#375 – Lindsey Middleton & Kathleen Welch

Lindsey Middleton is a Canadian Screen Award nominee. Lindsey is best known for playing Vanessa and co-producing the internationally award-winning web series, Out With Dad, where she won two Indie Series Awards for Best Supporting Actress, and a IAWTV Award for Best Female Performance in a Drama. Lindsey has toured theatre across Canada and Europe and performed in over 50 productions. As a writer, Lindsey is one of the co-creators of the Roku Channel show Just Hysterics, a collective of female-forward comedy sketches, that has been recognized at both Stareable Fest and TO WebFest. Lindsey also co-wrote Unmute and I Love You and It Hurts with Theatre of the Beat; both pieces were commissioned by Women’s Crisis Services of Waterloo Region and her first play Session which premiered at the Paprika Festival. Lindsey is currently writing a new TV show all about her days showing cows at local fairs as well as writing her first novel about her travels to over 30 countries before turning 30. Lindsey is a 2023 Halls Island Artist Residency Recipient.As a director, Lindsey has Associate Directed the sold out run of Legally Blonde: The Musical for Hart House Theatre, and Pippin for Theatre Sheridan. Lindsey produced and directed Best Kept Secret, the 400 person immersive event that marked the grand opening for the Anndore Hotel in downtown Toronto.

lindseymiddleton.ca
Instagram: @lalalindseym

Kathleen Welch is a director, performer, and writer based here in Toronto. She is thrilled to be working with such an incredible team to bring this strange and beautiful play to life. Recently, Kathleen has been working on SAMCA, a play which she co-wrote, composed the music for, and acts in. This project is ongoing and she is looking forward to bringing it to Toronto audiences soon. Kathleen’s favourite past directing credits include The Anger in Ernest and Ernestine and 12 Angry Jurors. She is also currently writing a new play, Bluebeard’s Wives.

Instagram: @kathleen.welch

Suddenly Last Summer

Riot King is back with another exciting, site-specific production! Don’t miss the limited run of ‘Suddenly Last Summer’ by Tennessee Williams presented at Sorry Studios. Named one of Williams’ most poetic plays, ‘Suddenly Last Summer’ is a strange and unnerving Southern Gothic play that explores mental health, repressed desires, and the lengths a dysfunctional family will go to keep dark secrets hidden. Williams’ play uncovers the frightening and disturbing realities that can hide behind what is seemingly beautiful.

Tickets and Info: www.riotking.com/suddenly-last-summer
Twitter: @riotkingto
Instagram: @riotkingto

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Transcript

Transcript auto generated. 

Phil Rickaby
I’m Phil Rickaby and I’ve been a writer and performer for almost 30 years, but I’ve realised that I don’t really know as much as I should about the theatre scene outside of my particular Toronto bubble.

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Lindsey Middleton is an award winning actor, writer and creator. She will be playing Catherine in right kings upcoming production of suddenly last summer by Tennessee Williams. Kathleen Welch is a director, performer and writer and the director of suddenly last summer. In this conversation, we talked about the play performing in front of an audience for the first time since the pandemic writing and so much more. Here’s our conversation.

Lindsey, Kathleen, thank you so much for joining me. Would one of you like to tell me Give me like the elevator pitch for suddenly last summer?

Kathleen Welch
Sure. I will. So suddenly last summer, it’s a one out Tennessee Williams play that it is sort of this Southern Gothic kind of unsettling family drama is how I would describe it. It’s, it’s all set in and amongst this got this outdoor garden. And as the plan unfolds, the audience sort of discovers the kind of deep inner secrets of this very distorted kind of family dynamics and the sort of horrible things underneath this kind of beautiful exterior.

Phil Rickaby
Bits of like it’s a little up your alley, given the Sam Cooke connection, all that sort of stuff, you sort of seem to be drawn to these darker themes.

Kathleen Welch
Yeah, absolutely. Like this play is it’s not a horror play by any means. But it certainly delves in, in a kind of horrific way. The the text is so beautiful, and it’s very poetic. But it it it deals with furrific things that happen to multiple characters in the play. And it definitely it it is meant to unsettle I think

Phil Rickaby
what the I mean I think a lot of times when we think about Tennessee Williams we think about Cat on a Hot Tin rolls we say think about specific things. We don’t tend to think about unsettling plays although I do think that that’s a theme of his what what is it that sets this apart from other plays by Tennessee Williams that people might be more familiar with?

Kathleen Welch
Um, I think it’s more that It delves further with it. I love other Tennessee Williams plays and like A Streetcar Named Desire of done twice. And I think it deals with those things. It’s just, it’s a bigger scale play and it has other elements as well, where this one is kind of intimate and really, really focuses on sort of the most disturbing parts. Yeah, it has a lot to do with mental health as well as sort of horrific older medical practices that went on at that time. And all of those things kind of do exist in the other bigger Tennessee Williams play plays out Um, but I think this one, this one just takes it that much further. And that’s really, really the focus.

Phil Rickaby
Yeah. Yeah. No, Lindsey, what is first of what is your role in this play?

Lindsey Middleton
Yes. So I am playing Catherine Holly, which was played by Elizabeth Taylor back in the day. So hashtag no pressure, I

Phil Rickaby
was about to say no pressure at all. Update,

Lindsey Middleton
no pressure, I have not watched the movie, we have decided as a cast, we might watch the movie at like a rap party kind of thing. I don’t think anyone’s watching it currently, maybe people have watched in the past. But anyway, I play. I play a character that kind of knows the truth, to this big secret that this family is trying to get locked down. Or she knows her version of the truth. Because as we’ve discussed a lot in this show. And in rehearsals, there’s a lot of different versions of the truth. And I think a really exciting thing for the audience is you get to sit back and kind of decide who is telling the truth. You want to be telling the truth? It’s there’s some ambiguity within all these stories and all these connections and who’s using who, for what, manipulating what to get what and all these characters have set clear objectives. And mine is just telling the truth. And even though she doesn’t want to it kind of overpowers her body in a way. Not so she has some assistance through some other means to get the truth out.

Phil Rickaby
Truth can be an agent of chaos, though sometimes candidate.

Lindsey Middleton
Oh, heck yeah. He is a full agent of chaos. Yeah, see his there’s a lot of chaotic people in this play by there are a lot of means that other characters are going. I’m using to silence her. So I think she might win for most chaotic.

Phil Rickaby
What is it that draws you to this play? Lindsey, what appeals to you,

Lindsey Middleton
I have always wanted to do a Tennessee Williams Show I’ve never done one. So a that as soon as we read this play back in the cold, cold, frigid February when everything seemed so quiet and simple. Back in the day, and now it’s it’s here, which is very exciting. So that and then this character is undoubtedly the most challenging character I’ve ever worked on. She has been through the most horrific, unimaginable things. I that I would never wish on any person. So diving into the trauma, and the stakes for this character is challenging. It’s difficult. It’s intimidating. And that’s really exciting to me, I woke up yesterday. And my very first thought was, I cannot wait to go to rehearsal. Because we’re unravelling this mystery of everyone. And everyone’s motivations. So it’s just it’s really exciting.

Phil Rickaby
One of the things that is always fascinating about about a play is is the way that it’s chosen to be staged. And there’s a transformation of this space that you guys are performing in. Cathleen, do you want to talk about about the space and what’s happening with this space for this show.

Kathleen Welch
Yeah, absolutely. So when we were initially planning on doing this, I always sort of envisioned the idea of of using a lot of natural light, and it’s all takes place sort of in this garden, but on a patio and somewhere in between being fully outside and being inside a house. So when Brennan and I who’s producing this, were looking around for spaces, I was really looking for non traditional theatre spaces just because most theatre spaces don’t want to let another light you want to control all the light that you have. And I kind of wanted the feeling of, you know, the audience as well as the actors being inside, almost a greenhouse kind of feeling. So we went visited a bunch of spaces, but we ended up discovering this photography studio, which they’ve never had anything theatrical happening there before and they seemed really excited about it as well. And it’s got such beautiful natural light which they use for photography. So we’re able to, you know, bring our plants in, they have windows and actual glass door that leads up to a real garden so the actors can enter through this garden. And we can have this sort of liminal space in between being inside and being outside. And because it’s in it’s being performed in August we even the evening shows the start at seven we should have a lot of natural you know sunlight throughout all of our perform minces, which I’m really excited for, we’re going to enhance with some other lights in the space as well. But yeah, I’m very excited for that.

Phil Rickaby
I was going to say you could only ever get that in at this time of year. So, yeah, winter would be something entirely different.

Kathleen Welch
Now the play doesn’t suit it when we initially wanted to do it. I was like, if we can’t have time this summer, we have to wait for next summer. It’s just a very hot play. And ask doesn’t work in the winter.

Phil Rickaby
It’s so weird to think about because, you know, I’ve been in New Orleans. I’ve been in New Orleans in October, and I thought it was one of the hottest places I ever was. So it’s hard to imagine, like coming in from the cold in January or February, and like, having to pretend Oh, yes, it’s so hot here. Just even for your audience members. So definitely a summer play. Now, Kathleen, I’m wondering about, you know, you’ve been involved with with with, with, with Sam CO, which we talked about last year, which is a horror play this play is a little darker. As a director, what what kind of themes? does this play into themes that you are generally a drawn to? And and what is it that particularly sparks you about about directing this play?

Kathleen Welch
Yeah. No, I’ve loved this play for a long time. I discovered it when I was in high school. And I just loved it. And I thought it was so weird and bizarre. And I think, like when we talked about Sam, because Emka is a more extreme version, where it’s taking things that are real experiences people have, but taking them to a folktale fairy tale horror level, this play, also, in some ways does that because it’s, it is a family drama, and it’s real things that sort of happen to people, but it’s, it’s magnified, to an extent that is almost almost surreal. And the garden is kind of part of that it. Like the stage directions when we were reading through it the first time, they’re beautiful, but they’re so extreme of the idea of these, like plants that are eating things, these carnivorous plants and sounds of the jungle, are, are there. And for a lot of these characters, their their sense of reality is very warped. And so they kind of enter into this dream world. Like Lindsey’s character, definitely, specifically, but but all of them change their own realities. And they view the world through through a very kind of terrifying lens. And for me, as a director, and and as a writer, and actor, in general, I love putting on plays like this, because I honestly don’t, I don’t know fully what I feel about it, like I finished this play. And I don’t know what he’s trying to say other than this, need to get it, get these dark herbal things out there. And I think that’s really exciting as a director and sharing the thoughts of the cast on it, like just talking through how different everyone’s perspective is, because it’s really not cut and dry.

Phil Rickaby
There’s certainly something about not particularly knowing for sure what a play is saying that can be ripe for these great conversations. During rehearsal after the show. It’s kind of exciting to have that possibility where you’re not spoon fed, what it’s quote unquote, about. Lindsey, I’m worried that we’re talking a little bit about the heat. And we’re talking about how people come in with this particular sense. particularly hot and humid weather, which is something you would get in say, New Orleans can really have an effect on on on the way that you see the world and the way the that you interact with other people. You can fray the edges of your patients. How does that play into the way that you’re portraying this character and how does it affect how you relate to people?

Lindsey Middleton
It’s so interesting. You just said right on the edges of your patience and in this show, there is a doctor, I am his patient and I am fraying my edges and all the characters I would say in the show are slowly we’re watching majority of them on Ravel and there’s a lot of you know, we come from wealth. This is a very wealthy family and there is a lot to cover up there are a lot of different spaces there is a veneer that is put on top of everything and it all starts to just unravel and the heat is definitely part of that. I mean you Just lose herself. And it’s sometimes these hot days we’ve been having this last few weeks, I was just in a heatwave not that long ago in Europe, and you just kind of lose it. And I think that just adds to the energy of everyone on the stage feeling what’s happening, and even the audience as well, we’re actually going to have fans for sale, so that everyone can join in into the garden party, and just be there with us. And and the whole space transforms the audience experience, the whole way through is going to be very exciting and living in that garden party opening night as a garden party fails. Oh, really? Yes, we hope you and everyone comes.

Phil Rickaby
Of course, of course. Now, the audience is going to be surrounded by the garden and the garden party. And that’s, that’s something that I think that that we get a lot in, in theatre, usually, the the set in this setting sort of stops at the edge of the proceedings, or the playing space. But this is something something more than that. And that sounds like it’s going to affect both the way that well, most of the way that the audience interacts with it, because they’re sitting in it is that that’s obviously something you’re going for. And but what excites you about that?

Kathleen Welch
Yeah, something certainly, Brendan, who is our producer, and he’s the founder of right king of stuff that really matters to him, I know is, is having that kind of immersive and multi level experience. That’s not just one kind of art form. So for instance, for us, like an important and important part was also utilising artists that we could bring into the space that sort of also feed that feeling. So we have three artists, I believe, and a florist coming in for opening night, which we’re very excited about, this should be like selling new keys, and they’re all inspired by the sort of plant life that it in the idea that the whole experience, when they’re watching the play is one thing, but when you come into the space to begin with, and you’re able to chat to other people and be a part of this sort of, again, garden party kind of aesthetic and transforming that, beyond what is just the confines of the play.

Phil Rickaby
Yeah, and this only has like a week’s run, right? This is only available for people to see for a week. So. And I imagine given a space like this, there’s a scarcity of seating. So if people want to see something like this, they should probably get their tickets soon.

Kathleen Welch
Yeah, we only can maybe fit about 40 people per show. So Wow. Yes, we’re definitely encouraging people to lie early, especially if there’s, you know, only one or two performances you can attend.

Phil Rickaby
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Yeah. Now, it’s been a while, since people have felt comfortable being on the stage or have been out able to be on the stage. Lindsey, I know, this is like your, this is your first time being back on stage in like the three years of the pandemic. So do you? Do you? Have you felt a little rusty about the acting like it’s taking like a little bit more to get the acting like muscle back?

Lindsey Middleton
It’s so interesting. So yeah, march 12 2020. I was doing a tour and I was on stage that morning. And then in the afternoon, we got a message saying, hey, Ron Claus for two weeks, and that tour never resumed. And then I was supposed to tour another show in the summer and that tour, awesome. That should have never even happened. So I haven’t yet not set foot on a stage to perform. I’ve done some zoom stuff. But this was my first jump back into something that I used to do three shows a year sometimes for something like something that was a muscle that I knew how to work so well. So I was definitely curious of how quickly does this come back? And I think number one, I’m just enjoying it so much more. I don’t know what it is. Just it’s so exciting. Perhaps because it’s been so long. I’m finding memorization isn’t as easy as he used to be, I think because if you’re used to learning big scripts, maybe it’s just Tennessee like, oh, it’s not. Maybe it’s this character. She’s a bunch of kinda. Her brain has been through a lot and there’s a lot of non sequiturs happening. So after this my whole evening is just going through an eight page monologue and I try to make myself lesson in all because yeah, that’s the first thing is be as nice I like to just get the text in my body in my body in my body as quickly as possible. And then you can just start playing with it. And just you have so much more time to discover then. So yeah, it’s been a very enjoyable return with a tinge of fear when it

Kathleen Welch
comes to but with all these

Phil Rickaby
lines, yeah, yeah, I remember last year, I did a solo show at the Fringe Festival in St. St. John, New Brunswick. And I have to say that, that I also found learning lines. incredibly difficult after like, three years away from it. I struggled almost halfway through my run to actually be like, Okay, I’ve got this, I’ve got this. So it’s, this is the thing, it’s a thing. But it felt like the first time I was in front of an audience, it felt weird, but also good, but weird, you know,

Lindsey Middleton
I cannot wait for that first. Audience show took feel. Just them like that is my favourite thing as a performer when you either feel like you have them or you don’t have them, and you have to get them back. And it’s that energy between all of them and hearing them realise certain things at different times, like the liveness of theatre I have missed so much. And I cannot wait to fill that space and see those fans, and just have everyone going on this journey with us.

Phil Rickaby
Now, Kathleen, this is you were on stage more recently, with Sabka. Right? And other things, too. Yes.

Kathleen Welch
Yeah, I’ve been but probably about a year ago, I was sort of going through the same thing of, you know, it’d been so long since I’ve done any any stage show. And I would have again, been like in the I think it was in rehearsals for a show when the pandemic happened. And I was doing stuff all the time, like too busy. So then when I was able to come back, last year, it was a whole site. very thrilling, and nerve wracking, but like, kind of relieving, in some ways, transition back into it. And even more than being in front of an audience being in a rehearsal space, I know is like the most beautiful thing. We did a workshop a week workshop, in March last year, and it was just coming out of like, I hadn’t seen anyone, and just rehearsing with other amazing artists and hearing their opinions on things was just something I didn’t realise that I missed so much, and getting to explore in this space. So yeah, that was a beautiful thing. And this is, as well, it’s been a lot longer since I’ve directed anything. So in some ways it was it was more stressful, but very exciting to go back into it.

Phil Rickaby
It’s amazing the things you don’t realise that you’re going to miss that you could possibly miss. Right? Like suddenly your your rehearsal and performing is a thing that you do every day, and then all of a sudden, it’s gone. And you don’t realise all of the things that go into it that were so important to you. For each of you, when you were tell me about the first time in the rehearsal hall, with other people, what was what was that like returning to that room?

Kathleen Welch
Yeah, I’ll start and then so our first rehearsal, because we started only last last week, I thought that we only started last week, and we’d had a Zoom reading online. But it was in the middle of fringe, and two of our actors were in fringe shows, which we knew would be an issue. So normally, I would, you know, want our first rehearsal to be with everyone. But we couldn’t do that. And so we just focused on one scene that’s between Lindsey and one other of our other actors jobina. And it was so beautiful and sort of soft, and, and easy. I felt like it was a kind of nice way to go in. And it took the pressure of a full, full past rehearsal. And instead, we started with arguably, like the nicest scene in it, which is not saying much, because they’re all really rough. But it was just beautiful. We we read through it, and we and we talked through her thoughts about it and, and brought it up on its feet. And it was it was also much simpler than I think my stress leading up to it was and it all Yeah, that’s that’s what I would say. Nice, Lindsey.

Lindsey Middleton
I think for me, we walked in I said something to Kathleen, along the lines of I don’t get it that I don’t get what’s going on. I don’t know. I like all my own internal anxieties and things. And then yeah, having the beauty of like, I guess not your traditional rehearsals start where you get everyone in the room and you have that moment it was just to Bina and I and in this weird way jobina is a bit of like, she’s my ally, I would say on stage. So to kind of have My first time back on my feet in a rehearsal hall. And it’s a scene where I’m building a relationship with Ally, I think in this weird art depicting life kind of way was the best way I could have gone back into any rehearsal room. And it just made everything so clear. I remember looking at Kathleen at the end of the show, and I was like, Oh, I get it now. It was like, I just had to get back into the room, and have clarity, and show all these other things and be like, oh, yeah, I see it. It’s there. Now. I’m good. I’m good to go now. So it was fantastic. It was a great, great first rehearsal. That’s good.

Phil Rickaby
That’s great. That’s great. Um, I want to drift a little way a bit away from from this particular play and talk to you both about about yourselves as as as performers as artists. Lindsey, one of the things I wanted to talk to you about was something that’s probably not related to theatre, but I think it’s pretty interesting. Your your van life, he and your your trip through South America.

Lindsey Middleton
Yeah. Yeah. So I’m a big traveller. I got on my first plane when I was 16. And I promised myself I would get on a plane every year, once a year for the rest of my life. And I currently have maintained that life goal, which I’m very proud of, even in the madness of 2020. I luckily had a trip booked in January before, we kind of really knew like everything that was happening. And then in 2021, it was kind of when everything looked more open and things like that. So I don’t know, I somehow managed to still maintain this. But yeah, during a lot. I’ve taken a lot of time away from Cedar because I decided to go do a lot more extensive travelling. I lived in a van for three and a half months. I’m with now my ex boyfriend, but we had a great time and I will never disparage him. We had a great time, we did not break up because we lived in tiny, bad. Our lives are different places. But yes, it was amazing. We, I learned how to rock climb when I lived in a van. And it was just opened a whole new beautiful part of my life. And then when I was living in the van, I very quickly had this weird moment where I was like, I need to move to Mexico. I just need to go do that. And I need to go write a book. All about all these travels I’ve gone on and because a big goal in my life was also to go to 30 countries before I turned 30 Which I did. And then I’ve constantly had people in my Kathleen Yeah, I did. I’ve constantly had people in my life, say how did you do that? How did you do that? Because I’ve funded every single trip by myself. It’s all from just me wanting to go do it. And I kind of got to a point of being like, you know what, enough people have asked me this, maybe it’s worth revisiting all my travels and writing a book about it. And also just encouraging people to go do it too. Because I do think you can go to if that is what you want to go do. I strongly encourage you, I think it is the best education, quote unquote, Mark Twain. But it is, I think the best thing you can do, especially by yourself. So yeah, I took three months in a van and immediately went to Mexico, Guatemala, South America for seven months by myself, which was an amazing learning experience. And I can speak a lot more Spanish than I could a few years ago.

Phil Rickaby
How much Spanish Did you know before you embarked on the journey?

Lindsey Middleton
So fun fact, during the pandemic, I promised myself as soon as I could, I would move to Mexico. So I currently have a 600 and something day streak on Duolingo. Oh, because I lost my 400 Day streak when I was living in the man in the mountains. So I should have like, I don’t know, 1000 day streak at this point. So I knew very little and now I can eavesdrop pretty well on people is that

Phil Rickaby
the most important skill though, with the language is not know where you can say not like, where’s the bathroom? But yeah, eavesdropping on conversations,

Lindsey Middleton
get the gossip. Now, that’s, that’s what I basically use it for.

Phil Rickaby
That’s important stuff. That’s important stuff. And you know, the trip that like decided to write the book. Had you wanted to write a book before you did that? Or was it just like, Well, I gotta get this information out.

Lindsey Middleton
So I have a bucket list that I started when I was I think eight years old. And I found my little diary during the pandemic of my bucket list and I had written like 18 things I was happy to say I was able to cross I think half of them off and one of those things was write a book. So I think it’s all these things that for me because the pandemic was like rehab for workaholics. I had a lot of spare time to kind of, you know, read old journals and things that things I never do. And I think that seed was planted. And then we I did this seven day hike when we lived in the van. So I had no phone that function for seven days because there was no service. So my brain, I could literally feel my brain growing as I was doing this walk, because I wasn’t glued to my phone or checking emails or things like that. And all of a sudden, one day I realised as I was walking that I was just writing the book in my head. And then I was like, Oh, this is why I need to go to Mexico. This is the like, it was kind of like just all these connected dots. And then yeah, I went and the book is still being written. Fun fact, it takes a very long time to write a book.

Phil Rickaby
This is this is the fact Yes, yeah.

Lindsey Middleton
I am very, you know, gusto with a lot of things, which is great, especially in this industry. And I thought I could write a book in three months. And let me tell you, it’s been a year and a half. And I have almost 400 pages. And I am very close to having all my pages written. I’m going on a writer’s retreat in September. I’m very grateful for him being shuttled up to the woods for 10 days to start editing this bad boy. So yeah, things, things, there will be a book.

Phil Rickaby
You know, you’re talking about that hike, where you didn’t have access to your phone. And the first thing that occurred to me is, is how important boredom actually is. For the imagination. I remember reading that Neil Gaiman has like this little shack by the by the water that he writes at. And when he goes, he doesn’t take his phone, he makes himself two promises, he can do one of two things he can write or he can look at the water. And those are the only two things that he can do. And that kind of boredom frees up the mind, which is almost always occupied by I don’t know, tick tock is really alluring. And takes up a lot of time to frees up the mind for like everything, like the imagination and clear space. Was that that hit you like a tonne of bricks while you were on that hike? How much space the phone takes up.

Lindsey Middleton
It was it’s something I still say to people. It’s like it. It was walking, it was walking, I walked for seven days, which is bananas. But I do tend to attend recommend, but I think the biggest thing was just how all I focused on was surviving, like feeding myself, setting up the tent, taking down the tent, walking 25k feeding myself that you might like, and then all this extra space where I could just think and wonder. And yeah, it’s revolutionary to spend a bunch of time without your telephone. And also you then realise when you come back to it immediately want to turn it on. I just felt so much anxiety. And I was like, oh, that’s, that’s very good to caulk. Interesting. Yeah, just people needing you or are wanting you and your response to that. And yeah, I can’t recommend enough like, just this past Family Day weekend, I put my phone on aeroplane mode for the whole weekend. Love My Mom, I told my boss, and I was like, and I told my best friend. I was like anyone else can wait three days. I just need three days to get bored again to like let the brain go. And I wrote a tonne. That nice round. Yes.

Phil Rickaby
Speaking of writing, Kathleen, you know you you were your co writer on Samco. And I know how much you’d like to get involved in like all aspects of his show. But you currently working on on on a noose, a new project called Blue beards wives. I don’t know if we talked about that last time. But I’m curious if we did where you’re at with it and give a little What, what’s that? What’s this? What’s this little piece about?

Kathleen Welch
Yeah. Well, just going off of what Lindsey just said. It’s amazing how hard it is to write and do things when you’re so busy. So I know the last I can’t remember I might have just been thinking about the idea of the last time that we talked but I don’t think I would have written anything for it yet. But yeah, like Samco was written in the heart of the pandemic. And partially because of that, because of all this sort of free time. And I certainly would have been distracted with my bone at certain times. But I know I I went to like my cottage and wrote a tonne there and it’s just that kind of space away from work and like a whole bunch of other responsibilities made it so I was was able, both me and Natalia were able to write that play was kind of because of the pandemic. So something I’m noticing I’m still I’m very excited about the projects that I’m working on bluebirds wives, which is is with would be with spindle collective, which is Natalia. It’s more folklore again, and I would be I’m writing some music for it I’ve written for or the music so far? But yes, it’s it’s been a slower process than I hope. Um, I’ve still made a lot of progress in it, but it’s just trying to go okay, well, you can’t do everything you are working, and you are directing the show. And when, when I can write, and I get that time or, again, I find it a lot easier, I cannot seem to write in my own house very well. In my own home, I am distracted by everything. And I can’t get any writing done. So I have to get out and be at a bar or a cafe. But best of all, if I can get like out of the city, so actually mean Lindsey, were talking about that writer’s retreat, because I was like, Oh, I got to kind of apply for things like that, because I just think it’s so much easier to just get some space from your life. Even when you think you’re not in a really stressful time, there are sort of constant demands of emails you need to respond to, and things in your work, your friendship, and your artistic stuff that are always getting in the way. So I am excited about this new project. And I have quite a bit written. But I’m trying to not being too hard on myself, and how much I can feasibly get done working all the time and directing shows and doing various things. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby
Are there true for this is for either of you? Are there tricks that you’ve come up with? As far as like? What are your are doing all of these things to find time to write in a day? Or is it just not possible sometimes to do like, find that time to, to write something?

Kathleen Welch
I think for myself, I sometimes I can go okay, I’m gonna plan I know, I have this day off. I know I did it on my birthday. Last year, it was like, on your birthday, I’m not working, I’m going to a gap. And I’m getting fancy little drinks, and I’m writing all day. So sometimes it can work when like, I know that I have some time off. Other times, I think I can’t force it too much. Because you want you might want to and be like, Oh, I have this evening off. I could go right. But you’re actually kind of burned out. And without that space in front of it. Sometimes it’s just going, I really feel like writing go and do it. Now then, when I get this in.

Lindsey Middleton
I am a morning writer. And it’s it’s a doozy it is because I went to Mexico. And I basically was like, I don’t know anyone I now live in this apartment. What I really got to know myself and like what I want to do. And I have the most energy in the morning. And the clearest because your phone has yet to buzz 1000 times. So I just kind of established this routine where I would wake up and I would just go right into cafe. And that was kind of how I would start my day. And then once I came home, I was like, Oh, hey, life, why Brad, won’t you. And so now I just try, I try so hard to get up very early. And before again, the phone is buzzing and things are happening. I sit in the chair right beside me with my windows and a phone on aeroplane mode or do not disturb. And I just try and write I try every day, it does not happen. But if I kind of hold myself to this appointment or this date with myself, and even if it’s just me reading old journals, and just sitting there, it’s this idea of like, No, I have an appointment like I need to show up for it. I’m investing time in this time is money like I am investing to be here right now in in my own art, which has been a journey. I think it wasn’t until my 30s where I was like, oh, what I want to do as an artist, like I’m so keen to jump on other people’s things, and support it and be a part of it. But it wasn’t until the pandemic when I was like, hey, who am I just as a single person, and what’s my voice? And what’s my art? And what’s important to me. And this book has been one like, big exciting thing for me in that. So yeah, that’s kind of my, my practice. I’m a very disciplined human. And Jen,

Kathleen Welch
I am very impressed with Lindsey, I want to be definitely not that I definitely

Phil Rickaby
want to come back to to that lesson that you learned about about who you are and what you want to be as an artist. Two things that I wanted to say was about how you know, you could sit you make that appointment, you could sit and you’re staring at the page or the computer. And as long as you that’s your concentration, I consider that that’s that success whether you wrote and, or whether you wrote a whole bunch. You were there and the brain was focused on it. That’s I think that’s a triumph for sure.

Lindsey Middleton
It’s like what you’re saying about going to the cottage without your phone and either looking at the water or writing. It’s kind of that thing of I look at the page, and I also get bored within seconds. So it’s kind of like well, yeah, I’m like now let’s just tie like now I’m looking at the page.

Phil Rickaby
i The other thing I want to point out is that when you You said that, that you wake up early in the morning. And that’s when you’re your most, your most clear, Kathleen had the most visceral physical reaction to that. And it’s that I assume, Kathleen, that you are not a morning person.

Kathleen Welch
I’m not a morning person at all. I am very much a late night person. If I didn’t have to get up in the morning, I never would. And that’s what I discovered during the pandemic as well i. At that time, I lived with Brendan, our producer, and we both went into our natural schedules. And Brendan’s, it meant that we each had like six hours to ourselves in the apartment, because Brenda would wake up at like 6am and do yoga, and like, have a whole morning, and then I would get up at noon. And then we might hang out, sometimes you could watch a movie in the evening, he’d go to bed at like 10. And I’d go to bed at four. And that was how we settled in. So I can’t maintain that, Billy, because I do have things that I have to do in the morning. But my creative brain is nighttime. And like it takes me a while to wake up. So I can do some afternoon writing in a cafe. But I’m a bar writer, I like night. And I tend to compose music at night too, which is problematic depending on who you’re living with. And but yeah, nighttime is like, Oh, just I’m so energetic, even if I was like sleepy during the evening, 9pm hits, and I’m up. And I’m thinking about so many different things. So not not like Lindsey and that I definitely also am not disciplined. Either I am erratic.

Phil Rickaby
I, I mean, I get that I am disciplined enough to have like writing scheduled in my in my in my calendar each day. But what I write that day, that’s all over the place, because I have like three projects that I work on at any given time. So I just sort of like, cycle through them. Yeah. Now, Lindsey, I want to talk about this, this discovery, because I think it’s an important discovery that you had, during the, during the pandemic about about what you want to be who you want to be as an artist and that sort of thing. I think it’s something that we that artists often don’t think about, especially in this industry, which is sort of like following the project from one project to the next. What what do you remember the spark of that decision? And what did you learn about yourself as an artist?

Lindsey Middleton
Hmm, I feel like this bar. Hmm. Well, I think it came out of writing, which I always wrote a lot as a kid, but then it was as soon as I kind of went to undergrad. And I think also cedar school sometimes has this effect on you to put you where you’re supposed to be. I think I then never wrote I would like CO create with some people here and there, right? Bits of plays for things, but nothing really was my own name on it for a long time. So yeah, having the time to sit with that and be like, Okay, what do I want to make. And I think it’s a lot of like lifting people up, which probably comes out of the pandemic’s like the book is half tails of the road, but also like, these are the mistakes I made, do it better than me, and also, just please go do it. Because I think it’s valuable. I’m working on a TV show right now. And the overall message of that is like, pick yourself up, figure out what makes you happy, and keep your people close to you, which is also just life lessons that I’ve learned, like you are only as good as the people you surround yourself with. But sometimes you’re only by yourself. And I’d spent most of the pandemic alone in my apartment alone. And then I decided to go we alone more in Mexico and South America down for seven months. And what I realised and this is a big theme in the book is like I had a dope time by myself. And I had moments where I was lonely. Of course I did, and I felt the loneliness felt like and that was fine. Because I had myself to hang out with and I can have a really good time with myself. And I think I also learned that out of the pandemic, because I never was alone before that time.

Phil Rickaby
Interesting. You know, one of the things that comes up in one of my other podcasts is about how people who are performers are probably about 60 to 70% of them are actually introverts, which is the thing that people don’t often think about. Now, as somebody who spent that much time with themselves, did you discover some introversion about yourself, or did you were you did you consider yourself an introvert or where did you think that you sat on that spectrum?

Lindsey Middleton
Yeah, I think I’ve learned that I really do enjoy time by myself and I enjoy also hanging out with myself like I think I’m funny like I like having a dance party with myself. I like the stuff I write. I like the work I create. So I think having time to be by myself was exciting whether I’m an introvert or not, I don’t know I just spent the last five weeks travelling and I also have come back to the city I just got my apartment back of the day excited sublet in it, and on. I think it was last night or the night before I had my first five hours by myself alone in my friend’s apartment in five weeks, so I don’t know if I’m an introvert. Wow, okay. Okay, normally I am like, fine. I like being around people. They excite me, I always think you can learn anything from anyone. I’m just like, curious, like, information stuck on humans. So well, then I think the launch time is important, because then you get to let it digest. And like, sit with it easily. what you’ve learned and what you decide to take and get rid of, and all those things.

Phil Rickaby
Sounds like you’re sitting right in the middle in that ambivert spot where you sort of like going back and forth depending on what you need. Yeah, yeah.

Kathleen Welch
Yeah. I definitely feel bad input. Sorry.

Phil Rickaby
Oh, no, go ahead, please. I want to I want to hear well, that was just

Kathleen Welch
I definitely go back and forth as well. But like travelling alone, is is so I and I think being alone in that way is such a like decompressing thing. The first time I travelled by myself, I expected to be stressed and like, Oh, you’ll leave yourself and it’ll be stressful if something goes wrong. And I discovered the opposite was true. When I’m around other people when something goes wrong. I’m like, I have to fix this at to make sure everyone’s having an okay time that I was by myself. And you know, I’m in Greece, and I have to walk for eight kilometres at six in the morning, because I ended up in the wrong port. And then I’m fine because I’m like, it doesn’t matter how long it takes me. It’s only me. I can take whatever pauses I need to. Yeah, so I think I find it very relaxing. being by myself. And like, like you’re saying the like creating work by yourself. There’s something really beautiful about that, well, wanting to create work with other people. But I think that in terms of writing, I didn’t do much writing. Again, as a kid I did well, writing pandemic happened, ended up doing more writing. And being a co writer with my friend Natalia allowed me to then after that, go, oh, you can do this. And it gave me like this sort of great confidence to go. You can write a play where everything else I would like start something and be like, no, no, that’s shitty. It’s not good. Like, I shouldn’t keep going with it. So yeah, I think working with other people can help, like, give you that confidence to figure out what it is by yourself.

Phil Rickaby
Absolutely, absolutely. Something about you’re absolutely right about the the travelling by yourself, if you want to travel either with somebody who’s super compatible with the way that you want to travel, or by yourself. And I’ve done both and also not. I have a friend who travelled with some friends, and they were they were all like, hey, we’ll all go out. And we’ll do our own thing. And then we’ll get back together at the end of the day. And we could tell each other about what we saw. And they were like, not a chance, no, one of you has to come with me because they could not fathom going and travelling and seeing things alone. They needed somebody else in order to sort of see things in and react to them with. But the the idea of of creating, by yourself that voice that you’re talking about, I think it’s the it’s the biggest challenge the voice of, of criticism, the inner critic is probably the worst thing that anybody has to combat because, for me, it starts to set in, around the time when the writing gets hard. You know, you have the initial period of the writing, and it’s really easy. And then as soon as it gets hard, that’s when the inner critic comes in. You really do need those other people. Kathleen, for you who who are the people that you’ve gone to with with writing to be like, this garbage or is it good when Who do you Who do you take that to?

Kathleen Welch
Yeah, no, that’s an interesting in, in writing, certainly in a big thing me and Natalia talked about when we wrote Simca was the biggest part for us was, we could write different stuff. And we had our script and it was in our Google Drive. And then we’d get together, and we’d read it and we just called went each other. And it seemed ridiculous. But it allowed us to be like, oh, we’ll just keep writing and we didn’t do any sort of editing and it really, until way later, and everything we wrote, we were just like, that’s amazing. That’s so good. Oh, you just brought this story in a totally different place. And that was so and I think it depends on who you are. But for both of us, that was like, super important, because you automatically doubt yourself. And I was genuinely impressed with anything she wrote and I it wasn’t a lie, but it was important to go in with that kind of positivity. Then we had such strong confidence later, when it came It’s time to go, oh, well, we can now we can look at this. And we know this is great. And we’re saying that to each other, and then we can edit there. But I think going in with that positivity, because the doubt is going to come in, anyways. And I think that applies for acting and directing things like that, like, being in a room with people. And, you know, hearing, hearing our cast, read things out. And I know, as an actor, I can feel self conscious and not think that I was right. But But I’m so impressed listening to everyone. And I know that that helps, right? Because everyone around each other is so fascinated by the things I have to say and the way that they’re performing it that it just helps the group

Phil Rickaby
that that the complementing each other, is that something you guys decided on? Or did it just come naturally to you and him naturally?

Kathleen Welch
What kind of because because we were, you know, we started as friends before we wrote anything together, that idea of how you pump up your friend being like, Oh, my God, you look so beautiful. It’s the same kind of thing. You’re, you’re just pumping up your friend. And it’s not a lie. It’s just you see the beautiful things that are harder to see in yourself. And then when we realised it made it that it took the pressure off it made, it made it that it wasn’t like, oh, each time I write something new, like you hand it in for an assignment for your teacher, and you’ll get feedback. Instead, it was like a fun thing of going, I’m so excited to share with you the thing I’ve created. And I think that was and I do generally I think that that’s a really great way to generate more art and more content and not worry about it, and not be constantly editing yourself at the beginning.

Phil Rickaby
Absolutely. So it gets the fear of having somebody else, see what you’ve written, especially when it’s in a draft form. It’s so raw and new. It’s terrifying to like, sign the light of somebody else’s opinion on it. So you definitely need somebody to say, no, no, no, it’s good. It’s good. Just as we start to draw to a close, I want to come back to the play, I want to come back to suddenly last summer. And I’m curious, for each of you, as you’ve been working on this, have there been because I admit to not knowing a lot of Tennessee Williams stuff, except for you know, the big ones, the ones that everybody sort of knows of? Are there things that you’ve discovered, so far, surprises that have come out of, of the rehearsal process, or even the research that you didn’t expect to discover about this kind of creepy play?

Lindsey Middleton
What have I discovered, I think that my biggest discovery with this character is depth of the trauma. Like, you know, you give it your first read for then you start reading it again and kind of looking for all these different things, then you start memorising lines, and then you get into the room. And I just it’s very interesting to play someone and see someone that has just gone through so much. And and then as a writer, I know this character is very much influenced by Tennessee Williams sister in real life. He was like quite, he was always pulling on themes and the mother, like our students who research it earlier today. And I was like, I just learned another new fun fact, like, and I know I write from a place sometimes depending on what it is, I’m needing to get something out. And I think this show actually was such a place of pain in his life and needing to just get a lot of his own trauma out. And I think a lot of that lives in this character, which it’s very challenging to play. I think that’s been my biggest. And also then like we worked on a scene last night and I was laughing hysterically, like just the beautiful comedy moments because he’s such a great writer, then he’s laid there for the audience, like because you need levity and that much trauma you just do as a human being.

And I was just like, Wow, you’re so smart, sir. You’re just so smart. Like you know what you’re doing. Thank you for the beautiful words we get to play with.

Phil Rickaby
Nice. How about you, Kathleen?

Kathleen Welch
Yeah. This, I feel like the structure of the play is something that sort of been sort of dis we’ve been sort of discovering together and it’s kind of an odd structure in the in the idea that so there are main characters in it. But all of this sort of action that has happened He’s sort of already happened in the past. And it’s a discovery of what would be a quite absolute climactic moment happens before the play begins. And it’s the recounting of these horrible things that are trying to be kept down. And I think for me a big discovery is, is just this. So the character, who this plays sort of about is dead before the play begins. And you know, that early on, but the discovery of him and the sort of absence of this main character that is so instrumental in all of these people’s lives that’s a that’s been a big discovery for me because it feels like an absence. And it kind of plays into the really disjointed feeling of this group of people that would have kind of revolved around someone who is now gone. So that’s been just a kind of fun discovery in talking to the cast when we’re reading through things and, and how the scenes play out. And, like last night, specifically, we we got to this more that ending scene, and what has been a couple of characters on stage, a couple characters on stage, different ones, and then they all are on stage, and how unsettling and how an up how uncomfortable a group of people they are and how they do not work at all. So it’s it’s very weird. And so just discovering the feeling of this play, because, to me, structurally, it doesn’t really resemble, like any other play that I’ve read.

Phil Rickaby
Wow, that’s great. No, that’s great. Thank you both. So, summer last summer. Sorry, studios on Elm Grove Avenue. From August 9 to 13th. Yes.

Lindsey Middleton
Yeah. First Parkdale. Come on down. All tickets are $20. You

Kathleen Welch
will be selling drinks. You can stay afterwards on our opening night for garden party.

Phil Rickaby
And where should Where should people go to get tickets?

Lindsey Middleton
Okay, people can find tickets at riotking.com/suddenlylastsummer.

Phil Rickaby
Thank you so much, Kathleen. Lindsey. Thank you for joining me this evening. I really appreciate it. I can’t wait to see the show. Yeah,

Lindsey Middleton
thanks so much for having a spell. It’s so nice to see you.

Kathleen Welch
It was wonderful.

Phil Rickaby
This has been an episode of Stageworthy. Stageworthy is produced, hosted and edited by Phil Rickaby. That’s me. If you enjoyed this podcast and you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify, you can leave a five star rating. And if you’re listening on Apple podcast, you can also leave a review those reviews and ratings helps new people find the show. If you want to keep up with what’s going on with Stageworthy and my other projects, you can subscribe to my newsletter by going to philrickaby.com/subscribe. And remember, if you want to leave a tip, you’ll find a link to the virtual tip jar in the show notes or on the website. You can find Stageworthy on Twitter and Instagram stageworthypod and you can find the website but the complete archive of all episodes at stageworthy.ca. If you want to find me, you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at PhilRickaby. And as I mentioned, my website is philrickaby.com See you next week for another episode of Stageworthy