A graduate of the Canadian Dance Company and the Randolph Academy for the Performing Arts, becoming an artist has been a lifelong journey. She has had the privilege of working with many international entertainment companies, performing in a variety of theatrical productions all across the globe. At the age of 32, she has been to 33 countries and through her travels has made an effort to better understand the world and its inequities. Alongside her artistic endeavours, her passion for climate justice and environmentalism has been ongoing. Over the past two years she was able to complete two courses: “Greening the Economy: Sustainable Cities” from Lund University in Sweden and “Political and Moral Foundations” from Yale University. She has participated and volunteered for many climate change and social justice organizations with Friday’s For Future, 350 Canada, Not Another Black Life, Stop Highway 413, Every Child Matters, Black Lives Matter, Juneteenth, Banking on a Better Future and Toronto Indigenous Harm Reduction. She completed a 6 month mentorship with the City of Toronto, Women4Climate, in which The Fourth R was mentored by climate experts across Canada. Currently, she is in presentation of her theatrical multimedia dance piece called THE FOURTH R: reduce, reuse, recycle, Revolutionize. Since the launch, The Fourth R has been shown 40 times; a cross Canada tour (PEI, Halifax, Edmonton), events (Lion’s Club Int., Esperanto Gallery, Swansea studio showing), and a southern Ontario school tour (15 schools, reaching over 5000 students).
Previous work and credits: She has choreographed musical theatre (Shrek, Dora the Explorer, Hair, Seussical the Musical, The Little Mermaid, Fame, Little Women LOT/FirstActProd) and children’s touring theatre (Little Red Theatre). She has choreographed music videos for Juno award winning Splash n’ Boots and with production company Yeah! Films for Canadian bands Seaway and Pin Up. Her work has been shown at festivals like Fever After Dark with Jerome Bobb and Bazaar. She has taught dance, musical theatre and scene study with several different Toronto based companies including York University and Ryerson School of Performance Summer Intensives. Her work with the bold indie theatre company, Echo Productions, has given her the chance to choreograph stories like, Bonnie and Clyde, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, Dog Sees God and Charles Manson: Son of Man. She has performed contracts in Newfoundland, Niagara Falls, Toronto, Yukon Territory and has toured across the United States (Hair National Tour-Starvox Ent.), Europe (Hair European Tour), Maritimes Canada (The Great Big Boo) and South America (Norwegian Cruise Line). In 2018, she launched her independent dance company, Dance Fachin with their premiere work, Worldly Women. Worldly Women is a story about the different kinds of oppression women face around the globe. The show won the prestigious Jury’s Choice Award (Ottawa Fringe) and Patron’s Pick Award (Island Fringe). In early 2019, she performed in the first regional production (since it’s run on Broadway) of An American in Paris with Arizona Broadway Theatre. There she was in the female ensemble, singing, dancing and en pointe. She has been dancing in various music videos with MMEntertainment including Jassa Dhillion’s video PYAR HOGYA which has over 17 million views.
www.dancefachin.com
Instagram: @dancefachin
Tickets to The Fourth R at Edinburgh Fringe: https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-fourth-r-tickets-665219107257
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Transcript
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Phil Rickaby
I’m Phil Rickaby and I’ve been a writer and performer for almost 30 years, but I’ve realised that I don’t really know as much as I should about the theatre scene outside of my particular Toronto bubble. Now, I’m on a quest to learn as much as I can about the theatre scene across Canada. So join me as I talk with mainstream theatre creators, you may have heard of an indie artist you really should know, as we find out just what it takes to be Stageworthy.
If you value the work that I do want Stageworthy please consider leaving a donation either as a one time thing or on a recurring monthly basis. Stageworthy is created entirely by me and I give it to you free of charge with no advertising or other sponsored messages. your continuing support helps me to cover the cost of producing and distributing the show. Just for people donating $5 A month would help me cover the cost of podcast hosting alone. Help me continue to bring you this podcast, you can find a link to donate in the show notes which you can find in your podcast app or the website at stageworthy.ca. Now, onto the show. Emma Bertola Moochie is a choreographer, climate activist and self described eco sexual from Toronto, Canada. She joins me to talk about her theatrical multimedia dance show the Fourth R which is on now at the Edinburgh Fringe. In this conversation, we talked about preparing to present a show at the biggest Fringe Festival in the world, how she uses performance in her climate activism, her dance journey and so much more. Here’s our conversation
Emma Thanks for Thanks for coming on. Tell me about the fourth arm. Just to get started. Let’s jump in and talk about Okay,
Emma Bartolomucci
so this was a project I started in 2020. And it got severely halted because of the pandemic. We were supposed to go to a bunch of fringes that got postponed and later we had to we actually didn’t even end up going to all of them. Anyways, it’s my climate activism really took a deep dive during the lock downs because I was able to stop, like we all had the time to do stop, take a moment and learn more. And so in 2020, the project was from a very artistic lens. And then the pandemic happened. And I was like, oh, no, no, no, this is this isn’t about human consumption consumption. This is about fossil fuels, and governments. And so that’s kind of where the project really took a turn in 2021. And then we were finally able to launch on Earth Day in 2022, which was like, a dream come true to have this project happen on Earth Day. And then the project’s been just kind of going strong ever since. It’s now we’ve gotten up to 48 showings at this point, which I think for an independent self produced work, it’s like, it’s pretty, it’s a good feat. Yeah. We’ve, you know, a few companies have picked this up here and there. We’ve done well in schools. And we’ve done quite a few fringes, and then this summer, we’re kind of gearing up for the mothership of fringes, the Edinburgh Fringe.
Phil Rickaby
Um, just to just to jump back to like that, that 2020 time I’ve been talking with, with my girlfriend a couple of times about how, you know, wasn’t very short, didn’t take very long into that lockdown. When nobody was going out. Nobody was driving around that suddenly, it was very clear that oh, wait, like, all of the driving around. And all the stuff we’re doing is called like, like, you know, I live in downtown Toronto and like looking out the window or standing on the balcony. Suddenly it was like it’s summer, but there’s no A’s interesting, Matt, you know?
Emma Bartolomucci
Yeah. And now the time that we’re in, like, I’m just looking like, I’m looking at the trees and I’m seeing like a haze on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it’s, it’s intense. It’s a really intense feeling.
Phil Rickaby
I find it hard to believe that. I mean, I shouldn’t but you know, the fact that we went through all that and we saw how clean the air was. We saw all of the things that changed the animals. It’s sort of like sort of like coming coming back and like seeing a real resurgence in their populations and things like that. That we could so easily just be like, Oh, just back to back to business as usual. Let’s get the car and driving you to all sorta it’s ridiculous.
Emma Bartolomucci
I know. It’s And it’s insane, it’s insane. I don’t think we really realise the machine that’s just turning a gear in a circular motion, like, we’re just kind of, we’re just repeating the cycles. And it’s, there’s a lot of changemakers out there that want to want to help that and want to alter it and shift gears. That’s really, really, really cool.
Phil Rickaby
And it’s something that happens in like the theatre world too. Like we had this pause. And there was so many discussions about things that we could change all of these, all of these, you know, we could we, you know, all of these theatres made all these statements about for Black Lives Matter and like, changing the way that they were going to cast and behind the scenes and in front of the and on the stages, and all that sort of stuff. And then of course, the everything comes back and the treadmill of production starts up again. And it’s so easy. And you see how things sort of, like, start to just fall back into the old patterns.
Emma Bartolomucci
Exactly. And there was so much fumbling around to and like granted, like we needed, we all needed time to learn. And, you know, I had my kind of racial inequity awakening in 2015, when I was a part of a European production of hair. I got pretty oops, I got pretty warped into, into learning about just how embedded racism really is. And it was interesting to watch because I was with an American cast during that show and I think yeah, I think I think in America they’re dialled into these racial equity issues a little bit more so than Canada especially like a few like five years ago like now Canada’s dialled in with Every Child Matters, but you know, yeah, like, it was just interesting watching all of us try to put out like, mission statements and try to put out anti racism clauses and, and just you seeing what works and what didn’t, what was offensive, what wasn’t like, I’m not gonna I’m not gonna lie, like, it’s been a journey with with because we touch upon racism. And in my show, it’s been a, it’s been a journey with that, too, like a lot of learning and learning, and listening deep, deep listening.
Phil Rickaby
I think that’s the thing that I think is everybody wants to run to the end. It’s like, oh, yes, I want to get to the end where I’m no longer racist. And it’s like, doesn’t this the there’s a lot of things that go and it’s not about like, being anti racist, is about identifying your own racism, even though you don’t like it to be like, Oh, yes, no, yes, I see that. And working to make change. It’s not like, Oh, yes, I realised it, and now we’re no longer races. So now we can make all these changes, you know?
Emma Bartolomucci
Yeah. And I think I think, you know, as an artist, what the, as a, what the pandemic really lended for me, it was just like, a complete ego deaths. Like, wow, to really understand that, like, there are so many, so many issues out there and so many people that live in really harsh conditions. Wow. Like,
Phil Rickaby
I just thought but you know, in the, in the industry itself, like really being able to see the unhealthy patterns that that we have taken on and just accepted as this is normal. This is what you do. Yes,
Emma Bartolomucci
it can be. Exactly It can be a toxic, it can be a toxic industry, unfortunately. And I it’s great to hear. I mean, like so many other industries are right, so many and we’re all working when that happens, but it’s been so great to hear that there’s a lot of changemakers there’s a lot of directors that are taking it into their own hands and making spaces available for everybody and all voices and it’s just I think the future is like looking it’s looking bright and like hopeful for theatre and I don’t know we there’s a lot of possibility I liked was all we can use it for good.
Phil Rickaby
Well, that’s the thing. Let’s see different good not evil, but I think there’s there’s also this, this idea of all these things that are happening out here, these theatres in the states that are like, we can afford to keep going like all of this stuff. That’s that’s, that’s been happening and I’ve I’ve been hearing more and more about people who are have been, like, so positive in the industry. And so like, like movers and shakers, who are starting to be like, I don’t even know if I want to be part of this industry anymore because of the toxicity and stuff and that’s really sad.
Emma Bartolomucci
Yet and still like that’s that’s exactly where I’m at. I’m not gonna lie. Like, I don’t want to be I don’t want to be a downer, but like, Damn like this. I’ve gone through some real tough moments in this industry. And granted like some of them Yeah, I had to learn but some of them were completely unnecessary and ego trips and power trips and trying to make me feel small. And with this work now with the fourth are like, I’ve been dancing for decades. At this point. I know what I’m good at. I know what I’m not good at. And I’m just ready to really like I’m ready to take up space and be disrupted. If with the fourth or because I feel like it’s something that we really the theatre industry, you know, we as as at large and large we need but the theatre industry needs to like, yeah, there’s stainability to be had.
Phil Rickaby
I think that yeah. And I think that the idea of taking up more space, I think that as, as performers, we’re good at doing that when somebody gives us the job, right. But we’re not so good at it when it’s like, you know, standing up for yourself or like, like making making space for yourself, we’re really good at letting somebody else give us some space. Yes. Which is sort of what leads into the toxicity. We define, there needs to be ways to be like, I’m taking this space right now, when I’m doing this thing, which is what fringes are great for. And it’s great when somebody that from the fringe could sort of like expand and grow from that. Yeah, even more opportunities outside of outside of fringe for that kind of thing to happen.
Emma Bartolomucci
Agreed. Agreed. You know, I think there’s there’s a, there’s the next generation coming up is really, that I can see the next generation of theatremakers is really like, we want to build workspaces and an industry is based on care. Yeah, and as a millennial, you know what I mean? Care, like, that’s a big word. And as a millennial who was taught by so many amazing boomers, that also works with so many Gen z’s in my dad’s company, I feel like I’m often like bridging these two, these gaps of trying to, like, old meets new, taking the good from, from what, like the professionalism and like the work ethics that that I’m taught by my elders, and then taking this new wave of thinking of being like, no, there’s, there’s toxicity here. How can we achieve How can we? What’s the word like, get through conflict? How can we solve problems? Yeah, and still be nice to each other, you know, in a creative process,
Phil Rickaby
and it’s so possible is just it, you know, as you know, I’m, I’m an old man. So like, I’m Generation X. So when I went through school, we were called, like, I like jags. Yeah. But like we were, we were certainly at the mercy of like that. Just like, Yes, this is how it is. I suffered through this education, you will, too. And we were like, because you know, that we were Gen X, we’re like, yes. Okay, yes, we will suffer through it, too. And then we see other people behind us. We’re like, Nope, we’re not going to do and we’re like, Yeah, we should we should have said that, too. We Yes, yes. Nobody needs to suffer through that, you know, really, it
Emma Bartolomucci
really is like, do you like all the Gen X’s I know are pretty punk.
Phil Rickaby
This is what I mean. Yes, there’s there’s a punk aesthetic, but then you get into a theatre school, right? And when I was in theatre school, we were like, okay, so you’re going through your first semester, and then the Christmas break happens right before the Christmas break. You’re Oh, like five people got cut from our cat or class. And you’re like, oh, shit, that’s a possibility. And suddenly you spend the rest of your time at school, living in fear of being caught that you will do the wrong thing, say the wrong thing. And that sort of primed a lot of us for going out into the industry. And, you know, being afraid to speak up when we saw something bad because, you know, oh, that I eyes could be. Exactly,
Emma Bartolomucci
exactly. Double is always simple.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah. And I hear about kids now who are like, because their theatre school that I went to hasn’t done cuts in years. And I’m like, see, that’s how it should be. People will self remove themselves if they’re not feeling like they belong in the school, or if they’re not, if it’s not the right place for them. We don’t need to be like, we don’t see a future for you in this industry will cut you because you don’t know that somebody’s like 1819 years old. How can you say that? Yes,
Emma Bartolomucci
totally. I think I love the point that you bring up about like, being shook, like, shocked into the system of it all. Yeah, I think I think at my theatre when I went to school, I was like a big rebel and and like, it had cool moments, but there was awesome some really cool moments as well. But I think the takeaway is that like, we if it were the world moves fast, like it’s your untied, like, let’s let’s revamp things like, let’s make new art. Like let’s make new rules. This isn’t working for us anymore. There’s so much harm here. How Yeah, right. And I mean, there’s always there’s always we’re human, there’s always going to be, we’re going to make mistakes, there’s going to be harm, but that resolution, I think is so important.
Phil Rickaby
It’s how you deal with the fact that that you caused harm, right? Yeah. If you cause harm, and your response is, well, you know what, I was harmed when I was in school, so it’s okay. It’ll just make you stronger. Instead of being like, you know what, you’re right. That’s wrong. And we won’t do like me Making a change. That’s the important thing. Yeah.
Emma Bartolomucci
Because with my younger dancers, like I don’t want them to be traumatised into things like I was, I don’t want that for them. Do I want them to do a good job? And I do I want them to be professional and show up. 100% Hell yeah. But being, like, the fear of it all. I mean, that’s intense. You know, theatre is a pressurised situation, like we’re going on the stage, we have to produce something good. Like, there’s people coming in the doors, they’re coming in watch something like, you know, it’s, I can’t We can’t get around the pressure of it all. But yeah, the fear not for me.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah. And I, you know, you were talking about like, being a bit of a rebel when you went to school. And I was like, yeah, like, within the first year of theatre school, they cut off the rebels, like the real, like, the people who would speak out, it was like, Oh, okay.
Emma Bartolomucci
And I survived, I had a lot of conditions and a lot of probation, I started lives because I, you know, I’m talented. I got to
Phil Rickaby
win. Sometimes you have to fight for your spot, because I was like, I remember when I was in theatre school, you know, every time that that that day came of the Christmas break in the end of the year, they’re like, Well, we’re going to cut you and I would be I would have to claw myself and like, like, fight to stay in the school. And I had to do that every time. So the entire year was spent in fear all three years of the theatre school experience where like, they cut me up every time at any time and and I might not be able to find my way back this time. And that’s no way to make art.
Emma Bartolomucci
No, no, no, no, it’s Let’s be like from a blessing joyful space a Kree that is when I go to the auditions now like, I just like I brought my bra I had an assistant this time for my for my tours this summer and like, just having fun laughing asking what people like and asking you about themselves like this the power dynamics like how can we shift those, you know, because it’s a creative work and everyone’s best people need to be relaxed.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, absolutely. They do. Yeah, yeah, it’s a stressful situation. So you need to relax people for sure. Um, with with this, this, this show of the fourth Are you mentioned you know, the the Fringe Festivals you’ve taken into you just did it hit the Toronto fringe this summer, sort of like, you know, get I guess, you’re getting ready for the mothership. As you because Edinburgh is like a thing, right? It’s like the most intimidating to me is like the most intimidating Fringe Festival on the planet and I get I get nervous thinking about possibly going to Edmonton. So, like, the Edinburgh is big. So was this a plan when you first like, put this show together? Or did it come together this year? And and you’re just embracing it? Or was Edinburgh always a place you want it to go?
Emma Bartolomucci
Okay. I mean, I’m a I’m a touring artist. Even when I was a performer i I’ve most of my career has been international touring. So, touring is particularly enjoyable for me. When you’re self producing a work it’s really it’s hella stressful, but I am getting a lot out of it. I’m learning a lot and I’m, you know, pushing my brand and hopefully pushing in the ecological message. So I’ve done I’ve done Pei fringe Ottawa fringe, Edmonton fringe and Halifax. And it was after Edmonton that someone was like, I think you might be ready for Edinburgh? Yeah, because I’ve been doing I’ve done seven and total, I think six or seven fringes in total at this point. And the vibe in Edmonton. Have you have you been?
Phil Rickaby
I was in Edmonton in 2012. Where the show? Oh, nice. Yeah.
Emma Bartolomucci
I mean, then you could see like, it’s a very festival, festival Street. There’s a hub. There’s food around. Yeah, for outdoor performers. People are like pitching themselves and selling their shows. They’re talking to people in lines. Yeah, really drawing in audiences. And I really thrived in that environment. Like let’s face it, like dance shows at the fringe. Come on, like Yeah, yeah. You know, like, it’s great to do them and to be part of the festival, but they’re never going to do as well as well. They’re not never but in my experience, they haven’t my haven’t done as well as some of the theatre shows. Regardless, though, I felt like in Edmonton, I was able to pull in decent audiences, big audiences. And that was a moment where I was like, if this is if Edinburgh is like selling yourself and handing out flyers and handing out tickets and this and that, like, I could handle it. I’m really nervous. I’m not gonna lie to you. I’m very nervous. But I’m also very excited to be taking this leap. And just to like, invest in myself in this way.
Phil Rickaby
I think there’s something about something about being nervous and it’s you know, It’s a massive month long festival. So it is your See, that’s all right. That’s all right. You are somebody you’re it’s sort of like you know, if you’re faced with the lion it’s smart to be a little afraid of the lion right? You can know how to how to face the lion you can you know how to like deal with the lion, but it’s smart to be scared of it. Right and sort of like the admits that the Edinburgh Fringe is a little bit like that from everything I’ve heard. So as an undertaking, what and what have you done to like, how are you preparing for this, this this massive? Festival?
Emma Bartolomucci
Cool. Yes, totally like marketing, marketing, marketing. I mean, I feel, you know, I liked what you said about being intimidated and being scared, like, that’s healthy, you know, that’s healthy. That’s not to say I’m gonna, like, totally regress and not rise to the challenge, just like stay in my room be like, Oh, that’s too much. I’m gonna I’m gonna, I’m gonna get it like I’m gonna, I’m gonna work really hard. And I’m going to do it. So I’ve been with Edmonton sorry, Edinburgh Fringe like they have like this artists hubs. So I’ve been in touch with them and have been given like a list of like 100 producers that are interested in Danceworks been reaching out to them, setting up comp tickets. Also a big part of the fourth art, what we do is we invite other activists, other green groups to come speak at our event, and hopefully, like, highlighted on their networks as well and like, pull in audiences that way. So we already we’ve been in touch with this Scottish Green Party, because that’s the Canadian Green Party is definitely an affiliate of ours. And we, and other like activist groups, so So we already have a couple confirmed and you know, that’ll be cool. We’re also we’re performing at the jest Festival, which kind of has its own like hub. It’s a it’s a church right downtown on Princes Street, which is like the main street in the Edinburgh Fringe. And they have like their own congregation, their festival is all centred around works to do with human rights. So there’ll be audiences that will come from there. We’ve We’ve printed 1000 Like little flyer cards, to be handing those out. We have our wireless speaker that we’re going to be bringing and gonna be wearing our green suits are, you know, very, these green suits that we have. We’re gonna be wearing those in the streets, and dancing and handing out cards and pulling to blend. What else? I think I think that’s all the marketing stuff. I just gave away all my information. Oh, it’s alright. And we have we have cool social media posts like my, my, my visual designer, luckily, is my partner and he does a lot for me, we have really cool videos, really cool photos. So we’re gonna push those online. We have we have a banner setup, right outside of the fringe like a huge banner. That’s already that’s been up for a couple of weeks outside of the church with our QR code and our photo and like cool, our, you know, our laurels and our quotes from press. So I think I’m, you know, I’m doing the best I can. I’ve already met with a few producers had talked to a couple people that are also in the sustainable space doing arts as well. Set up Zoom’s hear from them. Yeah, yeah, it’s a big undertaking, like I have so much respect for anyone that produces a work and takes it to another city. It’s a huge, like, be proud of yourself. That is epic of you.
Phil Rickaby
It’s massive, its massive. When you’re especially when you’re self like yourself producing like, you’re like, you know, I’ve toured solo, both solo shows and other shows to different cities. You know, the show that I went to Edmonton with it was like a cast of four plus a piano player. So we have like, a thing, you know, but mostly recently, I’ve been touring solo shows. So you know, I performing and, and, and producing. So you have to, like figure out like, how do I manage to be a performer and a producer without letting eat either of those crumble at any point? Yeah, what have you learned about doing that in the past few years?
Emma Bartolomucci
Yeah, I I heard you talking on an episode about this very thing. You don’t you don’t and you’re doing solo works. And you don’t necessarily like postering lines. Is that something is that oh, my
Phil Rickaby
goodness, no, no. Makes me want to vomit.
Emma Bartolomucci
No, it’s pretty stressful. And especially as like with an activist work to like be admitted, oh, my gosh, like, some people Yeah, right. Like some people looked at our poster and was like, No, no way. revolutionised like no, like, there is more aggressive than that. Yes, I’m sure I’m sure they were going to burn oil until the day they die and that kind of thing. But yeah, so So, keeping, like, I, I’m just very privileged to have a lot of energy. Honestly. I work like most, usually 14, anywhere from 12 to 15 hours a day. And I walk my dog, and then I have a cooked dinner. Like, honestly, I’m just, I have a lot of energy, and a lot of space to give to all these different roles I have to play. I do everything. I’m the mark, the publicist, I’m a financial advisor planner, like I’m doing. And so I think it’s just a quick like, switch when I get tired. And those moments, it’s just like, but I’m doing what I really love. Yeah, I’m talking to people. I’m dancing and talking with people about caring for the planet. Like though, like, Southwest fuels me, but I didn’t need a big break after this. To be honest, like, I’ve been going strong for like, two years now. And I’m getting I’m feeling very tired. I can imagine. Yeah, but um, yeah, like our Airbnb will also be on the beach like, so nice, a nice c&d
Phil Rickaby
That’s so important. It’s one of the things that people often forget to do during the festival, or doing it during any festival is to be like, do I need to fly or today? Or do is would it be better for me to take a break? You know?
Emma Bartolomucci
Yeah. Or maybe I can just go an hour before or like, Hey, I’d seen this one show that I think is close to my venue. I’m gonna go to that one instead of trying to hit up like 13.
Phil Rickaby
That’s a lot of shows. Yeah, yeah.
Emma Bartolomucci
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I tend to front load as many of the administrative things as possible before the festival, like, I have a folder full of like promo images that I can slap, like a pull quote on where they quickly and just like, I have those like, so that, you know, if I get a good review, I can take this thing and like put it on, like the social media really quick. So I don’t ever have to worry about that after the fact I could be like, Okay, well, I’ve got these things ready to go. And that for me, that’s one of the stressful things of like, Oh, I didn’t have something ready for, for him like promo during the show. Now I have to scramble and do it. Which is another thing that you don’t need to be doing while you’re like trying to promote the show to people and performing it.
Emma Bartolomucci
No, it’s still you’re exactly right. Like getting as much of that admin done beforehand. Like I truly 64 scheduled emails, it ready to go. Nice, um, that I’m just like, I’m not gonna have to worry, you know. And I killed myself doing those. Yeah, but that was what needed to be done.
Phil Rickaby
But that’s that’s like you killed yourself this week. So you don’t have to worry about it after Exactly. Yeah. I want to take a second. Sorry.
Emma Bartolomucci
Managing your time as a as an artist is so paramount.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, yeah. Something that a lot of us haven’t been good at over the years. See? Right. Right, right. I want to I want to step back and I want to talk a little bit about about your, your your origin story and coming to be a dancer and also to be to be an activist. So let’s start with with with being a dancer. What was your first introduced you to dance or what made you want to do that and choreograph?
Emma Bartolomucci
Yes. So my, my parent, I come from a family of musicians. My dad’s a very talented guitarist, and my late mother was a great singer, a rising pop star in the 80s. And they could tell that when they put on music, I like to move around. So then, then, they put me into dance lessons. And by the age of eight, I was dancing, you know, like 20 hours a week plus. And then, in the mornings before school, I’d have piano practice. And on Monday nights when they didn’t have dance, I’d have singing practice. And then I was a part of the end and then I was a part of the plays and then I was doing acting intensives in the summer, and it was really intense. So yeah, I’m I’m, I’m a triple threat, thanks to my parents. But dancing is just what I think I was best at and we’re just like, really stuck. And then so I went to school and started choreographing quite a bit and fell into choreographing musicals, and then performed some musicals. Because that was a great way to make money as a dancer first. That was a great way to make money. And I enjoyed doing it and then I was part of some great musicals. But then when I turned 29, I did my last show and American in Paris in Arizona, and that was a show where I was just like, You know what, I think I’m, I think I’m done. Like I think I’m done going to small towns for my On some end being around a group of people that you don’t know or have any connection to. And I would rather stay at home, I make more money at home teaching and performing for events and things like that. And I can facilitate like foster better relationships with the people I love here, and not constantly be in and out. So then I decided to open up my company dance fashion, and started making independent works, and have put all my energy into an energy and money into wanting that.
Phil Rickaby
And when did activism start for you?
Emma Bartolomucci
Yeah. So I mean, I was always I, I’ve always cared about nature, ever since I was a child. And I had to really kind of bury my head in the sand when I was touring commercially, because being sustainable just wasn’t, those two ideas were really hard, especially a few years ago, I hope things have changed now. I’m not sure if they have. But even even like, I was a part of hair that’s we protest on stage. There’s always been this like sense of sticking up for what is right, or sticking up for the underdog for me. Or being outspoken. Simply that, and, yeah, so in 2020, when the pandemic happened, I started to attend a lot of protests, and just began to really be fulfilled by that and decided to take my my dance work into an environmental place. So I’m not sure like maybe I don’t wanna put limits on myself, but it’s looking like most of my work will be in an environmental space.
Phil Rickaby
going, yeah, yeah. Now, you mentioned your late mother, who was the original singer of the everyone loves Marineland song, which as a as a child of the 70s. And hearing that pretty much every every night, every day. It’s iconic. But what I didn’t realise in the 70s was how bad marine plant is.
Emma Bartolomucci
shaped. It’s so it’s, it’s Tery bla it’s so bad. He’s thoughtful.
Phil Rickaby
But, you know, now you have that connection through your mother to this, this this thing, this place. And I don’t know if you if you went as a kid and didn’t know how bad it was.
Emma Bartolomucci
Yeah, I don’t think we ever even went Oh, no, no, probably probably was. Yeah, because my mom, my mom was excited. Like, she died when it was six. So he didn’t have like a few, like, a handful of memories of my mother. And murraylands just wasn’t like a big of these one at that time. Like it was more like an exciting jingle that she was a part of. Yeah, we at the Murray lamb after she passed, like the relay commercial would come on. We’d like aggressively turn to turn the TV off. Oh, sure. Yeah, because we hated what they were doing to Wales. And we also she thought they also messed up her contract, or I don’t know the full range of my dad. It was painful for my dad. Like he was just like, No, they’re not a good company. Yeah. So yeah. And then, you know, everyone’s seen Blackfish like, God, God, are we still we still think that’s a good idea.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah. Yeah. But you have this connection to this this place. That’s, that’s, that’s legitimately terrible. And as a climate activist, I wonder about about your thoughts on on the connection and the place?
Emma Bartolomucci
Yeah, I actually am part of a dance residency in Niagara Falls, and I was driving past marine land and you my friend kind of stopped, we were on our way to a beach. And there was protesters out there and I joined them. And I was just told them my story. And I was, you know, we would stop every car that came into our Elan. And there was a lot by the way, I was a little bit shocked to see that. We’d be like, Don’t come here. It’s a sad place. Like don’t like Turn around, turn around. And they would just kind of like frown and, you know, at least we gave them something to think about. But yeah, I don’t know. I mean, it’s a they’re mammals. You know, a crew being on a cruise ship was hard for me. The list. I worked on a cruise ship. And that was there was I remember this day working on a cruise ship. There was 400 whales that beached themselves off of the waters of New Zealand. Wow. Yeah. And they showed footage of it. And I just I was sobbing that day, because I was like, it’s because there’s too many boats in the water and our sonar systems get so messed up, right? Yeah, I’m very sensitive. I’m into the oldest stuff. And like we’re in like, that’s just like one part like my mother who also had like a hit song in the 80s that was like, actually kind of famous and a big dance hit. So the murraylands is just more of like an interesting Like, yeah, tidbit, you know, especially because now I’m a climate activist. So it’s like, it’s kind of it’s almost like, I don’t know. It’s ironic. The right word.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah. Ironic is a great word. Yeah. It’s funny, cuz you mentioned like, you know, marine land is just one. And I remember Canada’s Wonderland used to have a dolphin show, when it first opened in the 80s. They, they got rid of it, but like they had they had a dolphin show and like, it’s a thing that amusement parks did. And it’s, fortunately most of them have stopped. And to be honest, up until, like, maybe two, three years ago, I thought that marine lentic boosts I thought, Oh, finally, we’re rid of that place. But no, there’s still going.
Emma Bartolomucci
There’s like 50 beluga whale there Sienna or something crazy. I know. It’s just like, we want to learn about whales. And there’s so they’re actually integrals to carbon drawdown. It’s just something I was explaining to my students this week. They’re like, we ocean like whales help. carbon in the atmosphere. And I’m like, yeah, like everything in the ocean sucks up carbon. No, I really wish that we would just leave it alone. We need it really bad. We shouldn’t be driving cars. We want to fly planes. Like we really need it, you know?
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Now, interestingly, you’re planning you’re going back to school to, to to get a bachelor’s in environmental studies. Yes. Tell me about about the decision to do that. And how does that jive with your theatrical and dance? endeavours? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Emma Bartolomucci
So when I decided to stop touring, when I was 29, teaching, like teaching has always been a big part of my life. But teaching became like a very, a full, full frontal focus, along with like, performing for events. But teaching is like consistent money and fulfilling work. But there just reached a point, I worked at a school that was unfortunately, like, white nationalist, homophobic, I wouldn’t let me like teach the kids, the things I really wanted to teach that I thought were really valuable. And I just, it turned me off of the whole situation. I just like yeah, I, I not, I don’t want to be teaching in that way anymore. Like, I want to come in and teach about climate change, I want to come into a school and like, do the forethought and like be inspiring, for like, an hour, a couple hours that I’m there for a workshop, but like to be the role model every single day. And to just, you know, it’s just it’s a very intense role that I’m just I’m too tired. I’m too tired to do it. And like performing and, and this this industry is so like, flippant, I’m, like really done with being so flippin and so inconsistent, that I’d love to, like, have a cool environmental job and like, have something stable. And then, like, have the resources and money to like, put into my dance work. Like that sounds like, kind of the next chapter for me. Yeah. So a lot of hard work to get there. Like I have to get the schooling because I’ve been applying to a few like green jobs. So it’s just like, Wait, she was top dancing five years ago. And that’s who wants to be invited environmentalists, like how does this line up? So I really think that it’ll be it’ll be a value to go back to school. And it’ll be more to my work.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. There’s, there’s, you know, I think that a lot of people think about their theatrical career is something like, well, if I’m not doing this full time, then I’m not I can’t be doing it. At a certain point, in this economy, you need to be able to afford things. Right. And, but I think that it has, that a healthier choice is to say, you know, what, I, I can get a job that’s not in theatre, and that can help to fund the theatrical things that I want to do. I think that that kind of balance needs to be found.
Emma Bartolomucci
I’ve like my Okay, so my dad, for example, like he would play lounges in the 80s, he’d made like a full living being a musician fully, and like good money to, like, now as an artist, like, I’ve never thought of myself going back to school, and pursuing a new career as like me losing my artistry now, because I’ve always had to do 1,000,000,001 things to make art happen. So I think the next generation, like not even the next but like, this current generation of artists, just like has a very solid understanding that like we have to do a bunch of things to make it all work. And I just want to be really I want to be fulfilled by all those things. Yeah, you know, teaching is just not doing that for me anymore. And like, the performing thing, it’s just it’s so inconsistent that I’d rather just keep that as extra money. Yeah. Yeah. And I’m also like, I also feel like I have a A good, like, I’m like a smart, I’m smart, like, I want to speak, you know, like, I want to, I want to use that I want to like to hire my ideas and like, learn more. Yeah,
Phil Rickaby
yeah, no, no, it makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense. And I think, you know, people who have been in the arts have always worked like, two three part time jobs and to make ends meet. And so they’re exhausted all the time. Better to work, like a full time job for less hours, ultimately, and be able to afford the things.
Emma Bartolomucci
Yes, this is it. This is like, I’m just the grinding, it’s so unsustainable for me at this point, like, I’m working, I literally work all the time. And I have to, in order to make everything happen in order to make the good money in order to meet you to be able to fund the art in order like, and it’s just it’s not, as I get older, like, I want more for myself, like I don’t have and just be this like Vagabond freelancer, you know, like, and I loved it. I felt like a rock star in my 20s like going from place to place and teaching and performing and level. Like, it was so much fun. But now it’s honestly the glamour of it has totally, it’s not glamorous, it’s not glamorous for me anymore. And it’s like, I need I need. Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no, not for me.
Phil Rickaby
That’s, that’s, I think that’s the, that’s the pattern that often happens, you know, you’re doing it, I will sleep on a couch to make this work. And then, you know, you start to get into your 30s in your, like, the couch hurts my back. And also, I would like a house or a place to live. I would like to not eat like macaroni or ramen or something. So you start to make like, okay, how can I do that? And some people go, Okay, I’m leaving theatre behind. And I will do that. And other people go, I’m finding a balance. So I can do both.
Emma Bartolomucci
Exactly. And that’s where I’m at. I would like to find a balance. Like, obviously, things are going to shift especially while I’m in school have to really focus. But I’m, I’ve been doing I’ve been doing making art since I was a kid like this was, um, it’s not leaving me anytime soon. And yeah, I’m tired. I’m ready to like, I really want it. I want a cabin in the woods. Oh, my God, I want a cabin in the woods so bad. And then I need like a stable, I need like some stability for that to happen. And yeah, so yeah, that’s where my head’s at.
Phil Rickaby
I think it’s I think it’s, I think that more people should realise that they can do both. That, you know, you don’t have to give up everything to keep the career going. And some people do when they’re happy doing it, but it’s not. It’s not the way it has to be.
Emma Bartolomucci
Exactly. And like if you find cool employers or like, you know, if you have good time management skills, there’s always a way to like, juggle around a schedule, you know, like, you’re good at your job, and you’re useful, like those people will help you and take.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, I also find like, as somebody who has a full time job, it’s important from day one, to be like, I work when I am done my workday. I’m done my workday, I’m not putting in extra hours. Don’t let them set that precedent if you’re doing like a day job, because that will eat up the time where you could be writing or creating a new thing or rehearsing or whatever. And that’s how you sort of fall into the well I don’t have time to do that anymore. Because I have this job. You need to be able to compartmentalise the jobs so that you can keep being creative. Wow,
Emma Bartolomucci
cool. I love I love to hear that from you. That’s really inspiring.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, yeah. It’s, it’s, I for years, I thought it wasn’t possible to do both. And for a while I gave up I gave up theatre until I was like, you know, like you said, you’re you’re creating, and you can’t really give it up. It’s something that to give it up. You have to basically like stamp it down and like never touch it out. fade out. And yeah, snuff it out. Never touch that again. I don’t go to see plays anymore. Because it hurts too much. Right? Like, you know, yeah. So, how, you know, you just came out of the Toronto fringe. How was that as a festival you mentioned like, you know, dance can be a weird thing and a Toronto fringe. I think some some cities are a little bit more like, yeah, we’ll see some dance and Toronto can be a little a little bit iffy on the dance. So how did you find that experience as as a dance show?
Emma Bartolomucci
I’m grateful for the Toronto fringe to be given the opportunity to present especially at such like an iconic theatre like Factory Theatre studio. Was it easy? No. I mean, the sheer amount of time that you have to enter the space and to get ready. It was so not conducive for a dance show. One of the dancers hurt their neck on stage. Yeah, because like she you know, like the warmup is it’s just jointed like we had to warm up here. I have a home studio thing, which is really lucky. So we had to warm up here and then we would go to And we set it like it’s, it’s just, it’s, it’s not the way I really want to work going forward, I might have to like, who knows because of opportunities, I might, I might have to continue to do so. But I would really like to have like an hour in the theatre before we begin to Yeah, just to warm up and get centred. And so in that regard, the trough range was a little bit a little bit tough. But man, we had such good turnouts, especially with like, the cross promotion between other activist groups like Greenpeace came and eco justice, which is Canada’s largest environmental law firm came like, there was a lot of great opportunities for that. Yeah, I think, you know, there’s only four dance shows in Toronto fringe. And, yeah, I’m not It’s not lost on me that like, the, the climate justice aspect of my show, makes it a little bit niche. I wish it wasn’t because I feel like this is a message literally for everyone. Yeah, yeah, I think, you know, it was a good experience. It was a good experience. It was it was just it was a little bit difficult at times, for sure.
Phil Rickaby
Do you think that niche though, gives your show a little edge that another another dance show doesn’t have? Because your show has little something extra? It’s not just like, body movement? It’s like body movement with the purpose?
Emma Bartolomucci
Of? Yes. Yes, I would say so. I would say so. And the people, you know, the people that see it, like, everyone, like, I’m never gonna win. I couldn’t, I can’t say never. But I don’t see myself winning an award with this show. My last work worldly women won two awards. I don’t know if this one will. Because there’s so many opinions about this issue. It affects so many people, it affects everybody in in theory, like in a variety of ways. So I get I get so much conversation and we have a talkback after the show, where we have questions and people have dialogues. And people sometimes, you know, they have, they have intense things to say like they want to talk about communism, they want to talk about, you know, they don’t really want to i That’s a whole other conversation. But yeah, the point is, is that a lot of it this work, the fourth art evokes a conversation in people and evoke something. So I don’t think I’m ever going to win. If that makes sense. I don’t ever I don’t think I’m ever going to like, hit it because people are like, well, you need to add this, or did you think about that, or little robot that parter that like, and that’s fine. That’s fine. Because honestly, this this what I’m doing is to spark conversation and rebellion, and backup power. I’m not doing this to win awards. I’m not doing this to be, you know, grandiose, like, I’m literally trying to, like, incite civic or civic action and people.
Phil Rickaby
Interestingly, I think that you know, if people if if a show sparks conversation after the show, and the response to his show is not that it was nice, and people go away and ever think of it again, if people are talking about it, so after the show’s over you that’s a successful show, as far as I’m concerned. If it sticks with people enough for them to have opinions to talk about the show afterwards, then that’s a show that has meaning and has affected people in a way that’s really important.
Emma Bartolomucci
Thank you. Thank you i Yeah, we achieved that you know, even the schools the kids have lots to say though there was a there was a person a fellow artists that saw the show and was like this was honestly the best show I’ve ever seen. And she was like I don’t know why it’s on a on a mainstage at the fringe. And I’m like I don’t know either. But thank you thank you for that feedback, you know
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, yeah. So as you head forward into the Edinburgh Fringe when this airs the Edinburgh Fringe will be on you will be in the thick of it how do you feel right now? When do you leave what’s the what’s the what’s what’s the what’s the state of the fourth are right now
Emma Bartolomucci
we’re in a good place. We have a new cast coming in this is there’s been so many casts I think I’ve like taught this shows 13 times at this point. But we’re in a good place. We’re ready to go. We’re feeling good. We know what’s ahead. I’m leaving a little bit before the cast arrives. And yeah, for one of the dancers it’ll be like their very first like they just graduated in May. And yeah, so that this is like what a thing to do after you’ve just been graduated. So I feeling good again, I’m super nervous but so i Let’s go let’s let’s see some I’m also ready to go see some stuff like I want to Good works like I’m ready. Yeah, get in. I’m ready to have the fourth or be seen and absorbed and like, I’d been I’d be lying if I said that you want this to progress into something else?
Phil Rickaby
Sure. Sure. I mean, that’s what Edinburgh is for. The world goes to the Edinburgh Fringe. So, like that’s what it’s for.
Emma Bartolomucci
Let’s see. Let’s see. Yeah. Again, like you said, it’s nice. It’s Yes. So that could be a good thing. That could also be a deterrent, we’ll see.
Phil Rickaby
But you know, it’s sort of like what is it? What is it from from title of show? I’d rather be nine people’s favourite thing than 100 people hundreds 100 people is my favourite thing like, niche candidate niche can be a good thing. Right? Because it brings in the people who are motivated, see it?
Emma Bartolomucci
Okay, cool. I’m gonna hold on to that.
Phil Rickaby
Well, Emma, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate your time and have a great Edinburgh Fringe.
Emma Bartolomucci
Thank you so much, Val. I really appreciate it. This was such a cool conversation.
Phil Rickaby
This has been an episode of Stageworthy Stageworthy is produced, hosted and edited by Phil Rickaby. That’s me. If you enjoyed this podcast and you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify, you can leave a five star rating. And if you’re listening on Apple podcast, you can also leave a review those reviews and ratings helps new people find the show. If you want to keep up with what’s going on with Stageworthy and my other projects, you can subscribe to my newsletter by going to philrickaby.com/subscribe. And remember, if you want to leave a tip, you’ll find a link to the virtual tip jar in the show notes or on the website. You can find Stageworthy on Twitter and Instagram at stageworthypod. And you can find the website but the complete archive of all episodes at stageworthy.ca. If you want to find me, you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at PhilRickaby. And as I mentioned, my website is philrickaby.com See you next week for another episode of Stageworthy