#373 – Michael Caldwell & Morgan Norwich

SummerWorks Performance Festival is a curated festival of theatre, dance, music, live art and interdisciplinary forms, widely recognized as one of the most important platforms for launching new work in Canada. 

summerworks.ca
Twitter: @SummerWorksTO
Instagram: @summerworksto

Michael Caldwell (he/him) is a choreographer, performer, curator, artistic director, producer, and arts advocate, based in Tkaronto, Canada. 

Garnering critical acclaim, his choreography has been commissioned/presented throughout Canada at major festivals, in traditional venues and in site-responsive and community-engaged contexts. Michael’s most recent choreographic work responds to the ‘site’ in as many ways as can be conceived, and subverts traditional modes of viewing. He recently premiered ‘Two x 30’ – a large-scale performance/sound work as part of ArtworxTO: Toronto’s Year of Public Art, and is currently working on two collaborative multidisciplinary performance projects. Caldwell is a two-time K.M. Hunter Charitable Foundation Artist Award finalist. 

Michael has performed/collaborated with over 55 of Canada’s esteemed performance creators/companies, working internationally and performing across North America, Europe, Asia, and Australia. His performances have earned him two (2) Dora Mavor Moore Awards for outstanding performance in dance. 

Currently, Michael serves as Artistic Director at SummerWorks in Tkaronto, and as Programming Advisor for Festival of Dance Annapolis Royal, in Nova Scotia. Most recently, as Creative Director: Programming at Generator, he led the reimagination of the overall governance structure of the organization, moving towards a co-leadership framework. Previously, Michael played a pivotal role in the growth and development of Fall for Dance North, serving as Executive Producer for eight years. He has also previously guided projects with CanAsian Dance, Dusk Dances, Older & Reckless, and Kaeja d’Dance’s ‘Porch View Dances’. In addition, he acts as a consultant with various arts organizations and as a mentor to many emerging artists/curators in the Tkaronto arts community.
With a bachelor’s degree in film/art history from Syracuse University in upstate New York, and professional dance training at The School of Toronto Dance Theatre, Michael now serves as President of the Board of Directors at The CanDance Network

Instagram: @mahkemahke

Born and raised in Tkaronto, Morgan Norwich (she/her) is an arts administrator, creator and producer, who brings to SummerWorks over ten years of experience in non-profit theatre, with a specific focus on performing arts festivals and partnership building. For four years, Norwich served as Operations & Partnerships Coordinator at Theatre Alberta, where she managed membership data and ongoing partnerships. During this time, she also participated in a multi-phase adaptive change and capacity-building program led by EmcArts in the U.S. to help address complex challenges and transform their practices. In addition to her most recent role as Development Manager at Toronto Fringe, Morgan has worked with The Rhubarb Festival and SummerWorks in a variety of roles over the years. For ten years, she and playwright Johnnie Walker created and produced new works as Nobody’s Business Theatre. Their most notable project, Redheaded Stepchild, appeared at SummerWorks Festival in 2010. Written and performed by Johnnie and directed by Morgan, the show toured festivals across North America, and was published in 2016 by Playwrights Canada Press. Morgan continues to perform as a founding member of BoylesqueTO, Canada’s premiere “Boylesque” troupe, where she emcees under the stage name Balonia Wry.

Instagram: @morgannorwich

Support Stageworthy
Donate: tips.pinecast.com/jar/stageworthy

Transcript

Transcript auto generated. 

Phil Rickaby
I’m Phil Rickaby and I’ve been a writer and performer for almost 30 years. But I’ve realised that I don’t really know as much as I should about the theatre scene outside of my particular Toronto bubble. Now, I’m on a quest to learn as much as I can about the theatre scene across Canada. So join me as I talk with mainstream theatre creators, you may have heard of an indie artist you really should know, as we find out just what it takes to be Stageworthy.

If you value the work that I do want Stageworthy please consider leaving a donation either as a one time thing or on a recurring monthly basis. Stageworthy is created entirely by me and I give it to you free of charge with no advertising or other sponsored messages. your continuing support helps me to cover the cost of producing and distributing the show. Just for people donating $5 A month would help me cover the cost of podcast hosting alone. Help me continue to bring you this podcast, you can find a link to donate in the show notes which you can find in your podcast app or the website at stageworthy.ca. Now, onto the show.

My guest this week are summerworks Artistic Director Michael Caldwell and managing director Morgan Norwich, they joined me to talk about their first festival together as Artistic Director and Managing Director, their relationship with the summerworks festival. What makes summerworks unique and much more. Here’s our conversation

if each of you would introduce yourselves and just say your name and title.

Morgan Norwich
Well, I’m Morgan Norwich, and I’m the managing director of some SummerWorks.

Michael Caldwell
And my name is Michael Caldwell and the artistic director at SummerWorks.

Phil Rickaby
Great, thank you. I think where I’m going to start is many, many years ago, I did do a show at summer works. And this is like early, early early. Because I’m an old man. It’s early, early, early in the days of summer works. Before there was ever it had it was anything other than a first come first serve festival. At the time, it was really sort of a Fringe Festival, part two. And I’m wondering if you could describe for me what it is like what it what is summer works. And what makes it more than just the Fringe Festival, part two.

Morgan Norwich
One of the things that Michael and I have got to do since starting here is really like learn the history of the festival quite a lot. And it, it did start as Fringe Festival, part two, we we met one of the founders recently and had lunch with him. And he told us about how he and some friends didn’t get into French. And they had a bunch of shows they wanted to put on and so summerworks was born just a couple of years after Toronto bringe was. However, I think over those 33 years, it’s evolved and changed and a lot having to do with who’s been in charge of it. Because the fringe does what it does so very well. And I think I don’t I don’t think there was a fringy gap to fill in the city. And I think that I think that where summerworks kind of comes in is as a smaller and more experimental, I guess, model. And that’s sort of how it’s going to set itself apart.

Michael Caldwell
Yeah. And I I would add, first of all, I love Morgan to what you said when you said fringy kind of gap. But really I think summerworks Yeah, has evolved. It’s been very dynamic festival. And we’ve moved towards guaranteed fees. And that happened just in the last five, six years. It moved from sort of pay to play model into what is now just guaranteed fees for artists from the outset. And also summer workshops, a curated Festival. It’s it’s unique in that sense in that there is a curatorial vision and scope. There are guest curators sometimes there are curatorial committees that really assess the work that’s coming in and and that’s how we programme the festival each year.

Phil Rickaby
Now, well, how about I mean, like, like Morgan was saying the the focus the vision of of summerworks sort of changes depending on who’s, who’s running it. How do you see where the two of you will take summer works? Because you got it you guys started in what? March? Yeah, march 1, March. Yeah. So you get started in March, the festival is looming like a mountain. But coming quickly. And so I imagine that it’s hard to put your mark on, on summer works quite that soon. But where do you see your vision for summerworks? And moving forward? Once once, you know, you had this first festival under your belts?

Morgan Norwich
Oh, we don’t know.

Michael Caldwell
Yeah, no, I was gonna jump in and say the exact same thing.

Phil Rickaby
Part of it, Phil, is

Michael Caldwell
that we, we sort of I don’t know, we never really spoke about it, Morgan in like, very specific terms. But I think both of us want to sort of live this festival first, and experience it in the way that it sort of has been done previously. And that not only includes the festival itself in August, but all the preparation for it. So we’re sort of moving through the steps that we were, we were can’t think of the word but we were the steps that we learned. When we first started in March, we’re living those steps. So then we can make a more sort of informed decision about like, yeah, what we might want to change how we might want to shift the scope. You know, it also helps inform, you know, artistic and retro vision and how we move forward there as well. So, yeah, we it’s like, you have to experience the learning first to really understand Yeah, I think so.

Morgan Norwich
And we’ve been set up really nicely. In that when we came in, we came into a mostly fully programmed Festival, which was, you know, intentional on the part of the organisation, knowing that there was a transition year. So they have a team of guest curators come in to programme the festival. So it’s just about us. stewarding it, I guess is the word that that makes the most sense media and pulling all the pieces together and making it happen.

Phil Rickaby
Awesome. Now for each year. I’m really curious what your relationship to summer works was prior to taking on these roles.

Michael Caldwell
First and foremost, my relationship to summerworks was as an audience member. It was, I think, for me, one of the very first festivals that I encountered when I moved to Toronto and graduated from dance school years ago. And it was really fun, it was a really fun moment to, to be in the city and to be gathering in different kinds of statical and performative spaces with folks. And then I believe it was 2020, maybe 2021 I was part of the artistic work series at summerworks which was one of those, you know, coined phrases pandemic pivot to online and digital work and so I did a bit of an Instagram takeover for one day just sharing bits of my practice. And then I’ve just been really close colleagues with Laura and Annie the previous artistic and Managing Director and have noticed a lot of artists in the past so I’ve just been sort of tangentially kind of aware of summer works and really a big fan for a very long time. Morgan

Morgan Norwich
Yeah, um, I I guess I came to summerworks first as a as an artist I think the first summer website did was back when I don’t know what the year was Franco Barney was the artistic director at the time and I think I’ve done work in the festival every couple of years after that, right up until I directed the show called redheaded stepchild which is Johnnie Walker’s solo sort of what became known as a fringe hit, but really started at summerworks. And so lots of involved in as an artist and then over the years, I had sort of come in and out as as a staff member doing the kind of producing and admin work that I that I do that I that have been sort of part of my career path and and also they have learned a lot over the years from Lauren, Annie and a variety of different In settings that we work together, so it there was a there’s a logical landing place here this year that feels really good.

Phil Rickaby
I did not know the redheaded stepchild started at summer work for me intermediate was it was it was it was a fringe show.

Morgan Norwich
That’s where it made all its money. Enough to make it sound like that show was a real catch up

Phil Rickaby
to you. You did you did somewhat unfairly, just categorise it as something that made you bundles and bundles of money. Just know you’re rolling

Morgan Norwich
in it from that? Um, no, but it was, you know, I think we, we premiered it at summerworks. And going from there, we’re able to find touring life for it through the calf circuit. But I think you know, I think even even now, when you talk about touring in the country, there’s a lot of work that starts or moves through summer works that goes on to have that kind of life, whether it’s on the fringe circuit, or I start other other festivals that happen across the country that aren’t unheard of that circuit, but it is, you know, it’s a launching pad that way.

Michael Caldwell
Yeah. And that’s been something I would say, like just starting the job in March 1 and starting to connect and engage with different kinds of artists. You know, every time I have a conversation with someone new that I’m meeting for the first time, they often say, Oh, I had a show at summer works. Oh, I started this at summer work. So this show happened at summer works or it was supported by summer works. It’s been. It’s been quite an amazing revelation. That’s so much artistic work. And so many artists journey south pass through the organisation and the festival over the years, it’s been really kind of great.

Phil Rickaby
I have a question that might be I don’t even know how smart this question is. But I have heard people refer to summerworks, as more of a festival that the industry pays pays more attention to is more invested in and follows more. Whereas fringe, sometimes, you know, people will pay attention. There’s a big hit, but it’s not something that the industry pays much attention to. But that that, you know, sort of the public does, is that a mischaracterization? Or is that is that do you feel like the theatre industry in Toronto is more involved in in summerworks.

Morgan Norwich
Um, I would say me, but like my, my main, if I was I’m just going from observation, like everybody’s on vacation, regardless of the range or SAR. I think that’s the big. Um, you know, I think I think people who are, there’ll be people who look for stuff at Fringe, because that’s usually more comedy or based stuff like that, like, there are people who will go to both. And I think that there are people who will know what they like to see it fringe and know what they like to see at summerworks. And, but for the most part, like if I was to talk about the industry, specifically, people are out of town man. Like they’re gone. Come, I think, but I think both orange and summerworks are in kind of in the same summer vacation boat. And I think it’s more about you know, maybe where that outreach is happening for each festival to take it, you know, those who are around to come out.

Michael Caldwell
I mean, I have a bit of another thought around that. II and that, in that a lot of my work previous to summer Works has been, you know, as a as a dance artist and a choreographer, but also as still as a curator and presenter and working with different organisations and festivals, and having good fortune to travel a lot with those organisations to see work, both nationally and internationally. And, you know, when I’m having conversations, you know, let’s say somewhere in Europe or somewhere in Asia, you bring up the name summerworks. And people know what it is people and people have good feelings about what that is. So I would say it is quite known as an entity in sort of different circles in the industry. And I do you think a lot of folks come to the festival. There’s a lot of industry folks that still do come to the festival each year to see work and to understand, you know what’s happening right now what’s the New pulse of what’s happening contemporary performance, who are the artists that are really pushing boundaries? And it may not be about the work specifically, but it’s about meeting some of those artists that are really on the, on the front line in front edge of what’s happening right now in the industry. So yeah, it’s it’s, I think it has a really great reputation. Again, it’s all perceived from the outside. I don’t really quite know on the inside yet, but it feels it feels really juicy, I have to say.

Morgan Norwich
And I am being somewhat facetious, yes.

Michael Caldwell
But people do travel, it’s true if they’re out of town, on vacation.

Morgan Norwich
And I think that the other part of that too, a little bit is, you know, people are out of town, and with summer works being a bit smaller. And people being so busy and planning their summers, I think it’s, it’s sometimes a little bit easier to hone in on what you might want to check out, or the artists that you might want to encounter or get to look at what they’re up to at summerworks.

Phil Rickaby
Thank you both for that of I mean, I have to admit that since my one show that there was at early days of summerworks. I don’t have a history with summerworks. In the same way that I do with fringe, either as a performer or more more more as as as an audience member. What would you say to someone like me, to encourage them? What would I need to know? About summerworks? that would that would sort of like, be the thing that makes me come to a summerworks festival show? Granted that it might not be a fair question,

Michael Caldwell
for me what has always been so enticing about summerworks. And again, I’m sort of speaking as an audience member, or someone that’s just been going to shows over the years, is, yeah, the fact that you’re really seeing something that’s quite curated something that has an overall vision to the overall festival. And that’s really exciting. I find, there’s the four streams of programming that are put forward at summerworks, which basically create this little eco system or ecology of how sort of different folks can engage in work. So this presentation was really developed, there’s Labs, which are, you know, works in crucial stages of development, there’s public works, which interface with public space, and then the exchange, which is a lot about professional development and industry series. And so you can really, as an audience member weaves through work in so many different ways, so that it’s not just about seeing a finished polished product. You’re also seeing work happening live and space. And often as an audience member, you can really be engaged in that. And I love that I love personally, I love work in progress. I love studio showings, I love process. I love the creative act. And that’s really what I what I love about summerworks is is you can you can really encounter a lot of that. Yeah, and just to comment previously on something as well, it’s, you know, now that we move to guaranteed fees, I think is a really great step for summerworks. We just don’t have the capacity to put forward at shows, which I think was where summer which was at, at a certain time in the past. When it when it was more, you know, you pay, you pay an entrance fee and those kind of things to be a part of the festival. So I think because it’s smaller, you know, get a more intimate encounter with the artists with the work in a way that I think is really great and speaks to this sort of moment. We’re all in in the world where I think we’re looking for ways to connect again, we seem to be in dialogue with one another, that we can share spaces one another. And I think this sort of more intimate Co Op festival is something that’s really, really great as well.

Phil Rickaby
Thank you. We’re gonna do you have anything to add?

Morgan Norwich
I was just thinking about how nice that is. On the way the way you described it, Michael because yeah, I think and I really do think like you said that the the move to guaranteed he’s made a lot of sense for summer works in I think just in that when you take that pressure off of the off of the artists and off of the creating the creative collaborators. And, and let summerworks say we’re gonna, we’re gonna sell your tickets. You just, you just make your art and we’ll We’ll, we’ll do what we can to provide the container for that. I think there is, there’s a little more room for experimentation that comes out of that, that makes the work exciting. And I think the other thing too is when you know when it is, when summer works was an ad show festival, or, you know, looking at fringes that are ad show festivals, there is there is a level of a different kind of care that we as an organisation can provide the artists making the work that’s a little more specific, and can be a little can differ a little more from year to year. Because Because there aren’t as many other factors, you know, there’s not 79 other shows that I’ll need to run like clockwork together to make the festival what it is, we have a little more wiggle room. Thank you.

Phil Rickaby
I would like to talk a little bit about about the process that brought you the two of you to summerworks. And you did not come as a package deal. You were in fact, I think you didn’t meet until you started at the job.

Michael Caldwell
Yeah, we we met when we were both so we both went through separate hiring processes for our individual positions. And then I believe Morgan, correct me if I’m wrong, we were both offered our jobs. And then it was sort of revealed to us that in fact, the other person was the other person in the job. And I think we both said, Great, thank you for this offer. Let’s see, can I meet Morgan? Can I meet Michael? Nicely? Yeah, I’d actually like, you know, get to know who I’m going to be spending pretty much every day of my life with for the next? I don’t know, however many years? Yeah. Yeah. So we met. We met before March 1, but it was after we were offered the positions that we started to just meet and talk a bit more regularly.

Phil Rickaby
Did did was this something that I mean, being in in in in leadership in an arts organisation is something that I think for some people, they didn’t expect for themselves. For the two of you, is that something that if you had five years ago, would you have dreamed of that? Was that something you were pursuing? Or is it something that just sort of like, came and the opportunity came and sort of fell into your lap?

Morgan Norwich
I think for me, it’s a little bit of both. You know, I think there there’s a particular career trajectory that I been on both from working with festivals, and also working in a, like an art service organisation capacity. And, you know, the pandemic came and turned a bunch of stuff upside down. And, like, I really don’t think about a year before I applied for this job that that this was the path that I was coming back to. So it’s, it’s, it’s great that that is what happened. But, but definitely, definitely I, I took a detour in there as well.

Michael Caldwell
Yeah, I would say that. My, the way, I’m built my mind, my body, my spirit is really attuned towards organisational leadership. So much so and I should have maybe shared this story earlier when you asked the previous question. But when I was at the school Toronto Dance Theatre in a dance training programme, we had one particular course called career paths. And part of that course was to learn about different kinds of careers, you can take different ways you can move through different kinds of industries. And one of the questions that was put forward by the instructor was around, you know, what, where do you see yourself in 510 years, even further afield than that? And in my mind, I said to myself, Oh, I would love to be an artistic director, and I would love to be artistic director of this festival. And that festival would be great if we’re multidisciplinary, like live performance. Oh, yeah. summerworks would be great. And I actually said that out loud to the to the classroom is that I would love to do the artistic director of summerworks Way back in 2005. And here we are, it’s been manifested and started today. Yeah, I don’t know how that happened. You know, no, it was and it was a very circuitous route to get here but I think yeah, I really have yeah envisioned and artistic director position on the festival for a while. On time, and it’s great to be in that position. Now,

Phil Rickaby
when this episode airs, it’ll be just before summer works, starts about a week before summer work starts. Right. And so I’m curious about if there are things that somebody who’s looking at tickets like what are some of the highlights? What are some things that people should, should keep an eye out for in this year’s festival,

Michael Caldwell
there’s a number of things, I would put forward, a beautiful word called The Seven fire, which is by Liva cooks. Lisa cook Ravensburg in from Vancouver. It’s an immersive audio experience or audio performance, where for about 80 minutes, as an audience member, you’re able to go into a space, sit, stand, lie down, move into space as you wish, and really immerse in a beautiful story. And as not a creation story that really brings forward brings forward indigenous ceremony and sound and story as a way to tap into ancestral realms. It’s a beautiful, calm, gentle work. As James Paris rom puts forward in their curation macrocell statement, it’s it’s something that right now, after all this turmoil and all this kind of strife that we’ve been through with the pandemic, and things that are still happening in the world, it’s nice to be able to slow down, it’s nice to be able to have something that’s gentle in the space, something to absorb. And so I think it’s got to be a really beautiful work. It’s happening in hockey studio, and universe and Daniel spectrum. And there’s 14 performances. So there’s a really great chance to dive into that work, and come back again, if someone wants to as well to listen to it once more. And when

Morgan Norwich
they go with one that I excited for. I’m excited for a lot of stuff. But thinking about oh, which ones might you want to like grab your ticket too early. The duo called we quit theatre from Winnipeg who’ve been at summerworks before have a show called and it’s a long title. I am your Spaniel, or A Midsummer Night’s Dream by William Shakespeare by guest Lena Patterson. And it’s sad, it’s wild at all, for summerworks to be presenting anything to do with Shakespeare. And I think this is this is going to be this kind of wild performance lecture. Tear down of the that work and there’s a splash zone. It’s it sounds like it’s like they’re really gonna take some of those exciting risks that you get to see at summerworks. And I love that. You know, you could go up the next day to dream in Hyde Park and see Midsummer Night’s Dream in a completely different way. So I think and it’s got a small capacity in there. So I think I think that’s one to watch.

Michael Caldwell
Yeah, I would just jump in to say that the lab programming this year, by virtue of the two curators being more immersed in dance, they come from more of a dance background and believe it, your lab entirely is is about movement and dance and different practices and how they intersect with other disciplines. So, you know, there’s something like double which is Lilia Leone arts. It’s a really great movement piece, a duet that has a lot of exploration of language and video. And they’re really looking to have to engage with an audience to understand more about how that that those different aspects coming together work piece that they’re offering. There’s ballroom two, which is diving into the ballroom community, three artists from the Kiki ballroom scene in Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal coming together for the first time to basically take over the top floor of the Theatre Centre for a couple of evenings. And you can move around the space and just see what they’re working on. It’s yeah, there’s a lot of really, really beautiful things in in the lab that I think are quite juicy. I love that word juicy is one of my favourite words. Like, because I just I just love the sense Oriole nature of that word. And I think I think really that’s also what assessible is offering this year is a lot of just explorations of different the different senses and how and how that really is a gateway to to how we experience things. You know how a smell can take us back somewhere when we were a child how a taste can really remind us of another person that we haven’t seen for a long time. I think the festival this year really dives into senses in a really interesting way as well.

Phil Rickaby
But I would love to talk to each of you about your, your journey, sort of the journey that got you to this place, but really more about your theatre origin story, like the thing that should what made you decide that theatre was the thing that you were going to do? I do want to start with with with Michael, because I know that you were born and raised in Pittsburgh, and somehow have found your way to Toronto. And so what is that? What’s, what started your journey towards theatre? And why did you ultimately choose Toronto?

Michael Caldwell
Yeah, whoo. Boy, how do I encapsulate this in a short story? Yeah, so growing up in Pittsburgh, I was born and raised there. And I came from a, you know, a not well to do family, I would say so. Though, I had an interest in theatre and dance and music and wanted to take lessons of all kinds. My family really didn’t have the financial capacity to support that. So it was really through what was offered as extracurricular activities in both middle and high school that I sort of dove into theatre. I ended up being part of each musical that was performed every year, I was part of show choir, I was part of the Steel Drum Band, I was the drum major group, my marching band. I just Yeah, I just dove in to any kind of performative, creative, artistic endeavour that I could and what was what was offered by my school, which was thankfully a lot, there was a lot of really great activities that were offered. And so it was through that, that I had a passion also for film. So our high school built a TV video production studio in the in the high school, which was kind of amazing. And so I started that, and then that led me to start to move to Syracuse University, and pursue a bachelor’s degree in film. At the same time, I picked up art history as a second major, and I graduated with those two posts that degree and double major in art history itself. And then I was looking for ways to bring those two disciplines together in a way that I could move forward. And I was looking for jobs, I was looking for Master’s degree programmes. And the University of Toronto Museum Studies master’s programme was a great fit, I applied, I and that’s how I made my way to Toronto. I went to U of T for one semester, and then I quit. It just was not the, the university for me, it was not the right timing. For me, it was not the right programme for me. More to do with where I was at, personally, I would say than anything else. And then I remember the day I I was like, You know what I want to I want to go and take dance class. Because at that point, I had not taken a dance class previous to that I was 2223. And I said, Okay, I’m going to, I’m going to Google Toronto Dance School. And the school of Toronto Dance Theatre was the first thing to pop up in my Google that they had evening night classes I and they were in contemporary dance, which I was interested in, I decided to go went to my classes went from level one to level two. And I also remember the day when the two the teachers cornered me in the small hallway, at the Winchester Street Theatre end and said very intently, staring directly at me, you must audition for this school. I said, Okay, I will. And so then I auditioned, I got in and went for three years. And that’s, that’s the sort of very short long story about how I got into the performing arts professionally. And then yeah, I’ve been just since 2006. Just been working mostly in dance circles, but also passing through theatre, different kinds of performance and music as well. And working mostly in Toronto, but in other places as well.

Phil Rickaby
Did did you literally just wake up one day and decide dance was the thing you wanted to try or Had there been something sort of like drawing you towards that previous to that?

Michael Caldwell
Yeah, in all the musicals that I was a part of when I was younger, I always always always was cast as the guy that was dancing with all all the girls. I was the one that was like, Michael, can you can you lift this person can you also do what they’re doing? And I could do what they were doing because I had musicality and flexibility which are like, you know, the main rhythm, the main, three main things that you need to to just dance and move so I was always put in that position and I loved it. I really, I loved expressing my Self and moving through my body. So it, it really brought me a lot of pleasure and joy. So yeah, it was just sort of a natural progression that led led from there forward to where I am now.

Phil Rickaby
Hmm. Morgan, what’s what is your origin story? What, what started you on this printer.

Morgan Norwich
Um, so when, when I was young when I was a child, I was extremely painfully shy. I hid behind my mom’s leg, I was extremely uncomfortable being in front of around people. And so she sent me to why PT drama classes to really just, like, build up my self confidence. And, and it just kind of took. And so as I, you know, as I was quite young, I was like, maybe six. And as I carried on it, it just became, there wasn’t anything else that I could do. There wasn’t else that I wanted to do, as much as you know, what I was a kid perform. And then that was the I don’t know, it’s not as exciting because that was just kind of it. And, you know, I tried to do other things. And I’m not any good at it. What I Ate I think, you know, how I got into this sort of producing or administrative path was, you know, when I was out of university, and we were all I started for my money, jobs, you know, what my, my day jobs, I got work in performing arts organisations, because the goal was, well, I’ll see, I’ll learn how to do this here. And then I’ll go and apply it out. You know, in my, in my independent theatre company, and making the work that I want to make, and just sort of, as time went on, it became Oh, actually, maybe I’m a little bit better. At and maybe I’m a little more excited about, if I’m being honest, the, the producing side of, of things. And so that’s, that’s just kind of where that path went. And it led me, you know, on a, on a fringe circuit, and it led me to go to Edmonton for a couple of years and learn that there’s, which I think was really one of the first times that I was like, oh, there’s lots and lots of theatre in this country outside of Toronto. Yeah. And, you know, being able to come back with that knowledge of what other people are doing in this country. I think, I think has really served me well coming into this role.

Phil Rickaby
As a as a as a child who, you know, very young, that really was, was deciding I had basically found like, oh, this thing I’m good at, as you were growing up, when people said, What do you want to be when you grow up? And you said, I want to be an actor. I want to do this. How do people react to that? Did everybody sort of like, was there a time when people were like, okay, that’s fine when you’re a kid, but now you have now what’s, what’s the real thing? Was there pushback at all?

Morgan Norwich
Yeah. Yeah, abs Absolutely, there was but there, you know, I think it was hard for hard for my parents to want to be really supportive of it. But also, you know, I think for I think for parents and families of kids who like, know that they want to go into an art or even especially something as precarious as theatre or performing arts. They’re just really scared. And so I think and risk averse. So I think there was a lot of, you know, in terms of where I was gonna go to school and what, you know, the old something to fall back on. phrase, the most supportive thing that I got from a Jewish family and my sister her is like did become a doctor. She’s a doctor for animals. She’s a veterinarian, but she is Dr. Norwich. And, you know, my, my bObi our grandmother’s always very proud of that. And I think once when I was still pursuing acting, she offered by me and noticed because she that’s how she just wanted Oh, I thought if I didn’t, um, you know, this schnoz, that my family, wow. Is the calling card that, that that would, that that would help so. So yeah, the pushback but also like the support what? There’s but you know, I was, my mom put me in drama classes and my parents took me to theatre. So it’s, it’s not like it’s not like I was, you know, hiding copies of Shakespeare or something. And, you know, I was gonna community theatre with my mom, like it was this thing that we did together, it just, you know, it’s just something that I kept doing.

Phil Rickaby
I am, I am trying to picture this scene where somebody’s like, Are you hiding Shakespeare under your bed?

Morgan Norwich
Is this?

Phil Rickaby
How could you? How dare you? It’s funny. I remember, for me, I was I was a kid who always felt that I wanted to do theatre. And I remember the moment when I was, you know, having to choose University College, all that stuff when I was in high school. And I told the guidance counsellor the guidance counsellor was there with they had all of their their all their knowledge about where you could go to school for all of the things that they expected people to go to schools for. And they said, so what is it that you want to do? And I said, I want to be an actor. And they said, I don’t know how to help you. Yeah. And yeah, so I had to I had to do all that research myself, because this entire almost the entire school system was unprepared for that kind of answer to the question.

Michael Caldwell
Right. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. That checks. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby
Absolutely. Absolutely. Now, you’ve talked, we talked a little bit about some of the highlights of programming this year at summerworks. And I’m curious if there are not necessarily shows, but maybe there are moments, maybe their experiences, maybe there are things that are the things that you are most looking forward to, for the festival this year for each of you. What what is it that each of you are looking forward to for the festival this year?

Morgan Norwich
It shouldn’t be that hard to answer that. But I think like I know, for me, I’ve I’m so just in the delivery like mode, right now that it’s a little hard to it’s a little hard to even

Phil Rickaby
picture sure

Morgan Norwich
what it might be like, but there is the first weekend of the festival, which is the August long weekend, is we have like a real flurry of programming activity, like there shows in all of our venues happening simultaneously. There’s a couple of really exciting one off events that are happening that weekend, all at once. And it’s it’s going to be the the busiest time, I think. And I think in that sort of like electric festival way that things get and as much as I’m, like, I’m a little anxious. For that weekend. I’m also like, oh, it’s like, as we’re pulling all this off, it’s going to be really cool. So I think, I think I think both with, you know, trepidation and excitement moving into that weekend where there’s so much activity, I am in a way looking forward to that.

Michael Caldwell
Yeah, I’m, I’m, I’m really interested in just to share, share some space with people and share space with people that have a history and affinity and a love of summerworks because, you know, when we first started, we were we were thrust into an organisation and like, we’re here to do this festival and of course, I experienced it as an audience member, but I think I’m really interested to experience it from the inside to understand what that energy is like and how that, that how that manifests in my own my own body. And, and, and yeah, just to understand what community looks like, again, I think when I say I say again, because As you know, it comes from this very tumultuous time again that you’ve been through. But also community for the first time the summerworks community, what is that? I really don’t know what that is quite yet I haven’t really lived inside of it. So I want to understand what very selfishly my community looks like, for summer works, and what that community looks like for for all of us, as we as we share space and hold space for one another in August.

Phil Rickaby
Now, Morgan, for a couple of years, you worked in the office at the at the Toronto Fringe Festival? And I imagine there are things that about the workings of a festival that you only learn from being on the inside. for good and for ill. Again, I’m not I don’t want you to spill tea. But I’m curious about how, how much of an understanding do you learn about a festival by basically having your fingers in the guts of it,

Morgan Norwich
I think well says so much. But also you all of those things that as a festival artists, whether it’s fringe, or summerworks, or any other kind of event like that, where you’re you’re making something under the umbrella of a festival or another organisation. As an artist, when you work on the other side, the reason for all this stuff that didn’t make sense to you. And this kind of clicks into place where it’s like, oh, well, that’s why they need me to do this. Because the technician has to do this another time that you know, there’s a the backend of the website has to be built. So you know, there’s a time I need to do this by and yeah, I think just just a lot of those puzzle pieces kind of click into place. They’re working in a festival environment. And then you also understand, like, why everybody’s, you know, on walkie talkies, and like, really wired

Phil Rickaby
inside? Yes, yeah. Yes. Yeah.

Michael Caldwell
And there’s something so specific about Sorry, I just want to interject for a bit, just this idea of timeline. That’s very specific to festivals, that’s not specific to say, you know, someone that’s programming a season or that’s, you know, one show at a time in different venues. A festival is such a culminating moment. And I like to call it the festival machine, there’s just this layer and amount of work that leads to the festival, that you can’t really do too far in advance, you just, you just can’t timeline wise. So it always feels like a build up to a really like, Pinnacle, to the peak of something, and that that’s something that if you’re not working in a festival, you don’t really quite have a tangible sense of. And that’s something through my experience working with festivals to that like that, that machine and that build up is, is something you just learned through experience, I would say. Yeah.

Phil Rickaby
Michael Morgan, thank you so much for joining me this evening, Michael, thank you for for, I guess it’s first thing in the morning for you. So thank you for jumping on this call. So early in the morning, and I look forward to the summer festival this year.

Michael Caldwell
Yeah, thank you. Thank you.

Phil Rickaby
This has been an episode of Stageworthy Stageworthy is produced, hosted and edited by Phil Rickaby. That’s me. If you enjoyed this podcast and you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify, you can leave a five star rating. And if you’re listening on Apple podcasts, you can also leave a review those reviews and ratings helps new people find the show. If you want to keep up with what’s going on with Stageworthy and my other projects, you can subscribe to my newsletter by going to philrickaby.com/subscribe. And remember, if you want to leave a tip, you’ll find a link to the virtual tip jar in the show notes or on the website. You can find Stageworthy on Twitter and Instagram at stageworthypod. And you can find the website with the complete archive of all episodes at stageworthy.ca. If you want to find me, you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at PhilRickaby. And as I mentioned, my website is philrickaby.com See you next week for another episode of Stageworthy