Laura was born to tell stories. Her lifetime of performing began when she was enrolled in dance class at the Canadian Dance Company at the age of 11. She studied psychology at St. Francis Xavier University in Nova Scotia, and after completing her degree, she returned to performance.
Laura believes that the purpose of art is to be in love with everything that you do.
She has many passions in life, and plans on pursuing each and every one of them. She considers herself to be extraordinarily lucky to have the ability to pursue a life and career in such a fulfilling and infinitely interesting industry. She cannot imagine living happily any other way.
Twitter @LaPiccinin
Instagram: @Lpiccinin
website: http://cargocollective.com/laurapiccinin
The Suicide Key: http://laurapiccinin.ca/
Stageworthy:
http://www.stageworthypodcast.com
Twitter @stageworthyPod
Facebook: http://facebook.com/stageworthyPod
Transcript
Transcript auto generated.
Phil Rickaby
Welcome to Episode Eight of the Stageworthy Podcast, I’m your host, Phil Rickaby. On Stageworthy I interview people who make theatre actors, directors, playwrights and more and talk to them about everything from why they chose the theatre to their work processes and anything in between. My guest is Laura Piccinin, and a dancer, actor and playwright from Toronto, you can find stage worthy on Facebook and Twitter at stage where the pod and you can find the website and stage where the podcast.com If you like what you hear, I hope you’ll subscribe on iTunes or whatever podcast app you use and consider leaving a comment or rating
What was your first draw towards theatre?
Laura Piccinin
It was kind of like, I was never drawn to it, I was put into it. And so for the, you know, as a board kid, I had a lot of energy. So I was in dance, you know, soccer and baseball and, and theatre class in the summer, always theatre camps in the summer horseback riding camp and theatre camp. And it was just fun. And I knew it was fun. I didn’t ever know it was a job. I only knew it as fun for ever. I just it didn’t occur to me that people did that. And so later, when it became time to choose a career, I chose teaching, and I became a teacher. And then the second I got the job I went, This isn’t very fun. And I don’t like it. And then I had other people in the business, I had other friends who were dancers, other friends who are musicians and actors. And I, for some reason, it did not click in my head, you could do this, you have the training, you have the talent, the ability, the whole shebang, I mean, I would need to start back at the front again to you know, build a resume, build up the confidence and take some training. But anyway, so I did a big pivot turn right at a teaching and started back at the beginning into theatre. And then after that decision, the more I got into it, the more I was like, Okay, this is it. This is for me, this is where my love is, this is where all my energy, I feel that it’s useful. Instead of being drained out of me, I find other careers, ones that aren’t for me take all the energy I have and just suck it out of me. And instead, I could do 10 or eight hours of theatre and still feel good when I came home energised. A job
Phil Rickaby
or that isn’t right takes all of your energy just to stay with
Laura Piccinin
ya to be there and to wake up every day and go. Yeah. And, and I have never felt that with, with performance with any of my performance career as a dancer, singer or actor I’ve never woken up and been like, I don’t want to do that. There’s times where I woke up and I’m tired. But the I knew the job I was about to go do whether or not was going to be 10 hours of rehearsal was still going to be a good day a day I would take over any other kind of work because the other work is soul sucking all of it. In fact, I’ve I haven’t ever found another job that I like to do. And that makes me nervous.
Phil Rickaby
Well, yeah, I can see. Did you stop teaching entirely?
Laura Piccinin
No, I still teach I was supply teaching for a long time, this would be my fifth year as a supply teacher, which really is the worst job. And in my opinion, it’s it’s difficult to do, the kids don’t like you, they don’t know you, they don’t really want to talk to you. You’re useless as a teacher, because you’re not actually teaching anything, you’re more or less just supervising a group of people. And so it was really, really boring. And then and then just by luck, about in October, right after the Thanksgiving weekend, I got a call from a colleague of mine who said, I need somebody to come in for a half day from now until the end of the year to do dance and to do this thing called student success. And student success is supposed to be where kids who are just about to fail. Their classes come in for a little bit of extra support. But actually it’s just like a little jail for the worst kids in the school. Yeah, it’s a it’s a place where all the worst kids come to be housed so that their classes can go on without them because their teachers having such a hard time trying to get them to quiet sit down and stuff, lighting things on fire, whatever. So those kids come to me. So anyway, it’s fun to teach dance except it’s high school dance. So they’re not they’re not dancers, they’re not even. They’re not movers. They’re they’re nobody in that sense. So But they’re trying to try, the more they like me, the more they want to do.
Phil Rickaby
I mean, that’s a start that they’re at least trying, as a high school student doesn’t like to try
Laura Piccinin
it. I know that’s the hardest thing is getting them. I have to, you know, call them one by one to do the warm up. And I keep saying, this is fun, why aren’t you having fun? So I am still teaching but only as a means, you know, to make the money to live the life so that I can afford to train for the career I really want for now. So now I’ve like up the ante. I’m training an aerial hoop, and I’m changing my voice lessons every week, I’m getting in a lot of class time, which is good. But you know, where’s that balance between my my job and my career? Where do I spend most of my time and my job has the money, but my career needs my attention. So
Phil Rickaby
I guess you have to put it, put it in everything, because you have to have the job. So you can keep the roof over your head. But you have to do the training to get where you want to go. Yeah, so I guess you just don’t stop until you go to sleep.
Laura Piccinin
Yeah, I work very hard at the career that doesn’t pay me at all. And pretty hard at the job that I do teaching is it’s not it was not as hard because of the classes I’m teaching dance, I don’t have to do a lot of preparation for now a lot of marking because it happens in the moment. So I can tell seeing what the students success. I don’t have to do any marking or grading. I’m not their teacher, I’m their helper. So luckily, I don’t have to put a lot into that teaching thing except when I’m there, which is draining. But then the rest of the day is writing or acting or finding some sides or getting a new song or looking up interviews or
Phil Rickaby
something to look forward to when things are wrong. Yes, yeah.
Laura Piccinin
Yeah. Kind of the the best thing I ever did for myself was plant a million seeds all over the place and everything. So writing and dancing and singing and acting and anything I can get my hands on to do. It seems like Okay, whenever there’s a lull, whenever I’m having a bad day, or when I have some time off, I can say, Okay, well, I’m working on something. So I better go focus my attention on that. It helps with the rejection process of, you know, not getting a lot of auditions or no callbacks, not the role. And every time you go through that, you know, it hurts you a little bit. But if you have something else you’re working on or something to just shift your energy and your focus on to, it’s not so bad really takes the edge off of that.
Phil Rickaby
One of the hardest lessons I ever learned when I was when I was trying to act full time. Was that yeah, not getting the gig hurts. But if you don’t enjoy the audition process, learn how, yes, it’s your resume. It’s how you like, it’s how you get the job. And if you don’t learn if you don’t enjoy what happens in the room, they can tell ya, they just have to learn how to how to not want it too much. So you can actually have a good time like be in the room. Yes. Rather than am I going? Like I’m thinking do I get this job? Am I doing okay, am I doing okay? Because they can sense that?
Laura Piccinin
Yeah. And it’s a it’s a complete ly different skill. auditioning and being a performer are not the same thing.
Phil Rickaby
I’ve known people who are really amazing audition errs. Great in a show.
Laura Piccinin
Yeah. And the vice and the opposite is true as well. Because you it is a skill. It’s like interviewing, the way that interviewing is a skill. And I’ve only recently gotten good at auditioning i at the beginning when I first learned how to sing. And I would have thought this was a joke. But I actually went to go sing and like and then so tense, right? So Texas, so nervous, and just and had so much doubt in myself and I was new. So that doubt was there was nothing that I had to kind of quell that doubt there was there was no confidence there was a just all I needed was strict affirmation from other people in order to feel good. And so I did some pretty shitty auditions. But luckily I was still I was more or less still being myself. And what I’ve just discovered is I have to just go into the room be the best version of me that I can be in the five minutes they’re gonna give me and then walk out of it just being glad that I had a good time. Because the they that panel needs to see you who they’re going to work with. Why do they like you? Why are you special? What are you going to bring for them?
Phil Rickaby
And you also can’t carry the audition around with you all day know, especially if you’re like a person who’s going and I know a few people who do this sometimes they want audition to the next audition to the next audition you have to let everything when you leave the room. That’s where it stays. Yeah.
Laura Piccinin
And sometimes I’m great at that sometimes I walk out and I go oh, doesn’t bother me at all. And then I just about to fall asleep but I’m like I said that word really weird or are just that little it’s like when you’re a server and you you know you got that like cider ranch you’re supposed to give to a table or like a water or something like that and you forget the whole shift. You go through the whole shift. You’re so busy, so busy. Just Lay down you like to do that? It comes to me like that. And like that overwhelming doubt and that feeling of rejection, like, why didn’t they pick me and I’ve caught myself just before going to bed just sending out that message. And then falling asleep. Like that’s, that helps me go to sleep.
Phil Rickaby
It’s hard though, because you’ve got to, well, it’s something that you want. And when you want something, how do you not? Like, just worry about getting it?
Laura Piccinin
And how do you not continue to try to get it? So you know, you do the audition, you leave the room? And that’s the end of your involvement. They either call you or they don’t you so badly want to go in and be like, oh, yeah, member when I said that thing, I am not usually like that, or I don’t usually or I usually do this or whatever you want to explain and qualify all the things you did.
Phil Rickaby
And sometimes when they don’t pick you, it’s not even you. Yeah, it’s not what you did. It’s, we already cast this one guy, and I don’t think she looked good with him or her. Like, you’d think that they’re, they look like brother and sister or something like that. Like there’s all sorts of things that are so out of your control.
Laura Piccinin
Now, I caught myself comparing my self to other people who got the role that I wanted, nice, okay, she’s got brown eyes, they want to brown eyes, okay? Her hair is like this, my hair could be like that. Or she Oh, she’s taller than me. i They wanted to tell girl, what can I do? You know, and you pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and pick and you can drive yourself insane. And you will for a while, it’s not easy to let it go. But what makes it easier for me is that if again, like if I have planted a million seeds, and I have a bunch of things to do, I can’t dwell on one thing because I got something else I really love coming up really quickly. And that’s a gift of being busy. Because even in the beginning, I could have tried to be as busy as I wanted. And still not I would not have been busy because you need to know what you’re doing. You need to know people you need to know, where are you going to go to do all this training, you’re going to you need to build slowly before you can get on any kind of a roll. And just now I’d say I’m about three years into deciding that this was my career. And Only now do I find that I feel that I’m artistically fulfilled, that I have enough stuff going on my life that I’m always doing something creative. And I’m always doing something that makes me feel good. I’m sometimes being paid for it. But that that comes later
Phil Rickaby
that goes come later, you do have to pay your dues.
Laura Piccinin
Oh, god, it’s like that’s the phrase,
Phil Rickaby
that is the phrase, but it’s so true. Like you do have to work for free for a little while. Yeah. And that’s just just the way it is. That’s the unfortunate truth. And it’s, it’s, it’s the there’s so few professions where that’s even acceptable. Yeah, you know, but as an actor, you have to build up your resume, you have to show that you can do the work have the show. So the only way to do that is to do the show, and no one’s gonna pay you to do that.
Laura Piccinin
And there’s a very fine line between paying your dues and being taken advantage of yes, there is. And I recently just learned this lesson,
Phil Rickaby
you have to learn to tell the difference. There are some shows, like amateur theatre, honestly, nobody gets paid an amateur theatre, it’s called an amateur community theatre. But when there are theatre companies, and there’s some out there that do a show, and they never have any intention of paying the actors, but they’re making like a lot of money. So you’re making like, Okay, so we’re gonna charge 80 bucks a ticket 80 bucks a ticket, that means the profit should be great. No, no, we’re just gonna put that back into the company. Yeah.
Laura Piccinin
Yeah. And that’s not and you it’s the responsibility of the emerging artists to draw that line and to stick by it. Yeah. And I think that’s very difficult. When you’re, I found this, especially as a dancer, because there’s a million people to replace you. Because dancers is not as specific as an actor, you you know, you have to have the right exact look with hair, eyes height, whatever. Dance is a little bit more flexible. You could have you need a group of people. So any individual in that group is pretty much replaceable. So I think dancers get the worst end of the stick. And you have you have to look after for your own safety, you have to look after, if they’re giving you an honorarium, are they giving it enough? Is that enough to interest you in the project? And then you have to say, if this isn’t safe, if this isn’t fair, if I don’t feel good, if they don’t respect me, then why am I here? This isn’t helping me become a better dancer. This is this is a name on a resume that I’m ashamed to have on the resume. Because of the way I’ve been treated.
Phil Rickaby
Not just that, because you’re not the only person like yeah, like when that happens. A lot of times, you know, that when somebody looks at your resume, and they go, Oh, I know what happened there
Laura Piccinin
because if you feel that way, it’s a good chance that other people feel that way too. And it is your responsibility. And it’s difficult because if you’re an emerging artists, you are desperate for work like truly, truly desperate and there is always going to be people who are desperate for work. And so you have to be one of those people who wants work but demands a certain level of respect and accountability from your employer. Because it’s it’s the economy is bad. The Arts is not that far behind bad and so you have to be responsible. You have to be you Gotta take that chance that somebody’s not going to like you. Because you have to stand up and say, I think you need to give me $50. More. I
Phil Rickaby
think in a lot of cases, performers are often afraid to make that. Yeah, yeah, I say that. Because what if they’re, like, get out?
Laura Piccinin
Yeah. What if they tell you to get out? And what if they know somebody really important?
Phil Rickaby
That’s I think that’s more of the fear than who do
Laura Piccinin
they know, who are they?
Phil Rickaby
What if they say, What did they say? Phil Rickaby. Left my shirt. Oh, he’s an asshole. And then that that person who could have given me a job. Now, when my resume comes across his day, at his desk, he’s like, Oh, that Phil Rickaby. There’s, I hear he’s an asshole. Yeah,
Laura Piccinin
yeah. And that’s all it takes, because casting directors in this panel are looking for any reason to kind of get people out of the running, because they want to narrow it down. So if they have just a bad feeling, or if they heard something was, they’re probably not going to go and investigate and try and clear your name, they’re probably just going to take that fact and just walk away with it. But despite that risk, it’s kind of like, do you want to work in a world where you’re treated like that? Why do we become part of this profession, if we were just going to accept that kind of behaviour. So so it is risky. And but and it can kind of create like a glass ceiling when you start saying no to things, and then people stop offering you jobs at those companies or in those communities? You really you slow down, but I think less work, but better work? Is is better than a bunch of crap.
Phil Rickaby
I think the companies that I would trust are like, maybe I don’t mind, if I’m working on a fringe show, or I’m working on something like that, if they’re upfront about what the financials are, like, let’s, you know, I wouldn’t mind. Here’s I really cost here’s what we made. This is the truth. You know, I don’t mind that.
Laura Piccinin
Yeah, that was fun. Very seldom does that happen? Yeah. And I think there’s festivals everywhere, just like that. And, and we all know what they are. And they’re respectable, because they’re festivals that are structured that way. We know that especially with fringe, we know that nobody’s being paid. But we also know that the the, we respect the artists who are a part of fringe because we know what it does. And, and that’s acceptable. But where I’ve draw the line is there are companies who are making money off of not paying their dancers, like you said, where they are charging money for the tickets, and they are just keeping it or they’re paying people who are less disposable than you, which is for some reason, always the tech team, you need a tech team. And I don’t think they should be paid less, I think we should be paid more. They always pay the lighting guy they always pay for sound, they always pay that kind of thing, when and then they just oh the Agra for
Phil Rickaby
what the difference is, the difference is that the remaining guy will work for nothing.
Laura Piccinin
Exactly. And somehow we’ve managed to get into this rotational thing that that dancers and actors and singers will and we got to stop doing it. And we all have to stop doing it. And then a hopefully in this world that I want to live in, where everything works out perfectly, is if we all stopped, then the people who are taking advantage of good good talent is going to run out of that talent. And they’re going to pre producing crappy shows, with people who don’t, aren’t really invested, who aren’t trained, who bring in bad money, and then they’re suffering with that make them change. Okay, maybe I need to pay people. If I want high end results, I have to pay. People who have spent their entire lives training, especially dancers, but drives me so much drives me nuts. It’s like the dancers that I’ve ever known have all worked so, so hard, it is not easy. Being a dancer, it’s not easy being a singer or an actor either. But dance is painful. And it’s an it takes a very long time. There’s a lot of stress, there’s not a lot of progress. At first, there’s so many different styles so that if you’re shut down from one style, you feel like a complete failure as a dancer because you can’t be a ballerina and a hip hop dancer simultaneously. It’s it’s different bodies, it’s different movements, but you’re expected of that. And to see the dancers being paid an honorarium of $20 for a three hour performance is just sickening to think about the hours of sweat and blood literally into that talent and training to just have it brushed off as if you’re one in a million kinds of people who could come in and do that job. It’s just not true.
Phil Rickaby
Let’s back up for a second because sort of glossed over at the beginning a little bit about how you started in theatre. We just sort of it was an afterthought, but let’s win. So dance singing in theatre did they all happen together?
Laura Piccinin
I think theatre started first with the summer camps always in summer every year and dance was a quick behind. It came up in maybe when I was 12 which is late for a dancer but still early in my life. When my again it’s an energy thing I went to I had did gymnastics and then the gymnastics studio close it did rhythmic gymnastics that again that studio closed. I kind of just wandered around and my mum said, Okay, why don’t you just go here. And in the studio, they put me with a Canadian Dance Company in Oakville. The only reason I ended up there is because they didn’t offer classes on Friday nights and Friday nights with my family as pizza night. So we wanted to avoid Friday. So that that was the whole decision making is avoid Fridays get Laura to do something so that she calms down. And I stayed there and I jumped quickly from a recreational programme to competitive and I was there for eight years until I graduated high school and I went to Nova Scotia for my bachelor’s degree. And halfway through my bachelor’s degree, I My mom calls me says, oh, Disney’s come in, coming down. Why don’t you audition is Disney Tokyo and Disney Cruise lines in the same weekend. And so my mom flew me back out from Nova Scotia to go do this audition. I never really done an audition before I had been cast or placed in dance shows because of where I was dancing competitively, but never auditioned. It was good audition, super fun. Did some ballet did some jazz combos, some push ups, we did some lifts, a lot of waving, there was some waving and smiling components. And it was great. It was great. I was fine. I went back to Nova Scotia. I didn’t really think much of it because it wasn’t my career. It was just kind of my mom had mentioned it. So I went and low low pressure, maybe a month later or something like that. I’m out at a bar night we’re having a dance team. Drink a phone, and I’m walking around and the phone rings and it says you know Hi, this is so and so from Disney Tokyo. Do you are you interested in Java is like Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I’m coming. She says usually people listen to the terms of the contract before they agree. And I was like, oh, yeah, hit me with it. What is it? Like what? Okay, so eight months, says Wendy, from Peter Pan and sleeping beauty in in a show called one mainstream two. And it’s just a fantastic lip synching kind of super fun show. And so that got me that got me going in the career. So I get to Japan, do my things. Super fun, loved it, loved it, loved it. But the whole time I was there. I was just obsessed with my psychology textbook. For the third year, I was really, really excited about doing this course called abnormal psychology. So
Phil Rickaby
you were studying what was your major in your psychology and
Laura Piccinin
history? Yeah, I have a joint major. So I was obsessed with taking this abnormal psychology course, because it’s so fascinating to me. And this links into the suicide cues to play a role. So I love love, love psychology. And that’s always been true. And so while I was in Japan, I thought, Okay, I need to I need to finish this degree. And so I followed that passion. And I don’t regret that it would have certainly been easier to come home from Japan, having had that contract under my belt, and then just zipped into the rest of my career. So that would have been really nice. But education couldn’t wait. I was reading the textbook in Japan. And actually, the Japanese cast started calling me bell because I was carrying this textbook. Yeah. And it was big. It was not easy and like setting my my harness for Wendy and all this stuff and studying the shoes. And they did oh, that’s so cute. You’re studying. And so I went back finished my two years degree finished the rest of the degree which was two years more, I haphazardly was called applied to Teacher’s College because I needed another plan. And but I had planned to be an actress and a dancer. At that point, I thought, Okay, I’m going to be done with my education. And I’m gonna go, but I got in to u of t, which is kind of rare, because there’s a lot of people who apply and don’t get in. So okay, I thought I can do a year of Teachers College, and then by doing better being out, while I’m in Teachers College, we all applied for the TDSB it’s kind of a crapshoot if you if you really, really don’t get into TDSB it’s a huge luck of the draw, I got in so I thought, Okay, I gotta go in all these different sciences coming up, and really the philosophy of my life has been if it’s there, and you love it, go for it. And so I so flood, all this thing is flowing out flowing out, I in my first year supply teaching, I get an LTO for the subjects I want the most, which is grade 11 and grade 12 intro to psych social anthropology. This has been the this was the goal to be a teacher in this course. So I get there. I do the course. And I realised, well I’m kind of done. I chaperoned prom. I had my graduating class, they were so fun. I got all the information I wanted. I inspired his crowd of people they were they were wonderful students at a well respected school. And I didn’t want to do it anymore. I thought, Okay, that’s it, because because if I did it anymore, I would have to do it again. And I don’t believe in doing things twice. And I had not thought that through. When I wanted to be a teacher which is actually just doing the same thing over and over and over and over again. We’ve definitely
Phil Rickaby
done it again. If you had such a great year that first time. You would always compare it you’re the You were in.
Laura Piccinin
And I knew I was just going to lose energy as it was going on because that information isn’t, isn’t as interesting the second time you say it, and so and so I went on this trip to New Zealand with an actor friend of mine. And the whole time, I’m thinking, what am I gonna do with my life? What, what am I going to do? And he just said, you know, you could be in the show that I’m in and you could do a good job. And that’s all it took was nobody had ever said that to me ever. Like, oh, hey, by the way, you could do this as a profession. And just that suggestion was like, You are right. And then I did and then and completely turned around. And that’s all I did. I put all my effort into getting back into shape. As a dancer, I lost a little bit of it, but not too much. Because I was still young, I started taking acting classes, getting individual singing lessons. Now I’m doing aerial hoop and because of supply, teaching is so boring. I started writing the play to to give myself a purpose while I was there, about the play, okay,
Phil Rickaby
what can you tell me about the play.
Laura Piccinin
So the play is called the suicide key. And it’s about two women, both with mental illness, it’s described as depression and anxiety, but it, those words don’t really mean anything anymore, diagnostically. Sort of, and colloquially, even less, and so. But anyway, two girls suffering from mental illness for a long time. So I’m saying a decade or more, and one of the friends has decided she’s done, she’s done suffering, she’s done living, and she says to her friend, I need to think about an end of life plan. And so the friend says, okay, and because she understands, she understands our struggle, she understands that people who say it gets better, are making a promise that they can’t make, you don’t know that. And there’s a lot of things that do get better. And there’s a lot of things that that, you know, time does heal. But if you’re chronically ill, with a disease or disorder that has no definitive cure, then you don’t have the authority to tell somebody that it’s going to get better. And furthermore, you don’t have the authority to tell them when they’re done or not done fighting that disease or disorder. And so, the play is basically describing the two lives of the women why the one girl wants to kill herself and why the other girls okay with it.
Phil Rickaby
Um, what was the inspiration for this?
Laura Piccinin
I have the degree I did. And I have some personal experience with mental illness is my family, myself, my friends, my colleagues, people I’ve interviewed as part of my undergraduate degree, and, and things I’ve just picked up as a human being, and being thoughtful about what does that look like? And and how are we helping people and my research into the medications that are being offered for people with depression is just unbelievable. I mean, there’s so many there’s, you know, the basic neurotransmitters, we’re working with serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine. So we have different kinds of medication that target one or more of those neurotransmitters, and who knows what they’re doing the medications, they work for some people and they don’t work for other people, they some people crash and burn, some people take too many or not enough, or they become dependent, and they go through withdrawal, or it’s not enough medication, so they need more. And there’s nobody really monitoring that. And it’s surprising, because those medications, this is a little label that says, Oh, I’m the side effect of this antidepressant might be suicidal ideation. You know, that’s just a tiny Oh, just by the way, this medication you’re taking, could kill you. And in and of itself can kill you. So not only have these doctors have, you just go when you say I’m depressed, they go here. It’s very, it’s very short process. Sometimes they offer you psychotherapy and other things with it. If they’re a good doctor, they, they like they want to bring that a little bit further. But a lot of the time, they just hand you a bunch of pills and hope for the best. And it’s astonishing to me that somebody who has this kind of already as a depressed individual has this inner dialogue and this inner self that you cannot trust it is trying to trying to kill you and telling you all these negative thoughts. And now you’re responsible for taking this medication that may or may not make things worse. And your responsibility is to decide is that my medication or is that my life and my illness? And even separating your own thoughts from your illness is a challenge and now you have to separate your thoughts, your illness and your medication. So, come on, what are we doing to these people here? That’s that one I and I just so in the play, it all comes out all these opinions about even the difference between physical and mental illness. Why do we take one more seriously than the other? Why do we we all understand a headache, but when somebody has to call in that, because they’re overwhelmed, and they can’t get out of bed, we’re like, just figure it out. Okay. Yeah. And it’s, it’s, it’s, I mean, I think the even the distinction between physical and mental illness just goes to show what we how little we really know about what illness needs, and why we’re not respecting people. And so we understand when somebody says, you know, they’re dying of cancer, or they have Alzheimer’s or dementia, and so they want, they want end of life care, and we euthanize patson for much less, and we understand that that’s something that we are alleviating somebody up. But for some reason, with mental illness, we’re saying, no, if you could just try harder if you could just meditate or go to therapy, or just get it together, or just start by doing this, start by doing that done it bla bla bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, all these suggestions from people who don’t know what they’re talking about. I mean, I’m sure they have good intentions. But do you understand what you’re saying to somebody, you’re making them responsible for the disorder, you’re making them responsible for getting better, when in fact, they’re suffering from something that is hurting them, and we’re treating them as if they for some reason can overcome that naturally. And I think that’s just a general misunderstanding about what the term mental illness means. Obviously, it has something to do with the biology of the brain. So it is a physical illness. It’s not made up.
Phil Rickaby
No, it’s a physical illness. I mean, but that. So if somebody has a mental illness, if we treat it the same as, say, getting the flu, or having cancer or something like that, we still treat the physical disease, so we have to treat the mental illness. And sometimes we don’t do a very good job of the physical disease. But I mean, we we still put a whole lot of effort into that. So maybe the antidepressants are not as they’re not the solution. But sounds like
Laura Piccinin
it’s held. Yeah, it’s held, it’s certainly, and I would encourage people to try antidepressants, but also to, to have to say you need somebody needs to be in charge of that somebody needs to be watching this process. Perhaps it’s a journal entry to say, How am I feeling today? And what’s my dose and things like that, because you need to be able to see objectively what’s going on. Because from day to day, depressed mind changes so quickly, that it’s easy to get wrapped into everything sucks and everything hurts and everything has always been this way, when that’s not necessarily the case. And
Phil Rickaby
because that’s that’s the my friend, that’s what the disease makes you think that disease makes you think that it’s always been this way, nothing will ever get better. You’re the fuckup you’re
Laura Piccinin
Yeah. And that is you that it’s you that you and the disease are one thing. Yeah. And, and so part of the play is advocating for end of life care for mentally ill people. Because I think it’s important that at this time, if we know there’s no cure, that we should start letting people decide when they’re done fighting this fight that because there’s nothing that we know is going to work to fix people that maybe we have to just acknowledge that some people whether we want to or not, are going to die of mental illness, because we can’t help them and they can help them. And, and we might have to just say it’s okay. Because at this time at this moment in time, we don’t have a solution. And the next best thing is to let people stop suffering. Because what we want more than anything is for people not to suffer and live. But we don’t get to win like that. We don’t we just don’t get to win. And wouldn’t it be nice if we could die with dignity of mental illness. In fact, while I was reading the play, a man who lived across the street from me committed suicide, and I happen to I woke up to him dying, he hit the pavement, I made a very loud noise about five o’clock in the morning, and I shot up at a bed ran over saw him called 911. And the dispatcher told me to do CPR on him until they came and and I was kind of conflicted, because I have all these beliefs about about death and the right to die. And as I’m doing these chest compressions, first of all, it’s terrifying. But besides that, I’m thinking, Well, if he really wanted to die, who am I here to try and save him? But then I also thought why don’t really know him. So maybe it’s a cry for help. So maybe I shouldn’t save him. And so in the end, I just kept doing them, it was pretty obvious that he was already dead. So my internal dilemma was kind of inconsequential at that point. But, but it still it made me think and and I thought, Okay, here’s an opportunity to really re evaluate from a personal perspective how I really feel about this And, and actually it reinforced how oh how I believe that wouldn’t have been nice if he could have died in his bed with one other person they’re happily at, or at least that piece maybe not happily, but to have said to other people, I am done and I have to go, would you mind holding my hand? Instead of jumping from the ninth floor with a shirt around his head in a cell phone that’s already dialled. 911 What What a way to go, what are we to go after suffering for it? This was a middle aged man, this was not a teenager, this was a guy who is who who had lived a life and it was done. And so wouldn’t it have been nice to have died with some dignity and with some love and some care, in those last moments, instead of pushing everybody away, dying in secret, and alone and outside like that, that that was his only choice, he didn’t have a special little suicide machine that where he could die in peace, and his death affected others negatively, which is not the way you want to go. You know, you don’t want that people who die in their closets or in their garages don’t want the reason people don’t kill themselves is because they don’t want to scare and hurt their families like that. What if those people were allowed, and and the family could know, then they could be prepared, they could say their last words, they could do all those things that that these people deserve? Before they died of an illness of something. They’re not just making quick, fun decisions. They’re taking this seriously their death as seriously as their life? Furthermore, what if it was a teenager? What if every time a teenager felt suicidal, they they would say something, and then we would go, alright, let’s plan that. Let’s plan that death. If you really, if you really feel that way, let’s let’s plan it out. And teenagers having no sense of, you know, perspective, if you they’re shown what that death means, okay, you cannot see that movie, your friends will never get to see you graduate, you don’t get to go on that trip, you do not get to get married. When that perspective is forced on them. I think I think they make some different decisions. Of course, we’re still going to see people, it’s not a solution, not allowing Deaf people to commit suicide is not not a solution. Of course, there’s still going to be people who, who do things that that are out of sadness, and that we can’t help. But I’m just trying to think of some ways that and I truly do believe that that would help. At least some people, you know, some somebody somebody out there wants this and can’t have it
Phil Rickaby
back to suicide back to the plane. Because that’s this is all like,
Laura Piccinin
this is this is the play
Phil Rickaby
The play itself. Where is it in terms of its
Laura Piccinin
so the play is in an apartment much much like this, it’s just two girls talking. It’s an hour long, it’s it’s hyper realism. So it, they’re cooking dinner, they’re smoking a joint there, it’s very casual. They’ve been friends for a long time, they know each other’s stories. So it’s a little bit of reiterating their own life stories, but it much in the way that we’re talking now it’s very casual, we’re talking about death and depression, and neither of us are on the floor crying. So it’s kind of there’s humour infused in because it’d be it’d be dark if it was just about this. But, but this is the first time the conversation they’re having is the first time where both characters get really vulnerable. Because if this is if she’s really going to die, then her friend needs to throw out all the stops, she needs to say, I was as bad as you were once and and I’ve made it out just just to let you know, yeah, this is possible. So the friend, the friend is having this conflict between supporting and understanding, but also, you know, she’s gonna die, the friend is going to die. And and you don’t know when and but and you’re gonna be responsible, in a way. And so it gets there’s a huge tension. And I believe that tension is something that anyone can relate to. Because why wouldn’t you feel both of those things at the same time?
Phil Rickaby
Do you have a date for performance?
Laura Piccinin
I had it. This year, we had everything all almost set up. And then a really unfortunate thing happened. Got it all knocked out. So it’ll be next December into next January is the new proposed timeline for the suicide key
Phil Rickaby
workshops. Have you have you actually read it?
Laura Piccinin
I’ve had I’ve held online auditions, we were really well I was ready to go. And in fact, so I have I have my girls, I have my character, my two characters, I’m playing one of the characters, and I’m also directing it. So I’ve had I’ve asked a girl to come in and play the swing. So there’s only two characters so she’s going to play both. And she’s going to play the character I’m going to play while I’m directing. And then her and I are going to swap in and she’s going to swap with the other character. So and also it’s nice because the material is so heavy. If you’re not in the mood, like it’s not going to go well on stage, so we want to have an extra person in there to rotate the cast around him again. knew I wanted Factory Theatre, it seemed perfect there is there, I can’t remember if it’s their studios, this their smaller space, because I really I want an intimate audience, I want it to be kind of voyeuristic the audience looking in on this play, because it’s a comfort, it’s an intimate conversation. So I want it to be small, but I want them to feel like they can hear everything and they’re listening in as a fly on the wall. So but either theatre past summer, I has a lovely little space to all the little theatres do, but I had booked with Factory Theatre before I had to pull out. So I would definitely I’ll approach them first hoping they’re gonna forgive me. I mean, it wasn’t too messy, but nobody wants to be the person who had to back out of a project. So I think we ended up on good terms, because you know, we’re both good people, it just the circumstances around it played 2x 1x. It’s one act, it’s an hour long. The time constraint came from different things I was while I was developing it, different. Different things came up with that, oh, apply to your play here play play. So I had written a 20 page, complete draft, I thought I’m done. It’s 20 pages long. And then I apply for with the playwrights guild of Canada, they had an emerging artist of emerging writers playwrights award. And I wanted to apply for that. And so but the requirements is that it had to be a 60 minute play. And so I thought, well, here’s the challenge. So I took my 20 minute show, and I really filled it out. And and it turns out, that was such a blessing. Because I really thought I was done. I really thought I had it all done that 20 pages and what a joke. Like it was it was what I wanted, but it was such a little thing like it really the hour is what was needed. And the hour allowed me to, to infuse the humour and the in the real people aspect of it. Because in the first draft, it was, it was just straight to the point. And nobody needs to be lectured about mental illness, they, I’m secretly lecturing people and hiding it in entertainment now.
Phil Rickaby
So it’s just your first play.
Laura Piccinin
Yeah, and it all came about because I was feeling like such a useless supply teacher that I needed to write something. And and the the title came first the suicide key. And then I built a play around what I truly believed. And then because the title of the suicide key had gripped me so hard, I immediately knew what to do. And I wrote actually the first draft, not the 20 page, but the first draft about 10 or 15 pages, I wrote it in one sitting, I knew as soon as I got that had that title, I knew what I needed to write because I already had those opinions. And I was just playing them off each other character
Phil Rickaby
writing can be so, so therapeutic sometimes. And so I know for myself, when I’m having a rough day, at my day job, I have a notebook, I use the notebook with me. And I, on a rough day, it’s beside me on my desk. And I probably don’t get to open it. But I know it’s there. I know, I know that I could on my lunch, pick up that book and write it I don’t know. But
Laura Piccinin
it’s it’s your safety net of artistic expression, I felt the same way I would, I would open up the document the suicide key document every day went to supply and if I had an idea, it would already be up. And then I would just add to it maybe a sentence. But it would give me that validation that I was doing something with my mind with my work with my creativity, doing something and it was an outlet and and as I started to round up that that writing process, I thought, oh boy, I have to I have to do more of this. And it’s not just about being creative. It’s about propelling my career for it. I was mad people weren’t hiring me for things, I wasn’t getting jobs. And I thought you know what, if I want to be the character I want to be then I better write that character.
Phil Rickaby
You know, it’s interesting because I’ve spoken to a few people like this because I’ve talked to people who are recently out of theatre school and people who have been out of school for like me about 20 years. And when I was in theatre school, the idea of writing your own show, like being a self producing actor, was like, that’s not a thing that we ever discussed, really fringe existed and some people would do it but it was always sort of a an act like nobody taught you how to self produce, right? It wasn’t a thing that that was part of the acting career. They prepared us to go to auditions, get the job, do the job, go to the next audition, get the job, do the job. Write my own play produce it put it up. Yeah, that was never part of it. But now if something that’s that’s considered for I think most schools are part of the programme.
Laura Piccinin
I can see why they would. Why would not be something they would do because being a performer and being a writer are not the same thing. Those skills aren’t necessarily transferable. It’s difficult
Phil Rickaby
is difficult, but it’s worth it.
Laura Piccinin
Like yes, if you can do it, or if you can collaborate with somebody who can help you do it. This is a way off the ground and I This play has opened so many doors for me. And it’s even this, I wouldn’t have been able to contact you if I hadn’t already written to play or had started to play. Yeah, I had something to say to you. Same with the pitch indie event at the past summer I, I had something to say when they offered that I didn’t have to think about it. I already had a play, I needed to talk to them about it. Same with other people, all these other people in my life who would come in, they say, Oh, what are you doing? I’m writing a play. Wow, that sounds a lot cooler than I’m an unemployed actor. Yeah, it just it pushed me forward in a group of people who are stagnant and, and that’s just the nature of the job is to be standing still for a very long time.
Phil Rickaby
I mean, an hour long. The play is something that could could fringe tour.
Laura Piccinin
Yes. And I’ve done I’ve applied to the friends twice, and not gotten any other
Phil Rickaby
time. Have you just run over? Have you done just Toronto
Laura Piccinin
for now?
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, do like apply to other ones? Yeah.
Laura Piccinin
It became obvious this year.
Phil Rickaby
Were you at that at the fringe lottery this? Yeah. So
Laura Piccinin
so I’m never gonna do that again. It was too. I was too. I was too nervous and waiting and waiting. And then the numbers will go by and it’s not you. And now what do you do?
Phil Rickaby
I will probably do it again. Because I I’ve done it before. I know though I know what the odds are. Yeah, I know what the odds are. But there are other festivals. There’s, you know, Montreal, which is a great little fringe to like to start a show in.
Laura Piccinin
And Hamilton is not far from doing him London.
Phil Rickaby
And London has a friend
Laura Piccinin
who I got a car. Yeah, yeah. And yeah.
Phil Rickaby
I mean, if you’ve never been to Winnipeg fringe, I recommend
Laura Piccinin
it. Yeah. And you know what, maybe being that a small pond is is kind of a nice pond to be in and start start the buzz.
Phil Rickaby
What’s funny, we’re from Toronto, we think that maybe Winnipeg is like a small pond fringe. Number two in Canada, really.
Laura Piccinin
A lot of comedy comes out of Winnipeg, too. And every time I’m surprised, but I shouldn’t be because I know that.
Phil Rickaby
There’s such amazing work that happens in Winnipeg, I know some amazing theatre artists, who do Winnipeg to Victoria and they don’t come to Toronto, really. They’re brilliant. But they’ve heard that Toronto isn’t welcoming to touring shows, so they don’t even bother with it. There’s some amazing work that goes on and some of those other festivals as well.
Laura Piccinin
Yeah. And that in of itself is a full time job. I’m right now I’m applying for grants, and I can’t Oh, my God, I’ve got a big can be a full time. Uh huh. I know, I just keep employing myself to do more and more difficult things. But so there’s a big one coming up February 3 for the Ontario Arts Council, you know, there’s 20, big $20,000 grant, which is exactly what I need. And they I just I’m scared. I’ve read the I’ve read what I have to do I have most of the information because I’ve applied to smaller grants. So I’ve got I know what I’m doing. I’ve got the work. I know, I’ve listened to an hour and a half long webinar about applying for this grant. And now I just have to do it. And it’s Oh, it’s so daunting, but I’m going to
Phil Rickaby
remember, no, because they I mean, they also do patent from the from the Ontario Council does a seminar. Oh, yeah. Did Ontario if you remember, it’s free, but it’s not expensive if you’re not a member. So
Laura Piccinin
yeah, it’s it is good. This webinar I was listening to, I did not remember who was hosting it, but it was just about two weeks ago. And it was great. It was oh, it was a woman from the Ontario Arts Council. She and she described just in detail, what you need to include in this in this application. And they, to my surprise, they want some really specific information and explanations. It’s a little bit more casual than I had thought in the end, because they want you to describe what you’re doing, especially in the budget they want. Not only the budget, but why you believe that that’s the budget, who’s your target audience? What’s your revenue going to be? Like? How do you know you’re going to reach these certain these people? And, and and why are you confident in this? What what space Have you picked? They? It’s much more complicated than I need $35,000. And here’s my breakdown. It’s about the math, but it’s about also, where if you don’t get the full $20,000? Where can you make cuts? And where are you getting free services? So they say if you got us a studio, who’s going to give you some rehearsal space, put that in the budget rehearsal space free, so they don’t not only they want Oh,
Phil Rickaby
they look at it. And they’re thinking, Oh, well, this, they haven’t accounted for. Yeah, it was just based on what they’re talking about.
Laura Piccinin
They want that in there because they’re saying assume we don’t know anything and tell us everything. And so that was daunting it is I have to make sure I get on all those details and really explain myself. Yeah. Have you thought about I have I also have a fundraiser named Rahim and he was helping me actually the reason this kind of didn’t work out the first time is that he’s he has a health issue that got in the way, but he’s my main fundraiser. And so he was he was in charge of all that stuff. So he’s still now He’s better. So we’re good. And so he’s, he’s back on to it. So I have the grant I have, I’m gonna try. I’ve always shied away from crowdfunding, because I don’t, I don’t believe in asking my colleagues for money. I know they don’t have any money, I don’t have any money. And so while I appreciate the effectiveness of it, and I will go there if I have to, but because I’ve found other ways to kind of avoid that for now, because I want them to pay to come see the show. I don’t want them necessarily to help me produce it, I want them to enjoy. I want to I want to show them something, and I want them to pay for it. Because Because I put it up and I put it in the theatre and I did this and it’s professional. What’s the
Phil Rickaby
I mean? It’s interesting, because the thing about crowdfunding, like if you were to try crowdfunding, you only had two friends to go by. You could never raise the money. That’s that’s the the truth. The whole thing about crowdfunding as an I have I could rant about crowdfunding really? Oh, I could.
Laura Piccinin
I could talk about this later. Yeah, I won’t.
Phil Rickaby
I won’t. Now I’m going to later on I’ll do it like an episode on crowdfunding. But in terms like, if you can’t, you have to find a way to get out of your network. It has to be a pitch that’s good enough to get attention. It has to have perks that people want. Yep. And it has to like you have to be able to get people to share it. If your friends can’t donate your friends can share it. Yes. Yeah, that’s I mean, that’s it’s gotta go I mean it’s that’s a full time job.
Laura Piccinin
Yeah, I know I have now I have six full time jobs. And only one that pays
Phil Rickaby
well, we’re almost at the end of our time before we go. I want to make sure that we cover obviously you’re on Twitter. Yep. Can you share your your Twitter handle
Laura Piccinin
at L A? P ICC? i n i n at La Pitkanen? I do I’m now my Twitter person on the twit yeah tweets yeah it’s a great way I do I have a cargo collective website. Laura pitch cargo collective slash lower pitch and n.com and I also have Laura pitching and.com which is the website for the suicide key where it has the donate button for the money always important to donate Yeah, and so the my cargo for the left to cargo collective website is more of my personal website with with that I set up with my pictures and videos, my blogs and it addresses me as a dancer, singer actor with all and I have a little you know, blog with my little opinions. The suicide that Laura pitching and.com is suicide key based. So it mostly has stuff about the show and a little bit about me because really what I’m trying to sell people on is me The show also but me if they trust me and they like me, then they’re more willing to come see the show. That’s great. Yeah. Great.
Phil Rickaby
Well, thank you so much for for talking.
Laura Piccinin
Thank you. This has been great.Transcript auto generated.