Miles Cohen & Stephen Lafrenie of Mad Power

Mad Power is an arts organization dedicated to the encouragement of artistic achievement and the protection of the rights of psychiatric survivors.

Miles G. Cohen (Producer & Project Director)

Mr. Cohen is a survivor with 40 years theatre experience. A graduate Of Bishop’s University, Canadian Mime School, Playhouse Acting School, and an alumnus of The Second City Touring Company he has performed and taught in theatres and institutions across Canada. He currently teaches at “Learn” a CAMH day program as well as “Encore” a CAMH pilot program for patients on the ward. He is a member and past board member for Workman Arts; a CAMH based arts organization. He is a founding director for Friendly Spike Theatre and a founding member of Kytes youth theatre for street youth. He has been a facilitator for an adult encounter group at Bridgepoint Health Centre and taught meditation at the Ralph Thornton Centre.

Stephen LaFrenie (Producer and Actor)

Stephen has performed and taught physical theatre for over 38 years. His training includes Ecole Jacques Lecoq, Mime School Unlimited, Dean Gilmour, and Tony Montanaro. He has toured extensively across Canada, to Spain, Australia, France, Hungary, Jamaica, Haiti and the U.S. Recent collaborations have been with Toronto’s Keystone Theatre, co-creating their two latest productions of “The Last Man on Earth” & “Gold Fever”, both which premiered at the Toronto Clown Festival and enjoyed great success on the Canadian Fringe circuit. Other collaborations include Gabrielle Houle performing with Toronto Consort. Over the last 16 years he has toured with both Faustwork Mask Theatre and with Metaphysical Theatre’s production of “Fool’s Gold”, which he co-created. He has received multiple Arts in Education grants from the Ontario Arts Council and taught in schools, colleges/universities across Canada and in Australia.

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Transcript

Welcome to episode 73 of Stageworthy, I’m your host, Phil Rickaby. You know, I love getting feedback from listeners, so if you want to get in touch with me or want to tell me how much you’re enjoying the podcast, you can find Stageworthy on Facebook and Twitter at StageReallyPod, and you can find the website where you can leave comments or send a message at StageReallyPodcast.com. And if you haven’t subscribed yet, you can do that on Apple Podcasts or Google Music or whatever you get your podcasts, and while you’re there, consider leaving a comment or rating. My guests this week are Miles Cohen and Stephen Lafreniere of MADPOWER.

MADPOWER is an arts organization dedicated to the encouragement of artistic achievement and the protection of the rights of psychiatric survivors. Why don’t we start with what you guys are doing? We’ve got Stephen Lafreniere, Miles Cohen. What’s the project? Can you tell me a little bit about that? Well, the company itself is called MADPOWER Theatre, which is Miles’ brainchild, and he asked me to come on board and help put it together.

So Miles is a prolific writer, and he’ll talk about that, but he has a lot of plays that he wants to produce. Okay. So I had already been working on a piece and an idea of Pantalone auditioning for King Lear.

Okay. And so, because I have an older brother and a mother who’s entered dementia, and I’m the guardian now, they’re both in long-term care. So I wanted to play with the idea of Pantalone on the verge of full onset dementia, wanting to hang on to his faculty, so he proves himself by auditioning for King Lear.

So while Miles and I were talking about the production, he had his show, El Magnifico, Too Dumb to Stay Down. And so we decided that would make a good introduction to the company. I would co-direct his piece, and he would direct my piece, and then we would help each other in terms of that.

So we’d present two solo pieces that would sort of give an idea of the kind of styles that we have and present the company. But Miles can talk about the background of what germinated MADPOWER. Yeah, I’d love to hear about that.

Okay, I’m a psychiatric survivor, and I remember one time, that means I’ve been diagnosed with mental illness, and they call it survivor because it’s kind of laughing me, but it’s seriously saying you survived the psychiatric system. And I remember one doctor, when I was hospitalized a few years ago, says, I don’t like you calling it survivor, that implies we’re trying to kill you. And I said, well, that’d be fine if you guys would stop doing that.

But okay, that’s tongue-in-cheek. But I mean, there’s a great deal to be said for the psychiatric system. And there’s a great deal of flaws.

And a lot of people suffer hugely. And some people die, maybe not as the result of the system or the system not being… It’s a state of evolution, you know, considering that people were chained against a wall 100 years ago. And now, you know, there’s significant growth.

So anyways, I was first trained as a mime, and I had a BA in theatre. And I went to professional acting school. And then, and I worked for a couple of years.

But in the middle of my training for professional acting school, I suffered a breakdown. And I was brought back to Montreal, eventually, after walking around with two garbage bags, you know, dropping it on my friends, driving them crazy, like I was becoming. And I was hospitalized in Montreal General, diagnosed schizophrenic right away.

And then later, in my 30s, I like to say I was paroled or got a lesser sentence of bipolar, and then even lesser sentence of OCD, with possibly manic episodes. So I’ve been in and out of hospital for 40 years, but I’ve also pursued a career. I’ve done solo mime shows, I’ve worked for Second City Touring Company.

I’ve done a fair amount of theatre, and somehow managed never, never to be taken away in the middle of a show. Once in a hiatus at Second City, which it would be Second City, I was with a touring company. We had a hiatus for six weeks.

And by the time we got back, I was, you know, on my way somewhere, you know, to another galaxy. And I said, please take me to the Clark. And they said, Are you sure we can work this out? And I said, No, you can’t, trust me.

So that’s the only time. But other than that, I’ve been able to navigate a career, you know, as a mime, as a clown, and in theatre. Now, I had a significantly horrific episode about 25 years ago, which is dealt with in some of my plays, where I jumped off a bridge, broke my back in three places, and ended up in a group home.

And everybody was ready to put me in a nursing home until my friend, now my wife, took me to this genius in Oakville, the psychiatrist. And he said, Oh, no, no, not a nursing home, this guy can heal. So then became an odyssey of 10 years of healing, never thinking I’d ever get back on stage.

But then there’s Workman Arts, which I don’t know if you’re familiar with. Workman Arts is part of CAMH, a psychiatric nurse named Lisa Brown 30 years ago. Notice how well people felt after they had like, little performances for each other on the ward.

So she started Workman Arts. And there’s now a thriving arts company, Fine Arts Acting in Toronto, with 300 members. We have a film festival every year called Rendezvous with Madness.

I got sent to Amsterdam in a play, blah, blah, blah. So my occupational therapist said, Oh, you should try Workman Arts. After about 10 years of healing, I joined.

Much to my surprise, I was back on stage. Much to my surprise, I was teaching again. I was the last one to figure this would happen.

So then after a while, I started writing my experiences. And to make a long story, a short story, even longer than I’m making it. I got the idea of starting my own company.

And Steve and I had worked together many times. Before my jump, and even after my jump, I was in the group home, he wheeled me out to the backyard and said, Please have a look at my clown show. That may seem like a mean thing to do.

But that’s the nicest thing you could do to somebody. What was even nicer said, Wow, you really helped me. So then I thought, Oh, maybe there’s some hope for this dawdling guy after all.

But never did I think to get back on stage anyway. So then eventually after serving on the board at Workman, and doing shows, etc, etc. I started to burgeon out with my writing.

And I said, Okay, I’m gonna make the leap, the other leap. And I contacted Steve. He said, as he said, Help me with Pantalone.

Every time I work with you, it works out well. I said, Oh, my life has worked out great too, Steve. No, but it’s like, but then we got the idea of a company and I thought mad power.

I liked it. Yeah, kind of an assertive form of psychiatric survivor. You know, saying, you know, like, one of the problems is the system tends to infantilize people.

It’s not a fault. But you can, you have to empower people. So our mandate would be to empower people through the arts, and to do professional work, and to train survivors professionally or and do outreach and stuff like that.

Hence mad power. Not the Southland, South Ontario gave birth to mad power, not the blues. So that’s it.

I guess I guess that’s the end of the interview. No, no. Well, question that just, you know, I’ve known Stephen for a number of years.

So I’m gonna, I’ll talk to Stephen in a little bit. But I’m curious about, were you always writing? Or is that a relatively recent? Well, I try, you know, I tried to write before I got sick. And you know, it wasn’t really interesting.

I didn’t have anything to say. Then I tried to write while I was sick, and it was even unintelligible. But the combination of recovering and writing proved to be very, actually, my doctor, Dr. Benacheria, he was so wise and kind.

He let me email him first ideas, thoughts. And I’d say to him, did you look at these things? And my wife would say, Oh, Miles, he pushes the delete button. Because he’s got the patients up, you know, they send them automatic patients and all kinds of stuff.

Dr. Benacheria said, No, no, I don’t push the delete button. And he kept, he kept commenting on my work. Like I read essays about psychology, essays about this short stories.

And then finally, one time I sent him a play. And he said, email me back. He usually didn’t email me back, you can tell me in the next session.

But he emailed me back and said, Miles, this is good. And then in the next session, he said, you know, one thing, theatre, film, TV, the linchpin is a good script. So just keep churning them out.

And I started to and then, and then thanks to workman getting me back on stage. And I and I workshop some of the work and I swear, you know, I did not expect this at all. And so now yeah, now I’m so I know I was always writing, but it wasn’t very good, except as a kid, like we had a reel to reel tape recorder.

And I produced my own comedy shows, you know, which my brothers would come in and erase it right away. Well, they were probably recording music on that. What’s that? They were probably recording music on that.

No, they were math and physics guys. Oh, okay. I am the black sheep of sort of speak of the family.

Were you always a performer? Or is there something that you can remember that that made you want to do it? Um, okay, I mean, bluntly, I had a reading and writing disability as a child. And I seem precocious in my words. But when I stared at a page, all I can do is think of making jokes about it.

Like, like most comics would say, you know, my mother used to wave her finger at me when I left for school and said, behave, you’re not the class clown. So after I did my first clown show, years later, I she came backstage, she said, Miles, I was so good. I said, now who’s not the class clown? But yeah, I was always making jokes made like most comics would say, because they had some problem in school.

And also, there was a lot of hardship in my family. And, and we look to each other to make each other laugh. You know, and that was the, the, the being the Joker made you want to do theatre? Well, yeah, actually.

Well, no, I, I got the I actually got the idea. I, I went into university in the first year in psychology. Now, I, that’s ironic.

I found it was so and I won’t use a pejorative word. No, I’m not going to, I didn’t like psychology at all. And but they had a really good drama department, because they, they just built a centennial theatre, like a million dollar complex.

And a wonderful man who’s passed away, David Rittenhouse, was starting a program. And I kind of jump shifted into drama. And that sort of started it.

So it was, it was always an idea of people and how they tick. But I felt much more comfortable in the, in the theatrical side. Stephen, you’re, you’re talking about the, the, the pantalone piece that you’re working on.

Now, Commedia dell’arte is something that you’ve been doing for a long time. And it’s a passion of yours. You’ve always, pantalone, as far as long as I’ve known you, pantalone has been your character.

Is that, has that always been the case for you? No, I’m actually a natural Tartaglia, who, Tartaglia, I can’t give the original word, but Tartaglia, the name, comes from an old Italian word meaning to stutter. So Tartaglia is a social incompetent. So he verbally stutters, he emotionally stutters, he physically stutters.

So that is my natural character. Because when I was younger, I couldn’t talk to people, especially when I became a teenager, I certainly couldn’t function socially with anybody. So I’m a natural Tartaglia, as I got older, because my clown as well is a Tartaglia-like clown, who always wants to do well, but can’t get it going, just can’t get it done.

And finally does something, even if it’s not the actual trick that he’s trying to do. And then when we created Fool’s Gold with David Langlois from Metaphysical Theatre, created Fool’s Gold, he asked me to be part of the original cast to put the show together. Tartaglia, I was cast as Tartaglia, who’s going to be an apothecary, giving a potion to Isabella so that she can pretend she was dead, very much like a Romeo and Juliet thing.

And then Tartaglia got written out of the show, because we just couldn’t get the character to work, and all the improvs were going in a different direction. So then David and I talked, and he wanted to give me a chance to be Pantoloni, and I wanted a chance to play Pantoloni. So I started to play Pantoloni about, well, we put the show together in May 2000, so it’s been 17 years that I’ve been doing Pantoloni.

But Tartaglia, I’ve been doing probably about 40. Do you get an opportunity to do Tartaglia very often? Yeah, when I do the corporate gigs, I usually go as Tartaglia, sometimes as Pantoloni, but mostly as Tartaglia. I found this beautiful old photograph, not photograph, but drawing of Tartaglia, who’s actually an extension of the Doctor.

So he’s more of a white collar worker, he’s very efficient when he’s alone, but when he’s with people he can’t function. So I try to play Tartaglia for those things, he interacts with the clients a lot better. And like I say, a lot of my routines come out of Tartaglia.

When did performing become a thing for you? Well, performing became a thing for me when I was 17 or 18, and mostly linked to the fact that because I couldn’t function, I wanted to function, and I wanted to do something in the arts. I was originally going to be a priest, so I was wanting to go into the seminary. So when I was a kid, apparently, I used to walk along the aisle imitating the priest.

I would actually walk around the church pretending to be incensing people, and I used to do little play masses with my brothers and sisters when I was a kid. So I was always doing things that lent myself to performing. So I started out wanting to be a playwright, took playwriting, but couldn’t get anything written.

So I decided to take acting to get a technical perspective of writing, so I could know what stage left, stage right was. And then I discovered that I was starting to come alive a bit and coming out of my shell. But I still didn’t like talking to people socially, and I saw somebody doing mime, and it clicked for me that if I could express myself and still not have to talk to people, that’d be really cool.

So I made up my mind, some stubborn guy at heart, just like, okay, I’m going to be a mime. And I met Christopher Newton when he was doing the Count of Monte Cristo at the Vancouver Playhouse where I was living at the time, and somebody introduced me to him, and I said, yeah, I want to be a mime. He said, oh, you have to go to Paris and study at Jacques Lecoq School.

So I went to École Jacques Lecoq, got kicked out, came back, finished my studies in Toronto. Did you get kicked out for misbehavior? No, you don’t get kicked out for misbehavior at Lecoq. By that time, a lot of the mime technique aspect of what he had been teaching previous years, because he was in constant evolution as a teacher in school, they were starting to drop a lot of the mime and illusionary practice out of it.

And I wanted to specialize in mime. So at the end of your first term, the three months, you have this audience with Lecoq, and he says, yes, no, go away, you can stay. And he said, well, in these three months, nobody, the teachers don’t think they know you.

Some teachers think you’re great for the school, and other teachers don’t think you’re going to make it. So what do you want to do? And so I told him of mime, and he said, go talk to the other teachers and we’ll see what they say. So I talked to the other teachers, and they said, well, we’re not a mime school.

So if you’re wanting to be a mime, you’re in the wrong school. We’re not going to train you to be a mime. And in those days, Lecoq, I think the school was not wanting anybody to necessarily specialize in any one thing.

So that’s why I left the school. And then I reapplied, I applied to go to DeCruz, I applied to go to Barnum & Bailey in different schools. And then I found the Mime School Unlimited, which was here in Toronto.

And Ron East accepted my application. And I liked that, because I could apprentice to join the company, which I wanted to do. Whereas Theatre Omnibus, a brilliant mime company, said, yeah, no, you’ll have to study for five, six, seven years before we’d even look at you.

Barnum & Bailey weren’t taking foreign students at the time, because you had to accept a two-year contract if they liked you. And so they didn’t want to have to deal with immigration. Right, of course.

Yeah. So now they do accept Canadians and foreigners. So I settled on Ron’s school, and then just progressed from there.

So when did you decide, because, you know, mime, you did the mime for a while, but then at a certain point, you found your voice on stage. I found my voice on stage, largely through teaching, because I had equal vocations of wanting to teach and wanting to, very similar to one of the reasons why I like Matt Power and the whole concept is, because when I was young, I was told, yeah, forget it, you’re not going to be able to do this. So I wanted to take music.

He said, no, you’ll never be able to play music, the music teacher. So when I started to teach, I wanted to show young people that, no, you already have something inside you. And I was persistent and I was stubborn.

So I’m going off track a little bit. That’s all right. But essentially, through teaching, I found my voice.

And I found my comfort level in front of people. But I still won’t, I still can’t function socially. And I think you, we’ve worked together for the last few years.

I think you’ve noticed even on tour and stuff that I’m not really the guy who hangs out in the restaurant and chats everybody up and stuff like that. I’m not that. The show finishes, I’ll make my appearance.

And then after about 10 minutes, I’ll be like, right, done my thing. I can go now. Absolutely.

So on stage, I can perform. As a teacher, I can interact. But I’m in control of those two aspects.

So in a social environment, I’m not. So I can’t function still. Um, you’re probably the first person who I’ve spoken to who, who, instead of going, who wanted to be who is considering a career as a priest.

Was that was that a Catholic priest? Was that? Yes. Okay. And it’s interesting that you were considering to me a career as a priest, as somebody who, because you have to talk to people as a priest, you have to talk.

Well, the thing is, is that when I was when I was a kid and going into high school, which is when the crisis really happened. Like I say, I was more than willing to, to talk to people about, about God and about the church. And my mom was very devout Catholic.

We said family rosary every night, we went to church every week. So she did everything to encourage me to be able to do that. And I had people who taught me to be a good altar boy taught me Latin and they were going to coach me on how to be a priest eventually.

Um, so it’s, um, uh, again, I think it’s that, that spiritual connection, uh, to the vocation of teaching that connects me to the performance for it. So I think being raised, uh, spiritually devout, even though I’m no longer a Christian, um, that devoutness is still there. That faith is still there.

And that allows you to find your voice. Yeah. Yeah.

When did, when did you and Myles meet? I, well, the very first time I honestly can’t remember, uh, because I had heard about Myles in the mime school because Myles had gone to the Canadian mime school. Ron had taught at the Canadian mime school and Dave Langlois had, um, attended that. So Dave became an instructor with Ron at Ron’s school.

So I’d heard about Myles throughout that school year. That’s in, we’re back in 79, 80. Um, so somewhere in the early eighties, Myles and I met.

And then, um, we, uh, and that’s around the time we actually started working together because I was doing my first serious mind play, um, at Joseph Workman because Joseph Workman, uh, when they arrived, uh, the queen street facility would give you their theatre for free and let you rehearse there, but you had to allow, uh, clients to attend anytime they wanted. So that’s, so I asked Myles to direct to cope. Well, I said, assistant director, he ended up being co-director, even though he never got the credit in, uh, in the thing, because I was performing in the piece.

It was a three person piece. And I realized I wasn’t going to be able to direct an act. So I needed Myles to be able to come in and help me help save the show and get it up.

Uh, and then just occasionally over the years, uh, because when he said he sort of helped me do the clown show, my clown is not a clown that does a trick. Uh, like I tried juggling, just never got to be the spectacular guy to do it. Uh, but Myles looked at what I wanted to do, uh, which was storytell, uh, the Sleeping Beauty story to kids.

And he said, fine, fine, fine. He just totally dismantled everything I did and just from scratch said, okay, you’re going to tell a story. So let’s just go with that.

And so he like completely reshaped how my clown operated because after that my clown didn’t, I wasn’t a clown that did a trick. Couldn’t do it. Couldn’t do it.

Boom. Does it spectacularly, uh, he’s a storytelling clown. Um, and then as the years went on, I got more interested in mask work and I started leaving clown behind.

And then in mime, even though, you know, you can talk in mind, there’s uses for voice, uh, in that play I did with Myles, uh, helping good directing, uh, we use short bursts of poetic dialogue within the show. Uh, so I started then getting more interested in, in mask work and, um, and, and talk for awhile. So I actually haven’t performed any serious mime probably in 15, 20 years almost.

Um, and the Keystone’s work, uh, the silent movie images is, is as close to sort of the pandemic work that I used to do as I’ve gotten in a long time. And, and, and it was very, that’s why it was very exciting to work with you and, and, and Keystone. Uh, cause it, it’s a wonderful form of theatre and it puts me back in touch with that thing.

But I grew very tired of the illusion and the myths, even though I’d spent most of my teaching trying to smash that myth. Uh, you can’t, it just won’t break out of the people’s minds. Right.

So, uh, and the other thing is I was creating pieces way too big for my ability to produce. So I’ve never written solo stuff. I have like two solo pieces in 40 years.

Uh, Pentatonix would be like maybe the third or fourth solo thing. So I was writing for five, six, seven cast members, 10 really large pieces. Uh, and that’s one of the reasons our mime company, my mime company didn’t get off its feet is because we just financially couldn’t produce the kind of projects I wanted to do.

So I had to find another direction to go. It’s interesting what, what, uh, the limitation of saying to yourself, this is a piece for one person can force you into like the limitation. I mean, there are limitations to theatre, budgetary and everything else, but the more limitations you put on, you’re forced to be more creative and to get to the point where you’re like, all right, this is only one person does this and then you have to create the thing.

And it’s even for mine in particular, it appears to go even deeper than that in the sense that when I was realizing, you know, look, I’m never going to write solo stuff, but there’s no reason why I can’t do a solo show. And so I asked miles and I asked a few other mimes, um, can you write something for me? So I figured, well, people have writers write things for them all the time. So do actors.

So why not as a mime? And one of the feedback reactions I got was yeah, great. And then after a while I was like, no, cause see, I write for myself, right? These are personalized things, right? I don’t think I can write for you. I found that a very strange at the time, very strange predicament to be in.

Um, and so I found myself just trying to follow formats of other guys. Um, like one of them, uh, Bob Berkey is a wonderful clown, famous American and I saw his one man show and a lot of it was, was talking to kids about mine. And so in trying to balance performing mime and, and just wanting to demonstrate it, um, I came up with a show called the mind who couldn’t be silenced.

And it was a solo show where I talked to the kids about mine, where I showed them illusions and wowed them for those few seconds. And then the two solo pieces I had, I worked them into the show and then a bit of mask. So I managed to come up with a one person show, but it was like borrowing and stealing from different elements as well as having my own thing.

This pantalonic piece that you’re working on now, is that something that you wrote? Is it, is it, uh, yeah, it’s, it’s created by myself. Miles has been watching it and going, okay, well, you know, I think it needs to go here or one of the great, one of the really nice things about working with miles is, uh, he listens and for him, it’s like, well, this is what I’m seeing. So what I’m hearing, and then his mind works wonderfully in the sense that it just like breaks up and he goes, well, you can go here.

And then he’ll just start going that direction. You can go here and just start going in that direction. And so we’ll have to go in those directions.

And from what he makes me do, I go, oh, and it occurs to me what, what I want to do. Right. So, uh, so I am creating it myself, but it’s completely guided by, by what miles has, has seen.

And, uh, and miles, your, your piece, can you tell me a little bit about, about that? Sure. Um, um, well, I, I got the idea of a clown magician called El Magnifico a few years ago, and I typed it up and, um, I won’t, I can’t give a spoiler, but anyways, because of like, um, it sort of had political overtones and I got this idea of a clown magician whose hatter gets him in trouble with the authorities and he gets jailed and he goes on a journey and stuff like that to get the world on his side. And, um, so, and then, um, as I was starting, I went to Steve, I said, here’s the idea.

He said, you know, he likes it. And I liked it too. As I started to, to finish writing it, I realized this clown magician is very similar to my clown that I discovered at mime school.

My clown was a very much an intellectual clown. I call him Blitz. People thought it was a funny name.

It was supposed to be Blitzkrieg, but he comes on and assaults the audience with sound and fury. But he, he was the philosophical gladiator because, um, philosophy like Steve and ideas were always important to me. And I liked the idea of seeing how they took shape theatrically.

So I devised his first trick was the leap of faith, where, um, in the mime school, there was this balcony at the back when we did our final piece. I scurried up there, stood on the banister and said to all the other clowns, I’m going to perform the leap of faith. I’m a philosophical gladiator.

I show ideas and all the other clowns, uh, gather with their blankets and suitcases to catch me. And, and I think the legend has it I jumped. That’s the apocryphal story.

I didn’t. Well, I think what I might’ve done was shimmy over and shimmy down a bit and then drop a little bit. But no, I hear, I’ve heard it repeated that I jumped and it kind of blew people’s mind because later on, I jumped off a bridge.

So, um, but anyway, but, um, and his next idea, uh, some clowns invited me to do a show in Cranbrook where they were starting Arete, which is a group that came out of our school year. And he got the idea that he would become an enlightened being in front of the audience so that everybody could see it be recorded and everybody would know now how to become enlightened. And he knew he was going to take the leap.

He didn’t know how, but he was going to do it. And it’d be a gift to humanity. So everybody would go out and they’d have the secret.

You know, once he did it, of course he failed miserably, but he came to the conclusion that, um, if you don’t think you’re enlightened, which I’m not, he kind of convinced himself he was enlightened because he didn’t think he was enlightened, which all the great masters do. And, and he sort of, that’s who he got out. And so then, so then the, I suddenly realized El Magnifico was an intellectual clown and I hadn’t done clown since before my jump.

So I turned it into Blitz and it worked. So now it’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s the return of Blitz, my clown to the stage. Nice.

Um, now you guys are performing this weekend. Uh, is it this weekend? It’s Friday night. Friday night.

Friday night. Um, which of course will be too late for anybody listening to this, but I mean, this is not, this is like the start of Mad Power. Yes.

So what can we look forward to, uh, from Mad Power moving forward? Well, one of the things we did was, uh, we put together a five-year plan that, um, of productions because like I say, Miles is prolific. He’s got a lot of plays, a lot of things he wants to produce. So, um, later on, uh, in May we’re doing a play reading of his play, Ken and April, which we’re going to produce in August.

Um, so we have the Palmerston theatre. We’re going to do that in the fall. Uh, we’re doing, uh, a workshop like Pantalone Magnifico art is a workshop presentation of these two pieces in progress, which we’re hoping to market to as our two person show.

And then the next two person show is, uh, it’s called It’s Your Fault About Two Activist Clowns On The Eve Of Their Execution In An Unnamed Country, uh, argue over whose philosophy got them into the jam. And, uh, and that comes out of, again, the intellectual idea of the philosophies, uh, of, of conflicting. How do you, how do you solve world crises? And there’s the activist says revolution at any cost.

And the activist says no rule of law and patience and social change. Uh, and then Miles has a dream, a little dream. And for all you do, which he can talk about, which we’re going to do in, um, in 2018, as well as a summer school for, um, for young psychiatrists.

Uh, so you can talk a little dream, a little dream, um, is, um, is basically you find, um, he’s been, he’s, he’s a, he’s a social dissident. Like he’s, um, he’s been arrested, you know, on purpose as something, you know, the idea of, um, uh, to, to gain notice to his cause. He’s in jail.

He’s an older man. And, uh, and as it comes out, like people, his lawyer visits him, visits him and says, what are you doing? He starts to dream while he’s in jail and you find out through his dreams that his wife died in an automobile accident a while ago, uh, as a result of him driving while intoxicated. So she visits him and she’s a dancer.

She talks to him in his dreams and he asks her like, like, why am I doing this? What is happening? Because everybody’s saying to him, oh, you’re just compensating for your guilt. And he says, no, I don’t feel guilty. I believe in this, you know? So his wife brings some people who represent parts of society in this dream.

And then, and then he has a dialogue with the guard who’s watching him. Um, and at the end, he comes to peace with what he’s doing and, uh, and asked the guard to bring him notes and paper because he’s going to write it down. And, and then the last thing she comes and he says, and she says, well, you won’t need me now for a while.

And, uh, will we ever see each other again? Well, maybe, who knows, you know, and she, that dream thing ends when he comes to peace with who he is. And, um, so yeah. And, and the guard, of course, not again, spoiler has specific things in his background that relate to some of the things going on with the guy, but it sort of came out of Bill C-51 when it was first proposed because he’s, he’s jailed without due process.

Right. Yeah. So that nowadays, it’s, it’s a huge issue, you know? Yeah.

Yeah. Um, for, for Mad Power, um, how long did it take you guys to go from, we want to work together to like coming up with a five, five-year plan? Well, we started seriously talking about the company, uh, because Miles asked me to help with a grant sort of co-signed for a grant, like a year. Oh, yeah.

I had, yeah, I had another piece called For All You Do, which is about a guy who jumps and is in hospital for semi-autobiographical. He fights with a nurse who’s like my wife figure, and has a heart attack, goes up to heaven, gets some lessons, comes back. And, uh, and I applied for an Ontario Arts Council grant with Steve’s help because I’m, I’m, I’m functionally useless for that kind of thing.

And we didn’t get the grant, but then, I don’t know, somehow we… We just kept talking over the last year or so. Yeah, every time we work together, it does well. And we’ve done other things.

We did something for WHMIS. Oh, that’s quite back, yeah. Every time, it seemed like it worked periodically over the years, and we always enjoyed it, and the piece always turned out well.

So it was kind of like, you know, it’s like, well, uh, what’s the obvious solution? Yeah. So in August, not August, uh, I guess October, we started talking about working on Pantalone and Il Magnifico and starting the company. And one of the things I did when I started Graphic Mime Theatre back in 85 was, uh, I had a business manager who wasn’t an actor, wasn’t an artist, and we came up with a five-year plan.

We had five-year budgets, we had… And that impressed a lot of business people who were looking to donate to the company. Right. And so I said to Miles, well, you have all these plays, we should organize and find out exactly, you know, what do we want to do over the next few years? And part of the key to Mad Power is it also has, um, a self-progression element that, as people come in to the satellite of it, um, it’ll go off in another direction, visual arts, film arts, music.

So that’ll be, um, that’ll happen just as it happens. But the core is Miles’s work, uh, production of Miles’s work and, and teaching. So we decided we’d do the five-year plan.

So between October and… I think also though, I think, like, Steve, Steve is like, um, he may have started as somebody difficult to communicate, but he’s huge as a performer. Like, he’s, he’s… I’ve always been a loud mouth in that, you know. He’s crafted himself into something really huge and solid.

And, um, and I guess I’m like, you know, a frizzing thing that flies all around the room, but can be solid. But it’s just, it’s a perfect balance. And, um, and I, and I respect what, like, Steve has crafted himself into, like, when he does pantalone, he’s got the strength and size.

And, and I, I never really talked to him about his background. I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t have, some of it’s interesting to me, but, um, but anyway, there’s a really good balance, you know, and, um, it’s also, I think we also believe philosophically, um, I mean, okay, not that, you know, um, Hollywood, Bollywood, anything was ever always knocking at the door, but we never actively pursued, um, anything other than the integrity of our work. And he’s got that in spades and we just, you know, there’s no fights, there’s no fuss, there’s no ego, but there’s almost no ego, very little.

And, and, and I’ve got the acting, it just, it’s a wonderful, um, it’s a wonderful union, you know, like, um, and anybody in this business, we all know we’ve worked with people we’d rather forget, you know. Yeah. Well, and I think that’s the key is that, uh, like for me, the admiration is watching Miles’s mind work and just the prolificness of, of how the ideas come and formulate.

And, uh, I get very lost when my mind goes that way. And so I need to sort of say it and then plan it out and, and stay with it. So I think we complement each other in that I can be an anchor because Miles and I will talk about all these dream ideas and then, uh, and then I’ll go, all right, well, what are we going to do? Right.

When are we going to do it? Uh, and, and that’s, the struggle is like sort of that, that push and pull with each other. Yeah. We’ll have a meeting and I’ll go, and then we just, and then we’re there and two years and Matt and Steve are just great.

Miles, what are we doing today? What are we doing now? I don’t know, but 2,000 years from now, dinosaurs will look like us because we did this and that. That’s great, Miles. And it’s always back, you know, the mantra, it’s like the meditation, what are we doing today? And it works very well.

And we’re also really, I feel kind to each other, you know, and very respectful of each other’s talents. That’s really important. It sounds like you guys work, uh, work well together and, uh, uh, you’re recognizing that, that when you work together or something magical happens, which is, uh, which is a great thing.

Absolutely. And absolutely does. Especially because I don’t think we look for it.

I think we just get together and start doing it, you know? Yeah. What’s interesting is you were saying some of the things that, that Stephen was saying about, you know, his background, they’re a surprise to you. And what’s interesting is that’s one of the reasons why I do this podcast is, um, cause we don’t ask each other these questions.

We don’t, I mean, there are so many people that I spoke to, we work together as performers, creators, and we don’t say, so, so why do you do this? Yeah. Which is a fascinating topic to start at. So why do you do this? Which is great.

Um, are you guys, uh, is, uh, uh, Matt Power, do you have a web presence? Do you have a… Not yet. Uh, we’re, that’s sort of the, uh, the next steps. Uh, we’re looking to, uh, we’re talking about incorporating by the end of April.

That’ll happen when it happens. Um, and then, uh, social media and, and a web presence, uh, and Myles is connected to guys who really do that well. Cool.

And also that’s a little bit of my fault because, hey, your fault, my fault. This is the opposite of your fault. This is now it’s my fault.

No, it’s my fault. Uh, you know, Chip and Dale, right? No, it’s like, um, Steve said, okay, let’s go. Let’s get, let’s get the Facebook page.

And I went, whoa, whoa. I dreamed about something like that for years, like having, um, like I’ve got essays, I’ve got poetry and then other people’s essays, other, I, I would want to construct something that, that was, you know, like, you know, the size of a, of a galaxy. But, but I didn’t want to set up a Facebook page or a website till it had all those things, you know? And I don’t know, maybe, maybe that’s just totally too precious, but when we will do it probably at the same time incorporate, but I hope for it to have all those interesting functions.

And also I’d like it to have an element of membership because I feel very strongly as an advocate for, for change as, as mental illness being protected under the charter of rights as, as a minority and things like the media will say, oh, a crazy guy, this guy’s head off. Right. But if you talk to a psychiatrist, he’ll say people with mental illness do not commit more violent crimes.

Yeah. For instance, or if you go in now for a job interview and you say, oh, this is my background. And they say, oh, you can’t, you can’t have the job and you can say it’s because of your background, minority background, they’re less likely to, to say for it to be pursued as human rights if they find out you have a mental illness.

Right. But the fact is, I’m sure I know for a fact, there are people in every level of society with mental illnesses, captains of industry, captains of police, captains of, and they can’t come out in a sense. Yeah.

Because, and also I think it leads to a lot more suffering and even like in any minority that can’t express itself, it leads to suicide. Yeah. So the whole thing, my dream, maybe not in my lifetime is eventually it all comes out.

I think there are a lot, there are people like advocating for that, like to, to stop with the mental illness being something that we don’t talk about or that we sweep under the, under the rug. Because if I, if I have a cold, I’m not ashamed of it. If I have, if I’m sick, if I break my leg, I’m not, I’m not ashamed of it.

But if I have a mental illness, I don’t talk about it or people treat me differently. But it’s a thing, you know, that you can live with and that you can, that you can be treated for. And yeah.

Other thing is that it’s not entirely a negative factor. Like it can mean you have a hugely expansive mind. Exactly.

Yeah. And, and the cliche they always say is, uh, Winston Churchill was bipolar. Okay.

And they say, Oh, can a mental patient have a gut? Oh no, but he can have the biggest fighting arsenal ever known to mankind at his disposal, you know? And then they, and then Gandhi was depressed, you know? And, uh, and then they say Mackenzie King, uh, you don’t know if it’s an illness, talked seances with his mother and ran the country that way. Yes. Yeah.

And, and I have a friend who, um, has something called the hearing voices cafe, which I participated in at one point. And, uh, I found out that 60% of the people in the world who hear voices are quite happy with them and don’t consider it a pathology. Some do.

It’s awful. Yeah. But some say, Oh no, I like my voices.

They helped me to guide me. Yeah. And, and so there’s a whole aspect of mental illness that we haven’t investigated.

I’m not sugarcoating it. It’s awful. Yeah.

But it’s, it’s not necessarily as negative a thing as we think of it. And it certainly isn’t negative. It, if you hold it down and nail it down and it’s not spoken up.

Well, the media has, has portrayed mental illness in some pretty horrific ways. Um, in its history, television, film are full of examples of quote unquote crazy. That’s dangerous to be feared.

And that’s not the case. Yes. Well, and I think another aspect of, of the dilemma is that mental illness when associated with art is often associated with genius.

So, uh, we point to genius artists, whether it’s Jackson Pollock or, or, or, uh, Robin Williams, who was brilliant, even though he had suffered from depression for years. So we go, Oh yeah, if you mentally ill and you’re brilliant. But the fact is that one of the targets of mad power is to produce professional work on, uh,