Toronto Fringe Extra #1

This week on Stageworthy, host Phil Rickaby brings you a special Toronto Fringe Extra episode, featuring interviews with 4 Toronto Fringe Artists, in advance of the Toronto Fringe Festival, running July 2-13 at various locations around Toronto.

In this episode:
Dawna Wightman, playwright and performer in HOODY, an edgy retelling of Little Red Riding Hood for people who have kept their child soul.
SHOW INFO AND TICKETS: https://fringetoronto.com/fringe/show/hoody

Adam Bailey, creator and performer of Adam Bailey: My Three Deaths in which Adam learns that no matter how many times you die – you only live once.
SHOW INFO AND TICKETS: https://fringetoronto.com/fringe/show/adam-bailey-my-three-deaths

Composer and comedian Eli Pasic on Screamin in the Rain, in which he sings his tasteless, original ditties!
SHOW INFO AND TICKETS: https://fringetoronto.com/fringe/show/screamin-rain

Fuschia Boston talks about String of Pearls, an exploration of how a shift of power influences the lives of a theatre company shaping both their artistic journeys and their personal relationships.
SHOW INFO AND TICKETS: https://fringetoronto.com/fringe/show/string-pearls

Watch for another Toronto Fringe Extra on Thursday, Next week!

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Transcript

Welcome to Stageworthy. I’m Phil Rickaby, the host and producer of this podcast. This is a special episode.

It is an extra episode, and you’re going to be seeing some extra episodes for the next few weeks as I put out some special editions of Stageworthy to feature some shows from Toronto Fringe. Each of the special episodes, the fringe extras, as I’m calling them, will feature 15-minute interviews with four productions in each episode. So this is the first of those episodes.

Before I get into that, let’s take care of a little bit of housekeeping. If you’re watching on YouTube, please make sure that you like this episode. And if you’ve liked the episodes that you’ve watched so far, please make sure that you hit the subscribe button and click on that little bell icon because that will make sure that you get notified every time I release an episode.

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In fact, regardless of whether you’re watching on YouTube or listening to the audio version, liking the episode, rating the episode, subscribing are great ways to bump this podcast up or bump the video up in the algorithm so more people get to discover it. As you may have heard me talk in some previous episodes, I do have a Patreon that helps me to support this show. My patrons help me to pay for the costs of making this show.

And of course, like I said before, we are only covering things like the hosting of this show and editing software. And aside from that, all the effort that I am putting into this podcast is currently unpaid. And I’ve had to drop adding transcripts to the episodes on my website, because I’ve spent so much time trying to clean up the transcripts that I do have, that it’s become untenable.

And there are services that I can use, but those again, cost money. To do so I would need $20 a month from some backer to commit to that for the year. Or I need a few more supporters at $7 Canadian to back the podcast so that I can start adding transcripts to the to the shows again.

That said, if you are interested backers get early access to every episode, we will discuss issues that are coming up that I might want to cover. There’s a couple that I’m working on. I have broached those a little bit.

Those will happen after the Toronto Fringe. So if you want early access, and you want to be able to to participate and steer this podcast into the future, and allow me to as I grow the podcast and the Patreon to be able to offer you more as patrons, please go to patreon.com slash stageworthy and become a patron of this podcast. Without further ado, let’s get into the interviews for this episode.

First up, Dawna Wightman is an actor, writer and co producer of Hoodie. Hoodie is an edgy retelling of Little Red Riding Hood for people who have kept their child soul. Here’s that interview.

Dawna Wightman, thank you so much for joining me. Could you quickly give me just sort of the pitch for your show? Sure. Hoodie is an edgy retelling-ish of Little Red Riding Hood for people who have kept their child soul.

It’s not for children, but it’s not adult, like wink, wink, nudge, nudge adult. Like, well, there are, you know, in the show, I won’t give away too much, but you know, there are adult, thematically adult, you know, the big bad wolf does have a hunger. I play the big bad wolf in the show.

And I’m tiny, I’m five foot two. And my lovely Hoodie, who is played by Graham Knox. Graham is six foot six.

We’re having so much fun. And this is theatre out of the ooze. This is theatre, you know, that I hope everybody makes.

Yeah. You are a co producer, an actor, actor in the show and the writer of the show. Tell me about where the show came from.

Where the show came from? Wow. Well, I guess the show came from, I have family members, like who isn’t different? But we’re all, who isn’t different? I’m different, you’re different, we’re all different. But and we all do judge a book by its cover.

And so I thought, oh, man, ageism is really rampant still. Like I am 10 years older than God. And I’m judged by that every day.

Today, someone said, How old are you? I just turned ice cream flavors. Now I say, Oh, I’m butter pecan. But we do.

And we can’t help it. You know, it helps us survive in and navigate a very tricky, you know, social milieu. So yeah, I try, I’m trying to knock that down and hoodie.

Yeah. Um, you refer to hoodie as a magic play. What does that mean to you? Well, it’s a magic play on so many levels.

You know, it’s magic in that the characters and from once upon a time, and they fall, you know, when you open up a book, Phil, and there’s a crease in every book, they fall into that crease, and they come up inside the bodies of humans in Toronto in 2025. So it’s magic on that level. It’s also magic in the sense that we’re doing this, like, God bless my community who support all my plays.

And, and they helped they they have lifted hoodie up. Um, but we’re doing this on a very little budget. So you’re seeing the actors, you know, using the props, it’s sort of like, if, if this play was a dress, it would be on inside out.

I like that. I like that. Um, now, one of the things that’s great about about fringe is that it gives you the opportunity to produce a show without having that huge overhead of renting a theatre.

But you know, a lot of times, those of us who are creating fringe shows are doing it on on a shoestring or less budget, as you’re as you’re saying, so how do you make that work? Beg? Oh, oh, I mean, oh, you want more? Okay. Oh, okay. So is it below me to say I have been in people’s garbage? Is that too low? No, no, nothing’s too low.

Yeah. Okay. So, you know, you make it by being the what I how I feel about theatre.

And in Canada, I’ve worked in I’ve been lucky enough, fortunate enough at two of my plays have gone to New York. But working in Canada, it feels to me like a lot of professional theatre is bound up so tight that we’re forgetting how to play. And what if what if we took it a step back? I really, really, really believe that you have a story to tell.

I have a story to tell. We all have these stories to tell. And we can tell them without a big budget.

So we call in our, we call in our friends, we call in our family, I have been in the car. And the ladies coming to the show are not just to make sure it was garbage, right? Yeah. So yeah, that’s how we’re doing this.

We’re just doing it. It’s winging a prayer. And just having so much fun.

It’s so much fun to do this work. And it also helps to have chosen the right people. Yeah, of course, of course.

And and and as far as the people go, how how do those people come to you? How did you choose those people? Oh, wow. If I just say yes, all you know, it’s just a flood. I do have some connections that are who are my mentors.

There’s a creative director in Chicago, who is my mentor. He’s been doing this a lot longer than I have. I haven’t been doing this forever.

I had another career. I was an actor. Then I took a chunk.

And then I came back to it. And I get the people by listening to my mentors. So putting a call out there and equity, I’m part of equity, Canadian actors equity, and putting a call out to my friends, the directors I’ve worked with before as an actor saying to them, because as you know, Phil, and I know, working with people is so much more than talent.

As some one agent said to me, everybody’s got talent. But it’s about who you are. And are you going to can you put up with this ridiculously low budget, but very creative play, you know, and that’s who I found.

Yeah, no, it’s so important. It’s so important to find people that, you know, you can’t just pull anybody into a production, they have to jive, you know, especially for fringe, because there’s so much more than just a rehearsing and performing that goes into fringe. So it’s so important to have people that you work well with.

And one of the things that you were mentioning was about the way that the play being fun, and how, and I think I’ve, you know, I’ve complained about this with my with with friends now and then about how so much of the theatre that we are producing in Canada, I can’t speak for all Canada, but I can speak for Toronto seems like it’s very serious. Yeah, and that and that there isn’t enough fun in in the stuff that’s being produced. You alluded to it, but I want to hear more about about the importance of fun in theatre.

Well, that discovery, you know, like, in my play, when the characters fall into Toronto into this really gritty apartment, you know, the Big Bad Wolf has blue lips, and Little Red Riding Hood has blue freckles. And we don’t know why that happened. And we just have been discovering, I as the playwright, I only came up with that as I was after I had written like the third draft, I think.

And I thought, I know, because everyone I know, we all kind of drag our past with us. Like, I have a U-Haul, my past is in a U-Haul in my driveway. So you know, we, I thought, well, wouldn’t it be neat when they fall through nurse the book, the fairy tale book, if they brought some of the ink with them, some of their past with them, even though they’re trying to belong in Toronto in 2025.

But these characters, the reason they’ve got blue freckles, it’s their ink. And the reason they’ve got, you know, the blue lips is they brought their past along with them. So they’re really trying to escape that this gruesome story that’s been written for them in Hoodie.

And it’s, they do some pretty wacky things to escape that gruesome. Yeah, like Curly Whirlies are involved and Taily Whirlies, but I won’t say more. Okay, no, that’s fair.

That’s absolutely fair. Now, the Toronto Fringe is a great institution been around for 20, 25 years at 25 years, something like that, or close to it, close to it. But it has become a hugely important part of the of the Toronto theatre scene.

What’s been your relationship with the Toronto Fringe in the past and to now? And what does Fringe mean to you? Oh, wow, that’s a great question. You’re smart. I like that.

The Toronto Fringe let me do a site specific venue for my show Life as a Pomegranate the first time. And I performed in a laundromat, and taking clothes in and out of the washers and dryers. And I had an audience of five.

And then they let me back in from another show called A Mickey Full of Mouse. And, and they’ve just, they’re just a great fun way to get a show. You know, it, we don’t have to think of so much of the stuff that creators are not, well, me, I’ll speak for me.

I’m not good at it. I’m not good at like, there are eight types of human intelligence. I can tell you, I’m very creative.

And I’m really kind. That’s it. That’s it.

The buck ends there with me. So the Fringe offers us a way to, you know, get things going, they help us so much. And this show, by the way, we’ve already, but there’s a big caveat.

We’ve already been picked up in New York. Oh, hey, it was workshopped in New York at the Roy Arias Theatre by a producer there, way back, and then COVID hit. Yeah.

And so I left it and left it. But Hoodie’s, I love Hoodie. I love rehearsing Hoodie.

I love performing the little bit we performed. We didn’t perform the whole play in New York. And now the same producer, I was asking him, speaking of how do we find our cast and crew? I was asking him if he knew of any Canadian stage managers.

And he said, Why? What are you doing? I said, Well, I teased out Hoodie. I’m going to be at the Toronto Fringe with Hoodie. And he said, Oh, yeah, you got to bring it to, and we’re bringing it to New York.

It’s incredible. Yeah, it is fun. However, I was listening to CBC about who like, yeah, it’s kind of tricky right now.

Yeah. So that’s not they’ve asked us to go next July. Am I? I will see.

Yeah, of course. Of course. Who knows what’s going to happen? Yeah.

One of the things that is is part of the Fringe is, you know, the the advertising of the show, pitching your show to audience members, and, and, you know, firing lineups and that sort of thing. That was when I was doing Fringe. And when I’ve done Fringe in the past, that’s my least favorite part.

So I’m always curious with other people. How do you deal with the the line firing? And do you enjoy it? Yeah, I am. I am.

I am an introvert times 10. But I have a lovely cast member, Graham Knox, who plays Hoodie. And he’s so extroverted.

And I’m sure he’s going to be panning. Well, we came up with these little cards. This is how I broke through to market the show.

So I ordered little round business cards. And on one side is, you know, a little red riding hood and the big bad wolf in bed, the old old 1697 sketch with the the CN Tower coming out of the wolf’s bonnet. And then on the other side is the information about Hoodie.

And I punched holes in each of my 250 business cards. And then when I hand them to people to break through my own introversion, I say, You know what, Hoodies are really magic kind of show. Do you want to kind of get a flavor of the magic? And they say, Yeah, sure.

I say, Well, hold that punch hole up to your eye of the business card. Hold your eye and look through the hole and aim it at me and you’ll see the big bad wolf. And when they aim the punt, they look through, I go.

And then they go. And it kind of breaks that ice for me and them. And then I can talk up my show.

So line of flyering. I’ve got to admit the other times I was in the fringe, I didn’t do it. Is that a bad thing to say? It’s not a bad thing to say because it is one of the hardest things.

Yeah. The last time I did the Toronto Fringe, I had a really enthusiastic stage manager who loves doing it. And they I would show up to flyer and they’d already been there, which was which was great because I didn’t have to like sweat it so much.

I sweated. I did. Um, yeah.

What would be in terms of like, just as we’re sort of like drawing to the end of our time together, what would be something that you would want people to know about Hoodie that might make them decide that this is a show they want to add to their must see list? Oh, I would love. Oh, I’m pulling this out of my head. All the little threads.

I would say Hoodie is very lowbrow, very silly. And it was meant to help you just sit down and let us hold you and love you. It’s a it’s a gentle, sweet, silly play.

And we just want you to take your mind off of the world for 16 minutes. That’s it. That’s wonderful, Donna.

That’s great. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you giving me some time today.

And I look forward to seeing Hoodie at the Toronto Fringe. Next up is Adam Bailey, My Three Deaths. My Three Deaths is a solo play about how Adam Bailey, the creator and performer of the show, learns that no matter how many times you die, you only live once.

Here’s that conversation. Adam Bailey, thank you so much for joining me. I want to talk for a second or talk for the next little bit about your show at the Toronto Fringe, My Three Deaths.

So intriguing title. Could you tell me a bit about your show? I died three times. And this is the story about the three times that I died.

It’s like an anthology play. It’s like it’s one long story. It’s shorter stories about the times that I died.

There is a spoiler alert that comes with the show. Oh, obviously. Obviously, somebody can’t go into this show not knowing that you died three times.

But we have to stop and talk about the fact that you died three times. One of them, one of them was metaphorical. One of them is a metaphor.

Okay. Okay. But that still leaves two non-metaphor times that I died.

And that’s more than enough for most people. I mean, low on the scale for cats, but for people, you don’t normally die that many times. Most people just do it once.

I mean, it does mean I have a third death coming up. That’s great. Actually, yes, it does.

It does. Ultimately, at the end, one of them isn’t metaphorical anymore. That’s right.

I do have three deaths. I pride myself on my show as being about truth. And I just realized that even that tiny lie, even that tiny lie smuggled into the show title is now not a lie.

Damn it. All right. I’m going to ask the question.

I don’t want to take away from the show, so we’re not going to talk about the three deaths. But let’s talk about what made you want to write a show about it. So, I mean, some of the stories I’ve had other storytellers be like, you need to tell that story.

But the thing that brought it together was I had that year where the deaths came in threes. And so I’m also going to talk about those three deaths that happened because I was thinking about a lot when my mother passed a little bit early. She was 66 when that happened.

And then shortly after she died, my grandfather died at 93. He was my last living grandfather. It was a huge shock to our family, but no one else treated it that way.

And that’s like a weird thing to go is to have a 93-year-old die and you’d be like, but he was healthy. And everyone’s like, oh, no, you must be so relieved that he’s. I’m like, no, he was great.

He was doing fine. And then there’s one other death that happened in that year, almost to the date of my mother’s death, like a year later. And I was like, OK, well, this is now a show.

This is something I need to work through this. I need to talk about this. And it’s that feeling, especially with the grandfather of.

Whatever your experience is, you have to deal with how everyone else is contextualizing it. And how everyone else feels about it and your feelings almost become unimportant when people are giving condolences to you, like you have to continue to be the person they’re giving condolences to so that they can feel good, they’ve played their role, they get to walk away and you’re like, did that have anything to do with with me and. And did it.

And so I feel like I’m probably not the only person who’s had like weird death experiences and probably would like to see those reflected as opposed to what we normally get with death. I think it’s really interesting to be talking about death just in general, because it is something that our society doesn’t talk about. We don’t talk about about dying.

We we when somebody does die while one person is grieving, the rest of the rest of the world tries to, like, make it go away as quickly as possible. Are you haven’t you got over that yet? Are you like, why are you still feeling this way? It’s it’s such a huge thing. And preparing for somebody to die and dealing with grief, these are things that we don’t even talk about that we don’t.

Adult death stories are all murder or or tragedy. There’s nothing that naturalizes it in the stories that we tell each other as adults. And sometimes even the murder stories, like when it’s only murders in the building, the death even becomes unimportant.

Like there’s no sorrow, there’s no grief, there’s no sadness or or that’s all there is. The the the people we do death well for our kids. If you want a really good story about death in North American culture, you got to go to Disney.

Like you got to go to Guillermo del Toro’s Pinocchio is a great movie about death and it’s for kids. Coco is a great movie about death. It’s for kids.

They they get to have stories with death that really makes sense for us as adults. We don’t. And especially around that sacredness, when someone is passing, we never have stories about that being a time that we’re allowed to enjoy or process with the person that we’re going through it with.

And I think that’s something that I’ve heard other people talk about being one of the harder things to wrap your head around, because you have to perform bereavement a certain way for everyone else around you. And if you had spiritualism, joy, any sense of positivity coming from the hardship of death, people don’t know how to package that unless they’ve gone through it themselves. But also, I think that people really will only accept your grieving for an amount of time that makes them comfortable.

And then they are then they’re just like, OK, I can’t deal with this about you anymore. So come back when you’re not sad anymore or something like that. Like it be very difficult for for people to deal with because we don’t talk about it.

Oh, yeah, you’re definitely you’re on a timer. That that is that is for sure. You’re performing.

You’re on a timer. You need to be over at a certain time. And yet we all know, I mean, the cliche now is almost inverse, like people say you never get over it.

So when you do start feeling better, you always kind of feel guilty, too, because you’re like, oh, wait, I’m never supposed to get over this. My mother died. So Mother’s Day is always supposed to be sad.

And and this year for Mother’s Day, I watched Mrs. Harris Goes to Paris. My mom wasn’t there, but I did like a mom thing because that’s the day you do mom things on. And I felt great.

Mrs. Harris Goes to Paris is a great movie and it’s all about fashion and how great old ladies are. And why wouldn’t I want to do that on Mother’s Day, regardless of having a mom or not? Now. You have a lot of shows, you have a long history of of of fringe shows, however, only two of the shows, this one and Adam Bailey is on fire, are about personal material.

For the times that you chose to write about personal things, what were the driving forces? I mean, we talked about this one, but like, if it’s not if it’s not something that’s usually what you write, why why did you choose to write those ones? Yeah, I mean, that’s a great question. And I still wonder that myself. I mean, for this one, I work with James Gangle because he does a lot of personal work.

And I wanted to have someone who’s done that before to help me with this. The last time was about my coming out process and about queer culture and religion. It was Adam Bailey is on fire, which was all about me going to hell.

Surprisingly, not in the death show. I went to hell in a different show. And.

And in that case, I think it was a topical because that’s when people refusing to do get a gay wedding cakes or sell gay people pizza was happening and people were like Christians against gays. I’m like, what happens if you’re both? I thought that was a unique perspective that I could bring forward. And in this case, I think it’s because I once again, I think I have a unique perspective because my mom was such a cut up and such a card that even though she died at sixty six after a year of cancer, she got diagnosed before she could even retire right on the cusp.

And. That that gave me a unique perspective on on that, so I think acknowledging that unique perspective moment. Otherwise, my life is just my life.

Why would anybody want to hear that? I can tell you stories about famous historical people. No, you like we said, you have a long history with the fringe. Was the first show that you did in the fringe? The Enchanted Crack House.

Only only only at the fringe. It was a mix puppet opera rock opera musical that took place at the back back back of the fringe tent when they had the honest Ed’s parking lot. And kids sometimes end up sitting and watching this very inappropriate for children musical and people were fine with it somehow.

And we had giant mascot puppets and regular sized puppets and they sang songs about drugs. And there was a rat named Radio and a squirrel named Squirrelly at and there was a whole thing with them that had to had to get resolved. Yeah, that was that was my first.

What an introduction to friend. My second friend show was the assassination of Robert Ford, Dirty Little Coward, where I wrote that one. And it was I basically I stumbled across the story of the person who shot Jesse James, realizing that their name was the exact same name as our then much maligned mayor, Rob Ford.

And I was like, oh, wait, this is an amazing story. I need to do this. And there were some really interesting parallels between the two stories that that made it very easy to be like, I’m talking about this, but I’m also talking about what’s happening now.

And it was very interesting because there’s a time where people like we don’t want to hear anything more about Rob Ford. We don’t want to hear any more right wing populism. Right wing populism is done after Rob Ford is out of the office.

We’ll never think about right wing populism ever again. And I and I wrote this and it was what everyone’s like, OK, that’s the exception. We’ll listen to this and that.

And I left the door open, actually, for right wing populism to have a comeback, I think. And I’m a progressive. So that that was really it was I take responsibility.

It’s my fault. At the time, writing a show about a sitting mayor as as controversial and as world infamous as he was, was there flack around that, around the title about that, or was was it just like free for all? I mean, most people were avoiding it. There was a group that had a show coming out in September that was kind of peeved that I ate their lunch a little bit because they were a bit more pro, like recognized as pro than I was, because I’ve always been more in cabaret and clown circles and burlesque and things like that.

So suddenly I write a play and my play makes a big splash and becomes the Rob Ford play of that year. So I think but mostly people like, no, this is really cool. And because it was very smartly done, I didn’t stab right wing populism in the heart with the show.

I talked about how anger motivates us and how anyone can become a bad person with the right level of anger. Mm hmm. Yeah.

I mean, people have alluded to the fact that if you go left far enough, you come around to the right. And sometimes there’s been some crossover there. I’ve known people who consider themselves left their whole lives.

And then they start they start talking and you realize they’ve gone around to the other side, the opposite side. A lot of granola crunchers ended up moving over onto the right hand side. And you’re like, oh, that’s that’s interesting.

But it’s a lot to do with relationships with with anger and how you’re allowed to express and what you’re being told you’re allowed to express. And true. When we don’t have healthy outlets that are natural to us, we’re told that we can only focus our anger through this tiny, tiny straw.

Then then we get kind of fucked up. Yeah, no, absolutely. Now you’re taking this show after Toronto, you’re taking the show to the Winnipeg Fringe and the Edmonton Fringe, which are, you know, you went from Toronto to two of the biggest fringes in in in in North America.

You this isn’t your first rodeo with either of those fringes. No, no, I’ve been I’ve actually probably done those fringes now. At least Winnipeg, I might have done the most now.

Winnipeg, Winnipeg might be the one I’ve been at the most. Edmonton, I’ve been at a bunch, too. They’re both great fringes.

Yeah. Yeah. The logistics of touring, especially when you’re doing a solo show, can be a bit a bit challenging.

Now, you’re you’ve done this a few times. How do you prepare for traveling to a fringe that’s not at home? Oh, I don’t. I buy a plane ticket.

I fill out my billet form late. I get stuck in the billet. That’s the way that the far edge of town.

I’m I’m always like, does anybody have a chair? My show needs a chair. And I don’t know where I can get a chair because I’ve never heard of Walmart. And everyone’s like, go to Walmart and then you can return the chair at the end of the fringe.

They have to take it back because it’s less than a month. And I’m like, that’s so unethical. I don’t want to be unethical to Walmart.

You know, I run around town searching for a chair for three days. That that’s what I do when I go on the road. So very seat of your pants.

There’s more to it than that, but that’s how it is. That’s that’s 100 percent how it feels. Is there so has has has has has my three deaths been performed before? Is this like a premiere of this brand new show? Parts of it have been performed in James Gangle’s storytelling night.

He does classes and has nights at Sweet Action Theatre. So I think three sections of this play might have been performed to very small audiences as they’re just testing because it is because it’s so personal. These stories making sure like, do you want to hear these stories about like stuff that actually just happened to me? And the 30 people that showed up to a student cabaret did.

It was lovely. But otherwise, Toronto will be the world premiere of the show. Um, what are you most looking forward to about having audiences see this show? Um, I mean, I love I love the laughs, obviously.

I mean, it’s storytelling. I’m not a stand up. I make a point of that in this show.

But I do love it when I get the last but also like the conversation. A lot of what what my personal work is, is that I want to ask the right questions that keep you asking those questions after the show is done. I don’t I don’t try and give it a show that leaves you with, oh, that person thinks A plus B equals C. I want to give you a this is a question and I’m going to leave it with you.

And what do you think about this? And I hope that this gives people those questions and allows to see a part of themselves reflected. That’s great. Adam, thank you so much for talking with me.

My three deaths at the Toronto Fringe this year. I’m looking forward to seeing this show, as always, of any of your shows. So I’ll see you.

I’ll see you at the Fringe. Songwriter and comedian Eli Pasic brings Screaming in the Range to Toronto Fringe. In this show, Eli sings his, in his words, tasteless original ditties for your enjoyment.

Eli Pasic, thank you. Thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate you making some time for me just to jump in.

Tell me about your show at the Toronto Fringe. You know, Phil, I can. My show at the Toronto Fringe is called Screaming in the Range.

And I think the easiest way to describe it would be it’s not quite stand up and it’s not quite a concert. And it’s certainly not a plotted book show. And it’s not a musical or anything.

Essentially, it’s just jokes and songs. And I’m going to be singing for and talking for about 50 minutes. And hopefully people will like it.

Okay, so it’s the it’s the it’s the musical stand up concert hybrid. Yeah, it’s a hybrid, essentially jokes and songs, original songs. And I’ll be sitting at a piano, singing them and talking about anything, everything that annoys me, everything that causes me to scream in the rain, so to speak.

So is this are these songs that you wrote specifically for this show? Are they songs that you had lying around? What’s the origin of of this show? Well, some of them were written specifically for this, principally because I test ran it on my birthday last July. I just, you know, put together this thing. And a lot of those songs were, you know, from they’ve been hanging around for years.

And in test running it, I thought afterwards, I realized half of this show sucks. So then I had to I had to throw half of it out. And I thought I have to write a second half.

So then I wrote new songs specifically, specifically for this, which are better. And half of it’s still good. So I kept the half that’s good and half that’s bad.

A little bit of both. Does songwriting come easy for you? Bad songwriting comes easy. No, I’m kidding.

Depends when you have a great idea. Good ideas are hard to come by. I don’t think anyone would agree with that.

But the actual writing of it is fun and easy when you have a great idea. It’s just coming up with something. And the revelation to me is coming up with something that no one could possibly think of that.

I think that separates really good writing from, you know, good writing. You can come up with something no one’s thought of. And, you know, they sit there going, what is this? You know, and that’s I think that’s that’s hard.

Oh, of course. Yeah. Now, writing song comedic songs, writing comedy songs.

Tell me about tell me about that, because it’s hard to have to do like comedy without song without music. Well, yeah, it’s fine. There’s a relationship, though, in my opinion, between lyrics and jokes.

There’s a element to both that you have to be really concise and really razor sharp with word choices and things. So there’s a correlation. I think this kind of perhaps goes to a larger, you know, point about comedy the way I approach it.

I don’t know. I just think some people are born funny and some people are not. And and when you are, the job then is to not be frivolous.

I think comedy can very easily fall into, you know, very easy sort of trite, cheap, but I think the point is to say what I be personal and say something that you really feel about humans or whatever you’re talking about. And then if you if you’re funny, it will just be funny and you have to apply, you know, intelligence to it. I think that I hope that answers the question.

Now, I mean, you you were mentored by Larry Blank, who’s a Broadway orchestrator. Yes. You’ve written music for you’ve written operetta and that kind of thing is a stand up concert musical, something that is completely new for you.

Is this something that you like? How did you how did you decide on this style? I’ve been slowly moving towards it. And I think it’s probably my favorite form of all, simply because I cut out everyone. You know, they go on about collaboration, and it’s great if you can do it.

I’m just not a very good collaborator in any sense of the word, romantically, professionally, you know, and I just love total control. And the only collaboration it really is, is between you and the audience. And that is so I’m very happy doing it.

The hard part with writing plays and musicals and is you write something and it’s filtered through four or five different people, a choreographer, a director, an actor, by the time it gets to the stage, it’s turned into something completely different. And most of the time, it’s not something you want to see. So now I’m in total control of you know, and it’s I love it.

I love control. Now, but do you think I mean, and this is this is the thing is because the most unpredictable part of any live performance is the audience. And so as a collaborator, the audience can be an unreliable one.

Do you do you do you find that the audience is is that way? That’s happened before I two years ago at the fringe and many times since and before I, the show you were talking referring to, I turned the exorcist into an operetta and did it as a one man show. The difference is there’s a plot to follow with that. But my point is, is there were audiences that were just terrible.

And there were nights where I was terrible, too. You know, there’s, you know, you can have good material, but you can render it poorly. But then also, as we all know, it’s a combination, it’s a joint effort, they help you get to better places.

So, yes, there were nights when the audience was and phones were going off. And the difference is with this show, it is a little more room to comment and make fun of them. So I’m not afraid of that at all.

I think that’s great, you know, and there are times actually in that plotted show where I wish I could harass them more about various terrible things they were doing. But you couldn’t because then you destroy the through line. Did that answer your question? Yeah, absolutely.

It does. It does give you this kind of thing does give you a little bit more freedom. There is, of course, the the tradition of in theatre.

There are performers who are known for dealing with cell phones that go off. Patti LuPone, for example, and in Canada, in Canada, Dana McIver in his solo performances loved when his cell phone would go off. They were gifts for him to harass the audience.

Is that something is the freedom to do that a little something that you’re kind of looking forward to? I would rather not. I would rather they behave, you know, and frankly, when I’m in an audience, I don’t like it when the performer harasses me, you know, especially comedians. If you’re sitting in the front row, good luck.

I never sit in the front row at a comedy. I hate it. But if they do it, it’s nice to know that I can say, you know, say what I want to say.

And, you know, the hell with them. I would never sit in the front row of a comedy show, right? No comedy club. There’s no one going to sit there because that’s asking to be a target.

And unfortunately, a couple of weeks ago, they some poor fellow targeted me and I just refused to go along. And I brought down the atmosphere, you know, as I do. I ruined his show.

But that’s his fault for picking, you know, I don’t want to. I don’t want to. The only thing I like more than performing is not perform.

There’s someone’s comedy show and watching them have to get laughs. And I’m so glad I’m not up there doing that, you know, because there’s a there’s sort of a mercilessness to comedy. They don’t laugh if they don’t find it funny.

Well, that is that is that is the real trick of comedy in general. Like and it could be a slippery slope where like you you do a joke and they don’t laugh and you start to panic. So you do a joke and they don’t laugh and you can go down this spiral.

Yes. However, I found of late, I tested out a show a couple months ago and it was just terrible. And they were not going they didn’t like it and I didn’t like it either.

Really, as I was doing it, I turned the Old Testament into a musical and I did it as a one man show. And nothing was really working, partly because it’s hard to make a joke about something no one knows about. And but I found out the point I brought this up was when things aren’t working, I don’t really panic anymore.

I just go, OK, well, that’s not good. And say the next line. Now, is that something that you’ve learned how to do over time or is that innate for you? Well, you know, you learn it.

You have to say enough bad jokes in your life and you get used to fearing of people not like, OK, well, but sometimes I must say I’m there. Some of my humor, I don’t know if anyone’s seen anything, I’d rise and get a little, I don’t know, tasteless and aggressive. And it’s not for everyone.

And there are some crowds I’ve played certain songs that I won’t say the title of because it was spoiled surprise where they didn’t like it. So now you’d think, OK, they didn’t laugh. You know what? I have to rewrite.

Well, now I take it to a different crowd and then and they laugh, you know, so it depends who’s in the audience. It really does. And there’s a whole factor.

Sometimes the joke is just bad. Sometimes it’s a bad audience. Hard to know.

But how do you figure out which it is? I just said it’s hard to know, but that’s a lie. I’m lying to you, Phil. Sometimes most of the time it’s very easy to tell.

I think with comedy, you really have to write and do what you find funny. I think and back to any kind of writing, the main thing to achieve, I think, is you have to, as they say, you have to find your voice. But that’s really it.

Your voice, it’s actually your perspective on the world. Once you figure that out, you can you can’t write anything. But what you write gets filtered and angled in such a way that at least, OK, well, I’m seeing something I would not see elsewhere.

And like I said, that’s really the key to any good writing is giving them something that they can’t get elsewhere. It’s like any business. Why would you see a second rate version or go to a second rate business or sell? No, you have to figure out who am I? We’re getting philosophical here.

Absolutely. And that’s I forget what point I was trying to make, but that’s what I have to say. The fringe audiences are known for, at least the Toronto fringe audiences, are known for embracing shows that are a little weird, that are a little unconventional.

But you sort of alluded to the fact that some of your songs are a difficult topic, a difficult topic. So how do you find how do you distill the the desire for weird and how do you find the audience that likes weird and something that’s like in line with your your comedy? How do you have a plan for finding those people? Well, first of all, I don’t I wouldn’t personally even classify my stuff as weird. Other people tell me it’s weird.

You know, so I don’t I’m not even aware that this is just normal to me, you know, writing songs about, you know, short terms about bestiality. That’s nothing terrible. You know, that’s on the on the I’m not giving away anything, you know, a nice little ditty about bestiality.

You know, that’s very strange. But but it’s very funny. Also, so I that’s what I do.

And then people come up to me and say, that’s very strange. So step one, what was the what was the point? Oh, how do you like mitigate what you don’t? You just do what you do. And you help people.

You kind of hope you kind of hope that the people who you know, the word spreads and the people who will who like what you’re presenting, what you’re doing are going to find it. Yeah. Yes.

And I think the most important thing, especially in comedy, because there is a chance people are not going to find what you’re saying funny. I think you have to at least first and foremost, be interesting, which is kind of a funny thing to say. And I think that gets rid of a lot of the terrible jokes, you know, in so many initial attempts, you have all these low, as they say, low hanging fruit fruits.

And it’s just stuff anyone can think, OK, get rid of it now, say something more interesting, you know, and then finally you get to the stuff that’s, you know, more personal. And, you know, even if they don’t laugh, it’s still, oh, that’s an interesting point, you know, and that’s that’s where it’s at, in my opinion. It can be really interesting because sometimes, you know, people are always like, do the make the thing that nobody else is making.

And sometimes that is such a difficult question because then you’re like, well, what is nobody else making? If nobody else is making it, how am I supposed to come up with it? Like, how do you do it? And it’s sort of like it’s that’s the same sort of thing with like being interesting, like you have to trust that you and what you’re doing is interesting. Yes, you have to pray to God that you’re interesting and funny. It’s really that’s what it is.

And I’m probably contradicting myself. If you go back three minutes in this interview, I’m saying something completely different, but that’s really what it all is. And I don’t know.

I think a lot of it, too, is you have to. And I’ve done this not only with this show, but other material for many years now. You have to write a lot and put it in front of a lot of different audiences.

And then you start to form a sense of you don’t know all the time, but you get a sense even when you’re talking in conversation and say something funny or not funny, you can still, you know, that’s sort of an audience, only one or two people. But, you know, you if you’re constantly sort of thinking about it and trying, you know, you slowly get a better sense of what to do and certainly what not to do. The only thing, as you alluded to, you can’t ever control is what the audience is going to do.

So the hell with them. Just go on. And, you know, this is what I have to say, guys.

Most of them couldn’t do it anyway, what you’re doing. So why should you feel up? You know, there is a line I heard recently about Ethel Merman, the Broadway star of Yesteryear. She a car is they’re opening some show.

I don’t know what show, but a car’s girl ran up to her and said, oh, my God, Miss Merman, all the critics are here. And she said, well, if they could do it better, they’d be up here, you know, and that’s how I feel, you know, certainly not for everyone, but hopefully enough people to pay my bills. Yeah.

Well, Eli, thank you so much. The show is screaming in the rain at the Toronto Fringe. I look forward to seeing it.

Me, too. Thanks, Bill. And last up, this episode is Fuchsia Boston.

Fuchsia is the writer of and an actor in String of Pearls, a powerful exploration of how a shift in power influences the lives of a theatre company, shaping both their artistic journeys and their personal relationships. Fuchsia Boston, thank you so much for joining me. I’m really excited to talk to you about your Toronto Fringe show, String of Pearls.

Please, could you give me the pitch? What is String of Pearls about? So the pitch would be essentially a new artistic director has come into a theatre and is making some, I guess, questionable to some of the actors, show choices. And that causes friction. And I don’t know how to sell it more than that.

So besides the themes that I’m really playing with. Yeah. Is this I mean, tell me, is this autobiographical? Is this something that’s happened or is this completely imaginary? No.

So some of the characters are based off of real life characters that aren’t me. But all the actors are fictional and the artistic director is fictional. And when they go and they play these other characters, sometimes they get influenced by the choices that these actual people make or made in their lives.

What was the inspiration for this show as the as the writer and actor in this show? Where did where did this show come from? Yeah. So as I mentioned, I do have some pieces that are based off of real people. So in my third year of university, I did a piece on Sandra Bland and that was a solo piece.

So she’ll be in there as one of the characters. But I also minored in professional writing and I learned this technique called the String of Pearls, where it’s kind of like a vignette type of thing. And they all have like a through line, which would be that string.

And the pearls would be the little vignettes. And I was like, I really want to try that with theatre. So I was like, OK, let me just go like basic and put it that these actors are doing these little vignettes so that it helped ground me.

And then it started going from there. And after editing, I found, you know, some symbolism that helped me kind of narrow it down. I’m just trying something and hopefully it’s going to translate.

Yeah. This is this is a brand new show. Nobody’s seen it before.

Correct. Except for the Sandra Bland piece. That’s right.

Is a part of it. Yeah. Right.

Now, you’re you’re coming from Hamilton. You’re you’re a Hamilton based artist and you’re coming. You’re coming.

You’re bringing this show to Toronto. Have you done shows at both fringes, Toronto and Hamilton? What’s your relationship with the festival at OK, so I am currently based in Hamilton. I used to be in Toronto and before that I was in Mississauga.

But this is my first time actually participating in fringe outside being an audience member. That’s great. That’s absolutely incredible.

I always love when somebody gets to be on that side of of the of the stage for the first time. It’s a really exciting experience. How are you finding it so far? It’s I it is a little overwhelming, all of the forms that we have to keep on top of.

Thankfully, I do have my director who’s been a producer numerous times with his own company. So that’s really helping me out. But I feel like I thought there would be a million actors just pouring in to try and be in the show.

And I feel like that’s where I’m a little bit nervous about was trying to find all the actors for the for the show. It’s it you never know. You never know, especially I’m with any show.

You never know how many people are going to come out. What’s your what’s your what the turnout is going to be for auditions and that kind of thing. It’s it’s it’s always exciting to see it all come together.

What are you most looking forward to about about this show and putting it on stage? I think that I really want to get some audience feedback to see because, as I mentioned, I am trying this. It’s usually for a narrative more so like a novel or something like that, like a more so narrative style. And because I’m trying it on stage, like, of course, there’s the collectives where there are different things, but to see if it actually works with the through line coming through.

And I I’ve written something before in university. And apparently at first when everyone was in it, they were like, this is silly because I’m a little bit I go a little satirical, but a little bit weird, I guess. And then a couple of years after I had one of the cast mates come and be like, I get it now.

It makes so much sense. It’s so good. And I want to see if it translates originally when I first do it or where to go from there.

And so that’s actually a really interesting thing for the penny to drop for somebody a much later. But also, I really think that audiences that fringe audiences are pretty smart. Yeah.

And they also kind of like things that are a little weird. So but it can work in your it can work in your favor. As far as as far as like this is your first show in a fringe festival, you are presenting this show essentially for the first time.

That’s that’s a really exciting thing to have happen. And did you enter the lottery on a whim? Did you did you know in advance like this year I’m going to enter this show? What was that like? Yes. So it was it was kind of both.

At first, it was the new play contest that I wanted to get it into. So I took I took my Sandra Bland and then I started like kind of working around it and trying to figure out what I’m going to do. And I just I tried to meet the deadline.

So that’s before I found that symbolism that I mentioned earlier to really kind of make it more cohesive. So I didn’t win it, unfortunately. But then I was like, OK, let me really look at this.

Let me I’m going to go into the lottery. And if I get in, then I’ll really work on it. And then I did get in.

And that’s where I really focused on the editing and kind of making it more precise and be an actual play than just like having something on paper and hoping for the best. As a writer, do you have a particular process that you work from? Is it like do you start from like, do you know where something is going when you start to write it or do you discover it as you go? You know, it’s really interesting as I am kind of working on a novel right now and I have it all set out like I know exactly the plot, how it’s supposed to go. And I’m going in and I’m writing the chapter and I’m just like, what the where’s this going? This is not where it’s supposed to go.

And for the play, it was the opposite. I had a character, I had like an idea that I wanted to experiment with, and then it just flowed out. So I didn’t know where that one was going and that I found it in the editing.

That’s always a fascinating process is is sort of like getting to the end of a writing project and and realizing at the end, oh, now I understand what this is. And then going back and trying to make it look like you meant to do that all along. Yeah, 100 percent.

That’s exactly what I did. I was like, let me make those connect. And you mentioned that you are more that you’ve written you’re writing a novel.

This is this is aside from from the Sandra Bland play or bit. This is really your first writing for the theatre. But you’re you’re an actor, you’ve acted before you.

What was there something that made you want to write a play for the first time as opposed to a novel? I think it was the University of Toronto like program where we were more so studying theatre, not as an actor, as like theoretically and like really understanding how the playwright’s mind works. And that before I used to think, oh, it’s like it’s the writing of a nice play that’s fun to watch or whatever it is. And then after it’s just like, but what was happening during the year when they were writing this? Oh, let’s look at like where they lived, the political climate and seem like, oh, wow, all these different influences can be in there.

I was like, I need to I need to speak on some things, too. Yeah, no, it’s it’s it’s definitely everything in a playwright’s life sort of affects what they’re writing, no matter what it is that they’re writing. It could be a comedy, a good slapstick comedy.

But the things that are going on in the world can really affect that. Now, you you mentioned that this is like an artistic director coming into this company and sort of shaking things up. And would you say that the play is you mentioned your your your that you know a little the weird and the fun? Is this a comedy, a drama or comedy drama? What how would you describe this for an audience member who’s like trying to choose something in the program for, you know, hitting the right spot for them? Hmm.

Naturally, I would say it’s a drama, just the subject material. But as the weird thing that we keep talking about, and I’m kind of a comical character in real life, naturally as well. So I do bring in comedy and I do try and make it the most entertaining, whether it be through comedy or just like this is this is really interesting to watch or listen to the conversation.

So I guess I would say it was it’s a drama with a little bit of a satirical comedy. Nice. Yeah.

Now, Fuchsia, I’m curious about your your theatre journey. How did you come to be somebody who works in the arts, who wants to do theatre, film, that kind of thing? What where did you where did that start for you? Yeah. If you ask my my family, they’ll all tell you that I used to say I’m going to be famous when I grow up.

And I got a piano. I had a little it’s like a typewriter that was before we had computers and had a little screen and I could type and I don’t even know what I was writing. I was like writing something.

I was making these costumes. I was always performing. And like I knew that I was going to be a performer.

But of course, you know, life happens and people influence you to do plan A as plan B or whatever it is. And eventually I found myself back to coming into school for it. And after university, that’s when I got my agent and started taking it seriously.

So you were always somebody who was like performing in the home and things like that. At what point did you decide? Did you figure out that this is a thing that somebody can do? So I think it’s I was living in Florida and I went to university. I was going to university for business then.

And then I dropped out because I was like, I don’t even know. I’m just in school because I wanted to be. And I came back to Canada and I was in my hometown.

And there were people that I had went to high school with and it was a theatre school. And they asked me if I wanted to be in like this play that they were just putting on. And I cried after I was doing it.

I was like, what the heck have I been doing? And they’re just like, we’re going to this school. And I was like, perfect. And I applied there.

I did my first year there. And then I and then I was like, I need to go to Toronto. I need to go to the big city.

And I applied to all the like Toronto universities. And and then I got into the UTM Sheridan joint program. So that was like, oh, sorry.

No, no, no. Go ahead. I’m interested because you kind of glossed over the fact that you did business for a little while and then you you went towards the theatre.

Was the business you mentioned that is to study something. But was there was it as somebody who was performing all the time as a as a younger person, as a child, was was there something that sort of dissuaded you from performing? I know I wasn’t I wasn’t swayed, I think. Well, my mom says that, oh, you’re good at so many things, but you’re not focused on one thing.

So I also played sports when I was in high school. And I had like my piano, which was still a performing thing. But it’s like that takes a certain amount of dedication.

Ultimately, I knew that I wanted to be a performer actor. But I did, yes, I guess in a sense, get swayed. And then like parental influence about choosing something that’s going to be a solid career.

And yeah, I guess even when I went to high school in Florida, I was still doing musical theatre. But it was like, that was that was a hobby. So I don’t know when I realized like, yes, this is what I’m gonna do it for.

For sure, for sure. But now I actually sit here and I write in my house and I’m focusing on my acting. That would have definitely been last year.

100% where I was just like, okay, yeah, coming in to this year, I’m gonna focus on like, I’m telling everyone I’m a playwright. Like I’ve read plays and I’m like, I can do that. That statement, I am a playwright is such a huge step.

It took me years to be able to lead with that. I would tell people other things, like so many other things before I got to playwright. I’ve spoken to a couple of other people who for them, the statement, I’m a playwright was huge.

Was that like, was it was that big for you? Or was it was that like a? Nope, it’s easy. That’s what I am. And 100% it was big.

Oh, my gosh. Sorry. So I have sorry.

No, please. Yes. I had kind of a rough year last year.

And where I was like, okay, let me literally look at what I’m doing, like what I love, why am I not focusing on my passion? When I used to preach to everyone, like you need to do your passion. Look, I’m going back to school for my passion. And one day, like, I don’t know, I think I read a play or I saw someone’s play produced or something.

And I was just like, yeah, but I can do that. Like, I don’t understand why I’m not doing that when I’m literally a playwright. And I know my stuff is good.

So then I called my sister. And I was just like, no, it’s so crazy. Like, I’m a playwright.

I’m a playwright. And she’s like, yeah. And I’m like, no, like, literally, I’m a playwright.

And I’m not writing plays. Like I just need to do that. Because that’s literally what I am.

I think that that I mean, that is such a powerful statement. And and I can say I know why you’re having the emotional reaction that you are right now. Because I’ve had that too, in the past with that statement, the realization that you’re not doing the thing that you’re meant to do, and then just decided that you’re going to do it.

That’s so that’s so powerful. So I just want to say that that, you know, congratulations for making that jump, because what you’re doing is important and good and what you need to be doing. Thank you so much, Phil.

Adam, just to just to sort of like bring it back to String of Pearls. What is your favorite thing about this show? Is there a moment? Is there a scene? Is there something that you could tell me that that is like, the thing that you you sort of like hold is like, this is the thing that is the show for me. Mm hmm.

I think it’s the final scene. And it’s, it was written after my editing. And it’s kind of like, I’m tying everything up in that bow.

And every time I read it, like my heart starts racing. And I’m just like, yes. And like, I’m hoping people are going to see all these things, because as soon as it gets there, the final line, it’s like, whew.

Okay, that line sums it up. That is incredible. I think that it’s so important to trust the audience and it sounds like you are, because the audience will so often follow where we go.

We don’t have to explain every little thing to them. Audiences are smart, and they’ll get there. And I think that that’s, that’s great.

And it sounds like a huge moment. And personally, I can’t wait to see that when I come to see your show. Yay.

Thank you. Well, Fuchsia, thank you so much for talking with me today. I really appreciate you giving me some of your time.

And I’m so looking forward to seeing String of Pearls at the Toronto Fringe. Thank you so much. And that’s it for this episode of Fringe Extras.

I’ll have another one next week. So you’ll hear from four more shows on Thursday. And that’s going to be the schedule regular episode on Tuesday, extra episode on Thursday for the Toronto Fringe, except for next week, because I wanted to mention that next week, there won’t be a regular episode, because that evening, we’re doing a live stream with four podcasts, where we are going to talk about the Toronto Fringe, we’re calling it a Fringe Preview.

So we’ll talk about the shows that we’re looking forward to, things that you shouldn’t miss, and more. And that is in conjunction with the podcast of The View, A View from the Box, Being Dramatic, Cup of Hemlock Theatres, The Cup, and The Creative Full Time Podcast. So look for that on Thursday, June 17, at 7.30pm Eastern Time on YouTube, you’ll find a link to that on Stageworthy on YouTube.

Also, if you’re following on Facebook, and I’m also going to have that all over Instagram as well. So make sure that you check that out on Thursday evening and come join us in the live feed because you will be able to participate. We’ll answer your questions, the chat will be live.

So anything you want to have that you want to say, ask about, it’ll all be there for you to participate in. So please join us live on YouTube. And I’ll see you again on Thursday for another Fringe Extra.