#26 – Shira Taylor
Shira Taylor is a performer, director, producer, and doctoral candidate at the Dalla Lana School of Public Health at U of T. For her dissertation, she created SExT: Sex Education by Theatre to explore the use of theatre for sexual health education among youth in Toronto’s Thorncliffe/Flemingdon Park. Shira obtained her BSc. (Psychology) and MSc. (Epidemiology) from Queen’s University, where she performed with Queen’s Players, Queen’s Musical Theatre, and Existere, and co-founded and directed the social action theatre program, Excetera. Shira and her puppet doppelganger Lucy perform with the multiple award-winning theatre company, Shakey-Shake and Friends, which uses puppets and popular culture references to make Shakespeare accessible to young audiences. She also works with Indigenous girls in the Northwest Territories as Evaluation Consultant and Drama Facilitator with FOXY and is a Research Coordinator at SickKids on the cross-Canada, Art for Social Change (ASC!) project, working closely with artists and change-makers to further the use of the arts in social justice agendas.
SExT: Sex Education by Theatre empowers youth from a community where sexuality is a cultural taboo to take centre stage. SExT is a collaboration between Toronto theatre artists and a diverse group of youth from Flemingdon and Thorncliffe Park – two immigration destinations in Toronto and the recent hub of protests opposing sex education reform in the wake of the first curriculum update since 1998. Check us out at the Toronto Fringe and SummerWorks 2016 to hear what these youth have to say about growing up in the age of cyberbullying, sexting and rape culture. It’s time to let TEENS give THE TALK!
www.sexeducationbytheatre.com
SExT Trailer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWP6RQkx0yA
SExT @ Toronto Fringe: http://fringetoronto.com/fringe-festival/shows/sext/
SExT @ SummerWorks: http://summerworks.ca/2016/artists/sext/
Facebook: www.facebook.com/sextedshow
Twitter: @SExTEdShow #SExTEd
Instagram: @SExTEdShow #SExTEd
Twitter: @ShiraTaylor
Instagram: @theshirataylor
Stageworthy:
http://www.stageworthypodcast.com
Twitter @stageworthyPod
Facebook: http://facebook.com/stageworthyPod
Transcript
Transcript auto generated.
Phil Rickaby
Welcome to Episode 26 of Stageworthy, I’m your host Phil Rickaby. On Stageworthy I interview people who make theatre actors, directors, playwrights and more and talk to them about everything from why they chose the theatre to their work process and anything in between. Sharon Taylor is a performer, director, producer and doctoral candidate at the dalla Liang School of Public Health. She is also the director of sex, which explores sex and sex education and a show created in collaboration with a group of high school students. Sex plays this summer at both the Toronto fringe and summerworks festivals. You can find stage really on Facebook and Twitter at stage where the pod and you can find the website at stage where the podcast.com If you like what you hear, I hope you’ll subscribe on iTunes or Google music or whatever podcast app you use and consider leaving a comment or rating.
Shira Taylor, what is sex? Okay, I know what it is.
Shira Taylor
Okay, so sex to so many things, but the word sex we chose because it stands for sex education by so the X is like a two by four kind of X Theatre, which is the topic of my doctoral dissertation that I’m doing at U of T and public health. So that’s how it started. And it’s really kind of grown into its own thing. So I knew that I wanted to do my thesis. The only reason I wanted to do a PhD was I knew I just had this project in my head that I wanted to bring to life. And I just thought I had been I’d just come out of doing a master’s degree in epidemiology. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with that. It’s not about skin. Everyone thinks it’s about skin. But it’s basically statistics for Health Research. And I knew I liked health. And I knew I love theatre, and I knew I liked sex. And I like stigmatised areas, and I like using theatre to get stigmatised areas. So I was just really brushing my teeth one day, and I was like, How can I combine all of these things, and I just kind of got the hang of the grad school lifestyle, which really suits my personality, both the waking up at noon and going to bed at four, but also the ability to balance multiple projects. So I basically pitched this idea to U of T and Ottawa, eu say I want to do this sex ed theatre programme with you thinned and I put all these fancy statistics in there and they both took the bait. So I ended up at U of T. And then I had to go through the first year of the PhD, which is a lot of classwork and then the qualifying exam where you basically have to go up there and prove that you’re worse than continuing to let you be in the programme. And then I was got kind of ready to go and I had free rein, but I’m like, okay, so I have this idea. But where am I going to do this? I’m not from Toronto from Ottawa, didn’t really have many connections. So I kind of just put out a blast anyone I knew who was working with youth. They’re in high schools. And I said, like, Help me Help a girl out. Yeah, so my aunt’s best friend was a social worker at Marc Garneau, which is a high school in Thorncliffe and Flemington Park. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the neighbourhood. Okay, so it’s a newcomer destination. The school itself is one of the most diverse and overpopulated schools in the GTA. And the the demographic is very diverse, but the majority is a newcomer Muslim, South Asian population. And I was really interested because my view of sexuality is not like when people think sex ed or is they often think pregnancy and they think STIs. So the scary shit. My view of sexuality is just much more, let’s say holistic. So I’m interested in how religion, politics, culture, how all of that plays into sexuality. So I was really interested in how that the context of this school would work with this programme. But again, I was an outsider to the community had no idea. So I basically did like, take your kids to work day thing with my aunt’s friend was a social worker. And we got there and she just kind of threw me in to the wolves and the tears said, here’s the principal, this amazing woman, her name is Ricky Goldenberg. And she was basically like, what’s your deal? And I pitched to her and she said, yeah, you have access to my whole school, which is a huge breakthrough. Like that does not usually come that easy. I’d been shopping around for months. I’m like, oh, Okay, I’m trying to talk to some kids to see if this is something that’ll actually work at the school. So there was someone in the office who overheard and said, Oh, my God, well, I’m not going to send you this boy, you should see what he did to a banana like, last class. And I was like, no, like, send me banana kid, like, that’s who I want to talk to. So this kid comes down, he fully thinks he’s getting expelled. He looks scared, shitless. And I basically I’m like, Hi. So I’m this random PhD student, I had this idea for this programme, where we talk about just issues that are important to youth in the community relating to sexuality and sexual health. And then we’re gonna come up with a play based on these issues. And you can express your opinions by raps or songs or dances, because looking at me, like, okay, I guess I’m not getting expelled ladies. So that’s good. But then he was like, Well, it sounds cool. But good luck getting girls in this neighbourhood to talk about sex, you’re not going to be able to do that. But I was like, Okay, well, that’s an interesting perspective. But I’m not going to take like his word for it. So I said to the social worker, I’m like, can you get me into a girl’s gym class or something? So I go into the girls gym class, and I get in front of the class, again, haven’t prepared anything. I’m just kind of talking at them about what my idea is. And then this one girl puts up her hand, and I’m like, Oh, do you have a question? And she said, No, I just really want to do this. And it was that was the like, Aha moment where I said, Okay, I’m in the right place. Yeah. So, all one day, one day, okay, so So next year, I’m taking receipts out of my purse, because all the girls in the class wanted to give me their contact information. So I said, Okay, so I’m just pulling out scrap papers. And all these girls are lined up, and they have questions, and they’re so excited. And that was the moment I was like, Yeah, I’m onto something. This is something super cool. And then everything kind of go on pause for six months. Well, I got ethics approval and prove that I wasn’t running a pornography programme.
Phil Rickaby
Okay. Yeah, that’s, but um,
Shira Taylor
but it got approved, I got approved. And I understand I mean, if anything’s hard to get ethics approval for it’s a working with youth and be on sexual health, right. So I came back and, again, did a few class talks like nothing major. And the advice I’d gotten from a lot of people said, you know, take a few extra kids, because they’re teenagers, they’re going to drop out. Also, this is considered a neighbourhood improvement area of Toronto. So there’s this stigma that, oh, you’re not going to be able to get kids to, which I found is the exact opposite. Especially since I found in this community, most of the kids are from new immigrant families, there is this kind of idea of, you know, our parents moved here to give us a better life. And we’re going to, you know, work as hard as we can to realise that. So I actually found more so than any other community I was talking to it, just the, the buy in from the youth was huge. And I think also, because, culturally in the community, there aren’t many open conversations necessarily happening on these topics for every kid for some Sure. But for every kid, so it was the chance to talk also drew them in. So I had said, Okay, I’m gonna I want 10 kids. So I’ll take like 15. And then I started with 10 kids, and I finished with 19 kids with perfect attendance. And I did 10 workshops with them. And the first day, I sat down with them, and I said, what’s important to you, because it was very important that they were dictating the agenda. So we talked about issues that were important in their community. So for example, homophobia, how women dress was a really important issue, just various gender roles, domestic abuse, healthy relationships, unhealthy relationships. So all of those types of issues. And then extensions of those. So we talked about race, and religion, and stereotypes and racism, and all of those types of things. And then each so each session was kind of part discussion, often heated debate. And then would finish with them having the chance to come up with a creative representation of our discussion, be it a dance, or a song or a skit. And there was I used some more structured drama exercises for certain things like I learned the hard way. Don’t give a group of teens free rein coming up with the scene on pregnancy options. Because you might have a situation where babies are being thrown. And then someone picks up the baby dust him off and goes oh, he’s kind of cute all the talk to him. So I learned that lesson the hard way. So for things like pregnancy, I had to take a more structured approach. So I learned my lesson, I brought in a script and and did some work from that and some improvisation based on existing scripts. And I think what was cool there was we had I asked for volunteers who wants to play the pregnant girl. And it was a guy who shot his hand up right away that he did, and I think he was trying to be funny at first. So but I was like, Yeah, play the pregnant girl. Love it. And then by the end, I think He was really an exercise in empathy, because all of a sudden, you have this guy who’s put himself in the shoes of a pregnant girl, and being put, you know, in the hot seat with people asking questions, so like, like, how do you feel and what’s gonna happen with your boyfriend now. And so that’s interesting. So it was a very kind of diverse array of drama activities. And then those were the 10 workshops. And then I got them together for a week of the summer to put the show together. And this was two years ago. So this is in 2014. And a lot of the youth came to me going into the summer saying, we just got nine to five jobs. But we still want to do it. And I said, Well, if you’re willing to do it, then come after work. So what was really amazing to me was not one dropped out out of 19. So about nine of them had jobs, so So I would have half of them from nine to five, the other half of come from five to 10. Some of them would just stay for the 12 hours. And a good number of them are fasting for the Muslim holiday of Ramadan at the same time. So it was this dedication that was incredible. There were days we couldn’t get into the health centres, the Flemington Health Centre is our partner to rehearse. So we rehearse in the rain in a parking lot. And it was just amazing. At the end of that process, we put on a show at the Science Centre for their peers. And I was sitting there watching it and being like, No, this is something special, like this is something I think, is lacking maybe from the Toronto theatre community, because everything you’re seeing out there, it’s so real and so raw, but it’s still it’s still artistic and effective. A lot of the youth, it was the first time ever being on stage, but they were telling it nice. So that’s kind of how it got started, that was a really long answer to your question. Okay, so
Phil Rickaby
both fringe and summerworks are going to be presenting is the same show that they presented for their peers
Shira Taylor
and sciences. So it’s constantly being developed. So the nature of the show, is we really want it to reflect the realities of the youth involved. And that changes over time that changes. So two years later, amazingly, we have nine out of the original 19 cast members, even though some graduated high school, they still come back, before new cast members, we have a cast of 13. So we try and I try and make it that everyone has their voice. So for the new cast members, for example, one of them wrote this beautiful piece on kind of the crisis of finding your identity. So where does my identity and from my parents in the culture that I come from and living in Canada, what does it mean to live in Canada? So she wrote this beautiful wrap on that. So that’s a new addition to our show, and that came from so really depends who’s in the room. Also, I’ve been really lucky to get some funding from the Toronto Arts Council and then Cal McHale, John foundation. So I’ve been able to bring in a variety of local Toronto artists to lend their creative contributions. So for example, Bo Lam, who’s a dancer for the Toronto Raptors, she came in, and we have this really beautiful new song written about leaving an abusive relationship. So it’s written by one of our cast members, Merica tattoo, and my good friend, Elena watco, who was just recently in Kinky Boots. So she wrote the music, Mary wrote the lyrics, because Mary had identified that a healthy relationship was something really important to her and she put it all into words quite articulate articulately, and Alena set it to music. And then we had Bo come in and choreograph this beautiful contemporary dance to it. So now it’s really it’s this it’s the kind of piece where like, the more people I can get in the room, the more creative energy we have Tom McGee on dramaturgy. So that’s kind of it’s really evolving and it’s constantly evolving and I do see it evolving even from fringe to summerworks Cool.
Phil Rickaby
So I mean this this this project began for you as a way to bring together theatre and academia yes as well as the sex topic Yes. What’s When did you like once you theatre background? Why did you start with theatre and what is what is your interest in theatre?
Shira Taylor
Sure. So I can’t definitely can’t pick a pinpoint a time if you look at home videos of me as a child, like the first one that comes to mind is me like sitting on the toilet naked. Singing Fiddler on the Roof Matchmaker, matchmaker find me a rat instead of match. When I was little my mom had lame is playing on repeat in the car. I was only allowed to swear in the car when I could yell raise it up the Masters ass as a child. So I mean theatres just kind of been in my blood. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with the Kiwanis Music Festival. But in Ottawa that was like my friends and I we laugh about this because Kiwanis was like it was kind of almost nothing Oscars. I don’t know what the equivalent would be to Broadway of Ottawa. So every year I would do musical theatre and I trained under Stacy Ingri, an amazing voice coach and she really helped me develop as a as a theatre artist. And every year I would go to the music festival and you would just do these two contrasting pieces and, and you train for months and, and then so that was kind of like my jam when I when I was little. So I was always just ready for my big quanis piece I got over the moon from Rent band from the Kiwanis Music Festival, it’s still in the programme and really proud of that. So that’s kind of how I was I was trained. And then that was basically till high school. I had been singing lessons since I was nine years old. So I really started with singing. And then with the singing, that’s when they said, Oh, you know, you should really get some acting coaching. So I did that. And then I got to high school and then I got to experience what it’s like to be part of theatre, not as an individual thing, like alone on the toilet or in your mom’s car or doing solo musical theatre numbers, but as a group, so I was scared shitless of improv. So I joined the improv team in high school. And I remember this moment where I was about to go on in this big scene structure rehab, where I was gonna have to have the big emotional breakdown in the scene. And this one big guy comes up to me and I was like, younger, and he was in grade 12. And he put his arm around me, he’s like, you know, we have your back. And I think I was like, oh, theatre, you know? Like, is there a better feeling than that? I don’t think so. And then, and then when I went off to Queens, I knew I was really torn. I knew I want to theatre my life, always forever. That’s never been in doubt. But academically, I was really also interested in the sciences. So I was kind of pulled that way academically, but I always did a tonne of theatre, extracurricular ly at Queen’s, and actually existence, there is a performance which I based this programme on. So at Queen’s, when you first get there Frosh Week, and you’re so awkward, they basically throw the frosh in a room together. And they have a show where it starts off where the cast members who are in second year are kind of doing a scene based on the horrible icebreaker activity you just had to do with the new people you met. And then they’re they’re saying, like, what you’re actually thinking, and it’s doing laundry for the first time, and they’re singing and, and I remember just being in the audience and being like, Oh, my God, they get me they get me caught me. So I knew that was something I wanted to be involved. And they touched on issues like sexual health, also mental health, diversity, very similar to what I’m doing with sex. So I went on to be in that and then direct it. And then I worked with the dean because we thought it was such a powerful model. So it used to be just in frosh week. But I worked with the dean and Maddie burns, who’s also around Toronto, to turn this into a programme that would run throughout the year at Queen’s. So we would go into residences, and if they were having a problem with alcohol on their floor or eating disorders, we had scenes for that, and we would perform scenes and then have talkbacks. So that’s really what drove, I was like, Okay, this is something this is huge, like art for social change. So that and also just being part of Exeter, as a cast member was the most really I became who I am by being part of that. I know it sounds corny, but it’s true. Because I mean, we’re in this group, we had a common goal again, you come together for like 10 days before the show opens, you’re eating, sleeping and breathing, the show and the people. And it’s just this shared experience, and I don’t think I’ve ever felt so part of a group are so comfortable in who I am. And, and it’s such a safe space that you have that freedom to completely be yourself. Yeah. And that’s I just thought every kid deserves that every kid needs that. So that’s kind of the environment that I really tried to create with the group with sex. So they’re a little younger that started in high school now some of them are in university. But feedback from them as well is that it feels like a family. And it’s that it also that shared experience like we’re going through right now, where I mean we open and friend and a few days and and it’s that panic of how is this going to be on a stage and a few days. But then when you come together and you’re all in it together, then you put in this when you pull it off, and you’re in front of an audience for the first time. It’s just there’s nothing better than that.
Phil Rickaby
How to I mean fringes. I mean, next week.
Shira Taylor
Yeah. Thanks for the reminder.
Phil Rickaby
People know when we’re, like, a week away,
Shira Taylor
oh, yeah, we’re right in the right in the action.
Phil Rickaby
And so everybody must be getting a little bit tense about presenting this at a fringe. How’s that? Going with the cast?
Shira Taylor
So it’s interesting, right, because it’s very different. So I’m in the shakey shake show right now it’s both night there. We’re doing a fringe as well. And that’s all professional actors. Right? Right. So it’s a very different vibe. But there’s something awesome about the the nervous energy that comes from people who haven’t done this a million times. So I kind of I love that I feed off of it. But also what’s been nice is we’ve had some experience, like many experiences performing leading up to this. So I brought them to the foot Festival at U of T. And that was an experience where we had a week to prepare again, half the kids were in exams, we had tech, and it was a disaster Tech was just a complete disaster. And then the next day, they go on stage, and I’m like, Well, you know, what, if nothing else will live will live enough this room of academics Yeah. And then they went out there. And I didn’t even recognise them, they blew me away, like I was just like, wow. So I’m also lucky that it’s everyone involved seems to be the type of people who feed off an audience, they come alive in front of an audience, which is a very important trait. So I do trust them in that way. But we also got to perform at their high school, which is a very interesting experience last month. And that’s different because this is the first time we had an audience who didn’t all choose to be there. Right. Right. So in the past, we had done shows in their community, but it was whoever decided to show up. But this was like, they brought full classes. And it’s very, and also, this is a contentious issue right now, because we’re steps away from where the sex ed curriculum protests had happened a few months ago. So there is a very, like, religious environment in the school. So it’s, it was very interesting. So again, I kind of, you know, set them to the walls. And what was amazing was, again, from the second they started, they started performing. They had this room of of high school students. Also, it was really interesting, because the way the room ended up being was it was mostly girls. But then there were three rows of guys in the back. And they were all kind of like, their posture was very like, what is like, what is this theatre thing you’re dragging me to write? So I was like, well, this could go either way. But they started from the second they started, they just had the audience in the palm of their hands. And that was incredible. And I think also really, all the cultural elements we’ve added really landed because we have one scene on homophobia performed half and Ooredoo, which is a language spoken in Pakistan. And most of the people in the audience understood. So that was, I mean, it’s a funny scene, even if you don’t understand it, I always say to them, like, I’m trusting you guys, because I have no idea what the heck you’re saying. But it was it was so neat to see it land in front of their peers like that. So I think that was a really good experience for them to perform in front of other teenagers. Like, I don’t think there’s a tougher crowd, really. And then I’ve also had been performed in front of the Health Centre staff. So that’s also a room of adults. So I had these kids yelling about vaginas in front of a room of adults, which is also a challenge. So I feel like I’ve been through the wringer enough at this point, they’ve just blown me away with how they’ve risen to the challenge. So I’m hoping a fringe audience will be, you know, really, like supportive. I think, hopefully, they’re hopefully they’re ready, but it’s the kind of thing where, like, you know, we’ll find out on opening night. Right.
Phil Rickaby
You mentioned shaky shaken friend. Yes. How long have you been working with shaky shaky
Shira Taylor
five years?
Phil Rickaby
Which show did you join with
Shira Taylor
the first one? I’ve been there since so Romeo and Juliet. So So Lucy’s sitting over there on the chair, so we played Juliet. Juliet,
Phil Rickaby
and big difference between putting those two shows together? Yes. And we’ve I’ve talked with Tom McGee on the show, I’ve listened. So what’s it like working on a kid show with puppets as opposed to working? I mean, there are kids but for for kids on stage, what’s the how does that like there’s obviously differences. So what’s the what’s it like doing shakey shake and then going straight over to
Shira Taylor
it’s really interesting because that’s been my all week it’s been a half day shakey shake and half day, I think. So Lucy, and I, I mean, she’s my roommate, as you can see the puppet Lucy, we’ve been together for five years. I feel very bonded with her. I think we’re an extension of each other, we have the same hair. So I find that like working with Lucy, we’re just kind of we’re we’re buds at this point. Like it’s it’s you know, we have we have our routine I talked to her, you know, it’s it’s healthy. But I think they’re actually probably, in some ways more similarities than differences because the energy of the shakey shake shows are very much this is a show for kids, but it’s hilarious for adults and that’s thanks to how Tom McGee writes. So it’s still it’s fun. Like I genuinely find all the jokes and shakey shake, like like fall over hilarious. And I think that’s kind of similar, a similar vibe to what we’re doing with sex in that yes, this was conceived as a show for like by you for you, but I think it’s a really amazing experience for adults as well. And we try and make it tight, we touch on some really serious issues we touch on rape and abuse, and homophobia, and racism and all these, but we still try and make it relatable and, and the way shakey shake is throwing in all these pop culture references to make it relatable to the here. And now we’re also doing that with throwing as many pop culture references as we can, like both shows have Beyonce references, spoiler alert. So, of course, it’s different in that you’re working with professional actors and shaky shaky tend to start more on time. That kind of thing. But it is kind of similar in that shaky shakes a family, it’s a group of best friends at this point who’ve been doing it for a long time together, even the new people have fit in well, same kind of vibe with sec. So I think we kind of run the companies in similar ways, even though they could not be more different. If that makes sense. Does
Phil Rickaby
it does it does make a lot of sense. As somebody who spends most of their time navigating the world of academia, um, what’s it? What’s it like coming out of out of the academic world and into the theatre world, like on an almost daily basis?
Shira Taylor
Well, I definitely I do spend most of my life in the world of academia, but I still I’m a theatre person who’s kind of on loan to academia versus the other way around. Right? So to be honest, I feel way more like a fish out of water in academia than I do in the theatre world, like hands down. So it’s, it’s an interesting balance, I think the struggle is getting the academic world to see value in in this work. So for example, I’ve had, like on my supervisory committee, I was about two years into my thesis. And I got the question like, why theatre? Like you assume people go to the theatre and feel things? And I was like,
Phil Rickaby
yes, they were asking whether people went to the theatre to feel
Shira Taylor
things. Yeah. They said, No, they were they were accusing me of making this assumption that people go to the theatre and feel.
Phil Rickaby
And of course, they don’t want that because their academic,
Shira Taylor
well, they, well, I guess, are they thought, like, do you have to feel at the theatre? I guess I don’t, I don’t. So because you know, it’s true. My whole thesis is based on the fact that theatre can get at these issues on an emotional level, when I talked about empathy earlier, as well as on a kind of a more knowledge brain level. I mean, people can throw that’s kind of the basis of this of my PhD is people can talk at you all day long. But if it doesn’t relate to your own experiences, and it’s not engaging, and it doesn’t make you feel anything, is it going to really have an impact or change your behaviours? Probably not. So it’s more like I’m also part of the art for social change project, which is across Canada research project. Really exciting work going on. And the unofficial kind of mandate is just to get, we hate to use the word legitimise, but to legitimise the field of art for social change in Canada and have it valued. So I think, really, the struggle for me more is having the academic community just really value this work, which is kind of a constant struggle. But I’ve had some amazing moments where someone from my thesis committee will come to the show, and then send me an email after and say, Oh, I didn’t get it. But I get it now. But you’ve been talking about this. Because when you’re sitting in a room of academics, and you’re using the fancy language and all the jargon, it doesn’t get it the feeling you get when you see these kids on stage, like singing out about their periods and things that are really important to them, right, that can’t be necessarily quantified, although I do try and quantify it in my thesis. Yes, and I think that’s important. Another thing with academia is the struggle of quantitative versus qualitative data. And it’s a really kind of hot issue, and people get really, like offended about it. So there’s the camp of quantitative people who think it’s just airy fairy if you’re doing like interviews or qualitative stuff. And then there’s the qualitative people who’ve had their work not taken seriously for so long that they reject numbers. You can’t box me into numbers. But what I’m trying to do is I really do think that they can coexist, and I think there’s depending on the question you’re asking, there’s definitely space for both. So for example, I can quantify outcomes of my programme, so I had my kids fill out a survey after and also audience members who came to the show, fill out a survey, and you can I can run a statistic sits on that. And there’s quantifiable change and self esteem and sexual health outcomes that you can see. And I think there’s value in being able to report that. But if you want to understand why those changes happen, you have to talk to people. Right? Yeah. And then the other. The other side of that is this idea of knowledge translation. So in academia, we talk a lot, that’s really kind of the hot button thing in academia right now is knowledge translation. So it’s the idea that all this research happens, and then it sits on a shelf. But knowledge translation is taking the research and putting it out into the community. So it’s actually impacting people’s lives. And I’m really into using the arts and knowledge translation, because again, it does make you folk feel things. So so it’s really interesting. Like right now, what I’m trying to do with the show is, I’m taking some quotes that came out of my research, and we’re playing around with using those in transitions. And at the top of the show, because my biggest fear with bringing the show to the fringe, is that there are so many amazing backstories of what went into making the show happen. And the backgrounds of these kids come from those are amazing stories. So if someone just comes to the show, and they see these kids, you know, singing out about racism and sex, my fear is that they might not appreciate like, No, these are these kids stories of like, what the process was and what we went through and what this process has meant to the youth involved. Right. So that’s one one way I’m trying to bring this into the show, the research is, you know, when you hear some of the quotes from the youth, when they’re reflecting on their experience, and they’re so articulate when they reflect on it, that I think that’s a way of bridging the theatre and the academia. And I’m hoping also that might bring out some academic audiences to see this is living research. This is research, but it’s alive. And so yeah, I think the biggest challenge is just having this work really appreciated by the academic community,
Phil Rickaby
do you think that the resistance of the academic community has is at all similar to, I’m gonna call it resistance, but there is kind of a resistance that the non theatre people have to theatre? Like, they’ll go and see your Kinky Boots and ones or your butt field where people don’t saying it’s something they don’t see very often. And it’s hard to get them out to it. Do you see like, some kind of similarity and those two resistances
Shira Taylor
I think there’s a resistance to just get up and go to the theatre. I’m hoping that for people who are interested in the issues, people who aren’t even interested in theatre, people are seeing the research and the issues. That’s kind of the beauty of this show is it’s so real, right? These are people’s stories who are living in Toronto right now, I get so many questions about the sex ed protests, because because when people make the connection that I was in this neighbourhood before the protest started, but it’s interesting, because everyone’s wants to talk to me about these protests in the community and and what it’s like. And I think, what’s missing from the debate that’s been happening so far, and the public, it’s all adults, it’s all adults talking at each other yelling at each other. There’s no real dialogue, really, it’s just a different opposing viewpoints being yelled at each other. So with our show, it’s the youth perspective, which I think has been like, spectacularly lacking from this debate. And so and it’s from the youth themselves, and it’s, it’s, it’s real, and it’s right now. So my hope is that people who are kind of maybe resistant to this mode of of theatre, it’s like, well, you know, you’ve been you’ve been coming to me and asking me perspectives, but why don’t we hear from people who live in the community and young people. And the other hope is that it’s a starting point for dialogue that the show can get dialogue going. So it’s not, it’s not that we want someone to come to our show, and then be Oh, no, that’s not my viewpoint and leave but hopefully, it might make people think a little bit differently on the issues or see the youth perspective or think differently about diversity or any of these types of issues. So I really think this type of theatre is more universal pneus than for just people who love theatre. We also do sing like we have a song about periods, instead of let it let it go. We sing Let it flow. That’s good. Yeah.
Phil Rickaby
The I mean, speaking about the dialogue, have the kids who are involved in this show found that doing this show has made it easier for them to have dialogue with both their peers and also their parents about about these issues?
Shira Taylor
That’s a great question. Um, it’s very interesting, because so in the group there are, you know, different levels of comfort, different family, but yesterday, I was actually having a conversation with one of the cast members, and she was saying that she was one of the ones that at the beginning, like when I handed out condoms, say, Okay, we’re gonna learn to put a condom on like, these are the 10 steps, which we also teach in our show. Um, So she was didn’t want to touch the condom. So it’s interesting because I’ve been through quite a journey with some of the the youth participants. So it’s been two years, right. And I get them at a really like great age where they’re coming into their own identities. And, you know, we’ve been through a lot together at this point. So I was having a great conversation with her yesterday after rehearsal, and she was saying, how, you know, her aunt was saying something super homophobic. And she decided to take on her hands on the issue. And she did credit that to her experience in the programme, which I thought was really neat. And, and it was interesting, because I’m always trying to bring culture in and she was she gave this example I’m gonna get the story, the the actual facts wrong, but it was this idea of this Indian God that had both male and female in them. I’m not sure I don’t know much about it. But she used that as a way to connect to her hands on the issue, which I thought was really incredible and saying, well, so you have a problem with transgender people. But yet, you know, in our history, this God was worshipped and, and so she went there. And I thought that was amazing. I had another example where one of the youth was talking about how his mom said, Oh, I’d really like to vote for Kathleen Wynne, and this was two years ago, but she’s gay, so I can’t. So so he kind of went in and talk to her about that, I’m pretty sure she did vote for caffeine, but I didn’t check. But so that kind of thing. But then it’s interesting to so for some of the youth, a positive outcome of the programme would be increased comfort, talking about the issues with the family. But for some, that’s really just not a reality. For some of them, the parents, you know, and I was I always, you know, explain that, you know, your parents grew up in a different country, they did not have access to programmes like this. So people are a product of their experiences, but there are some people who would be at risk if they brought these issues up to their parents. So in that case, it just becomes, I just try and put forward to them that okay, well, if you don’t agree with your parents, You’re your own person now. And you know, take what they say with a grain of salt, take what I say with a grain of salt and figure out your own identity. So
Phil Rickaby
with the kids doing the show,
Shira Taylor
well, a lot of the parents don’t know that their parents are doing that the kids are doing the show, some know, to varying degrees. So I remember the first round, one of the youth told his his parents, he was at his show about living in Canada, not a lie, not a lie. Some of them focus on the fact that it’s on racism and diversity, which is true. Yeah. Some of them just don’t mention it.
Phil Rickaby
I can understand that.
Shira Taylor
But I think that just speaks to how much the cast believes in the show, if they have to go to such elaborate lengths to be able to be a part of it and to have that their voice put out there.
Phil Rickaby
Yeah, no, that’s really cool. How, I mean, these kids are coming in and they’re, they’re, they’re, they’re coming to you without any theatre experience, for the most part, yes. And some of them have left and gone on to college or university, are still involved with the show. Do you see? Have you seen the kids coming, coming out with more of a connection to theatre or more of an interest in theatre? Or has that just been this show that they’re interested in?
Shira Taylor
Totally? What’s really interesting, what I love about it is if you sat them all down and ask them what they want a career in? Most of the answer would not be theatre. But we’ve had really interesting discussions about how in my research, like what one one boy was saying, Well, I want a career in business. But this has helped me so much because I feel more charismatic, the improv exercises I can, I can talk more freely and I’m more comfortable. A few of them actually reported back to me after a few months from the first programme that they’re their Class Reps at university now, because it’s nothing for them to get up and talk in front of a tire lecture theatre. So there’s there’s that, I mean, some of them really do have serious talents, like really like they can really make it as actors. And it’s been really an honour for me to be able to now expose them to the theatre scene, and to have in having guests artists come in and work with them that are you know, real heavies in the Toronto theatre scene, what a neat opportunity for them to to work and be mentored by all these guests artists. So I feel really good about the fact that I’ve been able to give them the chance to work with so many artists and develop it. And I just think really, even the ones who don’t necessarily want a career in theatre, I think they do have just an appreciation for it and a drive to see to see more theatre. And I also am really excited because I know when I moved to Toronto, being a part of the Fringe Festival was the first time that I felt like Toronto was my home, right? Cuz just that summer, the Fringe Festival is just so amazing. It’s the vibe of it that I You know, it’s all happening in one in these close quarters, and there’s so many shows going on and, and there’s always something to do, and it has that family vibe. And I’m really excited for these youth to have that experience. Also living in that community. Like there’s this, sometimes it’s quite isolated from the rest of Toronto, so they might not otherwise and some who are going on to university, that’s not necessarily the case anymore. But for some of the younger ones, they might not venture downtown very often. So for them to see what’s out there for them in Toronto and just see what’s out there, they’re going to be right smack in the middle of it, they’re going to be a part of it, which I think is huge.
Phil Rickaby
I did a show a couple of years ago, with Keystone theatre, we had an element where there was a high school student doing like a short with us. And we were all like your work is like you’ve never done French before, get out and see stuff and like, see as much as you can get that performer pass and go to see if you can, because it’s a great experience to do that and to see the things, see what’s out there in a way that you might not have
Shira Taylor
before. Absolutely. And we’re also we’re starting an Indiegogo campaign, we’d also like to be able to provide other youth from their community free tickets and free transportation to the show, too. So that’s something we’re working on right now, as well, because it’d be nice if so we have some, you know, some of the people who perform for the high school who love the show, I’d love for them to be able to come and see what the Fringe Festival is all about. So they were really trying to, I think that’s, that’s one of the major issues with theatre in Toronto is where it’s accessible. So, for example, when I was going through applications for this programme, the first one I read was this girl who wrote, you know, I love to dance so much, but I’ve never had access to dance lessons. So I taught myself to dance from YouTube. And now I’m holding free lessons in the library for other use in the community who didn’t. And I was like, ah, that’s incredible. But there are and even just the community assessments, there are serious gaps in arts programming in certain parts, pockets of Toronto, and this is one of them. So So I think that’s a huge gap in that community. So I would just love for them to kind of have the chance to, to come to France to come to summer work and to see see what’s out there and not to see it as something separate from them. It’s something that they’re so integral to,
Phil Rickaby
I think we also I think there’s a tendency to look at theatre as either something that is a too expensive or be inaccessible in some way. Which is something that fringe sort of shows you if you can experience it, that that’s not the case, right? It doesn’t have to be expensive, and it’s often not expensive, right? And it’s, it’s really accessible. So it’s really great to get people who are who have not had that experience, right into the thick of it totally. So you’re performing in shakey shake, and you are directing sex? Yes. And there may be times when you’re running from one to the other. That’s gotta be an exhausting schedule.
Shira Taylor
It’s, it’s interesting, because I also have the PhD. And I have two other jobs. So I work up north. So I’m going I’d work at a sex ed camp in the Northwest Territories. I do their evaluation, and then on this art for social change project. So it’s it’s something
Phil Rickaby
we’re almost at a time, but I wanted to make sure that we mentioned the wind venue at fringer. At
Shira Taylor
yes, we’re at the annex theatre, theatre, and some are throughout the factory studio,
Phil Rickaby
and an annex and once you which, which side of the fence do you open on the 29? Perfect, and you have a website? We
Shira Taylor
do. It’s www dot sex education by theatre.com. And our hashtags are at sex ed show. I’m sorry, that’s our handle. Our hashtag is hashtag sex to add. So sex T Ed, like sex ed, but sex dead? Yeah. It’s been great. Thank you so much for talking to me.
