Aisling Murphy
This week on Stageworthy, host Phil Rickaby welcomes Aisling Murphy, theatre reporter for the Globe and Mail. In a wide-ranging and engaging conversation, Aisling shares the journey from musical theatre student to one of Canada’s leading theatre critics. They discuss her early roots in Baltimore, her move to Canada, and how a moment of personal upheaval redirected her path from performing to criticism. Now six months into her role at the Globe, Aisling offers sharp insights into the world of Canadian theatre and the delicate balance of being both a critic and a supporter of the art form.
This episode explores:
- Aisling’s transition from performer to theatre critic
- Her journey from Ottawa to Toronto, and eventually to the Globe and Mail
- The challenges of reviewing peers and staying impartial
- Differences between Canadian and American theatre ecosystems
- The unique opportunities and responsibilities of being a national critic
- Her thoughts on critical integrity, honesty, and theatre as public record
- The importance of documenting Canadian theatre for the future
Guest:
🖋️ Aisling Murphy
Aisling (“ash-ling”) Murphy is the theatre reporter for The Globe and Mail. A native of Baltimore, Maryland, she was the senior editor of Intermission Magazine from 2021-2025 and during that time also worked as a staff writer at the Toronto Star and CP24/CTV News Toronto. As a freelance culture writer, she wrote for publications including the New York Times, CBC Arts, the Stratford Beacon-Herald and her hometown paper, the Baltimore Sun. She is an occasional playwright and frequent Swiftie. She lives in Toronto with her husband and two cats.
Connect with Aisling:
The Globe and Mail: https://www.theglobeandmail.com/authors/aisling-murphy/
📸 Instagram: @aisling.murph
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Transcript
[Phil Rickaby]
Hello, welcome to Stageworthy. I’m Phil Rickaby, the host and producer of this podcast. If you’re listening for the first time, welcome.
This is Stageworthy. It is a podcast about Canadian theatre and the people who make it. Uh, every week I talk to a theatre maker from somewhere in Canada and I talk to them about theatre, about their theatre journey, about who they are.
And it, most of the times I sometimes, sometimes I talk to people whose names you might know, but a lot of times I talk to people who I think you should know, people who haven’t broken big, who aren’t household names, but honestly, people that you should know if you’re, if you’re watching on YouTube, uh, make sure that you like this episode, leave a comment and tell me what you liked about this episode and subscribe.
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Uh, in a minute, I’m going to get to talking about today’s guest. Who is Aisling Murphy, the Globe and Mail’s theatre critic. But first I want to talk about Patreon because I can’t do this podcast without the patrons who’ve chosen to back me on Patreon.
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Right now we’re just covering the cost of producing the podcast. And I’ve had to eliminate having a transcript for the show because the tools that I was using are too unreliable and require so much work to fix the audio that it’s just too much when I’m not getting paid for the time, uh, to, to, for any of this. So there are tools that I could use that would, that would give me a more accurate transcript, but those are paid tools and I can’t just add another paid tool unless I have the backing to do it.
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So if you want to take part in making this podcast, uh, become a patron, it just costs $7 Canadian a month. And, uh, you’ll be helping me to make this podcast. And as the Patreon grows, the more patrons we get, the more I can offer to the patrons.
So back the podcast, help me make this show. And, uh, I will, I will be forever grateful. Now onto today’s guest, Ashley Murphy is the theatre reporter for the Globe and Mail, a native of Baltimore, Maryland, who is a transplant to Canada.
She’s been the senior editor of intermission magazine and has written as a staff writer for the Toronto star has done freelance culture writing for the New York times, CBC arts all over the place. And. When long-time Globe and Mail theatre reporter, Kelly Nesterov said that he was stepping down.
I think we all wondered who was going to fill those shoes. He’d been the theatre reporter at the Globe for so long. And Aisling is such a, an insightful reviewer.
And although Kelly has left some big shoes to fill, Aisling is the one who can fill them. So I really enjoyed this conversation. I hope you do too.
And now here is my conversation with the Globe and Mail theatre reporter, Aisling Murphy. Aisling Murphy, thank you so much for joining me. I’ve been looking forward to this conversation and I wanted to talk to you for a while.
Probably, I think since you started reviewing for intermission, but now you are the theatre reporter for the Globe and Mail, Canada’s newspaper. And one of the things that I’m very curious about is how, how someone from Baltimore, Maryland finds their way to go to theatre school, finds their way to Toronto, eventually starts reviewing and then finds their way to the Globe and Mail. What is that story?
How did you get from there to here?
[Aisling Murphy]
So this is a whole thing. I was very much a musical theatre kid. I feel like I’ve been kind of reconnecting with that as an adult as well.
But anyway, I was super into musical theatre and in high school, I really wanted to become fluent in French. And so the University of Ottawa had a program for international students where if you took, I think the, I think it was, if you took 60% of your courses in French, like bilingually, you could pay it a provincial tuition, which was so, so, so much cheaper than any options I had in Maryland. I didn’t really like Maryland all that much.
So I was like, great, let’s move to Canada. That sounds good. And that was in 2016.
So obviously this was before Trump was elected. So like, I didn’t necessarily move to Canada because of that, but the timing very much worked out, I would say. Yeah, moved to Ottawa, realized there wasn’t as much of a musical theatre scene there as maybe I had hoped.
So I was, you know, taking voice lessons and doing Kiwanis Festival and trying as hard as I could to sort of figure out what the musical theatre niche could be for me. And then 2019 happened and it was a whole situation where just, oh, I had a really bad week, basically. I had some like significant dental surgery and there was a breakup that happened and my grandfather died.
And all of those three things happened within like a week of each other. And I was like, okay, maybe, maybe my mental health is not awesome right now. And as a result of that, maybe I’m just going to pivot my entire life plan.
And one of my professors, Yana Mirzan at the University of Ottawa was like, hey, you don’t have teeth. So maybe acting could like go on a break for a while. And I was like, yes, absolutely.
But then also she, you know, very fortunately said, hey, you should try out theatre criticism. I think you’re a good writer and maybe this is something you’d like to do. And I was like, yeah, absolutely.
I want to see musicals for free. Um, and that turned into a whole, a whole career kind of by accident. So I started reviewing in Ottawa for a website called Capital Critic Circle, which I think kind of still exists.
I hope they do. Um, it was a little touch and go during the pandemic, but I wrote for Capital Critic Circle for a while. Pandemic, don’t know if it reached Toronto, but like, again, whole thing.
Um, that again, sort of left me in a place of like, oh shit, now what do I do? Um, and then I don’t know, it just, it just sort of kept snowballing in that way where stuff just kept on happening. And then I’d, you know, turn around and be like, oh, my life is different now.
Um, so that sort of looked like, uh, intermission reaching out to me. It was a Twitter DM, literally just a, hey, do you want to work for intermission, um, for not that much money a month, uh, doing, uh, just basic editing. And I was like, absolutely.
Yes, that sounds great. And I did that remotely for a little while. Um, wound up moving to Toronto for grad school, technically, but also that was mostly for intermission in my head.
I was like, no, no, I need to be where the theatre is. And of course at the time there was no theatre, so that was very aspirational. But, um, and yeah, I got incredibly lucky to be asked to do a freelance story for the Toronto Star and the rest is kind of history.
I don’t, I don’t want to bore people with, you know, everything, but yeah. Retrospectively, it’s a pretty straight line from like really liking musical theatre to finding the playwright Sarah Kane as well was a big part of it. But then also, you know, after my first couple of freelance stories for the Toronto Star, I just got really lucky in being in the right place at the right time and getting to do lots of like internships and, uh, sort of entry level, uh, reporter jobs and it, it all just kind of spiraled from there.
[Phil Rickaby]
I’m curious about how you felt reviewing your first show for me as somebody who I used to, you know, somebody who still makes theatre and, and, and, um, you know, has this podcast I’ve avoided reviewing. I did it one year, many years ago for fringe and I never did it again because I just felt as somebody who made theatre, that it was the wrong thing for me to be doing. Did you ever, as somebody who came from like you were a theatre kid and now here you are giving your criticism about a show, did you ever, did you feel awkward?
Did you feel weird about doing that?
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah, this comes up about once a week. Yes, absolutely. I love my job so much, but I, and I also feel like I come at it from a fairly unique perspective.
Just given, you know, I went to theatre school, I have acting training and directing training and playwriting training and all these things. So I really, I try and come at work from the perspective of knowing that this industry is really, really hard and, and making things is really hard. Um, but yeah, it’s often super awkward and you’re always kind of balancing like, Hey, have I been for like too many drinks with that person to be able to be impartial, uh, for this show or whatever?
I remember my first show. Absolutely. There was an acquaintance of mine in it and the show was really bad.
And I remember being like, Oh my God, this is what theatre criticism is like trying to balance this forever. And the answer is sort of, yes, but it does get easier. I have found.
[Phil Rickaby]
That’s a, that’s an interesting question because I remember years ago, I wondered how, uh, I would see John Kaplan around the late great John Kaplan. I would see him around all the time. He’s out for drinks with actors, like hanging out with people all the time.
And I wondered how he could and how he balanced his social life as, as, as being social with actors, um, with like potentially giving them a bad review. And then I juxtapose that with like Glenn Subi, who just doesn’t get social with actors. He’s like in, sees the show, gets out, doesn’t do any of the other stuff.
Um, I can imagine that when you do know somebody in the show, it’s, it’s a little awkward to, um, how, how do you find that balance if you have to give like a critique?
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah. I mean, certainly in the past, I’d say like past year, past two years, I’ve also, you know, I’ve felt my social circles maybe shift not because of this, but you know, you do reach a certain point with theatre criticism where if all of your friends are people who make theatre, there’s, there will be hurt feelings and there will be sort of awkward conversations. So I’ve sort of found that it’s maybe best for me to, you know, I, I love the folks that I went to theatre school with and grad school with them and all these things, but I, you know, it’s, it’s a tricky, it’s a tricky balance.
And I think my, my biggest MO when reviewing is kind of always don’t be an asshole, even if you’re doing, even if you have to give a negative review or critique, I find that there’s a way to couch it in a way that’s productive rather than just tearing people down, regardless of if you’re friends with them. I think that’s just good. Criticism.
[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. I can remember years ago, uh, encountering somebody who, uh, if you’re, I don’t know if you remember, you probably don’t remember I magazine that was like for a while the media sponsor for fringe and they would bring on people from all everywhere, like every people who’d never reviewed before they were like, throw them out into the lines. And occasionally you would encounter somebody who was like, I love giving bad reviews.
It’s my favorite thing to do. And you’d be like, I don’t want you anywhere near a show that I’m doing.
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah. I mean, I don’t know. I sometimes a pan I think is warranted.
I, I like, I find I don’t give too many pans. I really, I don’t think that they’re deserved as much as, as maybe some markets might think that they are, but like, I dunno, I find maybe one or two a year where it’s like, okay, you know, here’s a place where this show had all the money in the world and it was still bad. Like sometimes I think there can be room for that sort of like, you know, maybe there’s a pun or something in there, but for the most part, no, I hate giving negative reviews.
It’s not, it’s not, yeah, I don’t, I, I go to theatre wanting it to be good. You know, I, I try and think of myself as just another audience member in that way where it’s like, no, I also want it to be good. I don’t relish saying like, Hey, I couldn’t hear you or Hey, the pacing was bad.
Um, I, yeah, I like theatre and I would like to keep enjoying it.
[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. I can imagine like, if you, if you wanted the show to be bad, why would you even bother? Like, don’t even go.
[Aisling Murphy]
That this is, this is the thing, right. But you know, different, different people approach it in different ways. So yeah, that’s, that’s just my approach.
I would say.
[Phil Rickaby]
Um, I’m curious about as somebody who, who came from, you know, the U S from Maryland, um, when you’re looking at Canadian theatre, which is a very different animal in many different respects from the theatre in the U S. Um, and I don’t, again, I know that you loved musical theatre as a, as a younger person, and it was your, what you were going for, um, what you wanted to do. Is there anything that you noticed in particular about the difference between, um, the theatre that’s produced in Canada and the theatre that’s produced in the U S.
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, just landscape wise, there is much more public funding in Canada. Um, I don’t necessarily know if that’s a good thing or a bad thing.
I, you know, and that said, I don’t think there’s enough public funding for theatre in Canada. Um, but the result of that is I do find that broadly speaking, Canadian theatre tends to pretty directly reflect Canada more often than not, which is really cool when that happens. And I think that that’s, you know, a pretty direct way to engage an audience in ways that we don’t necessarily see as much in the U S or maybe I didn’t see as much when I lived in the U S and when I’ve gone back as an adult.
Um, and the other thing as well is I, again, love a musical. And I find that Canada as a, as a landscape, as a ecology, there’s maybe less room for really strong productions of existing musicals that already are in the canon. So I find, um, and this is true for not musicals as well, but you find that there’s lots of world premieres, lots of workshops, lots of really interesting stuff happening, but once, you know, once a show has opened and maybe gotten a few good reviews and people seem to like it, it doesn’t necessarily have a life after that first production.
Um, so I would love to see more Canadian, uh, regional theatres doing, uh, like beautiful scars and, and some of these amazing new musicals that have come out in the past couple of years. Um, but either, uh, theatres are maybe a little concerned about if there’s audience interest, if, if they can make money on shows and that’s fair, but it, you know, it’s, I sometimes wonder what, what else is in that sort of vacuum of shows that had their world premiere and then never got done again, that maybe we could still mine for season planning.
[Phil Rickaby]
I think that’s one of the greatest, for one everybody word tragedies of Canadian theatre is that there are so many great shows that get one production and then we never hear from them again. Now there are some that are, are, are, you know, uh, uh, they go buck against that. Kim’s convenience, for example, not only ran for ages at salt pepper, had other productions as well, but it’s so rare to see a show that has a life after its initial production.
And I, again, it’s one of the things that I want to be asking. I’m there’s an episode I want to do, which is like that, where we talk to people about that, because I think that it’s the thing that stands in the way of Canadian theatre and its future. Like we need to be able to out of those productions.
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah. I think I, I, uh, I’m inclined to agree. Um, and you know, shows like Kim’s convenience and come from away.
It’s amazing that these shows have come to be so well known on the global stage, but I do also sometimes wonder if maybe those shows in particular have almost pigeonholed Canadian theatre, uh, for a global audience in a way where it’s like, Oh, you know, if, uh, investors and producers outside of Canada only know about those two shows, there’s so much more that Canadian artists, writers, composers, directors can do beyond that.
And I’m, I’m interested in seeing more of that get picked up either down South or in the UK or Ireland or Australia, or all these other markets that I think really could support more Canadian work if, uh, more people knew about it.
[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. Years ago, um, Howard Sherman, who was at the time the head of the American theatre wing had a whole article called what’s wrong with Canadian plays and how there was a pipeline for shows that were from the UK to be produced in the U S that there were shows from the U S and the UK being produced in Canada, but it didn’t go the other way. And so he was like asking the question why there was ever a great answer for that.
And it’s still the same now, even, even, you know, considering that, like we’re in this post pandemic world where everybody says that the audiences aren’t coming back and the theatres are, are not doing as well. The commercial, not the non-commercial theatres, I think is where that, that complaint largely sits. Now as somebody who’s been seeing a lot of theatre, I mean, of course, reviewers sometimes I think maybe have a skewed vision because you’re going on like opening night where they’ve probably, they have largely papered the house.
So it seems full, but, and that sort of like inflates what, what you might see. But are you, do you, do you have this sense that, that, that, that the outside of the commercial theatres that the audiences have not quite come back?
[Aisling Murphy]
It’s interesting. I’m always surprised by what audiences sort of flock to in numbers that weren’t necessarily my picks or, or my favorites. I mean, one that comes to mind, and I have changed my tune on this show a little bit, cause I did go back to see it again, but I remember Natasha Pierre and the Great Comet of 1812 when it first opened at Crows, of course, it was this amazing co-production between Crows and musical stage, beautiful, wonderful.
At the time I did not love it. I thought that the direction was a little chaotic. There was a lot of like running in circles when I wanted, you know, some of the performers just to stand still.
Oh my God. And I remember leaving being like, yeah, you know, it’s pretty good. Like I’m excited to see that we have these, you know, heavy hitter regional theatres doing work like this, but I don’t necessarily know if this translates to, you know, commercial success or if audiences will love this, this feels like very chaotic to my eye.
And then of course I was aggressively wrong. And I, it’s, I always kind of laugh when that happens. It’s, it’s cause you never know, right?
Like, like, and a lot of ways I find that criticism can be such a crapshoot. Like that’s, that’s my, my thoughts won’t always translate to the greater audience. And that was very much the case with that show, which as we all know, extended, I want to say like 10 million times over the course of last year.
And of course is now heading to Mirvish. I’m excited to see it again. I’m excited to see how yeah, Chris Abraham might tighten it and, and also expand it for this different space and all these things, but no, I remember every time I would see that to expand, I’d be like, what, what do you mean?
I don’t understand how this has broken the like, uh, theatre bubble. And, and that just random people on the street know about this. This is the one, but then I saw it again.
I was like, Oh no, I was wrong the first time. And also it got better over the course of its run.
[Phil Rickaby]
But I was, I was about to ask, I was about to ask if you’d gone back to, to, to have that your opinion revised. It is, I mean, it is at the end of the day, it’s important for everybody to remember that the review is one person’s educated opinion. And so, um, their tastes might not be your tastes, which is just a fact of the way that, that reviewing works.
Um, but it is interesting, I think. And I think maybe one of the things that, that you’re, that you might’ve been seeing is, um, the lack of workshopping, um, because in Canada, we don’t workshop in the same way that they do say in New York, they’ll workshop something for years and, or for many weeks. Right.
Like I remember I was working as an usher at the Ed Mirvish theatre when they were doing about to open Aladdin. And that thing was in previews for like a month and a half to two years, a month and a half to two months of like every day doing the new show, making changes and, and, uh, fascinating to see from the house when they made changes. But, um, that show was a workshop for a long time.
Um, and sometimes I, I, I think we rush the workshop process. Um, and that’s, but that’s, again, as we’re talking about opinions, that’s my opinion, uh, because I’m sure that, that when you went back to come to, to, to, to, uh, uh, Natasha Pierre, it had tightened in a way that it hadn’t been when you first saw it.
[Aisling Murphy]
100%. I, you know, I, I think I was aware at the time as well that they had maybe had not a great tech period. Like I, I, I recall rumors of COVID or something had gone through the cast.
So that might’ve been part of it too. But I mean, it’s also, I think the best part of my job is often when I get to see shows, not on opening night. I really, for exactly the reasons you pointed out, I don’t love opening nights.
I find that they are often not super reflective of the show that later audiences, which most of the audience will be. That’s not necessarily what they’ll see. Right?
So any, anytime I’ve been able to go later in a run and actually review later in a run as well, that’s my favorite thing.
[Phil Rickaby]
I think that is, that is actually the more honest with you because that first audience on opening night is the, the, the free tickets audience, the papered audience, the, the, the friends and family audience, um, that might be more enthusiastic and might react to things in a way that, that the regular audience might not.
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah, no, absolutely. And I, you know, I never, like never want to be overly grumpy, uh, on an opening night of everyone around me is like cheering, hooting, hollering, all, all the things for a show. Often I will feel the same way.
Like I remember seeing something rotten at Stratford on opening night last year and being like, yeah, two standing ovations. I will join them happily. So this deserves them.
But yeah, no, it’s sometimes I find if I’m able to go later in a run and maybe there’s still that reaction. That’s something I can kind of note and be like, Hey, this, that level of energy has sustained through the run. Or I think more often it’s a case of, okay, so, you know, here’s how a room full of not industry friends, pals, whatever react to a piece.
And that’s, that’s interesting in its own right.
[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. Now, I took a little bit of mail, some of the issues of Kelly and Nestor, um, who for a while was one of the only theatre critics, theatre writers at a publication in Canada, um, there for, for, and in Toronto, for example, the Toronto star didn’t have a full-time writer. You mentioned being a freelance writer, uh, for them, but they didn’t have a full-time person covering theatre.
And, um, most of the newspapers in a lot of the newspapers in Toronto didn’t for a long time. But now the star does have a full-time theatre writer, um, that you’ve taken over from Kelly and, and, and become the theatre reporter for the Globe and Mail. Um, is there, does, is there a responsibility to write about Canadian theatre that sort of weighs on the shoulders of being the theatre reporter at, um, and, and being responsible for writing about theatre across Canada rather than just Toronto?
Does that, is there a particular responsibility that sits, uh, on, on you as that reporter?
[Aisling Murphy]
Absolutely. Um, I am aware that cause I’ve been on the job. Uh, oh my gosh, it’s six months today.
I’ve been at the job for six months as of today. Um, and that it’s been maybe more of an adjustment than I had anticipated, but I’ve also been aware that my coverage has certainly skewed Toronto and Ontario centric. That’s something that I, you know, as, as I’m in the role longer, I really want to cover more all over Canada.
I think that that’s deeply important to what the job is and what I was hired to do. And yeah, it’s something that I’m, you know, trying my best to do more and more of as time. Goes on.
[Phil Rickaby]
I mean, it is the thing that, that unlike being a movie reviewer, to be a theatre reviewer, you have to travel to see the theatre in the place that you’re going to. You, there’s no way to do that remotely. So that again, you know, travel being expensive and all that sort of thing, but it must, the thought of, of, of seeing theatre in different places across Canada is, is very exciting to me to be able to experience the, the way that theatre differs in each province.
Is that something, I mean, you mentioned you haven’t really been able to do that yet, or it’s skewed more Toronto, Ontario, but is, is that something you’re particularly looking forward to?
[Aisling Murphy]
100%. Yes. Cause I mean, even in these six months, I, I had been able to cover a few productions and, you know, key players in other markets while I was at intermission.
So this came in handy even last week. I, Forgiveness opened up the Stratford Festival and that’s directed by Stafford Arima, who is the artistic director of Theatre Calgary. I have got to see his production of A Christmas Carol a couple of years ago.
Not even kidding. It’s one of the best things I’ve seen in Canada. I love that production.
They do it every year. If you’re anywhere near Calgary, go see it. It’s awesome.
But you know, knowing that and, and having been to Calgary and, and been able to engage with that community and that theatre and, and that particular artist only made it easier for me to do my job here. So I am so looking forward to being able to see more outside of, outside of where I live.
[Phil Rickaby]
I am, I really make a, I’m making a point of trying to talk to people who are not Toronto artists, because I think that Toronto takes up a lot of air in the Canadian theatre landscape. Um, I mean, it’s, it’s the, we’re the biggest city in Canada, but I do think there’s a lot of air that’s taken up by, by Toronto. That other cities deserve to, to, to, to have their scenes, their theatre scenes as, as highlighted as, as any other.
And of course there are exciting things that are happening there. I still remember that years ago, Kat Sandler had a show that was designed for a theatre in Edmonton. There was actually two plays that happened at the same time, and I have been dying to see this play, but of course it only ever happened at that theatre in Edmonton.
There’s so much that’s going on that we, if we just concentrate on one place, we’re missing out on.
[Aisling Murphy]
Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, Canada is so vast and diverse, not only with the people, but, but even geographically.
And I find that has a huge impact on the theatre that these people are able to make. I, every time I’ve been able to get out of Toronto to go see stuff elsewhere, it’s just been, I feel like I’ve learned so much and it’s been so rewarding for future work. I mean, getting to go to FTI in Montreal was huge because I think two or three of those shows wound up being programmed in Toronto in the following season.
So it’s like, oh, not only have I already had the chance to see this, but I can actually speak pretty intelligently about things like season curation and stuff like that. So no, absolutely. I, I have a few things in work that I don’t think I can talk about yet, but I’m very excited to get out of Toronto.
[Phil Rickaby]
Awesome.
[Aisling Murphy]
Or to see shows outside of Toronto.
[Phil Rickaby]
I understand exactly what you’re saying. We’re not going to, nobody’s going to cancel you for that. Incredible.
We were talking a moment ago, a moment ago about responsibility. And one of the things that I’ve often wondered about being a theatre reviewer is if there is, as the reviewer, a perceived responsibility to be a booster, to not, to, to lift up a show that in another market might not be lifted up quite as much, or if, and not particularly, I’m not saying that you’ve done this, but in general, in theatre reviewing, like, does the responsibility of, of to the Canadian, to Canadian theatre outweigh the responsibility to the artist, if that makes any sense, or sorry, to the audience, if that makes any sense?
[Aisling Murphy]
It’s a tricky question. And my thoughts on this have certainly changed in the past few months as well. Just given that I did come up sort of through theatre school and maybe like, you know, a step into the industry as well.
I feel like when I started reviewing for Intermission, I was more on the side of being a cheerleader than on the side of being more of a kind of robust critic, I would suppose. It’s not to say that the work itself wasn’t robust, but I was trying pretty hard to find as much as I could to celebrate in a piece of work. Nowadays, I mean, the Globe has a really, again, just diverse audience.
And I think that our readership deserves to get as honest a truth as I am able to provide to them. So, you know, I think some shows certainly need that championing and that cheerleading and when it’s deserved, I really love to do it. I mean, getting to review Monks for the Globe and Mail, which this tiny indie show that it’s stupid and wonderful and just maybe one of the best things I’ve ever seen, that was the sort of thing where it’s like, okay, maybe normally this wouldn’t be the sort of show that the Globe would review.
But I think for me and my like evil scheming, I’m just like, wait, maybe if I can review it, maybe this will get programmed more places, which I would really like to happen. So, you know, sometimes I think that that sort of championing is appropriate and warranted and other times maybe it’s not. I really try and take things like company resources and things like that just into account where it’s like, okay, if again, if you’re a company that has all of the money in the world and the thing you make maybe isn’t that great, I don’t necessarily feel a huge responsibility to champion that just because it’s Canadian, you know?
So just it depends. It depends, I would say.
[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, for sure. I mean, I remember years ago I was doing a show at the Hamilton Fringe and at the time there, I mean, again, a lot of the reviewing that gets done at places like the Hamilton Fringe, it’s people seeing shows for free. It’s like, you know, that’s why they’re doing it.
But I found that in a lot of cases the reviewing was overly enthusiastic for some of the shows. Like there were shows that essentially got called, like every show got a great review, which is not possible, right? And not every show is great.
And I often saw people leaving a show feeling like they missed out on something like, oh, I read that this was really, this was this good and it was okay. But it kind of is the audience a disservice to like tell them this is the greatest show in the world and they go and see it and they leave thinking, I guess I just don’t understand theatre.
[Aisling Murphy]
This is the thing, right? Like I, at the end of the day, I want more people to see more theatre. Um, and I don’t think that saying a show is better than it is, is the way to do that.
Um, so I’ve definitely, you know, I, I feel a great sense of responsibility to the Globe and Mail readership and I don’t want to lead them astray. A lot of our readers will disagree with me and that’s fine. Um, but I, I don’t, I don’t think at all in this job I’ve, I’ve approached the show being like, how do I make this sound better than it is so that they sell more tickets?
That’s not something I’m interested in.
[Phil Rickaby]
No. And, and as the reviewer, it’s not your responsibility to sell their tickets for it.
[Aisling Murphy]
No, it’s not.
[Phil Rickaby]
As, as somebody who’s, you know, you’ve spent a little while seeing quite a bit of theatre. I don’t want you to pick favourites as far as shows, because that’s, that would be impossible for, for me to, to, you know, it’s sort of like all the things I’ve seen. What’s your favourite?
Um, almost impossible. Um, but, um, are there things about the Canadian theatre scene or the Canadian theatre world that you’ve seen that you particularly, uh, uh, enjoy? What is it about Canadian theatre that you have loved?
[Aisling Murphy]
Oh, oh, this is such a good question. I mean, I don’t know. I, I do appreciate, um, maybe not individual productions, but when theatre companies are able to constantly, to constantly reinvent how they’re doing their work while also maintaining a really consistent, uh, artistic vision.
Um, I mean, Coalmine, again, full disclosure, I worked at Coalmine for about six months last year. I don’t, I obviously don’t anymore. Um, but I mean, Coalmine, I, ever since I moved to Toronto, I have been so impressed by how not only they’ve been able to revamp their space, but the actual plays that they choose, um, and the ways that they choose to stage them, I’ve always found really inventive and often on a shoestring budget.
And it’s, you know, there’s some of them have worked better than others. I would be the first to admit that. But again, it’s, it’s that sense of play never, never falling away from the work that they’re doing.
I think Crows for the most part is like that too. Um, you know, again, some shows have not been great. I don’t, I don’t think it’s, that’s a particularly surprising take, but I think Crows has been pretty consistent in both presenting new work, interesting work, interesting interpretations of old work, things like that.
So for me, it’s, it’s less about individual productions, but actually being able to discover how different companies do things. And then, you know, if an artist maybe works for that company, but then goes to do something somewhere else, seeing how those artistic sensibilities maybe combine and meld in interesting ways. It’s, it’s very fun.
[Phil Rickaby]
Now, as I mean, as the, uh, the, the wheel of the year turns and the, the, the seasons change, the theatre season specifically change, it must, there are times of year when it’s, it is particularly busy. And, and here we are recording this in the summer as two of the biggest festivals in, in Canada basically have their rolling premieres of like, you know, each show having it’s, it’s, it’s opening night and it’s premiere and, and, and, and opening so that, so that, you know, now that show’s going to play, but there’s more shows to come for each festival in addition to any other theatre that’s, that’s happening in the city. How do you balance all like the, all of those big shows that you’re having to go see and, and still be able to sort of like get the thing written and like, enjoy, you know, cause I’m sure the schedule is pretty packed.
[Aisling Murphy]
I mean, it is. I mean, I, I’m so incredibly lucky now in that that is my job. So for the most part, like the, the hours spent at the theatre, that’s part of my 35 hour work week, which is lovely, you know, cause I, I worked as a breaking news reporter at a TV station for about a year, not even nine months.
And that would be a case of, I would wake up in the morning. I would usually have a 6am shift. So I do breaking news from six to three in the afternoon.
I would maybe get to sleep maybe. And then I would go to the theatre and hopefully write a review that night as well, or, you know, sometime the next day on my lunch break or something. That was not sustainable.
And I’m really glad I don’t have to do that anymore. So the fact that getting to all these shows and writing about them and having that writing, editing, editor time the next day is, it’s, it’s a huge luxury that I don’t take for granted. It’s wonderful.
[Phil Rickaby]
As you’re sort of seeing these shows, does, are there particular shows that you, as the seasons are announced, are there ones that you sort of think, I can’t wait to review that. And once that you’re sort of like, well, I’m going to have to review that. Does that happen at all?
Or is, are you able to like balance the, the excitement?
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah. I mean, I, I love season announcement season because it also, as, as I think most of my colleagues would agree, most of the critics and theatre reporters tend to get them early. So I always feel like I have a bit of a secret, which is just kind of me being goofy, but yeah, I don’t like jukebox musicals.
So, you know, next year of Mirvish season is maybe not super to my taste. It’s not that I’m dreading it. It’s just, it’s not, there are other things in the Mirvish season next year.
I’m stoked to see Telltale Harbor. I am stoked to see Kimberley Akimbo, you know, those are, those are more to my taste and I am super excited to review those, but, you know, in terms of some of the regional company companies, it’s one of the nice things is that when these companies are doing so many world premieres and things, I have no idea what they’re about or how they’ll be. So it really is.
I’m, I’m as sort of blind to that as any audience member would be, which actually makes it easier to do my job. Cause I’m not going in with as many sort of preconceived, like another jukebox musical or another solo show about growing up in Oakville. Like it’s, it’s a lot easier to sort of temper that when I don’t know what I’m seeing.
[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. Yeah. I can imagine.
I mean, listen, as an actor, I’ve performed in the Scottish play far too many times and I don’t relish seeing it. You know, it’s like at a certain point there are plays that you, that, that I personally are like, I know why you’re doing it. I’m tired.
You know?
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah. I don’t know. I feel like I’m, I’m not sick of Shakespeare yet.
I will maybe get there in a couple of years for now. For now it’s fine. It’s not necessarily something I look forward to when it comes up, but like, it’s fine.
It’s okay.
[Phil Rickaby]
I mean, I, listen, I know that there are shows that they kind of have to do because they bring in the student shows, which help, you know, sort of like the matinees get sold out. They have to do certain ones, but I’m always excited when I see like a show that almost never gets performed because those are the ones that are kind of like, Oh, I don’t remember how this ends. Excellent.
You know, it’s, it’s fun.
[Aisling Murphy]
No, absolutely. And like, yeah, getting to see things that I read in theatre school is always really fun. And I mean, this wasn’t, this is maybe a little bit of a digression, but get that hope at Stratford last year.
I had never seen a production of Long Day’s Journey into Night, which that play to like, to be clear is not, I think even calling it an adaptation is maybe not quite it, but it’s about this family in little Jamaica on a very hot day in the middle of summer, all, and all of these family members have different struggles and, and things that they need to work through. And I would say it’s very much in the spirit of Long Day’s Journey into Night, which was one of my favorite plays in theatre school. So getting to see that where I didn’t necessarily know that much about the show before I went and I got there and I’m like, what in the O’Neill?
This is, this is Long Day’s Journey into Night. This is so cool. Yeah.
I don’t, yeah. I, I love unexpected canonical programming. So not necessarily a new work, but not Romeo and Juliet, like something kind of neatly in the middle always gets me intrigued at the very least.
[Phil Rickaby]
Absolutely. Absolutely. I definitely feel that.
I definitely feel that. And it is exciting to, to see shows. Cause again, there are plenty of shows that you read when you’re in theatre school that you almost never get to see, or, and, you know, again, we’re talking about, if we’re talking about Canadian plays, plays that maybe you picked up a copy of and you would love to see it and you, you never will because it will all probably, it may never get another production, but some, there are plays that, that I read when I was at theatre school or after that, I still think about, and I would love to see a production of them.
And I probably will never happen. So they can only exist in my mind.
[Aisling Murphy]
Totally. I mean, I’m, I’m sort of aware of the kind of privilege I have about this as well, but I mean, I didn’t go to theatre school that long ago. And so like when I was in theatre school, we were reading a lot of Hannah Moskovich and Jordan Tannehill and these very contemporary, like still working Canadian playwrights.
So I’ve, I’ve had the opportunity a couple of times to be like, Oh, I, not only did I read this in theatre school, but I’m friends with this person on Facebook and can talk to them about their work as part of my job. Um, which yeah, is, is still just surreal, honestly. And very cool when it happens.
[Phil Rickaby]
I don’t know. I mean, speaking of how that, that could be surreal. Can you, can you think again, you don’t have to use names if you can, but is there a moment where that, that, that’s the reality came was like, Oh my God, I can’t believe this is happening.
Is there one that you can think of in particular?
[Aisling Murphy]
Yes, actually. I worked as an embedded critic on a new play last year. Yes.
Last year. The play was called The Exhale by Lisa Alves. It’s a sapphic, polyamorous, beautiful, massive play.
I, I really love that script and getting to be an embedded critic on it, which basically meant that I was not only there to review, but I was in the room watching the process and sort of putting the process in dialogue with the final product. It was super cool. I think more new plays should do that.
It was a lot of fun, but Mev Beattie was in that production in that reading. So get, not only getting to watch Mev rehearse a role and, and prepare for this reading, but actually watching her build it from the ground up. She was the first person to do this role.
It was very, very special. I’ve been a huge fan of Mev’s forever. And so getting to actually not only see her on stage, but work through the tangling and untangling of what it actually means to build a new role in real time with the playwright in the room was wild.
And one of my favorite experiences ever, maybe.
[Phil Rickaby]
Now, as an embedded playwright, or sorry, as an embedded reviewer, how, how do you get to express that to your audience? How, how can you, how do you get to take that information and give that to your audience? Or does that have to wait for the review?
Like, how does this embedded reviewer work?
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah, I mean, it’s super cool. Without getting too into the weeds about it, I will say there’s a piece about this at intermissionmagazine.ca, if people are interested. But Canadian theatre often either doesn’t have money for, or maybe doesn’t feel it has need for production dramaturgs.
So embedded criticism is sort of somewhere between traditional theatre criticism and production dramaturgy. So it’s very process centered. And so the final review isn’t necessarily like a review that you would find in the Toronto Star or Globe and Mail.
But I find that it can be something a little richer, because it’s actually putting the process and the discussions in the rehearsal room and sort of the loose ends in dialogue with the thing that the audience actually sees, which I think, again, for a theatre ecology that gets a fair amount of public funding, that’s the sort of thing that’s really handy in a grant application, or, you know, just the archival of Canadian theatre as well, which I don’t think there’s enough of.
So it’s very cool. And I hope more publications do it soon.
[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. Yeah. I think one of the things I remember years ago, I was in New York and I was at the library, I think it was library, the Lincoln Center, which is the Performing Arts Library.
And I came, I realized that you could see the archival video of any show from like back in the 70s and like experience the show, like, not like be in the room because you can’t do that anymore, but to like see the original cast perform the show. And we don’t really have that in Canada. We don’t have the opportunity to do that very often.
So any archival information is kind of is gold for people who are looking back on theatre.
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah, absolutely. And like not to get on too much of a soapbox, but I think at its best, theatre criticism sort of is that means of archival, right? Like, I remember when I first moved to Toronto, I was curious if anyone had ever done the show Songs for a New World by Jason Robert Brown.
It is unsurprisingly a musical. I love that show. It’s one of my favorite scores of all time.
And I was curious if anyone had done it in Toronto. And the only thing I could find that proved that anyone had done it was a review that talked maybe a little more about the men’s paper towel dispenser than the show itself. And I remember just being so irritated because I’m like, I don’t really care if it was good or not.
That’s not why I’m reading this. I’m actually just curious. How did they do it?
What was the directorial vision, if any? So I think, you know, that level of snark sometimes has its place. But, you know, as someone who at the time was a theatre student and who was interested in theatre history, I was like, oh, this isn’t helpful for that.
[Phil Rickaby]
As somebody who may have been around when that publication was printing these reviews, I probably know what publication that was. But it was the biggest complaint back in the day when that publication was in existence that the reviews would concentrate on things that were not germane to the production in some cases. It was iMagazine back in the day when they first started up.
Every review would start with all the things they didn’t like that got them to the theatre and why they were in a bad mood when they sat down or whatever. Very little, not enough about the actual show.
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah, again, I think that there can be a place for that, right? It’s just being able to couch it with who does this serve? And if the answer isn’t either your audience or maybe much more on the list, the artist, I don’t think it’s worth saying.
I think the occasional laugh is OK, but only putting out snark isn’t helpful to anyone.
[Phil Rickaby]
Absolutely, absolutely. And like you say, in many cases, especially in Canada, the review is the record. The stills that are published, production stills that might go along with an article, that’s the record of what that show looked like.
And there are shows that, again, I’ve only seen pictures of, I’ve only heard about. And it’s because of the reviews that I know anything about those productions. And that’s super valuable and yet also sad in the way that we don’t have a visual record aside from that.
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah, indeed. I mean, I am a big fan of programs like Stratbust at Home, which does have the very professional quality archival recordings of different plays. I wish there were more of those.
I am a self-proclaimed stan of The Master Plan by Michael Healy, based on the book by Joshua Cain, who I also now work with, which is crazy. But I love that play. And if I could watch it twice a week, I probably would.
But I can’t.
[Phil Rickaby]
So it is. I mean, I will say I will say that when I was in high school, one of the first things that I saw that was Shakespeare and the thing that made me love Shakespeare in high school was Stratford production that was on the CBC. Like that, it’s so valuable to be able to get that out there and to have those, to share those with people who maybe couldn’t get to the theatre and so that they can fall in love with those shows as well.
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah, absolutely. And again, like I am of a generation of slime tutorials or Broadway bootlegs, they’re more professionally called. So I spent so much time in high school and early university just watching these terribly recorded bootlegs of the shows that I had desperately wished I could see.
And, you know, ethical, not necessarily. But like, I don’t I don’t want to be pro bootleg. I think they’re not great for copyright, but they’re kind of handy for archival, I have to say.
[Phil Rickaby]
I mean, in some ways they are. I mean, again, as in my time as an in my time as an usher, it was my job to find the people who were filming those slime tutorials and try to stop them from doing so. Totally.
But it’s like I do think that that we the alternative should be a better quality production that maybe people could buy tickets to and see digitally. And like because I still think about that professionally filmed version of of Hamilton that was available on Disney Plus and the fact that like it was so well filmed that it I mean, at the time it reminded me why I was sad that I wasn’t seeing in a theatre. But like it’s still effective.
I prefer those two movie adaptations of a play. I want to hear the audience react to the song, not like I don’t I don’t want to see a movie adaptation. I want to see a live filmed version.
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah, I mean, I that was exactly my thought when this is lore. When I first moved to Toronto, that was TIFF 2021. And that’s when they so Dear Evan Hansen, the movie opened TIFF that year.
Full disclosure, I have a Dear Evan Hansen tattoo. I am less attached to that show now than I used to be, but I was very attached to it when it came out and after. So I was so excited to see the movie and get to re-experience it.
I’d seen it on Broadway and I loved it. I remember my heart just kind of breaking where it’s like, oh, no, the thing that made it good was that it was theatre. This is now quite bad because it’s not theatre anymore.
And the story was never written to be told in this way. And there are things about maybe the casting and artistic choices that work fine on a stage that work less fine on a huge screen. So I just remember sitting in that theatre at TIFF, just so excited to even be there and just kind of feeling my heart break in real time.
It’s like, oh, I just wish you had spent this money on a crow shot that would have been better for all involved.
[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, I have to say many, many years ago, again, showing my age, I remember when the movie version of Rent came out and how disappointed I was and everybody that I knew who was in theatre at the fact that that show started wrong. It was like, again, this is a play that was meant to be on a stage and all of the things that made it awesome were sort of taken away. There are pro shots of it that you can still see now.
But and I prefer those to the movie version. So I think I wish there were more of those. And I wish we had more of those in Canada that people could, again, buy a digital ticket to.
I think that’s the to me, that’s one of the things that we missed out on from the pandemic is the opportunity to share the work that we’re doing across Canada by essentially doing a pro shot and like or like filming it and like making it available to people as a ticket. I know that there are people who disagree, but I think we could have been watching some great theatre.
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah, I’m hugely inclined to agree. I yeah, I remember getting very tired of digital theatre, quote unquote, very quickly, and it’s not something I ever want to return to. But you know, when the Come From Away pro shot came out, I watched that like the night it came out.
Absolutely. All they PBS just did next to normal a pro shot from the West End and watching that with my husband was thrilling. It was amazing.
That doesn’t make me any less likely to go and see that show. It’s just I don’t know. It’s a different way of engaging with theatre that I think is a really valuable part of what theatre is in the landscape.
[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, I mean, again, I don’t I don’t think anybody who was making theatre, anybody who was watching it into a digital theatre. But but those those productions, those film productions, I think that they are again, they’re a great way to experience it. And also, I kind of think that with a lot of those, it doesn’t not sell you an in-person ticket because, you know, people will buy a ticket.
They’ll go see their favorite band, play the songs from the albums that they already own. You know, I think that that and again, you can see like pro shots of I think the one from Hadestown is being done, filmed in London and all of these. I think those are opportunities to like show people what they’re missing by not being in the room and people who can’t afford to will go see it.
But it’s another it’s a way to to share shows in a way that we haven’t we haven’t really done as much as we could.
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah, I mean, this is certainly on a different scale, but I mean, I find myself thinking of the heiress tour, Taylor Swift, right? She didn’t sell any fewer tickets because they did the film version of the heiress tour. I you know, I went to the heiress tour twice and watch the movie.
Those two things did not inform the other. Really, it was it was just a different experience and a really nice one. All three times.
[Phil Rickaby]
Absolutely, absolutely. I remember that that I had seen from PBS productions of Sweeney Todd, Into the Woods and Into the Woods, that one. Into the Woods.
Like it’s so good. And like all of these shows that I would never have been able to experience if not for like PBS airing the pro shot. And I think that those actually help get those plays produced in the future as well, because people see how good they are, how an audience reacts to them.
And it’s a great way to to keep the show in the in the zeitgeist.
[Aisling Murphy]
Yeah, absolutely.
[Phil Rickaby]
Now, as somebody who, you know, you started out, you wanted to be in theatre, you wanted to be in musicals. Is there a musical that you had or still have that you would be like, that’s this is the musical I would have done. This is the role I wanted to do.
[Aisling Murphy]
Oh, my God. Yeah, so many that I’ll never, ever do because of my job. But yes, I so I played Norma in Carrie, the musical in high school.
And I think I’m too old for now. But getting to play Carrie, I did a lot of the repertoire from that when I was taking voice lessons and loved it. I got to do Songs from Your World in university.
So I think I can cross that one off. Same with Snoopy and You’re a Good Man, Charlie Brown. Those have both been bucket lists for a while.
Man, like my taste in musical theatre tends to skew very in Indies, the wrong word, but sort of contemporary and more underground. So I love the Kerrigan and Loudermilk canon. I would love for someone to do The Mad Ones.
I think that’s an amazing show. Obviously, I can’t be in it, but I hope someone does it regardless. But like, you know, any anything in Kerrigan and Loudermilk, some of the earlier Pasek and Paul stuff, they have a song cycle called Edges.
That’s beautiful. And yeah, before I was a theatre critic, I would sort of sit and hope that someone would do it so I could be in it. Same with Dogfight.
But that’s OK. Things have worked out the way they were supposed to, I think.
[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah, yeah. No, I always find everybody has that show that they want to do, even if they whether they’re in theatre still or if they sort of like are not performing anymore. There’s always that one show that’s like, that’s the show.
That’s the role.
[Aisling Murphy]
I did. Oh, my God. I went to a theatre.
I went to a summer camp for theatre critics last year. It’s maybe the best thing I’ve ever done. It was so much fun.
But there was a karaoke night at the end. And so this program was at the Eugene O’Neill Theatre Center in Waterford, Connecticut, which is where the musical title of show it had one of its workshop rounds there. And so for Critic Karaoke Night, I sang a way back to the end, which is like not the 11 o’clock number, but it’s like one of the bigger songs later in the show.
I was like, oh, my God, this is as close to spirituality as I get. Oh, my God, this is everything I want. So I think in that moment, I was like, maybe I do want to do a show someday.
But also, I can’t.
[Phil Rickaby]
So I mean, maybe eventually you’ll decide that you want to get back to it. Who knows? Right.
We don’t know what the future holds.
[Aisling Murphy]
That is true.
[Phil Rickaby]
Well, Ashley, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate you giving me some of your time. I’m glad that the stars aligned that allowed us to have this conversation.
[Aisling Murphy]
Me too. Thank you so much for having me. It’s been so fun.
