at this time you said that you’re like 80% finished the script.
Yes. Uh, what is the process of writing a clown show like this? Right. Like, is it a lot of like actual writing or is it a lot of like improvisation and transcribing? How, how, how do you write this show? Yeah.
It’s a bit, it’s a bit of both. And the times most, like, if I’m going to look at myself as a writer, most of my writing in my life has been for a character, has been for my solo performance. Um, and I kind of let every process be what it needs to be this one in particular.
Um, as I said, I had the concept already. Um, so I had like, you know, the skeleton if you will. Right.
And then, um, I had some of the meat from doing this character in, in, uh, previously. And then I somehow, cause what I said at York is not the same thing I’m saying in fringe. I’m saying, cause I don’t need to say what I said at York, you know? Um, so then it’s like, okay, I have the concept, I have some of the bones and muscles and now I have to like put in the veins and the blood vessels and all that kind of stuff.
I don’t know where I’m going with this analogy, but, um, and like the heart. Um, so it’s, that’s been tough. It hasn’t been a linear process.
Uh, a lot of notes, a lot of playing notes and then trying to, to come back to, you know, the keys. Um, but I, I’m just kind of let it be what it’s going to be, which I never, like a few years ago, I would have been very, no, I have to, you know, do it a certain way. Yeah.
I think that’s the right way to approach it. It can’t be a right way. Cause each thing is different.
I remember hearing a story, you know, I’m a big fan of Neil Gaiman, the writer. Yeah. And, um, he, he tells a story where he was, after he was like, he was writing American Gods and he had this epiphany and he was like, this is how, this is how this is done.
And then he, he thought this is how, this is how you write a novel. You do this. And he spoke to his, his agent, his publisher.
And they were like, Oh Neil, you haven’t figured out how to write a novel. You just figured out how to write this novel. Right.
And it’s like, you just have to figure out what is the process for each thing that you’re writing. Yeah. And that can be difficult to know.
Like there’s trial and error that goes into that. For sure. And I’m sure there’s, you know, again, I’m pretty new to the whole writing, um, thing.
So I’m sure there’s people who do have, Oh, I know what works for me. And, uh, and they do it every time they’re successful with it. Maybe one day I’ll get to that point too.
But, um, I kind of right now it’s more freeing to, to let it be what it’s going to be right now. I think that’s super important because there’s, there’s sort of like a voice in my head that says like, if you have a, like a process that works for you every time, then maybe it might be stale. Cause that’s always my thing.
It’s like, I don’t necessarily want to repeat what I’m doing. I don’t want to be stale. So I want to find different ways of doing it.
Like, even if it’s down to like, sometimes I have to choose the right pen or pencil book for something I’m writing. Like this feels like a, this feels like a, like this notebook feels like a pencil, not a mechanical pencil, but like an all-step pencil. Right.
And it’s funny. Cause at first when you said that, I’m like, Oh, is that like a, like a superstition kind of thing? But no, it’s like, you know, some kind of style of show requires a laptop, whereas others are like posted. It really comes down to, Oh, this show feels like, like, like lead pencil on this kind of paper.
That’s so interesting. It’s so weird. It’s just like very specific.
This show feels like this, like I’m going to use this pen to write this. Yeah. And it might change as moments throughout the show change, but yeah.
Yeah. Um, so do you, do you know what venue you’re in yet? We do. Yeah.
We’re in the annex. I love it. I haven’t worked in it, but I’ve seen lots of shows there and it was our first story.
So I haven’t worked in that venue in a very long time, but I have always had a soft spot for that venue. Yeah. I adore it.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, now that you know the venue, have you had to adjust any of the ways you’re thinking about staging? A little bit.
Um, cause that stage is pretty unique. Yes. Yeah, for sure.
You’ve got this. So if people don’t know, it’s a staircase on either side and you’re kind of in a thrust, like with three sections of, of audience. Um, for the most part it’s opened up choices.
Uh, the top of the show is a little tricky, um, but it’s still workable, but, um, that’s one of the things about fringe. That’s kind of fun too. I mean, you know, you don’t know what space you’re going to get perhaps when you’re writing a show and you make it work.
Right. The other thing is if you were to take that show on tour to other fringes, you then have to make adjustments as soon as you arrive to figure out how is this show now going to work in this space, which is super exciting. Yeah.
And terrifying. Yeah, absolutely. Are there particular French festivals after Toronto that you would want to take it to? If you had a list of fringes that you’d want to go to, are there, are there some that are on your list? Yeah, for sure.
I mean, I think Winnipeg and Edmonton are definitely on there. Um, just because I also like to spend some time, excuse me, in those cities, but Edmonton being like the first, I, you know, I think that’s a dream. And I’ve had friends who love Victoria French.
So like I’ve heard mixed reviews on Victoria. My top of my list is like, uh, uh, Winnipeg is definitely on my list for big ones. Edmonton still scares the shit out of me.
Even though I’ve done Edmonton, it scares the shit out of me. Right. Just because it’s so big.
Yeah. Um, but I also hear that Edmonton, it’s like the city stops. Like it is fringe.
Edmonton and Winnipeg are the same in that respect. The fringe is like the, the event, which is fantastic. Like in Toronto, if you say to somebody, Oh, I’m doing a show on the fringe and they’re not from in the theatre where they’re like, what’s fringe? I know.
There’s so much. If you say you’re doing the fringe, Oh yeah. See, I love, I just love that everyone’s on board.
Like that’s what excites me about it. Um, and I’d love for Toronto to be that way too. I think there’s just too much competition with stuff going on.
There’s a lot going on. Winnipeg and Edmonton, they both have this long history of the fringe and becoming like a big thing. They didn’t start big things.
They sort of grew. Yeah. Toronto has a lot of, of other stuff going on.
It’s hard, especially in the summer. Yeah. It’s hard to imagine something like becoming as big as it is in Edmonton or Winnipeg.
Similarly, Montreal has a similar issue where, um, the Montreal fringe is quite small in comparison to other festivals that go on partially because on one side is the French music festival on the other side is a jazz festival. Right. And so you’re sandwiched in between these two massive festivals.
It’s hard to be a thing. Um, so if you, if you envision like what happens next with this show, like where you want it to go, what, what is, what is your path for, uh, this show to take? Great question. Well, we’re going to get picked up by Maribish and then, um, Salt Pepper’s going to tour us.
Um, I think fringe is going to be a really great experiment. I, I need to, I want to figure out how a general audience reacts to it. I suspect I’ll do some rewriting probably after that.
Um, but, uh, I would like to tour to different fringes. We’re going to apply for next stage, uh, which, uh, we’ll see what happens there. But, um, yeah, I, uh, I also have some other show ideas with this character, so maybe, you know, reworking the show after our fringe run and then trying a new idea with a new show, maybe.
Um, it’s going to be a lot of wait and see, just to see what happens after July for us. Yeah. Are you on the, on the social media? Do you have a website? I am on the social media.
I don’t have a website. Okay. I’m not officially yet.
Um, well my social media on Twitter, I’m just JanelleMHanna. Uh, that’s the same on Instagram, I think too. But, uh, for the fringe specifically, we’re a co-pro between Flat Earth Global and Lark and Whimsy.
So if you’re looking for our show, Bad Baby Presents Rules Control to Find, you can go to Lark and Whimsy, uh, Facebook page or their Twitter as well. Um, which is where you’ll find most of our stuff. Did you recently discover Snapchat? Yes.
Which is, it looks like you, you, you’ve been a little confused and just having some fun experimenting with stuff. Yes. What made you want to, like, what made you try Snapchat? That’s a great question.
Well, I kept getting all these people being like, add me on Snapchat, add me on Snapchat. I’m like, what is happening? And then I saw some people with funny videos. I’m like, again, I don’t know what this thing is.
So I got it. And then it’s just been, I still don’t really know what a Snapchat story is. Like I don’t, I think I had one the other day, but then I see people like add to their stories and I don’t know how to do that.
Um, but those filters are just so fun, except when they take away the ones that love. I think you should be able to favorite the Snapchat filter so that it like stays for you. Yes.
They’re always like taking some away. You know, they’re going to charge for stuff like that. That’s a great idea.
And I feel like maybe one day they’ll be like, Oh, if you want the cat, if you pay for the premium, you can have, you can favorite. Yes. I also with it, like, I’ve also thought about, uh, like Instagram today in terms of they have live and Facebook live, which is so, I don’t know how any of that works.
Well, I mean, Facebook and Instagram are there. Facebook owns Instagram. So I didn’t even know that.
Yeah. So that’s why, that’s why all of a sudden, like Instagram has live because Instagram has, has stories to combat, uh, to fight against Snapchat stories. And now Facebook has like Facebook stories.
It’s like all of this stuff. It’s a lot. And I’m confused mostly by it.
Yes. But one should only do what one like really understands. Yes.
But I mean, like play with stuff. Oh yeah. Well, and people are, aren’t, shouldn’t be encouraging me, but people are like, I love those Snapchat videos.
So then, you know, I just want to make more, but it’s also like, don’t encourage us. Is there a particular reason why you, you people, you think people are encouraging you or that they shouldn’t encourage you? I think those are the like, Oh yeah, I did the exact same thing, but I’m never going to post that. I can’t believe, I can’t believe Janelle is posting these things.
Cause like, I don’t like, it’s my, I’m not rerecording these things, which maybe everyone’s like, yeah, Janelle, we know that. Um, but yeah. So I think it’s just people are like, yeah, I did the same thing, but then I like posted a better one.
Yeah. Yeah. So I don’t know.
Well, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you so much for talking with me.
