#66 – Victoria Velenosi

Victoria Velenosi is a storyteller and tells stories to anyone who will listen. She is half of the partnership that runs Brick and Mortar, home of The Attic, The Box and The Commons. At any given time, she can be found either on stage, behind a computer, or under a pile of cats. Most impressive credits include a list of shows you’ve probably never heard of. ☺

Vikki is a graduate of the University of Windsor Acting Program and Straeon Acting Studios. Vikki believes that every artist has an important voice and, with the right stage, they can change the world. #DREAMBIGGER

ABOUT Brick and Mortar: Brick and Mortar started independently as The Box and The Attic by Vikki Velenosi and Kasey Dunn. They came together in 2016 to form Brick and Mortar and open a third space, The Commons. Each of their studios is unique and yet they share a common principle: The belief that artists deserve clean, beautiful space to work in.

Each space is well-located, non-traditional, artist run, bright, open, and alive with history and charm. Each unit is private and ready for inspiration and creativity.

Brick and Mortar specializes in the tenants of grassroots theatre: creative use of small spaces; the creative ability to problem-solve with limited resources; the intimate actor–audience dynamic; and the cross trained artist.

http://www.brickandmortartoronto.com/
Twitter: @BAM_Toronto
Instagram: bam_toronto
https://www.facebook.com/brickandmortartoronto/

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Transcript

Transcript auto generated. 

Phil Rickaby
Welcome to Episode 67 of Stageworthy. I’m your host Phil Rickaby Stageworthy. It’s a podcast featuring conversations in Canadian theatre with actors, directors, playwrights and more. If you want to drop Stageworthy aligned, you can find Stageworthy on Facebook and Twitter at stageworthypod. And you can find the website at Stageworthy podcast.com. If you like what you hear, I hope you’ll consider leaving a comment or rating on iTunes or whatever podcast app you use. Comments really help people find the show. My guest Victoria Velenosi is a Toronto based actor as well as one half of the partnership that runs brick and mortar home of the performance space is the attic, the box and the comments

before I get into and I want to talk about obviously want to talk about brick and mortar and, and all of these, no, I think it’s important like talking about in this city in Toronto about performance space and and the misconceptions about it and things like that. Super important. But before we start talking about that, I want to talk to you about theatre, and what it was that drew you to theatre and why why you want to do it before we even talk about like, being a person who runs some spaces, like the theatre for you. What was it about it that drew you to it? Or do you remember when you first became interested?

Vikki Velenosi
I don’t remember when I first became interested in the idea of doing it. But I do remember watching the Wizard of Oz theatre Aquarius, and I was like nine or so. And I was very, very shy. And I think I always kept that as a barrier to being able to do it. So I don’t even know how long how long back this went where I wanted to. But I was watching the show. And there were kids in it that were playing the Munchkins that were in my school. And I remember thinking really? Hmm. So I remember like, just like wheels turning in my head being like, okay, okay, well, I you know, if they’re able to do it, I don’t really know. They’re not all that great. I could probably do it. So I remember I don’t I don’t exactly know how it happened. But I started doing Saturday classes and then summer classes back theatre Aquarius, and learning all about that stuff there. I think the I have always had I don’t know where it came from what psychological thing happened to me in my childhood, where I figured out that like, I wanted to climb the highest mountain there was like I like I can do I’m going to do the hardest thing. Why? But I think that is probably a part of what drew me to theatre and art and it because it seemed really hard and difficult and confusing and grand. So

Phil Rickaby
was there an inkling? Like, when did you figure out there was a thing you wanted to make your life? Because there are people who discover that it’s something they love, and they do it like on the side or they do it? You know, it becomes sort of like a hobby or something like that? When did it become a thing that you were going to make like a major part of your life?

Vikki Velenosi
Think really, probably early early on, and I don’t know when it would have been. I think what I struggled with more is if I was going to be allowed to or I was going to be I was going to how was I going to convince everybody else around me who needed to make these decisions alongside me that I could like do that in university or I could do that in my life and how was I going to negotiate all of those details that was more my focus than whether or not it was going to be what I was going to

Phil Rickaby
do is that something that ended up being difficult.

Vikki Velenosi
Um it was a little bit of a struggle. I think it was not as much of a struggle as some people that I hear about i i told my mom that I had to go to theatre school because I needed the highest marks possible and that was what I wanted to do in whizzes perfect like the most proficient at because I was gonna go to law school. I was like, full of shit like, not what I was good at So that was how it ended up, like kind of falling into place where I was like, this will be the story that

Phil Rickaby
she believes that she believes that you wouldn’t be a lawyer.

Vikki Velenosi
I think she might have. I think she might even like, Okay, I don’t think 100% Well, you know what I mean? She’d known me long enough at that point, probably not. But I know that there was a, I went to the University of Windsor. And I remember getting into that school. And my mom’s first preference was that I took either a year off or went back to school. And I think she didn’t want me to go. But I, I do remember getting in a pretty big fight about it kind of being this dramatic thing where I was like, sign the paper now. And she was like, well, well, the strike while the iron was hot, I don’t know, like, this is my moment to be able to get you to agree. So there was a bit of a struggle with that. And I think afterwards, I like, my dad has stopped saying this, but for a good few years after I graduated, and I was in Toronto, and I was trying to do things. And he would say to me every once in a while, like, you know, and you’re like, when do you think you’re gonna, like, come home? They’ve stopped that, I

Phil Rickaby
think, maybe has it figured out that this is taken,

Vikki Velenosi
maybe I think maybe. And at no point were they like, apart from really what I’ve just described, they’ve been very supportive, so And are there at everything and have been so

Phil Rickaby
I had a grandmother who was always like, telling me, I should go back to school. Oh, I was like, You should go back and study computers don’t really know much about computers, but you probably should go back and study them.

Vikki Velenosi
I think of it in terms of a lifestyle that, like, everyone, almost everyone seems to buy into it for like even people who are in the arts buy into this lifestyle of like, you need to get the job to make the money to live. And it’s very hard to shake that it’s hard for me to shake that sometimes where it’s like, that doesn’t have to be the way that you organise and coordinate yourselves. But I think that would be terrifying. If you didn’t see the merit in doing anything any other way. Or you had your if you were to I was a parent yourself. Organised your life like that, and really committed to that being the path you take to have somebody say, I’m going to do the complete opposite. Yeah. You’re gonna die. Like literally, that’s the that’s the fear that I think drives people into that lifestyle as it is so

Phil Rickaby
well, I mean, that lifestyle that is the you know, work, you know, do this job until you’re 65 Then you can do what you want. Sure, is like kind of a miserable thing that a lot of our parents bought, like are doing and have done for a long time. Did you? Did your parents have misconceptions about what was going to happen in the theatre world? They they obviously weren’t happy they probably thought you were going to be destitute or something or I would always say how the hell are you gonna make a living at that? Yeah, um I don’t know

Vikki Velenosi
I would just comes to my mind when you’re talking about it as I shined shoes for about three years, and a friend of mine was doing it first. And she got me a job, also doing it and it was in the underground path. And I remember telling my mom that outlet, that’s what I was going to do as a side gig. And I know he got so upset. It’s just like, I oh, five, please don’t know. I had like, hit the rock bottom. And I was gonna say like, I don’t know, it was it was like I had said I was going to harm myself. I mean, I’m the reality was I made great money at it. And it was like such a good gig. And it was so flexible. And it was like it allowed me to do to move forward and to keep going. Yeah. And so they they also settled down about that after a while, but I don’t I don’t remember her ever having any reaction like that about the arts, but just that one thing. But I don’t know if that was an accumulation of all the feelings you already had about it.

Phil Rickaby
Was there something that drew you to Windsor? Did you apply to more than one school? Yeah.

Vikki Velenosi
It’s interesting. You say that because I know there was a an article on intermission magazine recently about a one of the schools and there and the experiences there and the drama and the but also the treatment. Yeah, and the attitude In the way that things seemed, and I had auditioned for a few different places, and I just got this like, kind of icky feeling about stuff. And had I not auditioned at Windsor, I probably would have just resigned myself to be like, that’s the way that it is. And not everything at Windsor was perfect. And there was some messed up stuff there too. But I do remember the audition process being like, the, like, the clouds parted, and he was like, Oh, this is an actual encouraging, kind chilled out place. And I remember thinking at that time, like, is it because it’s winter and they like, it’s their have their heart up for having people come there or something like I was, I was very wary of like, why they were so nice, but I think it was a it suited me better. I’m not I’m I’m definitely I wasn’t an I wouldn’t be someone who would do well with being aggressively dealt with. And I, that was something that I realised I recognised very quickly at the audition process

Phil Rickaby
was that I mean, that article is one that I was reading. Because I know that I know what school that is. I know that I know who that teacher is. And I’m upset about about that sort of thing. And I think more of us should be because the idea that that could be acceptable in an educational setting, with the excuse that oh, we have to break you down to build you up, except that the building up is first off the break you down is like bullshit. And the build you up doesn’t happen.

Vikki Velenosi
Right? You know, the build you up doesn’t happen that then

Phil Rickaby
the whole point of it is like is boasting it’s a power trip.

Vikki Velenosi
So you man, you’re not I mean, I don’t think you could responsibly whoever you are. If you’re if you’d if you were your psychology was your main focus in life, could you responsibly break someone down? I like how can you we’ve gone

Phil Rickaby
we’ve we’ve gone from the education of actors being break their bad habits down. Right, which is break, which is what it should be is what we’re going to break down, you know, show you bad habits and break you have them or whatever, like getting rid of those. And it’s become like we’re going to break you down.

Vikki Velenosi
Just like something lost in translation.

Phil Rickaby
I think it’s a completely messed up thing that is far too prevalent in the education of actors.

Vikki Velenosi
Yeah, no, I I knew I didn’t know the person who wrote the article, but I didn’t know about similar stories. And I even then still just read that entire thing. My jaw on the floor. Yeah. i Oh, my God.

Phil Rickaby
I didn’t know why there because I’ve heard stories about about where that school has fallen to, under that, that teachers that had of acting’s leadership, leadership air quotes. And it saddens me that it’s there, that that’s where it’s gone. And everything I hear is worse all the time. Because what ends up happening is you’ve got these people who are so like, I understand that the teacher is probably telling themselves Oh, you know, we only had the strongest actors to come out of the programme, the ones who really wanted to they’re continuing with it, that they’re justifying this horrible treatment in making people not love the business.

Vikki Velenosi
Well, I think there’s a anywhere where you’ve got a treatment like that even I don’t think they he I don’t think anyone would be a teacher or a professor in any case, if they didn’t in some way. Or even just in always think that they are are helping and doing the best thing and I I’m stressed about it because it’s it’s frustrating to know that there are people who are have a love for storytelling, have a love for acting, have a love for the community story relationship and being a part of that who lose sight of that based on a treatment you’ve received in one place.

Phil Rickaby
But I mean, you can I totally understand how that the treatment at that place can totally colour everything when you come out and that’s been your your experience of what theatre is to, to not want to do that anymore. Obviously, you made a good choice in school and one that was more there was warmer and more welcoming. I mean, no Theatre School is entirely warm and welcoming in certain ways, but they all You know, they have their advantages. Your you enjoyed your time there for the most part,

Vikki Velenosi
for the most part. Yeah, I mean, there were if there was like a q&a of like, what could we have done differently? I would, I would say like, I was very shy. And I was, I think I wasn’t the only one who was shy. And I think it’s not just at that school, but I think a lot of people don’t know how to deal with shyness in another person. And they’re from it, I could see the frustration sometimes with professors and I heard a lot things like, just stop being shy.

Phil Rickaby
Okay, oh, my wish you had told me that before.

Vikki Velenosi
So I got through it and figured it out on my own. And I was lucky enough to be in an environment that was encouraging enough that I open enough and available enough that I could do that I had space to do that. That would be my major usually

Phil Rickaby
not like being not shy doesn’t happen overnight. But you did find a place where in a way to come out of your shyness, was that the people? Or was that something that changed in you was that,

Vikki Velenosi
um, I had a couple of experiences in my personal life around university that it was it was definitely like a fight and actually, I had been working up to it for a long time, but it was a very fast switch for me to just be like, You know what? We’ll look it was just really Yeah, it was a there was like residual things for me to figure out afterward. But it was a very hard switch for me. Where I just stopped caring Yeah, so and caring about I still cared what people thought and what I would you know, what I was doing and how it was going to be figured out but I had I stopped letting that stop me and I think that was that.

Phil Rickaby
I think that’s that is the important thing because I know there’s a lot of shy people who that’s like getting past that is the trick and like, you won’t you care too much to let yourself go past it. When did brick and mortar become a thing for you, like when did like running space or spaces become a thing for you?

Vikki Velenosi
So about four years ago, I was living with my cousin at at what at the space that is now the box. So it was her apartment first her roommate moved out I moved in, she was moving out I had someone who was supposed to move in and last minute they failed. And I was this was a I had a spot in the Fringe Festival and I had decided I was going to write a musical and I was going to produce it and I had never done any of those things before in my life. So it was all around the same time it was like no you have no roommate just kidding you have to cover the rent yourself for two rooms so I realised I had no money to pay for rehearsal space so I decided we were going to rehearse it in my apartment so I moved the living room dining room into what was my cousin’s bedroom and use the open space that was there for rehearsing a 14 person musical or something ridiculous like that. So that kept going on and I did have some people who they stayed for a couple of weeks at a time in between stuff then I was directing a show and they rehearsed it there and then I had some friends who needed rehearsal space and so that was happening and then I don’t know what exactly the lead up was to this but it used to be apparently a storage space underneath there and at some point they turned it into like an after hours thing it was like briefly something illegal down there. And I was still living there so I had to leave I made a deal with the landlord that I could stay and try it out as commercial space only and just kind of make a go of it and it was actually it was my my dad who suggested that I try that out and he was like you know just see how it goes. So I ended up knocking down a wall I didn’t my dad did. Although I have knocked down my fair share of walls now since then, but a we knocked out a wall put up curtains, added lights and chairs and a whole bunch of fun stuff and just started going and ended up getting a website going and then it went From there,

Phil Rickaby
was there a like a big learning curve for that, like getting that going? What was that? Like? Like, figuring all that out?

Vikki Velenosi
Yeah, it was a giant learning curve. I remember looking back after, like, I do been doing it for a year and thinking I had no idea how much I had no idea about. That was the biggest thing. I was like, wow, I yeah, there’s just so many different things, so many different factors. I couldn’t even probably list them off all at this point. It helps me to learn a lot about business, and then relationships with people and customer service stuff and is very insane. And I’m, I think, a lot more sympathetic to any business owner. Now. And at the beginning, it wasn’t a business. It was like, a necessity. Yeah. And it was like, and then I had a website, and then I think, I can’t remember who it was, I ended up with some booking. That was like, Oh, my God, they’re booking with me, like, Oh, my God. So I was like, I better get my act together. I can’t even remember who it was. But I, I remember, like, I should open like a business bank account. So I could, you know, accept their accept their E transfer with my business name and all my personal name. And then I was like, I guess, well, I got checks as well. And so very weird. I didn’t intend for it to be a business.

Phil Rickaby
Was it intentionally performance space? Or did you mean it to be a rehearsal space? Or

Vikki Velenosi
when I had actually gone full out to say, Okay, it’s going to be commercial space than I wanted it to be performance space. And I mean, at that time, I don’t really know what else would have been doing. I feel like maybe the storefront was, I can’t remember if they were starting right at that time. But I think, oh, you know, it was it was held 14, that was the only other place I had seen where it was a small place non traditional, where they’ve just like, put up chairs and lights, and they’re like, let’s go and

Phil Rickaby
that was rip sandcastle running at that time, or?

Vikki Velenosi
I’m not sure. It might have been I didn’t if it was, I don’t know, I wasn’t sure about them. But so I did that for, you know, the years that I have and been last year. Actually, two years ago, like a year and a half ago, I guess now, I needed space, and then ended up renting the attic, which is where we are, where we are now. From Casey, and she, she’d been I get an email that was like, we’ve only been open for like two days. How did you find us? I’m extra good. So I rented the space from her. And I was like, I at that time, I was kind of toying with the idea of opening a second space as well, and trying to figure out exactly how that was going to work. And Pam should found the space first. And had really on a fluke, about a week after that getting connected with Casey totally unrelated to the space and then chatting with her and I I was trying to adopt a dog from the animal rescue that she happened to run. And then she’s like, Oh, you play Elsa is I do Princess parties. And yeah, she does Princess parties. And it was just weird. Like, what? No. I can you know, we get mistaken for each other, which is very weird, because we I don’t think we like it’s, it was very bizarre. You know, we started on this journey of just kind of figuring out how are we going to work together and then, you know, I was still kind of looking for a second space. And I was like, You know what, you know, it’d be really cool three spaces. Yeah, we started talking about partnering and then opening another space. And we opened another like this like little known fact, we opened another space that we’ve like, had for four days before the landlord was like, get out. Yeah, so we did all of the whole, like, got that space ready to go up and ready up and running. had people booked in for about two months. And they were like, Nope, doesn’t work. So luckily, we actually were able to stay for the two months that we had at least bookings. But yeah, they were. They weren’t prepared for what we actually do. We were like, we’re, you know, we’re allowed their buggy music, their stuff shipped, they’re like no problem. That happens here already. It’s cool. And it was not

Phil Rickaby
interesting because landlords and theatre spaces are kind of why storefront is now homeless. And I think Unit 102. Also for the same reason. But that wasn’t an issue with your first space with the box. Yeah,

Vikki Velenosi
no. I mean, the thing with the landlord situation, so after we did, so that place was called the station, which like was like very, very fast because it just never it didn’t it didn’t take. We opened the Commons on Richmond, and that was another landlord issue where we had to leave. And that was a whole other long story different and it wasn’t that we were our activities were unacceptable that it was a very confusing, an entire family owned the building, and they had disputes It seemed as to what the building should be used for. So we were put in there in the middle. You were allowed to use the space and rented the space and signed the lease. And then it was like, just kidding. And it was so that was very frustrating. But in terms of like the, the landlord situation, like what a lot of people don’t think about and what I didn’t think about, I remember contacting when I first graduated, I remember contacting Factory Theatre or something like I want to put up a play, what’s your price, and then sending it to me? And I remember being like, How dare you? Don’t you know, I am an artist, like, and I think there’s with because I thought that and I get the sense that other people think that sometimes approached us about space is that you think that there’s no cost associated with running the space and you don’t consider it. And so what worked out for the box works over here works out for any space that we’ve so far, at least at some point had, has been that it is super, super low cost so that we can then pass on the low cost space. And so that’s what we searched for. When I was gonna mention is with a low cost space. There’s either there’s like one of two things, either the landlord is absent and really doesn’t care. Like and like I’m hesitating to say shady, but or they’re inexperienced, or just stupid, and so neither scenario is great. It’s not always a good one to be in. So yeah, that’s sort of with the box. It was, it wasn’t a stupidity thing. I think it was just the, the building is very old. And it’s become a lot of different things. Right. And grown like a, I don’t know, like a weird wild jungle. And I think when the building was purchased, it was already that and so I think they’ve done a very good job in terms of managing all of the aspects of that. So there’s a lot that goes on in there, that probably couldn’t happen anywhere else. What we do, and they’re included, it’s very, it’s a delicate balance. It’s like this delicate ecosystem where everything has to balance and workout and the superintendent kind of keeps a whole lid on all of that somehow,

Phil Rickaby
I have been in that situation with the Factory Theatre, other theatres before, before that were more independent. Choose your options for doing theatre were? Well, you could do, you could do something at one of the university theatres, but you’d never get media there. Which I learned the hard way twice, that the media won’t come because they just figure it’s a university show and to keep them out. Or you pay you got a factory pass right or, or terragon and you ask them how much the space is, and you figure well, there’s our entire budget or anymore it’s I mean, the ecosystem of theatres and independent spaces in in Toronto is sort of in flux and changing. What do you think is one of the most important things that people don’t know about running a space or like getting a space in an for an indie theatre?

Vikki Velenosi
I think kind of just back a little bit to the idea of workspace costs because I when I started the box and when I was like, Okay, this is what I’m kind of doing, it’s going to kind of look like this and then I’m gonna have you know, people are gonna be able to pay to use the space and it’s gonna be super cheap and keep it as low as than cheap as possible. I had to several people say to me, well, it’s not really fair though. You’re taking money from artists I was like, what? And I actually carried that with me for a while. And I was like, I feel like maybe I’m not doing something really fair. I mean, and looking back in reality like, because it wasn’t, I wasn’t calling it a business. And it wasn’t exactly looking at it like that. When I for a long time, when I first started, I worked like three part time jobs and probably like, any extra money that I had went into the space, like it wasn’t that the space was going to continue or not, depending on who was in there. It was just I was gonna just make it happen. So it’s, you know, to say, Oh, you’re taking money from artists as well. I guess Yeah. And then I’m paying for the space. It’s not like it goes in my pocket. I think that’s a big. I think I get the sense it’s a misconception based on some some of the responses, some of the conversations that I get, or some of the emails that I get from people where it’s like, if it’s, I don’t think people understand the difference between spending $50 An hour or spending 17. And I it’s intention from who is running it? That’s really one of the biggest things. Yeah,

Phil Rickaby
I think I think people you know, sometimes it’s like, I have to spend money to do this thing. Is, is there something that you sort of, like, aside from just the fact that it costs money, you wish people knew about theatre space, and especially independent theatre space?

Vikki Velenosi
I think it’s, I want to get like, it’s like something to do with garbage. It’s, I, I think that I think there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of spaces that obviously close and not just the ones that closed recently, like the storefront and you know, what are two which you mean, landlord issues, whatnot, there are also spaces that usually the shelf life is about a year for them, and they’re, they’re up, and then they’re gone. And what I’ve made a point of seeking out, people who’ve done this, and to and where they’re at, and what happened and not and not always on purpose, because I’m sometimes looking for space for other things, or put people in other places because we’re full. And there’s an overwhelming, like, exhaustion that I hear from people and it’s just like, I just it wasn’t worth it. And I so so get that. And even if your space did close because of landlord issues, to pick up again and do it is an has been exhausting for us as well. And it’s kind of about the garbage. It’s like actual physical garbage. It’s as simple as it seems like just it’s about a lot of things. But this is a good example of it. It’s it to operate low cost space means operating minimally, which means spreading yourself for spreading myself very, very thin, which means I can’t make it in all the time. And so something like the garbage would get right piled up. So the garbage piles up. Nobody would you ever take it out, you know, that would be insane. Of course, which, but people look at it as like I paid for the space, I’m not taking out the garbage, they look at it as a one time commodity versus how they can maintain it continuously. And I feel like somehow this gets back to the idea of like, art itself as a commodity or art space as a commodity because it is something for the community and it is a not for profit endeavour when it is well it is for us and it’s it’s sometimes there’s that like, you know, to come in and have like 10 a stack of 10 pizza boxes. And it’s like, literally, like I was up till five in the morning doing you know something for the space and I you know, like my 90 hour work week to make this happen where I you know, get paid nothing and there’s your six to 10 pizza boxes that I’ve got to now break down and take out it’s like so i It’s I think there’s people take for granted how much it how much energy and heart and I Mmm, soul goes into keeping it going.

Phil Rickaby
Yeah. I mean, you were saying about how some of the places that close knit close because it’s just not worth it. What keeps it being worth it for you? You’ve been doing this for a number of years. So like,

Vikki Velenosi
I like the punishment i don’t i i Very recently, I think more so when partnering with Casey and forming brick and mortar and actually looking at, okay, what is it that we’re doing? And why are we doing it? And why is it important and, and there is an element of a, you know, I mentioned to you that, like, it’s the highest mountain I could climb, so therefore, I’m gonna rule that I could do it. And I have a history of just doing things because of that. But I think there is an importance to storytelling. And I don’t think it means that theatre has to be the best one or the only one or I think it’s about creating as many opportunities as possible, to share stories and to share the human experience and to share the human heart that connects everybody that has a greater good kind of a thing in mind. And I think it’s that is where I that’s kind of where I set my sights. And not every day is that it’s not in the horizon like is that in my mind? It probably can’t be. And there are days that I like, I’m like, I don’t know if I can keep doing this. Absolutely. I’ve told this story to people, and I don’t know why they like it. But there was a day where I was at the box, and I was cleaning and there was a hot dog in the couch, like an actual, shrivelled no been full hot dog. It’s like, as I held this hot dog in my hand, like, why? What is my life? So sometimes it feels like just picking up people’s garbage. And then what keeps me going is the knowledge that this is something important. And I think that art hasn’t, for a long time been treated as something important. And so artists have started to believe that it’s not important. And audiences have started to believe it’s not important. And we kind of go in this roundabout like, well, it’s not really important. Well, yeah, you’re right. Well, yeah, you’re right. Like, spiral of downward spiral of non of a lack of respect for theatre and that form of storytelling, which makes it very difficult for then an artist or a storyteller to actually do it. Yeah. So I think creating opportunities for it to start out small, again, is where I’m seeing the most importance.

Phil Rickaby
I think that’s hugely important. I think that you know, I mean, we’ve spent a long time in, in, in in Toronto, and I think in a lot of places, with your options, we’ll hear anyway, being your option is like one of the early stages, or one of the three other stages, which are super expensive. And there’s a certain, you know, what the cost and also there’s certainly, if you’re getting one of those spaces, you kind of feel like you have to fill it with stuff. Whereas in a more indie space, you can do more with less. And you can I love the challenge of working with very little, like, I think about I think about the movie not not Desperado, but the one that came before Rodriguez’s first film, where he was like, I have like, no money. I have a guitar case. And I have a school bus in this town. What can I do with that? And like, these are my limitations, and I have no money, what can I do? And I love like that sort of like the art that can come out of imposing or working with limitations and a small and independent space can really help to feed that. And you You’ve obviously, you know, it’s working for you. I mean, garbage boxes and, and hot dogs aside. It’s like, your spaces are people. I mean, people want the space they need the space. Do you find like, do you find it difficult to keep people knowing about your spaces, or do you find our people for Finding you easily.

Vikki Velenosi
No way. Like that is one of the coolest things is like the total Wayne’s World. If you build it, they will come thing. Like, really. And I know that Katie, there was Casey’s experience too, with I mean, she hadn’t been open very long before we ended up partnering. But she was like, I thought it was going to take me months. And I was going to be like, you know, but it’s people are, people need it. And that’s what’s cool. And important and awesome, is that people are like, Oh, that’s amazing. Cool. I’m glad that’s here. Because I needed it. And that’s nice.

Phil Rickaby
Yeah, it’s, I mean, this is this is great. I didn’t know what to expect when you said we’d be at the attic. I, this is a this is a great look in space, I think. And because it’s unusually like, I think is an unusual shaped space. And I think there’s like, there’s a lot that you could do with something like that. Do you have you found that people have been doing really interesting things with the spaces when they come in? Like,

Vikki Velenosi
I love like, when you when I get to come in and see like the spaces a whole other world, it’s so so cool. What a film crews that come in that make this nice spaces or spaces into like, a whole, really a whole other world. theatre spaces that you want to do things in the round, or theatre companies and you don’t want to do things in the round or backward or not how we would normally set it up and like they see different options and different opportunities. It’s neat. Yeah, there’s a lot of really a lot of really neat stuff that’s happened in here and very eclectic.

Phil Rickaby
Has running a space taken over your life in a way that you don’t find the time to do other artistic things so much or emphatic answer there.

Vikki Velenosi
Well, the show the show that I just did is that closed on Sunday was unexpectedly challenging, with being half of brick and mortar and leaving Casey sort of with both halves. Which I thought, you know, okay, three hours of rehearsal a night, that’s not that big of a deal. But the amount of phone calls that were happening in the middle of a rehearsal room, oh, my gosh, I can’t deal with that. Like, and it was crazy how much of a kind of an eye opener it was just this time through specifically, I guess with the third space, this is the first time with a third space that I’ve done a show or any other like artistic endeavour that’s taking you away from this from running the spaces. Yeah, it’s a bit of an eye opener on how tied to things or how, how much I’ve made myself 24/7 available almost. So I hope that my intention is to is to make some changes just to help that balance. And I don’t think it would mean any less any less, like availability, or service to the spaces or the artists or anything like that. But it definitely does need a bit of attention

Phil Rickaby
to be some balance to the whole. Yeah, whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. Had you before you just did that you actually did a show that was basically put up in a week. Before that, had you been? Had it been almost all theatre space all the time? Or were there other things that you were doing?

Vikki Velenosi
Um, we do. So every year we do the one more night festival. And then just previous to that, so in January, we produced something called the 150 Stories Project. And so we did part one of the 150 Stories Project in January, February. So that was what sort of butted up against this show for me. And then I have produced things in Fringe Festivals and, and then put it up in my own festivals that are happening. And so I kind of use the festivals that I’m doing as outlet like, double duty to let me do my own stuff.

Phil Rickaby
It’s all great. I mean, being involved in a festival is a great feeder for stuff that you see something that could work in a space. Yeah, yes.

Vikki Velenosi
There The one run a festival has been a great way for me to connect with different artists and different producers. And so the premise of it is you can put your show up one more night. So it’s something that has to have been produced somewhere else at some point when there’s really no other restriction on it. So

Phil Rickaby
so it doesn’t have to be like a Fringe Festival. It

Vikki Velenosi
can be anything, it could have been anything. And so there are people who’ve done things that they did at school, or like it was a project at some point that they’re like, Oh, I haven’t revisited that. I really like to just put it out, see what happens or shows that we’re out of town. get chance to read do it for people who know that. As simple as that is, it’s really lovely to be able to put something in front of the people who want to see it. Yeah. And then yeah, sometimes it’s just shows that we’re like, hey, we have this run. You want to do it again? You get one night at it. Yeah, it’s a simple show. And I find that that like the the challenge of that brings out really cool. We’re gonna do it anyway. attitudes. So I it’s a really nice collection of people that just find find us themselves.

Phil Rickaby
That’s great. Do you do one more night festival? Do you like you? People coming to you for that? Do you? Are you seeking them out? You’re advertising for

Vikki Velenosi
put out a call for it and just say this is what’s happening? Cool. Let’s do it.

Phil Rickaby
Now the 150

Vikki Velenosi
or 150 Stories Project or repurposing? So you did half of that? Not even half? It was like part one? I think there was gonna be three parts of it. Okay. Like, Yeah.

Phil Rickaby
And do you know when the next part is going to be?

Vikki Velenosi
It’s scheduled currently for May? Okay. And it may, I may have a bit of a schedule change. But I that’s what’s going on. Now. That project is was really cool. To, to try.

Phil Rickaby
Can you tell me a little bit about what that project is?

Vikki Velenosi
Yes. So when our second new space was closing, in like, a span of four months, we were really exhausted. And we were actually trying to keep that space somehow. And so it involves trying to find grants for renovation to try and like, convince the landlords let us stay. It was kind of a shot in the dark. But we were looking at different renovation grants. And we’re doing some I’ve never written a grant in my life Casey Casey has, so she’s the expert on it. But I was where I were, I was researching some things and went, I don’t know, maybe this information will help. And we came across some statistics for artists, and I can’t remember the exact wording of it, or even where it came from. But it was something like 3% of performing artists make a living in Canada. Yeah. Yeah. Like as a performing artist. Yeah, that’s, that’s an event. And it was a bit of a sobering piece of information, but also really the piece of information that like took us out of the rut of having our space close. Because what, no, no, that’s ridiculous. How is that a thing? And a lot of the support realise that a lot of the support that exists for artists and for actors, is about helping them get into that three percentile. Like, here’s how you get that job. Here’s how you get that, here’s how you make your career. But what they mean is that this is how you make that career that is 3% of people able to maintain or have happen. We’re where is the support for expanding that number? Like, why isn’t still 3% So we weren’t sure if we were gonna, like start a school or what we’re gonna do about it. Okay, so this was what was born out of that was 150 Stories Project, which we were we took creative entrepreneurs, but we’re calling them people who had a drive to create and have it be their own, and they weren’t going to wait, that was sort of the criteria that we’re looking for. And we contacted people that we experienced and things like the one we’re night festival are different fringe or different places we’ve been or who had done shows in the space and we approached them and we said look, you would you be willing to do this project and what it entails is you pick a community in Toronto, and it doesn’t have to be bordered by physical communities. It could be anything at all. It could be the one of them was the acquired brain injury community and If you put together a group of 10 artists that will each interview one person from me, for example, the acquired brain injury community, and then you come together put put on a piece based on those stories. And then you put that up once the box once the attic and have that experience and the idea behind it and what actually did end up coming out of which was sort of a reset the hope and was also to have a bit of a reset button on, okay, we’re going to try and create something that is super meaningful for one community and just be really specific about it. And when you have a small space and space with 50 seats, you can afford to be that specific. And I think we while we’ve had these kinds of spaces in Toronto for a while, I think we’ve still been thinking in terms of, or creating in terms of like creating as if we have 1000 seats, right? Like, we’re like 300 seats to fill every night and just hoping 50 People come versus actually looking at, hey, we have this really intimate space with this really cool ability to be very niche with what we create. So we ended up having five groups, do their shows, this time, with amazing results and such cool experiences, and people just really floored and excited about what’s happening. And then also, each of the artists that created things, not all of them had ever produced anything before who had done anything. And so it’s like, okay, well go for it.

Phil Rickaby
Tomorrow. Well, it’s always fascinating that you can do it, right. Yeah, it’s like, oh, I can do it. A lot of us spent I don’t know, when I was in theatre school, it was about nobody talks about producing your own work, except if it was like, oh, you know, maybe you should leave school and do I don’t know, a friend or something like, that was like when this was like, this was like, early 90s. So it was like, fringe was barely a thing. For a nobody talks about self producing. And that was like self producing. You failed. And now it’s like, yeah, and now it’s like, that’s part of your career. But to find out that you can do it is like, Oh, I, I can successfully do this thing. It’s not magic. Yeah.

Vikki Velenosi
It feels like maybe, but yeah, but I know, I think that’s the and that is has also become more focused is the message of brick and mortar is that like, you can do this. And there’s no, like, it’s not about it’s when people talk about making it. It’s about like, you make it like you can actually make it and that’s a change that and what I mean, I graduated in 2009. And that was it was still like, Well, I mean, I guess you could start self producing,

Phil Rickaby
which were Jack’s worry about that is that I think even in 2009 it was like a, like, it wasn’t unheard of, for that to be part of the theatre, your theatre trajectory. But I think the theatre schools are like, still, sometimes in that world of well, our job is to prepare you to go to the audition, get the job, go to the next audition, get the job. That’s the career you’re gonna have. I’ve spoken to. I’ve been doing this for over a year 66 podcasts. I’ve spoken to people, that’s their career, everybody else that I’ve spoken to, is somebody who’s like making stuff. And that’s the New

Vikki Velenosi
Paradise they in a way that was such a huge thing for me. I was lucky I very soon after I graduated and the fringe slot and for whatever reason, they decided this is the climb the mountain thing. I was like, I’m gonna just do the biggest thing. But it did give me that confidence to say, oh, it’s not magic, oh, I can actually do it. And so that snowballed me in that direction. So I didn’t really have to sit in that world of needing to audition all the time. And it works for people and it was for some people, it’s fine, but it’s it’s I’m lucky to have figured it out early that I didn’t have to do that because I don’t think it would have sat well with me. Long term. Yeah. Even though the small amount that I did it was just so draining for me that I don’t know that I would have been able to continue

Phil Rickaby
I know that I wouldn’t have been able to continue because you know going to auditions and not getting the job is so can be so monotonous like demoralising, whereas Chris writing your own thing. And like having people respond to it is so energising. Can I ask you, I mean, early on, we talked about that fringe slot that you somehow got, and you decided that you were going to create a musical. Did you actually create that musical? I have to know. I have to know. Okay, well, it’s called the princess of porn. The musical. Okay. I feel like I remember that. I feel

Vikki Velenosi
like it’s pretty memorable.

Phil Rickaby
No, that is that is. And you’d never written a musical. So no. Did you like find somebody who could write music and be like, please write this thing for me? Yes.

Vikki Velenosi
Had I had parted with a composer who was like friend of a friend. And it’s like, cool, you can do this. And that’ll be great. And we had these production meetings and at the start actually had a writing partner and then he ended up not continuing with it. And so we went into our first rehearsals, like we auditioned people cast them went into our first rehearsals, and we did not have one page of music. There’s no music writing. So I was at a bar singing karaoke with some friends. And there was like, an another friend was like a friend of a friend who was also there with us. And he was talking about how he was the composer and I was like, Hey, you want to compose a musical? And he’s like, cool. Do you want to listen to any of my stuff was like no. I lucked out. I mean, it was a spoof, it was spoofing Disney stories, and he happened to be like, the top Alan Menken fan ever so he had was like, just perfect. It fit really, really well. And so yeah, that was like written As the process went, I don’t know how, like, we were probably the day before and new pages were going out. It was like, Okay, we’ll just try to do this. And you know, what it like, in terms of what the content was and how it was put together and the production process, it was a pretty big mess. But it that’s where I was going to continue on. That was the first step because it was you know, make I made a lot of mistakes there, but I wouldn’t make them again, so you

Phil Rickaby
only ever make miss, like, that’s how you learn. You have to make those mistakes. Yeah. Well, this has been a lot of fun. Thank you so much for talking with me, and it’s been great.