Jacob Willis and Kendelle Parks are the creators of Parlous Theatre, a collective that seeks to create new and experimental theatre that centre the voices of and provide opportunities to new-generation artists.
Jacob Willis (he/him) is a Toronto-based actor, theatre creator, and filmmaker, originally hailing from the cold depths of Edmonton, AB. He is a recent graduate from the BFA acting program at Toronto Metropolitan University and is the Executive Producer for Parlous Theatre. Jacob strives to create unique and innovative theatre experiences, with much of his work often merging different performance disciplines and theatrical genres. The last thing he created was INSERT CLOWN HERE, a play he created alongside collaborator Kendelle Parks and will be presenting at the Toronto Fringe (July 2023). Before that, you can catch him in “A Midsummer Nights Dream” and “Clowns Doing Shakespeare” with Panoply Collective at Kew Gardens (June 2023) In his limited spare time, Jacob enjoys: watching movies, playing D&D, eating bread, and petting dogs.
Kendelle Parks is a Black Canadian actor and theatre artist based in Toronto, Ontario. She is a recent graduate from the BFA acting program at Toronto Metropolitan University. As an actor, she aims to bring her personal intersectional worldview into flawed characters in complex environment. As a writer, she is interested in the use of language to shape stories and create worlds. She is deeply interested in works that expand what theatre can and ought to be, including dismantling and re-envisioning classical works and common story tropes. Recent Acting credits include The First Stone (Great Canadian Theatre Company/ New Harlem Productions), A Midsummer Nights Dream (Tottering Biped theatre), Hookman (TMU/Soulpepper), and Untamed (TMU/ Tarragon)Bio, and socials go here
linktr.ee/parlous.theatre
Instagram: @parlous.theatre
Support Stageworthy
Donate: tips.pinecast.com/jar/stageworthy
Transcript
Transcript auto generated.
Phil Rickaby
I’m Phil Rickaby and I’ve been a writer and performer for almost 30 years, but I’ve realised that I don’t really know as much as I should about the theatre scene outside of my particular Toronto bubble. Now, I’m on a quest to learn as much as I can about the theatre scene across Canada. So join me as I talk with mainstream theatre creators, you may have heard of an indie artist you really should know, as we find out just what it takes to be Stageworthy.
If you value the work that I do want Stageworthy please consider leaving a donation either as a one time thing or on a recurring monthly basis. Stageworthy is created entirely by me and I give it to you free of charge with no advertising or other sponsored messages. your continuing support helps me to cover the cost of producing and distributing the show. Just for people donating $5 A month would help me cover the cost of podcast hosting alone. Help me continue to bring you this podcast. You can find a link to donate in the show notes which you can find in your podcast app or the website at stageworthy.ca. Now, on to the show.
Jacob Willis and Kendelle Parks are the founders of parlous theatre. This summer they will be taking their show insert clown here to Fringe Festivals in Toronto, Hamilton, Calgary and Edmonton. In this conversation we talked about the origins of insert clown hear how they came together as collaborators, their theatre origin stories and so much more. Here is our conversation
what what for festivals you guys taking your show to?
Jacob Willis
We are going to the Toronto fringe Hamilton fringe Calgary fringe in Edmonton.
Phil Rickaby
It’s always fascinating with how different the fringes are, though, isn’t it? Like, each one is its own animal that likes different things?
Jacob Willis
Yeah, I mean, I don’t know, Kendall, if you have too much fringe experience or any at all, I only have Toronto and Edmonton experience. So it’s definitely going to be a fun journey that we go on.
Kendelle Parks
It will be fun. I actually have barely any fringe experience. I in like, 2020 I think I watched a couple shows online, or was it 2021? I don’t time the timeline is gets a little wonky. What
Phil Rickaby
is what is time? What exactly? Yeah.
Kendelle Parks
So yeah, this will be all very new for me.
Phil Rickaby
Are you from Toronto? Or did you grow up elsewhere?
Kendelle Parks
I am from Toronto. I’m from the GTA brand. See, here’s the here’s
Phil Rickaby
see. But I mean, Brampton, it’s not the same because you know, it’s Brampton and they’re separate cities. So and Toronto, for the most part, anybody who’s not a theatre doesn’t give a shit about fringe. Whereas in Edmonton, the entire city comes out for fringe. So they’re very different, very different animals. And I always tell people who are only familiar with with Toronto that they have infringed until they’ve done like Winnipeg or Edmonton.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, I mean, like, we only get the sun for like four months out of the year in Edmonton. They like they’re like, Whoa, it’s hot. And there’s people outside and there’s beer and there’s theatre. They’re like, Let’s go the entire city.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So why don’t we jump in? I was looking at your notes and I was like, okay, so we get to we’ve got tall candle short, Jacob.
Jacob Willis
For go You’re out. We’ll have to do we should have put measurements on our walls we should have like,
Phil Rickaby
just so that I could see right? Yeah.
Jacob Willis
Honestly, what all her comedy is about it’s definitely at least half this.
Kendelle Parks
Yeah, it’s an important part of our duo.
Phil Rickaby
That’s That’s good stuff though. That’s good stuff. Well, why don’t we jump in and tell me about insert clown here?
Jacob Willis
Yeah. Insert clown here is a show that Kendall and I co wrote co directed. And it’s a bit weird. The premise is I guess. We wrote a full, melodramatic Chekhovian style, one act. And on the night of every performance, the lead actor goes missing and inserted in is a random unrehearsed clown every single night and let the chaos ensue. Essentially
Phil Rickaby
Now, are you is it? Is it one of you two that’s going to be the clown? Or do you bring in a Haplo? No stranger, we
Kendelle Parks
bring in a stranger, we get a new clown for every performance. So for every, the show can never be the same twice every performance is a brand new clown, who has not read the script and knows pretty much nothing about the plot. And are expected to perform.
Phil Rickaby
Wow, wow, that’s, that’s terrifying for everybody. That’s terrifying for the clown. But I can’t imagine that it’s at all, like, safe for the two of you.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, I think we like we’ve done it a couple of times. And I feel like the cast, the rehearsed cast and the clown have a great time doing it. And it’s just Kendall and I, just gripping our arm chairs on the side being like, Okay, let’s get a move on. Or like, we have a time limit or, you know, like,
Phil Rickaby
see, that is always the danger with that kind of show is, is you’ve got a you know, some cities are more brutal than others about that about that time limit, but they’re going to turn off your lights, or they’re going to turn on the lights, right? So you’ve, you’ve got to be like, happy like, on that. On that time. I remember seeing a show with the Montreal friend years ago, and it was largely improvised by the performer. But they just had the fear the tech, who was running their, their, their lights and sound, just went 10 minutes, like right into the mic. And like, just was like that, and that was how they how they kept on track. You know, it was wild. It was wild.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, that’s, I mean, was that like something like for their show? Did that throw them off? Or was it?
Phil Rickaby
No, it was sort of like, occasionally they had the house tech pipe in with stuff to try to, you know, direct them or keep them on track. So it wasn’t like this voice out of the blue. We’d heard that voice before. But it was also like, I we were in the audience. We were all wondering like, how do you wrap this up? How do you do this? And that was how, wow, so hard to know, though. Like, it’s almost like you need somebody who’s gonna who’s gonna be like doing this on the sidelines, like, tapping their wrists that everybody knows they have the rep Shut up.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, I mean, we did have that problem. I mean, we did this show, as a workshop in a festival format that was similar to with a time limit that’s actually shorter than the one we have for friends, which is nice. And, yeah, it’s it’s a bit of a it’s a problem. I think we have a nice thing of not having it all been provided, you know, the actors have done the show. They know how long it should go. And I mean, they’re the clown Wranglers. I mean, for, for lack of a better term. They they can up the pace or down the pace. And I mean, there’s also I mean, yeah, us on the side as the directors that, you know, kind of come in if needed.
Kendelle Parks
Yeah. Yeah, it’s the job of our actors to sort of keep track of the pace and the timing and make sure if the clown is too slow to get them to go a little faster, or vice versa. So yeah, that’s part of our rehearsal process is like, we bring in test clowns, and they get practice with the timing of it.
Phil Rickaby
I don’t know how you could do without test clowns. So 100% 100% important. Um, what was the genesis of this show? How did this show come about? So we
Jacob Willis
cannot I both went to school at Toronto Metropolitan University, formerly Ryerson in the BFA acting programme, and in our fourth year, we had, it was kind of a culmination of all of our years of work, and it was called a new voices festival. And that was our first opportunity as artists to kind of present our own work. So I came in with really just the premise nothing prepared, and my idea that I must have, I think, stolen from seeing some sort of improv show in the past, and then culminated into this idea of being like, I just want to do a show where we insert a clown as the lead character. And then I came to Kendall and went, will you help me write this and helped me make good? And thankfully, she said, Yes. And that Yeah, and we and we created it. And
Kendelle Parks
this was the new voices festival that this was supposed to be a part of was 2022. Correct. Jacob are 2021 Again, timelines. I have no idea what time is 2020 I think it was 2022. So this was in our fourth year and we had just come out of our third year which was entire really done on Zoom. So we did our whole third year of theatre school on Zoom, which is where we did clown training on Zoom. And we also did like a checkup show we did check off three sisters in like a zoom performance. And so, in fourth year when we returned to semi in person classes, we were really set on just making something live. We wanted to do live theatre and a show that could only be done live, which is insert cloud here. And I think it was heavily inspired from our experience in third year with the cloud and with the checkoff.
Jacob Willis
Yes, yeah, I didn’t even think about it. It was very much like, I want to do a checkoff show where we add a clown in and then unbeknownst to me, it was because we literally just didn’t check off and clown and I didn’t connect those dots until way later,
Kendelle Parks
we had done it on Zoom. And so we wanted to do it in person, we wanted a chance to like, Yeah, let’s take those things that we did before, but let’s do it live this time?
Phil Rickaby
Um, what what is it that brought the two of you together? I know that Jacob said that he you know, he came to you, Kendall and said, Hey, will you help me on this? Have you guys worked together before? Were you creative? kindred spirits? What was it that that brought you together?
Kendelle Parks
It’s so interesting, because no, we we had gone to school for like four years together. And like, just in our fourth year, did we like write a whole play together? I think I don’t know. What do you think Jacob? What was it? I think? Sorry. I just asked you a question. And then I’m gonna answer it. It was like, I think we had witnessed each other’s work from like, a far. And I think we just like really sort of respected and admire admire each other’s like, sort of sense of humour and sense of play. Yeah. Okay. You take it Taiko?
Jacob Willis
Yeah, you’re you’re right. I mean, it’s really funny. Kendall and I are like, really different people, like, a lot of people that have a lot of our close friends and a lot of the people that we’ve, you know, presented with, they’re like, You are the weirdest duo that like works really well. Like, it’s like, it’s like, we came out of nowhere as this as this duo that no one ever expected to be a duo. And it was Yeah, I think I we we read a play that Kendall row and just I found it hilarious. Like, it’s exactly my humour. We both like this kind of absurd over the top. Satire stick humour. And so that’s yeah, that was really Yeah. Yeah, I thought it we work well together.
Phil Rickaby
So you mentioned that the you know, you did some of your your stuff on Zoom. Did you guys start in you just start school in 2019? Or 2020 2019?
Jacob Willis
We started in 2018. Yeah. 2018. Okay.
Phil Rickaby
So you, you were not one of the cohorts that spent the majority of your time. In zoom. You had, like, a couple of years of being in person before being relegated to Zoo.
Jacob Willis
Yes. Thankfully, so thankful. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
Because I really feel for the students that are go to some of the three year schools who, like started school in like 2019. And then in March of 2020, they’re like, out like, there’s, they’re like, and or the ones that started in the fall of 2020. Who were like, spending two years. It like their most of their, their, their, their educational experience. Um, was it frustrating to go from? Zoom? Or from in person to zoom? Was it like the How were we supposed to do this? Like, what was that experience? Like?
Kendelle Parks
I mean, it was so frustrating. It was. Yeah, it’s weird to think back on it. It feels like such an odd time. But to go from like having like these large like studio classrooms where we were doing movement and voice to like, being in my tiny bedroom doing movement and voice it was quite the adjustment.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, at the time, I and I still do, I live with two roommates. And both of them happened to also be in the same class. So it was like, just tight and hectic. And you’re doing movement class on Zoom, where you’re, like, kind of running around, but there’s all three of us here. And we it’s, it was it was frustrating. It was it was and I think a little bit it was we were kind of angry at it. And so that affected our willingness to learn a little bit. At least I can speak for myself. And in that case, yes.
Phil Rickaby
I mean, it’s so it’s got to be so hard. I mean, it’s one thing to you know, for your day job like a lot other people, you know, doing their day job and their day job goes online. That’s one thing. But your day job was mostly sitting at a desk anyway. But then to try to do like, the movement and the voice class and the dance and all of this stuff in a tiny apartment has got to be maddening. So, kudos to you guys for managing to get through it.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, and it was
Kendelle Parks
quite the achievement, I think.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, yeah. When we give ourselves the Pat, I mean, it was it was definitely, I mean, I, I’ll say like, it was difficult, but we were also lucky to I mean, be in theatre school in Toronto, and downtown Toronto as well, at the same time, so I mean, I try to look at both sides. So I mean, if only to make myself a little less angry at it, that’s what I tell myself.
Phil Rickaby
Um, uh, one of the you mentioned the cast, how big is the cast for this show? Aside from the two of you as the directors and the clown? How many people are in this or in this in this show?
Kendelle Parks
Five. Five actors plus the clown. So?
Jacob Willis
Yeah, okay. Wow. No big, big cast. And we even cut a character from our workshop performance. We, we knew it was big. We’re like, How low can we get it? And the answer was only one last.
Phil Rickaby
Well, here’s one of the questions. I think, logistically finding a new clown. When you’re touring, like going to different places and finding clowns in new places. What’s that process been? Like? How have you found the clowns for your insert clown here?
Jacob Willis
Yeah, that’s been. I mean, it’s kind of a double edged sword in a way. I mean, there’s something really neat about having a new local performer come in every show. I mean, for one, it’s like, you get access to each local performers, set of viewers or their circle or their connections to come see them that they want to see them. stumble through our wacky show. And then there’s the other side of the sword. Oh, sorry. Going back to the good side of the story, we get to meet so many new, amazing artists, which has been amazing. And expand our community in our circle, which has been so so so fulfilling. Going to the other side of the sword. Yeah, we have to get like 24 Different clowns to all say yes to their specific dates, and like organise all of that. And that is been crazy. So we did. Some, like we we asked some people, some friends of friends, and then we did some calls. So we did like a public call on our socials, and we put it on Tampa, for Ontario. And then Alberta. Luckily, I have connections in Edmonton and we have friends in Calgary, and we’re going to try to put it on like the similar notice boards, I guess you could say, in those locations to reach out and clowns can submit with a little video. And we get to see a bunch of silly clowns do these other fun bits. And that’s been really fun. Do you have a plan for like,
Phil Rickaby
if do you have like backup clowns in case somebody like, can’t do it on the night? Because you know, you’re sort of like wrangling people well in advance. And then who knows what’s going to happen? Do you have like a backup cloud that you can, like call in as your ringer?
Kendelle Parks
Fortunately, we have friends who have trained in cloud, who I’m sure if we were in like a pinch could call up I think I think we could do that.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, this is something that I’ve thought about. And we hope it doesn’t happen. But I think the show we’ve written it in such a way that yes, we can we can call up clowns. I mean, we have a couple on on standby or friends with training. And at the end of the day, our final resort, which some people might kind of Sue at is we can pull in a willing audience member to do the show if they so choose. And so with so want
Phil Rickaby
that that’s such a dangerous thing to do for an audience. Because a lot of audiences are like, they’ll be like, what is participation? Nobody warned me yet. So rough sell rounds,
Jacob Willis
which which I may have to look into the logistics of that for friends, we may not be able to do that.
Phil Rickaby
One of the things that that that I’m curious about was is is the writing process for this show. So you you write a script knowing that you’re going to throw in a clown character when you wrote this script, did you have the line to the clown character was going to go into Do or do you have like clown does something here or like how do you write a script knowing that at some point, somebody who has no idea what the script is is going to come in and and and mess it all up. Yeah, that
Kendelle Parks
was definitely something we thought about while writing it, it is a fully written script. So all of the character that the clown will be replacing their lines are fully written, it’s a full thought out what it’s all bear. But we also wrote it in a specific way to sort of add like little prompts for the clown here and there. So I’m giving, like presenting opportunities for the clown to change the story or to like, affect the story, and however they will. But yeah, so it is a fully written script that does work without inserting a clown. But it is, there’s room for the clown to really affect the story.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, we’ve kind of done a little bit of a, what’s the word we’ve, it’s an interesting show to promote, because we can’t say too much about the story. Because the premise is that a clown can’t know what it is. But candles? Absolutely right. Like the character that the clown replaces is the lead in the play, fully written all their lines as is. But they don’t derive. or I shouldn’t say that the the supporting characters around them really have the movement, plot movement, ability in the play. And they can they can take the Baron and prompt the Baron. Oh, I’ve just spoiled the character name. Oops. That’s all right.
Phil Rickaby
See, this kind of thing is is like, like, it’s there’s something like Mr. beeney about it. It’s, but of course, you mentioned like promoting the show and promoting a show is always a challenge. But then you have this thing now where people are like, wow, I don’t like clowns. And so how do you come out? Do you plan to combat that? When you’re pitching to audiences? The people who are like, ooh, but I don’t like clowns.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, yeah, that’s that was also one thing for us. Which is yeah, you’re so right. There’s like, I can’t go to a clown show. I mean, and so many people have this fear of clowns, which I find very interesting. But it’s very clownish in the sense of Mr. Bean clown. Like, you kind of hit it on the head there. It’s not like a circus du Solei. Or
Kendelle Parks
this is not a birthday party clown.
Jacob Willis
Who’s not? Everyone? This is not a birthday party clown. And
Kendelle Parks
we probably know it’s not a birthday party cloud.
Phil Rickaby
So it’s not Tim Curry as it? No,
Jacob Willis
well, no, no, it’s definitely not that it’s, it’s a clown in the sense of, of just, like, a full like, like your person. Like, you could say red nose, but it’s not even for red nose. It’s like, just an honest, open human being, who is themselves vulnerable, vulnerable human being that will let themselves just go along with this play. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
Right. Right. Um, one of the things that that I always like to cover on this show, is the origin story for the theatre makers who come on the show, because everybody has a thing or that a moment or something that that made them want to do theatre and kept them going. So for you guys, for the two of you. What what is your theatre origin story? I’ll start with you, Kendall.
Kendelle Parks
Yeah. Okay, I knew this question was coming, Phil. And I all I would think, what would I say when this question comes up? Um, it’s just the way I’ve like, sort of fallen into the theatre world. It feels like a snowball and the more I learned about it, and the more I realised, oh, this is like, such a possibility and actually could be a feasible career. Like, the more I went into it, it started like my mom would take me to shows when I was a kid and would be like, you could do that. And I was like, Hmm, maybe I can do that. And then I realised that like a school for the arts was like a real thing and I could actually audition and go to one and I was like, I want to do that. So I went to a school for the arts and then just like being in theatre and like reading plays and seeing more and more shows, and then realising whoa, wait, I can study theatre in a university wild Sign me up. So I did and then Tmu was just like a great so great at developing not just an actor, but like a complete theatre artists. And so just expanding not only can I act but we can devise theatre, we can write theatre, we can direct to theatre, and like so somehow I ended up here with Jacob with a show called Insert cloud here, going to four fringe festivals this summer. That’s, that’s how I got here.
Phil Rickaby
That’s pretty wild. And before I go over to you, Jacob, I have a couple of follow ups. Kendall, you went to see shows you went to a, you know, an arts school. A lot of people do that. A lot of people, you know, go to C chosen to go to art school. But the majority of those people do not follow through with theatre as a career with an artistic career in general, but let’s we’ll focus on theatre. Why, at what point and what is it that made you say, oh, no, this is it. For me. This is what I’m gonna do. What what moment was that?
Kendelle Parks
I don’t even know if it was like, I don’t even know if I can pinpoint a specific moment. It’s literally just the power of theatre to like, help me sort of understand myself and understand the world around me. And just like, the power of seeing shows, and like, I like I can’t even really articulated but I can through theatre, if that makes sense. Like, I can’t sit here on a podcast and talk about why I love theatre so much. But I can. I don’t know it’s in. Ah, I don’t know,
Phil Rickaby
I get it. I get it. I love I will tell you, I’ll tell you, I’m gonna tell you, I’m gonna tell you a quick story. You know, for me, as somebody who, you know, I think I wanted to be an actor, since I found out what it was when I was like five or six. Right? And so that was it for me all through all through my life. And it was always going to be that way for me. I always knew that’s what I wanted to be. You know, after I got over the I want to be a fireman, a policeman a doctor, all those the three the big three that you say when you’re like a little kid? What after that? It was like, oh, I want to do that. The only time I ever faltered was when I told my, my guidance counsellor in high school and they said oh, okay, I don’t know how to help you. So that was I had a moment of like, okay, this is weird. But then you know, I found I found a way to do it. So for some people is just a thing. There’s not a there’s not a moment it was just always was
Kendelle Parks
you Yeah, I think that’s it. i Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
Did you Did you ever like when you were a kid did you do shows you put on shows when people came over?
Kendelle Parks
Yeah, it’s funny. My sister and I, we would do shows all the time. And we were the little like iPad, kids like making movies at the park by ourselves. And it was more just for each other and for ourselves. So we didn’t actually put it on for any audiences. It was just, we would make shows for ourselves. Yes, we were always like creating and making things.
Phil Rickaby
Nice. Nice. Jacob, what is your origin story? What’s your feeder origin story?
Jacob Willis
Yeah. I didn’t know this question was coming. But Kendall did kind of warn me and I didn’t I don’t think I listened. But but for me, I mine’s a little bit different. Yeah, I grew up in Edmonton. I played sports my whole life. Actually, I grew up playing soccer. And to my dad’s chagrin, I went into grade 10 and stopped playing soccer joined theatre. Um, similarly to what you guys were kind of saying I also yet made I made lots of movies little movies when I was a kid. No Pictou chat if anyone knows Pictou chat on the DS we’d make little stick figure movies did that all the time candle you know? And, and little things of like, my mom likes to tell me she’s like, oh used to write me all these little songs and things when you’re little that I have no recollection of, but she keeps what so there’s proof that I wrote songs even though I’m not a very musically inclined, but I wrote songs. But yeah, I think for me, it was really like a mentor that I had in high school. I joined theatre. I went to WP Wagner School of Science and Technology. So no art school, but just a really passionate, caring teacher. His name is Noah Taylor. He still works there. He improvisers that repertoire theatre. And he just really liked his job really put his passion into it put a lot of extra time into it, and it forced me to like it. And I did the plays there and I joined the improv team. And we did You know, the school improv things CAG and those, and then I was conflicted. I graduated high school and I was like, Oh, I didn’t think I was gonna do theatre. But now I love it. This like, I love the friends I’ve made the community I made, like, how it makes me feel. So I took a year off and I said, I’m gonna figure this out. And I auditioned for the Citadel, young acting company. And I was and got into that, and so then I was like, Okay, well, how am I gonna do this? I did the you have a improv group. And just it was like, the best year of my life. I worked three jobs on the side. While doing that, and I was like, This is so awesome. And maybe if I can do this, I don’t care if I have to work. Three jobs on the side. This is what I like to do. I flew to Toronto to audition for T mu and got in again. So it just kind of like, it was like, Yeah, I think this is what you have to do. The doors just kept. The doors just weren’t locked for me, I guess. And I kept inviting them and opening them.
Phil Rickaby
Now you both came from another place to go to Tmu. So Kendall, you didn’t have far to go. But you came from Brampton to go to school in Toronto, Jacob, you came significantly further. But I mean, still moving to a different place is is still a it changes your life in many different ways. What did you notice? First, each of you I’ll start with you, Kendall. When you first move to Toronto, I’m sure that being in Brampton, you’ve gone and gone to Toronto, but it’s different when you live there. So what what what was their culture shock? What What surprised you the most?
Kendelle Parks
I think it was just like how this might be a little negative. But like, it’s, it’s not as exciting as it like, seemed like when I was in Brampton, like, it used to be like, oh, let’s go but let’s do a little day trip in Toronto. Like it was an event to come to Toronto and like, see a play or whatever. And then just being here. Yeah, it’s just like, how how normal it became like how easily I got used to the city and everything. Yeah, it feels it feels very much like home. It wasn’t too much of a culture shock.
Phil Rickaby
It’s It is funny when that happens, because I think because I lived in I’ve spent my youth, my youth but so So I spent my teenage years in the town of Ajax. So Toronto was just a half hour away, but Toronto was like this was loomed large, right? We would skip school. Sorry, mom. We would skip school on like a Friday and we would like go to Toronto and all that sort of stuff. We would like have a great time. And, you know, it seemed like a massive thing. And then you live here and it’s like, oh, okay, this is normal. Now. Suddenly it loses its lustre. Yes, yeah. Yeah. Oh, Jacob, how about you? What was that like for you?
Jacob Willis
Yeah, there was I mean, and I flew here to audition. Which was wild. It was really a big risk, I guess financially for me, because it was. So it’s not a cheap flight. And it’s not a guarantee either. But the people, a lot of people. I mean, especially like, young and Dundas. I mean, I just, I’m not used to that many people being on one sidewalk at all, ever. So that I just remember that specifically. And it wasn’t like, like we were saying before we came before the pandemic. So I flew here in 2018. And yeah, a lot of people. And I have a little bit of reverse culture shock now because I go back to Edmonton, and I’m like, Whoa, there’s a sky. That’s crazy. I can see like, ahead of me and see blue sky. Whereas I live for, for people who don’t, I mean, I’m not gonna tell you my address, but I live right downtown Kensington Market, so I’ve kind of embraced the people. Part of Toronto and I love it now. So
Phil Rickaby
we really have to, but I mean, I just, I mean, I was in Red Deer just a few weeks ago, to do a show and a red deer is not Edmonton, but again, it’s like there’s like very almost no high rises. It’s very everything is really spread out and people drive everywhere other than walking. So it’s pretty wild to like, for me that’s the culture shock is nobody’s walking and nobody’s like taking in the city except from in their car. It’s a weird a weird thing.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, yeah, you cannot really walk in like the transit systems not great. I mean, red deer is Red Deer also so it’s like there’s you have to kind of have a car which is very nice actually in Toronto, just you can kind of bike anywhere that you need or, or even walk. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
So one question that I have about your show just to sort of bring things back to to insert clown here. So what is it about clown specifically that made you want to include it in, in this show that made you want to make it an integral part of the show that you were creating?
Kendelle Parks
Um, yeah, I think I haven’t just like, sort of studied or trained in clown in our third year. There’s just such a beautiful like vulnerability about clown and just like, being a performer in front of an audience. And just feeling the feelings, whatever they are, and letting the audience in on how that feels. And one thing that I loved about clown so much, and actually, like really affected, the way I approach like, any of my art, or acting or anything now is just like, like, like the celebration of failure, when you fail in clown, like, it doesn’t mean you like, fail everything, like you’re not going to die. When you fail in cloud, you’re not going to die when you fail or anything. But it’s failure is such a scary thing. But to fail in cloud sort of relieves that fear. And that pressure of being perfect. And like this sort of perfectionist energy that I have, sometimes cloud just sort of releases that. And I think we really just wanted to explore, like, what happens when we just like, allow our performers to react honestly, on stage without this pressure of being perfect, especially as young artists who are just graduating Theatre School are just starting our careers like, what, what will happen if we just let ourselves be vulnerable, and celebrate failure rather than, like, fear it and run away from it?
Phil Rickaby
Well, to me, one of the things that’s very interesting about clown is the fact that failure can be like the best gift that you can have as a clown. Right? Like, just, if this had gone the way that I planned it, I wouldn’t have this moment to get out of this shit, which is where the comedy ends up happening. And it’s so like, it’s the thing that you don’t expect, that just sort of suddenly makes the scene work.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, and we’ve really, we’ve really set the clown up for failure. And there’s this, this quote that like kind of resonate resonates with me, I read it in a blog of a new novena clown, and instructor and teacher and she put it beautifully as like failure, clowns use failure as a springboard into the next moment. It really, they allow it to really, like you said, be be the comedy, that’s where they live, they live in failure, if everything goes, goes, right, it’s, it’s, Oh, great. It’s over now. Whereas,
Phil Rickaby
yeah, exactly, that, if it if it all goes to plan, the clown has absolutely nothing to do. That’s why in a lot of ways, like, the clown must, in some ways, be innocent to the point of incompetence in sub bases. His just like, it works best if they just don’t know anything.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, and, I mean, our show is, is very silly. And it’s, we did kind of take that idea in when writing this I mean, as Kendall and I too young, I am young, I’m not saying My youth is behind me, I am a young person. We’re two young people kind of leaving the institution leaving and kind of coming into the, the real world coming into the art scene coming to Toronto, and we kind of felt this fear, we kind of felt this anxiety, this anticipation about going into this established world. And so we made a show that we kind of felt like the clowns coming into into this community. So we made a show that we made a play that is established, it’s written and the fun comes from, you know, the clown us not knowing what’s going to happen, but they’re going to get through it, and they’re gonna get the applause at the end and, and that’s what makes it amazing.
Phil Rickaby
Um, usually I have When did you guys graduate? How, how long ago? A year ago, a year ago, okay? So it’s not like This is like you just graduated, you’ve had like a year out in the world. And this is like one of the this is, you know, I, I remember my first year out of theatre school, because that is a shock, that can be a culture shock, because the real world is not Theatre School. Other things that you wish you knew as a new grad coming into the industry from theatre school
Jacob Willis
I’ll say one that I think is super important. And I thought about this recently, and I was like, we didn’t do this, but they definitely definitely did. But I didn’t understand the importance at the time, I think it was in first year when we did it. And I was like, I just want to act. But it was writing a grant, being able to write a grant. Was it like, learning that is huge. And I don’t think I mean, in our experience, we didn’t really get a real good rundown. And even just to expand that a bit, a lot of producing things we didn’t really learn in you don’t in acting school, but like, there’s a lot of things, especially with doing a fringe show that we have to learn how to do as as self producers, so yeah, the grant is the big one, though, because, I mean, you got to write grants.
Phil Rickaby
You know, I’ll say, I’ll say one thing about that, because that’s something that has not changed. I mean, I was in theatre school, in the 90s, like the early 90s. And at the time, we didn’t talk about production. Like, we didn’t talk about production at all. That was not something that we were going to do, we were going to be actors, and that’s what they were training us to do. At one point, somebody said, Well, you know, you could always like, do fringe theatre as if that was like, the lowest thing you could do, when now it’s like, so important, right? The the need to create your own work is so important. And I wish that we discussed that too. The good thing is that fringe is kind of like production, with some training wheels, because there’s all these supports. So it’s like, getting you ready to produce. It’s not like, like throwing you to the wolves. At all. It’s there’s that there’s there are the there are the supports. If you take them, not everybody does, but if you take them, they can they can they can really help you. Kendall, is there anything that you wish you knew?
Kendelle Parks
I was going to say? Yeah, I didn’t have anything to say. Then as soon as Jacob said, grants, I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that would have been really great to get some, like, practice on. Yeah, I think that might be the most important thing. Because yeah, we learned a lot about sort of creating our own work and developing his full artist, but then we got out into the real world world, and we’re like, oh, we need funding in order to sort of create the things we want. And yeah, just learning more about that whole side of it all would have been very helpful.
Jacob Willis
Yeah, one thing I guess, not that I didn’t know, but something that I’ve come to realise how important it is now that I’ve graduated, is like the community you build from your school. So if you go to school, like the community you build from that school, I mean, we have such a community coming out of Tim you especially like recent grads, Grads, you don’t realise like how, I guess in our experience, the how small the community can be or how many people know each other and, like, just really embracing your, your community, which I think theatre and art is really about, but that has been so so fulfilling and enriching and and something that I’ve really realised is it has been a really, really big benefit to us. How much support there is.
Phil Rickaby
That’s super important. Like, like you said, community is super important. And everybody, you can’t do you can’t do this in a vacuum, you need other people. And so it’s good that you’re able to sort of leverage both your classmates and other alumni. Just sort of as we start to draw to a close, I’m curious about you know, a lot of times this is the this is not only like your first like Fringe Festival production, but it’s your first Fringe Festival tour. And so, as you prepare for this, what have been the surprise says the things that you were totally unprepared for, that you had to overcome. While you were preparing for the tour.
Kendelle Parks
I think, especially for me, everything is so new, I had no expectations. So literally every part of this journey has been not a not a surprise, but it’s just like, okay, yes, new things, new experiences. I don’t know, if you had any, like, jump out surprises Jacob
Jacob Willis
for doing a fringe tour, I mean, like you said, fringe is really producing with training wheels. But there’s still a lot of things that I mean, even, like, I were taking, like a lot of interesting steps in marketing, which is, you know, kind of a thing we’ve never done before. And also, like, figuring out the logistics of touring a show, I mean, flights all that like in so I would say just, even though fringe has all these benefits, there’s still a lot of things that you got to do that even if you’ve never done like a tour, especially that that you have to kind of figure out and, and get a hold of. And yeah, that’s kind of a crazy thing we’re doing. It’s like, and we’re instead of doing one show, first, we’re going and jumping into four shows into huge cities. But yeah, I think we’re really leaning on a lot of support from our mentors in our, in our past teachers, and, and that has been really nice.
Phil Rickaby
You know, one thing I will say is, you know, you sort of like leaning into the clown ethos, you’re gonna let you like you learn everything from just sort of like throwing everything out there, right? He’s just gonna beat you’re just like, we’ll figure it out. And in some ways, that’s the best way to do it. You know, it’s the best way to do it. And yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s incredible that you’re doing this. And I look forward to hearing about what the experience is like, once your tour is done. So yeah, let me know. I want to hear about that.
Jacob Willis
Yes, we will. 100% let you know. Hopefully, the clown card, you know, keeps keeps on rolling. But well, you know, let you know about all the speed bumps along the way for sure.
Phil Rickaby
Absolutely. Thank you, Kendall. Jacob, thank you so much for joining me. I really appreciate it. Thanks for giving some time to me this evening.
Kendelle Parks
Thanks so much for having us.
Jacob Willis
Thank you, Phil. It was a pleasure meeting you. pleasure talking with you.
Phil Rickaby
This has been an episode of Stageworthy Stageworthy is produced, hosted and edited by Phil Rickaby. That’s me. If you enjoyed this podcast and you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify, you can leave a five star rating. And if you’re listening on Apple podcasts, you can also leave a review those reviews and ratings help new people find the show. If you want to keep up with what’s going on with Stageworthy and my other projects, you can subscribe to my newsletter by going to philrickaby.com/subscribe. And remember, if you want to leave a tip, you’ll find a link to the virtual tip jar in the show notes or on the website. You can find Stageworthy on Twitter and Instagram at stageworthypod. And you can find the website with the complete archive of all episodes at stageworthy.ca. If you want to find me, you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at PhilRickaby. And as I mentioned, my website is philrickaby.com See you next week for another episode of Stageworthy