Genevieve Adam is a graduate of the George Brown Theatre School in Toronto and holds an MFA from the East15 Acting School in the UK.Selected acting credits include Star Trek: Strange New Worlds (CBS), The Big Cigar (AppleTV), Mrs. America (FX), The Handmaid’s Tale (Hulu), Stag&Doe (Capitol Theatre), Romeo and Juliet (Theatre By the Bay), Annabel (BBC4), Measure for Measure (Thought for Food) and Recall (Toronto Fringe) – for which she was nominated as Outstanding Actress in the 2017 MyEntWorld Critics’ Pick Awards.Her first play Deceitful Above All Things premiered at SummerWorks in 2015 and won several accolades including Outstanding New Play, Outstanding Production, and Best Emerging Artist. It was remounted at the Factory in association with The Storefront Theatre in February 2017.Subsequent plays include Bedsport (Newmarket National Play Festival), New World (Future Theatre Festival), Anatomy of A Dancer (Next Stage 2019), The Boat Show (Lost Souls’ Collective), and If The Shoe Fits, which won second place in the Toronto Fringe 2019 New Writing Contest.Her most recent play Dark Heart was named one of the top theatrical productions of 2018 by the Toronto Star.Genevieve is part of the 2023 Creator’s Units at the Capitol Theatre in Port Hope and the Guild Festival Theatre in Toronto.She is also the poet behind the whimsical #haikusofthepandemic series.
www.genevieveadam.com
Twitter: @FavourZeeBrave
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Transcript
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Phil Rickaby
I’m Phil Rickaby, and I’ve been a writer and performer for almost 30 years, but I’ve realised that I don’t really know as much as I should about the theatre scene outside of my particular Toronto bubble.
Now, I’m on a quest to learn as much as I can about the theatre scene across Canada. So join me as I talk with mainstream theatre creators, you may have heard of an indie artist you really should know, as we find out just what it takes to be Stageworthy.
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Genevieve Adam is a playwright and performer based in Toronto. She is the writer of the plays deceitful above all things new world, dark heart and more. As a performer she has been seen in thought for foods Measure for Measure, seven siblings recall and much more. In this conversation, we bond over our shared theatre school experiences, studying and working in the UK and then returning to Canada as well as how she started writing in the first place. Here’s our conversation
Genevieve you are a fellow graduate of George Brown theatre school.
Genevieve Adam
I didn’t know we were fellows Phil. I know that’s exciting. I got that about you.
Phil Rickaby
I went to George Brown in ancient times when the when it was in the warehouse and River Street yes
Genevieve Adam
yes way way back. No but but see I think we could be of a vintage though fell because I was there in those times too. We used to split between the castle Loma basement, which was also inhabited by plumbers and then the the warehouse at King a river.
Phil Rickaby
That must have been Oh, that’s when they were performing it King and river and classes were at cashola mercy you were there? Correct. Just so you probably were there like in that year, that transition period because they were there in the basement of Castle Loma for a year and then at a school in Kensington.
Genevieve Adam
Oh, yes. Yeah, I only heard about the school in Kensington. I never actually got to experience that other brand of exciting that was very cold. I understand. The castle Loma basement with the plumbers was very harassing. And then then the warehouse the king and river was very urban. I guess for lack of a better word.
Phil Rickaby
It was urban but I did hear a story about there was like some kind of hidden room. Oh, it had been discovered and greater than yes
Genevieve Adam
is the scuttle but that then it lives on forever. Yeah, I Yeah. I don’t know. Man. We spent a lot of time there. I never found this the secret cabal. I was I was a young person there. I think it was I want to say like 99 to 2002 or something that sounds about right. Or 98 I don’t know who could too long ago now. Who knows?
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, it does feel it does feel a long time ago certainly
Genevieve Adam
does.
Phil Rickaby
Now, you’re Were you always a sub Did you always feel like acting was your thing or was writing your thing or how did what was your theatre origin story?
Genevieve Adam
Oh, um, I think I Shas My parents just needed a hobby for me really like I just started doing community musicals about the time my brother was born. I think they were like your do this. Yeah, so I just just kind of did communities sing along musicals all through my young life. And yeah, I don’t know. I just felt that that acting acting was the thing writing was not a saying at all. And in fact, having been at George Brown, you will know that they gave us many lectures to the to the effect of you will never work. You will have to make your own work. So Here is some devising courses and blah, blah, blah, to which I paid zero attention. I was like that’s for other people, I will clearly be going on to be hired by others. My entire career, right? So I never thought about it seriously at that time.
Phil Rickaby
Do you know, what is really interesting about that is I can see this shift in, in faculty around that time. Well, yeah, necessarily need to do that. And nobody ever talked to us about production or self production. At one point, I remember, you know, this is back in the days when they needed to cut people. Yeah. And programme. Yes. And I was told at one point, well, you know, maybe if, you know, if you if you really need to perform, you could do things at the Fringe Festival, that was like the fact that I was near the, you know, because I spent a lot of years like being like, what we’re thinking about cutting you and that’s one of the thing is that, and, but it’s, that’s a huge change from you’re never going to need to self produce, because we’re training your how to get work to self producing is a necessary part of your theatre career. And that’s kind of huge as far as like that shift goes. Um, but as you were saying, You, you, you were like, other people are gonna have to Yeah,
Genevieve Adam
it’s all in the I had caught the waves, I could be further ahead. And they brought in really exciting people who were making their own work and self producing, like now I just think, Man, I should have, I should have noticed those connections, but it’s what I was just like, this is an interesting two weeks, until we get on to the real stuff. You know, I didn’t pay any heed in my, in my youthful exuberance, which was a mistake, because it is the way forward. But it is funny how things have changed. Right? And it’s yeah, it’s funny to the destiny that your your theatre training complete for you. Which you should not listen to? Because they don’t know.
Phil Rickaby
Well, that’s absolutely the thing, because you know, you’ll find like there is there every every class has the golden children. Yes. Uh huh. You know, and they’re the people who get, you know, they get leads, they get this and, you know, but there’s that’s no indication that, that that, you know, of what’s going to happen outside of school.
Genevieve Adam
No, exotic. Yes. Monica doesn’t have anything. No. And I mean, it’s interesting that people who are still working, I don’t think, you know, certainly weren’t those people. And sometimes, like, people got really exciting story jobs out of school. And we were like, Oh, that’s it, you know, they’re off. Now they’re launched, and then it didn’t, you know, they’re not acting today. That was maybe their one big thing, or, you know, a couple people one door and we were like, Oh, well, they’re set. But the men never worked at you. Like, it’s, it’s just funny, you know, it’s it’s not a straight linear path. No, by any stretch of the imagination,
Phil Rickaby
one of the things that I find interesting, and this sort of started to really, like, kind of make me angry after, you know, 10 years after Theatre School is thinking back of the people who got cut. Yeah. And, and, you know, they would say awful, well, we just don’t think that you have a, either, we don’t think that you have a career outside of, you know, career ahead of you, where you’re, you’re not a good fit for the school. But mostly, it was sort of like a you, we don’t think that you have a future in in the industry. And I sort of was like, about 10 years after it’s like, how dare you make that assumption? You don’t know.
Genevieve Adam
That’s interesting. See, cutting in my time, was more like, you guys are spending too much time raising every weekend, you need to you need to, like do some work. I mean, I mean, you know, that was just most of it. I don’t know if there was anyone who was cut who didn’t kind of find it a blessing, you know, like there were I it’s, it is interesting, because our year for whatever reason had kind of a an okay, time of it. Like certainly the folks directly ahead of us. And the folks directly behind us did not have a good time at the school for reasons that have been debated here and there and widely about what the culture of the school was at that time. But for us, it was it was really like, and I’m sure someone will pop out of the woodwork to correct me, but I can’t remember someone being cut who wasn’t ready for that or kind of moving in that direction, or who was just a bit like I’m just kind of biding my time while I figure out what to do. Yeah, I don’t know that I recall. I mean, who knows? I think at one point, we were all on probation, though. Most of us I certainly. Well, it was like, Oh, I gotta get your stuff together. Kids. You know, we were
Phil Rickaby
we were too afraid to go raving. We were too afraid to. We didn’t I mean, first off, first off, I’m gonna be honest with you. I was at the school pre rave culture, okay, because I’m an old man. So Oh, we were really kind of afraid of, of, you know, a split. Once you those first few people get cut, you’re like, the fear runs through this. It’s good. Unless you’re one of the Golden children, the fear just runs through the class. And that’s, that’s kind of a terrible environment to create it.
Genevieve Adam
It is. Well, that’s interesting. Like, that’s what happened to me like, that’s why I got put on probation actually is because, you know, that Christmas of second year, right, before we move into really big projects, period study and all that kind of stuff, which is an eight hour Theatre Festival for those of you who didn’t go through the George Pell programme. Yeah, I think I think I had just kind of tapped out in second year, I was like, I’m not going to engage emotionally with this process. And you know, that’s where I got put on probation. They were like, we need you to come back, we need you to come back and start, you know, get really daring to do stuff again, as opposed to just kind of sitting there on the sidelines, cracking boxy with sarcastic remarks, which is sort of where I’d gone. And I wonder, and looking back if it was if it had something to do with that fear. Yeah, cuz it’s not nice. It’s not amazing. I don’t even know I don’t even know if they do silicate people. Now, what with it being college affiliated? I don’t even know if they can do that anymore.
Phil Rickaby
I mean, they always I mean, they were very clear to us that they marked us that many of the teachers were encouraged to mark as low so they could cut us, right. Yeah. So because they, you know, what’s an A actor as opposed to an a mine? Is? That kind of joke is what they would they would say, but they, you know, they had the ability to cut us because they they marked us low. They were say the comments are what matter? Not the grass. Oh my gosh, yeah, right. Didn’t change that was allowed. And yeah, so you end up with with with that, as I understand it, they haven’t cut people from the programme at that school. Right? Several years.
Genevieve Adam
Right? You gotta wonder I mean, what’s, what’s a bigger cruelty, right to like our year, they admitted 33 people, and we finished off with 14 You know, six women and eight men, and you say, that even probably is too many. So is it better to call us down men or could just release 40 actors into the into the system every year who aren’t going to work anyway? I don’t know. And then I hear that other programmes like at your work, they cut people, but then they say, Hey, you can go work in makeup. And Steve, you know, they kind of just mirror them over there into production, which is probably a bigger path to working like, golly, if you’re a stage manager. Now you’ve got your pick these days. Right. So
Phil Rickaby
I mean, I, York at York, they do start you with like a general course. And then they sort of add a stream you into the courses after that, right. But I think what they’re finding now is that people, if you let them self select,
Genevieve Adam
what you should write, you should Yes, it will self select, but you
Phil Rickaby
I think you need to give people the the option. And I think that they found that people generally tend to say, You know what, not for me. But I think when you start cutting people, there’s other people who like dig in their heels. And again, I’m not fucking getting out of here. Unless you guys make me.
Genevieve Adam
Yeah, I know. There is some of that or you know, like, yeah, there were the surprise cuts, you know, the ones you didn’t necessarily see coming, and then people would get all what’s the word fat faction all about it, right? Like, if that was your friend or whatever, especially as it went on? Yeah, it’s it’s a tough, tough system to navigate. I mean, I’m not sure I would recommend to young people to go and just go to school these days. You know, I’m grateful I did it. I also had the opportunity to do it again, when I went to England to do my masters at a different school at East 15. And that was a whole other kettle of fish, right? Because that was a one year master’s programme with people at all different stages of their careers. And, yeah, that’s where I was really like, Oh, this is what people say about theatres. Because it was not nice. Like, it was not pleasant. There was no camaraderie. Right. I was like, Oh, this is this is what people go through. You know, I was lucky at George Brown. Right?
Phil Rickaby
Yeah. What’s interesting is I remember, you know, in the course of the time that that I was there, and I don’t know if they still do this now. Or if they did this in Florida, he talks a lot about, you know, the process is to break you down, and then we’ll build you back. Oh, yeah. And they spent a whole lot of time breaking us down and almost and really no time with the
Genevieve Adam
building. Yep. Yeah. I remember the zone of silence. I don’t know what that existed in your Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Man, that was so again, for the uninitiated. I don’t know how you guys did it fell. But in our day, it was like you were in a classroom. And you just you were given certain tasks, like go into a room, unpack your bag to be done in total silence for like months on it. And it didn’t matter what you did. It was always wrong. Yes, Donald had spent like hours sitting there watching your classmates do stuff like So Dell, of course, right like most of it and just thinking, oh, man, I’m gonna go crazy appear fair, you know and clown was another one. They’re just like, Okay ultimate humiliation. Right? I mean, that’s the basis of claps so it’s yeah, it’s quite a process. Yeah, I old.
Phil Rickaby
I remember thinking later, years later, after you being out of school for a while being like, I think I’m ready now to go back and do the zone of silence. Because as a punk ass at any age, I don’t think I was ready for what that
Genevieve Adam
100 If God Oh, 100% not no, it is so true. Like, you know, I was Yeah, I was like, 18 When I went to George Brown, when I went to my master’s programme, I was like, 26. And same thing. We had a movement class, we had to, like lie on the cold floor, on a pole with our legs in the air. And it was exactly what we had done. A George round was at George Brown every morning was like, Oh, this method. And this time, I was like, Oh, this is the best. I’m grateful to be like this. Paul, you can still know what you’re missing. So there is I think there’s there is an element to that. Right. You know, you have Heiser?
Phil Rickaby
Yeah. There’s certainly a point of because I think that the insecurity is so high when you go in Well, young percent. Yeah, that some of the offerings, you’re just not able to accept. I know that I wasn’t no 100%. And it wasn’t until later that I was like, You know what, I think now I could really throw myself into that. But also, I don’t want to
Genevieve Adam
Yeah, yeah, it’s it’s the red stage of life. And it’s the wrong stage of life. Certainly the the folks who are a bit older than I say, 18 year olds, I think probably did better. But you’re probably spent more time being like,
Phil Rickaby
yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. I don’t. Peter Wilde was our head of,
Genevieve Adam
Oh, yes. I had I had Peter for period study. We just passed, bless. I know,
Phil Rickaby
wow. He used to, we would be doing something and he would when he was giving notes. He just stopped. Sometimes you say, I wish you were 30. You should. You should not come back to me when you’re 30. He would say we will all be like, No, I’ll be practically
Genevieve Adam
dead by any level in my life will be over Peter is to say to me, he has to be like you are not a beautiful young woman, which is gone. But you must learn to be or else you will not get on. And I’d like to get up here. I don’t want to get on better. But you know, Eddie years later, when I did start writing, I would I had my first play in some works. I mean, bless him, you showed up, but he was like, Ah, nice. Now you want to stop? And I was like, Oh, I’m quick. Yeah. Thanks, Peter. Like it was always quite supportive of that.
Phil Rickaby
No, absolutely. I remember I did. I did a production a number of years ago, with a theatre company called Keystone theatre. He came to our, our show of the belle of Winnipeg, it was like the opening night. And I remember him saying, in a real city, this show would never close. You know, he was like, always so like, sweat quotable, right, like the Yeah, a t shirt. But he was always always he was always honest. Yeah, you know. But let once he was all over your teacher, it was a little it felt a little less harsh, less.
Genevieve Adam
Yeah. He was again, he was super super harsh with people. Like, again, I don’t think I got the worst of it. But some of my classmates, I mean, he was very, as, as all the teachers were like, they could get really personal with people in ways that you know, people still remember to this day, like, yes, yeah, you know, and you want people to be honest with you. But I think I do think we really just need kindness because I think the mentality was a bit like sports, right? You got to be hard, and then the toughest people will rise to the top and that’s what you need. But you’re you’re discounting those who that might not be their style, that might not be their way. What they have to offer is no less beautiful, right? So and we’re kind of coming to that now or a rehearsal halls don’t have to be like this kind of frightening, kind of the loudest voice wins. I mean, that’s for TD writer room. sleeve that over there, right. Yeah, it’s interesting. We’re sort of hopefully switching a bit to be a little more inclusive, which is necessary, right? Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
I always felt like, you know, yes, there was a lot of the harshness and sometimes I felt like, there were a lot of teachers who were like, well, this is how I was trained. And so this is how you’re going to be trained, right? But I also know a lot of people who finished theatre school and said, God I need a year off now. And then I never went back to it. Yeah, for
Genevieve Adam
sure. Like of your class like are people still working? That you know a few there are a few rights
Phil Rickaby
there. There are a few I can count on one hand and yeah, we’re still in the industry from my class. Yeah.
Genevieve Adam
My it’s, it’s mostly the women beating the odds there ladies, but yeah, yeah, most most folks kind of you know, did a roll or two and then drifted away from it. It’s
Phil Rickaby
there. It is tough out there. I do also think that like, because of really how brutal the theatre school can be. You come out on the other end? You never had any kind of like, okay, here’s your little cushion before you head out there now. I’ll go fly my little bird. It was just like, well, you’re done. Get out there. And then yeah, was that it’s also hard.
Genevieve Adam
I know, I know, it’s just it’s very sort of anticlimactic and brutal. Yeah, first summer is a strange place. Some people were lucky, like, you know, I got a silly commercial right away. And I was just like, Oh, great. So this is how things are gonna go, I’ll just get some jobs now. And then, you know, that read out and are just like, oh, no, it’s the dark, the dark tea time of the soul. And, you know, of course, for me, because the school had said, my destiny was going to be these great things, and I wasn’t achieving that. So I was like, Oh, I must be doing something wrong. I was, you know, they said that this path was laid out for me. I must, I must have messed it up. And again, here’s that you’re like, oh, they didn’t know they were just throwing people up on the gaming table and just wishing them luck.
Phil Rickaby
They’re taking a gamble. It’s like, we think that this person is good at this stage in their life. And it is a gamble. It’s a gamble.
Genevieve Adam
They can’t see into the future,
Phil Rickaby
who can kind of feel like it’s bet I really feel like it’s best to let students go through let them self select. You know, if people are not showing up for class, you’re going to cut them right? Yeah. In that case, if people are are consistently late, and they don’t pull up their you know, pull, you know, they don’t tie up their shoes and get get things going or they don’t they’re not showing up for class you cut them but not for ability. But everybody we’re not for perceived ability give everybody the chance to prove themselves and they probably will without without the fear.
Genevieve Adam
Absolutely, absolutely. But uh,
Phil Rickaby
you you mentioned part of your you know, as you were, you know, your parents were they got ahead to give me something to do. Was it something that you asked for? Had you been like a? I know, my gateway to theatre was actually Broadway soundtrack house
Genevieve Adam
originally. Yes. classic, classic. Yes. Figuring out that
Phil Rickaby
Oh, like as a child, oh, these songs tell a story. That sort of thing. And that was like my gateway into theatre was yours. Just your parents being like, Oh, we could do soccer. We can just see these sorts of things. That’s something
Genevieve Adam
I think, my dad harboured slights, aspirations of theatre himself, which he never really went into. I do remember I went to see a Lion, the Witch in the wardrobe when I was young. And I was like, yeah, that so I definitely was asking. But I think it kind of dovetails quite nicely into the family’s kind of desires and needs that point to and yeah, but it was it. The disadvantage in doing it your whole life in like a small community where they keep putting you in stuff is that when I got to theatre school, I was like, Yeah, I know what I’m doing. Which was, which was ridiculous. I’m like, Well, yeah, no, okay. I’ve been in musicals. Since I was six.
Phil Rickaby
I do find out that actually well,
Genevieve Adam
and what I truly didn’t know was how to just not be caught of an insecure person. And or just not be like, Hey, guys, I’m feeling kind of rough about this, right? Rather than just be like, I’m, I’m sad, whatever, you know, I’m gonna like, just, you need to get out of your own way a bit, which only really, for me came with age. It was hard to do it at that age.
Phil Rickaby
Again, that’s that’s kind of like because we’re all insecure when we’re like, if we go to theatre school, when we’re like, 18, right out of high school. What do we know? We know nothing. But we think we know everything. And we’re also insecure. Which is a terrible way to try to learn.
Genevieve Adam
Yeah, and also, I don’t know about you, but first year was all about being like, these people are hot. Who all these people that I’m hanging out with every day and are like, sweatpants are hot. Everybody’s hot. You’re just like, everyone’s gorgeous. And it interesting and different and maddening. It was just how does a good works? That’s,
Phil Rickaby
I mean, I get that I did have but we I also, I also had a lot of this person’s good. Like, yeah, and also I wouldn’t struggling with like, you struggling with like, you know, the zone of silence for what feels like a year and trying to be like, when are we going to learn? When are we acting? And oh, I
Genevieve Adam
know. One forever, didn’t it?
Phil Rickaby
Well, it went on forever as just like, because I remember it was like a doctor’s office was the first one no doctors I had in the doctor’s office. Like Max, what am I supposed to do and the doctors like, just sit in the donathan knockers hours. And then there were like scenarios that were added and it but it was still silent. And then one person had the vocal breakthrough in his CDs. And I remember sitting like what like as everybody watching this scene as this person like builds up to didn’t even realise like they were fighting the urge to speak hard,
Genevieve Adam
because that killed it right. The minute someone spoke that was it was over,
Phil Rickaby
right. But then also, it was like That’s what it was supposed to teach us the value of, of words the value of speaking. Right, right. And so as this person is fighting, talking, everybody just sort of leaning more and more forward and forward and forward until they did spoke and speaking, yes, that entered the scene. But it was also like the seat. This is what it’s about is louder is earning the right to speak that sort of thing. And then we spend the rest of time trying to manufacture that.
Genevieve Adam
Yeah, I know, when you’re trying to org If you’re that if you’re that person who spoke and it was organic and beautiful, then you’ll always be trying to recapture it was never but you do because, you know, I was so good when I did. Yeah. Oh, man. Oh, man.
Phil Rickaby
Again, and again. I wish that I wish, you know, I wish I’d had the courage to say okay, you know what, I will come back when I’m 30 I’ll come back. Or even even at 25. Even, like, I’ll come back at 25. But, you know, I was like, I will be almost dead by the time I’m told.
Genevieve Adam
You do not have time. We don’t have time. We’re gonna get out there. That’s right. I’m gonna get out there and be amazing. Yeah, no, I know, it would have just felt like impossible. Right? Now. I’m like, Oh, we had so much time so much time.
Phil Rickaby
Time. Now. Writing has become a big part of of what you do. You’ve written several plays. And and some which have won some very prestigious awards. So I what point did you start writing and what was your your impetus to writing while
Genevieve Adam
I lived away in England for a long time, I went to did my masters there in film, TV and radio, just because I wanted a bit more media than we got it George Brown. And it was life was good. I was over there. I was working a lot. Everything was great. And so it was so great, that we decided to totally ruin everything by moving back to Canada, at which point all my work still. I mean, it didn’t quite go like that, you know, my partner was really homesick. There was some family stuff, we had a kid, there were a lot of good reasons, propelling us back. But I said to my programme, like, Oh, if we go back, it’s not gonna they’re not going to be impressed by what I’ve done over here. They’re really not it doesn’t work like that. And my partner was like, No, but you know, you’ve done good stuff. You’ve worked with the BBC, you’ve got like, blah, blah, I’m like, it’s not gonna matter. It’s not going to be Toronto, right? And he’s like, No, it’ll be fine. So you know, of course, it took nobody cared. It was it was actually really funny. Like, I came back, and it was all the same people that I knew, running the theatres, and I kind of did the audition circuit. Everybody was like, Oh, that’s really interesting, what you’ve been up to for seven years. What do you what do you been doing here? And I was like, well, nothing, because I’ve been over there doing stuff. And they’re like, Okay, well, come back when you’ve done some things. I mean, that was kind of the message, right? Like, in a way, we’re not really sure about you, you’ve kind of missed out like your peers who have been here have progressed and have been in something so summer stock. And, and you we just don’t know, like it was it was this real sense of like, get some stuff here. And then maybe we’ll think about working with you. And I’d like fast and perfect. Yes.
Phil Rickaby
That’s fascinating, because I know, I know, people have done the trajectory where they’ve done a few things here. You know, they maybe did a season, the Stratford season, it’s shot. And then they went to New York, and they had a they had a role in a show in New York. And then they came back from that, and everybody was like, No, you are every
Genevieve Adam
one. I know. I know. And that’s kind of what some people said, they’re like, No, you’re gonna have England on your resume. Now, it’s gonna be great. But I don’t know if I didn’t do the big enough things here first. Because, you know, out of theatre school, I got some things I was like, yay. And then there was a real big dry spell. And I was like, Well, what should I do now? And that’s where the England plan came about. And I think it’s it just didn’t work out. Well, for me, I don’t know, maybe they were just like, you’re just not good. They should have just told me that rather than being like, go do some work, you don’t know what he like, I basically fell out of the, you know, I didn’t know anybody anymore. And it’s interesting because this this hat, this definitely was a thing. I was like, Well, okay, so, you know, I was kind of bummed about that and had to get a really boring Joe job working in insurance. And you know, and then, you know, a bunch of people died in my life, and it was just bad times. It was not a happy scenario. And I was just like, who would move to this country man? I think it was a big year of the ice storm two, I think I think it was that big ice storm. 2013 Or two, right? Well, at Yeah, cuz there was a moment of like, being in our shitty rental apartment with like, our baby who we had moved from friends and comfort and a big support system. And like, literally like shivering in a bed, please no power just being like, pluck this man. So I mean, a lot of it was really born out of like despair and grief and just being like, well, I got to do something to channel these feelings. And so I wrote a play as as one does, as no one ever does. But also I was thinking a lot about this idea, like, what is this country? Like, why would people come to this country and I didn’t thinking about, you know, the first settlers who came over and you know why they did that and I’d also kind of bounced around this idea of talk Think about the CD Wewak. Like the young French women who were sent over to marry, whatever hairy, smelly, white first rappers were out here. And just thinking about, like who those women were. Now, it’s interesting, like in French, and in Quebec, they’ve explored that really well. They’re really into that side of their history. They’ve made lots of movies and miniseries and stuff about it, but it didn’t. It didn’t seem to be like, there were too many stories that I knew of, that involve that. So out of that kind of juicy cocktail of sorrow or desperation, and homesickness and loss and curiosity, came my first play, which I wrote in 2014. And some, you know, submitted places because why not, and it got picked up at sub works. And you know, the first thing they said when they called was they were like, We don’t know you, who are you? Who do you know, that we know? And I was like, oh, man, it’s perhaps it’s just a country club. But yeah, I was really. It was it was interesting, but it was it was very lucky that they decided they liked it. Yeah, yeah.
Phil Rickaby
It’s interesting. You know, the, I think, you know, you mentioned that in French Canada, they’ve explored a lot of their history. I think that, you know, that’s something that they’ve done, because there they hold really fast to their Frenchness. Yes, and that history. And whereas an English Canada, we don’t tend to dwell on our history know, very much. Especially not theatrically, which means not anywhere. Other way, it’s pretty
Genevieve Adam
ugly to a lot of it right. And I mean, a lot of the earliest stuff his only written in French, so there’s lots of practical reasons it doesn’t happen. And, you know, once you get into start trying to explore a female side or a non coloniser ways, it becomes even more interesting and more Sarney. Yeah, it just, it just really seemed like a good metaphor to try. And, I mean, it was also like, you know, Idle No More was, it was really rising at that point. And it was a really good moment for me having been away and kind of returning to the country to be like, Okay, what is this country? And what is, you know, our relationship, my relationship, as a settler with these issues? And how do I engage with it and try to find my way, you know, feel like I can belong here, because I certainly didn’t at that point. So. Yeah, at all. And what kind of all of that came about? Yeah, my first play. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
And then you kept writing? Yeah. Yeah, I
Genevieve Adam
did. Well, that play got it was nice. You know, it got put up with summerworks. And people came and saw it, and people were interested in it and wanted to know more about it. And then storefronts that was, picked it up and programmed it in their season. And then unfortunately, they went under this so they they unfortunately lost their space. A month or two before we’re supposed to put the show on the rebound of deceitful Yeah, it was it was rough New Year’s Phil. That was a rough call to get on that New Year’s. I was just feeling ah, ruin row one for me completely. I was supposed to be going to see Rogue One that night. I was just like, not only is this movie depressing. I was like, come on in Star Wars. There’ll be a happy ending, oh, cuts. Yeah, my broke one. But you know, we found a way we kind of rallied, and the factory stepped up to kind of support so we ended up kind of moving the show into their studio space. And we made it happen, which is, which is really cool and amazing team of actors who just rolled with it, and were really amazing. And then, you know, from that, another play happened that went on at the assembly theatre, and that’s the one that really kind of got a lot of accolades. For whatever reason, people were just like, hi, I really like this, this weird dialogue of settlers and, you know, indigenous folks that has some jokes and some sexy bits, and some Naofa hits. Great. Love it, you know? Yeah. And then we were set to do the third one. Right before the pandemic, that kind of kibosh that idea for a while. Yeah, yeah. We’ve all been there. Oh,
Phil Rickaby
yeah. I’m interested, something that occurred to me as somebody who’s who’s done was, you know, had some time working in in in the UK, and then and then come back to that to this country. As far as theatre goes, we don’t treat our theatre particularly well. We, we said as we see it as as a frivolity. We see it as something that that is unnecessary. And yet, my perception, you know, the people that I know who live in England and and have been in England for a while till they, you know, they go to the theatre, they see value in it, and it’s like something that you do. Has that struck you the difference between the two? As far as like the value of theatre?
Genevieve Adam
100%? I mean, I think not exclusively, and it is changing a lot, because people are working very hard to make a change, but I do think a lot of theatre is still seems to be for worldwide people. And, you know, or, or at least not for them, but they are the ones who go, who had the seasons tickets. Whereas, you know, in the UK, everybody went, and, you know, there were a lot of reasons for that, because at the time, and this has changed, too. I mean, you know, I think in a lot of ways, I did come back at a good time, because a lot of money has been ripped out of the arts in the UK. And I mean, you know, like with their Brexit, they like things, those things have taken a turn for the worse there. But at the time, there was a lot of funding, so people could get very cheap tickets, there were a lot of use initiatives, a lot of outreaches to try and get people into the theatres who weren’t just old and wealthy and whites. And it works. And it is a lot more part of the culture that people just go and but I do think affordability is, and there’s so many theatres to choose from as well. I mean, yeah, you can, you can always be seeing something, but I did, I did definitely notice that like people just went as a matter of course, to all kinds of things that you would go with friends, you would go on out on a date, whereas here’s theatre is like an after? Because it’s it’s expensive, you know?
Phil Rickaby
Yes, it’s expensive. And also, I think sometimes it feels like an obligation. Yeah, you know, it’s, it’s not like one of the big Mirvish shows, which are seems to be the ones that people quote unquote, want to see. There’s a lot of I should see that, I think,
Genevieve Adam
yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, you know, if you know, people in them you want to go or you know, if you want to support a certain group you want to go? Yeah, I mean, I also definitely think there’s a big difference in how actors and, you know, are treated in terms of, you know, you don’t do a monologue in the UK. It’s ridiculous, like, do you just would not be asked, you would be asked to come in and have a meeting with the director and just chat with maybe read a scene with somebody. So that was another big learning when I came back. And I was like, Canadian Manuel Huck, right. And I have to go the reference lever, you know, I’m just like, a different, a different kind of relationship. And there’s, there’s differences in the rehearsal process, too. So yeah, it’s fascinating. It’s fascinating thing, but an overall, I still feel that there’s something very stratified about the theatre here. Well, I mean, it’s hard, though. There’s, it’s, it’s not the same. It’s hard to you got to make money and you got to, you know, it’s, it’s hard. Yeah, it
Phil Rickaby
is hard. It is hard. And I think there’s no, there’s no answer. Part of me thinks that there is, there is an answer somewhere in our history, about why we don’t value theatre, think it might go right back to the start of theatre in Canada somehow, like something about our makeup, because Americans tend to go to the theatre more than we do. And they have
Genevieve Adam
probably, I, I just think it’s the typical Canadian thing about, you know, feeling like we’re somehow not worthy. Like, there is that weird, like, Oh, we’re the second cousin, once removed at the table? I don’t know. Or, you know, it could just be want to know, America is a big country. I mean, you know, we’re so spread out, like our theatres and our things just for theatre, that’s, you can only you can be a big deal in Toronto and know those people that that you can go to Winnipeg, and that doesn’t matter, right, you know, and same with our West, like, a whole different thing is going on out in Vancouver, and on the islands, you know, and everybody has their their little clique that they’re in, and it’s all going great for them. But like there’s no connection, you know, those? No,
Phil Rickaby
there really isn’t, there really isn’t. And I’ve often thought that one of the great ways to experience theatre across Canada is if you can do it is a tour of the fringe. Oh, yeah, we’ll learn so much about the uniqueness of each city, not just their festival, but the people in it and the performers and what they like, you know, like I noticed, you know, doing a fringe tour years ago, in Edmonton, they liked the silly, silly, they liked with comedy, they liked the sketch, and in other places, they’re like, I want something that’s a little more serious, right? Everybody has their own thing they’re looking for and you which is why just because you’re a hit in one city does not mean you’re going to be a hit and another it’s really interesting seeing those differences, but again, like you’re saying, we’re so spread out and far apart. Yeah, those things rarely crossover.
Genevieve Adam
No, it’s true. And fringe is super fascinating for me because when I left to go to the UK fringe was very fringe right like it was super rustling I was like, you and your tickle drug. You know, like I was at some fringe shows it back in the day that you’re just like, Man, this is rough people pay money for fast. Yeah. Whereas I came back and it’s like a slick animal out there. The Fringe has evolved and his leg you want to be in that fringe. Let’s punish had now
Phil Rickaby
some hits. Yeah some hits came out of the fringe and went on to bigger things and then everybody started chasing that, especially in Toronto. That’s right. There’s a less forgiving media landscape fringe. The audience a little less forgiving in Toronto, because we’ve had to kick in our hair. We’ve had Drowsy Chaperone, I think and we’ve had Kim’s convenience
Genevieve Adam
immediately. Yeah, they’re like, is this This better be the next Kim’s convenience. That’s what
Phil Rickaby
they were looking for. And it’s like, how can you be that? Yeah, so it is a little bit less forgiving than perhaps it once was. Even though it’s it’s fringe? Nobody’s nobody’s forgiving. It’s like, oh, I
Genevieve Adam
need somebody, the quality is so much higher, like, you know, it’s amazing what you can see for like 15 bucks and down at the Dallas, you know, work or wherever they’re doing it now. Yeah, it’s wild. And I was in a fringe show in 2017. I was like, This is big deal. Like this is when the viewers are coming. And we’re at the Theatre Centre, and we have a set Wi Fi off. Like, who would have thought in my day? I’d be like, Guys, the fringe has a set. It’s not wobbling or falling over their data here. And I’d you know, like for sure. Yeah. It’s very interesting how things Yeah, yeah. But I think
Phil Rickaby
that also, you know, the, as I say, the Edinburgh Fringe grew, all the other fringes grew as well. Yeah, it’s true. And so, you know, Edinburgh. I mean, we’re, we’re never going to be Edinburgh. Now it will. But, you know, we’re, you know, Toronto’s tender 33rd and Cana third largest. Yeah. Which is, which surprises people from Toronto actually to find out. They’re like, we’re not the largest. We’re not the largest. You need to go outside, you need to go travel. Yeah.
Genevieve Adam
Yeah. And I think that is key. That is key. And it’s, it’s a good, you know, everybody, every actor, if they can, should go and act somewhere else, because it’s a good reminder that, you know, whoever is not seeing you for auditions in Toronto, or whatever door you can’t bust out, it’s good to go somewhere else and be like, oh, right, it is just one place. You know, there are many places where this can happen. Because you can get very like, certainly before GenCon, I was just like, ah, you know, I was just consumed by whatever, you know, stage I was at in my relationships with the Shah casting people or the Stratford or the whatever, and you think you’re like, right, there are other ways of doing things out there, which is, which is healthy to remember.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, I do think that the difficulty of you know, because, you know, Salford production, as we were saying earlier has been such an important part of any theatre career in the last 20 years or so maybe more. And yet, you can’t always like fringe is the easiest path to that. But you can’t always rely on that, that draw, you can’t rely on a lottery
Genevieve Adam
that’s out. People can, I can’t but side pull seem to figure it out. I’m like, Guys, you are the luckiest folks. I don’t know how to do it. But they’ve got it figured out. Like I do know, some people who seem to always be in the fringe. And they have a good network of alliances where it’s like, okay, if they draw you then we’re going to work on this thing together. Like they’ve kind of, you know, leisure around work, which is smart, and healthy, and which I do, but didn’t have so much laundry and No, but seriously, I admire how other people work it. I mean, for me, Grant getting has been a real path to success. Sure. You know that my subject matter is very grant, a generally said, everyone loves to give you some money if you’re going to talk about settler indigenous relations. But it’s yeah, it’s not great. But I feel to that if you if you want to do the parts that you’re not being offered, then that’s a big motivator as well, like I’ve shown, which, I mean, that has really worked for people. I mean, people have gone on to have incredible careers because they wrote themselves the car that they weren’t getting anywhere else, you know, so that certainly, he has a way and for me, that was mostly about, you know, just really sort of angry, uncomfortable, sexy women. That that that was just, yeah, that’s sort of my wheelhouse. And that was not coming to me. So I’m just like, well, I just happen to do it myself speaking. It was funny, I didn’t actually like it would have been horrifying to me. When I was writing my first play. He told me I was going to be in it. That was not my intention at all. But then I was interviewing with a director who was maybe going to be involved in the summer show and they said, I’ll be involved, as long as you promise that you will not by any means act in this thing, because there is nothing worse than a playwright being in there saying, especially if it’s her first play, because then you’re really just going to look like some kind of dilettante. debutante you know, fully go project? No, nothing person that was like, Uh huh. I think I have good credit and this place. You can’t throw that down in front of me. You can’t and not have me pick up the dare. But of course, the joke did end up being a mix. And I did have to act in my own saying which right? Well, my own worst, like agony and, you know, you write that stuff from your heart, you never think you’re gonna have to act in and you do, you’re like, Oh, this is terrible. This is terrible that I have to do this every night. You know, that’s a Oh, you’ll learn some things.
Phil Rickaby
I do try to write something so that you know if I if I feel bad saying it, like if I feel awkward saying it. I know I have to rewrite it. Yeah, it’s good to sort of make yourself say the words that you like, this is not working for me. So I guess maybe I should rewrite. I
Genevieve Adam
was nauseous that like I wrote these big feelings. I’m like, Ah, I’m gonna have to go out there and cry and like, get upset every night. Because that’s what I wrote for some other actress to do and to have like, a bad love affair every night now. Didn’t think that went through just smart ass. I mean, that’s what it is. Right? That’s what it is. But it is hard. It’s very humbling, right? It’s incredibly humbling. Sure, like, I write this thing, go back to people, and then you could be like, Oh, is this tough? Actually, what I’m asking people to do. So as usual, is very humbling. And actors are so smart. I mean, they it’s one of the one of the biggest joys for me about writing my own stuff is that, you know, actors come and take it on with their brains and their bravery. And they make all the sense out of all the things that you know, barely made sense. So we’re at concept of a head like all look at the actor solving it got their amazing, and that is that is really cool. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, what happened with the show, that didn’t happen due to the pandemic
Genevieve Adam
show, that didn’t happen. So I mean, hopefully, it will still happen. We’re trying to kind of, thankfully, there’s a bit more grant money floating around. So we’re trying to make it happen. Now, the big issue is trying to find space, because so many spaces have kind of packed up or are trying to make it happen trying to, to work it out looking at some space. So hopefully that can happen around this time next year. That’s the that’s the goal. Be great to put it’s on on its feet. But meanwhile, the Canada Arts Council very kindly gave us a digital grant to to put all this replays on our radio, podcast worm. So Right. We’ve just kind of wrapped up the recording of that. And now we’re into the editing process. So hopefully, that’ll be out in the world this fall. So I mean, I would love to get the third play on stage, I think then finally, I could kind of put this particular New France demon to bed people are like, are you gonna write anymore? I’m like, oh, man, I don’t know, like, like five or six years at this particular obsession, I think it might be time to let it go. But yeah, it would be great to get it up on stage and give it a crack.
Phil Rickaby
Now, as somebody who wrote something specifically for audio, and who’s been adapting it for the stage, going the other way, taking a stage play, or in a series of stage plays at that, and adapting them for audio. What, what kind of changes? Are you finding that you have to make? Is it how what is that process like to take something that was for the stage and adapting it for audio?
Genevieve Adam
Well, the sexiness are a lot less sexy. We don’t need it, we don’t even intimacy coordinator. So there’s that pros and cons. I mean, yeah, there’s, there’s a lot of sex and violence in the show, which you have to figure out, right, you’re like, Oh, we’re not gonna be able to tell this story visually anymore. So sometimes you need to add in words that feel really clunky, like you need to name check people in group scenes all the time, like, right theurge Man On my left, you know, you need to, you need to be helping the audience because they can’t see right. And so that’s why it’s been so helpful for me to engage. There’s three different directors in the in the audio adaptation, one for each play. Aaron Brandenburg, who worked on the original deceitful Tyler Sagan, who did dark hard at the assembly, and then Keith Barker, who has been kind of a consultant the whole way through. And they were great, because some of them had previous experience with the stage version versions. And some of them had never done that. So they were really coming in and being like, this doesn’t make sense. I don’t know what’s happening here. If if I just listened to it, I don’t know. It’s not clear for me. And that was the ultimate goal was to try to just be clear. That was what I was trying to keep in my mind. And it’s hard for me because I know these things were intimately by now. So I’m like, of course, it makes sense. That smooching sound absolutely, it’s very clear. And they were like, it’s really not so, you know, we had to we had to have those discussions about and the actors were great, too. They would be like, I don’t know, will I talk? You know, so, for me just trying to bear in mind clarity. And, you know, you had to rewrite some stuff. I had to react to this stuff. I’m like, this doesn’t work. It doesn’t work. It relied on the visual of her holding the knife out at this point. So we’re gonna have to figure out another way. And yeah, he just has to be really humble and be like, Oh, It didn’t work that thing. So nevermind, I’ll write something better. Give me a minute. Yeah, that was really nice. It was really cool. And it was it was a nice kind of bookend because I had never really done radio plays until I moved to the UK where it is still such a thing. And I really enjoyed performing in them and listening to them there. And then now it’s kind of coming back here with podcasts. Yes, yeah. You know, and big companies like Stratford. It’s got an at home channel now where they’re gonna stream this kind of stuff and play me and all these, you know, it’s kind of coming back. So. So again, maybe this is kind of, you know, could be some good that came out of all that. Yeah, her garbage or the pandemic, I would rather have not had the pandemic, that’s fine. I don’t want to
Phil Rickaby
100% are where we are, right? No, you can’t. It’s the things that you can control. And I remember, like, like, as we were, you know, 2020 2021 2022 the way that theatres suddenly had to be like, well, things out of our control, like, how did we roll with this punch in a way that never really had to happen before? Like, yeah,
Genevieve Adam
it’s wild. Yeah. And it’s, again, very humbling to kind of see like, even you know, this theatre, we’re like, oh, you know, Stratford is got loads of money. Mirvish has all the money, but even they didn’t, you know, and even they were running on really tight margins. And, you know, I think Stratford last summer had 20% capacity, they were all cute, they were running out or something, and the idea was close and drink and hyper closed because of cola, you know, all this kind of stuff. We are Yeah, it just, it was sort of levelling in that way to realise all we’re all out here, just juggling balls, and, and the rent collectors at the door behind us, you know, like, it’s, it’s, it’s always been precarious, but we all now realise it right. So absolutely. And we keep doing it anyway. So
Phil Rickaby
that’s, that’s right. We’re, we’re committed to
Genevieve Adam
our empty where? Well, Genevieve,
Phil Rickaby
thank you so much for talking with me this evening. I really appreciate it.
Genevieve Adam
Well, it’s been a pleasure. So thanks so much for having me.
Phil Rickaby
This has been an episode of Stageworthy Stageworthy is produced, hosted and edited by Phil Rick. That’s me. If you enjoyed this podcast and you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify, you can leave a five star rating. And if you’re listening on Apple podcasts, you can also leave a review. Those reviews and ratings help new people find the show. If you want to keep up with what’s going on with Stageworthy and my other projects, you can subscribe to my newsletter by going to philrickaby.com/subscribe. And remember, if you want to leave a tip, you’ll find a link to the virtual tip jar in the show notes are on the website. You can find Stageworthy on Twitter and Instagram at stageworthypod. And you can find the website with the complete archive of all episodes at stageworthy.ca. If you want to find me, you can find me on Twitter and Instagram PhilRickaby And as I mentioned, my website is philrickaby.com See you next week for another episode of Stageworthy