Stevie Baker is a producer, director and costume designer based in Severn, Ontario. A prolific theatre creator and artist, she has been a part of over 30 productions in Toronto’s vibrant theatre community over the past 15 years. Stevie has been the Head of Production at Dauntless City Theatre since its inception in 2007 (originally Urban Bard). Her work with Dauntless is rooted in queering, subverting and modernizing Shakespeare to better reflect the dynamic people of Ontario. She is a director on the boards of both Arts Orillia and Mariposa Arts Theatre.
She centers queer joy, anti-racism and anti-poverty in her work, life and the raising of her two children. Stevie has worked internationally with Kansas City’s MET and served as Artistic Director of The Daegu Theatre Troupe in Daegu, South Korea. She orchestrated the DTT’s first touring show and directed South Korea’s first English language production of A Streetcar Named Desire in 2011.
Stevie is dedicated to the art of theatre and expression and is enjoying bringing her expertise, experience and methods back home to Severn since relocating in late 2020.
www.dauntlesscitytheatre.com
Instagram: @tristevietops
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Transcript
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Phil Rickaby
I’m Phil Rickaby, and I’ve been a writer and performer for almost 30 years. But I’ve realised that I don’t really know as much as I should about the theatre scene outside of my particular Toronto bubble. Now, I’m on a quest to learn as much as I can about the theatre scene across Canada. So join me as I talk with mainstream theatre creators, you may have heard of an indie artist you really should know, as we find out just what it takes to be Stageworthy.
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Stevie Baker is a director, producer and costume designer as well as head of production for dauntless Sydney Theatre. She’s also director on the boards of arts raelia and Mariposa arts theatre. She joined me to talk about relocating from Toronto during the pandemic, finding community after moving producing Toronto production from out of town and much more. Here’s our conversation.
Stevie welcome. Thank you so much for joining me. I’m just to one of the I was thinking about the fact that we kind of have been peripheral to each other. You’ve worked with my friend Adriana Prosser on her first solo. So you’ve worked on some friends of mine, you’ve worked the stage manager for a night feed. You’ve worked with dauntless, and I’ve known a few people on that. So we’ve we’ve known each other peripherally for quite some time, and this is our first time being able to chat. How do you describe what you do your artistic practice or your focus?
Stevie Baker
Um, I would say that at this point in my career, my focus is primarily producing and directing before the pandemic, I was doing a lot of costume designing. And, and I did do that again this summer with dauntless, his most recent show this earth of majesty, which was great, but I haven’t done it so much. But I mean, that’s kind of the pandemic is sort of just easing back in. I’ve done four shows this year, but that’s after a very dry couple of years.
Phil Rickaby
With those with those dry commie we’ve all had the dry couple of years, and we’ve all done preseason is that we’ve all done things. We’re not proud of what you’ve what we’ve all Yeah, thanks. And you know what, we should be proud of the things that we did. So I just want to put that out there. The things that we did creatively or otherwise. What did you have a creative outlet during the pandemic? Or were you completely like, just focused on survival and getting through the thing? I’m
Stevie Baker
kind of a combo? Well, really, so much of the pandemic for me was like, Yeah, survival for sure. Like we, of course, being working in theatre. My career really just grinded to a random halt. We ended up having to leave our apartment in Toronto and moving to southern where I’m from to move in with my sister. And yeah, so it’s been weird. I mean, I have two small kids, they’re six and nine now. So they did a year a virtual school. So it was really survival based. And I found myself like, as much as I wanted to have some sort of creative renaissance during the pandemic, which I believe it’s still happening. I didn’t for the first two years of it. I am someone who sews a lot. I didn’t really make anything I didn’t I don’t know. It was just really, yeah, survival mode.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, I get that. I mean, let’s acknowledge the pandemic is still going on. And we should all be masking and all the things that we shouldn’t be doing, which some people are not. Anyway, I don’t want to talk about that, because that’s a depressing topic. But I will, I will say, the first. Most of 2020 for me, was full of doom scrolling, there was no creative outlet for quite a bit of it. It was just like, what’s going on like that kind of like panic survival mode. But eventually, I was able to, to find some creative things to do. I, however, didn’t have children who needed to be virtually schooled and, and had to be cared for and that sort of thing. So the choice to move to Severn, was that I mean, was it a choice? Or was it like, we just can’t do this in Toronto anymore? And we need to, we need to go somewhere else.
Stevie Baker
It was really kind of that like, I remember when I told my parents I was moving home. Like I literally told my dad like, okay, hell has frozen over like, I am coming back, because that was never in my plans to ever move home. Yeah, so it was really like a weekend is like we were living in a pretty small, like windowless basement apartment, in the junction. And I mean, we, it worked for us at the time when we could be outside constantly, and that sort of thing. And once that became questionable, it was a problem. And with four people in tiny space, it was tough. And then August 2020, when we realised like, Oh, this is not wrapping up, and it’s likely to get much worse, once everyone starts, you know, once the fall happens, and school was not sounding promising to me, so we were like, Okay, we have to virtual school, these kids, and we cannot keep them in this cave, like 24 hours a day, it’s gonna be so bad. So it was kind of like, I called my sister one day, and I was just like, devastated. I was like, I think we have to come live with you. It’s like, okay, and then like, within a month, we were, we were there. It was really fast.
Phil Rickaby
I started 22. In 2020, I was living in a basement apartment, too. So I spent about a year of the pandemic, in a basement apartment while also predominantly working from home. So I sort of get that, but that was just me. I can’t imagine like, four people trapped in a basement. It said trapped in a basement. But you know, like that like that, like, I’m sure it did, especially during that year of like, you know, you barely picking your head out and things like that. As far as as, you know, having your creative life while in Severn, how does that look for you these days? What is what does it look like? Now as compared to where you were?
Stevie Baker
Um, now it’s moving into like a really fantastic place about a year ago, so I’d say October 2021. One of the like a community theatre group up here, Mount Marcos arts theatre, they were kind of starting to get people together for a show. So I submitted to direct a show for them, which I did do Steel Magnolias, and it was delayed, it was supposed to go up February 2022. And then it eventually ended up happening in April. So yeah, that happened. And that was really great. Like the actors were incredible. My stage manager felt like a pro. She felt like the kind of person I was used to working with on like dauntless shows was really nice. And I really connected with some of those actors. And I reached out to another group called Arts earlier, and they invited me to a few things they do. One of their main programmes right now is like this dance and design residency. So a dance company will come and work with like a lighting designer, costume designer, whatever to work on that element of a piece that they’re doing. So I did that. And then I started adjudicating on their panel for that. And now I’m on the board for both organisations. And I just produced Rocky Horror with Mariposa arts Theatre, which went up in November in which was their most successful show in like 20 years. So now things feel a little bit like they’re going somewhere. It’s different. Because it’s not necessarily a career in the same way. It’s hard to sustain yourself doing doing shows here as a career. But but the work has been really good and there are incredibly talented people up here and just like finding community He has been so so so good.
Phil Rickaby
We all need that we all need community. I often there’s there’s sort of that idea of, of the theatre community quote unquote. And I, I often, you know, we refer to it a lot, but I never really know what that is because we just have silos and those I guess our communities, but there’s no overall theatre community, I would imagine in a smaller town, that it could feel a little bit more like a community. Yeah, I
Stevie Baker
think so. Like, here, it’s interesting, like, I’m still really learning because there are like, community theatre is a completely different world than indie theatre. Like, it’s just it’s so so so so so different in ways that I wouldn’t have anticipated. And they’re all intertwined sort of through the region. So people know the people in Bracebridge, and the people in Barry and in Innisfil, and like, all of these different groups, and so I’m still learning who people are. And every time I’m hanging out with someone, they’re like, Oh, um, this person’s doing this, and this group is doing this. And I’m like, Wait, who are these people? What did those initials stand for? Oh, this happened. Because I’m very much like, I want to know everybody, I want to know what’s happening everywhere, and kind of where I’m gonna best fit. Like, for me, I was so lucky in Toronto dauntless. Felt like a huge community, even though it was often Well, not always the same people but sort of the same core group people. And I guess it’s just a segment of in the theatre in Toronto is like all the Shakespeare people kind of know each other.
Phil Rickaby
If that’s, that’s very true. Now, as a producer, now, I noticed you’ve done you produce the Rocky Horror Show, we also produced slaughter brothers dime circus, which was in Toronto. Was that a remote producing role? Were you in Severn, producing a show in Toronto? Or did were you commuting?
Stevie Baker
So that I was in seventh? So I did come like I did come down to the city to see the show. But I was producing remotely and it was kind of stacked with, with this earth of majesty, dauntless is show and that show because I was doing costumes, I was in the city far more frequently. Still, not really an ounce, but far more frequently. And then most of slaughter brothers was just Yeah, virtual and that was fine. In general, that kind of work. You can do remotely pretty successfully. But it was a different feeling. Like even though I have a history with Sean Sullivan and Lynn Gryphon and working with them, and I love them so much. It’s still was so different. Like, I, you don’t feel as much a part of the group and the like family that’s happening in rehearsals and things when you can’t be there.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, for sure. That’s, that’s, I think, as remote things continue in the theatre world, that’s definitely going to be a part of it. Because you’re missing the moments, you’re missing the things that are happening in the room. It’s almost like if you’re gonna do remote, there has to be a camera on in the room. So that like, you just sort of check in.
Stevie Baker
Yeah, yeah. Right. Because so much does happen in the room. And, and people forget, right, especially like slaughter brothers dime circus was a really, really small group, tight knit group. Most of us had, like, I hadn’t worked with everyone, but everyone had worked with Sean and Lenny. And you know, so things would happen in rehearsal. And then I sort of hear about them down the road. And I was like, oh, whoa, I had no idea that was a thing. Which is fine. But like, that’s the magic of being in the room together as all this great stuff happens. And when you’re just like, at home, occasionally checking your email, you’re not seeing it or experiencing it.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, yeah. For my for my day job for many years when we were in the office, or we had an office in Berlin, and we would have company meetings. And we would have the Berlin office would basically like video call in. But they would often feel forgotten, because we were just talking to each other in the room. And every so often, somebody would say, into a mic, please, just to remind us that they were there. It’s so hard, even if you’re doing it, like we were doing this weekly, and we would still fall into that. It’s like, it’s so hard to do consistently. Keep in mind to the remote people. And I wonder if the remoteness of the pandemic is helping us. Maybe do more of that since more people are remote, but again, rehearsal isn’t really conducive to that. So I wonder, are there ways that you can think of as a producer that that might be able to better facilitate that moving forward as we do more remote things?
Stevie Baker
Yeah, I wonder like we’ve done different things, because I have yet to work on a show, like I worked on four shows this year, which is kind of a lot going from zero shows. Uh huh. And every show had a COVID situation. Steel Magnolias, like we started rehearsals December 2021. And we had a table read together, and then everything went crazy. And so then we had to start doing virtual rehearsals, because at the time, we still thought we were doing the show in February. Right, so doing virtual rehearsals was something that I wasn’t really excited about, but nobody was really excited about. But it was interesting. Like, I find a lot of the times in my sort of rehearsal process like we’re up and moving around pretty quickly. And not necessarily sitting and doing a lot of table work, because I find so much comes from moving around and interacting with each other. So with Steel Magnolias, it really flipped, and I was like, Okay, well, we still have to do work, like we still have to be doing some thing. And so it was interesting, without that ability to move around and be in the same space together, it kind of forced us to talk a lot about character, and which we always do, but like in a very different way. And I thought that that was really interesting. And we got to know each other very well, and very closely, because no one was excited about it. You know what I mean? It was like the thing we all had to really do together. So that was the thing. And when we did our tech, one of the world, everybody’s elite in that show, it’s so small, but the woman who played Shelby was ill. And so I remember, we were in the really opera house doing our tech rehearsal, and I was playing Shelby on the on stage. And she was watching on a laptop. And we just had her like, plugged in watching the whole time. And she was sort of in and out. And we had a microphone kind of close. So every once in a while we could interact with her, which was interesting, like it didn’t 100% do the trick, but just sort of having for her, I think having us on in the background was helpful to still feel like they have a sense of what’s happening. Yeah, and then happen, I feel like something else that’s sort of helpful. And facilitating that is like more production meetings, that can have a bit of a casual element to part of them. Because if you’re connecting more frequently, you may not always have a technical thing that you really need to talk about, or enough to fill the time of gathering everyone. But you can chat about what’s been going on and be brought into, brought into the world a little bit more, which I think is really helpful. Yeah, so I feel like slider brothers, we had a good amount of production meetings together, which was really, really helpful because there was a lot going on with that show. Like there’s a whole projection design situation. And so that was great, because I could see some of that, like, we could have a Zoom meeting and they could show it to me, like just with a screen share, which is awesome. Is which is something you know, that would have been really difficult in the past had I not been able to go to the building.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Now, you’ve been working with Domus City Theatre, which was originally urban Bard, since 2007. And you’re the head of production. Where did you start with with that company and and what is dharma City Theatre for people who might not know
Stevie Baker
I’m dauntless is, I feel I love Thomas. I just feel like my smile got so huge thing here, but it’s really like my theatrical home. So dauntless is a site specific queer Shakespeare Company. And we do immersive theatre which is sometimes referred to as ambulatory or promenade style. So basically, we work our primary contract is with the St. Lawrence Market neighbourhood BIA, and so we are often working in Brizzy Park. This year, we were in St. James Park, and with our shows, the audience moves with us. So different parts of the park may be, you know, a palace and another part might be another country. And so Oh, as our actors move through the scenes, they’re pulling the audience to follow them to the next scene that just starts to happen as people are arriving, which is really unique and really accessible, all of our shows are Pay What You Can that are out outdoors. And we get a lot of audience who are just walking by, like, so many times, you know, someone’s just like going for a walk. And then they’re like, oh, what’s happening, and they stay and watch the show, which is really beautiful. But we’re really focused on I mean, we’ve always had what what’s sort of, I guess, originally happened with the company is what we were doing sort of which at the time in 2007, people would call like, I don’t know, like gender swap casting, maybe that sort of thing. Like having a female Antonio, or, you know, that sort of thing in a way that’s not like sexy Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, you know what I mean, just casting people differently. And that moved fairly quickly into trying and trying to have a more diverse cast. To have more black, indigenous and people of colour, which is something that in our, the past, I don’t know, five, six, maybe seven years we’ve been very successful at, we’ve met a lot of incredible, incredible actors who we’ve been able to work with. And they’ve gotten to play a lot of roles that they may not have otherwise. So that’s really something that’s important to us. And weirdness is pretty much always at the core of, of what we do. And, and because it’s Shakespeare, and you don’t have to worry about royalties or anything, and you can do whatever you want. We do a lot of messing with Shakespeare, we take out bits that we think aren’t serving any purpose. Like I know, when we did Love’s Labour’s Lost, you know, there’s this whole thing was Rosalyn, and people being like, super racist to her, you know, she’s supposed to be darker skin to like in the play, and we’re like, yeah, maybe we can just like take that out. We, that’s not helping anybody. And it’s not relevant story and, or, you know, some of the shows that are comedies and, and it’s just sort of like, I still don’t know that those people should have gotten together after this hot mess situation, maybe slight rework, that maybe we’ll steal something from another show, and put it in and change the ending a little bit. So, and I think that that’s nice, I think it keeps stories that people think of as universal, but makes them universal, still, you know, are relevant still in a way that they may not otherwise be like, everybody has seen all white Shakespeare and like, who cares at this point, like, hetero white Shakespeare is just like, we’ve been doing it for literally hundreds of years, I think we can stop.
Phil Rickaby
I think that a lot of times, to me and I have been a, you know, as a as an actor in the in Canada, you do a lot of Shakespeare, especially when you’re when you’re younger, you just just like, that’s just the thing. And at a certain point, I’ve encountered companies that seem to just do his show, because I think it’d be cool to do that show. And they try to be like, they try to come up with a concept. And the concept does not marry with the story at all. And so you’re always bumping into the story while you’re trying. But the concept is bumping into the story, and it doesn’t doesn’t work. But you can change and you can do stuff, as long as it does serve the story. And that’s, I think the the important thing. I think sometimes people try to get super smart, quote unquote, with with their Shakespeare and that to their detriment sometimes.
Stevie Baker
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because it’s all there and little things can make a big difference. Like this year we did our show was called this earth of majesty. And it was a rework of Richard the second. And it was, you know, it was really, really beautiful. And in our Richard, the second Richard’s consort, was a non binary actor and non binary character. They had a clear relationship, but nothing with how it was written, said that we couldn’t do that. You know what I mean? Like it wasn’t when we’re doing those things, like you said, it’s never for the point of like, a Ha, but did you expect the gays and it’s like, no, you know, it’s just a natural part of how how we work and how we tell stories, and how people can see themselves in it. Like that’s a huge important part too, when you’re casting shows in the city. Well, I mean, anywhere. But especially like when you’re doing a show in the streets of Toronto, and people are why thing by Anna, you’re in the most diverse city in the world. People need to look and sound like people from all over the world to be relevant and to make people who are walking by feel seen and feel like, oh, maybe I can come watch this, maybe this is interesting for me. I
Phil Rickaby
just think that generally what we put on this stage should reflect the world around us. And so when you’re creating theatre in the most diverse city in the world, you should, the stage should be filled with as many colours of people, a nationalities of people, as we see on the street, and that should just be the way the way it works. And because I think otherwise, audiences of colour see a show, and they say, I guess this isn’t for me. Yeah, yeah,
Stevie Baker
absolutely. Absolutely. And, yeah, like, Why? Why would they necessarily want to come? And why should we expect a diverse audience if we’re not going to put in the work to have a diverse cast and diverse crew? Or if we’re not going to listen to those people in rehearsal about like, actually, I don’t think that my character is going to do that I don’t think me as an actor, as a person is going, believes that this is you know, how this character is going to approach things like that’s an important part of it, as well as like, you’ve got to have those people. But you have to also recognise the actual lived experience they’re bringing to your show, and how incredibly valuable and important that is like, that’s the whole point of doing it, is to have these other perspectives. Yes.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, absolutely. And those conversations in the rehearsal room are super important, important to avoid causing harm, which has historically happened in the theatre.
Stevie Baker
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. Like we have something that like our founding artistic director, Scott Emerson, Boyle, who everybody in the sort of indie theatre world will have maybe interacted with, at some point, lucky, hopefully, for them. And he kind of started this thing of like a policy of like, there’s no assholes in the room. And that’s really important to our shows like there are, there’s no one who’s going to be treating anybody badly. There’s no one who’s not as important as anybody else. And that’s sort of evolved to like a more official room agreement. And helping people understand where we’re coming from, you know, like we have been very fortunate to work with in the past and this year, actors who are older. And so this year, well, we have like non binary actors and trans actors, and older actors who just have less experience dealing with people who are out because, you know, so many people are out now and have not always been that yeah, like making the room agreement together, talking through it, and explaining to them how that works. Like bringing them into like, this is why we’re talking about pronouns. This is why we’re really working with that is really, really important and makes like a unified group of people.
Phil Rickaby
Absolutely, absolutely. Um, one of the things and you sort of like alluded to it is that Dolma City Theatre is works on queering Shakespeare a couple of years ago, I spoke to a number of members of a cast, one of the shows and we did talk about about the importance of query queering Shakespeare and what that looks like. Your you’ve described a Dauntless as, as being rooted in queering, subverting and modernising Shakespeare. Do you get pushback from actors when presenting this to them? Do people come to you ready to commit to it? Or are they do people come to you thinking, Oh, Shakespeare, I’m gonna do this and then have to make drastic changes to their thinking.
Stevie Baker
I think that at this point, and actually, this year was a little bit different because we had had a break and almost every actor we worked with this year was totally new to us. But that also meant they were totally ready. I think initially, there was some expectation of you know, Shakespeare, like for a while, we would have people on auditions who are like, very serious, you know, like, very serious actors doing very serious Shakespeare. And but that has changed. I think that dauntless really sort of walked the walk and had a reputation for for doing things differently and for willing to listen And if somebody thought that something wasn’t completely right, or what we were going for, and so in general, I find that actors come in, not only ready to do the work in a different way, but like, excited to really excited to just be like, Oh, we can do this differently. Because there are, you know, with Shakespeare, like Shakespeare scholars and things, people who are so precious about it, but we’re just not precious about it, you know, like we really aren’t, because there are enough people doing that it doesn’t, really doesn’t matter. And that’s not important to us in the way that we are working.
Phil Rickaby
I totally get you. I remember many years ago, I was doing a production of Midsummer Night’s Dream. And one of the lovers you know, the they’re talking about, you know, the fathers were there, all this stuff. And you know, was not your father there yet. There’s some was not my father here yet. And my father is the line, yay. And my father. And the actor said, yeah, and my father, and it totally brought it home for an audience. But there were a couple of people who after the show, were like, did you say, yeah, like, that was the worst thing that you could possibly do when we were doing it in like modern clothing? So it was like, why not? And yet some people get so uptight about those things.
Stevie Baker
Yeah. And like, Why at this like hideout now, I just, I don’t think that it matters. And I don’t think it does any favours. And I don’t think it invites anybody new in, like, if we’re gonna be so rigid, like, why would anyone be interested? Or we, you know, like, we had people work on our show this year, who don’t have any, like cultural history with Shakespeare. You know, like, why I don’t know that we shouldn’t necessarily expect them to really care if we’re going to be such jerks about, you know, like such snobs about it. Like it’s the most precious playwright in the entire world, like no other culture has a great play right now. It’s, I think it’s silly, but we have, it’s interesting, like, I find our audience is really, really supportive and into it, and even people who don’t really expect it, but we do pretty much every year have this one older man who comes with like, kind of a folding chair and like the script of whatever we’re doing. And just like having the hardest time, you know, like trying to follow the play because we’ve chopped it up, or we’ve mixed some pieces around that I just like us, just just put your book away. It’s okay, buddy. Just sit there, right.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, I do think that that kind of that kind of preciousness, that snobbery around, Shakespeare does keep people away. And again, since various, it’s a lot of people’s first experience with Shakespeare was being poorly taught in high school, so they’re already predisposed to hate it. And then if we approach it from a point where it should only be done at pumpkin patch, where the rough and the big, the big dresses and all this sort of stuff, and we should follow all of these rules about how it should be performed, then we’re just confirming that it’s not for the people who are already predisposed to dislike it.
Stevie Baker
Yeah, yeah, exactly. That’s such an amazing point. And I always tell people, like, if you feel like Shakespeare is not for you, download Shakespeare is for you, like you will come and you will understand what we’re saying. And you will understand what’s happening. Like, it’s gonna be fine. But there are so many people who are afraid of it. Like, you know, I have a very close group of friends who are not theatre people who I think have seen zero of the shows because they’re like, Shakespeare, I don’t know. And it’s like, Do you really think that I met they’re making stuffy Shakespeare that you can’t see like, what are you?
Phil Rickaby
Speaking of speaking of theatre that sort of like brings people in and brings people together. You know, your product, you were the producer on a production of the Rocky Horror Show, which I think that anybody any theatre that’s programmed, it has found it’s like their number one box office draw, because it brings in people who are not predisposed to going to theatre. You it brings in fans of the Rocky Horror Show or the Rocky Horror Picture Show and mixes them with theatre goers. And some of those people who are fans of the Rocky Horror Show they come multiple
Stevie Baker
times. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Like that was really, that was something like Caleb, who directed the Rocky Horror Show. He had pitched it to Matt, I think the previous year or something like they’d been ruminating, ruminating on it for a long time before I kind of came in. And I think that the board was really like, oh, I don’t know what’s kind of racy and their supporters. I mean, it’s like a rural town. Their supporters are older people who are coming for Norman Foster or whatever. And like, they weren’t sure. And but they were like, Yeah, let’s, you know, like, let’s do it, the timing was going to be post pandemic like to have some fun, let’s get some people that, but they did not anticipate the, the numbers like more than 4000 people saw that show, which is incredible to hear. And, and, you know, like, I knew that it would be a huge hit. I’ve been a huge Rocky Horror fan since I was like 15. And I grew up in this town, where there, that was my only connection to queer culture. That’s the only thing that made me feel like there are other people in this universe like me, and they are out there somewhere in Toronto is what I assumed and was correct. But like, they’re also here, you know, like, not everybody got to leave. And that’s also with like, the the amount of incredible talent here to is like, not everybody left, there are still incredible people here, interesting people here, there’s a whole community of people here, waiting. And so with the programming that’s happening here, a lot of time isn’t as exciting. I knew that everyone was going to be like, Oh my God, there’s a play, I can go see, I’m gonna go see it. But it’s funny. Like we had people who didn’t know they were coming to see a play. Like I chatted and one guy in the lobby after the show one night. Yeah, he thought he was coming this like that there was going to be a screen and we were projecting the movie, which was like, oh, okay, like, Yeah, I mean, it was a possibility. But yeah, and the mix of people was amazing. Like, you had some people like, it was really, really cool to see, you know, some parents bringing their, like queer teenagers to come see it. And you could just see, like, their excitement, to get to see something that felt like it was more for them. And I really, I really felt that I would have died as a teenager for the show to have existed in Australia. And, you know, like, it was it was beautiful. And it was an interesting mix, too. Because yeah, you do get like the people who are long time, Matt supporters coming to see the show, because they come to see every show because they’re great, great theatre patrons. And then you have all these people who have been watching this movie for 20 years screaming at their TV in their basement who don’t know how theatre works as very hilarious, but like, really, really fun.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, I think both I mean, when the when Ken Ken stage, did it and also when Stratford did it a few years late, get later, they had signs in the lobby, because they knew they were going to be mixing their theatre audience and the Rocky Horror audience just to I think it was more for their patrons, their regular patrons, so let them know. No, no, these people are supposed to be shouting. They’re supposed to be shouting, don’t get upset. This is yeah, this show.
Stevie Baker
Yeah, absolutely. Like we sold some little goodie bags with noisemakers and glow sticks and stuff in the lobby for people to kind of have a little bit of control, though. They’re not throwing rice and toast and spoons and things and a little like some warnings here and there in the programme to just be like, it’s okay. Like that exact same thing like this is going to happen. Some people are going to yell things, and the shows were all very different. But it was rare to not have audience participation, like that was really, really big, and fun and amazing. I mean, the first opening night, when we did over at the Frankenstein place, and like, I turned around to look at the audience. I was sitting very close to the front. And it was just like a sea of like lights from cell phones and glow sticks. And I started crying. It was so emotional. I was like, Oh my God, all these people are here. And they’re doing that thing I was so
Phil Rickaby
that’s so awesome. That’s so awesome. And I imagined that that people travelled for this show, in a way that they might not for a norm foster that, that people made a bit more of a journey because that shows that show.
Stevie Baker
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Like we did have an incredible sort of social media outreach happening. A Shannon who was in our chorus also did our publicity and she just did such a fun campaign. And it brought in a lake had a huge reach, and it brought in a tonne of people but yeah, from everywhere, people from new market. We had people come from farther north like Bracebridge Huntsville, Gravenhurst. Multiple times had somebody come from Kingston I think, like, all all over the place many people from Toronto. Yeah, so that was really, really exciting to really exciting.
Phil Rickaby
Nice, nice. Now, one of the things that I love to talk about is, is I love to hear people’s theatre origin story. We all everybody who does theatre, whether they’re onstage behind the stage, whether they’re producing doing something, they have a moment where they fell in love with theatre. and decided that was the thing for them. What was your theatre origin story.
Stevie Baker
Um, my theatre origin story, it has like a bit of a weird turn in it. Like when I was in grade nine, the high school I went to OD in Orillia, of which many of the retired teachers are members of Matt, which is hilarious and weird because I have to try to call them by their first name. So that’s weird. Now that I’m, but we did a production of anything goes. And that really, really lit something in me, I worked in the costumes, which I absolutely loved. And I just it really bit me but it in a way that shifted me to film where I was just like, this is incredible. This is amazing. I want to do things that are going to last forever. stuff. I was like movies. That’s for me. And I went to film school at Humber. And when I got out of film school, it was like the SARS situation, which had really kind of destroyed theatre industry. But I worked on a few movies, which was great. And then the costume departments on some, which was really, really incredible. Like, I got my costumes, training and mentorship from Julie Weiss, who’s absolutely brilliant, like she did Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, and I think 12 monkeys, and that whole bunch of things. And so that was really like, unbelievable, and exciting. But the jobs just like dried up, everything went out to the West Coast for a really long time. And during that time, I can’t even remember exactly how I got hooked up with this person. But there was a woman doing like a kind of Mae West adjacent show up buddies. And I needed a production manager. And I was like, Yeah, I can do that, probably. So I did that. And I ended up kind of also being the stage manager. And even though that experience was not fantastic. It really was like, Oh, this is actually where I want to be like, when I was working in film. Because like, I always wanted to have kids, it was very apparent to me, like, oh, none of the women I’m working with have children. And, and there’s very good reason for that. It’s incredibly difficult. I mean, maybe it’s gotten a tiny bit better. Now that was a while ago, but I was just like, oh, I don’t know how to have a life and have this career. And also the career was very unstable at that point. So I end up doing theatre and loved it and felt immediately even though I was knew that there was a place for me a place for my ideas, a community to be had, like, it felt like the hierarchy was far less important in theatre than it was on a film set where it was incredibly important. And so from that job, I just kind of met some people at buddies who invited me to do another show. And then I worked with Guy Gilbert, which was cool, and a bunch of really amazing, interesting people. And that just kind of kept happening, basically forever. Like I just kind of kept getting bounced around people. And then I randomly ended up being roommates with Scott. And he started urban Bard and we just wear like, two halves of the same brain for many, many, many years, which really, like solidified my, my sort of theatre life.
Phil Rickaby
It’s, I find it interesting that you sort of called the theatre bug and you were like, I want things to live forever. So if that’s what you want, theatre is not going to be it because you really have to come to terms with the impermanence of theatre. That yeah, I remember when I was younger people would, you know, they knew that I wanted to be an actress. So I would get like, gifts of like, here’s a book about theatre, and they would talk about these productions. And I’d be like, well, but I can’t see it. Like you’re talking about how brilliant this production is. And all I know is that it was brilliant. And I can’t maybe there’s a couple of pictures, but I can’t see it. And you just have to come to terms with the fact that that’s the way theatre is each day, each night each performance is in the past a will never happen that way again.
Stevie Baker
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so it’s a completely different, a completely different thing. And I think just, I don’t know, experience or reflecting on experiences just sort of changed, but I just felt so much more at home, in theatre, and I still have like, a huge love of film like, you know, that came from my dad would like rent movies with us like every week and that’s what we always did was watch movies. We didn’t have much money. So it was like we’re always going to be at home. Like watching a tonne of movies all weekend. And like my dad it’s very strange because he shows everything we’ve watched but like everyone smile like I don’t know. He would Say like something about the godfather. I mean, like, I haven’t seen the godfather. And he’s like, What are you talking about? How could you have never seen the cut? That’s so stupid and like, go and read and stuff like, but you’re the, you’re the guy. Like, if you ship it to me, I haven’t seen it. Yeah, so you’re right. It’s really, really different, but it lives in the people who do it and the people who have seen it. And even though that can be hard, I mean, there are endless shows, like, I mean, working in indie theatre and having two kids, I rarely have money to go or time to go see it. So yeah, it’s weird, because you want to see everything, and you really just can’t, but I just find it even exciting talking to people about, like, whatever they’ve been working on, or whatever they recently saw, even if you can’t see it, it’s like, it lives in this weird theatre zone that somehow makes it okay. Like, you know, it was so great for the time that was happening. And then you move on to the next thing that’s so great. Like, it’s always sad might come down from Rocky or is terrible, like, come down from everything is always like, I’m no good between shows, the first part of the pandemic was very stressful for me, because I was just like, Yeah, but like, I gotta gotta be doing a show what’s happening. So it’s always sad, because you’re like, feel like you’ll never see those people again. And everybody’s always like, Oh, we’ll get together. And it’s not possible, because it’s like, 20 people, and you’re all going to your next project. But there’s just I don’t know, when you work on something that you love, and that you’ve enjoyed with the people that were working on it with you. It’s like, I don’t know, it feeds your soul in a way that it’s like permanent to you. Yeah,
Phil Rickaby
I think that’s the thing. Because I mean, we all have been in this situation where, because we, you know, we form these little families that exist for this show. And then we lie to each other and say that we’ll get back together. But you eventually, I guess, have to come to terms with the fact that this was a family. Yeah. And when the show’s over, like, we’re always going to be happy to run into each other because of this family. But we’re not going to see each other in the same way. We just have to let it go in the same way that we have to let go a show where nobody laughed at the jokes and move on to the next one. You know, it’s the same kind of thing. We just have to allow the impermanence, but it’s so hard because the emotions are so strong.
Stevie Baker
Yeah, yeah, it really, really is. And especially when you get like, a short run, or you know, or you’re picking up steam at the end of your run, which is really the case with slaughter brothers, like that show was brilliant, and weird. And it was really finding its audience like we lost a week we lost our first week because of COVID. So we only had two weekends and deserved a longer rum. Same with Rocky Horror, like if we could have had another weekend or so like, it’s when things are going well. And never feels like enough time because at the sort of an indie level, like nobody’s doing a run for months or years, whatever, it’s, it’s gonna be short. And at the time, that rarely feels like enough time, except for maybe fringe often at Fringe. You’re like, Okay, this was the best two weeks ever, and we’re good.
Phil Rickaby
I don’t even fringe is a little different. Because fringe is so intensely one thing. Yeah, it’s like, yeah, you’re out there, you’re promoting, you’re doing the show, you’re seeing a bunch of shows. It’s a whirlwind. And at the end of it, you’re like, Okay, I am good. Which is what makes like a fringe tour, like a real roller coaster of a, you know, you come down you’re like, Oh, we’re gonna get into another city, we’re going to happen. But yeah, it’s it’s so it’s so hard. And I think that also, generally, in Canada, we don’t have long runs, like, there are shows that can and probably should run longer. But we don’t have the kind of venue space that some other cities do, where a show can get picked up and can run for a long time. Even on the Mirvish stages shows don’t tend to run for long period of times on the big production company Mirvish for people who aren’t from the Toronto area, they do all the big the big Broadway shows the huge shows that come to Toronto, and even they have other shows on the schedule except when they block off a time in a theatre but for the most part, a show can’t run indefinitely the way it can say in New York or London.
Stevie Baker
Yeah, yeah, it’s absolutely true and and for sort of, I don’t know like a mid level like terragon or pesah MRI or some of these factory that are sold ever like places Crow’s has like places that are doing some really interesting work like this year I feel like everybody’s programming has just been like next level and of course I’m in a really in Severn just like oh my god, like I can’t get to the city and see this what’s happening. It’s, it would kind of be a shame for things to run a long time because there’s so many incredible people and so many incredible theatre makers doing really interesting stuff. And if if we did book people for months at a time, then there’s like 10 other shows that wouldn’t, wouldn’t be possible. You’re right. It’s like, we just don’t have enough space.
Phil Rickaby
I know. And that’s the unfortunate balance. And the unfortunate thing is, I feel like, that causes us to have a disposable attitude towards some of the theatre that we do. We don’t it doesn’t get chance time to breathe, the show can be successful. Yeah, the show was successful. And then a year later, it may be gets a door nomination and maybe an award, but it’s over and it’s forgotten.
Stevie Baker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah,
Phil Rickaby
that doesn’t have a chance to run. And that’s just, you know, that’s just space. Terragen has a whole season that they have to fit in the show can’t run indefinitely, just because it’s in there. So it’s a tough one. And I, I, I wish that, you know, wishes, wishes, wishes, I, you know, be great if we had more space that we could afford more space in the city, we could, you know, have more theatre that did lives that lives on but that it is. theatre scene is what it is, you know?
Stevie Baker
Yeah, yeah, it’s really true. It’s, it’s similar, you know, up here, in a really at least, like our only spot really like is the Opera House, which has an upstairs theatre that’s very large, it’s over six, I think it’s close to 700 seats. And they have a studio theatre that’s around 100. And then Mariposa arts, they have a warehouse where they do have some space, but they haven’t done much, they’re going to do some things this spring, which I’m excited about. But it’s yeah, like there’s just not a lot of places for things to happen. And so for me, it’s been interesting, because there’s really only a couple of groups, you know, like miracles, arts theatres doing their thing. And they only have so many people, they can’t do more than three or so shows in a year because they’re hurting out all of their volunteers otherwise. And arts really is sort of young and just starting. And so they are pacing themselves with how you know what they can do, because they’re funding so many things, residencies and things that it’s a little bit at a time. And I’m just sort of sitting here like, wishing for a little store from theatre, you know, where I could just be doing something all the time, even though I have more than enough to keep me busy. It’s like, I’m always ravenous for like the next project. I have never content with what I know is lined up, there’s always going to be more and more and more, which is my own personal hell of my own making.
Phil Rickaby
But if that’s the thing that you’re passionate about, that makes it not a hell, that’s something that you’re imposing on it that to call it that, because if it’s something you really want, it’s not hell. Yeah,
Stevie Baker
that’s true. That’s true. It is and I miss it. I do miss like, that is a fun thing about Toronto and having done like a million fringes and so many, especially when I was stage managing so many different shots like you mentioned, like working with Adri. And like, all the all the people that I’ve worked with through the years, like doing shows in weird little crevice spaces that are creepy and terrible. them but like, it’s fun. And that’s kind of the charm is like, will we survive this run? Maybe? I don’t know. But yeah, the unique venues like it’s, it’s easy to miss them, and it’s easy to miss the how much opportunity that that can provide for people like it’s difficult because funding is hard. And having the money to do a show is difficult. Even when you have storefront theatres. It’s not always affordable. But it’s something and when there’s so many of them there. You know, there are options for people.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Stevie, thank you so much for joining me tonight. I’m so thrilled to have had this conversation with you.
Stevie Baker
Yes, me too. I’m so happy that we finally you know, got to chat to each other.
Phil Rickaby
This has been an episode of Stageworthy. Stageworthy is produced, hosted and edited by Phil Rickaby. That’s me. If you enjoyed this podcast and you listen on Apple podcasts or Spotify, you can leave a five star rating. And if you’re listening on Apple podcast, you can also leave a review those reviews and ratings help new people find the show. If you want to keep up with what’s going on with Stageworthy and my other projects you can subscribe to my newsletter by going to They’ll rickaby.com/subscribe And remember, if you want to leave a tip, you’ll find a link to the virtual tip jar in the show notes or on the website. You can find Stageworthy on Twitter and Instagram at Stageworthy pod and you can find the website with the complete archive of all episodes at stageworthy.ca. If you want to find me, you can find me on Twitter and Instagram @PhilRickaby. And as I mentioned, my website is philrickaby.com. See you next week for another episode of Stageworthy