Alex Dault is the Artistic Director of Theatre by the Bay in Barrie, Ontario. The company recently pivoted from performing classics to devising new work.
Alex is in the process of creating a verbatim play called “The Five Points” about downtown Barrie created from more than one hundred interviews with local people over the course of the last six months. This show will be presented in July 2017 at the Mady Centre for the Performing Arts.
2016 will be Alex’s eleventh season with the company. For Theatre by the Bay, he has directed productions of Macbeth, Romeo & Juliet and Nine Mile Portage. He previously acted in The Tempest, Twelfth Night, Midsummer Night’s Dream, Much Ado About Nothing, As You Like it and was part of the original young company production of Treasure Island in 2002.
Alex is also a member of Single Thread Theatre Company, a company which creates site-specific theatre all over Canada.
Alex has studied at Ecole Philipe Gaulier, George Brown Theatre School and Queen’s University.
@alexdault
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Transcript
Transcript auto generated.
Phil Rickaby
Welcome to Episode 72 of Stageworthy. I’m your host, Phil Rickaby. A while back, I read often Austen Kleon’s book Show your work, which I recommend to anyone who makes stuff. In the book, the author talks about the importance of sharing your process as a way to build your audience. Now there is a part of me that just shutters at the idea of building my audience. The whole selling yourself thing has a certain ache factor for me. And I think I’m not alone at that. There’s something about selling myself, that just seems disingenuous. But then if we as theatremakers can’t do that, how the hell are we supposed to sell our art? I’m reminded of being at the Toronto fringe lottery every year and having su Edworthy remind everyone who gets to show it to the friends that they need to tell people about it. I guess there are a lot of people who are as uncomfortable with self promotion as I am. But she’s right. If we want people to come to our shows, we have to let them know about it, which means we need to build their audience, right. Okay. So in January, I decided that since I didn’t get into fringe this year that I was going to produce something myself. So I booked a space and now I have to write a thing. So as I write that thing, I’m posting about it on my personal website philrickaby.com. Now, since I’m just in the writing stage, I’m going to be talking about how the writing is going and the stages of creating this play. But as things get closer to production, I’m going to post about that too. So if you want to follow along, as I post about this, go over to my site, that’s philrickaby.com and click on the blog section. And while you’re at it, why don’t you do the same, I would love to hear about your process and what you’re working on. So if you have something to share, tweet at stageworthypod with the hashtag show your work. While we’re talking about tweeting at me, remember that you can find Stageworthy on Twitter and Facebook at stageworthypod. And you can find a website and Stageworthy podcast.com. My guest this week is Alex Dault. Alex is the artistic director of theatre by the bay in Barrie, Ontario, a company previously known for performing classical work, but who recently made the transition to devising new work.
When were you at George Brown,
Alex Dault
I was at George Brown from 2007 to 2010.
Phil Rickaby
So after Young Centre?, or Pre-Young Centre?
Alex Dault
after Young Centre, okay, so I was I was in the distillery district campus. And that was part of what drew me to study at the theatre school was that was a new thing and seemed really exciting. Then there was this partnership with salt pepper, which was which when I got there, I realised it’s not really a thing I
Phil Rickaby
was supposed to be was not realised. No, no. But I mean, I think being in that area is great. Yeah. For a student who was the head of acting at the time when you were there.
Alex Dault
I taught him and taught him and okay, yes.
Phil Rickaby
Because I was there in the hydro pillar, Peter wild years. Oh, really? River Street. Oh, okay. And the fear that is no longer the building that yeah, no, but I’ve heard so much. I’ve heard about the legendary days of Georgia. What, what,
Alex Dault
what? What year did you graduate? 9393. Yeah. Okay. Did you go to the there was a reunion this year, there was the 40th reunion or something? I
Phil Rickaby
wasn’t aware of that.
Alex Dault
I’m trying to think like, there were a few people. Do you? Brendan Murray. Brendan Murray. It was was there Brett Christopher? Any
Phil Rickaby
of those guys know those names aren’t ringing the bell? They could have been they could have been after me after? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s one of those. It’s one of those. Those things like that building has, like I know people who like you mark the that the history of the George Brown theatre school by by location. Yeah, their first street location. And there’s a certain camaraderie among the people who went through that because that building was two studios. And one the stories are that you guys slept there. You would sleep every night. I mean, not everybody but like, you come in in the morning and they’re the somebody who would just stayed there. Because, I mean, if you knew that if you were like working on a thing until like one or two. Just you know, what was gonna take me a lot longer to get home. I was asleep here. Yeah. Just sleep and you could do it. You know?
Alex Dault
See that makes total sense to me. Like, you know, there were a couple All funny stories about, you know, it was hard to get a rehearsal room. So I would some of the dressing rooms would be rehearsal spaces and like, I would just book it the whole day. And I would like, I would live in there, right, you know, and people kind of make fun of you or whatever, but it makes complete sense. He would stay overnight. Absolutely. You know, absolutely sleeping the halls.
Phil Rickaby
And then after that era, there’s the the castle OMA campus, right era where I know a few people who went through there, but I mean, the thing about the castle on the campus, everything I’ve heard about that was everything felt makeshift, right. Because it was was transitional. Yeah. Because they were just waiting until the new space got built. Right. And then there’s and then, you know, when I first started getting a look at the facilities at at the in the distillery, I was like,
Alex Dault
we had like,
Phil Rickaby
it was a disease factory of a person sneezed in the afternoon, everybody had it because it threw it. Yeah.
Alex Dault
Yeah. I’m not gonna lie. It was I have zero complaints. Those are the most beautiful facilities. It was a dream, your study in that? That what they said up there? Yeah, cool. I sometimes hear rumours that they might leave them I go to somewhere bigger or something? And I’m like, No, you you know, it’s perfectly it is you got the they’ve got three studios and two classroom spaces, it’s
Phil Rickaby
the problem with with going to a bigger space is you will probably you will find yourself in a position where you would need more students to make it work, which means that you’d be taking in an even
Alex Dault
larger first year. Yes. And need to cut in even
Phil Rickaby
more people. Yeah, I know, which, you know, it’s hard enough like the year before me, they ended with a like, by the end of their third year, there’s test to four people down from 30. And no, the two years before me, whereas the first year,
Alex Dault
the year that was take for me, therefore, from 30.
Phil Rickaby
That was their graduating class was four people. And then the year Directly before me, I think had like 15. And we were about 1415 graduate
Alex Dault
bio arts was Yeah, we went from started like 34 went down to 17. People. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
When did you know that theatre was something that you wanted to do?
Alex Dault
Professionally,
Phil Rickaby
even even before you had an idea that there was like a professional thing.
Alex Dault
When I was in the fourth grade, this guy came to my school, who brought a bunch of kids together in the class. And he’s like, I would just like to create a play. And what that meant was he rolled out this big piece of butchers paper, and gave us what crayons and he just had his draw, and took that away and came back with a script like he created a text out of our imaginations. So that was always that was my introduction to theatre was that it was It wasn’t like, you know, we start from a script and we learn the thing it started, it came from us, it came from our own devising and went through a kind of a process. This guy, I tracked him down using Twitter like 20 years later. And I learned that he had been in Montreal at a time when the theatre there was just like, like, it was in a really kind of a golden age where La Paz was, was kind of a young, younger creator. Yeah. And he’d been inspired by him. He’d been in my town, which is in Barry for one year, and he worked with Ark happen to work with our class. And it just seemed amazing that I’d had contact with this kind of creative spirit, right? So anyway, he that experience really inspired me and changed my life. Prior to that, I had I don’t know, I didn’t really know what I wasn’t really good at anything. I’m like, really kind of clumsy kinds of things, you know. And so, theatre I was, it was something I was actually really good at. And I liked being in front of an audience, as well.
Phil Rickaby
Did you and you just like with this guy, that was the first time realising that you enjoy like the audience.
Alex Dault
I liked everything about theatre and like the creative process, I liked rehearsing I liked being in front of an audience. I liked playing a character, you know, all of the all of the great things were introduced me in that one project
Phil Rickaby
did you do where there was ever an opportunity to do plays through your public school?
Alex Dault
Not not really like but in both my elementary and secondary school, if there was an opportunity to a play, it was like kind of a special circumstance. I didn’t go to any kind of art school or do like a yearly thing. It was sort of ad hoc. Yeah, yeah.
Phil Rickaby
Some of my experience like when I was in public school, there was a teacher who would have us do Do these musicals each year, I’m pretty sure that we didn’t do them legally I’m pretty sure that he was not getting he just got the music. We’re just gonna, like developed his own script. Oh, thank you read the original, and like developed his own that was appropriate for children. And like I remember doing Oklahoma and shit like that. But it was just I think that was just I, as a as a writer myself, I can’t forgive him. But he exposed me to so much theatre, right? Yeah. And then in high school every year, there was like some kind of show there were a couple of years when it was ad hoc as well. But there was like a teacher who would be like, they’d come in and they’d be like, I’m driving this this year. And we’re going to do Greece this year. Yeah. Like that.
Alex Dault
It really relies on on the personality of a teacher to come in and share that, that those skills and that knowledge, and often they have no idea what they’re doing.
Phil Rickaby
Sometimes they don’t, you know, but they have to have the they have to have the willingness to put in that extra hours to do it. Because they’re, you know, they have to get the script they have to get the space to have to have rehearsals they have to somehow get a set built. Yeah, in a school system. They’re probably making costumes or whatever. It’s like the ultimate indie theatre. Oh, yeah, like zero budget halftime Yeah, well,
Alex Dault
this guy this mentor and I’ll name him Mark Lemire because I, you know, I had nothing but respect for this guy who did this thing. He had apparently been hired by my French This play was in France, this Okay, in French Catholic school, he’d been brought there to make a slideshow using photographs and that gave him a box of photographs. It really simple thing. He wasn’t even there as a teacher. And he just happened to be at like a, like a teachers meeting and the principal’s there. And this guy is very creative, right? He’s like, Well, yeah, we’re gonna have like projections on all the walls. This is like 1984 You know, we’re gonna have projections on all the walls, there’s going to be smoke and music, we’re gonna have like this thing. And they were all just like, What are you talking about? We just want to we just want a slideshow. And and then next item, the school play. Does anyone want to do it? All the teachers are kind of looking at their shoes. And this guy just said, I’ll direct your play. I’ll do that. And the principal’s like, Okay, well, there’s no money for it. So this guy would just he would go around just like sourcing stuff like begging stealing. He got the principal to give him a portable to like rehearse a lot to show in. Yeah, I don’t know. He was he did have that indie producer spirit. Yeah, for sure.
Phil Rickaby
I remember doing Greece in high school. And they had, they’ve got the shop, like the automobile department to give them some Junker. And you know, this was the 50s car, but all they could get was like a Volkswagen.
Alex Dault
But still having the car on stage. Yeah, awesome. Like took
Phil Rickaby
it apart, made the hollow and shed took the wheels off, but it was like, teacher was like, I need to make this look like 50s somehow. Somehow I think they did it with the paint job, but nobody gets. But so there was that initial exposure to theatre? And when was it that you decided that that was the this is something you’re going to do with your life?
Alex Dault
When I actually the first season, that theatre by the bay, okay. Brought Shakespeare to marry, they had this big tent by the water. They did Midsummer Night’s Dream. It was my first time seeing like, I mean, it seems to fit Stratford. I’ve seen professional Shakespeare like that. Close Darrell Clora news. Now ad at Citadel was directed it. He was a young director just out of school himself. He’d graduate from Queens. And I just remember being like, this is what theatre can be. And these guys make a living doing this that, like my mind just exploded. Seeing that. I think that’s when I was like, I want to I want to be like them.
Phil Rickaby
Right? Any resistance from from parental units to the idea of pursuing theatre.
Alex Dault
My parents were super supportive, super supportive. I was very fortunate in that like, they they never said, Are you sure you wanted to? You know, maybe they were naive. But they Yeah, I think they they knew they also knew that that was what I was good at. And that’s what I loved doing. And they always were very supportive. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
Speaking of theatre by the bay. Yeah. How long have you been involved with with theatre by the bay? Not as an audience member?
Alex Dault
Because yeah, so the following year, I was part of the original young company. When I was 17 years old. We did Treasure Island. We performed on the set of Romeo and Juliet, it was under the tent. And we actually had bigger audiences. Romeo and Juliet. They had to add performances on to our run because kids love pirates Yeah, of Treasure Island. So that summer was like being a rock star. Right, we often hear that but so so I did that. And then in subsequent years, I was an actor with the company, I was usually the smallest part. But I was like the local boy who’s made good who’s in the cast with, you know, and I got to work with some incredible array of actors, you know, for my age and learned a huge amount just watching, being totally terrible, like Richard rose, like, oh my god, how am I going to teach this kid who knows nothing about acting, you know, to write. And Darryl was the director of one of the shows, anyway, I acted with the company for maybe five seasons. And then, at some stage, Larissa Mayer, who was artistic director at the time asked me to direct a production for them. And the same summer, I proposed that we add a show on to the season, that would be a walking tour show about the history of Barry, okay. Which Larissa was initially, like, that’s totally insane. We have no money. No, absolutely not. And I think I got her to commit 1200 bucks. I said, I’ll do it for $1,200 I’ll create this show and get the actors will make it happen. And somehow managed to create this show to me that again, that now seems insane to me. And I get that or why why would I do something for so little money, but we, the actors, and I researched like the history of very, we wrote songs, we created scenes, and created this tour route. And that was a really popular offering. So then I came back the next year directed for them, again, remounted Nine Mile because there was demand for it to return. And then, I was producing other shows for the company. At around that time, Larissa stepped down, and I became the artistic director of the company. And I started slowly kind of pivoting us more towards stories that were about Barry as opposed to Shakespeare, right. Which some people were, you know, a bit up in arms about and some really welcomed I certainly thought our audiences welcomed in and it showed an increase in ticket sales.
Phil Rickaby
I mean, there can always there’s always some kind of resistance to change, especially in what in, in the theatre, but in pretty much anything. Yeah. So changing from from Shakespeare with people, some people expected to something else that that can be people can be resistant to that. But there’s also, excuse me, there’s also something to be said for people being able to see themselves on stage. Yes. And the attraction of being able to relate a little more to stories about where you’re from. Then these people when they’re 500 years ago, were were didn’t even live 500 years ago. They’re fictional things and they speak in this weird way. Yes, and things like that.
Alex Dault
It’s always Shakespeare, I think was initially very popular. But it was a novelty. And I think in the hands of a great director, it has appeal for everybody like in Richards hands I found Yeah, it could it could reach everyone. James Wallace, who directed for us when you’re young young guy who does all the you know, regimes No, he does. Shakespeare bashed okay man trustful. He’s been at Stratford this past summer. And was there again this year? It is really accessible to everyone and but you need those you need those people? Who, who could do that. I love Shakespeare love being in those plays. And I certainly, you know, I’m familiar with the Canon and I think it’s a wonderful thing. But I just through many, many conversations with people in Barry, you kind of found that they didn’t connect with it right? As much as they as they might. And in fact, the just the fact that it was Shakespeare was scaring them off from even coming to see it
Phil Rickaby
well, because there’s some people who their connection with Shakespeare, which is due to the way that we teach it, unfortunately, they all have they have a bad I like the bad experience in high school. I don’t like Shakespeare, that’s what they’re gonna say. Yeah, is because of high school. I don’t like shakes. Yeah. And I know
Alex Dault
why I’ve gotten it. I go into the schools and teach like a work, you know, workshop in Shakespeare and I try to teach it from the perspective of an actor, you know, who’s who has to deliver the lines and therefore understand what’s being said. And I’m trying to explain this to a bunch of grade 12 students and the teachers are there going? Yes, but how do you know what season does this? This monologue fall into? Is it fall, winter or spring and at any rate meaning no. And what it amounts to is like, analysis. Yeah. And they’re preparing you to like to work in it or something, you know, where it’s, it’s like that I’m like that is that has nothing to do with this play, you know, the way you try to break it apart and categorise Shakespeare will
Phil Rickaby
be horrified by that kind of analysis, I think, yeah, like the way that they teach it and the way that they analyse it, he’s just writing this shit as fast as he can, yeah, to get on stage. And we’re, like, you know, 500 years later, or whatever, like, treating it like, he’s, I mean, he was like, agonising over all of his symbolism and stuff that we’ve sort of inserted onto it. Yeah,
Alex Dault
he’s trying to reach an audience, you know, connection, tell story and make people laugh. Like, really, you know,
Phil Rickaby
when you were thinking about making that change, just shrunk my chair. This is one of those things hit the chair in a wrong spot in your sink. When you were thinking about that change, was that something that that scare you changing from what theatre by the bay was used to? Or was it? Did you? Did you somehow know it could work? Or did you think it could work?
Alex Dault
That’s yeah, I certainly had some reservations. And I did make it a gradual transition. We’re still inside it. You know, it’s been going on for a couple years where I would offer a Shakespeare, but I would also in the same season be offering a local story, like story about Barry during the First World War, right, right. We have those runs side by side. But I’m sort of slowly moving towards a situation where it’s just all local stories. I think that when you are trying to sell a season to people or sell programming, it’s always you want simple, clear messages. Yeah. So as opposed to saying, you know, our 2015 season, we’ve got a little bit of this, a little bit of that to be able to come out to them and say local stories. Yeah, that’s a strong kind of message. So that excited me. Yeah. So yeah, I think I was considerate of of respecting our sort of our audience that has been with us for 17 years. I was also eager to present them with something that was a little bit daring and new by saying local stories as we’re doing this year. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
One of the things it’s always been sort of interesting to me about theatre by the bay. And one of the things it’s curious, because you know, I’m a Toronto guy, that means that I don’t go to Barry, of course, I don’t go to go to Hamilton. It’s I did I did the Hamilton fringe this past summer. I know, like Hamilton, you can get there unless in like, an hour or something like that. Yeah, it doesn’t take that long. It’s not hard to get there. It’s not hard to see theatre there. But I think so far, I
Alex Dault
know. Oh, you’re so well, especially when there’s so much to do here already. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
But even then, like, there’ll be maybe I’ll hear about something interesting in theatre by the day. And I just think to myself, and so
Alex Dault
far, I know, I get there who am
Phil Rickaby
sort of like thinking to myself, like, who has been the audience for theatre by the bay? Has it been local? Has it been hoping to get people when I first
Alex Dault
came in to my role? I asked that question, and no one knew. So we started doing a lot like I implemented a lot of data collection after surveying. And I immediately identify the fact that it’s almost 99% aren’t just from Barry, they’re not from they’re not coming from Toronto, if they have come out from Toronto, it’s because they know someone on the show, you know, it’s, and we had this, we had a tourism representative for the region on our board. And they were constantly saying, We’ve got to get this group up from Toronto, gotta get this group up in Toronto, and advertising in the star advertising and paper sent here. And I just said, I don’t think that those doesn’t matter what we say they’re not going to come up to Barry to see a play right now. Like not, at least not the kinds of things that we’re doing right now. So let’s not waste our energy on it. Let’s focus on getting the people in this region and broadening our share of the market here. Now, there was an exception to this last summer. I we produced goods his first and I worked at the German consulate to bring up German Canadians who have a great interest in seeing photos. And they commissioned like buses or charter charter buses to come up to see the show. And we have people coming from Kitchener, Waterloo and Toronto and so doing something that kind of unique and unusual drew that that group? Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
It’s interesting, you talk about the surveys and knowing who your audience is, which is one of those things that I think is super important about when you’re trying to trying to do theatre is know your audience and know who they are, and know where they are. And for theatre like, like, it’s, it’s almost astounding to me. And yet it also makes sense that when you’re you asked that question, who’s our audience that nobody could tell you? It’s like one of those things that I think a lot of times we don’t think about, well, we’re doing theatre, so people are going to come?
Alex Dault
Yeah, we have kind of a vague idea of who is in the audience. But it’s imperative. You understand that? Yeah. And how old are they? How old are the people who are coming to see your shows, and we learned, it’s like, 18 to 25, then there’s a great golf 25 to about 50. And then 5060 7080, those people are coming. But in Barry, if you live in Barry, in that age where we’re not seeing them, it’s because they have children, and they’re they’re busy with their with their family, we might get that group in for our kids show when they’re bringing the kids to the show, but they’re not coming out at night, to see whatever it is reporting
Phil Rickaby
on, what you’re seeing the vast numbers of your audience
in the 18 to 25. That’s the majority of our audience. So you have to bottle that
and sell that to people because that’s the demographic that here in Toronto and a lot of other places. We’re wringing our hands, because we can’t only can’t get them out, like how do we get the youth out? It sounds like tell them stories that relate to them.
Alex Dault
Yes. And this is going to sound like sometimes people like literally rolled her eyes. Yes. But put their friends in the show. Put their friends in the show. And I it’s and then people go well, that that rings of community theatre and I always say to them well, community theatres also extremely popular and sustains itself. Right? I am not afraid to, to draw like to bring young people put them in our shows. For me, you know, it was a question of ratios of how many local people to how many professional people in the show. But those are very worthwhile questions to investigate. I have a saying that I also that also gets eyes rolled but works magically, in it’s only your friends come to your show. So have millions of friends. You have to you have to kind of build on your networks. It’s just, that’s just how it seems to work in this day and age.
Phil Rickaby
And in how so? How are you gathering? Or how are you getting to know your millions of friends?
Alex Dault
I am involving them in the creation of the show in one way or another. So when we did our world war one show last year, we had our local militia battalion celebrating their 150th anniversary. And they had a committee that was it actually reminded me a lot of like a theatre board. Yeah, but except populated with Army colonels, and generals, and they’re all sitting around. And they’re saying how do we get people to know who we are and what we’ve contributed? And I said, Well, we’re gonna put on a play about your contribution and and tell your stories help us do the Research Help Us Like, we want to have a member of the of the battalion in the show. And they found that guy for us, you know, he had a little bit of acting background, he understood how to assemble a rifle. He knew all the drills and he brought like a huge amount of knowledge to the production. Yeah. But he also brought out the entire battalion show many of these guys had not seen a play in 3040 years. That was incredible. To have it in like audiences full of soldiers. Yeah. You know, that was you know, we did it site specific with the show was set specific. We did it in the the Hall of Trinity Anglican, which is this old, it’s an old church in Barrie that’s been there for like 163 years in the community. And they have a hall that I found it in my research had been used as a rec room for the soldiers when they were staying in Barry before going overseas. You know, so there was this connection that I could draw to the material to this space, and their whole parish their whole congregation came out and saw the show and volunteered to sell tickets and sell cookies and that kind of thing. People when they feel involved, feel an obligation to not only come but to bring other people right see the show. This is this is what I think regional theatre companies should be doing to to revitalise interest in the theatre.
Phil Rickaby
So you’re, you’re, you’re saying that sometimes when we think about get people in or get people involved, we’re thinking, like, let them see what it’s like in a rehearsal, show them a video, this sort of the this, you’re, you’re talking about, like, get them at the photo show,
Alex Dault
give them ownership over there, make them a stakeholder. Yeah, like the citizen in a rehearsal. Like, I’ve tried that, and it’s just, it’s as hard as getting them out to see to come see the play itself.
Phil Rickaby
Because a rehearsal doesn’t look awesome. Sometimes it does, sometimes it’s later on, but like, if you get people at the wrong time, during during a during a rehearsal, if you can get if even if you can get them in, and it’s not going well, they’re like, what, what am I what am I going to do? Like I’m gonna watch this thing. Yeah. So that sounds like that’s been that’s been really successful, as well as the telling the stories about, you know, letting people see themselves on stage. So what are you working on this year?
Alex Dault
So this year, our project is the five points, which is a documentary play about downtown Barry. The five points if you know Barry is the central intersection in our downtown. It’s where five five streets encounter one another it’s a very strange street lot of confused drivers who approach it. The street the intersection is very unusual that we have our theatre the movie centre where the show is actually performed at one of the corners. To the other corners are where buildings have burned down. One when a meth lab exploded and burned to restaurants and a bunch of apartments down. They’ve left that as kind of this weird, like fallow field with like spruce trees and benches. The other side is theirs. It’s where we used to have a Sam the record man was burned down. Now there’s a hotdog stand that is closed during the day. But it only opens at one in the morning and has this massive lineup that goes down the street. And then one one corner, which is a like a flat iron, okay built type building called the Borbon, okay, which has a bar of eccentrics and locals always hanging out on the front stoop. And then a tip there’s a Tim Hortons on one of the corner where, like, pretty sure there’s a kind of a cook, a cocaine ring is sort of operating and there’s constant drug deals or fights happening on it. And when people speak a better downtown, they often make reference to the five points. But for me, it’s a metaphor of five points of view, five perspectives of different groups that exist in Bury, and all have an idea of what the downtown is and what the downtown should be. And none of those points of view have anything to do with one another. They don’t adhere in any way, sometimes are completely contradictory. And none of these groups of people talk to each other. And so we are interviewing people who live in our downtown who work in our downtown who live in Barry work and bury, although their thoughts on that and we are actors are doing like verbatim impersonations of those interviews. And it’s I know that’s, that’s, that’s a huge amount. But the the additional part of this is my wife and I, who are kind of the kind of CO real leads on the project, both study that it called Philip go gay in Paris, or a Tom and we’re approaching it from like a physical theatre on perspective. So lots of chorus, lots of movement, big characters. It’s comedy, it’s funny. And it’s built on the concept of Lucia so like there’s a game kind of underneath everything in the show. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
You don’t ever ever done verbatim theatre before? No, I haven’t.
Alex Dault
I actually had never I know. That’s it. This is a first foray for me into verbatim theatre. So
Phil Rickaby
how does one prepare to dive into verbatim theatre for the first time?
Alex Dault
I feel like that’s like you know, you’re like asking a guy who’s taking waterskiing lessons out of wouldn’t have heard of water ski. And the guy’s like, I guess I just listen to my instructor and I hold on to this poem. So how have I prepared? I’ve watched a lot of verbatim theatre. The National Theatre in the UK has some amazing online resources. They’ve documented their processes of creating shows like block watch. And London Road. Yeah. And I’ve watched those, I’ve read some books on devising, and on creating theatre that has sort of social impact. And then I’m just imagining what, what the verbatim process looks like writing it out and bringing it in. I don’t so because I actually haven’t come to the end of this yet. I don’t know if this is actually the way to go about it. Yeah, we’re having a win. And I should also say, my wife had did the, you’re familiar with fixed point? She did. They’re they they’re doing these intensives right now, where they share their methodology. And we’ve kind of approached them and said, We’re going to use some of your techniques in our own process. They were okay with that. We’re gonna acknowledge them. But yeah, taking some of the things that have worked for them and bringing that into our process.
Phil Rickaby
It’s interesting, that you’re sort of like faced with and you some of the work that we’ve done before, it sounds like it may have been devised theatre, as well, there.
Alex Dault
Yes. Yeah. I’ve done lots of device work. Where but I’m a I don’t know, and this is my company, single thread in Toronto, does we work with history as our source material? So that will be newspaper, old newspapers or, you know, you know, facts about wheat or interviews with curators? This is this is a totally different thing we’re working in the contemporary, right? I think what’s what’s different is that with history, there’s sort of a need to create an imagined an imagined space built on fact. Whereas with this, I’m finding people in interviews will say things, and I might, even at that moment, no, that’s totally untrue. But I don’t, I’m not my obligation is not to edit to tell the truth, my obligation is to represent the perspectives of people, right. So someone believes that building hundreds of condo buildings in the downtown is going to save it and revitalise them. Even though I disagree, I’m going to represent that view. Right on stage.
Phil Rickaby
Right. That’s interesting. So instead of normally, the playwright or the devisor, might be imposing their own view on whatever it is that they’re doing. You’re, you’re committed to sort of, like representing what people say,
Alex Dault
My thesis is we, my thesis is there are many different perspectives on this downtown. And you are likely unaware of the other four, you’re you’re very much in your own your own sphere, right. I think this and this is, this translates on a more universal, you know, just thinking to to, you know, some of the conversations that have been generated by the American election of people are inside their little world. Yeah. And they they are like editing, whose voice they hear on their social media feed. So it’s an echo chamber. Yeah. And the actors in the cast and I are like, shattering the walls of that chamber, getting outside of and
Phil Rickaby
talking to people. And anything that you’ve learned that you care to share about the different perspectives about the downtown?
Alex Dault
Sure, I mean, I’m trying to fit a lot of Of course, yeah. Well, there’s one group, there’s a group of people that I have learned to have more respect for. And that is, I used to call there was a group of people I used to refer to as Duck Dynasty. And I would encounter Duck Dynasty when I was working on Promenade days, which is a festival in barre trying to get people to come to see our our place, right. And most people are, you know, will at least talk to me for a couple minutes and let me do my spiel right and you know, sir, Hamlet is a great thing. You gotta come see it. But there are people who were like, army fatigues, and I’m camo and like, they always have like, you know, long, greasy hair, and it’s, you know, they wear sunglasses and yeah, I’m always kind of I used to kind of be disparaging of that group people. cuz it’d be like, like, I don’t know, it’s just I think I think of the stereotypes the sharing the associated with that group people but through our work we have gone out to, you know, people who are doing ice fishing or people who’ve gone out in the woods and talk people like hunting calves and ask them about what do you think of burial? Do you think of the downtown and kind of going onto their turf going into their territory? I’ve my eyes have kind of been open to what it is they do and what like, what that worldview is what that lifestyle is. What’s beautiful about that? Why that is something that you would you would do and kind of embrace and represent all the time live? And how out of my own depth. I am when I’m there. So I completely understand why like, why would they want to see a play that has nothing to do with what what they’re doing on a day to day basis? Right. So that’s one group that I’ve kind of, sort of grown to have more respect for him through doing this.
Phil Rickaby
Interesting. There’s, there’s the you’re mentioning that on one of the five points, there’s a theatre, and you’re gonna be performing in that theatre. Yeah. Have you learned anything about what the people that used to think of theatre that you didn’t know?
Alex Dault
I’m planning to ask? Okay, that question. We haven’t gotten there yet. I didn’t want to start with because I’m worried, too. It would be too much like, too self indulgent, right, like navel gazing. But it has absolutely been on my mind. Yeah. Partly because I kind of know what some people would say, like, you know, on prominent days, I stand aside for three days, eight hours at a time. And I talked to hundreds of people and I say, Would you like come to the theatre? And I get a lot of people who say, I hate the theatre. A hate to the Matey centre. I, you know, yeah, that that is not like, we don’t do that. Right? There is a significant proportion of people who do not like the theatre
Phil Rickaby
for those people do have a sense of what is it the concept, is it but they they have an idea of what theatre is that they don’t understand? Or are they those I saw play once and I didn’t like it. Because I’ve encountered those people.
Alex Dault
There’s some of that, yeah, there’s I saw play. When I was in the sixth grade, I did like it. And I always kind of yell at them as they go into the street. I almost feel like obligated to do it. I’m like, give it another chance. Give us a chance. Right? Because I know it’d be.
Phil Rickaby
It’s like, it’s the one art form that people feel comfortable saying, I play once and they don’t like it sounds like theatre. Oh, yeah. If they were saying that, like nobody says, Oh, I saw a movie once that I didn’t like so
Alex Dault
I hate hate all movies where I saw, even like, I saw a painting. I didn’t like the painting. Or I saw a picture
Phil Rickaby
as a TV show that I didn’t like, and I’m done with TV now. Yeah, that doesn’t happen with theatre. There’s something about it that makes people say, Yeah,
Alex Dault
I think it’s a time it’s because it’s a time based medium, it demands a certain amount of your time. Sure. And whereas a painting, it’s like no, no, I can look at it for five seconds and then be on my way. But then with movies, it’s so kind of built into popular culture that you know, somehow it’s certainly that’s that I don’t know. Yes. I don’t know. I mean, if I understood exactly why people will hate it theatre I,
Phil Rickaby
you know, you could bottle it and like and like sell it to as a solution.
Alex Dault
I used to hate onions. And I didn’t eat onions on anything. I’m like, don’t I don’t want onions that anything. It’s but now I love them. They’re great because I tried them in a few different dishes and it’s not rational. I don’t think it’s ever rational.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, it’s one of those in tough times. I think that part of it is because of the effort to go to theatre. There’s a movie theatre on like, everybody knows where their local movie theatre is. Right? And they know how to get to it and they know what’s playing their theatre, you usually have to travel a little bit to get there. If you have to take the car out, get babysitter, you know, you’re gonna be there for a couple hours. Probably going to get dinner beforehand. There’s all of these efforts that we tell ourselves, and I could just stay home and watch Netflix.
Alex Dault
Yes. Oh, yeah. Like last last night. I was invited to go see. Stupid fucking bird. Yeah. And like I had a free ticket to see the show. But I’ve been rehearsing all day, right. And I was coming back into Toronto on the bus and I I had this moment of as you just tell them, I’m sick. I can’t go and then I’m like, No, suck it up. I heard shows great. And I’m so glad I went right. It was like, so do you see it? I haven’t seen Oh, man. It’s good. Yeah, it was wonderful. It was exactly what my soul at the time. It was so refreshing. to see, and I, I drew great energy. Yeah, from seeing it.
Phil Rickaby
It’s interesting when a theatre finds their audience, I was talking with eldritch theatre a little while ago. Cool. Yeah. And there’s a guy, there’s a group, then like, he knows, like that audience waits for him. Like that audience if he doesn’t do his show at Halloween, they’re emailing saying, Why, where’s your show this year? What are you doing this year? Like they they’re hungry for what he does? And when you manage to find that, that’s so much gold, but to find that you have to know who they are.
Alex Dault
Yes, absolutely. So and that starts with making decisions based on evidence and doing data collection. Yeah, it does start with that. Yeah, I actually, you know, we started out by talking about how to work in, in it. Yeah. Like, that’s something I kind of learned from working here as they, they don’t make decisions without a huge amount of data, right to back up those decisions. Right. And I kind of was impressed by that. And I thought, why aren’t we doing that more in theatre at the indie level? Anyway? I think you know, the answer is because we’re barely able to put the shows on we’re so you’re stretched so thin. But it is with with theatre by the bay, it’s a regional company, I’ve got a little bit more of a foothold a little bit more. We’ve actually had an office, which is great. Some computers, some are staff, I actually have the resources to collect data. So it’s it’s a priority. When you
Phil Rickaby
were talking about starting to collect the data, was there any resistance to finding to that? With who the people on the board or the people that you were working with? Was there like resistance to like answering the question, or were they into it?
Alex Dault
No, there wasn’t resistance, but there was resistance to listening to, to decisions made based on that evidence. People, you know, on the on the board had really, they had an anecdotal understanding of the audience, and they come to that anecdotal, understanding. And then I was just saying that’s not necessarily true, right. That’s obviously where that audience is coming from.
Phil Rickaby
Do you remember what the big surprise and data versus the anecdotal was?
Alex Dault
That audience? I’ll yeah, I’ll give you I’ll give you the big one. Okay. It was that the majority of our audiences were coming because they knew someone involved in the show. But and that number was so astronomically higher than social media, or television, radio, newspaper advertising, like they came. And maybe maybe they saw, of course, you know, there’s always that thing of, there’s that triangle or whatever, you know, you see it in a couple different places before it’s You ready, all that compulsion? But they came because like, they identified as having come because they knew someone involved in the show. And it was like, you know, it was a bar graph. And that bar was like, 100 stories taller than anything else. And it was that thing of, I think, I think the block for people is, well, that’s embarrassing. They only came because they you know, they knew somewhere in there. Oh, that’s embarrassing and right. And I’m like, No, we just need to understand how that kind of operates. And I actually that so that that was from a production of as you like it that we’ve done. And I said, Okay, I’m going to take the evidence, I’m going to apply it to this production we’re going to do about World War One that we devised. We were researched, devised, created with I made this huge local cast I like I put the ratio higher on local actors, all local technicians. I brought in my my team of ringers to act as designers I want local costume designer involved all these different groups in it. We sold out three weeks of shows. It was a it was like and my my evidence was completely backed up by them by that result like and I’m going to do it again with the five points. That’s going to happen again, because as we’re doing the interviews, we’ve I’ll give you one before you go we’ve got these postcards that have the sort of media for the show five points, you know, a documentary playbook buried on the back. There’s a there’s a little dotted space fill. You have been interviewed for the Five points your story, right? You know, Alex’s data will be featured. That’s not a good. But you will be featured in the show on these dates and like you put that up. So you’re gonna, your story is going to be a shelf, right? We’ve already got hundreds of these out there. And I know that our message is starting to reach, because people are when they see me in Mary and I, I’m around a man about town. Yeah, they’re saying, Oh, I hear you’re doing this show about downtown Barry. That’s really cool. The word is spreading. Right? It’s good.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, that’s good. And when when does the five points happen? When is this happening?
Alex Dault
That’s going to be July 19 to the 29th
Phil Rickaby
Okay. It’s a relatively small window, it is there is there Shakespeare along with that is it or is this what the bay is doing?
Alex Dault
So so the the the shows are the five points land of make believe which is like a Panto, okay created by two two local creators that that’s, you know, toured schools, that kind of thing. And then we are bringing back our world war one show in November. That’s like Remembrance Day. And then it’s going to tour the county go to baseboard and nice.
Phil Rickaby
Yes.
Alex Dault
The season so it’s our first season not doing a classical production or big musical. Has anybody complained about that? No,
Phil Rickaby
no. Amazing. haven’t heard a word. That’s that’s that’s the I mean, it’s interesting that we would think, like, my anecdotal opinion on that would be that there would be people who’ll be like, why Android checks were this year. I don’t know, if you. And I know, you know, that people who will be complaining about the lack of the musical or the, or the Shakespeare, yeah,
Alex Dault
I held a retreat of artists. Maybe there were 10 artists, we went up to a cottage in Muskoka. And two of the actors said, Well, you gotta be careful, you know, like, people are going to feel left out or left behind by it. And like, you know, I think we should still be doing Shakespeare but that were those were the actors. And the actors. Of course, they love doing, of course, to Shakespeare, because like, I mean, I’ve been an actor and tonnes of Shakespearean plays. It’s a rush. Yeah, of course. So I don’t know. It’s it’s there. Like, I haven’t had any audience members yet feel like you should be doing more Shakespeare. I miss. I was I have dozens of people writing to me saying, I loved how you featured story about my grand father, my great grandfather, I had descendants of characters in the show, call me and say like, Man, my great grandmother, who ran the Red Cross would have been so honoured that you did this, like? I don’t know. So yeah, it leads overwhelmingly to a positive response to doing that.
Phil Rickaby
There is I mean, we have in in I don’t know about many other places in Canada, I think this is a I don’t think it’s just Canada. I think we do this a lot. We lean on Shakespeare a lot. We lean on the classics a lot. But we lean on on Shakespeare pretty heavily. And partially, because I think, you know, you don’t have to pay royalties, because he did. But also, I think, because we lacked the confidence to put our stories on the stage. And I think I think that from what you’re saying from this, you have a body of evidence that says, Put your audience on the stage. And they will come to see they will come.
Alex Dault
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. You said it very well. I agree with that. And I’ve Yeah, and I think I’m certainly not calling for a I will read something that said a five year moratorium on Shakespeare not calling for a moratorium on Shakespeare. I I’m really speaking very specifically about Mary. Yes. Yeah. And it’s based on 17 years of experience with that particular audience. Right. Barry is unique in that it doesn’t have a university, right? It doesn’t have a theatre department. There isn’t like there isn’t a kind of familiarity with, like a Chekov or an Epson. Right. You know, those those names I don’t think mean as much in that community right. So you have to take a different approach with them it’s actually there’s but there’s such exciting opportunities inside that yeah, you know,
Phil Rickaby
Well it’s interesting because because I mean, how many of the people who are living there know their own stories like they know their story but they don’t necessarily know the story of their you
Alex Dault
know, they don’t they don’t like you know, the that was, you know, with nine mile Portage people are said oh, that’s why I bury was built here. That’s how we came to be. And I drew this, you know, there’s there’s this sort of thing of why is our downtown such a sloppy shit show with all the bars and everything. And in them on Portage, I had this big scene where it was just talking about when we had 36 people living in the town around the little Portage site. We had two bars in two taverns for 36 people. And then there were more like, because the industry was all around alcohol and people staying overnight before they went on, right on the portage, travelling to the Great Lakes. So kind of at our, our foundation at our core, we’re a town that like loves whiskey, and we love we’d love alcohol. And then of course, that’s the Yang to that is a strong Methodist community that resisted that and oppose that, right. And as always, kind of kept the alcohol thing in check from getting too out of control. But I sort of identified this is like core to who we are. So don’t don’t be too frustrated by it. It’s like this is existential,
Phil Rickaby
do you know? I mean, having having been from there and knowing like, do you know, like, because Barry doesn’t have a university? Is there an industry? That’s not whiskey? It’s not drink? Is the weather? Like, what is the like? Who are the people who live in Barrie? Do you know? Because I always think of barriers, people, people who live there so they can work in Toronto? Yeah, Bill, that’s
Alex Dault
a huge section of the population. It’s a sleeper community for Toronto, especially the south end of Barrie, they, you know, if you want to be able to afford a nice house, I mean, one time that the the house prices are very skyrocket, right, of course, 30% jump this year. So that’s, that’s one section of the community. There’s old Barry, there’s people who’ve been there for generations. And they are, you know, they exist to kind of often serve that population, they run all the kinds of the retail stores, these established restaurants, they’re professionals that the dentists and doctors, there’s a number of high schools. You know, they’re the teachers in the schools who like Who else is there? There’s there’s a lot of retired people in the in the community.
And, yeah,
Phil Rickaby
I mean, it’s hard to it’s hard to identify like, you can like put like a thing on an on a place. Yeah. It’s always interesting to say like, I remember when I was in when I was in Winnipeg. I arrived and I was looking around and I sort of thought to myself, What is the like, what’s when and pegs thing? Industry? Yeah, because it’s not you know, I mean, at one point, Winnipeg was built on the railway. But what is Winnipeg now? Yes. I never quite found that out. Yeah. It’s always, you know, it’s always interesting, because, you know, go to Hamilton and I know what, Hamilton wise. Yes. Which is not anymore. It was it was like a steel town. It was Yeah, yeah. And they’re not now. And now there. Is that whole search for what are we had? Yeah, I mean, we’ve had
Alex Dault
a number of of like, major industries in the town. We had, I promise, I can only think of the ones that have have closed down and moved away, right? I think of the most like Molson rivalry, which not only is no longer there, but is now there’s a like a strip mall. On top of that. There’s a huge amount of like, low level retail, right, that has sort of sprung up and I think people kind of bemoan it a little bit like it’s the stuff that makes it indistinguishable from the tobacco or Ajax or with the use of a it’s those those like the these you know, big gigantic parking lots and you know, there’s a Boston Pizza and Cineplex like the power centre Plaza mall sort of And increasingly, the people who live in and work in Barry work in these places, they work in the mall and work in the strip mall. You know, that’s, that’s the
Phil Rickaby
Walmart effect. It is basically the same thing as the Walmart effect of like, the homogenization of every place that we live in. Yeah. But the important thing is that that people have the opportunity to hear stories about where they’re from. And that’s one of those things that can become one of the pillars and the part of the intimate fabric of a place to have their stories told.
Alex Dault
And I’m trying to think of how To expand on that, to hear the stories of their neighbours, yeah, you’re the stories of the people that I think they have constructed an image about. But that is totally wrong, basically. And that I think, will be fascinating for them to see.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, it’s gonna be it’ll sounds like it’s gonna be really interesting. I’ll be really curious about about how when people see it, and they’re exposed to like those point of views that they’ve never even considered the the kind of conversations that they may have, after that, which is
Alex Dault
one of those things that you really, that’s what I want you to I want people to love and I want to generate, have these conversations, I want to generate a robust conversation about our downtown. Yeah. And we even had, like the actors and I had been having those conversations with people on the street and like what’s, you know, we because we always close with what’s your vision? Yeah. For downtown very, what do you think it could be? Yeah. And you know, what a guy standing in front of the Fox Lounge, which is like a great like rockabilly punk music venue, downtown, kind of indie music venue. What that guy says downtown could be is so different from what my dad lives in, Gary is gonna say, like, my dad’s gonna say, you know, well, you know, maybe have some more condos, maybe bring my dad’s gonna listen to this might, you know, get some the the shelters to a different part of town don’t have it all sort of focus there, you know, don’t have like, we have the prison in Penetang, they get a bus ticket and it takes into our bus station. And they, then that’s where they end up, right? figure, Figure that out? sort that out. You know, like, just there are these different competing ideas and kind of putting those out there. And then people go, Oh, well, no wonder we’re sort of stuck in this position. Because this group is fronting this so hard, right, this group’s funding this and we’re just kind of meeting each other and getting sort of stuck,
Phil Rickaby
because discourse is kind of dead right now. I mean, we’ve got this is one of the things that we’ve seen because of our echo chamber, we don’t listen to each other so much anymore. And to have all of those opinions in a room in a theatre, putting people in a theatre and confronting them with these varying ideas in a space where they’ve learned that they have to listen is subversive. And yet also, what it should be like to have people in this space because they are going to listen, and maybe they will come out with a different opinion that went in with, that’d be amazing. That would be amazing.
Alex Dault
And I think also just on a more kind of visceral level, they’re gonna laugh a lot at the recognition of themselves, right? And this the way they pronounce certain words and make certain sounds and express certain ideas like yeah, it’ll be just be like, yeah, that is I want people to be going yeah. Oh, my gosh, that’s so true. And almost laughing. This often happens in for Batum, or shows that are divisive, but a community. You’re sort of laugh laughing before you get to the punch line, because you’re like, hearing a street name, right. Oh, my God. That’s true. Yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah. You almost you almost know where this is kind of going.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah. Wow, that sounds that sounds fascinating. We are basically out of time. Cool. Thank you so much for talking to me today. It’s been a really, really great conversation.
Alex Dault
Yeah. Thank you, Phil, for having me.