425. Nancy Kenny

About This Episode:
This week on Stageworthy, host Phil Rickaby is joined by Nancy Kenny, an actor, writer, and producer whose latest show, I Don’t Feel Pretty/Chu pas cute, will have readings at the 2025 Halifax Fringe Festival. In this warm and insightful conversation, Nancy shares the deeply personal inspiration behind her show, the balance between humour and vulnerability in storytelling, and the journey of shaping a one-person play from lived experience.

This episode explores:

The origins of I Don’t Feel Pretty/Chu pas cute and its autobiographical elements
Using humour to explore challenging personal topics
The Fringe Festival as a space for experimentation and connection
Lessons learned from workshopping solo performance
Building audience trust and creating space for shared vulnerability

Guest:
🎭 Nancy Kenny
A proud Acadian originally from New Brunswick, Nancy Kenny is a fluently bilingual (French/English) actor, writer, theatre and film producer, who splits her time between Kjipuktuk/Halifax and Tkaronto/Toronto. She is best known for the award-winning, critically acclaimed plays, Roller Derby Saved My Soul (Canadian Comedy Award nominee – Best One Person Show), and Everybody Dies in December. Nancy is also the executive producer of On the Fringe, a feature documentary about touring the Canadian Fringe Festival circuit. (Winner: Best Documentary Film, 2023 Screen Nova Scotia Awards). Currently, she is working on I Don’t Feel Pretty/Chu pas cute, an absurdist dark comedy set in the fractured mind of an alcoholic on a bender. Through her company, Broken Turtle Productions, Nancy’s focus is in stories that explore the role of women, marginalized genders, and 2SLGBTQ+ people in society. She is particularly interested in new and multilingual works, as well as works that explore our humanity with a darkly comedic bent.

Connect with Nancy:
🌐 website: https://www.nancykenny.ca/
📸 Instagram: @thenancykenny

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Transcript

[Phil Rickaby]
Hello, welcome to Stageworthy. I’m Phil Rickaby, the host and producer of this podcast. This is Canada’s Theatre Podcast.

On this podcast, I talk to people who make theatre, some of whom you may have heard of, and others I think you really should get to know. This week, I’m going to be talking to playwright, actor, producer, Nancy Kenny. Before I get to that, let’s take care of a little bit of housekeeping.

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I want to give a shout out to my patrons who I could not make this show without. They are the reason I’m able to make this show, and they’re part of the team that helps to make sure that this show gets made. Without them, I’m just a one-man show, and that’s the way it’s been for the entire history of this podcast.

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By joining, by becoming a patron, you become part of the team. I would love to have you. Like I said, my guest this week is Nancy Kenney.

Nancy is a playwright, performer, producer, the writer, and performer of Vola Derby Saved My Soul, which was a critically-acclaimed, award-winning friends show that toured all over North America. Nancy has some great stuff coming up, as well as new play reading at the Halifax Fringe. I can’t wait for you to listen to this conversation.

Here is my conversation with Nancy Kenny. Nancy Kenny, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me.

We haven’t actually spoken since, I think we spoke briefly when I was in Halifax at the Halifax Fringe, but I don’t think we’ve talked since then. When were you here?

[Nancy Kenny]
What year were you here?

[Phil Rickaby]
2018, I think.

[Nancy Kenny]
Okay. I wasn’t living here at the time. Yeah.

I was here, I think, maybe doing the Fringe at that time.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, I think you were very briefly here. I think the last time I saw you was you were on the TV show From, and I did one of these.

[Nancy Kenny]
I mean, it’s filmed in Halifax, so I do that a lot because there’s a lot of people from here.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, yeah. I’m sure, I’m sure what you’re like, because it’s filmed there, you do the same probably every episode.

[Nancy Kenny]
Yeah, basically.

[Phil Rickaby]
I think, why don’t we start off by talking about I Don’t Feel Pretty, which is your new play that’s being read, which is having a reading at the end of the Halifax Fringe. So tell me, tell me about that show.

[Nancy Kenny]
Yeah, I Don’t Feel Pretty. It’s actually, it’s a bilingual show, so it has a bilingual title. So it’s, I Don’t Feel Pretty, Super Cute.

And it’s a, it’s actually supposed to be a choral ensemble piece for a group of women, does not have a number to the number, like I don’t specify how many women to have in the show. And I don’t assign lines to, like, any anyone in the show. It’s written as a giant, like, stream of consciousness piece.

But the the idea behind it is, it’s set in the mind of an alcoholic on a bender. And I say it’s scored to the biggest pop hits of the late 90s and early 80s. And that’s why like, it’s a chorus, because it’s all in someone’s head.

But because I, it’s so hard to get workshopping and development money, I decided to do a reading of it at the fringe. And because it doesn’t have any characters assigned, I was like, well, I could just have one I could just be me reading it.

[Phil Rickaby]
Now, with with, I want to get into the writing of it in a minute. But how does having a single voice read this change the the play rather than a chorus?

[Nancy Kenny]
We’ll see. But honestly, because so much of it comes is from my own voice. And, and to me, the chorus represents like the different aspects of the voices we have in our heads, you know, like, the negative voice, the positive voice, the, in my case, because there’s quite a bit of French in the show, the French represents the kind of like child voice, because I grew up in a Francophone environment.

So at the end, though, they’re all my voice. So to me, it doesn’t change much. Because I, there’s a rhythm to the piece, like, to me, it’s almost it’s almost more like music than speech.

Like I find a lot of it, it’s spoken word a lot of times. So to me, it’s one voice works can work just as well as like multiple voices doing it.

[Phil Rickaby]
Now, I noticed on your website, there’s a couple of pictures of a reading or performance of the play. So this is not the first time that this play has been read or presented. Was that a workshop?

Or?

[Nancy Kenny]
Yeah, this play has been in development, I think, since like 2019, maybe something like that. And it started as a monologue. Like I initially I was going to do this.

Actually, what’s interesting is I was going I was looking at doing this as like a solo piece, like as a another one woman show, which I’ve done a couple of those. And because I had done a couple of those, and I had taken a writing workshop with the wonderful Marjorie Chan on writing. And in the workshop, we had a bunch of women read parts of the piece.

That’s when I realized I was like, oh, it sounds so lovely when you have all these different voices saying all the different lines, which is how it became a multi character piece. But I’ve been like, working away at it bit by bit and doing like, little readings at different events or are bringing a couple pages and testing it out with people. And so it’s, it’s been in development for a while.

But it’s one of those things where, in the past, I would be also because I had like other work, I would, I would have another job that would sustain me. And then I would, you know, do my writing for free. And now it’s like, I kind of need money to do the writing to be able to sustain me while I’m doing it, if that makes sense.

[Phil Rickaby]
Makes perfect sense.

[Nancy Kenny]
Perfect sense. I need money, Phil.

[Phil Rickaby]
I mean, this is this, I think, personally, I think this is one of the big dilemmas of any playwright, especially in Canada, where money is not falling from the skies.

[Nancy Kenny]
Not yet.

[Phil Rickaby]
But for I think for that, you know, you can apply for grants, you can apply for stuff, but the granting organizations are cutting back on the money they’re giving. And so it becomes harder and harder for the playwright to actually get paid for the writing process.

[Nancy Kenny]
Yeah, the whole process has been very piecemeal. Like, I’ve been very lucky, again, because I had done that workshop with Marjorie, she got interested in the piece. And so I did like, the Buzz development residencies at Theatre Passe-Muraille, got together with a women’s group at Pat the Dog Theatre in Kitchener-Waterloo and got to do some work on it there.

And then I did get a grant when I moved out here to Nova Scotia, I did get a grant from Arts Nova Scotia. And that was like the biggest grant I got. And so I was actually able to sit and write, you know, for a couple, like I had rent for like three months, and had money to hire actors to come and like, actually, and a director dramaturge and like, actually get to work with them in person, which for this piece, like the in-person aspect, the movement ideas, because a lot of there’s a lot of like, devised movement in the piece, watching the actors just make discoveries and make movement discoveries helped me discover where the story was going next. And that’s the thing that I thought was like, I once I realized that I’m like, oh, that is so important to have that, like, feedback that interaction in this particular writing process that I have.

So it’s, it unfortunately, it’s something that costs, it costs money to do.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. Now, how did how did this play start as an idea for you?

[Nancy Kenny]
So back when I used to live in Toronto, there was an event called Dark Day Monday, which was a cabaret event, where you could do like, whatever, basically. And but every month had a different theme. And my my ex used to run this cabaret and someone dropped out at the at the last minute, like the week before.

And they asked me, they said, Do you have anything that you would like to present? And I said, No, because I didn’t have I didn’t have anything new to present. Because as soon as they asked me, if I had something to present, I got so scared, like so scared.

And that and I said no immediately. And that’s when I realized I was like, Oh, the theme was lies. And because of that, I was like, because of that visceral reaction that I had, I was like, Oh, maybe I do have something to say.

And I wrote a piece that’s still in the play now, and presented it at the at the cabaret. So I wrote what was essentially a monologue and presented it and the reaction I got from people was so strong. Like, so many people came up to me afterwards to talk about it or to talk how affected they were by it.

That I was like, I, I think there’s something here like I have to keep have to keep doing this because I never received such a visceral reaction to any of the work I’d created before.

[Phil Rickaby]
Hmm. I mean, you not even I mean, you you have this it wouldn’t have been the first solo play that you’d presented you you had a roller derby to save my soul and everybody dies in December.

[Nancy Kenny]
Yeah.

[Phil Rickaby]
As your previous solo shows, which they had a claim. They were they were things that people saw and liked. What do you think was different about this one?

[Nancy Kenny]
Um, do you mean to like wanting to not do it as a solo show?

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, or either what the just with you? What is the especially at that time when you’re conceiving of it?

[Nancy Kenny]
Well, at first when I was conceiving of it, I had considered doing it as a solo. And then I was just tired. I was, I was tired of like, I, I’d spent quite a few years doing solo shows.

And I, I just didn’t want to anymore. And like, I just I wanted to play with other people. And I want to like, you know, I just miss collaboration, because I do in some ways, like if I if I do put on the show, I do think that I’m going to be in it.

That’s one of my goals. But I didn’t want to do it by myself. Because I had been doing that so much.

And then the pandemic hits. And you couldn’t do stuff with other people. So I’ve always toyed back and forth with this piece as whether do it as a solo, or do it as a group piece.

But that’s what I think is so great about the way I’ve written it is that it could be either because I haven’t defined who says what, you could have one person do it. Or you could have five people do it.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, it is always amazing how many stories include and then the pandemic happened. Yeah, I do want to talk about your two solo shows. The first was Roller Derby Saved My Soul.

How did you decide or how did that show come about? And how did you decide to start performing solo?

[Nancy Kenny]
That was out of necessity. It was one of those things. I mean, Roller Derby now that was, that’s 2011 was when I created that piece.

And that was, you know, I had been graduated from university for a while, I had done some fringe festivals, which I really enjoyed. But, you know, it was just not getting any work, like not getting cast, like having a theatre degree and not getting cast in anything. You know, it was pure necessity of like, well, I guess I should make something.

And I had made a couple shows that I had presented at my local fringe, which was in Ottawa at the time, that didn’t do very well. They’re not very good, even though like, I look at them now. I’ve been out.

Yeah, they’re not very good. But I always like saw all these solo performers who would come to the fringe. And I thought they were incredible.

Jason McDonald was one of them, Martin Dockery, like, just amazing solo performers. And the other aspect was like, if I wanted to tour a show, I was like, touring a show sounds so fun. If I wanted to do that, like financially, doing it alone is a lot better, easier in a lot, financially anyway, in a lot of ways.

So that’s why I wanted to do a solo show. And as for the idea, I didn’t know what it was gonna be about. I didn’t even know how to write a solo show.

But I was at a coffee shop one time. And I even I remember this, I was at the coffee shop. There was a local paper on the table.

And the cover article was about roller derby. And I read the article. And I was like, this is the coolest thing I have ever heard about.

And that’s kind of where it started. I like could learn to roller derby so I could write a show about it.

[Phil Rickaby]
It’s interesting. You know, you mentioned that you didn’t know how to write a solo play. And I think I think that’s pretty common.

I don’t think I think most people just figure out how to write their solo play. Yeah, the first time you only you learn how to write that solo play. And then next time, you figure that out.

I don’t. I mean, some people might have a formula, but I don’t know what it is.

[Nancy Kenny]
I also don’t know what it is. I like wrote that play. And it took me about five or six years, like because I’m still performing it, but it kept changing as I as I went.

And it took about five or six years until I was like, okay, this is this is the show. Actually, so funny. The script is right.

[Phil Rickaby]
I did. I noticed it in the background. Very clever placement.

[Nancy Kenny]
And that was not planned. I totally forgot that was there. But that like that I was to the point where I was like, okay, I am ready to print the script.

And even now like I would I would update this if I were to like do it again. But it took five or six years so that when like I was like, okay, great. I got that one out of the way.

The next one is not going to take that long to write. And the next one was Everybody Dies in December. And yes, it took that long to write.

And even then it’s not done. I’m so not happy with where that script is at right now. I tried to pick it up again and like, potentially put it up here in Halifax, like do some rewrites and put it up.

And unfortunately, I’ve I went through two or three granting cycles and didn’t get any money for it. And so I have to put that one on the back burner.

[Phil Rickaby]
The magic of theatre is that you can make changes, right? A movie or a TV show, it’s done. Yeah, you put in film, you edit, it’s done.

And the magic of theatre is that every time you revisit, you can make changes.

[Nancy Kenny]
Now, you’re the author.

[Phil Rickaby]
If you’re the author, that’s the that’s again, the benefit of being the person who’s writing and performing a solo play. You get to make those changes when you perform it. What did performing the show teach you about the show?

[Nancy Kenny]
Oh, wow. Well, roller derby, a lot of it was learning comedy. You know, like, being able to perform it in front of an audience and knowing, like what they found funny.

That was a big part of it. And that’s usually a lot of the areas where I would tweak things because I would improvise jokes sometimes. And if they if they landed, then they they stayed in the show.

I think that’s that’s the biggest thing that I learned doing the show.

[Phil Rickaby]
One of the things that that I learned performing a solo show is really how to feel the audience and to know, like to really know how to take them on the journey and sort of feel it. OK, this audience needs a little extra tonight because it’s two o’clock on a Wednesday or whatever. And like you need to to work a little harder, like just feel like what does this audience need to get this moment, this joke into?

And I to me, it was amazing to actually learn how to do that. Did you find anything like that?

[Nancy Kenny]
But do you find so so that’s interesting what you say. So I do kind of get what you’re saying. But do you find that sometimes you can get into your head about that, that like a quiet audience doesn’t necessarily mean that they need more push?

Do you know?

[Phil Rickaby]
It’s it’s true. A quiet audience doesn’t necessarily need it. And you can feel that way.

And so sometimes like you don’t know and you make the mistake of like this audience needs a bit more. And other times it is very clear, depending sometimes depending on the space, if it’s a really intimate space, you kind of know exactly what they’re feeling. Yeah.

And it wasn’t always like this needs a bit more. Sometimes it was just a matter of this needs a beat before I say the next thing, like somehow you can feel that they need a moment before you move on to the next thing.

[Nancy Kenny]
Yeah, that I agree with, because like I feel sometimes, especially in theatre, people can get into, I don’t want to say robotic or mechanical, but like you just play it by like, you know, by heart, like you’re just kind of repeating what you did the night before. And I think if you’re a really good performer, you can still incorporate all that stuff. But because you know what the audience is, is there for or wants, you can like, it’s jazz, you know, instead of like a fixed score, if that makes sense.

[Phil Rickaby]
It makes perfect sense. The audience, I mean, especially in a solo play, the audience is in conversation, you’re in conversation with the audience.

[Nancy Kenny]
100%. Sometimes literally in conversation, literally asking them things.

[Phil Rickaby]
They are your scene partner. So in a play, when you’re in, like in a play with a bunch of other people, it’s not ever the same, or it shouldn’t always be the same because you’re working off what the other actor is giving you. So there might be might be a little differences.

With a solo play, you’re the audience is your scene partner. And so you are very attuned to what they’re giving you.

[Nancy Kenny]
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[Phil Rickaby]
You sort of mentioned about everybody dies in December. You mentioned that it didn’t quite grow to the place where you really wanted to in the time that you were doing it. Is that just because you haven’t had as many opportunities to perform it?

Because you performed roller derby a lot.

[Nancy Kenny]
Yeah, I performed it like, I know it was like, I think it was like 130 performances or something like that. I think that’s part of it, for sure. I think some of it was just like, it just hasn’t said it hadn’t settled.

Like, I was never happy with the ending of the show. Just to clarify to anybody who happens to be listening, like the the premise of the show, it takes place in a funeral home. And the funeral director speaks to the audience as if they’re one of the bodies on the table.

But because there’s the main character and what she’s going through in her life, because she’s talking about her life, and it takes place in a funeral home, I feel like someone important has to die, you know, at the end of the show. And I never really landed on who that person should be for that character, and where her arc is going.

[Phil Rickaby]
That is a little bit like a Chekhov’s gun kind of thing. If a play happens in a funeral home, somebody has to die.

[Nancy Kenny]
Or maybe not, and that’s a whole other thing. I’m like, maybe not, but I still never quite figured that part out. And also, just because I feel like my life went into different places, because what happened after, again, pandemic happened, I was actually supposed to do Everybody Dies in December at the Revolver Festival in Vancouver in May 2020.

And I was doing rewrites, and I was getting ready for the festival. And then it got cancelled. And I actually felt a lot of relief, because, you know, sad that I wasn’t going to do it, sad because of everything that was going on, but a little bit of relief, because I was like, I’m not satisfied with this piece.

So I think I need more time to work on it. But unfortunately, in the middle of a massive pandemic, writing a show about death was not what I wanted to do. I don’t know why, I just didn’t feel called to it.

[Phil Rickaby]
I can understand that. I understand that.

[Nancy Kenny]
Yeah. And then, you know, I went through a lot of like, my own life changes and like, things like that. It’s like, you know, I, I, before the pandemic, I became sober.

And so there was like a whole thing about that. And so they’re just, you know, aging in general, and, you know, losing family members, and all of this kind of stuff. I was like, so much has changed that like, the story doesn’t at all doesn’t work for me right now.

And, and so I feel like I may go back to it at some point, but if I think it’s going to need a massive overhaul, if I do. And what I find hard right now, like the times that I’ve like, picked it up and looked at it, and wondered, like, okay, what am I doing here? Like, what are we doing?

There’s just like, I think what it needs is to be like, completely scrapped and start again. Because instead, what I’m trying to do is like fit new things into old, old hooks, and it’s not, it’s not working.

[Phil Rickaby]
No, that and that’s, that’s tough. That’s tough. Because I think what you’re talking about, like fitting new stuff into the old is a habit.

Like, that’s easy. It’s a little easier to the writer’s brain. They’re like, Oh, I have to take all the work that I’ve done over the last three years.

Delete it and start over. It’s hard because like, all the enthusiasm that you had for writing it, just hitting that delete key that can almost delete that enthusiasm.

[Nancy Kenny]
Well, and also, there’s like a point where I wonder to myself, I’m like, maybe I’m just done with this. You know, like, maybe me personally, I just don’t have anything to say on this subject. And because I’m so excited about other things right now, like my new play, I’m very excited about that piece, very scared of it, but like very excited.

And also like the roller derby show, I’m, I’ve been like working on turning it into a TV show, you know, and, and I’ve also been hired by other people to do some writing and those things excite me. And so it’s like, well, if this one isn’t exciting me right now, like why force it? You know, because there’s nothing, there’s nothing that I’m getting.

I don’t have a deadline for something. I’m not, no one’s paying me to do something with it. So it’s like, there’s nothing like, why, why force that right now if it’s not happening?

Yeah, for sure.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, it is. It is. If you’re not called to work on the thing, and like you said, there’s no benefit, there’s not, it’s not like giving you anything to work on it, then it can rest for a bit.

Yeah. And maybe in that time, the ending will come to you because endings are hard. Oh my God.

[Nancy Kenny]
Oh my God. I mean, I will say with roller derby, I knew how it was going to end. Like that one was one that I knew, like I even knew what the final image was.

Like I just had that in my head and made everything else so much easier, but everybody dies. And even this one, I don’t feel pretty. I am, I’m almost there with the ending.

Like I kind of, I did a read of it just a couple days ago. And I was like, okay, I see what I’m getting at here, what I’m trying to say. And so I feel a lot better about that.

And part of the fringe is for me to like hear it with an audience so I can see what their reactions are and hopefully, maybe get some feedback afterwards to see if like what I’m thinking they’re seeing. And so that feels good. But yeah, like not having an ending is like, it’s like you’re just dangling over the void here.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. But I mean, that’s what workshops are really great for is to, to sort of find, find that ending, to find an ending that is right for the show. And also one that, you know, it seems like a mechanical thing, but it kind of lets the audience know that the play is over.

Yeah. So they don’t have to be told, you know, it’s that awkward, I know, but even when you do a blackout, sometimes people sort of sit on their hands, is that the end? Does that feel like an ending?

So you really need to find, you have to find the right ending for the show that works for the show and the audience. Yeah. Now also you have coming up, you’ll be appearing in Mad Mads at Neptune Theatre in January and February.

How do you feel about working on that?

[Nancy Kenny]
Oh my God, I’m so freaking excited. First of all, not the least, because this is in all the years, like I’ve been doing theatre for like 20 plus years, we’re old snout. And I like, I have never done an Equity A-House stage before.

[Phil Rickaby]
That is exciting.

[Nancy Kenny]
Yeah. So this is my first like big main stage production. The cast is phenomenal.

All local people here. The script is awesome. Like Rose Napoli’s script, like when I read that script, Jeremy Webb is directing it here, the artistic director, like, so it’s going to be like a really funny, fun time for this show.

I don’t know. Did you get to see it in Toronto?

[Phil Rickaby]
I did not. It was one of those ones. It was on my list of shows I’m sad I missed.

[Nancy Kenny]
Oh, you should just come down to Halifax. Sure. I’ll just fly down in January.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. Yeah.

[Nancy Kenny]
This is the best time to visit Halifax.

[Phil Rickaby]
Of course. Of course. Everybody knows that the time to go to Halifax is in January.

I actually want to take a moment to talk about you and your theatre journey. How did you first become interested in theatre? And how did you know that it was something that was going to be your thing?

[Nancy Kenny]
Wow, that’s a great question. I think, well, when I was a kid, I was always trotted out like for public speaking and storytelling. Like I was I was told like, oh, you have a good public speaking, but like my my mom for a while, like one to encourage me to go into like journalism, like broadcasting, like that kind of thing.

But it wasn’t until I was in high school. I was in French. I went to a French high school.

So I was in French class and we had a module on drama. And so the teacher like handed out parts to, you know, for people to read the play in the class. And I can’t even remember what that play was, but to read out parts.

And I remember at the end of that class, he came up to me and he said, you know, you’re really good at this. You should you should consider acting. And we didn’t have a drama club at my school or anything like that.

We didn’t have drama programs, nothing. And so a group of us just got together and we picked a play. And I remember this like this was Antigone, the genre version.

And I like auditioned and I didn’t I didn’t I think I was in the chorus. Yeah, I got a part in the chorus. And I asked to like assistant direct it.

And we had only two two boys auditioned. And of course, they got put one got put as like the king, like the main role. And the other one got to be the love interest.

Those were the two boys and everyone else’s girls in the play. And the boy who was playing the king never learned. He was only there because his buddy wanted to do it like that.

That was the reason he was there. He never learned his lines. He like wasn’t very into it.

There’s all this kind of stuff. And finally, like the, the director and the because we got a teacher on board. And the the lead actress was playing Antigone.

They were like, we can’t have him do it. They’re like, you’ve been to all the rehearsals, like, you know, the show, can you do that part? And so I played the king.

And I remember the first day I like read with the girl playing Antigone. And she was she was just like, Oh, my God, it feels so good to like, have someone in church to interact with. And and the guy still stayed.

He played a no line part. He played the little page. But we took it to like a theatre festival in New Brunswick.

And we won a and like, it was it was really great. And then the next year, same group, we decided to do The Diary of Anne Frank. And I got cast as Anne Frank and went to that drama festival again and won some awards.

And the funny thing is, though, we had to create like we created that drama club, we had to find a teacher, we had to like do all of those things. And and what’s interesting is I realized a couple years ago, when I looked back on that was that it was kind of like fringe. Like, you know, like, like, I still have been like making my own stuff.

Even back then in high school, because like, no one is like, giving us the room or the space to do it. So I guess that’s a roundabout way of saying that’s how I got into it. And I loved it so much.

Like I wanted to study it. And I want you know, but but I came from a town where like, that’s just not something that people do, you know, like you theatre acting, it’s just, no one has a job in that. So it was actually really, really difficult for the longest time because due to a lack of support in those areas.

Did you go to theatre school, I went to the University of Ottawa, and I did their theatre program there. So I have a BA in theatre, but it wasn’t an acting program by any means. But it was like a general program where I mean, I think they have now now they may have I know they have directing programs, I think they may have an acting conservatory there now.

But at the time, there wasn’t but there was like a general program. So you you got to do some acting, you got to do tech stuff, you know, there’s a lot of theatre history as well. So that’s, that’s how I learned more about that stuff.

[Phil Rickaby]
And you I mean, you’ve, you’ve lived in in in Ottawa, Toronto, Halifax, how long were you in Toronto for?

[Nancy Kenny]
I was there twice. So a total of almost like I would say maybe eight years, something like that. So I like kind of like, three, four years here, and then four or five years there.

So it was after I did roller derby in 2011. I think I was there from like 2012 to like 2014 ish. And then I went back in like 2017 to 2021.

[Phil Rickaby]
Did you decide to go to Halifax because of the availability of work? Did you feel like Halifax is more home? Like what?

What is out Halifax?

[Nancy Kenny]
You know, I was feeling I had been feeling pulled back to the New York Times for a while, you know, I’d had gotten some like, work stuff out here. My family is in New Brunswick, so it’s a little bit closer. But I didn’t want to go home because like, you know, you’re told like Toronto is the place.

You know, if you want to, to do the art, like, you kind of have to be in one of like the big centers. But I found Toronto really hard, like, especially the last time I was there. I found it very, very hard to get my foot in the door.

Like it. And, and then it was just the refrain here. And then the pandemic happens.

And all the theatres closed. And so it was already difficult to try and like, meet people and get known and build community. And I came out here actually, because my ex wanted to go back to school.

So that was the thing, even though I was feeling pulled out here, I wasn’t making the move. But because of the pandemic, there was the whole Atlantic bubble thing going on here. My ex wanted to go back to school here.

So we moved here. And it was like night and day, like, so easy to build community out here. Like, this is the kind of place where, like, I got here and I was like, okay, who is doing stuff that is cool or that I enjoy, whether it be in theatre or in film?

Who are the people doing stuff? And you can just email them and be like, hey, or send them like a Facebook message or whatever and be like, hey, can I do you want to go for a coffee? I’d love to, like, talk to you about your practice.

I’d love to get to know you. And it happens. Like, I don’t know who’s in charge of like cam stage right now.

But I doubt I can send them an email and be like, can we go for a coffee and like, just chat or Mirvish or whatever, you know, like, it was it’s just so night and day. And it’s so easy like to, if you start going to events here, you just get to know people and you, like, I volunteer, like, I joined Theatre Nova Scotia. I joined Screen Nova Scotia.

I became a counselor for Actor Maritimes, you know, it was, it’s just really easy to get involved. And with the credits that I already had, you know, the skill set that I already had, it like made it easier to get my foot in the door in places that I normally wouldn’t. Like, I have a TV film resume that I wouldn’t have because I wasn’t able to get into those doors in Toronto.

[Phil Rickaby]
I think that more and more the myth of if you’re going to do this, you have to be in Toronto is sort of breaking down because there are I mean, Toronto, of course, there’s more theatres, but there’s also more actors, there’s more people. And I think that I do think that Toronto silos itself quite a bit. There’s, it’s a very cliquey city, even in the indie scene, it’s very cliquey.

And I think that when we, when Toronto talks about the theatre community, it’s sort of like a, which one? There’s a thousand different theatre communities, and none of them talk to each other. So I can certainly see the benefit of like going to a town or a city where the scene is a little bit smaller, which sort of presents more opportunities.

[Nancy Kenny]
It does. But what I will say is that then you do get to a point, which is where I feel I’m at now, where it’s like, well, what’s next? You know, like, the dream was like Neptune, to get to do like a Neptune main stage.

And I’m going to get to do that in January, February. But then it’s like, what else? You know, like, there’s some regional theatres, like there’s like smaller rural theatres, but I, I’m not at a place where like, I want to do outdoor theatre right now, which is what a lot of a lot of the theatre is.

And I can’t be cast in every show at the Neptune. And so then it’s like, well, then what? And yeah, I can self sometimes I can self tape for shows that are happening in other locations.

But a lot of times now, especially show even shows in Toronto or anything, they don’t they don’t want self tapes anymore. They want you know, they want people to come in and, and that’s totally great. I’m much preferred being in a room than doing a self tape.

But also when it comes to like the TV stuff here, it’s like, okay, well, I’ve been on from so now I’ve been used. I can’t necessarily I mean, I’m still there. But like, they could bring me back.

But that’s not a guarantee. And I can’t audition for a different role or anything like that. So then it’s like, well, what’s, what’s next?

What do I do next? And so that’s kind of where I’m at right now, where it’s like, I love being here so much. I love the city.

I love the community. I love my apartment. But I do wonder, I’m like, what do I do now?

You know, what’s the next thing for me? Some of it is like doing my own work, which I’ve always done. But you know, I think I’m at this point where I’m like, what do I want?

You know? And do I have to go somewhere else to get that?

[Phil Rickaby]
I think that is probably a question that most people get to in their career. And everybody has to find their own answer to that. Let’s, let’s talk about, let’s move away from theatre for a second, because I do want to talk about something that’s tangentially theatre, but on The Fringe, the documentary, how you were the producer on that, executive producer, sorry.

How did that come about? And how did you decide it was something you wanted to be part of?

[Nancy Kenny]
So I had gotten, so Fringe Festivals, I’m going to assume most people know what a Fringe Festival is, who’s listening to this podcast. But there’s the Canadian Association of Fringe Festivals, and they have a lottery that happens every year, where if you get into that lottery, you get into all the festivals that you’ve applied for. Because typically, you have to apply to each city individually.

But this is one where like, if you apply for this lottery, and you say, I want to do these six, seven cities, and they pick your name, you get, you’re in those, those festivals. And I won it. And I was going to do roller derby.

And because I was going to go across the country, a person I was seeing at the time said, Hey, you know what people have always talked about, there should be a documentary about what it’s like doing fringe. Since you’re, you’re going across the country, you should do that. And I was like, having no knowledge, no experience, nothing, just sheer positivity of like, yeah, I can probably do that.

And that’s how I got involved in that. And so I found someone to shoot it. I was put in touch with a recent grad from a film school out in BC, who is familiar with fringe.

And we met over Skype at the time. And we got along really, really well. And I didn’t even know if she was good at filming or anything.

But we just got along so well, which is so important. If you’re doing a four month, if you’re being on the road for four months with someone, and then found someone to direct it. So that that person was Natalie Watson.

And then Corey Tibbert is the director. Corey was someone I knew from Ottawa, who is an at the time an emerging filmmaker, and also a fringe artist. And so it was just the three of us.

And I did a bunch of fundraising, I got a car sponsored. I honestly don’t know how I made all of this happen. But the thing that I quickly realized was, once we finished the tour, and we had filmed everything, and I had raised money to like, do the tour and pay for these people to be there and pay for the equipment.

I knew nothing about post production. Because I was like, well, theatre, you finish, you close the show, and you’re done, you know, and here was like, Oh, you you finish and now you have to go do this whole other part of it. And, and that was, that’s, that’s the thing that took the longest.

Because again, this is so stupid. It comes back to money every time, like just didn’t have the money to do it. And we were all living in different cities.

At this point, we were like all across the country. And so like being able to meet and like work on this together. And it just it just it took a long time.

So I toured, we toured that in, we recorded in 2014. So I was performing Roller Derby Saved My Soul at various fringes across the country and producing this documentary. And, and then we didn’t premiere it until 2022.

[Phil Rickaby]
That was when we premiered it.

[Nancy Kenny]
Because again, and then the pandemic happened.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, yeah. As far as when you’re filming the documentary and performing your show, which took up most of your time?

[Nancy Kenny]
Producing the documentary?

[Phil Rickaby]
Oh, really?

[Nancy Kenny]
Well, because the show I already had the show, like the show was like, good to go, you know, like, I’d been doing it since 2011. At that point, I had merch already set up, I knew the show really well, I had all the promo stuff that would just need to be tweaked for whatever city I was going to, like the promo materials were there, all of that stuff was, was there. But and then the documentary, I fortunately though, because I put it in the hands of Corey and Natalie, like they handled the interviews and all of that kind of stuff, the story, everything that was there.

I handled though, like contracts and money and travel and logistics and like, all of those things. And that, that was a lot I did. I did hire I remember I had like, there was a government program, I was able to hire like recent students to like, help with a lot of logistic stuff.

But it was all it was, that was a lot of work to do get permissions, are we allowed to film here? Can we, you know, all of all of that kind of stuff, getting people on board to buy in finding the people to that we want to talk to all, all of that. But I mean, in the end, though, I think it was a very fit, like very, like even like both jobs were equally as demanding as the other.

[Phil Rickaby]
I can only imagine how exhausted you must have been at the end of that. Knowing how exhausted somebody is at the end of just performing a fringe festival, and then how exhausted at the end of performing at several fringe festivals. And then to do that and produce a documentary.

Yeah, I don’t know how you had the energy to do anything after that.

[Nancy Kenny]
I didn’t. That’s the thing. Also, during that time, I was drinking quite heavily.

And I, I remember being in Vancouver, which is like the end of the festival of the tour, being in Vancouver, I was selling out roller derby was selling out like I was doing really well. I’m producing this documentary, then on the road, and it’s been and for the most part was beautiful experience, like really beautiful experience. And I remember like being in a bathroom on Granville Island, like just crying my eyes out, because I was just so depressed.

And like, a lot of it was exhaustion. It was like, I was just like, why am I not happy right now? And I’m just sobbing in the bathroom.

And yeah, a lot of it was because I was so, so exhausted. And that’s another reason why after like, it took some time for us to get to post production. Because like, we were so tired after that.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, I have no doubt. Would you ever do something like that again?

[Nancy Kenny]
So maybe I’m gonna say maybe, because here’s the thing, because it took so long after like to get everything done and you know, to finish and premiere and we got a beautiful premiere in Edmonton at the Northwest Fest, which is like Canada’s longest running documentary film festival. Every step of the way, there’s lots of steps where I wanted to stop, where I was like, we don’t have a finished cut of the film. Or like, because we didn’t use separate mics, like sound quality wasn’t great in certain things.

And like, you know, all these things that I didn’t know. Or I can’t get someone to help with this, or I can’t find the right, you know, or this is going to cost too much money to do like, I don’t know, color correction or something like that. There were so many moments where I was like, maybe just stop.

And then I was like, so many people donated money on this project, I need to finish it. And it took, again, it took about took eight years, like to get that done. And there was many times where I was like, if you had told me who, when like someone suggested it, and I went, okay, that it was going to take eight years to get it done, I would have said no.

I would have absolutely said no at that time. That was pure ignorance is bliss. Like, that’s the only reason it got it got done.

But I’m so proud of it. I’m so happy it got done. It was such an accomplishment for us to do.

And then like, we even won an award, a documentary award afterwards, which was really exciting. And so now that I’ve had the rest from it, and I’ve been like, separate from it for a few years. If I had to do something like that again, that’s why I say maybe, but in the middle of it, I was like, I will never do that.

[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, yeah. Now you are in a film premiering at the Toronto International Film Festival. Tell me about tell me about that film.

[Nancy Kenny]
Yeah, it’s called Skidikamushkadi. It’s at the place of ghosts. It’s written and directed by Breton Hammond, who is brilliant.

They, they did the film Wildhood, which was like a festival darling a couple years ago and won a whole bunch of awards. And I, I’m just so in love with this project. It’s an indigenous film.

It’s about two brothers who I mean, it’s, it’s a it’s a kind of ghost story thriller. So these two brothers are like, chased by this creature, and they have to go back to their home and go into these woods to kind of figure out what is happening. But the woods are magical.

And so they run into people from different time periods. And I play an Akkadian woman in the 1700s when the British were deporting the Akkadians, which is just like a dream role. I get to have a musket.

It was lovely. But I it the whole thing is also like an allegory for trauma. So it’s like one of those kind of films where it’s such an entertaining story with such a beautiful message at the end.

I have not seen it yet. So I’m also saying all these things I could possibly be taught it could be like completely changed. And I’m like talking out of my ass.

But it was one of those scripts where like I read through the whole script. And I just wept at the end because it was so beautiful. And I’m so excited because I’ve never been in anything that’s like going to be a TIFF.

I’ve actually never even been to TIFF before. I’m hoping I get to attend. We’re still trying to I’m still trying to figure some stuff out.

But it’s like it’s so, so exciting. Anyone who knows film when I tell them I’m like, well, I’m going to move it to they get so excited.

[Phil Rickaby]
I mean, I think as somebody who lives here, I think I don’t grasp how important TIFF is, because I’ve heard that people who were in the industry, whether they’re in the hall in the States or elsewhere, their favorite festival is TIFF. So it’s hard. It’s hard for me to grasp that.

[Nancy Kenny]
It’s also a festival that’s like really hard to get into. Like, I, I tried with on the fringe, actually, I didn’t get in. And I had a I have a short film that I made, and I didn’t even try to apply to TIFF, because they get so many submissions.

I was like, this is also my first short film. You know, I just didn’t even bother applying because the problem is like it’s also a lot of money to apply to all these different festivals. I feel like these are just the two things I’m talking about.

It’s like the pandemic and a lack of money.

[Phil Rickaby]
You know, I think I actually think that we don’t acknowledge the lack of money in this industry often enough. I think sometimes we like to pretend that the money is just there. And so yeah, we have to talk about.

Yeah, we have to talk about the fact that the money isn’t there and that everything costs a lot of money. Yeah. You know, as we’re drawing to a close, you have the reading of your play.

You have your appearance at in Mad Mads at the Neptune Theatre. You’ve got TIFF coming up.

[Nancy Kenny]
Wow, you make it sound so exciting.

[Phil Rickaby]
I know it is. But it is exciting.

[Nancy Kenny]
Yeah, it is. But like sometimes you sit around and you’re like, I haven’t done anything, you know?

[Phil Rickaby]
Well, it’s good to be reminded of all the things that are coming up after that whirlwind. Do you yet know what’s what’s what’s on the horizon for you?

[Nancy Kenny]
Oh, no, no, not at all. In fact, like most of the summer was pretty empty for me. Like the last thing I did was in May is a play I did in May and I haven’t had anything going on until now with like Fringe coming up.

And even right now, like Fringe and TIFF is done, which is just at the end of August, beginning of September. I have nothing until December, which is when we start rehearsals for Mad Mads, end of December. And so it’s like, I don’t know what I’m going to do.

I don’t, you know, I had a really good year last year where I had a pretty steady flow of work for about a year and a bit, where for the first time, the first time in like all my years of being in the arts, I’d say maybe like 95 percent of my income came through the arts. And that was amazing and wonderful. Like I was booking roles and plays and writing, getting paid to write.

And then it just stopped and it got, you know, it got very scary because then you start to wonder, like, oh, do I like do I have to get some kind of day job right now to like I I don’t I don’t know, but you need to be available so that you can like work. And it’s yeah. All that to say, I don’t know.

I don’t know what I’m doing for September to December. And I don’t know what’s going to happen after Mad Mads in February. And that’s what I was talking about earlier.

I’m like, I don’t know. Do I do I move? Do I go to another city?

Do I at the moment? I am searching for an agent in either Toronto or Montreal to like maybe open some doors over there. There’s lots of self taping happening, so I’m hoping.

But then there’s another issue that comes up is that a lot of projects you need to be like an Ontario taxpayer or Quebec taxpayer because they get tax credits on the project. So, you know, so there’s there’s all of these things that are out of our control as actors, which makes it so hard and so scary at the same time. The only thing that like kind of helps me through is that I’m at this point in my life where I’m actually confident in my skills, where I’m like, OK, I know it’s not my skills, you know, because on top of that, on top of like when you’re not getting work, it’s really easy to be like, it’s me.

I must just suck then, you know, like no one wants to work with me or whatever it is that the dark thoughts are at that moment of the day. But the now and I don’t know if it’s an age thing or whatever, or just having done it enough to have gone through a lot of different waves, there’s I know that that’s not the problem. The industry is the problem.

[Phil Rickaby]
Well, I mean, I think that at a certain point, if you had enough experience, you know more about why why choices are made, like why? Because sometimes it’s not even about the skill, why a person is cast. It’s not even about it’s not even it’s not about anything you’re aware of.

It’s the whims of the system or there’s so many factors. So at least you would know with experience that it doesn’t make it any easier. No, of course it doesn’t make it any easier.

It’s never easy. And that’s, I think, one of the reasons why people who stick out this industry have patience and really thick skins, because you have to.

[Nancy Kenny]
I’m like so fucking sensitive. I have no patience and I cry at the drop of a hat to me. Like for me, the only thing that’s carrying me through is that I’m like, but you’re a good actor.

You’re a good writer. That that’s the only thing that for me I can bank on, because everything else, even when they’re like, yeah, it’s it’s, you know, we just wanted someone taller or we, you know, even if I knew all of those things, it would still hurt. You know, I’m I’m I’m way too like this and the sensitivity that makes me a good actor and writer also makes it just horrible to be in this industry.

[Phil Rickaby]
Well, I mean, that’s the I mean, that is kind of the thing. Access access your emotions at the top of the hat, but also don’t take it personally. Yeah, it’s so that that’s the coin right there.

How do you how do you do? You can’t do both. Well, Nancy Kenny, thank you so much for joining me.

It’s great to talk to you again after so long. I really appreciate it.

[Nancy Kenny]
Thanks for having me.