#58 – Cate McKim

Cate (aka Cathy) McKim studied visual arts at York University and acting at George Brown Theatre School. By day, she works as a consultant at words with cowbell (website to come), providing copy editing, writing and voice-over services. After hours, she writes, acts, sings, and works on visual arts projects and stand-up comedy.

A published short story and creative non-fiction writer, Cate has also contributed theatre and arts posts to Lipstik Indie Reviews, appears (credited as Cathy) in DJ Paul V’s Born This Way Blog and is a featured contributer in a Glamour Magazine piece about the 2012 launch of the book version Born This Way: Real Stories of Growing Up Gay.

Prior to starting life with more cowbell, she worked (volunteer) with Toronto’s Alumnae Theatre Company as an actor, singer, playwright, scenic artist, bartender, newsletter columnist, company blogger and general go-to gal.

www.lifewithmorecowbell.com
Twitter: @lifemorecowbell
Instagram: lifewithmorecowbell
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/cowbellcate/

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Transcript

Transcript auto generated. 

Phil Rickaby
Welcome to Episode 59 of Stageworthy, I’m your host Phil Rickaby. Stageworthy is a podcast about people in Canadian theatre. If you’d like to be a guest on Stageworthy or just want to drop me a line you can find Stageworthy on Facebook and Twitter at stageworthypod and you can find the website and stageworthypodcast.com. If you liked the podcast, I hope you’ll subscribe on iTunes or Google music or whatever podcast app you use, and consider leaving a comment or rating. Cate McKim is a reviewer and blogger writing about theatre and culture and life with more cowbell, we sat down last month to talk about her journey from theatre student to reviewer and what she loves about the theatre scene in Toronto.

The blog is likely more cowbell less so and that’s that’s sort of an arts blog, reviewing theatre Are you promoting theatre reviewing theatre doing the whole

Cate McKim
reviewing and promoting it’s not set up to be a critic so much as as a someone shouting out the word. My main focus is theatre, local Toronto. I also do a bit of music and literary arts and visual arts. But theatre would be

Phil Rickaby
here’s the main main focus, main focus. What was the impetus to start doing that? Was there something that made you want to do that?

Cate McKim
Yeah, actually, when I was with alumni theatre, a while back, they decided they were going to set up a blog and can promote their stuff more on social media, etc. And the blog was set up, but no one was really taking care of it. So I approached Tina McCullough, who was the marketing and marketing promotions manager, and I said, Hey, like, let me take a crack at it. And basically started off by blogging, about alumni productions. And I was also writing for the newsletter at the same time. And and then it kind of expanded from there that you know, a lot of people out alumni or who who do shows that alumni are also doing other shows. So it might be interesting to include that as well. And, you know, and create a little connection and goodwill among our, you know, fellow non professional and community theatre companies, because there’s a lot of crossover with alumni and village and East Side and advocates, etc. So, so yeah, I did that for a couple of years. And then came came time for me to leave alumni and I decided, you know, I want to do something else, just kind of pursue more of my own work and, and get out actually and see more performing arts around the city. But I have found I found that I was I was so taken and bitten by the blogging, but I thought, you know, I need to start my own blog. So there was a bit of a six month overlap period where I was blogging for alumni, and I started life with more cowbell,

Phil Rickaby
we were writing separate separate pieces, or were you cross posting,

Cate McKim
I was doing a bit of cross posting, but I was also writing some separate starting to write separate pieces as well, that took a little while to kind of sort out, it was a bit challenging that way, and just kind of, you know, timewise, as well. But yeah, in the end. Yeah, it’s sort of had it up and running. And it’ll be six years in January, I believe.

Phil Rickaby
That’s a good route. I found it. That’s a good name. Yeah. You sort of made a distinction just a couple minutes ago, sort of like not saying that you say that you’re not a critic. Do you? How do you see the work that you do? Once you’ve seen a show? It’s not a review? It’s not criticism? Is it just shouting out good work? Is it calling out? Like, what how do you how do you

Cate McKim
look at it? So I would say it’s like, I would call a kind of friendly experiential review. It’s like, like, if your friend went to see the show, and even if you went to see that show with them, obviously everyone’s going to take away something different or something’s going to, you know, captured their imagination, maybe in a different way. So I find when I when I wrote the blog, I want it to be a combination of talking about the show and and what the show is about and who’s working in it, but but also focusing on the positives, focusing on what’s positive, the show and promoting the show, and that more or less came out of my work and alumni because we work as a blogger there was kind of like, yeah, you’re blogging to your show and you can’t promote The show so, so yeah, so it’s, yeah, it’s like kind of a crossover between review and public relations, I guess. If you want to go with the more traditional terms

Phil Rickaby
do you Oh, I suppose you always try to find it positive and something that you’re writing about, or?

Cate McKim
Yeah, yeah. I, I mean, that’s, that’s one of the things that kind of sets me apart from the critic is that, yeah, if there was something that maybe necessarily didn’t work for me, I’m not really gonna mention it, or I’m not gonna make a big deal about it. Because it’s because it is more about showing the work. Yeah, I mean, there are a lot of people who who do criticism, and there’s, you know, there’s space for that people look to them for advice. Yeah. And, and, and respect their opinions, there are critics of the city that I really expect, respect the opinions of. Yeah, but for me, just from a personal kind of stance, I like to, I like to focus on the positive stuff, because there’s always going to be something good. Even if a script didn’t necessarily work for me, or maybe a performance didn’t necessarily blew me away, there’s always going to be something whether it’s the ensemble, whether it’s one particular performance design.

Phil Rickaby
That’s, that’s, I mean, that’s a really positive and I think, rare attitude, because I know I’ve come up with some stuff that I did not enjoy. And just like it, one of the reasons, they just I focus on that I find I get, like, stuck on these things that I didn’t enjoy. It’s hard for me to just okay, yeah, but that work was good, right. But I can get on a rant about this stuff that maybe didn’t work for me. Is that do you? Are you ever? Like, how do you keep from from like, if something really sort of got on you the wrong way? Do you have any? Is there any way that you keep yourself from like, ranting that or do you write like, is there a shadow review of anything? That’s like, your rant? And then you get rid of that?

Cate McKim
No, actually, that’s a good idea, though. I often wonder what my alter ego would write like that. More or less? I yeah, I will just kind of not mentioned it. I may have private conversations with somebody, you know, with my friends, or someone happened to go with me that night. But, but by and large, and and also too, I mean, I’m self selecting these shows like, I’m not, I’m not getting sent out by

Phil Rickaby
No, you’re going to want to see. Yeah,

Cate McKim
I mean, I mean, sometimes I’m going to, you know, unknowns, because over the years, since I’ve been doing the blog I’ve been, I’ve been getting a lot more invitations to stuff and in some cases, that it’s a new company, or somebody familiar with. And so so in that case, it’s kind of like, Yeah, I’ll go and that case, it’s like, kind of going in blind because you’re not you know what you’re gonna get, but the thing is, with this city, we’ve got this embarrassment of riches. And there is just so much good stuff we really do.

Phil Rickaby
Like it’s it’s almost a problem that we have is we’ve got so much good stuff. And the and the real problem is not that the good stuff exists, but the problem is the good stuff getting its audience because there are some Yeah, doing some fine work. Yeah, they just cannot seem to break through the noise. Yeah. And that’s why it’s great that sort of like likely more cowbell exists.

Cate McKim
Yeah. And it’s, that’s part part of kind of my kind of unspoken unwritten mandate is the Yeah, I mean, I’m not just covering professional theatres. I’m going out to community teasers on non professional theatre groups. People that won’t necessarily get reviewed anywhere else are getting reviewed by the bloggers.

Phil Rickaby
Well, actually,

Cate McKim
me and Mooney on theatre going out in there and they’re covering you know,

Phil Rickaby
I’m finding that it’s, it’s hard, like if you’re an independent theatre producer, the blogs are the most important thing for you because the star is not coming The Globe and Mail is probably not come in the sun goes to like three theatres total if they do anything at all. So you’re not the print is not there. And so like you the blogs are where you have to go if you’re if you’re producing and they do they do they do a great service. Although like I remember a couple of times, there was I remember, Oh, I was doing a show and this guy came from Mooney and apparently his whole thing was that he like wanted, like he his whole thing was like, he had followers who wanted to hear his bad review because he reviewed everything poorly. He was like my job is to write a bad review and I’m gonna listen to it while so he sounds like he’s totally like my nemesis at cowbell yeah.

Cate McKim
Wow thing

Phil Rickaby
the thing that I like I had a podcast a few years ago similar to this one. And at one point I pro As I started, I approached the Toronto fringe and wanted to be credited as media. And then I felt because of that, I felt like I should review things. And so what I would do is go to see your show, and I would sit down with the person that I saw with right after we talked about the show. But I’ve, I’ve, I was uncomfortable with that. And I was uncomfortable that probably in the same way that that for the same reason that the you take the the approach that you do with your blog, because I would see something and I would talk about all of it, like what I liked what I didn’t like, but in a way, I’ve never considered myself to be a critic or viewer. I was uncomfortable with that aspect. I like to talk to people about their process. And I like to talk to people about how things work. But I don’t want to talk about this show, especially if I didn’t if I didn’t enjoy it. Right, so I stopped. I just stopped that. When you I guess I guess like the way the approach that you take on life with more cowbell, since it came from the way that you write from for alumni. Do you ever have debates with yourself about about how you’re going to write up particular review? Do you? Do you sit down and like, I’m not even sure like how many like what kind of note to taking, do you take notes in a show? Or do you just like let it

Cate McKim
during the show? No, because I like to I like to stay present. And I find and I know some people like to take notes, like everybody’s got their own way of dealing right. For me, I find a My eyesight is not great in the dark. And b I find if I tried to take notes, it’s kind of like when you’re on vacation, and you’re taking photos of stuff. And you have that moment where like you’re so busy taking photos of stuff that you’re not really present and noticing what’s going on around around you. And for me watching a piece of theatre, I want to be there I want to be you know, I just want to be there and experience it and feel it and whatever and think about it. And then afterwards like or during intermission. If there was an intermission, I will start scribbling notes. Sometimes I’ll start notes before the show, like if there’s some particular design element that strikes me. But yeah, generally speaking, I’m especially for the one act plays I’m scribbling notes on the TDC on the way home.

Phil Rickaby
Yeah, I mean, having somebody with a notepad changes the room. Yeah, like, if the actors can see it, it changes it if even if the audience has

Cate McKim
you. Yeah, because like I’m thinking it might be distracting. Right? Like

Phil Rickaby
it’s a critical changes the mood of the room. Just in this way. That’s almost indescribable. I had a guy sit in the front row while he was taking notes and reviewing my deck. But,

Cate McKim
you know, like, yeah, take notes if you need to, but don’t be sitting in the front row. Be discreet, exactly. But most of the people I’ve seen taking notes are actually pretty good about Yeah,

Phil Rickaby
most people aren’t. Like, where they were, they were they really can’t be seen. Yeah. But you know, some people are not, don’t think about that. Your background in theatre. I mean, obviously, you have an affinity for theatre, because that’s your primary goal. Like where are you right from in on like with more cowbell? Are you mostly mostly covered theatre? Well, what is it that drew you to theatre in the first place? What’s your theatre background?

Cate McKim
Oh, god, my theatre background starts, you know, weekend mornings, the Dress Up Box. Reenacting you know, her favourite television shows or novels or making things up playing dress up. The first actual play I did, I think was maybe in grade eight something a Christmas holiday themed show we put together. And then in high school. I did some I did some shows. We did a Diary of Anne Frank staircase. And what I did was I actually saw a few days ago, the original film version of The Odd Couple and that brought my fond memories of doing that show in high school. Where did you where did you grow up? I grew up in Burlington and I went to high school in Hamilton. I went to cathedral Girls High School back when it was that girls school boys school since amalgamated sometime in the 90s At some point, but yeah, I never actually took theatre classes in high school, but I did theatre. I took art class music class, I played in the school concert, did

Phil Rickaby
they have theatre and they have like a theatre arts? There was

Cate McKim
a theatre arts class. I don’t know if it went all the way through to grade 13 At that point, but yeah, I just went out on audition for plays. Yeah. And did it that way and then you When I was looking at applying for universities, I was kind of torn between do I want to major in visual arts or do I want to major in theatre I ended up applying to York for both. And then I also applied to a couple of other universities for visual arts got accepted for as visual arts. So I ended up doing my BFA in visual arts at York, but still in the back of my mind, there was always that I really still want to do theatre school. So took a year off work to make some money. i In the meantime, I joined Burlington Little Theatre, so I was doing everything from you know, props to acting to do workshops. And then I applied to Ryerson National Theatre School, George Brown, George Brown took me so I went with it. And I was actually fortunate to be the first class that got a third year. Oh, and I applied it was originally only a two year programme.

Phil Rickaby
Okay, so you were there. Before I was the warehouse, the

Cate McKim
689 Yeah, a little little warehouse.

Phil Rickaby
Came in space. I think I started in like, September of 89. So you weren’t probably just finished? Yeah. Yeah. For I came in. Yeah. In the old annual

Cate McKim
little Yeah, like a condo now. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby
Yeah, it is. In fact, a condo Hunter pillar injure and Peter wind Peter wild.

Cate McKim
Yeah. Although they didn’t audition me. Actually. Joe Shaw. Okay, audition me. And yeah, I didn’t mean I didn’t mean higher and higher. And Peter until the first day of class. Yeah, we were we were the firstborn of that administration. And with the third year, yeah. And second year, they a colleague called each one of us in the office and said, Hey, we’re thinking about doing the third year. Yeah, so yeah, we started off I think with 24. And we ended up with 16.

Phil Rickaby
That’s cool. Yeah. Did was Peter still doing the those on a silence? That?

Cate McKim
Yes. Sound of Silence and period study. We did a Elizabethan Jacobean

Phil Rickaby
we did a restoration. I think that might have seen you guys. Hear. Yeah. My class was Robert Clark. Jacqueline Francis. Your oil. Yeah. Just so Jacqueline in in Measure for Measure?

Cate McKim
Oh, yes. I missed that. So good. It’s like so it was

Phil Rickaby
one of those interesting stagings. It’s like, first of all women, which always adds a little element of you have to make a decision when you do that, like, are you women? Or are you men? Yeah. You know?

Cate McKim
Women like just stepping into this. Are you going to be a woman playing a man? Yeah. Yeah. So they

Phil Rickaby
made the decision. They were all women. Wow. Even if the pronouns didn’t change, I think they they very clearly made that choice. They were all women. Which makes for some interesting scenes if you know the play.

Cate McKim
Wow. Yeah. I don’t know. Well, no,

Phil Rickaby
because it’s one of those ones that that’s so seldom performed and that it’s not one that we all know off the top. So which is kind of a joy to go and see. Because I don’t know how many more Scottish players or how many more Romeo and Juliet is I have in me.

Cate McKim
Yeah, or ham. Although although I do I am a sucker for Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet and I love seeing the variations.

Phil Rickaby
I’m a sucker for. I’m a sucker for Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead. Like if you put that I am yeah, fair. It doesn’t matter. Doesn’t matter. I’m totally there.

Cate McKim
I’ve only seen that once live. It was when I was at your theatre theatre. I think I think it was like an indie production to just a bunch of the theatre students put on Yeah, you’re nice. And yeah, it was really good. I think they did in the theme college and it’s in there someplace.

Phil Rickaby
But yeah. Yeah, it’s so when you when you graduated from from George Brown? Because I could always I mean, I can George Brown. We can always like reminisce about all the things in that way. When you graduated? Did you like what what were you thinking about as your as your path? Did you? And how have you? How has that deviated from what you expected at the time? Oh,

Cate McKim
wow. Well, to deviate a great deal. My path at that time was I wanted to be a Canadian actor working in Canada. And I wanted to work in all media. I didn’t want to just focus on theatre or one thing or whatever. I don’t want to do it all you know, commercials, TV, film, whatever voiceover what ended up happening is a A lot of the work I did post Theatre School was either non paying or collective theatre and non union voiceover Yeah. Which still paid pretty well. Not as great as the union, but still pay pretty well. After about 14 years of doing that, and having, you know, part time jobs in the farm room, doing telephone surveys and such. I kind of came to a crossroads and made a decision that yeah, you know what, it’s time to go do something else. In the meantime, I had shifted from doing, you know, phone room work with with market research into copy editing and proofreading. And so at that point, I shifted into being a professional copy editor and proofreader. And, oddly enough along the way, I was actually just laid off my full time job back in May. But along the way, because I have this background in theatre in the background in voiceover, when the company decided to incorporate an in house IVR service, the automated telephone poles, they basically came to me and said, Hey, we’re gonna set up Sabo, you know, you know, we, you know, did you the voices for this, and, and, oddly enough, they’re my biggest freelance client. So I’m still getting copy editing and voice over them. And I’ve actually gone back into trying to find an agent again now to do voiceover work, because I, you know, I had kind of forgotten about how much I love doing it. Yeah. And

Phil Rickaby
it’s, it’s always interesting, because I know, I mean, I left the industry for about four to five years. Like, I stopped doing any theatre. And I’ve spoken to some other people who who’ve done that. And you can forget for a while, what it’s like to do it, like how much you enjoy it. Yeah. So you just get that you just get that that taste of it. And then all of a sudden, you become ravenous for it. Yeah.

Cate McKim
Yeah. And there were periods of time when I didn’t do theatre at all like, and then, and then got back into it. And even after I’d stopped pursuing it as a profession, you know, I did some shows alumni in now, and then I’ll still go out and audition for something, if there’s something that I think will be a good fit. But yeah, it’s something that you know, you can I can always take a break from, but I can’t always necessarily quit. Well, I’ll

Phil Rickaby
leave it behind because of because of the blog and keeps you Yeah, and it keeps you going. Yeah, exactly. When you started the blog, didn’t take a while before you started getting invited to things that you have to try to ask your way in? Or did did people find their way to you?

Cate McKim
Yeah. At first, it was covering like, a lot of alumni stuff. Community Theatre stuff. And, in many cases, not hadn’t gotten on media lists yet. So as I was, you know, paying my way to, but as as things got going, and I think it really, I think, really, maybe if I have kicked in a few years ago, when I applied for fringe media accreditation, because I was going to fringe and I was covering fringe and I had been doing it and I thought Yeah, you know what, I’ve been covering it for a while I’ve, you know, I’ve sort of, you know, hopefully proven my chops. I’ve established myself enough. So I applied and I applied for summerworks and I was accredited and and then but yeah, between word of mouth and. And I guess just kind of getting to know more people. Yeah, I started getting more invites getting on more media lists, public public relations, folks, media lists, and yeah, it’s gotten to the point where, again, embarrassment of riches and you know, plus working during the day, I can only book so much during the week. So I’ve unfortunately had to had to pass on regrets.

Phil Rickaby
I know, I know. I know. That’s like there’s only so much you can do in a week. I know for me like I can I can always find somebody to go with me to stuff right but you know, after a day of work, I don’t always have the juice to go and see another thing and things like that. Also my partner Sarah would love to see me now and then and if I was to go to came my way what’s your friends and family want to know exactly? What’s up with that? Is there anything that you can point to as like that your greatest joy in doing this doing the blog is there what is it that your favourite part of of it? Are there moments for you?

Cate McKim
I’m just seeing some just really great work. There’s like constantly being so prized at this the abundance of not only great playwrights in the city, but just amazing performances, getting to meet and and even in some cases, interview playwrights and actors, which I want to try and get to do more of, because I really enjoyed that as well. Yeah, just and talk about the work and what makes them tick. And the neat subject matters they find to write about and perform. That’s really cool. And it’s also really cool to hear, because it’s not always apparent, when you’re when you’re writing stuff, like is this actually helping the production like, and people are always really great. And, and, and sending me a little thank you tweet, or a thank you email or whatever, for coming out. And, and that’s always really nice. But but it’s really cool. When when I hear things like, oh, you know, after every review came out, we saw people, you know, started showing up and stuff like that was great. Like to hear that. It’s like that, that it’s actually you know, helping out and making a difference,

Phil Rickaby
when in terms of like interviewing playwrights and things like that. Is that something like have you ever done much of that? Is it something that

Cate McKim
I’ve done a little bit? And that’s, that’s usually sort of, I’ll usually try to do it in conjunction with, they’ve got something opening. So either an actor or playwright has something coming up. And, or, you know, saying with an author, there’s got a book launch coming up, or you know, in some cases, I’ll even interview a musician, they got a tour coming up, or whatever. Yeah. Mostly over email, because trying to schedule stuff with some folks can get nuts. So yeah, we’ll just kind of email back and forth. And in some cases, I’ll be interviewing to, in some cases, meet people and have to kind of edit it back together again, if they weren’t sitting in the same room was responding. Yeah. But yeah, I think, yeah, definitely. We want to do more of that, because it’s always interesting to hear about people’s process and people’s inspiration.

Phil Rickaby
I know exactly what you mean, just just from doing this and hearing from from people who are making stuff about you know, what it is that draws them to the subject matter that they’re that they’re talking about? I can I can I can also tell you that I know that you know, getting people like to actually meet with people, I love sitting down with people, but it can be difficult to get people scheduled. Very difficult. I have often enjoyed when somebody has a publicist who can say Alright, at this time, we’re going to be here. And they’re like, yes, at this time, I will be there and then because the public has told them to their their it’s a little more difficult when you’re like talking with people and you say so what days good for you on or no? Yeah, but is there is there somebody that you’ve that you’ve spoken to? There’s like one of your favourites that you’ve, you’ve like interviewed?

Cate McKim
Oh, wow. She’s like, it’s actually been a while since I’ve done any interviews. But yeah, I guess my most recent interview, or one of the most recent interviews was with Andrea Scott. Her motto hurry, play, okay. Yeah. Don’t talk to me like I’m your wife. And just just talking about the process and how she became inspired by this person, like writing and you know, writing a play about an actual person who existed in history, and quite an infamous history. That was really cool. Just Just hearing, hearing her process. And the whole just excitement around. This is a production that’s coming up. It’s a production that’s coming to summerworks. You know, she had the Indiegogo campaign going. And so yeah, so there’s, there was a whole community and a whole village kind of gathering around the creation of this piece. And that was really cool.

Phil Rickaby
I love I love when I see that happening. I love the community because one of the things that I’ve often felt in the theatre community is there’s we talk about the theatre community, but there isn’t really one. So I’m always I always enjoy I always like to see when, when that community when people can come together. Yeah, there are some events that I’ve really, you know, the Toronto cold reads and sing for your supper, that storefront like these, these opportunities for people to come come together and read some new stuff and like, get a bunch of people who do theatre into a room for a period of time, which is one of those things that that we don’t do very often. In terms of the like in is there for people who are thinking about doing publicity and trying to get reviewers and get it get people to see their shows? Are there things that you that you not not generally but you look for in Press release things that are that they should do things they shouldn’t do. Is there anything in particular that you’re looking for when people are? are sending stuff to you?

Cate McKim
Well, that’s a really good question. We obviously, just general information about the who’s who, what and where’s. Yeah, if there’s any interesting kind of historical tidbit, or any kind of interesting, maybe perhaps there was a bit of inspiration from a playwright, or if it was inspired by a true event. Things like that are always really cool to see. I also really liked it when they include the creative team, which is cool, because, you know, it takes a village to make a production and everybody’s job is integral to making this production work. So yeah, and I really enjoy that, you know, having having kind of worked both sides of the, of the stage, I think backstage and having been a scenic paper painter and a props person myself, it’s always really cool to see who’s who’s behind the scenes putting it together. Yeah, I mean, beyond the press releases. I know, I’d like to see programmes that have, you know, solid breakdowns of characters and who the actor is playing that character. And some, most in most cases, you do see those. But every once in a while, you maybe get, you know, some bios of the actors, but not necessarily a full breakdown of what’s going on. So that can be like a little extra work kind of going back and making notes or going back to maybe the board and lobby. Yeah. And figuring out who’s who, because you want to be able to like name names, by name, of course. And obviously, make sure you attribute the correct actor to the character. And I haven’t actually, that has kind of backfired on me a couple of times, I think it was the new ideas actually mixed a couple of people. And one of the actors, you know, kindly, you know, sent me a little tweet, letting me know, so I went back and fixed Yeah, yeah, always happy to do like, Department of Corrections, and go back and fix something

Phil Rickaby
that is one of the things that you have as an advantage being in a web based medium is that you can correct exact day in a way that somebody who’s in print can’t, exactly. Just to go back to the press release for a second I know from and this is, this might be one of those selfish questions that I sometimes ask. But it’s just a matter of, when you’re putting together a press release, one of the things that everybody’s got in their head, that has to be one page. So you’re trying to figure out how much to how much to put in, and you want to put in all of them, you want to put in the who and the what and this and that. But they also have to figure out like how to fit in enough about the show itself to be interesting and to draw somebody in? I know, a couple of times. I know, I’ve seen some press releases, and I’ve created some press releases that are so caught up in the minutiae of the like the the important, like who, what, where, and these people are involved, and then I’m out of room on my one page,

Cate McKim
right. Oh, for your synopsis? Yeah. stuff. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, personally, I don’t mind if a press release goes over to two pages. I mean, I know, I guess the standard rule of thumb is you try and make it as short as possible. There again, I mean, yeah, personal preference. As long as it doesn’t go past two pages. Yeah, that’s fine. I mean, I like to see a good, a good clear, brief synopsis. Yeah. Yeah, interesting, kind of, you know, tags maybe pulled, like a quote pulled from right from the play, are always kind of neat and eye catching? Or, in some cases, even, you know, bits pulled from previous reviews.

Phil Rickaby
Yeah. That that’s actually one of those questions where I’ve never been sure if that’s something you would include in a press release. Like, if you’re sending it out to people who may may potentially review you. Are you sending reviews? I guess you can’t, because I’ve seen a few that do but I always sort of feel like I’m sending this to somebody who’s going to review the play do I? Am I trying to give them the heads up to be predisposed to like my play because of things that other people have written?

Cate McKim
Right? Yeah. Well, I guess Yeah. If you aren’t doing a remount doing, including little, like, little tag little bits from previous reviews. Yeah, I don’t mind seeing stuff like that. I mean, I won’t. When I’m out at, say friends or when I know I’m going to see a shows I’m not going to read other people’s reviews before I go see the show. I’ll you know, I’ll maybe go to them afterwards. But yeah, I don’t want to be you know, reading a full review of something that I’m going to see and I generally I don’t hang out and talk to people afterwards. I’m Partly because I need to get home and make my notes, especially if it’s like a late night on a weeknight, but also partly because I just like I need to kind of get in my head and then get it on paper, of course, yeah, and don’t want to be Yeah, kind of influenced or having kind of like background noise or outside noise kind of seeping in.

Phil Rickaby
It’s interesting because to think about about, you know, from the performers point of view, like I think about it, as I come out of the come out of a show from a performance, I want to see who’s there. But as a reviewer, you can’t let any of that post show euphoria that might be going on there affect your what you might be saying, right? And also, that’s going to take time away from you getting those notes down. So you can write your review. Do you sometimes feel a little separate from the theatre community because of that? Your your, the way that you have to deal with?

Cate McKim
Yeah, yes. And no, I mean, yeah, certainly don’t, don’t hang out for like overnight parties anymore. Like I used to. I will, like, if I have a good friend in the show, or who’s a playwright, I will stick around for a moment and congratulate them. But otherwise, I think people were pretty understanding of that, that they know that I’ve got I like, yeah, get out and go off. And you know, and do my thing and write stuff down. So yeah, I do kind of miss that a little bit not, you know, kind of having to kind of absent myself from that kind of stuff. I mean, at least during fringe, you know, you can always go hang out the fringe tent, at various points, during, you know, during the, you know, during the 10 days or whatever. Not necessarily like right after a show, but know, at some point, so I can you know, people? Yeah, yeah, free

Phil Rickaby
time is always one of those things, because I always sort of feel like and this is so weird, because I’ve been on both sides of being some somebody who’s in the fringe and somebody who’s not. And when I’m not somebody who’s in the fringe, I almost feel like, that’s not for me. And that’s, that’s not an act like it’s nobody has, has made that a thing, right? Somehow I feel like if I’m not, if I don’t have a show that the fringe set is for people who do have,

Cate McKim
so you’re feeling like it’s like a kind of a green room space or house,

Phil Rickaby
or like a pro show green room space. And I know, that’s not the intent, right? I think, you know, maybe eventually, they’ll find some way to make it more welcoming. But I know that if I was not involved in theatre at all, I would not find that a welcoming space, just because of the it seems so inside baseball, right? If you’re seeing all these actors, yeah, into directors, talking to people and talking about all these things, and and there doesn’t seem to be a space for somebody who’s just like, getting a drink and saying, I really liked you at the show. Everybody seems to there’s the Shmoo right?

Cate McKim
There. Yeah, there is there is that for sure. But the thing I find about going to the fringe tennis, I could be going there by myself after seeing a show or you know, haven’t had a big break in between shows. And invariably, I will always run into somebody I know, whether it’s, you know, an actor or director or playwright. And, you know, whether we hang out or not, or if it’s just a quick hire or whatever. We’re gonna chat in the pure line. And I find that way, like, if, if I’m going to see something alone, too, because because sometimes they’ll get, you know, to cop sometimes not. And I don’t mind going by myself in any event, but I always managed to run into somebody. So I guess in that way, I still do have a sense of the theatre community. It’s just maybe not as social as it used to be. But yeah, I know. I know what you mean that. Yeah, doesn’t really feel like kind of an insider’s space. A lot. But yeah, I think. Yeah. I don’t know. Maybe if I hang out around there enough. Yeah. You can kind of see pockets. So yeah, this is like kind of issues around a happening over here. Yeah. Or, or, you know, there’s just people here buying their tickets at the box office or whatever.

Phil Rickaby
Yeah, but yeah, I

Cate McKim
never really thought of it that way.

Phil Rickaby
I was just sort of thinking about about the fact that you know, we’re in December now, when we were talking about meeting for this. You were talking about how you mostly take December off? Yeah. Now is that because November is such an insane month. I don’t know about if this happens every year, but no, November seems to be a very popular month for opening things.

Cate McKim
Yeah. Is that that would definitely be part of it. The other part of it is that it’s you know, gearing up into the holiday season and as we touched upon earlier, making making space and time for for friends, family loved ones like that’s really important to be and also Yeah, just to take a break because because I find Yeah, really fall can be just so intense with going to see stuff that it just seems like you know, a natural kind of organic Time to take a break. And then I also take a hiatus in June as well, because it’s also a bit of a, I find it’s a bit of a slower time. And also, you’re just kind of gearing up gearing up for fringe fringe and for summer works. And so yeah, I find it, it works quite well. And it kind of is a nice, nicely spaced in terms of the break. I’ve seen maybe about half a dozen shows this month, most of them are holiday related. But yeah, otherwise, you know, I’m making making time for you know, Christmas gatherings and hanging out with friends and just relaxing. It’s just like, sitting around and watching you know, Rudolph on T. Exactly.

Phil Rickaby
Exactly. In terms of the calendar year, November the fall is such a crazy month, you’ve got July for French and August for summer. In terms of the rest of the like, do you find it the other months of the year or slower? Is it just sort of like follow that January, February? Nobody does anything and then

Cate McKim
it can be Yeah, I mean, but I guess that also depends on what else is going on. Like if if they may have you know, some more lit or visual art or music stuff to cover more and more these days I’m finding music is a bit more challenging to cover only because of you know, just timing. Yeah, a lot of a lot of shows can be you know, 10 o’clock at night and it’s just caveat late on a school and I get

Phil Rickaby
to have a hard enough time going to go into theatre on a weeknight when the show might end at 10 o’clock and I’m already looking at my watch thinking

Cate McKim
yeah, go home. Yeah. Yeah, especially if you know you’re travelling because in some cases I’m travelling anywhere from half an hour or two over an hour. Well

Phil Rickaby
if you’re doing doing if you’re like if you’re doing a lot of the indie stuff, and you’re doing a lot of the community stuff then you’re not downtown somewhere. Yeah. Except maybe alumni. You’re mostly going like out to the suburbs, or a little further. Do you mostly Do you travel do TTC do you

Cate McKim
do TTC? TTC? So yeah, yeah, it can be it

Phil Rickaby
can be What about shows that? Like there are shows that are happening out there more often happening in interesting spaces. I’m thinking of cat Sandler’s late night.

Cate McKim
Yeah, that was cool. The interesting thing about it’s very cool.

Phil Rickaby
I actually found that if I didn’t know where the where the Zoomer Plex was, I would have had a hard time finding it was interesting, because not a space that you think of as a theatre space. But it’s also difficult because it that was absolutely the right space for that show. Oh, yeah, definitely. That show would not have been what it was in, in his traditional theatre space. Yeah. But then the audience getting there. That’s, that’s one of those difficult things.

Cate McKim
Yeah, like, I guess, I guess partly to it’s a it’s a relatively new performance space. So once I once again, you know, once word gets out a bit more, I mean, like, like, with any other new space that people aren’t familiar with, like, you know, a lot of people didn’t know, you know, where the box was, where you know,

Phil Rickaby
or the red sand castle or red sand castle

Cate McKim
storefront? Or, yeah, some of them are a little bit more off the beaten path and others. Yeah, earlier this year, I was at the Super wonder Gallery, and I never even knew that a performance space they’re causing to okay, we’re just east of there. And I was just like, wow, like you guys have this is like Gallery and the Front End theatre little space in the back. And it was really kind of cool. Yeah, I think once Pete, once once, spaces get established word of mouth and social media kind of, yeah, take over and snowball and, and people get used to it. Yeah. It’ll be interesting to see other productions actually at zoom reflects. It really

Phil Rickaby
would. Because, I mean, the thing is that late night was, I mean, it’s set in a TV studio, so you can more perfect than that. I’m wondering about other shows in that space and how they will work.

Cate McKim
Yeah, so we’ll see multimedia shows like, well, something like the summoned which is a multi multimedia kind of piece with screens and stuff. Something like that might Yeah, in that space. Yeah, something where you’re gonna be, you’re gonna be needing a multiscreen. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby
I mean, that kind of stuff will be perfect in there. I don’t I don’t like I wouldn’t I don’t think I’d want to see a traditional like a play that would work in a in a traditional theatre there. They don’t Yeah,

Cate McKim
it’s something that was yeah, something that was more multimedia that like featured like even you don’t even live music performance. Or yeah, live kind of, you know, A TD crossover film over performance.

Phil Rickaby
You’ve been doing stellar, you’re thinking about you’ve been doing life with more cowbell for like six years. You said almost Yeah, almost six years. Is there, like a trend in Toronto theatre that you’ve been seeing or change that you’ve been seeing over those six years? Is there something that you’re seeing more now than you didn’t see six years ago?

Cate McKim
Definitely more multimedia. Yeah. Lots more really like interesting stuff being used with projected images, whether it’s moving images or stills or, or even texting. Okay, scenes of texting where that gets thrown up there as it’s been very cool. Oh, and shadow, Dalek puppetry and shadow puppetry. Stuff like that. Yeah. Is really, really cool. site specific stuff, too. We’re seeing more and more. I mean, I’m not just at Fringe. You know, the Hogtown experience being a prime. Yeah. Which is awesome. Yeah, one point, I thought I thought, oh, what would this look like if they went into you know, Castle Loma or Dundurn Castle or someplace like that? That was?

Phil Rickaby
You know, it is one of the downsides that they have in that space is for that. I mean, Campbell has is not a huge space. No, but if they had more space, they could do so much like, yeah, even more.

Cate McKim
But as it was, it was amazing that they took us from the front lawn, I spent a lot of time before the show started on the front lawn hanging out and see what was going on. And then and then and then the fact that you’re able to wander about on your own afterwards. Yeah, you’re literally kind of choosing your own adventure. You fine on like your

Phil Rickaby
that whole sleep, no more style, immersive. Theatre is one of those things I think people like the immersive stuff is is one of those things that we’re turning to more and more to get people away from their Netflix and come out to see a show. And I think that’s that’s the question that a lot of people are asking themselves now is, how to get people out of the house? Yeah, like when they can be entertained at home? What can you offer them? To get them away from the ease of just sitting on the couch? And I think you have to offer them something they can’t get somewhere else? Yeah.

Cate McKim
I mean, I mean, for me, it doesn’t matter if it’s like multimedia immersive or whatever I there’s, for me, there’s a huge difference between seeing live, you know, living and breathing actors performing on stage, compared to like sitting in my living room watching TV or theatre.

Phil Rickaby
And, you know, that’s the thing that I think people who have experienced theatre, they know that the difficulty is those people who their experience of theatre is only that one time, every five years, they go to see something in Mirvish or, or something that one time they went to see Phantom of the Opera, where although the people are alive, the fact that they’re often miked sort of takes away from that. Yeah, there’s a sense that you’re seeing real people they’re going to

Cate McKim
see like the big the big blockbuster stuff, as opposed to the more intimate, yeah, perhaps smaller cast, smaller space. And also, yeah, maybe that can be also a little intimidating for people too, because it’s because it is right there. Yeah. And you can be at some points very close, like if you feet away, like we are right now from each other. And you could be from the stage and seeing seeing this action, but yeah, I think I think it’s awesome shows like that. And oh, my shows like blind date. With which got its clear version premiere this year, buddy.

Phil Rickaby
I was talking with Rebecca. Before before she was launching that she was talking about they were that that was an experiment. They weren’t sure it was going to work. Yep. And I’m so glad that it did.

Cate McKim
Oh, it’s so worked. That was such a perfect space for it. And I’m bringing, you know, Evelyn Perry on board to, you know, be the other set of eyes. kind of steer it. Because Because yeah, well, I mean, one of the things during the talk back after the performance I saw Rebecca mentioned is that it’s the Oh, it’s not just you know, making it a gay couple. Or lesbian couple. It’s, um, yeah, there are different dynamics at play, or, you know, things like, you know, the same where the cop pulls them over a whole different dynamic happening when it’s, you know, a same sex couple in the cars to illustrate a couple of things that, you know, people maybe not Yeah, but But yeah, it was it was it was amazing. I was only able to see Julia Orton’s version, the two The two women versions I wasn’t able to see the guys but it just I was just so excited and so happy to see and they did such a good job.

Phil Rickaby
I actually think that sometimes I think that there were at this point where there’s so much interesting stuff happening, like blind date was this thing that started as a 10 minute sketch at the Spiegel tent.

Cate McKim
That’s right. Yes, the first time I saw it was

Phil Rickaby
and is now grown into this phenomenon that is now that she performs but other people will perform and is now has the queer version and, and all these different ways to two, finding like different like this, this all women Measure for Measure the the, the the Hogtown experience and all of these things, these exciting things that are that are happening here, just just in Toronto. Have you have you had the opportunity to see shows in like cities outside of Toronto? Have you gone to Hamilton to see stuff? Are you travelling? Have you been to any fringes outside of Toronto?

Cate McKim
Unfortunately, no, I have not made it to any fringes outside Toronto and Hamilton fringe I’m gonna have to try and make more of an effort to get out and see Hamilton fringe. Last time. I have seen some shows that theatre Aquarius in Hamilton and has actually it has been a while since I was there, I’d actually well, the queer version of blind date was on here,

Phil Rickaby
the

Cate McKim
theatre. And my, my youngest brother, his wife saw it. I’ve actually been able to make it out to Shaw and Stratford the time over the past few years. Very happy that they have a shuttle bus going on. Now, Shaw will be having a shuttle shuttle bus as well. But yeah, partly because I don’t drive. Getting getting up too

Phil Rickaby
difficult. Yeah, I mean, even just getting to Hamilton is yeah, you know, it’s funny because I did a show in Hamilton this past year. And the first thing that I thought was like, Oh, how am I going to do that? First off, I knew I was going to stay there during the fringe. But just like the logistics of getting there getting set up and getting to know the area, and also convincing people I knew to get up there,

Cate McKim
right. Campbellton you have the GO train you do, which is good. You do.

Phil Rickaby
It’s still people have this barrier. Yeah. Between between Toronto and Hamilton.

Cate McKim
Oh, my God. People have a barrier between west and east of Young Street. I don’t I don’t go north. Yeah, exactly. I

Phil Rickaby
mean, I remember I remember I used to have like when I was in my 20s I had my border which was like, Parliament I go Broadview to duffer in, but never nor the floor. Like that. These are my parameters. And I wouldn’t do and like, but how, how much was I limiting myself? It was people have these barriers, like doing a show in North York? Again, from downtown to go to the North York centre. There’s, we have you know, go north of that. Do you? Are there locations that and you don’t have to name any but are there locations where you you see that in a press release? Going to go? I’m gonna have to go there. Or are you like pretty adventurous?

Cate McKim
I’ll kind of go Okay, that’ll be a slough. Plan for lots of time. Unfortunately, Scarborough, just like Scarborough players just because of where they’re located and like bus times and stuff. It would just take so it’s so easy to be travelling and have a car. Yeah. Not being able to see them just because of where they are. Getting to Fairview library theatre. I mean, even though it’s on the on the shepherd line. I find I’m increasingly increasingly less comfortable going in the evening because coming out of there and having just like slipped through the parking lot to get back

Phil Rickaby
to me show’s over. You can’t go through the mall.

Cate McKim
Yeah. And when I’m by myself, that’s kind of like, Yeah, so like, I’m going to be planning to if I go there, probably doing some matinees unless I’m going with someone. Others the other library theatre space a by York University. There, Alexandra showcases to us back in the day. That was a schlep. And luckily the couple of times that I’ve gone up there, I was able to go with a friend who was driving. Oh, that’s good. Because yeah, otherwise, yeah. A lot of places take over half an hour for me to get to somewhere live and in most cases an hour or more. But yeah, I mean, you just got to kind of plan for some cases. I’ll go out early and grab some Dinner near the venue.

Phil Rickaby
That’s I always was the best thing to do is just to do that and and just to your close. Yeah. And you know, so you’re not one of those people who comes in late. Yeah, it’s always embarrassing.

Cate McKim
Yeah. Oh god. Yeah. I don’t I don’t want to do that. I mean, I actually yeah, I was. I was almost late for a show recently. Oh, yeah, a better place. Some alumni friends are dark, doing production of Ramona Bailey’s show better place at the factory studio. And I’d given myself plenty of time as basically to service vehicles down Bathurst. And all you know TTC gods and traffic gods are against me that night. And it took me probably it was like almost an hour and a half to get there from my house, which should have taken 45 minutes. And it was about 20. When I got there, I went and see whether Edward Lee was there at the at the media desk. And it’s like, Oh, my God, I’m so sorry, to my house, you know, at 630 or whatever. And it’s like, Oh, it’s okay. You know, I would have I would have filled the house for you. But you know, you don’t want to you don’t want to be that guy that

Phil Rickaby
people don’t want to be late.

Cate McKim
I really had to pee. So thankfully, I had just enough time to get a programme. Go, you know, grab a seat. washroom. Yeah. Yeah, I was not not pleased. No. But yeah.

Phil Rickaby
I mean, you can’t always help that kind of yeah, that’s, that’s always that’s always really difficult. I know, from working in the in front of house as I did for boat, I’ve done it a couple of times. The you know, there’s two kinds of late people, there’s the people who, you know, they’re clearly they’re caught in traffic and flustered. They’re, they’re, you know, nervous. And then there’s people who didn’t really give a fuck anyway. Yeah. And they’re just sort of sauntering in, I would much rather deal with the appellant than with the person person who’s flustered because I know that they’ve, you know, obviously something has happened and the person

Cate McKim
Yeah, they were making an effort to be outside person who didn’t

Phil Rickaby
make an effort. Yeah, no. But

Cate McKim
people who are like, yeah, just so blase, blase arriving for like an eight o’clock curtain,

Phil Rickaby
run, like, turn after eight, five, or, you know, it’s like,

Cate McKim
wow, you’re lucky or in some cases that the House has already held. And then in other cases, you know, they’re kind of quietly creeping in, or whatever. And it’s just like, Wow, so many

Phil Rickaby
people who just sort of, like they showed up in like, five after eight, and they don’t even care, but they’re amazed at the habit of the show started. Yeah, and they’re gonna have to wait to go in, which is always like, oh, yeah, stop everything. But you go in people. Audiences are so weird sometimes.

Cate McKim
And now you have to be careful because some shows are starting at 730 or even seven o’clock, and I’m always super paranoid that I’m gonna get it wrong. I’m

Phil Rickaby
always like, if I get if I get an email, if I get a ticket, or whatever it is, I’m I check it like, I check it so many times I make sure I put it in my calendar the right time. Is that time is it because that’s the thing is like, does it start at eight I think it’s such a sort of 730. I want to see when I want to see Measure for Measure, I was going with a with a friend. We were convinced that we started at eight o’clock. So we figured that we you know, we’re like at the Starbucks and we’re sitting down and we’re, you know, having some coffee and we said to her I said well, okay, I guess you know, 630 is too early. But you know, if we go over at at 22, we’ll be fine. It’s not too early over there. We go over there’s a sign on the door saying late comers we see that like 20 after 22. And we’re like, what would they miss the story? We’re those people who are those assholes who like, get into the last like, during the break? And we’re just like, we’re so embarrassed. And again, didn’t check the didn’t check the ticket. So

Cate McKim
Oh, man. Yeah, that’s just, I’m so paranoid of that. And I think I kind of, I kind of got that way into the checking the double checking, especially during fringe. When you’re seeing you know, me, I won’t see more than three shows in a day because I just, I just can’t know your, your brain can’t. But yeah, it’s just like, I’m making up double checking the venue, making sure I go in the right place at the time, right. It’s just like, oh my god, yeah. Because I do not want to be that guy. And I do not want to be the guy whose cell phone goes off. So I’m like, Yeah, I

Phil Rickaby
always I always have like, a specific calendar. Like I have my Google Calendar, I have my fringe calendar. There’ll be all the shows that I’m going to see and I always like very carefully copy over the thing. I think you know, somebody who really wanted to, like if they had like, an iCal link in on on their website for like you say this show, here’s the thing, you buy your ticket online and get you know, get your calendar link. They would save me so much time. Oh, wow. Yeah, just that kind of thing. Just download that loaded on your on your on your on your calendar, and then you wouldn’t have to copy over all that stuff. Right, right. Maybe one day,

Cate McKim
maybe one day. Yeah. Anyone who’s creating apps Yeah, exactly what they

Phil Rickaby
think about that. So we can find you online at life with more cowbell.com That’s right on Twitter

Cate McKim
on Twitter and life more cowbell

Phil Rickaby
life more cowbell awesome

Cate McKim
Facebook page life with more cowbell and Instagram even more yeah

Phil Rickaby
turn trying to figure out like I obviously I have I have I have an Instagram account the question is like what um what to post on Instagram for the podcast? Is there something when you’re posting on Instagram are you posting what is the choose to post on the life with more cowbell Instagram?

Cate McKim
um a lot of is just kind of me kind of in my life but then that then I also recently started this just kind of series of photos taking an actual cowbell which my brother and doing little photo photo things around the city like neat, neat places you know for pride huddled pride flag nice cowbell. Yeah, I’ll do something with the holiday at some point or I’ll take it to like a neat sculpture or any building in the city and I kind of I kind of got away from doing that because you know, you’re busy and stuff. So yeah, I want to get back to doing that again. You have got a photo by Cass Aloma nice cowbell. Yeah. Have Oh, yeah. On the bar at alumni started. Nice. So yeah, post stuff like that. Yeah. The pictures of the cat.

Phil Rickaby
Kathy will listen, there’s been there’s been really great. Thank you so much. Thanks very much, Phil.