Dana Fradkin is an actor, comedian, writer, teacher and stunt performer based in Toronto. Selected theatre credits include; The Things We Do For Love and Smeraldina in The Servant of Two Masters (Odyssey Theatre), Dancock’s Dance and Hogtown (the Campbell House/Hogtown Experience), Acrobat/Clown in La Boheme and Atom Egoyan’s Die Walkure (Canadian Opera Company), Arlecchino in Fool’s Gold (Metaphysical Theatre), AutoShow (Convergence Theatre), Macbeth and Comedy of Errors (Shakespeare in the Square), Vanishing Currents (Caravan Tallship Company), Tony N’ Tina’s Wedding (Second City Toronto) and collaborations with Theatre Gargantua, Mysteriously Yours, Against the Grain Theatre, Cirque Sublime and Circus Orange. Dana is co-founder of Keystone Theatre and co-created and performed in their three successful productions; Gold Fever, The Last Man on Earth and The Belle of Winnipeg (Dora Award musical composition). World-wide festivals include; Glastonbury Music Festival, Vancouver 2010 Cultural Olympiad, Calgary Stampede, Antwerp Theatre Festival, Edmonton Folk Festival, Edmonton Street Performing Festival, Nuit Blanche, Luminato, and Toronto BuskerFest. TV and film include; First Light, Reign, Fatal Vows, HapHead, Cold Blood, Crimes of Passion, Little Phoenix and the Reign of Fists and her short film Satisfaction which she wrote, produced and starred in which premiered at the Puerto Rico Horror Film Festival this past October. Currently Dana is assistant directing the Opera, Brundibar, with the Canadian Children’s Opera Chorus. Upcoming she will be playing the title role in Candida at the Classic Theatre Festival and will be starring in the short film she co-wrote, The Case of the Massey Bodice Ripping. L’chaim.
http://danafradkin.workbooklive.com/
@danafradkin
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Transcript
Transcript auto generated.
Phil Rickaby
Welcome to Episode 64 of Stageworthy, I’m your host, Phil Rickaby. Stageworthy is a podcast featuring conversations in Canadian theatre. On the podcast, I sit down with actors, directors, playwrights and more, and talk to them about their life in the theatre. If you like what you hear, I hope you’ll subscribe to the podcast on iTunes or Google music or whatever podcast app you used. And if you really liked the podcast, please think about leaving a comment or rating. Those things really help spread the word about stage really. If you want to drop me a line, you can find stage really on Facebook and Twitter at stage where the top and you can find the website at Stageworthypodcast.com. My guest is Dana Fradkin. She’s an actor, comedian, writer and teacher based in Toronto.
One of the things that I like about doing this podcast is that I get to ask people about things that actors don’t often ask each other about. I’m going to start with when you knew that theatre was something you wanted to do.
Dana Fradkin
Oh, that’s a very good question. sort of came in parts. I think when I was in grade seven, I just moved to a new school. And they were very mean I’d moved from the east side of Ottawa to the west side. And they were very mean and I got my planner stolen. It’s a Dana’s a bitch on it. And I got really low grades in grade seven. I remember feeling really just
Phil Rickaby
did you go from a bad neighbourhood to like from good news or bad news? No, no, we’re the new girl and
I was a new girl I went and I’m not going to just any sort of race. But I went from the French area of Ottawa, which Eastern Orleans to Napoleon, which is a very Jewish, and very, it’s very cliquey, and these people did eventually become my friends. But when I first moved, there, not that open,
Its always hard to be the new kid in school, especially in grade seven. Like,
I found, like, if we start right at the beginning, you’re okay, you can be okay. Yeah, a little bit. But if you come in, like even a week, two weeks later,
Dana Fradkin
yeah. And just that time of year, that time in a kid’s life, they’re so in their own world. So they’re not embracing new people. So I had a horrible year, I was doing awful things to myself. And yeah, when I got my planner stolen, and found my desk a week later, and like, this is the first week of school and said, Dana’s a bitch on every page, I just went, Oh, my God, what am I going to do? And I sort of knew very early on that I could not go to high school with these people. And so I was searching for what I could do. And I couldn’t go to Catholic school because I was Jewish. And there weren’t very many other options. And someone talked about a high school performing arts and I went, Oh, yeah, Mom, Dad, I want to go to high school performing arts. So then we
Phil Rickaby
even know what the performing arts were at that point. Well,
Dana Fradkin
I was dancing. I was, you know, going to jazz class. And I’ve been dancing for I had been in dance class since I was like a tiny kid and ballet. And then I got more interested in jazz. So it was part of a jazz class, but not competitively or anything. But just, you know, one or two classes a week, maybe my sister danced a lot too. So I sort of had an understanding. And then we my parents, and I looked up going to the school and we realised you had to have at least a B average. And that I did not have I was having like ds. So in grade eight, I like totally changed my focus and really tried to get into the school and I auditioned for dance and drama. Like learned all these monologues. And then of course, my grades went way up. And then of course, I was accepted at school, because it’s the typical thing, right? As soon as I was not wanting to be part of a gang and focused everyone thought I was cool. And by the end, I was like, Oh, I actually really like these people. They integrate aid. But anyway, I went to Canterbury. And somewhere in there, I wasn’t one of the core like, Oh, these are going to be the head. These are going to be the drama kids that are going to like Martin Garrow. Now where it’s a blind spot, Madison, like, these were like the kings of drama. And my class had them too. And I wasn’t one of them, but I wanted to be like them. And so I think it just sort of became sort of a goal to just be part of the game that were Drama and Theatre was going to be what you just kept doing. And I don’t even know if I had that click moment. But when we were starting to look at auditioning for theatre schools, it was like not even a wasn’t even a second idea. There was nothing else I could go to school for. And I don’t know where that must have happened sometime in grade 11. It wasn’t even an epiphany moment. It just kind of was like, well, there’s nothing else I could go to school for.
Phil Rickaby
But it was like it was like there’s sort of things you could do but it was not who you really wanted to.
Dana Fradkin
Yeah, and it just it was it was just my heart. It just felt right. It was like this is what I’m supposed to do. There was no sort of like should I go into drama or To go into math, it just kind of was like no, I. Yeah. Do
Phil Rickaby
you remember what it was aside from from wanting to hang with the cool kids? Do you remember what it was that that was driving you at that point? Was there something you didn’t do a show where it clicked?
Dana Fradkin
There was a show that I clicked actually in grade 11 Because I wasn’t getting into the big shows. But in grade 11, I got commedia dell’arte show I auditioned, Canterbury was doing their own Fringe Festival. It was the first time and some people my year were like creating this big fringe, and a bunch of plays and I auditioned for Arlecchino I went to Commedia play that my friend wrote, and I got the lead. I got a really Keno. And it was my first time sort of really getting something and the director and stage manager were like, really excited about me. And it felt really good. I think there were a couple things, I started to do it. I was like, Oh, my gosh, people are laughing so much. This is such a unique trait that I sort of have. And that’s when I sort of went okay. But it wasn’t easy. But yeah, that’s what I wanted to do.
Phil Rickaby
And then when you started looking at data schools, did you which ones were you looking at at the time?
Dana Fradkin
I think I really wanted NTS like every other kid. Yeah. I had gone into Concordia, me Sam and Anna to my other really good friends all audition for Concordia, we were all in the same audition. But all three of us got in. And I wanted but i i to three people from the year ahead of me at Canterbury went to George Brown, so that seemed to be the place to go. And I was on the waiting list at George Brown. But I got off the waiting list two weeks before Theatre School. And at that point, I was like, there’s no question I’m dropping out of Concordia going to George Brown, and that felt like a real calling.
Phil Rickaby
Well, I’m gonna talk a little bit about about that, because I think that we had similar experiences at George Brown. Sorry, no, no, just just you know, we’re telegraphing spoilers, you guys, some stuff happened. But in terms of Do you remember what it was about the George Brown programme when you were hearing about it that made you want to go? It sounded
like the NTS of Toronto. That was sort of what it was being plugged at at my school. And I don’t know why I thought at the time, it was really cool if it wasn’t a university, because at the time, you know, I auditioned for Ryerson. Oh no, I skipped my Ryerson audition because I’d already gotten into Concordia and I just went for me, I was like, Well, if I got into Concordia, I don’t need to listen. But there was something even cooler about a conservatory programme, opposed to a university, I think I’d heard people say, you know, if you want to be like a Stratford actor, then you want to go to the conservatory programmes. And at the time, I thought I wanted to be Stratford, Accra, which is what George Brown sort of which. I wanted to be movie star really?
Technically, a lot of people did want to do. People want to do that. Yeah. But for me, I mean, I auditioned for George Brown, and I auditioned for Ryerson. Yeah. And I got into Ryerson. And I think I went to the George Brown audition, knowing I gotten into Ryerson. Yeah. But I chose George Brown, because of people were like, talking about the programme. And the business of acting class. I was like, Oh, so this course is gonna tell us about, like how the business works. And I know, for a while there was a little bit weird and frustrating, but at least it was there. Because, you know, I talked to a bunch of people for this podcast, who went to university and they get it. I don’t even know what age it is. Yeah,
yeah. Yeah. Or how to get one. And I think one of the things that attracted many of those ones is something because I got into York and Alberta to but I didn’t like the idea of doing a year of a regular programme before having to audition to get into there. I
hated that about I had the idea of work letting you in, and then they would decide where you belong.
Dana Fradkin
Yeah, I didn’t like that. I didn’t want that. I didn’t want that pressure on me if I was going to get into already focused programme, then. And George Brown just hadn’t heard about the business of acting programme. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I took it, but I didn’t know it was a it was a thing. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
So then you got it. What was I mean, in terms of aside from some of the stuff that happened later on, when you started at George Brown, what was the biggest shock to you?
Dana Fradkin
Like the very beginning? Yeah,
Phil Rickaby
we’re like right at the beginning, what surprised you the most
Um, I actually the first three weeks at George Brown, were some of the best. I mean, I guess I was surprised when you show up the first day, you have to do a monologue for the all three years.
I see. I didn’t know about that. I started like that. There’s like a letter that went out, but I didn’t get so I showed up. And I didn’t know about this. So anyway, but go on.
Dana Fradkin
Yeah, I can’t remember if I knew I must have gotten that letter. I did. But I that was really freaky. Really, really freaky to be there.
Phil Rickaby
But then I was like, scared, because when you’re in your first year, and you have to go up and do a thing, and you know that all the other students, including your classmates are all judging the shit out of you. Yeah,
judging the shit. And then the first play and you just sort of get thrown in, you know, headfirst. And right away, you’re doing a play that you put up into a week to what is it? Yeah, it’s great, but it and then you immediately get followed up with with someone telling you what they think of you as an actor. Yeah. And so it was whirlwind. You’re also trying to make all these brand new friends and you’re there six days a week and but I remember my first chat with Peter wild at that time was actually really positive. After that show, I was feeling really good for about three weeks.
I had I learned in those first three weeks, I was apparently a shit actor. So seconds later, that was that that was like my first conversation with Peter while Well, that was shit. And you have a lot of tricks, and you have to unlearn them. And I wish I was a little bit older than I was because I was like, 18. So of course, I was like, fuck, you have to unlearn them. Fuck you. I have tricks. I don’t know, you know, shit.
Dana Fradkin
But you know, there’s there’s also part of me that wishes I had more of that. Because Because you’re either one of those two people you like the really stubborn 19 year old? It’s like, I know. You’re stubborn. Or you’re the other one is like, oh, yeah, yeah. How beaten down? Yeah. As opposed to being on two legs out there.
Phil Rickaby
I got there. But I mean, at first, it was like, I was like, No, you don’t know fucking shit. And then that changes really quickly. When? Because he is the teacher. Right? Yeah, start to you start to his opinion matters. And I spent jumping ahead. I spent like so many years after theatre school still trying to impress Peter Wilde and my brain. And I do know he loves you. He loves me.
Dana Fradkin
I know. Me too.
Phil Rickaby
So when I only talk to him 3010 2030
Dana Fradkin
years. Now,
Phil Rickaby
I’m on top of the fucking world. But anyway, so for you.
Yeah. So you had a really positive conversation in the first conversation is very positive. What happened?
Dana Fradkin
So by Christmas, it wasn’t a great conversation. It wasn’t horrible. Wasn’t a D like Amber got. It was C? You know, it was like, No, we think you have more work to do. And then like, you know, obviously, or we can get into it like that Christmas changed my life. And yeah, seriously. Yeah, we’ll get to it. We need to get into Yeah, right. So then that Christmas holiday in first year, my father had a heart attack and died and those two weeks and so I had to miss the first week back to school in January. Sitting Shiva. And when I came back, that’s when, you know, school became horrendous. And Paul Lampard, I don’t know, do you like being named dropped this public? Sure. I like I like to call now. This guy, but at the time, he came up to me and he said, I’m really sorry to hear about your dad, if you miss another day, you’re out. And actually, now that I remember that moment, that’s one of the first things that scared me, in the first minute, somewhere in the first day when they said, You can miss two days all year, or you’re out, or you need a doctor’s appointment. I mean, these these sort of rules, and I missed a week for Shiva, and they gave it off, but just sort of the sense as soon as I came back that it’s like, okay, you’ve cashed in all your favours, you know, and it’s kind of like Chem 19 Your professional theatre company would probably be nicer to me about this than you guys are. Yeah. And when Ushaw in scene study was no nicer. So things became very, and grant very difficult from that point forward. I wasn’t in the greatest
Phil Rickaby
state you I mean, of course, you weren’t in a great spot. Yeah, I guess the so when you had started the holidays, you had your first interview, you came out feeling positive,
Dana Fradkin
pretty positive. Like I was like, Okay, I’m not one of the favourites by then you started to see who the favourites was. I’m not one of the favourites. But they believe I have. There’s work that needs to be do I have my blocks and all of that I’m good student we’ll work together. We’ll make it happen. And then from
Phil Rickaby
that point on, I’m gonna Obviously we’re in not a great place, but from that point on, it was sort of a struggle to stay in school the whole time. It was,
Dana Fradkin
yeah, I got a lot of you should leave. You can handle this. You should leave. You should know,
Phil Rickaby
just playing devil’s advocate like backing up a little bit. Do you think do you think at the time? I mean, this could have been like, you’re 19 years old. You just lost your dad. Yeah, that you know, this is like you stubbornly hanging on do you think you should have? Well, if you know, you can leave now can I?
Dana Fradkin
Can I can I come back if I heal in a year? And they did? I think they did give me that offer. It’s I’m still not sure when I think back to the state of mind I was in at that time. I can’t imagine not having somewhere to put my focus. So had I dropped out. I’m not quite sure what I would have done with myself. To get a job at a restaurant I think would have been like I did for the summer was horrible, you know, and the school gave me a reason to get up in the morning it gave me but at the same time, I was unable to absorb what I was learning unless the French had told me that my hands and feet were colder than anyone she’d ever touched, like I was so physically blocked, that my hands and feet were coming out like icicles. So I wasn’t you know, in retrospect, as an actor, I didn’t absorb what I should have at school because I was so emotionally blocked, but it’s my state of mind. I had no idea what else it could have possibly done myself at that time. They’re like, leave and like, do what yeah, you know, and the industry is very different now. I mean, I think you can leave and there’s a crapload more classes than there were back in 2000. You know, there’s our 99 That was 99. There’s a lot more people just popping things up doing shows, you know, everything has grown.
Phil Rickaby
There’s a lot more of the indie scene than there was when I was in theatre school. Yeah, yeah. And of course, it’s an accepted part. Now. I mean, when I was, I don’t know, when your theatre school of fringe was a thing that people like being really? Yeah, for me, personally, I felt like fringe was like, oh, you can’t do something somewhere else, you could put a little fringe show. Now it’s like, I remember cornerstone of like, indie, indie,
Dana Fradkin
and everyone does it from from our, you know, some of our top artists who are most indie artists, right. But so it now would have been a different time. But at the time,
Phil Rickaby
yeah. So I mean, from that point on, you’re spending the rest of you spending a half year and then to two other years, like just hanging on by your fingernails.
Dana Fradkin
Well, yeah, cuz I had another awful thing happened. Second year. Did you do? Oh, so in second year, oh, it’s second year during reading week. I had a boyfriend that had met that summer I went back to Ottawa, I’m sure I’ve told you this. And my boyfriend tried to kill himself stabbed knife through his heart. And I found him. So that was in reading week in second week. I feel like I don’t know. You didn’t know that. That’s like, one of the most traumatic Yeah, visually traumatic things I’ve ever seen, because it was a pretty gruesome sight with a butcher knife. So that got me really messy. So when I came back from second year, I, I was living with these two roommates. And I told them, they had to hide every knife in the, in the house. And I was getting like, I couldn’t look at a night, right, like, totally freaked me out. And I got really wacko. And I couldn’t sleep. I was just trying all these different sleeping pills. Like I’d really gotten into sort of a mess. One of the girls in the class called me a burden on her life at the end of second year. Yeah.
Dana Fradkin
I don’t want to drop her.
Phil Rickaby
So you’re struggling with that? Yeah. For a second year. Yeah. So what a horrible thing happened to third year? I’m just wondering,
Dana Fradkin
nothing. Okay.
Phil Rickaby
Except that you’re like just trying to stay? Well, part of the school
Dana Fradkin
third year, my Well, yes. Second year, they were really trying to kick me out at the end of second year, but they couldn’t because I was a good student. And I think it’s a bit different. Now. I think they’ve just kicked you out now. But at the time, they didn’t. Because I always felt like you went to the end right?
Phil Rickaby
To the end, but I was always skin in the teeth. I think every time I sat down in, in my like, my interview at Christmas, at the end of the end of the year they were they were like, We think you should leave. And I would be like no, we’re not going to. And it was like every every year like I walk in and they’re like we’re gonna have this conversation again. What am I going to say? And then like half the conversation we think you should leave and then I would like yeah, fingernails I’d be I’d be in
Dana Fradkin
Yeah, somehow I had. My mother was a child psychologist and she knew a lot of Psychology found me really good therapist, and between second year and the summer between second year third year seeing while I was partly live in Toronto, partly Manado I’ve seen her and then having phone conversation so chatting with her twice a week, and I still see her on and off today but she’s never quite met See the same drastic changes in my life? She didn’t those four months, I came back into second to third year with a different mindset. And they had already made up their minds about me. So I didn’t get any parts. In any of the shows.
Phil Rickaby
No parts are no,
Dana Fradkin
like, two plays. I had one word. And like one word, and two plays, I have one scene.
Phil Rickaby
So they were trying to kick you out by not casting yet, but I
Dana Fradkin
did. But I was becoming better. And Peter Wilde and beginning of third year when I finally seen the actor and you and I did a vocal mask. That’s still one of my best works that Dorothy Ward pulled me aside and said, my 13 years of being in the school, this is one of the only ones I’ll never forget. And I was getting, you know, Todd Hammond give me a thumbs up. I did something on that vocal mass that made the teachers go, yeah, yeah, okay. We undermined her but I had really changed my life. I still couldn’t cry. Like, I didn’t cry once in theatre school
Dana Fradkin
was one of those things, okay. I didn’t cry. I didn’t cry.
Dana Fradkin
All these people haven’t breakdowns. I’m like, I’m probably should be the one with the most reason to break down, but I’d never cry.
Phil Rickaby
Most people working really hard at crying. Because like, firstly, for me, I don’t get cast in that shit. So I’m okay. Do I need to cry? So when you got out of theatre school, what was your perception of how things were gonna go for you like, and how, what what actually happened?
Dana Fradkin
It was not sure how things were gonna go.
Phil Rickaby
bizarre, but like, what was your plan going out?
Dana Fradkin
Right? Yeah. So I went right to Second City. Oh, no. Yeah, I will go right into a restaurant job, which I think is actually very, not good. To get swept up in big time restaurant jobs. I think if you work in a small restaurant, you work like four to 10 and a small little dime, you know, fancy restaurant, whatnot. It’s okay. But when you’re working in the big restaurants, I’ve worked at Hemingway’s been working till three. And you’re starting at four in the ft. I think it it sucks the Yeah. And I do get worried with artists that do it. Because I don’t think you can create and be on top of your career in the way that that especially at a young age that you should be. I feel like I wasted all my years in Hemingway’s
Phil Rickaby
like, How long were you in Hemingway’s? Two years? Two years? Do you feel like the do you just not have the energy for creative stuff?
Dana Fradkin
Yeah, you kind of you kind of audition when you get one. And you know, it was a different time back then than it is now. People friends weren’t quite grabbing each other in quite the same way to just go. Let’s create I mean, it’s still happening. But now it’s like, yeah, now it’s all it’s all over the place. It’s a very trendy thing to do. We have iPhones, we can make movies. It’s much easier. But I didn’t. Yeah, I just it was you know, you wake up at 1011. And you also you end up with a group of young 20 year olds in a restaurant, you end up partying,
Phil Rickaby
you end up you leave work at free. And then you have a drink and or whatever. Yeah, sleep until 10. Yeah, yeah. And
Dana Fradkin
you’re like, Oh, if I have an audition, I’ll get up. Yeah, but otherwise, I’ll just sleep until it’s time to do work. Yeah, but that like lifestyle of just auditioning and then working creative.
Phil Rickaby
Does. That’s in the same way that like a day job would would suck that out of you there for sure. Like it’s hard to know, like a day job. We went to, you know, you did an office job. You have the same you’d
Dana Fradkin
have the same travel if you’re working nine to five and temp job and then trying to come home and create everything. Yeah, it’s tough. I’m not an easy. What was
Phil Rickaby
your first, your first? Your first acting gig out of a theatre school?
Dana Fradkin
Yeah, my first official acting gig was trip magnet on the island. The kid shows on the island that summer of 2002. And then that summer, I got cast in Tony and Tina’s wedding at Second City and I had been right away when you’re asked I went into the second city classes. And so I did. I was doing their conservatory programme and getting like really into that world in the comedy world and then got hired in 2018. And that summer, and I was on the island.
Phil Rickaby
When did you meet Richard Boehm?
Dana Fradkin
Right, so I met him a year later. Okay, so yeah, 2003 Before I went to Florida, no. Or was it 2004 Do you remember when would you remember this?
Phil Rickaby
I don’t know. I don’t know. What were you What were you doing? Okay, I
Dana Fradkin
always have to track my Richard.
Phil Rickaby
All right. I don’t think I met you until after the Shakespeare in and Brampton.
Dana Fradkin
Right you were in comedy Barrows? No, you were only a madman. No, it wasn’t comedy bears. i Okay, so, some we graduated summer 2001. Summer 2002. I did shrimp magnet. Then I did. Tony and Tina’s 2003. Leslie sagas live with Leslie Siler who had become a very good friend of mine. And she Richard was looking for a fringe actor for 2013 2003 sequencing, huh? Right. And that I auditioned for and got the part. Okay, so it was the summer 2003 where I did fringe and got to know Richard Yeah. And then I went to Florida for six months. And then when I came back the next year, he cast me in comedy various Brampton. Yes. And from there, the real sort of friendship bond
Phil Rickaby
built that. Now one of the things that sort of, I mean, you and I know each other because of Richard and Keystone theatre, and all that stuff. But Keystone theatre, its birth kind of happens at that, that company of errors because you’re doing this this silent film. And or you do like this little Chaplin bit, and that sort of that sort of makes it that sort of becomes like the
Dana Fradkin
thing that led the whole thing.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah. Have you done physical theatre before that? Or yes, I’ve
Dana Fradkin
had well, I had was saying my, in high school I did Arlecchino and I did Arlecchino in that fringe show and we had two teachers in our high school in Canterbury that had gone to look hoc or knew the styles one a definitely the other one. I think it because of Odyssey. So we to very physical theatre. So a lot of people that come out of Canterbury are actually very physical theatre base. You know, a lot of people who’ve toured with Cirque have come from Canterbury, and, and so and in third year, George Brown, I really everyone said it when we were doing Commedia, it was like booth Davis come out of the woodwork. And so I knew it was sort of my element. And then we did Chaplin. And I didn’t know much about Chaplin. Before that we had this little intro where I did it. And I loved and Richard loved it.
Phil Rickaby
And you had you. Did you watch Chaplin before? You? Did?
Dana Fradkin
i Yeah. I mean, I hadn’t watched it years before. But then I started to study him in order to do this little opening. And we felt really good about it. I really is to this day, I wish I could recreate it. I loved it. It was so good. Yeah. And then I sat Richard down somewhere and six months after maybe a couple months after and was like, let’s do something with this. Yeah. Because I was craving. I wasn’t your typical actor. It wasn’t just coming to me. The big theatres were not casting me or the even TV and film was not. Yeah, casting me. You know, just like, Okay, what am I going to do? And yeah,
Phil Rickaby
well, I mean, that’s, I mean, everybody at a certain point. I mean, there’s only so much work for everyone. And everybody reaches that point where you’re like, What am I going to do? Yeah, and you either find a thing to do, or you go get an office job, and don’t ever do it again? Yeah. Kind of where you kind of find a middle ground? Like you like me? Yeah. But I mean, you guys had that conversation. He sort of talked about creating a show in this, this this style. And then we had to create a whole? I don’t know, to figure out how do you do the silent film? On stage? Yeah. And that took ages. But then, like, is there something that you’ve learned through work with Keystone that you don’t think he would have learned otherwise?
Dana Fradkin
Oh, a million things? For sure. I mean, one of the things I learned with Keystone is now when I’m making movies, or whatever I’m doing now the collaboration and the understanding about how the theatre industry works. Bringing it over into how the, you know, even TV and film works is been huge if I hadn’t been in charge of, of creating and having to self produce and trying to figure out my fundraising skills, like my understanding of how to make a fundraiser work, my understanding of how a theatre works. I’m assistant directing the kids opera now and understanding staging in a way that I don’t think I would have. And now, in the last couple of years, I book a lot more than I ever did before. And I think that that has a lot to do with just years and years and years of working away on my own stuff. It’s just been like no one’s hire me I’ll do it myself. I’ll do it myself and do it myself. Oh, wait, finally someone’s hiring new that’s
Phil Rickaby
kind of the new path to theatre success. Yeah. Is is kind of do it yourself until people take notice to yourself and movies
Dana Fradkin
to my roommate is a TV writer and we were watching Doa that new show to be watched. I haven’t watched it yet. So the lead actress in that was what had no career and she wrote two feature films that she’s totally self produced and starred in and just sent them out the festivals and through that eventually, it’s like now she has her own TV show, right? You know, it’s not like what Lena do, which is do but it was just make work, make work make some all of a sudden somebody notices. And it’s the same in theatre too. And your skill set flies through the roof without even knowing it. You know,
Phil Rickaby
interesting because the number of people that I’ve spoken to on this, when I’m doing this podcast, who are who have self produced in their path to where they are now is through self produce self production. I’ve only in 60 some odd episodes, I’ve spoken to three people who don’t? Who didn’t follow that path. Wow, who really, career followed that? Mostly traditional path of audition? Get the job? Get the job? Yeah. Yeah, and most everybody else is a self producer, which is a fascinating thing to think about that. So many people who are doing some really amazing work are actor slash something. Yeah, they’re creating something.
Dana Fradkin
And I think that once you’ve been acting for long enough, you want to have a larger hand in the in the, in the product anyway, in you know, you’re you’re more curious as to how I kind of think
Phil Rickaby
there’s two, there’s two kinds of actors. There’s, there’s the actor who just wants to give themselves to the part. And like, they flourish in a setting where all they have to do is play that partner is the only thing they have to they have to work on. Yeah, there are certainly actors, and that becomes the most important thing. And then there are actors who who do who do want to do other things. Yeah, they’re both
they’re both completely valid. And they’re both completely valid.
Some interesting paths to success. Yeah. But I started gradually gravitate towards the the doing more than one thing, and yeah, to do to do so much more.
Dana Fradkin
One, and you have to be very, very lucky to just be are very, very talented to be the actor that doesn’t have to do anything.
Phil Rickaby
Even if you’re talented. You still need to be lucky. Yeah, I know, a lot of really talented actors.
Dana Fradkin
And they still have to, yeah, are
Phil Rickaby
may have. Some of them have given up. Yeah, like some really talented folks, because they just couldn’t, like I was speaking to somebody a while ago, I was friends with them on the street. And they gave it up because they were like, I don’t have a life as an actor. All of my waking hours are spent looking like researching who’s the artistic director of this room? What’s their season? What’s the role for me? Like I can do this? And that becomes their whole life. And I don’t live, which was a strange thing.
Dana Fradkin
No, it’s very true. It can be all consuming. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
So now did you do Hogtown this summer?
Dana Fradkin
I didn’t do it this summer because it was an odyssey but I did last January did last January.
Phil Rickaby
See we’re part of the first Yep, the first group. Now, hotel was this stick, no more style immersive production that happened in Toronto, first in January and in winter, and then again, summer, when you were approaching this the first time. What did that feel like? Like the idea of doing this immersive thing? Where people could be anywhere or come in in the middle or whatever? Did you see it? I didn’t get it. You know,
Dana Fradkin
I thought it was so awesome. It’s such a fun time. Doing it like it was it was so neat, because it was I don’t know, you just sort of walked in and we’d created a world. We created a variety of characters in a world in 1920s, where they all have their own story. And it was very exciting. I mean, I’m working with the same group right now and on a different immersive show. But that idea of trying to put it together was in sane. And you know, Sam Rosenthal’s a director is amazing. He realised though that I’m directing four times a regular play, because there’s four scenes happening at once. And there wasn’t enough time to give each scene the regular scene study sort of, you know, a scene get like an hour, and be like, I gotta move on. Yeah, because there’s 200 pages to this 250 Marcus foot for Drew wrote it, he had to write four times to play right. You know, so it was it was pretty epic. The cast was so fun. And, you know, they may not have liked it. Exactly. But we, we were creating our own relationships going through the house, because it was a lot of time that I didn’t have specific scenes. You know, I had to be in the parlour at this time at this time, then it’d be time in between where I would just walk through the roof. And we’ve created such a world Yeah, that it was like, Oh, I’d see the butler and I’ve created a special dynamic with the butler for my character and his character. And that was really fun. And it’s like others man playing my dad, we don’t even have an official scene but we can. Was really Yeah, it was a really cool, it’s really fun. I
Phil Rickaby
really hope it gets a chance where you where you like when you had to perform that? I mean, this is not like there is no separation between the actor and the audience when you’re doing this was that? How did that feel going going into that, like the audience member could interact with you in a way that you don’t don’t expect or can do something that, like, how was it?
Dana Fradkin
It wasn’t? Yeah, it wasn’t a big shock. For me. I think it was for quite a few actors. For me. I had I started with Tony teen is at a very young age, where even though you really do have to see that show. I know you read a lot. Yeah, you really are talking to the audience. You know, you’re improvising throughout you’re making conversation. In character, you’re creating improv. And then I’ve done so much murder mystery Dinner Theatre, as characters have gotten very comfortable to acting like a second. Mom beside now this play obviously, we were not supposed to interact with the audience. They’re supposed to just be watching or they’re not sort of like, hi, yeah, you want to sort of stay with the world. But they might be standing right? You might say a quick thing. Like, hello, I’m Ronnie. But you’re not supposed to be telling them stories. But you weren’t in a murder mystery, but I felt very comfortable. For me. I kind of get off on that. Yeah, but I you know, for for more traditional actors that haven’t had as much experience in that sort of comedy world. Yeah, it was a bit more jarring.
Phil Rickaby
I guess it would be I mean, it’s hard enough. Like if you work in a really intimate space. Like, I had a friend who’s working in the red sand castle doing the show? Oh, yeah. Just like really personal thing they were doing and I was like, Do you realise how close that audiences? Yeah, like you’re used to, like not seeing the audience. You cannot see the audience. They’re gonna be right there. And I was like, so you’re here. They’re gonna be here. You’re practically on them if you stand there so but and that’s like a crazy thing. But yeah, here. They’re all around you.
Dana Fradkin
They’re right around. Separation. No, no,
Phil Rickaby
that’s that can be a scary thing. I imagine
Dana Fradkin
when sometimes when someone you really know is there. Like, my boyfriend at the time came and I can’t even look at them. I could see the half smile on his face. And I was like,
Phil Rickaby
No problem was like seeing people you know. Oh, yeah, it’s just like, I can’t even I can’t even see you that you’re working with with the hard time collective again. We are Yeah, no, this one that it’s doing. I mean, it’s already sold out. Oh, yeah. You’ve
Dana Fradkin
heard that already. This? Yeah, you looked it up. It’s already
Phil Rickaby
on my Facebook. Friends. Oh, great. Oh, like I see that as like it’s already it’s already sold already sold out. It’s only for it was only for one week. One week. Yeah. And this one is that stance and it’s sitting in an insane
Dana Fradkin
Yeah. 1918 is saying asylum. Okay,
Phil Rickaby
that’s that’s good to go from a speakeasy is one kind of world but in a nice, like an 1800s. Like insane asylum is completely different.
Dana Fradkin
Completely different. A lot darker.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, I’ll bet it is of is. So is this one, there are lessons to be learned from that first production and to to realise, like how much there is, is there more time for rehearsal this time? Or is it just as we
Dana Fradkin
gave it to the one more week of rehearsal, and we’re realising it can’t quite be immersive in the same way as Hogtown, because we’ve picked an actual procedure from play. So we need to follow the through line of the character. So if you’ve ever seen dining room with the Campbell house and bakwin, so it’s more than most the audiences split up a couple times, but they’ll go back and forth. So let’s see everything. But most of the time, the audience is following them through the lead character story through the house. But there is a pre show where the audience is sort of free to wander. And, you know, Sam was smart, he gave himself three weeks. But because we haven’t wanted to anyone to lose money, because it’s a profit share. Yeah, everyone has kept their jobs like I’m doing another show right now. And so it’s been really hard to get everyone together. So
Phil Rickaby
that is one of the challenges to Yeah, theatre where, you know, you’re kind of at the mercy of everybody’s
Dana Fradkin
schedule. It’s been a bit crazy.
Phil Rickaby
What’s the what’s the other games that you’re doing?
Dana Fradkin
I must have been directing at the kids opera, the Canadian children’s opera. Course.
Phil Rickaby
What did you when did you start working with the awkward
Dana Fradkin
act? 2009. I did clown acrobatics, and lumbar web. And then somehow this is my fifth offer I’ve worked on
Phil Rickaby
Okay. When now any of the things that you’ve done have you been singing in?
Dana Fradkin
No but and vow curry divided party? I was the stunt Valparai Sr.
Phil Rickaby
And so what is this? What is it? What does it stand out? So
Dana Fradkin
there’s eight of them, but one of this is Adam agrarians show two which was awesome. One of them was backstage singing in a pylon while I was lip syncing way up, up at the top of the stage like climbing up these, whatever those things are called the construction site type things. Scaffolding and climbing across bridges and scaffolding with dead bodies. And then I would open my mouth and look at the Four Seasons and lip sync what they were like, oh my god worst thing in the world. It was such a dream come true. It’s crazy. Say you’re such a wonderful why well, yeah, I mean, nobody knew existed because they had no idea there was a stunt
Phil Rickaby
Oh, cuz you were only came on for like a month for that round song
Dana Fradkin
and looks like one of the sisters and Richard is doing and even said, Oh my God, those Valkyrie sisters was so amazing. They were climbing all over the set. And I was like, no, no,
Unknown Speaker
that’s your credit? Yeah, right. Yeah,
Phil Rickaby
credit. Credit. So I mean, you had, like, there’s a lot, that’s happened, you’ve gone through a whole lot of stuff early in your life and all this sort of stuff there from theatre school to now. I don’t know about you. But about five years ago, I fought back on Theatre School. And there were so many things that suddenly like made sense to me, that I suddenly was like, Oh, now I understand. All that shit that I hated. Yeah. And I wish I could do that again. Because they’re gonna go back now and like, get out of it. But you can’t do that. But so many things like clicked for me. Later on.
Dana Fradkin
Nothing clicked for me at the time.
Phil Rickaby
But like you, you suddenly realise some of the stuff that they were trying to try to teach you. Can you can you think about some of those things that clicked for you?
Dana Fradkin
Oh, my God. I think stillness. I think like the true true sense of, of the typical acting is reacting. But like, really, that that sense of just sort of being present. And you know, theatre school talks about all the time, that’s when silence was about. That’s what all that stuff was about. But I think even if I hadn’t gone through the traumas, I think it just had to have been experienced and learned. Like it just it I know, three weeks is nonsense. But again, when Peter said, ideally, you do this for four or five months, he said it was such a simple exercise. But it is it’s one of those things that when I really started to feel it, I was like, Oh, this is this is it.
Phil Rickaby
I wish I knew more about silence about silence and stillness. But I was too young, and I thought you had to do things.
Dana Fradkin
Well, that’s why we both got into physical theatre. You know, the
Phil Rickaby
funny thing is that when Richard was like, I want you to do this thing. I was like, Richard, I’m not. I’m not a physical theatre guy. I can’t I can’t do this. And he was like, Yeah, I think you can.
Dana Fradkin
And well, an actual stillness was, there’s so much of your beauty in the fiscal theatre.
Phil Rickaby
I mean, that’s, that’s one of the things that the job was always good for. Yeah. And that was was stillness. But some of this stuff that the clips are we clicked because of Keystone theatre. Yeah. And because of like, being present, and how present you have to be in that. Yeah. Because the one thing that I can say that I learned from Keystone theatre, of all of the things that I learned from Keystone theatre, is that you the audience only knows what they know. Yeah, backstory is great for you, but doesn’t mean shit to them if they can’t see it. Like being able to tell stories and just with what you have on the stage, because since we can give them a backstory in silent, the silent film stuff, like we can only go with, like, whatever they can see. Right?
Dana Fradkin
Yeah, she’s Fascinating. Well, made you be really present and what something Jeanette in particular did, which, yeah, when we were first creating Last Man on Earth, and she made us talk out our thoughts. Yeah, that one is really stuck with me, because I every and that’s why I think that pricing became so every moment, it has been deeply thought out. He made us speak it. So everything comes with a thought, Yeah. which to this day is why I think I can just pop that piece up and bring it back. Because it’s, you know,
Phil Rickaby
can you still remember what the thoughts are?
Dana Fradkin
Yeah. And it’s that specific ness to that they talked about in theatre school that I didn’t quite get that, oh, if you just get really, really specific about all this, then everything actually kind of falls into place.
Phil Rickaby
I think you and I both had the same because I didn’t really get specificity until Keystone V Yeah. Meaning I really didn’t get and non trials. You have to get oh boy in order to make it work. Yeah. I yeah, I’ve learned so much through through Keystone and like, the importance of that sort of stuff that it’s kind of fascinating to think of all of those things that I kind of wish I had learned or realise I was learning when I was in theatre school.
Dana Fradkin
It’s just a mess. So much happening at once.
Phil Rickaby
Well, I mean, that is I mean, that is one of the things about about theatre school is that it is all very, like, I think they want to keep you off balance.
Dana Fradkin
Well, the biggest thing I do take away and I still don’t think I would have done it any differently, but I get what they say. They say don’t come straight from theatre school from high school or high school. No, take some time I get it. I do get it. Nobody listens. Like nobody listens. And I’m still even knowing the knowledge. I know now. I’m not sure I would still listen, I
Phil Rickaby
used to fear of like coming out of high school, and like, what do you do, you’re gonna get a job, and then you’re gonna get a job. You’re like, I have money. I like having money to go to go to theatre school, I’ve got money. But then you’ve got to, like, you’re gonna lose that hunger when? Exactly. You’re out of high school. You kind of just want to you want to just dive in,
Dana Fradkin
unless you’re gonna travel for a year. I think otherwise, if you settle to a life of our Yeah,
Phil Rickaby
it’d be really easy, right? Right out of high school to just get a job and be like, This is what I can do. Yeah. And like, oh, wait, I used to like this thing. No. Yeah. No, I, I think that I, like, I get why they say I totally get why he said why they said they would have come at it from a completely different different place. Yeah. Oh, yeah. A year to go
Dana Fradkin
into theatre. Yeah, may have been needed, like four years. It’s really messed up.
Phil Rickaby
Peter, while always say, I always used to say, you should have come to me when you were 30.
Dana Fradkin
I know. He probably wishes he could train everyone at 30. He loves his students he loves when his students prove him wrong. It’s never been a teacher for them that I remember.
Phil Rickaby
And I think it was gold fever when we presented that for the first time at planning festival. And he came and I remember him, like so complimentary towards you. And I remember you went where was this when I was in theatre school? Was like, he loved it. And yeah, he just and to have that. The thing is that I think I was so glad that I didn’t. I’m kind of glad I didn’t get that for the first like five years after Theatre School, cuz cuz I was trying so hard to impress him. Yeah, that I think if I’d gotten that it would have ruined me forever. But to not get that for like 30 years, and then to like, finally find out because I don’t think he ever actually said it to me. But I heard like, here’s a big fan of yours. And I’m like, you’re pure wild. Yeah. Big fan.
Dana Fradkin
Big fan of Keystone. Yeah. Big fan of all of that. It’s amazing.
Phil Rickaby
I mean, I think there is like, good. There’s to toot our own horn. There’s nothing like it, right? There’s no, nobody’s doing that. And I actually thought that after we did our fringe tour that everybody would be doing, I thought that we’d like look at the following year that everybody would be like Silent films.
Dana Fradkin
No one’s still doing it. It’s still our or at least here. It’s still our little gem. Yeah, and I do think, you know, there’s obviously there’s a few that that come so talented, but I think it really is learned and I think that’s what’s so exciting for Peter is to watch people understand and in a different way. Well, that’s
Phil Rickaby
gratifying to like, not see somebody for like 2030 years and then see something that they’ve done and realise that all that stuff that you were trying to get them to understand when they were 1819 20 is now starting to come in.
Dana Fradkin
It’s like right life right? I’ve just had these new realisations about relationships like go
Phil Rickaby
okay, because you know what, you’re not you’re not you’re not receptive to that kind of thing at a certain age, which is why he wants you to come after like a year. Yeah, he wants you to grow and he wants you to grow a bit. And nobody does because everybody’s like, No, I don’t want to grow. I want
Dana Fradkin
to be an actor. Yeah. Yeah, totally. It’s
Phil Rickaby
just like one of those things. What is I mean, if you look at all this stuff that you’ve done over the years, can you point it like a thing that you’ve if you were to go back in in time and talk to Danny going into theatre school just before she went in? Is there something you’d want her to know?
Dana Fradkin
Yes well what are the major things is don’t be so upset a few if you don’t get it right away to it all it’ll there exactly we talked about the other one is don’t let anyone tell you you’re not one you’re not an actor. Yeah, I was called Grammarly called me intellectually and emotionally thin said I’ve never been an actor and it’s destroyed me and if I could go back in time and just be like, I’m paying you to teach me how to act. I’m not interested in hearing whether or not you think I am one. You know, and and like all the way through. That’s the one thing I’d say don’t. Nobody can tell you what you want to want. Just can’t.
Phil Rickaby
Nobody can tell you what you’re going to be
like once you’re out of theatre school and you know what some of the, you know, we all had in our theatre school classes. Everybody had the gold we call them the gold until you guys Oh, yeah, we hit everybody happy. And some of them are still working. And some of them are not. Yeah, nobody can tell what’s gonna who’s gonna make it and who’s like who’s gonna keep doing it? There are people who were so fucking talented. so talented. Who just me too.
Dana Fradkin
Yeah. And and and one part you know, who cares if Graham Hurley till the end of time? Never thought it was a good actor. There are other people that think I am you know that it’s just, oh, yeah, this was a thing that Chris Gibbs really taught me and I put this on Facebook once just because the little people aren’t interested in you doesn’t mean the big people won’t be either. And he told me a story of he couldn’t get an audition in the city. People weren’t very interested in him, these casting directors wouldn’t see him blah, blah blahs agent finally pushed for him to send a self tape to Vancouver. And he got to a real substantial part of Spielberg film. You know, it’s like Spielberg had more interest in him than any of the casting directors in Toronto, you know, and it’s, and that was what he said to you. So just because the little people aren’t interested doesn’t mean the big ones won’t be either. And that just really struck me then they’re just Yeah, it’s, there’s so many people, because you don’t know you don’t know I,
Phil Rickaby
I still kind of wish. Because I don’t know what they’re what they’re doing now. And I you know, some people are tired of hearing me say this, but I wish that we talked more about indie theatre when I was 22. There was a thing, like if there’d been a production, of course, or something,
Dana Fradkin
like a business a vacuum, it’s just about taxes. Well, me acting
Phil Rickaby
mismatching was I remember the taxes part. But it was about, I remember the, you know, get your get how to get the agent, and I hated their method. But anyway, like all these things, but even though it was there, that we had some important information, but I wish that there was a, a, this is how you become this. Are you self produced? Because you’re going to need to Yeah, but at the time, they weren’t?
Dana Fradkin
No, and they’re doing more of that. Now, they brought in Julie to talk about self producing when they weren’t doing any of that they were shaping their actors only for Stratford. And I think when you look, you know, I think only one person from my class has ever even been to Stratford think she was in Stratford for a year, you know, it’s like, that’s not where most of these artists are gonna go, you’re gonna go all sorts of different routes and including creating their own theatre companies. And I think it’s a very important thing. Yeah.
Speaker 3
But it just wasn’t on the radar that no, it’s very different to really different industry.
Phil Rickaby
The Yeah, it’s changed so much like, I’m looking at some of the people who are super successful, at least who you know, I think of as really successful in the indie scene, for example, you think somebody like Rebecca Perry, and yeah, other folks
Dana Fradkin
like real like the fringe indie. You don’t mean like storefront coal mine. And the thing is that storefront
Phil Rickaby
indie, like, like, Rebecca, did some of her shows. Yeah, it’s like it all crosses over. Yeah, it’s also indie indie starts at the fringe and really, fringe was the birthplace of Andy Yeah, and then it just sort of expanded from to
Dana Fradkin
all these and now there’s not really a blur. I mean, Ted Dykstra has created his own indie theatre Yes Then do you know and he’s and what
Phil Rickaby
is it? What is it? You know what I think that what is indie is like, indie is not Mirvish and not pasma arrive factory and Tehran and salt pepper everything else is fair game.
Dana Fradkin
Yeah, everything else kinda.
Phil Rickaby
It’s kind of sad that we’ve lost a bunch of spaces this year though like there’s like 12 spaces and the
Dana Fradkin
last crow cedar has just built their space but and
Phil Rickaby
but storefronts closed all these places are closing down says closing well the unit
Dana Fradkin
Oh you didn’t want it to space Yeah,
Phil Rickaby
they lost that space because a great space he was a great space like there’s all these all these things happening is
Dana Fradkin
it is a bit of a yes storefront was a bummer but they’ll find a new space I’m sure
Phil Rickaby
they’ve closing on I don’t want to I don’t want to say for sure but cool having a close might have been like one of the best things that happened for that in terms of funding and stuff like that because everybody sort of rallied around Yeah, stuff like that. You good are you are you are you on the on the internet’s on the Twitter’s? Yeah, websites and stuff. What do you got? What do you got?
Dana Fradkin
I got my Facebook I got at Dana Fradkin Twitter. I’ve got at data Fradkin Instagram which I just got Dana Fradkin at workbook live. It’s my website. There’s the website through Cassondra workbook IMDB page. Yeah, I’ve thought
Phil Rickaby
of fitness websites. In this represents a few times I’ve seen you not stretching or doing push ups, which is like a thing that you do like you’re sort of hanging around you’re doing like like push ups, sit ups, see all kinds of stuff. So it doesn’t make for good audio. But like, so you also do like fitness training.
Dana Fradkin
Yeah, I do personal training just for about five clients a week and try to keep myself in shape. Yeah, that’s good. It’s a nice part time job to have beside acting much better than the restaurant industry. Well, the
Phil Rickaby
restaurant industry, like we were saying will run you down,
Dana Fradkin
run it down. You know, when I worked in a restaurant on Bay Street, where it was just four to 10. It’s not as bad. Yeah, four nights a week, but that’s still still I don’t want to do it anymore. But you know, if you are going to be in that industry, it’s not a it’s not a bad way to do it.
Phil Rickaby
I think when people like when when you’re like, on your feet, something like four until three in the morning, and then you go to drink and then
Dana Fradkin
drained. Tell me get home. Yeah, um,
Phil Rickaby
I was working in bars. It was the same kind of thing. Just like I didn’t start that long. But it’s like, you finish your day at like, three like you get home at like three. Yeah, maybe you go out for a bite after.
Dana Fradkin
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Are you have a bite at home? Or by the time you go to bed? Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
Looks like then you’re you sleep until like noon, noon. Yeah. Thursday. How would you have to go back to work at four? Yeah, yeah. Um, so this has been a lot of fun. I want to say yeah, I’m coming on.
Dana Fradkin
Thank you for having me.