For Studio 180: Parade. For Mirvish: Piaf/Dietrich. For Musical Stage Company: Life After (Dora Award), Parade (Lucille), The Light in the Piazza (Franca, at both Theatre Calgary, and Musical Stage Company). During Covid times: Into the Woods (Witch, Talk is Free Theatre, Dora nomination), Divine Interventions (Corpus Theatre). Just before the world shifted, Tracy played Aurora in Eclipse Theatre’s inaugural production of Kiss of the Spider Woman at the Don Jail, for which she received a Dora nomination, and she spent the Spring touring Europe with Theaturtle’s production of Charlotte: A Tri-Colored Play. She has spent seasons at the Shaw (Mystery of Edwin Drood), Stratford (Fiddler on the Roof, Three Musketeers, The Fellini Radio Plays), and Charlottetown Festival (Anne in Anne of Green Gables, Emily in Emily: A New Musical), and the Atlantic Theatre Festival (Cinderella, Into the Woods, Natasha in Chekhov’s Three Sisters). Favorite roles include Sarah Brown at the Segal Centre in Guys and Dolls, Harper in WJT’s Angels in America, Jenny in Mr. Burns: A Post-Electric Play (Outside the March), and Bella in Lost in Yonkers (Theatre Northwest). A proud graduate of Queen’s University, Tracy is also a teaching artist who runs her own private studio and is on the faculty for both The Performing Arts Project and MTCA in New York City.
Recently: directed The Other Place for Talk is Free Theatre. Played Mrs. Lovett in Talk is Free’s Sweeney Todd in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Was part of Musical Stage Company/Yonge Street Theatrical’s RETOLD at the Toronto Reference Library.
www.tracymichailidis.com
Instagram: @tracymichailidis
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Transcript
Transcript auto generated.
Phil Rickaby
I’m Phil Rickaby and I’ve been a writer and performer for almost 30 years, but I’ve realised that I don’t really know as much as I should about the theatre scene outside of my particular Toronto bubble.
Now, I’m on a quest to learn as much as I can about the theatre scene across Canada. So join me as I talk with mainstream theatre creators, you may have heard of an indie artist you really should know, as we find out just what it takes to be Stageworthy.
If you value the work that I do want Stageworthy please consider leaving a donation either as a one time thing or on a recurring monthly basis. Stageworthy is created entirely by me and I give it to you free of charge with no advertising or other sponsored messages. your continuing support helps me to cover the cost of producing and distributing the show. Just for people donating $5 A month would help me cover the cost of podcast hosting alone. Help me continue to bring you this podcast. You can find a link to donate in the show notes which you can find in your podcast app or the website at stageworthy.ca. Now, onto the show.
Tracy Michailidis is an actor and singer based in Toronto. In this conversation, we talk about theatre myth collectives ingenue, finding the idea that musical theatre actors aren’t real actors and finding life balance in a theatre career. After recording this episode, Tracy had to withdraw from the production and ingenue due to a family circumstance, and it was announced that Mari Bab will step into her role as the new runs from May 25 to June 4 at Toronto’s red sand castle. Now, here’s my conversation with Tracy Michailidis.
Just to jump straight in, could you tell me about is it ingenue? Is that the Is that how it because it’s the new with some brackets in there. Tell me about this show?
Tracy Michailidis
Yes. All is in you. Yeah. That’s Evan ciertas. Who’s the writer and director? Yeah, I mean, it’s about a woman who is mid life mid career, who is who has played many otter news, all the ingenue. She says like do it like in play Shakespeare, Juliet. Cordelia, you know, in musicals like Maria in The Sound of Music Maria and Westside story. She’s played, you know, Nina in the seagull. I mean, she’s played all all the ultra news. And she’s suddenly in her mid 40s and can’t work can’t get a job, because she’s still kind of living in that the role of wanting to stay young.
And it sort of ties into what’s been going on in her life and hurt making, making a step sort of psychologically, to move on to being an adult. So it’s yeah, like a dark comedy. I would come. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
Is it is it I mean, you know, ingenue is the young or is it a show about coming to terms with not no longer being the ingenue? Is it a show about? Dare I say getting older, it was like, what is what is this show about?
Tracy Michailidis
It’s a good question. I mean, and I don’t want to give too much away with the play, because it’s, but um, but I will say there are three women in the cast. And I am of the middle in terms of our chronological ages, in this piece. And as people. So there is someone who is more called the auto New Age, and then there is someone who is older than me. And so I think it’s about ageing, but I think it’s also about how we identify ourselves. You know, there’s, I think with women, right? There’s this is not a theatre, but it’s like, I think it’s like made in goddess and Crone. And I believe the crown is like, I think at 40, you become a crown, and this idea, but that the crone also holds a lot of wisdom, right, I got to play the witch and into the woods a little while ago, and my way sort of into that part, because like sort of putting on a voice and being witchy was I didn’t really know how to do that. But I really started reading stuff about Crohn’s and that sort of wisdom that someone has later in their lives and stepping into that, which I think is part of what this is about, too. So not just about getting older, but what the responsibilities are of getting older and also the things we can free ourselves of right when we get older.
Phil Rickaby
Well, absolutely, I mean, I know a lot of women as they get older, they say don’t give a shit anymore. Yeah, just don’t give a fuck anymore and there, I wasn’t sure I was gonna spit it out as it’s just just let it out. We don’t have any kind of like regulations about that. But yeah, it’s like, I don’t give a fuck anymore. I could say what I want, I could do what I want. Yeah,
Tracy Michailidis
totally. I definitely feel that. I mean, I was just writing it was World theatre day, the other day and I, I posted a picture of a show that I just done. And I was like, I feel both like, it becomes more sacred to me, like art and theatre and also like, I give a shit lap. Like, I just don’t give a shit in the same way. But it’s also more sacred. Like it’s stuff balance, right? Where it’s like you really I value how much it means to me and what it is in this world. Art and at the same time. Yeah, it’s like fuck, like, like you do your best. It’s like it’s a play. It’s a play. It’s like just being reminded of of that, too.
Phil Rickaby
And yeah, absolutely. And this should be done at the, you know, one of my favourite little theatres in Toronto, the red sand castle Theatre, which is an incredibly intimate space to be doing a musical in it is yes,
Tracy Michailidis
we did our trailers there. I hadn’t been actually I’d seen a couple plays there. But I didn’t get to go backstage and I went downstairs and it’s got good energy, that space. I really like it was like this is going to be yes, we’re going to be right there in front of the audience. I mean, and I love I’ve done musicals and big theatres, but I love doing musicals in intimate spaces. I just think it requires a certain level of bravery from both the audience and the actors.
Phil Rickaby
Absolutely. Absolutely. There’s something about that space. And I know people who’ve done been going to do shows in there, and they’re unprepared for how intimate that is. how close you are to the audience. Yeah. Cuz they’re right there. Like you could, for the most part, reach out and touch somebody in the front row. There’s no division. So it’s like, There’s no hiding. There’s no hiding in that space, which is awesome.
Tracy Michailidis
No, it’s very true. I just did that production of Sweeney Todd that we brought to Buenos Aires, we brought it to Argentina. And it was immersive. And the audience was right there in front of us. We very similar. We have 32 people that eat at each play. And we would move them into different spaces. And they were an arm’s length away from me. Sometimes I would touch them. I fed them pies. I mean, it was terrifying. But exhilarating. is why we do it. Right.
Phil Rickaby
There’s something about about about that show. And feeding people pies. That stat something.
Tracy Michailidis
Yeah, it was great. And I mean, we were in Argentina. So the meat pies were empanadas, which was perfect, right?
Phil Rickaby
Yes. Yeah. As far as how long have you working on this show, because I know that Evans been working on it for a little while.
Tracy Michailidis
I did the first reading. I want to, I want to say a while ago, like maybe at least five years ago, maybe eight. And I’ve done a few readings since then, as as as Evans been developing it. And then of course, COVID, there was a hiatus. And we did a reading of the script that is close to what we’re going to be doing soon, just about a couple months ago. Because, you know, as Evan and I spoke about, like, this time, the last couple of years COVID That also, in terms of identity, in terms of even being a woman we were talking about this, like I was saying being a woman in her 40s Like now, compared to 10 years ago, even in this industry, things have changed. It’s in a good way, I think, right? Like we you see women who are middle aged, who are you know, leading TV series, right. And that it is that we’re having a little bit of a shift, which is great. So we talked about that. And he’s made some adjustments to the script, and we’re still developing, you know, we’re getting her soul in, like, just, yeah, just under a month, we start rehearsals.
Phil Rickaby
Wow. Wow. Um, you know, just as you’re talking about, like television and things like that, I’m reminded that, that if you know, the TV show Golden Girls, those characters were all supposed to be 50. Yeah. Yeah. And that blows my mind. Because, because they dressed them like they’re much older.
Tracy Michailidis
Yeah, they’re very, like, I’m 50. And like, I yeah, like those. I mean, it was a different time, definitely hairstyles and stuff like that. But I have to say I rewatched all of them during COVID All the Golden Girls. And I mean, it’s brilliant. It’s so good. And those women, it really like trailblazing to like, I knew funny, I got jokes that I didn’t maybe get when I was like 13 years old. But some of the issues they dealt with on that show, I was really impressed and yeah, they do like the fashion sense and all of that is kind of wild, but I love it like you know talking about having sex and because back then when I was 13 I was like how can they be talking about that? Right and safe right? Of course they’re talking about that.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, yeah, no, it’s it’s it’s the the other whole thing with with, you know, the issues that they dealt with and the clothes that they were wearing. And the fact that they were doing all that they were trailblazers, and they were brilliant. And I think that you’re right, that, that some things are changing theatre wise. So things go a little faster, you know, for for the whole, like, be an older thing. But you know, that’s alright. One of the things that I know that I wanted to talk about, and it’s one of the things that you mentioned, was about the stair did terrible stereotype about actors who are musical theatre actors. Who aren’t, they’re not real actors, which is, like, so true. But I mean, even so much is so the show us so many TV shows have followed that trope, you know, where, you know, they, you know, here’s a festival and, you know, the theatre actors, the musical actors are coming in, and they’re also dumb. You know, it’s just like this, this thing is so bad, but I wish I knew where that came from. How do you how do you combat that? Yeah,
Tracy Michailidis
I mean, and I think, you know, I’ll say there’s like, even like, and I’m, I’ve always I was an English major, I’m very particular, sometimes. Not in a good like about words, but even like, being called a musical theatre actor. I just think even that’s weird. I’m like, I’m an actor. And I am in musicals, and I am in plays. But like, you don’t say, Oh, you’re there a tickle be an actor. They’re a Shakespearean actor, right like that. We, and I think part of me thinks sometimes it’s, when we’re afraid. We categorise things. I think we put things into boxes, because it makes us feel like, we need to put something in its place. I mean, how do I combat it slash? Also answer like, Why do I think it comes? Some of it comes from it comes from like actors, like who maybe feel like afraid of singing, because maybe they don’t feel like they’re good enough, or brave enough or whatever. And so sometimes it comes from like a fear, I think of just like, making them I’m going to write like, sometimes put things below us if we need to feel stronger or better. Sometimes I wonder about that. I mean, there are actors who and you get into that whole thing. It’s like, what is a bad actor? I don’t even know, right? It’s so subjective. We all have actors, we like an actor’s we don’t. And that’s what it is. And I think whether you see that actor in performing a musical or a play, we’re also allowed to have plays that were shitty in like, it’s like, part of it is like learning. And this is sort of a little thing that ingenue deals with is like, talking about failure, like, what do we how do we learn, and we have to learn by by trying. And I think sometimes I think with the character that I’m playing in Nagini, right, like she, I think, has been doing really well doing this particular thing. So part of the need to keep playing that part is because she’s, she knows she’s good at it. And it’s easier sometimes to do the thing that, you know, you can do it rather than stretch out and try something new. I mean, in terms of how I combat it, or how I deal with it, as an actor, I think, I try to as best I can, like, try to do musicals and plays, like, you know, just do the work that speaks to me. And try to do that for me, because I like doing both. And as a teacher, like, try to model that to some extent for students of mine who, you know, I think, I think as an actor you do though, like, if you, for me, I’ve had to a couple times. If I was continually doing musicals, tell my agent at the time, you know, what I want to do play right now. So I need to not do musical for a while because I need to change. If people see me in a certain way that I need to change that. And maybe I can change that by choosing different kinds of roles. So I think we can we have some power, I think in that way as actors right to, yeah. to curate what we what we do.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, absolutely. I remember in ancient times when I was at Theatre School, we are to our school essentially told us at that time, listen, your job is to be an actor. And in this industry in this country, that means that you should be able to do Shakespeare, you should be able to do musicals, and you should be able to do to do like a straight up play. And just because we tell you that you need to be able to do musicals doesn’t mean you have to be able to sing, but you should be able to carry a tune or to sell a song. Yeah. And so like they were they very much were strict on like, be able to do all three.
Tracy Michailidis
Wow, that’s cool, though. I think that’s great. Yeah. And I mean, you know, sometimes it’s there’s been a bit of a shift, right? Like, I remember she was like Hades town. I remember when that casting notice came, came out. And there are a few musicals like this where they would say no musical theatre voices, right or no, no musicals. And of course we’ve got like, pop rock alternative. music. And I think which is great because there are different kinds of voices and we’re not having to fit a certain prototype. And you know, I worked for Disney for two years. I’m not, I’m not knocking Disney, but there is a certain sound associated with that. Right? And not everybody has that naturally. And I think it’s important, you know, we can be as actors, we can be mimics and do that, but then do something else to to develop your own voice.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, absolutely. The whole, no musical theatre, voices it I’m reminded of like, the original cast of rent was hired because they weren’t musical theatre performers at the time. And then they became
Tracy Michailidis
right. Yeah. Right. Exactly. I mean, see, so that like, and then they write shows. Yeah. And then they write shows, okay, let’s write it like a show. Let’s like Edina sings like this. So let’s write this. And let’s do this. And, and yeah, exactly, that can happen. And, of course, I remember seeing Neil Patrick Harris do rent at La Jolla. And he’s in a lot of musicals and stuff. So he, you know, he was different, but wonderful, as well.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Sure. One of the things that I know is important to you is the, the balance between art and life, because we don’t have to do we have to, you know, we want to create art, we want to create theatre, but we also have lives. I’ve kind of feel that for some people. Although the pandemic was a terrible experience for a lot of people. The one thing that it did do was sort of force a lot of people to sit back and figure out who they are outside of the industry. And whether or not we can carry that through. Because once the treadmill of production starts going, it gets a lot harder to do that. For you. What, what is important about the work life balance there the art life balance, and and how do you maintain that?
Tracy Michailidis
And it’s a great question, Phil, he’s, I mean, I will say that like at the beginning of when COVID First, you know, march 20, whenever it was, a couple of years ago, I was tired, I was a bit burnt out. So I was grateful to have time to be quiet, and to hang out with my family, and not not have the decision to make, oh, do I take this job because I’m going away, like, that was freed from me. And I didn’t and my ego wasn’t, you know, going, Oh, the phone’s not ringing because nobody was like that. No, that the phone was ringing. There were no phones, like it was like, so it was a sort of built in. And I really felt like I really needed that rest. And I tried to do that, like even before COVID to give myself time to like, take a vacation to rest because I find and of course you rest and you get creative ideas, lying on a beach or walking in the woods. And it all serves that it is good for your creative spirit, I think to do it, but the act of taking time off or spending money on a trip or stuff. I always find it like, I always have like cold feet about it. And I never regret it. Yeah, my family. I mean, I come from a big Greek family and we’re all really close. And, um, during COVID We we spent a lot of time together which was really nourishing for me. Yeah, I mean, I try like if stuffs going on in my family, if someone in my family is going through a hard time, I will. And I have said no to jobs that take me out of Toronto. I love travelling I love working across Canada and, and beyond. But um, yeah, for me, I have felt like there have been times when a family member was sick, or that I just, I couldn’t in good faith even even go to a place like Stratford. They just felt too far. And, and the work we do is so I find it all encompassing. And so I know that even if I’m two hours away, I’m going to be like, absorbed in a world and I will be absent in a way for my family. So yeah, I mean, it’s a it’s definitely I’ve been doing this now like 30 years, I guess it’d be 30 years in 94 a story in 2024 will be 30 years. And I remember going Charlottetown that summer and being really like everyone was in good health and stuff. But I was just really afraid of something happening because I felt very far away. And there were no cell phones or I don’t think I did maybe I had a computer but it wasn’t like I wasn’t on my laptop. So really felt like it was going off like to I don’t know, like a Siberia like Hodel and Fiddler on the Roof or like I was going off to someplace. But I think also the good thing about travelling and doing that early on for me, and for us is we also have to live our lives and so finding a way to and my parents have always been really supportive of me doing doing this work. So coming away coming back because that too far, okay, I can try going further this time, like a constant, a constant balance. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
Now you were mentioning about how all encompassing it can be and what, you know, it’s understandable because every time you join the cast, you form a family, you form a temporary family. And the hours are long and the work is intense. Of course, it becomes all encompassing. And so sometimes it can be hard to remember to call your family call your partner call it like this sort of stuff, but it’s so important to do both.
Tracy Michailidis
Totally Yeah, and I’ve and I, and I do it, like, I call my folks every day, like, I just have always been like that. I’m the oldest. And you know, but part of that too, like, the great thing about the family is, I mean, I was doing a play this fall in Toronto, and my brother was quite ill at the time. And so that was hard. He was here in Toronto, we were doing the show in Toronto. But of course, one of the blessings to is the theatre community, my cast was, I think, if I was doing a job, like I don’t know, working at, I was gonna say, store, so they’re all gone like Lucia toe. But I don’t even know if Alicia toe exists anymore. So let’s say I was already at h&m Like not to say that the staff wouldn’t be great. But, um, but I really felt like that helped. You know, having having that having a family around a cast. So even though it was challenging and all encompassing, I felt like it helped. It helped me through that time. So
Phil Rickaby
yeah, those those families that are formed are pretty strong. And I, you know, they don’t necessarily not just the cast, I remember, number of years ago doing a tour on the Fringe Festival and somebody who was from out of the country, they were from Australia, they had to have their appendix out suddenly, and everybody was like, okay, okay, so do we have to take collection after our show? Do we have to do this, like everybody was ready to like, pass the hat specifically for this person, after their shows to help pay for their hospital bills, which eternally didn’t, nobody needed to do? So everybody was relieved. But it was like, everybody was just so ready to jump in and help and I think that’s one thing that, that the community is really good at.
Tracy Michailidis
Yeah, I agree. So, so much so and, and I, you know, I say to like, I feel like I’ve chosen a profession where my heart leads me and so that like, in a way that’s also with my family, so it even though it’s it’s strange, because it’s both two different worlds, but also they’re very linked. And so that’s, yeah, I feel very fortunate to be able to do that, right.
Phil Rickaby
One of the things that I love to do on this show is to is to hear about people’s theatre origin stories, like why what brought you to the theatre? What was your first experience? And how did you decided this was going to be the thing that you’re going to do?
Tracy Michailidis
Well, I think I my mum took me to see Annie at the ven O’Keeffe centre. I remember where our seats were, even though we were on the aisle about the 11th row. And she took me and I yeah, like, I fell in love with it. Like, I we got the album. And I went home and like, started singing it all the time. And my brother would be like, stop saying, like, I would just be shouting like tomorrow and maybe like, because I was like, not only did I fall in love with musicals, but I always felt like I was the sort of artists kid and my family knows like, maybe I’ve been adopted and maybe that’s why and like, so it was like a double like, whammy of like, I belong, you know, this is st or to an orphan. And I let’s do love that score. I have the album I have both the movie recording and the original cast album. I love that album. And so definitely that so seeing that show. Just I don’t know you know that that Yip Harburg quote about how a lyric helps you think feel a thought talks about how like words would read them like that lyrics like you feel like I think that was just that synergy was gorgeous to me. And so I fell in love with that and then thought you know, I think Aveda was the next cast album, I got singing the top of my lungs like just in my I was I think like 12 or 13 Singing Aveda. And then, so I loved it. And I went to an arts high school. But I also really liked school. And so I actually thought I would become a lawyer. And I went to Queens and didn’t take drama. And then like within two weeks of being at school, like I was so miserable that I like auditioned for the school play that to do Wizard of Oz, and I kind of didn’t look back and then I guess a year later like because of my origin story with like a redheaded orphan. I went and crashed the auditions for Anna Green Gables in Charlottetown. And that was my first job. So yeah, and then it So it became real.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah. Now you saw Annie Have you seen the Vita? Or did you just like just discover the soundtrack?
Tracy Michailidis
I have never seen a Vita. Oh no, that’s not true. I when I was in Italy 25 years ago, I saw a touring production in Florence of Aveda, in English with Italian actors. But I had never seen it. I just, I would go to the library a lot as a kid and I got the, you know, those old albums would have all the lyrics on them, right. So I got the original, the first one I listened to was the Julie Covington, the concept album. And so I just listened to that. And I just learned it. I just knew I knew Andrew Lloyd Webber was a composer and I just loved it.
Phil Rickaby
It’s funny to me how sometimes those original cash recordings are gateways to the theatre. They were my gateway to the theatre back in back in 1970. When I was listening to soundtrack, my parents had Oklahoma, my fair lady and Godspell. And those were like, I heard them and then I started to piece together as a child. Oh, these have stories. This tells us this is a story these songs lead into them and they’re so I became fascinated by that. And that’s kind of how I discovered theatre was through the sound the cast recordings.
Tracy Michailidis
That’s beautiful. Yeah, I mean, it’s funny, my parents, we we did have we had some Beatles albums. I think it was like the 1963 to 1966 like the red the red ones. And that for me was like, I think pre any the gateway like because, I mean, there’s such Lennon and McCartney, such good songwriters, right. And like, even songs like Eleanor Rigby, and Norwegian Wood as a kid, like they sort of touched something inside of me that I loved Rafi too. I love those albums. But these lyrics, like there was something about the story and the story songs that I that I loved. And I think, and then Abba, I remember listening to an Abba album as well. And hearing the winner takes it all the way before Mamma mia, I found that song had such high drama, like as a 10 year old, I was in love. So I think those albums actually sort of set set the stage, if you will, for those other other albums to come in. And we’d already have my appetite, you know, a little whetted like for story.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, storytelling is so powerful. And storytelling through song is even more powerful because the music helps tell the story. So it’s, it’s a powerful tool for telling stories. Yeah. So you crashed the auditions for Anne of Green Gables. Aside from the book, Were you familiar with the musical at that time? Or was this like, had you heard this soundtrack? That story? Or was it completely? Like, you’re just like, I know, this is a show. I’m going to do it.
Tracy Michailidis
kinds of Yeah, I did not know the musical. I didn’t know anything about the musical. I knew it had been running for a long time. But I honestly think it was like, I think this was like 94 where there was like a bit of a recession if I’m not mistaken. Like people were having difficulty getting jobs at like TD Bank. I remember. And I and I knew those books. So well. And I love those books so well that I think it was. Yeah, I just thought I know this character. I know this character. And I know. So I didn’t know the musical at all. And then I remember getting a call back and yeah, having to learn a scene and a song. And I never I had to learn it for the audition. I had no idea. So it was really quite a trip.
Phil Rickaby
Did you did you know anything about auditioning at the time? Or was it like were you completely green?
Tracy Michailidis
I mean, the only audition I had a horrific audition the year before I remember for lame is at the Neptune. And I didn’t know that you’re supposed to bring your music in a binder. I didn’t know I just brought us on time collection. And like old guys and like she had to hold it open. But it kept falling on the ground. I mean, it was horrible. I felt so bad for that accompanist. And she didn’t say to me very kindly, like next time, you know, put it in a book. So I did that and that was I bombed it. And so So it’s funny because then when I did the end of Green Gables audition that I crashed. Funnily enough I brought a song from Aveda. And I brought which is maybe a little inappropriate, but I brought the mistress is song like another suitcase in another hall. I mean, she’s a mistress in Aveda. But I was like she’s got a suitcase and she keeps singing where am I going to? And it’s about somebody who keeps hoping against hope. So I always my sheet music was in the binder. And the wonderful friend walked in who was a musical director there for many, many years in Charlottetown played it beautifully. And, and yeah, and I did that audition and I remember I didn’t have an agent at the time and getting a call, I think about a month later from the director and he’s like, we’d like to offer you and and I was like happy and then I hung up because I was like I don’t know if he means the part or the show like I actually so I called my mom and my mom Like when you asked to call them back, I called them back was like, Do you mean the part because like, I’m not really a dancer? And he’s like, no, no, yeah, we want you to play N and Shirley. So
Phil Rickaby
that’s a legitimate that’s a legitimate question though. Like, because which is going to be the soul and the character a name is same thing, right?
Tracy Michailidis
Well, and it’s like, you know, I teach and I always feel like, Oh, back in the day, because of course, if it was today, like, maybe the age of maybe somebody wouldn’t call maybe I’d get an email and the email would have the offer and it would say the role but back in the day, you know, just get a phone call. And I think to wonderful Jacqueline mais credit like Jacques called me, you know, I mean, often the, the director doesn’t call you to offer you the part, but I think she did that. Because he knew I was I was green. And at I was at Queen’s at the time, and one of my dear friends and professors basically served as my agent, because I didn’t know like, somebody’s gonna pay me to work. Like, we don’t need to negotiate. So it was definitely like a huge learning experience for me. Yeah, that,
Phil Rickaby
at that point, why would you even think that there’s a negotiation, you get a job and they can’t tell you what you’re paying? What you’re being paid, right? Isn’t that what you do?
Tracy Michailidis
Exactly. And like, you’re flying me there, and I get to stay in it, like, great, like, get to do what I love doing. Because I think even though I had thought about doing it, that was a real like, turning point in my life. Like I really that sort of, and I’ll say to like, as much as I loved, love being in Charlottetown loves playing that part. Love the family of theatre artists funny. My birthday was the other day and two of the gentlemen on the crew there who are both One of them’s their late 80s. And one of them’s in their late 70s Send me beautiful cards, like we’re still dear friends, and we became friends 30 years ago, right. But I lost my train of thought. That’s what happened. Was he saying
Phil Rickaby
they were talking about about, you know, the the early days they were being in Charlottetown? Oh, yeah,
Tracy Michailidis
they’ll just, uh, yeah, right. That’s my, yeah, my my teacher at the time had to, he was just basically he served as my agent and negotiate because I just, I didn’t even know that you could do do what you love doing, get paid for it go away. And oh, I don’t want to say it. Because even though I loved being out there, I will say it gave me I really feel like one of the best things that gave me was that I went back to Queens to do my third year. And then my fourth year, having worked professionally and I really felt like Zen I actually was like I’m going to do is just straight plays this year straight plays, whatever that means. I’m going to do plays I’m going to serve because nobody’s going to come review me in Kingston, right? Like, I’m going to take chances and fail. Because maybe this maybe I’ll have a career maybe I will, but let me enjoy. I really enjoyed the sort of insular nature of being at a training institution, right. And sort of the cushion that that allows you and getting to take classes and, you know, spread myself in other ways.
Phil Rickaby
That you when you started, you started at the university in the law programme. And were very quickly miserable. Did you immediately like switch out of the law programme or go into the theatre programme? And did you stick it out for I
Tracy Michailidis
was an English I wasn’t English. Okay. Okay. Yeah. But I did switch. I became a drama English major. So I did yeah, eventually, I eventually switched.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah. Right, right. Now, speaking of of education, you’re also a teacher? How long have you been a teacher for what do you teach and what drew you to teaching?
Tracy Michailidis
I guess I’ve been teaching for about 15 years now. Now. I, when I was at Queens, there were a lot of my classmates who are in the concurrent education programme there. So I wasn’t in like a fine arts theatre programme. A lot of the students in my class didn’t want to become actors, but want to become drama teachers. I love that because I went to an arts high school, and I’ve never been one for like, competition makes me stronger. I’m pretty competitive within myself. I really loved that. My programme felt really like laid back in a way. But I never wanted to be a teacher when I was at Queens. And I think part of it was, I had some teachers when I was younger, who said one or two things that really stuck with me. And I just thought, I don’t want to that responsibility feels too much. I don’t want to like mess some kid up. So I stayed away from it. And then I guess when I got in my 30s, I was taking classes all through my 20s and 30s. If I was away, I would take class and I just I love being in class. I still do I still take class. And and I took a class in New York that I really loved. I came back to Toronto and my partner at the time was like, Well, why don’t you just teach the class that you took in New York, teach the class you want to take? And it was huge. And so we just saw That’s what made me decide to start teaching, in a way because I wanted to take a class. And I love it. I mean, I’ve been teaching my own class, which is sort of an acting through song. Sort of what we talked about a little earlier, Phil. Also, I from those days of, you know, again, you can relate to this, like back in the day, there was no YouTube to look up songs, you’d go to the Toronto Reference Library, get some albums, sit at a station, go through the books. So I have kind of an encyclopaedic knowledge of music, theatre rap. And so one of the things I do is give people wrapped material, I also love shopping, I’ll say like, I love clothes shopping. And, like, I also at one point wanted to be a personal shopper for someone, I feel like giving people songs is kind of like the personal shopper version of that, where, you know, if you watch good make the I think the good makeover shows or the good makeovers are, you’re not changing someone, you’re just sort of bringing the things inside of them out, and things that make them feel more comfortable in their skin. So finding material and songs and stories for people that make them feel more themselves. And sometimes it means literally no lift ticket down a semitone. And suddenly, somebody opens up or let’s, let’s shift this around. So I’ve been doing that. And I teach for an organisation in New York City as well, prepping a high school kids to audition for college programmes. And, and sort of teaching letters, yeah, directing. So I love Yeah, I feel like the years of acting, I also feel you know what I feel like there’s some teachers that I’ve had, that are no longer with us, that have really impacted me in a great way. And so I do feel like this sort of lineage of what I can pass down to students through people who are no longer here, but I, you know, through my voice, I can share some of their ideas. And
Phil Rickaby
yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m thinking back to those days of spending lots of time at the Metro reference library, for example. Yeah. And just, like hours and hours and hours of like, looking through plays looking through, like song and synth trying to find the right song. And I think that finding the right song is a particular skill. I notice on like, on Reddit, in the actors subreddit, a lot of times people are like, I want this role, what’s the right song to to sing for that? And, and I’m more of a lurker, but I always want to be like, No, that’s the wrong way around it, you need to find the right song for you. And not the song to get the role. Because otherwise, you’re just going to shoot yourself in the foot because you’re not doing what’s right for you.
Tracy Michailidis
What was your song? Phil? What was your song? Or what is your song? On the I haven’t
Phil Rickaby
auditioned for a musical in so long? And so long? I if I ever auditioned for musical it will be if the world were like the movies from my favourite year?
Tracy Michailidis
Ah, that’s a great show.
Phil Rickaby
Yes.
Tracy Michailidis
Yeah, that’s great. Yeah, I agree with you. Like, I think I agree with you. And yet, I think, you know, sometimes when somebody’s wants the part, and they want a song like that, I think sometimes it’s a song that has a similar vocal range maybe, or the quality of the care. Like, if the character is a villain, they wanted me to pick a song that they get to exercise that within themselves. But I do think you can take a song. And there’s one teacher that I studied with, who will believe you could take one song, and depending on the audition, change it like change your point of view, change the person you’re singing, to change even the vocal colour of your voice to adapt it to a different circumstance, you know?
Phil Rickaby
I mean, that’s really interesting, because, you know, obviously, you know, the song is up for is you’re interpreting the song. I think a lot of times, some of us get stuck on the wage song on the original cast recording. And that’s, you need to go past that. And beyond that, if if you’re listening to that.
Tracy Michailidis
That’s right. I totally agree. Yeah. I mean, like, there’s a song do you know, I remember the song Time song I remember. No, it’s from Evening Primrose. Okay, I remember his thigh, it was the littlest thing that was, and I remember doing a class once where I got everyone in the class to sing that song, just so we could, I could show that it was a different interpretation, even if even if an actor didn’t choose, but just to have somebody sing that song because all our memories are different. And so we remember different things. And the song was eight different interpretations of that song. Because we’re eight different actors. And that song, you know, it’s pretty melancholy, but you know it, but if I, if I was to say, Yeah, you know, you have to audition. That was your song and you had to audition for a character that was a bit of a villain. You could tilt that song a little bit to that could be like, I remember this moon, you know, hope they don’t find out my master plan. Like there’s ways of there. That’s kind of the creativity, right? It’s like okay, how do I make Let’s flip this thing. And sometimes you can do that.
Phil Rickaby
Well, it’s also hard to find a song. Like a lot of times, you know, listen, I’ve been on the other side of the table for auditions. And even if it’s if it’s not a musical hear the same speeches over and over and over. And I’m sure that when musicals are happening, the unfortunate thing is, you hear the same song over and over and over. And you you would want the person who’s interpreting the song, not the person who’s regurgitating what it was like on the on the cast recording. And so your interpretation is super important. Yeah. Now, what was, is that where teaching is concerned and directing his concern, because they’re, they can be close, but different, right? Teaching and directing because they lead to different things. Did teaching lead you to directing or was directly something that sort of came? came along really separately?
Tracy Michailidis
I fit will teaching lead to directing for me, I think. I’ve directed readings over the years. And sometimes when I would teach, I would think, is this versus me wanting to teach or is this me wanting to direct but it’s like kind of a safe container right of a class? Where there’s no audience and and you know, I think in a way, that’s the best part for me about teaching a class is that for the students as well, you don’t have to worry about an audience and that response, right, it’s a little bit of an incubator playground. When I got to direct my first sort of professional job a few months ago, I have to say, like, it was, I mean, it was I thought, why did I wait so long? Like this feels so? Right. challenging, but in a way, I feel like, and I was nervous, because I hadn’t done it. But I felt like wow, like 30 years of acting. That’s nothing like it’s not nothing. Like bringing and working with all the directors I’ve gotten to work with. And I you know, I’m an actor who should directors will tell you over with me, I love asking questions. I ask lots of questions, no stone unturned. You know, I love doing my research. I love doing certain things that sometimes as an actor, I worry if it’s like too many questions and too many details. But as a director, those qualities, I was like, Oh, this is great. Like, I love asking these questions. I love actors asking me questions and the research, I really enjoy doing that part of it. And I’ve always been, I’m the eldest in my family. I’ve always been a bit of a connector. I’ve loved bringing people together. So the great thing when I teach my class, I love getting wonderful accompanists to come in and sort of creating that vibe. And as a director, it was great because now I have a set designer and a costume designer and a lighting designer and as a sound designer and bringing people together. And being at the helm of that I really dug. Yeah, I read a book. And were interviews with female directors a few years ago. And it was inspiring to me because they talked about how the we need new models of directing that it doesn’t have to be like a tyrannical, like I tell you where to go, what to do that actually that that it can be a collaborative process. And so, so that really heartening to me in terms of like, wanting to enter into an experience and it’d be a collaboration. I had wonderful actors who who were great collaborators, and, and I also really got loved like going no, I want this sound cue like two points louder. This light 10% dimmer. It makes a difference. Like I have such great attention to detail. And it was okay to do that as a director, which I, I did I love that sort of, if you will, that control of that. And, and learning and, and, you know, I hadn’t been in acute acute, but like knowing that when I saw it, my lighting designer, Jeff was wonderful. He’s like, you’ll know when you see it, you’ll know if it’s to this to that and you learn as you go, which I think you do as an actor too, right? Yeah,
Phil Rickaby
absolutely. Absolutely. You’re mentioning about the the process of rehearsal and how it doesn’t have to be tyrannical. I think I think every actor has worked with both they’ve worked with like a tyrannical person who is essentially like, we’re going to move you around the stage like this. And I’ve got it written down and everything is written down. And you’re going to move like this. And we’ve have other ones that are like, a little bit more free, a little bit more collaborative. If often, you know, I think we all have our favourites and the ones that we’ve enjoyed more. One of the things that I’ve been sort of interested in experimenting with in the rehearsal hall is trying to figure out like at the beginning, like what does each person need to succeed? You know, what does, you know, what do we need to give you to succeed in this role, or what do you want to get from this production? And if it’s just like, I just want I’m just happy to be working, that’s fine, but sometimes people want more Sometimes people need more to succeed in the role and how can we discuss that in support each person in the room? Will forgetting that. And I think that makes it a little bit more collaborative as well.
Tracy Michailidis
Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I think first days are really important. My first day, like, I really thought a lot about what and you know, we didn’t have a lot of rehearsal time. And so and the piece itself, it was a play called The other place, which is a beautiful piece of writing, but a heavy it asks the actors to go do a challenging places. And so I felt like for me, my responsibility was like to foster and facilitate a space where actors felt safe to go there. And also keep a sense of play. Sort of what we talked about earlier about the balance right of things. It always made me feel happy, like at lunch, when I would hear the actors like laughing their heads off at the in the greenroom. I was like, right, because just just that, that there’s a spirit of of that, and you can’t force that, right. It’s really challenging and, and every buddy is different and every day. So being in touch with that, and just trying to trying to listen more like I mean, I’ve been talking to you here, because it’s an interview. It’s an interview, right? You’re supposed to talk. But But I really, I feel like this shift. And I would say shift because I still love acting. But it feels like a bit of a paradox, because as a director, on some level, you feel like, well, I have to speak more, because I’m directing. But I think for me, it’s about I get tasked to listen more as a director and honing those skills, listening to my actors, listening to what even people are not saying, but you know, feeling was present and also within myself, too.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, they that, that, that that essence of like the actors at lunch, they’re laughing in the greenroom and that sort of thing that only has that can only happen when there’s trust in the room. Right? That can only happen when somebody isn’t playing people against each other. When When, when everybody is sort of getting along and things are warm. That’s when that can happen. That’s when the family is formed. That’s when it’s a beautiful thing. It’s so terrible when you’re in the room, and wherever it’s coming from some toxicity has come into the room. And that trust can’t be there.
Tracy Michailidis
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I’d like to think that yeah. And I mean, like I said, I think assembling like I had an amazing stage management team like, and this this space you’re in and you know, I was very, like adamant coffee and treats, you know, you won’t be putting, I mean, this goes back to Tim, who was my mentor in university, who was my agent when I was playing, and he would always bring loaves of bread and like pastries, and, like just food to rehearsal. And I think it’s really smart. Because the on some level, even if the actors don’t need it, they just know that they’re being taken care of a little bit. Not just as actors but as like human beings who need to eat food and who sometimes or don’t have time to do that. And so just to have that there. Yes, I think is really important.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, so important that everybody feels taken care of. And if you can engender that you’ve created a really great space. Now, just as we’re sort of drawing to a close so one thing that I do want to make sure that we talk about our games, because I know that that’s a big part of the some of the you really love. Is it for you? Is it is it all games? Is it every game or are there specific games that are like the ones that you really,
Tracy Michailidis
hold on? On big baseball fan? I see your blue and red and white shirt and blue jays. So I’m like, Oh, if the Blue Jays colours, so I’m a huge baseball fan. And I think so I love the game I love I think it’s such an elegant game that I love the pace of it. I I feel like I learned stuff from the game. But I also feel like a lot of those things can be really like related to like acting. And in terms of ensemble and in terms of focus, and yeah, so I love baseball. I watch Jeopardy every night. I love. I love a quiz game. I’ve been going to quiz nights lately with my family. We’re also big, like Trivial Pursuit people. And I grew up playing cards with my grandparents. Yeah, I mean, I think there’s something about like, all coming together to do something that’s very focused. And laughter like I feel like we’re also big younger family like we play Euchre so we can like play Euchre make jokes that like it’s it’s it’s Yeah, we haven’t done a lot of the like Settlers of Catan like are those like logic games but right names where we can sort of socialise and, and I mean, I’m an actor, I talk about my feelings a lot. Not everyone in my family is wired that way, right? Yes. Right. But but a game I feel like gives you what like it’s almost like a bit of a script. It’s a bit of a container, right? Yes, feel safe with it. And that I asked the question you did the answer will improv a bit. But you know, there’s something about that, that I feel like very close to my family.
Phil Rickaby
I know exactly what you mean about some members of the family and I’ve talked to my brother is not a big sharer of feelings. And so I will always have to, like if we get together, and he’s got stuff going on, he won’t talk about it. I sort of have to, like, ease into we have to come over we have to play some video games for about an hour. And then I can sort of like ease into the questions. But if it’s just like jumping in, he won’t he won’t go for it. So you have to like, I’m not tricking him. But yeah, we’re lubricating No.
Tracy Michailidis
Is he younger or older than you? He’s a
Phil Rickaby
year younger than me. Yeah, yeah. Now, the other board games so you guys, I mean, sometimes you get into like a family thing like, like Trivial Pursuit was trivial pursuit, something you played like as a as a as a kid?
Tracy Michailidis
Yes, I played it from when I was like, 12. So it was. So my two brothers, one of them year and a half younger, one of them nine years younger. And so when I was about 12, myself, my brother Alec, who was 10 and a half, and then my mum and my dad would play, so it was just us. And then as Peter grew up, we all played together as a family. And then a parent split up. But like during COVID, my brother Alec, his partner, Roberta, and I would play with my mom, every Friday night, like we did this for, like, over a year, a year and a half. And yeah, it was it was so great. I mean, some of those questions are, we would go to valley village and pick up like, we have nine different trivial pursuits. Now, some are really hard. But um, but it was great. I mean, so much, you know, we would play for hours.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, you also have to pick up new packs, because after a while, you kind of know the brushes, it’s not really fair anymore.
Tracy Michailidis
There’s a lot of questions like there are those old ones. And the newer ones, they got a bit cheap, and like the decks are like half full and right, like the older ones, like they were chock full of those. Yeah. So yeah, we did this thing, or my brother had this thing where because one of the decks, you’re right, didn’t have a lot of cards, we would use the same card, like if you rolled again. And if you did the same category, then we’d give you a new car. But if not, we would stay on that same card,
Phil Rickaby
right wouldn’t go through? Yes, no, that’s super important. Super important. I always had a problem with Trivial Pursuit. And just trivia in general, general, you know, as you do as in when you’re in this industry, you pick up a whole lot of things you sort of are a sponge. And so I know a lot of things. But if you asked me pointed a lead to about one of those things I forget entirely. Yeah,
Tracy Michailidis
you know, you do. It’s funny, like I the joke in my family, whether I was playing with my brother or my mom is, there would always inevitably be it’s either this or this, right? Like, like Romania or Ukraine, and we’d be like, Okay, we would just roll the dice, if it’s 123 is Romania, four to six Ukraine. And I would say like, at times, we get it wrong. Like, it’d be the wrong one. But we would just be like, say it out loud and try to say it and that’s why we’re your teammates would record.
Phil Rickaby
So that’s awesome. That’s awesome. But Tracy, thank you so much for taking time to talk to me today. Really appreciate it. Looking forward to seeing all the new when it opens at the red sand castle. Thanks so much. It’s been great.
Tracy Michailidis
Thank you, Phil. It was a pleasure to talk to you hang out for an hour.
Phil Rickaby
This has been an episode of Stageworthy Stageworthy is produced, hosted and edited by Phil Rickaby. That’s me. If you enjoyed this podcast and you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify, you can leave a five star rating. And if you’re listening on Apple podcasts, you can also leave a review those reviews and ratings help new people find the show. If you want to keep up with what’s going on with Stageworthy and my other projects, you can subscribe to my newsletter by going to philrickaby.com/subscribe. And remember, if you want to leave a tip, you’ll find a link to the virtual tip jar in the show notes or on the website. You can find Stageworthy on Twitter and Instagram at stageworthypod. And you can find the website with the complete archive of all episodes at stageworthy.ca. If you want to find me, you can find me on Twitter and Instagram at PhilRickaby. And as I mentioned, my website is philrickaby.com See you next week for another episode of Stageworthy