Adam Francis Proulx is a Canadian theatre maker and puppeteer originally from Northern Ontario.
Outside of his own creations, Adam has worked onstage with such companies as Neptune Theatre in Halifax, Sudbury Theatre Centre, Drayton Entertainment, the Victoria Playhouse Petrolia, and Walt Disney World Entertainment. Currently he can be seen on Family Jr. in The Fabulous Show with Fay and Fluffy, and on CBC Gem on Lido TV.
www.adamfrancisproulx.com
Twitter: @AdamFProulx
Instagram: @adamfproulx
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Transcript
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Phil Rickaby
I’m Phil Rickaby and I’ve been a writer and performer for almost 30 years, but I’ve realised that I don’t really know as much as I should about the theatre scene outside of my particular Toronto bubble. Now, I’m on a quest to learn as much as I can about the theatre scene across Canada. So join me as I talk with mainstream theatre creators, you may have heard of an indie artist you really should know, as we find out just what it takes to be Stageworthy.
If you value the work that I do want Stageworthy please consider leaving a donation either as a one time thing or on a recurring monthly basis. Stageworthy is created entirely by me and I give it to you free of charge with no advertising or other sponsored messages. your continuing support helps me to cover the cost of producing and distributing the show. Just for people donating $5 A month would help me cover the cost of podcast hosting alone. Help me continue to bring you this podcast. You can find a link to donate in the show notes which you can find in your podcast app or the website at stageworthy.ca. Now, onto the show. Adam Francis Proulx is a Canadian theatre maker and puppeteer originally from Northern Ontario. And now based in Toronto. He is touring two shows of the Canadian fringe circuit this summer, his adult show the family grow a murder mystery and his family friendly musical Emilio’s a million chameleons. Here’s our conversation.
Adam Francis Proulx, thank you so much for joining me. I have a couple of shows that are touring Fringe Festivals. This summer. You’ve got you’ve got one for kids and one not so much for kids you’ve got or not at all for kids. Just family throw it off for kids or is it? You know,
Adam Francis Proulx
I mean, it’s funny because when people see puppets, they think it’s for kids. So I get the question a lot. You know, can I bring my kid and I mean, my I’m, you know, maybe it wouldn’t be the best parent but I always have the same answers like I don’t know your kids. You’re You’re welcome to bring them. I mean, I don’t know what that question means. Right? Like none of the crows are gay. I worry about but it is about a quintuple homicide. So you.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, yeah. I remember. Gillian English used to like, I’ve seen her reacts to somebody in a crowd with a kid and be like, I know you brought a child. And I want to make sure that you’re sure about that. And the person will be like, I’m sure about it. And five minutes into the show. They’re like, they go cuz not it’s not for kids. So you’re doing the family crow. And you’re taking that to a few cities, right?
Adam Francis Proulx
Yes. First in Toronto, and then Winnipeg and then Edmonton and between Winnipeg and Edmonton. We’re actually at the puppets up festival in Elmont, Ontario. And those are all Yeah, fun. All the those are all the family crow gigs. This summer and then we’re we are doing a big ol October tour. It’s a murder mystery, right family Crow, a murder mystery. So it’s well suited to sort of spooky Halloween season. So that’ll take our October
Phil Rickaby
and I think is it Vancouver? Victoria is getting the your children friendly show a million chameleons. Yes.
Adam Francis Proulx
Vancouver fringe is getting Emilio’s. Emilian chameleons.
Phil Rickaby
Nice. And that is a Say that five times fast sort of thing, which I’m sure that you’ve done by now.
Adam Francis Proulx
Oh, yeah. I mean, and anybody who’s who’s seen the show, as soon as you say it, this theme song that I wrote with Chris Tsujiuchi, it’s an ear worm. I get I get we did a big northern tour. And I get emails from people who saw it up there or the presenters or whatever, just saying it’s still stuck in my head.
Phil Rickaby
Well, how was how was that for you as the person who really has to hear it every night? Yeah,
Adam Francis Proulx
I mean, like, at a certain, you know, having done theme park shows, you know, your 800 shows in it all sounds ludicrous. So I think I’d be sensitised to it.
Phil Rickaby
It’s true, but it’s funny what it sort of plays in your head. I’ve been front of house in theatre for a number of musicals. And you get to a point with those where the show is just a constant constantly running in your head. You could turn to anybody else who’s like front of house to be like, where are you in this show right now and they could tell you what song they’re on.
Adam Francis Proulx
Oh, man, I think I’d hate that. There was this this great. I don’t remember if it was This American Life, or one of the other many podcasts that did something about the closing of Phantom, but one of the musicians who had been with the show from the beginning, and but she’d never seen the show in all those years. And then she went out and watched it. And and I mean, that sounds first of all, doing the show for that many decades. sounds horrible, but then to see it and finally go, oh, that’s what they’re doing. Yeah, at far in that sounds wild to me.
Phil Rickaby
Well, I mean, I mean, if you’re really focused on your job, then you don’t need to see the show. But also kind of weird to not be curious for like, what, 30 years, 20 years or however long there’s so right. It wasn’t like 3030 Yeah, it was 35 years. Something wild like that. Yeah.
Adam Francis Proulx
Sounds like torture. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
So with with a show, like let’s, let’s talk about the family Crow, which you know, is a is a triple homicide of funfilled. triple homicide romp with with with with puppets. Tell me about what, tell me about that show. What’s the what’s the fringe pitch for the family crow?
Adam Francis Proulx
Yeah, puppets puns and murder. That’s what I say it’s. So the idea is you got you got one. It’s a one puppet show, actually. And the puppet for the bulk of the show sits atop my top hat. And it is the narrator it’s the detective there to solve the murder that has happened within the family crow. And then I as the sort of like, bird stand, play all the other characters I play the children, the Mother, the Father. And so he sort of sits up on top of my head and then looks down at me so that the conceit is sort of that he’s puppeting me, right, which is sort of flipped on its head from what you usually see in a sort of, I mean, not that there’s a tonne of puppet murder mysteries, but like, usually the style would be that the puppeteer is the detective or the narrator, and then all the characters are being manipulated on that. So the puppet is the narrator. And I am you know, I’m sort of his puppet, if that makes sense.
Phil Rickaby
What was the I mean, you’ve been doing this show for a while you just you did a run at in the fall of the red sand castle? Yeah. But you’ve been you’ve been doing this show for a while. What’s What was the genesis of this show? What was it that was behind the creation of the family grow?
Adam Francis Proulx
It was so I was at winter mini Fest in Orlando in 2010 27, teen mate no 2018 2018. So January, 2018, and my neck. So this was with my old show baker’s dozen 12, angry puppets. And so I was doing that show in Orlando. And then my next gig was more baker’s dozen shows in St. John’s, and there was like two weeks in between. And I have the choice of going early to St. John’s or staying in Florida in the middle of January. So the choice was clear, as far as I’m concerned. So I stayed in Florida after my after my shows, and then just, you know, kind of had nothing to do other than wait and enjoy, you know, the moderate sunshine. And so I just I had this idea about a murder murder mystery, right? Because the joke of the show is that a group of crows is called a murderer. So it’s a murder, murder mystery. And so like kind of, you know, it began with the play on words. And it began with the title. And I just sort of sat down and wrote this thing. For fun, completely. For fun, I didn’t think a show with one puppet would be enough, you know, enough to compel an audience for an hour plus. So I wrote it for fun. And then I left it, I went and I, you know, went about my life and did other work. And then I came back to it, you know, like a year later, and I read it. And I was like, that’s quite funny. And it doesn’t even you know, I don’t know if you’ve ever written anything, and you read it back later. And you’re like, that doesn’t even sound like me. That’s not my same two jokes I always used that’s like different jokes. And so I did that. And then I started, you know, working on the puppet, and then I was meant to do it in summer 2020. Obviously, that didn’t happen. So it kind of sat on the shelf for a while. And then last year, yeah, then Orlando, Montreal, Vancouver, and then that run and red sand castle and up north where I’m from Sioux Sainte Marie, we did some shows up there for the Algoma fall festival as well. There is something
Phil Rickaby
about a constraint like like to constrain yourself to one puppet and you’re forced to find solutions and creative ways around that constraint. You know, as starting out by thinking like, that’s just one puppet. That’s ridiculous. But, you know, what was the surprise for you, as you as you were writing as as you were performing it, like just through the process? What surprised you most of all,
Adam Francis Proulx
the, you know, the thing that so two things like as I worked on it with Byron LaViolette, who’s the director of Morrowind, JASP, and Pearl Harbour Chautauqua, and, I mean, he had the same questions I did, right. You know, and, you know, one of the things we do in the show is I run all the light So, with my feet, like there’s a foot pedals and desk lamps. So that’s all the lighting. So we’re doing that and we got the puppet. And I tried really hard to think about how to spread out the puppets tricks of which there are not many, right, so it sits on my top hat for a long time. And then, like halfway through the show, maybe a little less, maybe a third through the show, it comes off my top hat for the first time. And because because you’re being careful with spreading out what it does and what it can do, when it comes off my top hat, the audience goes, Oh, which is funny, because we just took it off my top hat, right. And the surprise was, you know, doing that, and then later, its wings flap and its mouth moves for the whole time. And then, you know, but really, it doesn’t do that much. It does what it has to you don’t, in my opinion, you don’t want to build a lot of mechs or tricks into a puppet on stage, because then they break, right, and then your show sucks. And so spreading out what it can do over an hour. What was surprising is how much the audience they really, not only did they appreciate that, but when I talk to people after the show, they think the puppet does more than it does. Right? They their imagination fills in like all the different articulations it has. And it just it simply doesn’t right like that needs just sort of diligence, doling out of its its abilities. And the other big surprise, which isn’t really I mean, it’s moderately puppet related, but nobody recognises me after the show. I do not wear makeup. I do not obscure my face. They look at me for an hour, and I had a full conversation with a woman after Orlando fringe, I was holding an award with my name on it. I was wearing a shirt with a crow on it. I was wearing a button with a grill on it. I had my nametag on that said my show title. And she came up to me and she’s talking and she said, So what’s your show called? And I said, Oh, it’s called The Family crow. And she said, I saw it twice. I just loved it.
Phil Rickaby
Great, no, I love people. It’s like, it’s like, you know, the kids who go to Sesame Street and they only see the puppets. They don’t see the friend. Even though this person’s mouth is moving, all that sort of stuff. It’s amazing. The things that people don’t notice. You were describing, like, like, the way that audiences think that puppet does more than it does. I’m reminded of Do you know the wonder heads? Oh, yeah. Love the Wonder head. Yeah, the wonder how you know, the full head mask? Not puppets before head mask? Yeah. But when you see a show you swear that the face changes that the that something changes in it, but it’s it doesn’t it’s it’s a static mask. So very similar in that in that, you know, the magic of the of the theatrical moment is people filling in the blanks of what the the mask or the puppet is doing.
Adam Francis Proulx
Yeah. And that’s a testament to their talent as performers. And and they’re building right. The sculpt on those heads is incredible. Yeah. And I think I mean, to me, it’s that like, I often use the phrase like Lo Fi charm, when I’m talking about building and about aesthetic, because like, to me, it’s more exciting when the audience has to fill things in with imagination. Like, there’s nothing worse than then a puppet. Where, you know, there’s a blink mechanism built in. But you know, a blink mechanism. And a puppet is usually like your middle fingers like pulling down. And so you get like this blink motion as it’s talking. And it’s like I skip it, skip it,
Phil Rickaby
you don’t need to blink, he just like Blink is an extra thing that he doesn’t need.
Adam Francis Proulx
No. And you know, sometimes, I don’t know, like a blink mechanism can be great. Like, you know, the design of this puppet, or at least this sort of like, the vague mechanism of it is based on the zazzy puppet from Lion King. And then puppet does have a blink mechanism. You know, which allows it looks surprised and angry. And that’s great. I do not have a puppet team on my shows, and I do not have multiple puppets. And so like that, for me is is a bridge too far. It’s, you know, a phrase I use a lot in rehearsals and in developing a show is, you know, it’s a long walk for a ham sandwich. Like, yes, I could make it blink. But is it like, is it gonna be that much better? Probably not. Right?
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, there’s, there’s something about you know, the the audience filling in the blanks and something is actually ultimately more rewarding to the audience than to have everything done for the recued budget of special effects and things like that. That’s all well and good, but the visceral feeling they go they leave with when they’ve done a lot of the work is far more valuable.
Adam Francis Proulx
100% and it’s it’s the thing that theatre can do and arguably puppetry can do better than Netflix is going to do for you. Yeah, absolutely. I think that’s the things you see doing really well in Fringe Festivals, especially right now are those things that people can watch at home, you know, the things that like Wonder heads like puppetry, you know, magic and things that are enduring Active Jameson James’s stuff, I listened to your interview with them the other day, it’s like, those are the things that are doing well, because you can’t really replicate that on screen.
Phil Rickaby
Well, they’re their experiences right there, it’s and that’s what people kind of want. That’s what gets people out of their house, away from Netflix and prime and Apple TV and crave and all of the services that you could possibly have. You know, you need to, they need something to be like with so I could stay home and watch something. But you know, what, what about this thing? That sounds interesting. And they need that now, we can’t just die on a stage, there has to be something.
Adam Francis Proulx
I think that’s the I think that’s correct. And I think I wonder how long that will stay that way. But that’s definitely what I’m perceiving, you know, like, last year at one of the fringes that can remain nameless that, you know, a lot of the artists were like, Oh, I’m not, you know, I’m not selling and it’s not going well, and I was at that particular fringe, I sold out my entire run, like there wasn’t a seat to be had. And so I was kind of like sheepishly like, Oh, dear, what what am I doing? Like? Is my shield that much better? I don’t think so. Is my marketing that much better? No, we all use the same graphic designer, for God’s sake. Like, I don’t think I don’t think it’s that different. But it is weird. And it is, you know, there’s enough like, sort of, I hesitate to use the word audience interaction, because it’s, it’s not, but like enough relationship with the audience, that it is just different, right? It is an experience versus going into a theatre Museum and watching a thing.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, there is something about the fact that people have spent the last three years or whatever, not leaving their house and be very comfortable at home, watching all of the things on on TV through the streaming services and whatnot. And people are still I think, you know, although people say I want to get out of my house, I think that generally in the evening, when a lot of theatre takes place, people are not as excited to leave their house unless there’s something to draw them out.
Adam Francis Proulx
100% Even so, with our red sandcastle run, you know, it’s fun. When you self produce, you get stats, I have a business degree, I like numbers and spreadsheets and crap like that. And, and we had a 15% that’s one 5%. No Show rate. I mean, that’s always gonna happen to a degree. But these are people who separated with their money, they parted from their money, they bought the ticket, they made the plan, and then they didn’t come. And I mean, that’s okay. You know, we get to put other people in the seats. And that’s great. But like, No refunds, but it’s a, but it’s like, wow, like the those are the people who really wanted to come, right. And I do think everyone’s having to work harder. Now. You know, if those people aren’t showing up, like try getting the people who are maybe hesitant to go or are not convinced that they’re gonna go in the first place. Like it’s a it’s a, it’s a, it’s a challenge, a unique challenge we’re in right now getting people to leave their couches.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, I really think it is. And I think I kind of feel like, like, as far as, when we advertise our shows, in a lot of cases. We don’t do a great job. Like I look at some of the some of the big theatre companies in Toronto and beyond. And when they talk about this show, they talk about, you know, the title of the show, who wrote it, who’s in it, what’s the show about but not really what your experience is going to be? And if I’m trying to figure out do I spend $20 or more to go see the show here? Or I already paid for Netflix? Like I know what I could see a trailer for that I can’t see a trailer for this. I don’t know. People choose staying at home when we don’t give them that and I think that we have to, I really think theatre needs to do better and change the way that they that they talk the way they talk about shows. There’s got to be a difference
Adam Francis Proulx
between a grant application and a show. Advertisement copy right? I would even take what you said a step further and say that we have to put Theatre on our posters. Everything looks the same no movie poster looks like a theatre poster looks like a garden advertisement right? If people people who maybe don’t go to the theatre don’t know what they’re looking at when they walked by the telephone pole with your poster on it unless you put the you know i for the read Sam Kessel Run I you know live theatre this October or spooky live theatre this October or something so people can go Oh, it’s a play? Because right how you know it’s obvious to us it’s certainly obvious to me I’m putting on the play but like they see a weirdo with a puppet on his head. And what what does that tell them not enough? Right like that we need to tell them this is theatre and then you’re quite right like go beyond that. Like what is your experience gonna be? I I get I get scolded sometimes because I’m not so big depending on the city about having my name on the poster because because who cares? Right like unless they enlisted That means something like in Toronto or up in the SU, maybe I’ll do that. But like else where, you know, they don’t care, you have very limited space to tell them what’s going on. They don’t care. It’s me they care what their experience is going to be. So like, I try to remove ego from that and say, Is it useful? Is it going to tell people what this is? If not get it off the poster make it less cluttered?
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It’s, you know, you’re right about about that kind of thing, like telling people that it’s theatre and giving them a sense of, of what the show’s gonna be like eldritch theatre does a great job of that they always have video of the show, they always, in addition to stuff from behind the scenes, but they always have video, you can see, get a sense of what that what the show might look like, what it might feel like. And I think that, that they’re they have a lot of success with bringing in an audience, many of whom are not regular theatre goers. So I think they do a great job of that.
Adam Francis Proulx
800% Yeah. And I mean, they’re, they are to be commended, because they have a very defined aesthetic. Unlike, get myself in trouble, unlike most, right, like, yeah, you asked me what an eldritch theatre show looks like, I could draw you a pretty good picture. If you asked me what a show at any of the institutional theatres in Toronto looks like. I couldn’t draw you a very clear picture. And they would all look very similar, right and like, and that’s not to say everyone needs to do work that looks the same all the time. But eldritch does a great job of looking like eldritch,
Phil Rickaby
they have a very, an aesthetic, that’s theirs. And that doesn’t work for every theatre company. Some theatre companies have a broad, a really broad mandate. But I think it’s not just about what, you know, what they do for each show, could translate to an individual. So one of those larger theatres, rather than what I feel is is advertising to people who are already going to see your show, or who are likely to see your show, rather trying to broaden your horizon and bringing people who might be disposed to see your show, but just don’t know about it and just don’t know that they might like it. Yeah, 100% What are we talking about? Emilio’s a million? I’m gonna stumble over that because I haven’t had the same kind of practice. Emilio’s a million chameleons. Tell me what’s what does that show? Like I would say about aside from the show with the earworm of a theme song.
Adam Francis Proulx
Yeah, it is. It is definitely that. So it came about via Terragen. Theatre, their greenhouse festival. So I was an artist in residence there for the greenhouse festival. I went to them and my pitch was a paper thin pitch that said, I wanted to make a show with that flip sequined fabric, you know, usually you swipe it and it changes colours. And I thought, I think that’s a really interesting design tool that I’ve not seen used in theatre at all. And I want to, I want to play with that. I mean, the people who were choosing included Justin Miller, aka Pearl Harbour and Heather cap lap, I was talking about sequence and they were a captive audience right out of the gate. And so, you know, fortunately for me, they chose my application, and then I went, oh, boy, now I have to do something. And really, all I had was that limitation. Chameleons sort of came a little later and then on on one of the long drives back from the zoo, I said it’d be funny if it was called Emilian. Chameleons be really funny if it was called Emilio’s. Emilian chameleons, and like that was it. So the idea of the show is it’s an old, old timey like vaudeville circus show. It’s a it’s a chameleon cabaret. There’s a million chameleons behind the set, this big inflatable set that we have. And there’s million chameleons back there. We roll these big dice in the audience and that chooses what act comes next. So you know, you got plates spinning, you got dancing, you got harmonica playing like all these acts that the chameleons do you learn through the course of the show that me Emilio. I’m also the puppeteer of these chameleon puppets. Of course, I am the son of Emilio senior, he made the show world famous and I’m doing my own kind of poor job of keeping it going. And at a certain point, the set deflates and it reveals that there aren’t a billion chameleons back there. It’s just me and one of them one, and it’s me and one and we’re just a couple of hucksters doing our best and trying to be like dad was and and then in the end, we kind of bolster each other and singer, a moving duet, again that I wrote with Chris su GG that teaches us that it’s good to be yourself and it’s good to let your inner sparkle shine and then there’s a confetti cannon and the show’s over. It’s great.
Phil Rickaby
I mean, if you can’t end with a confetti cannon, I mean, you should always if you can, if you
Adam Francis Proulx
can, I mean Yeah, and like if you really want to not get along with your technician for the first hour of The day I insist you say, I’m showing up with a confetti cannon. We did. We did show that the McMichael gallery and we’re in this gallery with the priceless works of art from the group of seven. And and we skipped the confetti cannon that day
Phil Rickaby
that I shot. I understand I understand skipping the confetti cannon cannon that day. I mean, that’s like to flip two sides of a coin, right? If you’re walking in and with if you’re walking in with with, you know, the family Crow, and you’re controlling the lights. And you’re, you know, easy time for your house tech. And then absolutely. And then to be like, oh, yeah, and my other show I’m making up for the fact that this confetti cannon?
Adam Francis Proulx
And yeah, it’s it’s true that that show is considerably more tech heavy, especially because it’s old tracks for the music. But we did knowing that we had that northern tour coming up, we did build it to be able to go, you just never know what you’re gonna walk into right? In these tours. So we built it. So if it’s in a gym, on the floor with nothing, it had to be able to work. And if it’s in 1000, seat theatre, with all the lights in the world, that has to work too. And we did both of those and it did work. Obviously, I have a preference. But
Phil Rickaby
there’s something about about the flexibility you need to do not just any tour, but a fringe tour, especially because every city that you go to, you’re going to be in a in a different space. Some might be a room in a library, some might have might be an actual theatre, there’s so many differences. As somebody who’s been who’s, who’s on who’s done the fringe circuit. How hard was it for you to come to terms with the fact that you’re going to have these differences every time you go to a new city? And how do how hard was it for you to learn to accommodate for that?
Adam Francis Proulx
You know, I It’s interesting, because I’ve kind of with all my shows, I’ve kind of designed them with that in mind from the get go, right? Like I’ve designed for the limitations. And I liked that, like you said, there’s something about a limitation, that’s fun. And so, of course, you still end up in venues, where you’re like, Oh, God, not that limitation, right. Like, there’s still problems sometimes, like so Orlando is an example. Like, I was quite concerned last year I was in this venue. It’s like a rehearsal hall at the Orlando shakes. And, and they set up the audience. So it’s like, I think like 30 seats on each side of you. And then like 20 seats in the middle. So it’s mostly people sitting beside you. And I was like I’m doing puppet theatre, this is not going to work. But then I got there and I set up the lights in a semicircle instead of in the straight line. Like I’d been rehearsing. And it turned into a ghost story, right? Like we’re doing ghost stories. And. And that’s how I do the show all the time now, because it kind of made me go, it works better this way. It’s, you know, Theatre in the Round. I mean, it’s not but, you know, that was kind of a thrust situation, and you’re just like constantly moving and yes, people won’t be able to see you sometimes. But that’s okay. Like I said, it’s one puppet like keeping keeping your cards close to your your chest is okay, in that circumstance. Right. So, yeah, so I mean, limitations are a fun design challenge, I think, you know, one of the things I’m trying to deal with like so for this a gun sitting in my living room, a 25 foot backdrop, 25 by 15 foot backdrop that, depending on the venue, if it’s feasible, it’s going to be hung. This sort of grapey down kind of situation for the family Crow, because it’s, it’s, it’s great when you’re in these intimate fringe venues. And you can have this show that’s designed for the limitations they’re in. But then when you go to the 1000 seat theatres, which is something that I’m planning for, it’s like, so can you still make that show? Big? Right? Like, can you can that still fill the space? Even though it’s the same show?
Phil Rickaby
Have you have you had the opportunity to try that out yet? Or what’s your what’s your feeling on that so far, the backdrop
Adam Francis Proulx
just arrived. So we’re going to try it this summer, maybe in factory, it really depends on like how easy it is to hang things in the fringe venue that’s going to allow it, but certainly for the October tour. I mean, the thing is, you know, to make an independent tour work, you kind of need to be touring to a certain amount of seats. So when we find 70 seat venues, you know, we’re looking more so at like three to 500 seat venues. And in that case, the big theatres right there, they’ve got a lot of space to fill. And so So yeah, well, we’ll see and I hope it doesn’t take away from my hashtag Lo Lo Fi charm that I was talking about.
Phil Rickaby
I’m sure it won’t. It’s the backdrop. Just a backdrop.
Adam Francis Proulx
You get nervous though, you know,
Phil Rickaby
I know I know. Whenever you cheat, you add something it’s like, am i Is this too much. Is this a bridge too far? Yeah, yeah. I do want to talk about the show that you just worked on in Sioux Sainte Marie of fairytale. Tell me about that show.
Adam Francis Proulx
Yeah, so like I mentioned, I’m from Sioux Sainte Marie. And I was working on this other script a number of years ago that’s sort of related to the Canada US border. For those who don’t know, Sioux Sainte Marie sits on the Canada US border. There, St. Mary’s River runs between Sioux Sainte Marie Ontario and Sioux Sainte Marie Michigan. And so while I was researching this other script, my dad came across a news article that was a sort of remember when that was written by the the librarians at the Sioux Sainte Marie Public Library. And it was the story of a guy named John who was American and a woman named Mary, who was Canadian, and they met, they fell in love, they got married, they lived together for a while. And then for a couple of reasons, one day, they just weren’t allowed to be in each other’s countries anymore. So they were stuck. Mary in Canada, John in the States, and they, nowadays, there’s a bridge that runs between the two Seuss until, like 1964 67, something like that, there was a ferry. So this took place in the 30s. They realised a workaround was that they could meet on the ferry. So they finish their work every night, and they’d go get on the ferry, and just ride back and forth, back and forth, all night long until sort of last stops, and then they they go their separate ways. So this is a true story. As soon as I read it, I was like, well, that that’s good for visual storytelling right there. That’s just like, prime. And so you know, I started applying for funding as we do. And I started doing research with lots of help from the public libraries on both sides of the border, the Chippewa County Historical Society, Sioux Sainte Marie Museum. Also, I realised that a friend of mine, her grandfather was the captain of the ferry at that time, and had all of his logbooks still with information from those dates, which is so cool. So I started doing the research, the funding came came through, which I guess is not surprising. It’s a very northern story, right, like, very Sioux Sainte Marie specific, and I’m not sure how many sort of like, historically accurate puppet theatre show applications they have coming through the Ontario Arts Council on any given day. But it just, it seemed to capture the attention. And so we did it in May, I’ve been sort of working on it for a number of years in terms of sort of writing and collaborating with artists and graphic designers, I didn’t do much of the building myself this time, because it was all two dimensional, like sort of paper puppets, the we had like a cooking show camera that was like from above and overhead camera that looked down. And I used newspapers and documents and little animated, puppets, characters, photos, things like that, to tell the story in a 2d way, and my hands are fully visible. And so the audience got the experience of looking at me doing this. And then behind was projected the sort of movie that we were making, right? And yeah, so we did our shows in the zoo, we taped the bejesus out of it, we have like eight angles or something. So it’s gonna be edited into a short. And we’re, you know, figuring out what to do with that short after. But it was it was really fun.
Phil Rickaby
Now as as a relatively new show, there’s always a question, you finish the show, you know, it goes, well, whatever. You sort of try to have thing now does this have legs after this initial performance? What’s What’s your feeling about about fairy tale? Is it does it have legs? Does it have a future on a tour?
Adam Francis Proulx
I mean, you know, the producer brain. Part of me is like, I fit this whole show into an artist portfolio Right? Like, compared with Emilio’s. Emilian chameleons, which is like a confetti cannon leaking oil everywhere. You know, it’s just a nightmare. But yeah, this show is like super small i And at first, I wasn’t sure if anybody would care about a Sioux Sainte Marie story outside of the SU. But I do think there’s a sort of universality of the, of the story. It is just like a lovely, sort of tragic love story. If I were to make it into like a touring fringe show, which I think it could be, it would probably be a mix of storytelling and the puppet show, right? Like split it into three acts and tell stories in between just to give people who aren’t from the zoo, the contexts. And there were lots of great border stories, right? Like, I know a guy in the zoo, who during the pandemic, he was dating a woman from Michigan, and he’s from Sue Ontario, but they couldn’t cross the border. So he drove to Toronto, flew to Detroit, took a bus to sue Michigan, and then had to stay for two weeks because of COVID protocols. All to go like 100 feet. So like there’s lots of lots of these stories. And I think, you know, COVID has made it particularly relevant. This, you know, this idea of, of borders. So I think that’s part of White people reacted like the audience reaction was, like outsized for what it was, you know, I’m like, these are paper dollies what’s happening? But but no people were people were quite moved by it, I think well, I
Phil Rickaby
mean, even as you’re describing just the story to me, I find it already moving. So to have it portrayed in some way, I think I think you’re right about the universality of it.
Adam Francis Proulx
Thanks. Yeah. I’ll be curious to see sort of, you know, so much of this is just like, you’re kind of throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks. Right. And so, I will I’m not I’m certainly not saying no to any further life. For this. I’m curious to see what the short looks like and what life that brings. But But yeah, I’ll be curious to see what attention it gets in some shows get like lots of attention. For development, right? Like I have this one show I’ve been working on for years. And it gets like all the development attention, but like production attention, never heard of it.
Phil Rickaby
It’s funny the way things work out. It is one of the things that I like to talk to people about, because I think I feel like everybody has their own story of their, their theatre origin story, that thing that that that made them want to start doing theatre, the thing that drew them to it, and that keeps them going for you. What’s, what’s your story, what is your origin story in the theatre.
Adam Francis Proulx
So my dad is a drummer, and a very good drummer, and he would drum in pit bands in Sioux Sainte Marie in community theatre, they were doing a vida and my brother had just been born. He’s about three years younger. And my mother said, you have to do something with this other child. And so my dad took me to rehearsal and one of my earliest memories is sitting on his shoulders in the orchestra pit playing Aveda which, if you know Aveda, that’s no small feat to have a child on your, on your shoulders a lot of seven a time to have a toddler on her shoulders. And and the music director was someone who grew to become my greatest mentor Susan Barber, up in the SU and that was one of my first memories then I became interested so you know, I they would take me to see things after that they took me to see my dad took me to see Joseph like five times, which is a lot in a community theatre run of not many shows. Right? And it’s just like every night okay, we’re going again. And, and yeah, and so the first thing I did was Fiddler on the Roof. I was six years old. I sang Dreidel, Dreidel, Dreidel for my audition. And that was directed by Susan barber who I mentioned. And then I just I kept going, I kept there have been so many times in my life where I’m like, alright, I’ll stop when I get to high school because I should focus on my grades. I’ll stop when I get to university because I’m doing the business degree. I’ll stop, you know, after university, it just never happened. I just kept sort of drawing me back in. And, you know, now I really think of it like a calling like the priesthood more than a career choice. It’s like I there’s no getting out of it. This is what I know how to do. It is, you know, not to be woowoo. But it is sort of the gift I have to give the world and so here we are. Now, you mentioned
Phil Rickaby
you mentioned, studying business, and that’s the second time you’ve mentioned, you know, having a business degree. But, you know, I think a lot of times people who go into the theatre, they don’t think of the business aspect and they certainly haven’t studied the business aspect. Did you go to theatre school, or did you just keep doing theatre while you studied business and how is that affected? Or how is that reflected in your theatre practice?
Adam Francis Proulx
I mean, it’s everything. It’s called show business kids. It I did two degrees. So University of Waterloo, where I went has a theatre programme. And it’s liberal arts. It’s not a conservatory programme, but they have an Honours Arts and Business programme. So what that looks like is you do your Arts and Business programme, and then you choose a second major. So that could be economics, which falls under Arts, which is what most normal people do. I chose theatre I was one of two people who did this sort of Theatre Arts and Business hybrid. I’m very used to being the hippie in the business room. And I’m very used to being the really conservative business one in an in the hippie room in the artists room. And I think I think most people who work with me would agree that it is one of my greatest strengths that I’m able to straddle both of those, both of those fields. It you know, and I think a lot of artists think that it’s not very artful to think of think of the business and I couldn’t disagree more of course there are there are ways that business can kill art, like don’t get me wrong, but we need people to see it. You know, if a tree falls in the woods kind of thing, right? You need people to come and see it. And honestly, I don’t think I would have gone I’m far as far down the puppetry path as I have if it hadn’t been for the business part of me that was like, Well, how many brown haired actors can there be in Toronto? Right? Like, I needed something that could go on a poster that would put me 10% ahead of everybody else. And, and honestly, the idea of flyering just me was mortifying, but I was like, I can fly with a puppet, no problem this so. So I started writing puppet theatre and that’s sort of how it all how it all started. And it is alarming. You know, how, how little attention is given in training programmes and theatre school and how not just that but like how resistant people are to, to thinking about business and theatre. You know, I sometimes teach for TJ Don, Megan Phillips, solo show course, that they do I teach branding, I think, or marketing or something like that. And it’s just a little chat. And it’s TJ always has to preface with like, No, it’s not a dirty word to say branding with your light. And that’s so surprised. It’s so counter to how I think about things. But But whenever he does that, I’m like, oh, yeah, like, this is really weird for for artists to think about. This is not something everybody does.
Phil Rickaby
Exit Well, when I was in theatre school, we did a business of acting course was really talked about, like, how do you get auditions? You know, how do you keep your career going? And how do you, you know, do your taxes, you know, things like that. But nobody ever talks about like theatre as a bit like, we weren’t even talking about the creation of theatre. When I was in theatre school, it was just something you didn’t do. Which I wish that that we’d talked about it then because, you know, all of us have ended up creating our own theatre in some way or another. But also, you know, when you see people who understand, say, for example, branding, and how to advertise a show how to create a show, Gillian English, for example, is brilliant at it. And I learned so much from her, just looking at her posters talking to her about how she, like, chooses a show. And also, like all of her, like merch that she has. And, you know, she said, if she doesn’t know how to how to pitch a show how to advertise a show, she doesn’t even write it. Like, that’s where she starts from. And it’s so, so much, it’s so important. You know, it’s funny, because being somebody who is a member of the media, around fringe time, like I will start getting an influx of, of, of inquiries and press releases. Two weeks before the Fringe Fest, the Toronto Fringe Festival, which is far too late. I’m a weekly podcast, I can only do like, one episode a week, but it happens every year. And people don’t think enough about about that aspect. It’s one of the last things that people think but yourself that we that business background, how do you approach say, a fringe tour or a fringe show from from a business aspect? First, before you even get to the to the production?
Adam Francis Proulx
Yeah, I mean, you know, to take it as far back as I can like, like you said about Jillian, it’s like, can I sell the show? You know that that is an important consideration. And then and then you Purdue and you know, there are different reasons to do fringe. If you just want to go up on stage and spend spend some audience time. That’s totally okay. Right. Like, you don’t have to do it to make a tonne of money, but it doesn’t hurt to break even. So you could do it again sometime. Right? So thinking about like, do I know how to sell the show? And then, you know, as you’re going one of the most useful tools is, you know, if you do test shows, or in your early performances, or even if someone’s reading your script for you or something, just saying, what’s the show about? Tell me what, how you would describe this to your aunt Mildred. And that is so that’s where I got puppet, puppets puns and murder. Because someone said it’s about puppets and puns and murder and stuff. And I was like, great. That’s the programme copy. Because it’s so immediately clear. And and it’s casual, you know, which I can get away with, with, you know, the company and show that I have, but But it’s so clear and so often I see you know, fringe copy where you read it and you kind of read it three times and you’re like, I think that’s word salad. I don’t even know what that means. Right? And yeah, and and yeah, so just you know, thinking about that how you’re gonna describe it and then as you go, you know, keep keeping that in mind every step of the way. And like you said, like, it’s two weeks before is is far too late. Like you need your you need your photos. You need your graphic design. It’s really hard with a first first festival with the show, because you don’t have all that stuff. And so that’s, you know, part of the journey why I encourage people to not just be like I’m doing well. One festival ever with my show. It’s like that’s that’s your development festival kind of right?
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, yeah, I think I do think that it’s a Toronto fringe tends to be people who do who do the fringe locally and a lot of people don’t tour. But you learn so much like if you’re just creating a show for Toronto, you can do that you can say this is a show that Toronto will love. But again, the you couldn’t take that that show to Montreal or Winnipeg or Edmonton and expect to do the same. You need to learn so much about about, you’ll learn so much about your show itself, just by taking it to different places. And I think people not thinking about how they’re going to pitch the show, even the pitch, like, you see people on the first day of the Fringe Festival, and they’re like, I don’t know what my pitch is yet. And you’re like, you really need to work on that, like, so many times.
Adam Francis Proulx
Absolutely. And, and it’s it that’s why I say ask other people because it is hard to describe your show, you know, you’re like, Well, you know, if there’s this happens, and that happens. But like, yeah, you you’re when you’re doing a drive by pitch, it really needs to be concise. And you’re right about what you say. But you know, you can’t Toronto’s unique that way Toronto fringe, I think there are a lot of people who just do local shows. And it’s funny because I think a lot of the touring artists don’t get as much attention here as they do in the other festivals. Which is funny because often touring artists are the ones who do it for a living and their shows or like have a level of polish that is to be excited about. But yeah, it’s and then I see sometimes Toronto artists who’ve just like blown the roof off the place in Toronto, and then they show up at another festival. And they’re like, Oh, why is no one coming in? It’s like, cool because your cousin’s aren’t here. Yeah, you have to. You have to mark it, right? Like, Facebook, posting alone is not is not is not marketing enough when you’re in a new city? And it does, it makes you think about like, how people accept the information you’re giving them and all that stuff. Yeah,
Phil Rickaby
yeah, absolutely. It’s, it’s like I’ve, you know, I’ve spoken to artists who are fringe artists, but they don’t do Toronto. And they don’t do Toronto because they’ve been told by other artists who tour that Toronto is not friendly to out of town artists. And it’s other that that’s what the fringe wants, but the media doesn’t give a lot of attention to the audience, man, as a result, it does don’t give a lot of attention. So you’ll have a really amazing show that just doesn’t get seen. And so why bother? And that’s that’s to the city’s detriment, because they’re missing out on a lot of great shows because of that.
Adam Francis Proulx
Absolutely. And it’s, it’s honestly so I love the Toronto fringe, I have a very good relationship with them. I’m doing this this year. And you know, they’ve been very helpful a number of times with like the recommender grants for theatre creators through Ontario Arts Council, so and you know, Lucy and the whole game, they’re lovely people. My opinion was not very positive of Toronto fringe, there was my first festival that I ever did. And I like it was a new show. Like I said, development festival. I will never open a show in Toronto again, let me tell you, I will go to Poughkeepsie before I open the show in Toronto. And but like it, I didn’t have a great time, right. And then the show was new. And it was my first show. And it wasn’t until what was my first festival after that Montreal, where I went to Montreal, and I kind of like did, I’m sure a better version of the show, but like marginally, right? And then I like started selling out and winning awards and stuff. And, and then Vancouver happened and the same thing happened then Orlando happened and it just went through the roof. And it’s it was like, Wait, so in my own city. People don’t care and yet I leave and all of a sudden, people care and that has changed for me through the years with Toronto, but it’s it is a different beast. I understand why people are hesitant to try and crack it. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
I mean absolutely, like loving the fringe. It’s free. It’s theatre Christmas. For me. It’s like I love the Toronto fringe. I spend so much time doing talking to fringe artists. I love promoting it. But again, not it’s not a festival that is friendly for failure. It’s not an experimenting. There’s not like I’m going to try this out. Toronto, audiences in Toronto media want it polished and they want it perfect. And so if it’s a new show that you’ve never tried out before, you might be a little a little iffy about it and it’s sort of experimental it’s not the place for it. And you know the Montreal is great for it. Yeah place like Montreal they’re like sure bring us your mess and I’m you leave it’s less of a mess because you’ve had the time to fix it and clean it. Sex T Rex will often do that. They’ll start in Montreal, and they learn from each performance and they fix so they do this thing by the time they leave they have a Polish show but Montreal is so friendly to it and and loves the game Do this space to fail without punishing you for it.
Adam Francis Proulx
Yeah, I couldn’t, I couldn’t agree more. You know, it’s very funny working with Byron, who’s the director of Mario and Jasper and, you know, when we talk about, you know, Toronto fringe or just fringes in general, it’s like, yeah, I really hate having empty seats, says Adam, and Byron is kind of like, yeah, I don’t know what that’s like. Like, you know, more than jazz good. The Golden children. So whenever like, Yeah, but what am I what am I get a bad review? And he’s like, I can’t speak to that. And it’s like, Oh, screw off.
Phil Rickaby
Ah, right. But I mean, even with that, like you can, you can have this show that sells out and save Montreal and you can have the show that sells out in Winnipeg. But Calgary hates it. Like you. It’s you don’t know. And suddenly, you’re like, Why did I do well, in in Winnipeg and Calgary, I can’t get people to come and see my show. It’s like every place is different. And every places is so strange and weird.
Adam Francis Proulx
strange and weird. And like, Yeah, I mean, I’ve never had more different experiences back to back festivals, like I did going from Orlando where COVID was over on like March 23 2020. And then to Montreal, where I’m doing this, like very punny English show. And, and like, you know, a lot of the audience’s French is a first language there and like, it’s a it’s a very English show. Right. Like, it’s wordplay. And it’s like a lot of obscure words. And and so people were listening, you know, so Orlando was raucous. And Montreal, people were paying attention and they seem to like it reviews were good. Ticket sales are good. But it’s like, is this what it sounds like when you like it here?
Phil Rickaby
What’s funny, because, you know, I toured a show that was a plan to silo silent film. And you know, when you’re not talking and you only have like a piano, that’s, that’s like, dude, making the sound. It was amazing to watch an audience. Like, think that they couldn’t make noise. They couldn’t laugh. And a lot, sometimes we would finish the show, and nobody really laughed, but you could look around, you could see they were smiling, and then they would applaud like they had a good time. But if you had a good laugh, or then suddenly, it was like, Oh, yes, we can laugh. But again, when they’re listening, when they’re paying attention, things like that. Sometimes the laughs Just don’t, don’t come and I could definitely see that. I’m not sure. Oh,
Adam Francis Proulx
yeah, yeah, I, you know, I sell buttons after my show often. And it’s very funny. Like, there’s an inverse relationship between how loud the audience is, and how many buttons I sell. Like, sometimes it’s like, well, that was quiet. I don’t think they liked it. And then I’m like, wait, I sold up the buttons tonight. Like, I and I mean, it’s also weird. You can I mean, it’s great to take the lessons. It’s great to think about it and learn and try and figure out why did Calgary hate me in Winnipeg? Love me. That’s all great. But I mean, you can’t you can’t look too hard under the hood. No, I think it’s crazy making.
Phil Rickaby
Sometimes you just have to accept that this show is not for this city. And they just, there’s something about it there. It’s not there back. And that’s, and that’s fine. You just have to accept that and move on. Because if you if you try to monkey with it, and try to make it so that it’ll work everywhere. It’ll work nowhere. Yeah. What are things like curious about oh, sorry, go ahead.
Adam Francis Proulx
Well, no, I was just gonna say you diluted Right. Like it’s what made you know, like, I think of people’s you know, like the, the Merkin sisters or like, you know, anyone grits shows. It’s like, it’s so weird. You can leave me alone in a room for 800 years, and I’ve never come up with anything like that. Right. And, and I would like it to stay exactly as it is, please.
Phil Rickaby
Oh, yeah. No, the myrtle Sisters is one of the weirdest things I’ve ever seen. But it doesn’t surprise me that it’s something that that Ingrid. And that Ingrid was part of creating. Having seen little orange MAN, which is like very much like was her signature show for so long? It makes sense that this show came from that brain?
Adam Francis Proulx
Absolutely. And I feel the same about the sort of, you know, James James zine and that gang I had a laugh of Aleister because, you know, their shows are like, I mean, it controlled beautiful chaos, right? And then my shows are like 12 Angry puppets. Like there have to be 12 There are 12 monologues they need to tidy it’s a murder mystery in that that happens and then you solve it. Like my shows are so organised compared to their like, beautiful chaos.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, absolutely. What the thing that I was going to ask just sort of like as, as we draw to a close, I know that, you know, a lot of times you’re making your puppets you have a constructor of your puppets. How did you learn that? Was that like I’m learning learn finding stuff on YouTube was a trial and error. What was your process to becoming a puppet maker?
Adam Francis Proulx
A Yeah, it’s wrung out of necessity, right? We talked a little about a baker’s dozen 12 Angry puppets, which was my first show, The concept for that was it was sort of a blank face puppet. And I had a briefcase full of noses and eyeballs and lips and things that I would use to make 12 characters 12 neat and tidy moments. And, and so that I mean, that’s, that’s hard to explain to anyone. Right? It was just one of those cases where it’s like, this makes sense in my mind, but I certainly don’t think that I mean, first of all, at that point, I wouldn’t have been able to afford anybody to make it. But second of all, I don’t think I’d be able to accurately describe what I’m looking for. Because I don’t quite know, right, so I just had to start learning. And so I, you know, I kind of got it, we didn’t talk about this, but I did Avenue Q in Toronto, and that’s sort of like, what really pushed me down the puppetry path. And so I kind of spent a lot of time with my hand up a puppets button with a close view, looking at how they were made. And then there’s a wonderful, wonderful builder in Toronto called Andy Hayward. And he is he’s the, the cleanest builder, I know. And he built our second round of Avenue Q puppets for that production. And he was kind enough to give me a pattern. And that was the pattern that I took to make that first puppet and, and then yeah, and I just, I kept going. And I did a residency in Australia with a company called the puppet smithy to work on my sort of building skills. And sometimes I, you know, I build for other people, for for, for myself for TV for clients who just want puppets, and yeah, it’s just become a little bit of a part of what I do.
Phil Rickaby
Nice. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s it. To me, as somebody who grew up with the Muppets, both Sesame Street, The Muppet Show, and beyond. To me, puppets, Muppets, all of those, those creations are all basically magic. So it’s always fascinating to hear about somebody who has figured out how to how to create that magical thing. So it’s fascinating to me. Yeah, it’s,
Adam Francis Proulx
I mean, it’s, it makes me it makes me very happy. Like, it’s I like sort of bringing something into the world like that. And it’s funny because I’m not a very good sketcher. So like, I like to sketch but it’s just not my skill set. So like, I draw these characters and they look kind of crappy, but then I can build them and make them into these beautiful looking up at the mat. And that makes. That’s awesome.
Phil Rickaby
That’s awesome. Well, Adam, thank you so much for talking with me this evening. I really appreciate it. And I can’t wait to see your shows a different festival.
Adam Francis Proulx
Oh, yeah. Thanks. This was a lot of fun.
Phil Rickaby
This has been an episode of Stageworthy Stageworthy is produced, hosted and edited by Phil Rick. That’s me. If you enjoyed this podcast and you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify, you can leave a five star rating. And if you’re listening on Apple podcast, you can also leave a review. Those reviews and ratings help new people find the show. If you want to keep up with what’s going on with Stageworthy and my other projects, you can subscribe to my newsletter by going to philrickaby.com/subscribe. And remember, if you want to leave a tip, you’ll find a link to the virtual tip jar in the show notes or on the website. You can find Stageworthy on Twitter and Instagram at stageworthypod. And you can find the website with the complete archive of all episodes at stageworthy.ca. If you want to find me, you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at PhilRickaby. And as I mentioned, my website is philrickaby.com See you next week for another episode of Stageworthy