Podcast

Virgilia Griffith

About This Episode:
This week on Stageworthy, host Phil Rickaby is joined by Toronto-based actor Virgilia Griffith, who is currently appearing in two shows at the Shaw Festival: Blues for an Alabama Sky and Murder on the Lake. In this conversation, Virgilia discusses the unique demands of each production and how they complement one another, keeping her acting practice fresh and present. She shares her journey from aspiring dancer to award-winning actor, the importance of mentorship, and how she found her calling in theatre.

This episode explores:

  • Virgilia’s path to becoming a theatre artist
  • The power of mentorship and the artists who shaped her career
  • What it means to bring authenticity and lived experience to performance
  • The importance of representation and telling underrepresented stories
  • How she approaches the creative process as an artist.

Guest:
🎭 Virgilia Griffith

Virgilia Griffith is a Toronto based actor. Winner of the Meta Emerging Artist Award for Gas Girls written Donna Michelle St. Bernard. Winner of the Dora Mavor Moore awards for Outstanding Performance for Harlem Duet written by Djanet Sears. She was also a Dora Mavor Moore nominee for Outstanding Female in an Independent Division for her performance of Honesty directed by Jordan Tannahill and a Dora nomination for Iphigenia and the Furies ( On Taurian Land) (Saga Collectif). Selected credits include: Three Sisters (Soulpepper Theatre/ Obsidian), Rosmersholm (Crow’s Theatre), Our Place ( Cahoots/ Theatre Passé Muraille), Queen Goneril/ King Lear ( Soulpepper Theatre Company), Serving Elizabeth (Stratford Festival), 21 Black Futures (Obsidian Theatre Company/CBC Gem), Contractions (Studio 180), Guarded Girls (Tarragon Theatre/ Greenlight Arts), Ma Rainey’s Black Bottom ( Soulpepper Theatre), The Wedding Party ( Crow’s Theatre), Other Side of the Game (Cahoots/ Obsidian Theatre), Da Kink In My Hair ( Theatre Calgary/ Nac), How We Are ( Mikaela Davies and Polly Phokeev Productions), Up The Garden Path (Obsidian Theatre Company).

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Transcript

[Phil Rickaby]
Welcome to Stageworthy. I’m Phil Rickaby, the host and producer of this podcast. Stageworthy is Canada’s theatre podcast, and on Stageworthy I talk to people who make theatre, whether they’re actors, writers, producers, directors.

As long as they’re making theatre, I’m going to talk to them, and some of the people that I talk to you will have heard of, and others I really think you should know. I’ll get to my guest in just a second, but first I want to remind you that if you’re watching on YouTube, make sure that you hit the like button on this episode. If you like what you hear, make sure that you subscribe, and if you want to make sure that you get notified every time I drop an episode, hit that bell icon, and that way every time I drop an episode, you’ll get a notification that a new episode is available.

And if you’re listening to the audio version, please make sure that you’re subscribed. Go to your favourite podcast app, search for Stageworthy, and hit the like button, the follow button, the subscribe button, or whatever it might be, and that way every Tuesday when I release an episode, it’s going to download automatically right to your device, and you won’t have to go searching for it. If you like this episode and you want to comment on it, either comment on the episode on YouTube, or go to stageworthy.ca, find this episode, and just leave a comment on the webpage. And if you stick around to the end of the episode, I will tell you who is on the podcast next week, but this week my guest is Virgilia Griffith. Virgilia Griffith is a Toronto-based actor currently appearing in Blues for Alabama Sky and Murder on the Lake at the Shaw Festival. And now here’s my conversation with Virgilia Griffith.

Virgilia Griffith, thank you so much for joining me. You are currently at the Shaw Festival working on two shows. Correct me if I’m wrong, you’re working on two shows.

You’ve got Blues for Alabama Sky and as well as Murder on the Lake, which are two very different shows.

[Virgilia Griffith]
Barely. Very different. Very wildly different, but they complement each other for my acting practice, I find.

[Phil Rickaby]
Sure. Let’s talk a little bit about both. Let’s start with Blues for Alabama Sky as our starting point.

Tell me about that show. Now, I know I’ve seen video of this show performed in London.

[Virgilia Griffith]
Yes.

[Phil Rickaby]
As well as a couple of other places. Tell me about Blues for Alabama Sky.

[Virgilia Griffith]
Yes. I read the play last year when I was speaking to Kimberly about it, and before that I saw, I didn’t see the full version on the National Theatre London Live, but I knew that Samira Wiley played Angel, and I just remember seeing the trailer and I’m like, oh, this looks interesting. And then when I was sent the script, I kind of dived deep into Pearl Clegg, the playwright, and when I read the play, I was like, oh, there’s a really, this script is very challenging and I always, I love a challenge.

That’s something that I try to move towards whenever I’m doing, I get to do theatre. It’s what’s the big challenge in that’s before me. And so it’s set in the 1930s during the Harlem Renaissance, but also during the Depression.

In Harlem. And it follows these group of friends and you see how they negotiate, not just like the climate of the Depression, but like their dreams. Kimberly describes it so well.

It’s like, how does she say it? She says like, this story is about these, this Black group of friends that are dreaming while Black, right? And what I know about Pearl is that like her, her mom would share a lot of stories and history events, like historical events about the Renaissance.

Like there was always that kind of like, that in her environment growing up, whether she was talking about poets or like just art. And so she was always intrigued when I was doing research on Pearl. She was always intrigued and taken by the Renaissance.

And so she wrote about it. And she wrote about these art, these artists trying to figure out who they are and how they affect each other. And you see how the different relationships unfold or break apart or come back together.

And yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
You mentioned, Kimberly described the play as dreaming while Black. And I’m curious, you know, I think most of us have heard the term driving while Black. I think I really like the term dreaming while Black.

What does dreaming while Black mean to you?

[Virgilia Griffith]
I remember on the first day she said this, and it’s just stayed with me the entire time. The joys and dangers of dreaming while being Black. That was the entire quote that she said.

And that resonates with me.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. What does that mean to you?

[Virgilia Griffith]
It’s the, it’s the wanting your dreams to come true. And knowing that you live in an institute, like you live in a society that is not, that wasn’t built for you. And, and hoping that, like, you can succeed, if that makes sense, with the different obstacles that come your way from being Black in this work.

And it also means to me, like holding on to your imagination, like holding on to, as, as the world and the struggles of the world and living in this body can be beautiful, it can also be hard, and how to keep your imagination intact, to dream and envision yourself in a, in a bigger and better place.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. I find it interesting, this play at the Shaw Festival, which I think has that sense about it, Shaw, very, you know, long-lived, very white English gentleman, and the festival is known for doing his works, and the works written during his lifetime. This, this play seems like it is unusual in that setting, but also even more important to do at the Shaw Festival, because it is set, at the time that it’s set.

How does this play fit into the festival, the Shaw Festival?

[Virgilia Griffith]
It’s, like, and Kimberly has talked about this a lot, like, that the language in itself, like, is so muscular, it’s so athletic, and it’s, it’s, it’s very intimate, and the arguments that each character has, or each, you see several relationships in the play, and it is really, and, and also the scenes are long. They’re not short scenes, it’s, like, a long, long, epic scenes that require a lot of, like, definitely clarity in thought, clarity in subtext, clarity in, in intention, and that’s why I say it’s, like, it’s super athletic, so I, I, I definitely can see why it’s at the Shaw Festival. Yeah, for sure.

The language. Yeah. Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
Now, I’m curious, we talked about the difference between this play and Murder on the Lake. Yes. And so, let’s talk, let’s talk a little bit about Murder on the Lake.

What is that play about, and how is it different from Blues for an Alabama Sky?

[Virgilia Griffith]
Yes. Okay. So, Rebecca Northen and Blues Horak are the writers of Murder on the Lake, and it is an improvised murder mystery, and where we engage a, the, the detective of the murder mystery is an audience member, and they are chosen, they are chosen at the beginning of the, the experience, the play, and we play with them.

We have different characters, and we also switch different characters. So, we have the same names, our characters have the same names, but we have different, we play different roles. So, there’s the role of the lover, or the role of the widow, and we, we pick at the end of each show, out of a bag, our role.

So, we cast the, the play every night. And so, it’s very, there’s only two characters that remain the same, but the rest of us, we, it’s a different show, and then it’s also an extremely live show, because the detective is different, and is not an actor. Rebecca Northen, who’s incredible, has been guiding us, and helping us get ready.

It’s also athletic, right? To, to, how do we take care of the audience member? How do we help them solve this murder mystery?

How do we support them, and make them feel taken care of? And what is really amazing, is you get to see people who have never probably been on stage before, are like, by act two, they are like, driving the entire play. And you’re just like, wow, it’s, it’s a really beautiful experience, because they are the stars of the show.

And I, I, I find, for me, the improvisation and spontaneous theatre, which Rebecca, that’s Rebecca’s craft in spontaneous theatre, is that like, it requires you to be so present, and so, in a, and in the kind of presence, where it’s like, super vulnerable, because you don’t know what you’re going to say, when you get up on that stage. You’re just trying to make a connection with the detective, right? And then also dropping clues, to hopefully, they start to, oh, okay, I, oh, this person is like, this, and this person is related to this, and oh, maybe I suspect this person.

And so, we have to breadcrumb, without, without info dumping, if that makes sense, to the detective. And so, that, for me, like, wording, working on Murder on the Lake, has, it just helps me be more present, and more in my body, for blues. Because I’m, I’m, and it also helps, even though I have in blues, like, a piece of text that I have memorized, it still keeps it fresh, if that makes sense.

Like, I’m like, oh, one day, I’m just really improvising off the, off the top of my head, and then the next day, I’m getting to do this beautiful athletic text, which, which I’m able to attack it, in a way of like, you know what, whatever happens, happens. There’s less control, if that makes sense. And there’s more, like, receiving what my scene partner is giving me, or receiving what the moment has to offer.

It just, it, Murder reminds me that I cannot, as an actor, control a moment. I just have to be inside of the thing. So, yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
That makes so much sense. That makes so much sense. And, and to go from something that is so improvisational, into something that’s, that’s so much more text-based, I can absolutely see how, how those two complement each other.

Yeah. Did you have an improv background before coming to Murder on the Lake?

[Virgilia Griffith]
No, I, I had, I spoke with Rebecca, and I was just like, I’m just going to take a leap. I really loved when I first spoke to Rebecca. And I was just like, I really love her vibe.

And she’s just a very real person who has, like, a lot of heart, and a lot of passion for what she does. And like, I was just like, okay, I have no improv, improv background. So I’m just going to leap.

And I took that leap. And that requires courage. And that’s what I think we do as artists.

You’re an actor as well, right?

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, absolutely.

[Virgilia Griffith]
Yeah. As an artist, just, just jumping off the cliff, and just being like, I don’t know what’s going to happen. But some sort of magic will happen, and I’ll grow.

And I think that’s what I’m grateful for this season. It’s my first season, but like, that I have opportunities to grow. Playing Angel is, you know, some people might like her, some people might love her, but she does what she needs to do to survive, for her dreams to come true, her dreams to be a singer, her dreams to be free, you know?

And so yeah, so it’s, I feel like I’m growing. And that’s, that’s a gift, to be honest.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, for sure. It sounds like, I mean, obviously, Rebecca Norlin saw something in you, and believed in you as a potential improviser. Years ago, I got involved with a project that was purely physical theatre, and I’d never done physical theatre before.

And the director was like, no, no, I believe that you can do this. And it was, it was a project that changed my life, but also was so terrifying, to feel like, so terrifying, to be like, I don’t do this. This is not in my background.

But that, just to give yourself over to it, was so rewarding in the end.

[Virgilia Griffith]
Exactly. I agree with you. It’s like, it just, it expands your vision for yourself.

You’re like, oh, at one point, you’re like, I don’t do this. And then you’re like, well, now I do this. And like, now I’m approaching scenes differently.

And like, approaching what it means when something weird, or something that’s not supposed to happen in a scene, let’s say something fell, or whatever, instead of like, freaking out, you’re just like, ah, it’s, and I find it’s, it’s Murder on the Lake. And that process has helped me understand my relationship to failure. And like, oh, okay, it’s 90% of this improvised experience is a lot of like, throwing things at the wall.

And a lot of it may not work. And you just take the note, you take the note, and you’re like, okay, this is how we refine. This is how we like, come together as a team.

So it’s, it’s helped me be like, okay, well, if it’s, if it’s not, if it didn’t hit this time, that’s okay.

[Phil Rickaby]
You know, yeah, there’s a fascinating thing, you know, when when you perform a show, a lot of times, there’s a certain amount of, of sitting back that tends to happen. Even involuntarily, you perform a show 100 times, and there’s a little bit of a, you sort of sit back and like, I know this show. And even though you’re you don’t mean to, you can go into a bit of an autopilot.

But with an improvisational show, there’s no such thing as sitting back because you have to be forward, and like paying attention and concentrating in the way that you mentioned. And I and those are things that, like having that every day, like every other day would be totally like a, an antidote to the familiarity that comes with scripted show.

[Virgilia Griffith]
I think for me, as an actor, I never like to sit back, because I also don’t know, like the opportunities that I’ve gotten, like, you don’t know when you’re going to get them again. Do you know what I mean? And so it’s like, it’s like when I got to play Rebecca West Rosmersholm at Crows with Chris Abraham, it’s like, you don’t know when you’d get to play like an Ibsen part like that.

I don’t I, I am so like, blessed, not to sound cheesy, but I do feel blessed that like, I get the opportunities to play these really challenging parts. And so I know that feeling, especially being in rep where you’re like, Okay, I can’t give 150%. But I can give 100.

Or I can give like, you know what, I’m going to focus on I’m really tired today. So I’m going to focus on the clarity of the text. Or I’m, I’m going to focus in the improvised show murder on the lake, I’m going to focus on making a genuine connection with another human being.

Right? So I’m like, not coming out of the experience feeling like I just, I just wasted a show because we only get so many. And especially being the late opener, the late late openers, you get like 20 something shows that that’s gonna go.

And I don’t want my experience to be like, I didn’t live it to the fullest.

[Phil Rickaby]
Now you mentioned this is your first season at the Shaw Festival. And here you’re in these two late late openers of the festival. And I guess that means that you arrived a little later at the festival than some of the other people.

But how does that? How does being part of this, this legendary festival feel for you just to be there be part of it? How is that for you?

[Virgilia Griffith]
Well, I have to, to be honest, I have to thank Kimberly for that. And I and I always do. She’s championed me from when we did Serving Elizabeth at Stratford.

And, and so like, she saw something in me for me to that she’s like, you know what, you can do Angel in and Blues for an Alabama Sky. And I remember her being like, what about murder on the lake and improvised show? And I was just like, Okay, you think you think I can?

I can do this. And and so it is I arrived in May. And so, to be honest, I work in Toronto predominantly.

So like, we get like three to four weeks. And so working three months, I was like, by the time August came, because I just opened last weekend, by the time I opened, I was like, Whoa, I’ve been sitting with both of these pieces for so long, which is a which is a lot in that, like, I can rest, I can allow it to seep in deeper, I can allow myself to understand what it means to be on stage and, and regulate my nervous system, especially in improv, when I’m like, I don’t know what’s going to come out of my mouth.

I’m now because of those three months, I’ve, I’m now my body is like prepped to like go into these, these, these two experiences. And I think within with Toronto, I know that or when I do shows in Toronto, because we don’t have that much time, I’m so used to jumping in and just driving through. So it was a it was an opportunity to be like, Oh, we’re working today.

Okay, we’re working four hours today. Okay, we’re doing a little rest. And then we’re going to work eight hours tomorrow.

Like it was very, very, what’s the word? It wasn’t rushed. It was more paste was paste.

[Phil Rickaby]
There’s a certain amount of that that is a gift, as you mentioned, the ability to have that kind of time. I’ve heard so many people who have, you know, you have the two to three weeks of rehearsal in in Toronto. And so many people have described that as, listen, we’re just trying to get the lines and the blocking and the costumes, and we’ll figure out character later, like so much, we’re just desperately trying to get through this thing.

And then but to have the opposite and to have the blessing of time to have everything sort of like, sink in and permeate. That is again, it’s that blessing of time that that that we alluded to, which is a wonderful and rare thing.

[Virgilia Griffith]
It is. And it’s, it’s also how you use that time. Because like, if I know I’m going to do a show, and it’s like three weeks of three weeks of rehearsal, then I do prep I do prep beforehand so that I have so that I do get my full experience of using my time in the rehearsal process to like focus on okay, connecting to my scene partners and, and understanding deepening the story from like my ideas of it, versus what what happens when we all come together. So I think it’s it’s, it’s, you know, time is a thing for both. But I think it’s even in this situation with shots, like it’s pace, but how do you use your time?

How do you use your time wisely, you know, because then at a certain point, things start to rev up. And I’m previewing both shows at the same time. And so it’s like, yeah, so it’s like, how do you pace yourself and use that this, the time at the beginning, so that you are like, ready to go when the race starts?

[Phil Rickaby]
I didn’t even think about the fact that those shows would be previewing at the same time. Yeah. Which is, and I think that people who don’t, or aren’t in this industry don’t know how crazy and wild previews can be, because you can make changes to the show, and you still have to rehearse that show.

And those changes while still performing it, it is quite a schedule. So that is wild to be doing that at the same time.

[Virgilia Griffith]
It is wild. And I’ve gotten to two moments where I’m like, Oh my god, my brain is so tired. But then something magical happens when you just like, like, everything is just, the guards are down, you’re just like, Oh, I found something.

And then it’s like a gold nugget. So it’s, it is, it is, again, it’s athletic, and sometimes it’s exhausting. But to push through and make it to the other side is also rewarding as well.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, absolutely. We mentioned Kimberly a couple of times, and I just want to jump in and make sure that we are making sure that it’s Kimberly Rampersand, who is the director of Boots for an Alabama Sky. Yeah.

Yeah. I want to take a second to talk a little bit about you specifically and your, your theatre history, because I’m always curious about how people find their way to this industry, what, what brings them to the theatre. So what is your theatre origin story?

How did you first get involved? And how did you determine or figure out that this was going to be your calling?

[Virgilia Griffith]
Yeah, you know, I thought I was going to be a dancer. To be honest, I, I wanted that to be a professional dancer at one point. And then I auditioned for Cardinal Carter for dance, and I didn’t get in.

And then a friend was like, Oh, why don’t you try theatre? And I was like, theatre acting. And then I was like, I, I got in.

And even when I was doing it, I was like, I’m not sure if that’s what I really want to do. But then I started to see, like, I remember my aunt took me to see Adventures of a Black Girl in Search of God by Janet Sears down by the Harborfront when it was playing there. I was like 14, I believe.

And I think, not I think, I know, seeing, seeing Karen Robinson, like, as this lead and seeing again, like these Black women who are so talented and who are doing stories that I connect to, again, seeing myself does, we talk about representation, but seeing yourself really opens your imagination, going back to the dreaming, opens up your imagination so you can dream, like, dream a bigger dream that you thought you could, you know. So after that, I was like, okay, you know what?

I, I, that was The Colonel. And then I remember I played Elizabeth Proctor in The Crucible with Giacomo Gianetti, who’s like on television now. He’s, he’s such an amazing actor.

He was on Grey’s Anatomy, I believe. But yes, we were like a couple in, in The Crucible in high school. And I remember being like, I really, I really love doing this.

I love the, the service of it. I love how people can see themselves in it. You know?

Yeah. And it also just, it also felt like home. It, the stage feels like home.

[Phil Rickaby]
And was it that sense of home that made you decide that? Because, you know, in some places, some schools, the idea of one of the students going into the theatre, becoming an actor, is something that sort of like stymies the, the, the, the guidance counselor. They don’t know what to suggest.

It could be a bit of a, a bit of a thing. But how, how did you decide that, or figure out that, like, this is a career, not just like a thing that I do because it’s fun?

[Virgilia Griffith]
I think going into theatre school. So I was at, I went to TMU. And, and also my mom is a big part in that she supports so much.

And so her being like, no, you can do this. You can do this. Like that encouraged me to be like, oh yeah.

Okay. This is, this is something that I am capable of doing. And like, when I, being in theatre school and training and, and then coming out of theatre school and then working and then, and then taking, taking and having different mentors.

Like Claire Kalnin gave me my first gig, combat at SummerWorks years ago. And I remember her telling me, it’s like, she pulled me aside after rehearsal once. And she’s like, it’s, you know, you have to take charge of your own process and your own as an actor.

And I, and I, I, it reminded me that I’m an artist. Like you go into school and you learn all of these different types of techniques and you’re a student. So you’re like, you know, trying to do your best and learn and absorb.

And then after theatre school, you’re just like, what kind of artists am I? What, what kinds of things do I want to do? And so, yeah, I feel like in my journey, I’ve had opportunities with people who have been so direct and I love how direct and honest.

And also, again, I say passion. They have a lot of passion and commitment to the work that it, it helped me understand where I fit in the work, if that makes sense.

[Phil Rickaby]
That makes a lot of sense. And I mean, I like what you talk about, what you were saying about like, you know, when you’re in theatre school, you’re sort of absorbing all of this stuff, but then you have to figure out who you are as an artist. And I think sometimes the theatre schools don’t prepare you for that choice.

You have to figure that out on your own. Like you have to get out of school and like all of the things I’ve absorbed, what does that now mean now that it’s in my body?

[Virgilia Griffith]
Exactly. You know, I never, like I did Clown with Leah Cherniak and I remember I was like, what am I going to do Clown? And now I’m doing Murder on the Lake with like, Rebecca Morrison.

And I’m like, oh, I’m just like, oh, these things come up. And it also, I think for me coming out of theatre school and, and I, cause I was without an agent for a while because I wanted to empower myself. I was like with theatre, sometimes it’s just word of mouth, you know?

And, um, I wanted to try different. I got the opportunity to try different independent like theatre stuff, which I was so grateful to because I got to throw things against the wall and be like, oh, maybe I’m not that kind of artist. And I think I’ve grown to realize I, I want to make art that is, that has joy in it.

And that also has like some hard truths that makes you look at yourself and, and go like, okay, what do I, that, what do I need to reflect on? Or what do I need to, yeah. What do I need to reflect on?

Or what do I need to, to, to investigate or, or, or I’m like trying, I lost my train of thought of what I need to reflect on. What do I need to investigate? What do I need to change?

What do I love about myself? All of these things that make us human and messy, you know?

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. I, I know that you, you love adventure and traveling. And of course, often theatre allows us those opportunities.

And, but I think one of the things that people who, again, who might not be in the industry don’t think about is the learning new things, because every actor, playwright, director I know has absorbed so many random facts from all of the things that they’ve done. And so many random skills that, how can you not love an industry where you get to like, just fill yourself up with all of this stuff?

[Virgilia Griffith]
Of course. Like you, I, you have to live, you have to live. And I think that is also a part of like work and the work and, and the craft of it is like, live, go out there and like feel and, and break apart.

Like Pema Chodron, this monk, Buddhist monk, like talks about breaking apart and coming back together in that, like have experiences. I, I went to Ghana a couple of years ago by myself for like a month and a half. And I lived by myself and I was like, oh my God, this is amazing.

I learned how to, I learned how to, I did a lot of pottery. I did a lot of pottery and I did a lot of like traveling and sightseeing. And like, it was just nice to meet myself in other places on different continents.

[Phil Rickaby]
I love that, that phrase to meet yourself in different places and being able to figure out who you are when you’re not at home is such a rare gift.

[Virgilia Griffith]
Yes. When you’re not on like North American soil or like, do you know what I mean? Like it’s, I, and, and, and being immersed and knowing that you’re North American and being immersed in another person’s culture and like being humbled by like, I’m just gonna learn and, and, and observe.

And I am, I am honored to, to have this experience and the opportunity to even travel. Some people can’t travel, you know?

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. No, it is a privilege to be able to travel and to be able to experience the cultures of other places. You have had the privilege of working with some wonderful people and just looking at your, your history of, of work.

And for example, you, you did win an award for your work on Gas Girls, but written by Donna Michelle St. Bernard, who’s just an incredible playwright. Dora, Dora Mae Vermeule awards and things like that. Working with Jordan Tannehill and though that you worked, you were at Carhoots at one point, all of this amazing work with, with so many companies.

I don’t want to make it into a list of like all of the amazing people that you’ve worked with. I could, cause there’s so many, but as you have worked with all of these different companies around Toronto and, and, and Canada, are there things that you have learned about whether it’s theatre or about yourself and your process in, in, while working with all of these different, wonderful people?

[Virgilia Griffith]
I feel like I take, there’s always something to, to learn from each project. And I think I, I always make a pact with myself. Like I look at what is, again, in front of me and, and I, I go, okay, this is where I need to go in this, this character journey or in this play.

And I think being surrounded by artists that care and that want to transform and change and, and, and also say something about the world that we’re in. And, and I, I think that I’ve learned my discipline from a lot of artists that I’ve worked with. And I’ve learned to, to protect that, if that makes sense, because I love, I love to work and sometimes it’s like intense for some people and that’s okay.

Like I love to dig in there and I love to, and I love to be surrounded by like-minded and people, artists that are aligned in that way. And I’ve had a lot of experiences where I’ve been aligned with a lot of artists who are just like, let’s like do something. Let’s do something with the opportunity we have and the energy we have and this moment, you know?

And so, yeah, I just, I think every, every show that I’ve done, I’ve felt activated to continue to continue my drive.

[Phil Rickaby]
There is certainly something about working with people, with working with excellent people, with working with driven people. You elevate each other when you’re working with amazing people. And it is, again, I’ve used this word so many times in this conversation with you, but it is a blessing.

It’s a gift. And working with great people makes you work harder.

[Virgilia Griffith]
It is. And it’s, I think, both working with Kimberley Ramprasad and Rebecca Northen, like I’ve, I’ve felt that where I’m just like, I, we just want to, we just want to keep the bar, elevating the bar. And like, it, it feels like you are, it feels like, and I don’t even know how this, I hope what I’m about to say makes sense, where that you’re like fully, you’re fully engaging in your humanness, in your, your potential, your, your every, like you are, nothing is wasted.

And yeah, I always, I always say like, there’s no time, especially when you get the opportunity to do theatre or like, whatever type of art that you’re doing. But like, there, there isn’t the time. I think now, especially now these days, it’s just like, there’s so much to say.

And there’s so much to say. And there’s so much that people are processing. And it’s like, yeah, there, I love the feeling of when I’m around people who are just like, they just want to top the next thing and go further and go further and go further.

I don’t know if you’ve ever seen Free Solo. It’s a documentary.

[Phil Rickaby]
I’ve not, but I know, I know of it. Yeah.

[Virgilia Griffith]
The guy who climbs the mountain, like the mountain, like without any harness or anything. And I loved that film, that documentary, because his determination of like, I’m going to climb that mountain. And I understand that I may die, you know, but I’m going to practice and practice and practice.

I’m going to practice and I’m going to use my time to practice. And then he gets there. And it’s so rewarding.

And you could see it in his eyes that he’s like, I want to do something even bigger. You know, like, it’s just topping. It’s, it’s living fully to me, living, living your fullest potential.

[Phil Rickaby]
I love how you, you’ve mentioned a few times about like, when you get the opportunity, you take it, you want to do something with it. And I think that there is, I don’t want to speak for a lot of people, but there can be the danger in, in a theatre career where you’re just waiting for something, right. You’re waiting for the role.

You’re waiting for this. You’re waiting for that. But to drive forward, having like taken a role and decided, like, especially when you’re like finding like-minded people and you can say, let’s do something is so exciting because that energy can carry you so much further than just you’re, you’re a vessel for this show, but also like you’re driving it instead of, instead of having somebody else drive it for you.

[Virgilia Griffith]
And it, I think also too, like to be able to, again, I’ve, I’ve never, I remember doing a show at Mur, doing a murder show, murder on the lake, we call it murder, but murder on the lake and, and being like, wow, when am I ever going to get to do an improv show again? Like this is this, who knows? Like, who knows?

So take it, take it and just do the best you can with it. And I think even with Angel and Blues for an Alabama Sky, like all of these characters, the writing, it’s alive. These things are alive.

So like, if you don’t really take it and jump in fully, you’re not honoring the, the, the, the play because there are the players and there’s the work that you do. And then the play will do its thing. That’s what I always believe.

The play has a life of its own. And so like, you kind of like, it’s never about you, which we know, but you, you have to honor that energy of the play, if that makes sense.

[Phil Rickaby]
No, that makes perfect sense. That makes perfect sense. I think that a lot of times theatre can teach us things when we’re in rehearsal and when we’re in preview and we’re like putting it in front of an audience, it could teach us things about either the show, the place we’re in, who we are.

It teaches about audiences. As you’ve been putting these two shows in front of audiences, what have you learned either about the shows or about the audiences who’ve been experiencing it?

[Virgilia Griffith]
I think for Murder on the Lake, just because I just finished the matinee, like it’s, they want to see the detective win. They want to see the detective like, solve it. And I think again, going back to the service of like, meeting an energy, like a person you don’t know, and you’re creating a scene with them.

And the scene has to have, in a way, a beginning, middle, and end. And you have to somehow be changed by each other, like you would with writing, if it was dialogue, but like that your humanness meets, if you allow it, and if you surrender to it, your humanness can meet their humanness. And it just, and what you can see changed in them, like what you can see, like, you can see how they grow in two hours.

And you can see how the audience reacts to wanting them to like, oh, there’s that clue. You’re not looking at that thing. Or like, you know what I mean?

Like, they’re so invested, because you have revealed something about yourself as a human, and they, being the detective is like, I don’t know what I’m doing. I’m, if you’re revealing, I guess I’m revealing too. So we’re just now there, the audience is like, yay, humanity.

I think that makes sense, because they can connect too. And I think that is, I think that’s something that I love about acting. And even in blues, where it’s like, when I am revealing, when I reveal something, that allows my scene partner to reveal something, that allows the other scene partner to reveal something.

And then the audience is like, oh, I’m invested, because I know what that’s like. I know that that human thing, you know, I see it, I see myself in it, or I see my cousin in it, or see, you know, so it’s, it is the, it is the risk to be vulnerable, rather than masking, right, asking, like putting on the thing, rather than being like, I’m, there’s one part that Travis Seto in Murder on the Lake, he, he has a scene with the detective before the detective meets the rest of the friends at the B&B.

So the Murder on the Lake starts with, there was a murder in a friend group at a B&B the year before. And it was a heart attack, but little do you know, it was a murder. And then you figure it out.

And then the detective gets to the B&B and solves it, or they, you know, figure out, they figure it out. And Travis Seto has a scene with the detective first. And, and I remember one moment, he was like, I’m nervous.

And, and the detective was like, Oh, why are you nervous? And he explained, you know, like, I lost a friend, you know, and then this detective was said something like, you know, I understand life is full of ups and downs, but, you know, you’re gonna get through it, like something so comforting. And it was so beautiful.

Like just that exchange of, I want to solve this murder, because that person was dear to me. And that comfort of you will, and like, you’ll get through this. It right.

It’s so beautiful. But it’s just two people revealing their humanity. And yeah, that’s why, again, I love what I do.

And, and I, I get to still do that work in a text, a fixed text as well with Pearl Clegg’s work.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, I can imagine that an audience going to Murder on the Lake is expecting to have a fun time at a at an improv show, and didn’t expect to that the show was about community.

[Virgilia Griffith]
Yeah, I know. And it’s, and it’s like, there’s a difference. And Rebecca has shared this, that there’s a difference in like, improvising a play, versus a sketch, right?

That it is like, you do need to see character development as the show goes on. So you are in charge of, like, coming in with different wants for of the detective to change and grow. And so yeah, like it is, it is, it is a whirlwind being at the Shaw Festival.

But I honestly, like, I, I lucked out with these two plays.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. And it must be, I mean, Rebecca having done Blind Date for so many years, must have so much to teach about how you take somebody out of the audience, and help them have a character arc.

[Virgilia Griffith]
Yeah, totally. And it’s like, you, and again, it’s like three months of rehearsal, where you’re just like, oh, you’re, you’re, you start to learn what that is, and you fail a lot. You know what I’m saying?

And then you get up on that stage, and then we know, we all know as a community when it clicks. And you’re like, oh, something, that was a really good show. Like that was, I learned a lot about this person that I did not know, you know, a lot about this detective.

So yeah, and I also think like, going back to Blues, it’s, there’s a lot of depth to Pearl’s writing, where I’ve just having feedback, hearing feedback from different audience members, where it’s like, you’re so, it feels like you are, the studio space is very intimate. So it really does feel like you are inside of this world of these, these people who are trying to survive. And, and a lot of people are moved by it.

They’re moved by that play.

[Phil Rickaby]
Well, intimate space is so interesting to perform in, because there’s no hiding from the audience. Like there’s no, you know, some, some people get up on a big stage, and the lights sort of hide the audience, because they’re so bright, and the audience goes back so far, you can only see a couple of people, but in intimate space, it’s just like, there they are, there are these other people tonight, and we’re in this together. You know, such a different experience.

[Virgilia Griffith]
Yes, and it requires you again, to just talk to your scene partner, to talk to your scene partner, and just be like, this is where I am. I’m not going to force where I, I’m not going to force where I think I’m supposed to be. I’m going to speak to you, and you’re going to speak back.

And just that, just that trust, that that is enough to talk to each other. They lean in. The audience leans in, and, and they’re taken on a ride.

And that is what I’ve learned this year at the Shaw Festival, is simplicity. Simplicity in the improv. Simplicity.

Sometimes just being like, how are you? Like in an improv, you know what I mean? It’s just really just like asking questions, and being curious.

And I think, yes, simplicity and curiosity have been guiding me in the last couple of months.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, and audience leaning in is like one of the most wonderful things, right? They’re not, they’re, when an audience, and you can feel when it happens, like an audience just sort of like pushing forward, and like they’re in it, is such a wonderful moment to, to experience. And you’ve had that experience with Blues from Alabama Sky, obviously.

[Virgilia Griffith]
For sure. They, they, they are so invested. And the thing about Pearl is that she has, she writes about five characters, and they all, no one is left out.

They all have an arc. They all have something they’re wrestling with during that time period. And they all have a need and a want, whether it’s like needing to be successful, needing to find, needing to find the love of their life, and like build a family, needing to be in love, that kind of stuff.

Or like needing to imagine a space that isn’t here, that isn’t Harlem, you know? I hope this is all, because it’s very, a very layered play.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah.

[Virgilia Griffith]
Like the needs are strong, and they’re present, and they’re, they’re, they’re primal in a way that it’s like, these people are yearning for these things right now. They’re yearning for very human things. And then it’s like, and then there’s the layers of gender.

Then there’s the layers of having different Black experiences, that each character has a very different Black experience in this play. And their sexuality, all of that, all of, all of those things. And how they wrestle with each other.

And they hurt each other. And then they also love each other, because they want to, they want to win. They want to win at life.

They want to, to have that human experience. Does that make sense?

[Phil Rickaby]
It makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense. Just as we’re sort of getting to the end of our time, I want to thank you, because I know that, you know, like you said, you did, you did a matinee today.

And then, and then, then came and talked to me. So I can imagine that’s a lot. And I really appreciate the time that you’ve given me today.

And thank you for coming on the show.

[Virgilia Griffith]
Thank you. Thank you for having me. It was great chatting.

[Phil Rickaby]
Thanks for listening to this episode of Stageworthy. Before I get to my guest next week, let me talk about Patreon. My Patreon is how I’m able to create this show.

And I’m so grateful to my patrons for backing this show. Patrons get early access to episodes, participating conversations about about topics that we’re going to cover. They are the brain trust for this episode, and they really are partners in making this show happen.

If you want to back the show, if you want to back the podcast, go to patreon.com/stageworty and back the show. It only costs $7 Canadian a month to back the show. And by doing so you help me make this show.

I do need more backers. The patrons that I have are helping to cover the cost currently. But you may have noticed if you’re looking on the website, I’m no longer able to offer transcripts because a lot of the services that I’ve been using the ones that are super affordable, take a lot of work to clean up.

And it just became not worth it to spend the amount of time that it takes to clean up those transcripts. And so there are services that are much better, but they are more expensive. And so I need more backers to be able to have transcript once again.

And so I do need you if you’re considering backing this show, if you’re considering becoming a patron, I do need you to do so. So go to patreon.com/stageworthy and become a patron. And my guest next week is Chelsea Woolley.

Chelsea is the playwright of Nightwood theatre’s enormity girl and the earthquake in her lungs, which is coming this fall to Nightwood theatre. So I will see you next week for that episode as I talk with Chelsea Woolley.