Michael Ross Albert

Michael Ross Albert is the author of several plays including Miss (FringeNYC; Unit 102 Actors Company); The Farmers Lit the Fields on Fire (Edinburgh Fringe Festival); The Grass is Greenest at the Houston Astrodome (FringeNYC, published by Applause in Best American Short Plays 2014-2015); and Karenin’s Anna (Toronto Fringe Festival, “Outstanding New Play,” — NOW Magazine), as well as the 2018 Toronto Fringe hit, Anywhere.

Along with the Storefront Theatre, Michael produced the sold-out world premiere production of his play Tough Jews in the heart of Toronto’s Kensington Market. The production was nominated for 6 Dora Mavor Moore Awards, including Outstanding New Play and Outstanding Production.

His play Starfishes opened Off-Broadway at the Theatre at Dance New Amsterdam and is included in Best American Short Plays 2010-2011. It has since been performed across the United States and Canada.

Michael received an MFA in Playwriting from the Actors Studio Drama School at Pace University. Michael is an associate member of the Dramatists Guild of America, and a member of the Playwrights Guild of Canada.

The Huns
The morning after a break-in at a tech company, three co-workers assemble for a conference call to discuss the burglary. What starts as a civilized, professional meeting swiftly devolves into a brutal showdown that puts everyone’s careers– and their hopes for future happiness– in jeopardy.

STREETCAR CROWSNEST: GULOIEN THEATRE
345 Carlaw Ave.

Friday July 5, 9:30pm
Saturday July 6, 6:15pm
Sunday July 7, 8:30pm
Tuesday July 9, 7:30pm
Thursday July 11, 5:30pm
Friday July 12, 10:15pm
Sunday July 14, 4:00pm

Instagram:OneFourOneCollective
Twitter:@OneFourOneCo
Facebook:https://www.facebook.com/onefourone/
Tickets:https://fringetoronto.com/fringe/show/huns

Transcript

Welcome to Episode 190 of Stageworthy. I’m your host, Phil Rickaby. Stageworthy is a podcast about people in Canadian theatre featuring conversations with actors, directors, playwrights, and more.

The Toronto Fringe Festival starts in just a few days, and I’ve been thinking a lot about shows that I want to see. I’ve been putting together a list of all of the shows and putting them in my schedule, but I’m leaving space in the second half of my schedule for shows that haven’t landed on my radar yet. One of the joys of fringing is finding a show that you didn’t even know you would like, and suddenly it drops into your lap and you fall in love with it.

That’s one of my favourite things, and so I’m leaving space in my schedule for those shows and for other shows that just sort of come up. I would love to hear about the shows that you’re looking forward to, so please tell me about them by finding me on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, at stageworthypod. But you know what? I also have to do my own self-promotion, so I want to tell you again about my show at the Toronto Fringe, The Commandment.

The Commandment is a dark comedy about what happens when an atheist discovers that he’s been chosen to deliver God’s new commandment. It’ll be presented at the Terragon Extra Space, and you can find out all about it by finding it in your Fringe listings or by following me on my social links on Twitter and Instagram, at philrickaby, and you can also find details on simpletruththeatre.com. My guest this week is Michael Ross-Albert. Michael is a Toronto-based playwright, and his play The Huns opens at the Streetcar Crows’ Nest at this year’s Toronto Fringe.

How many Fringes have you done? This will be… Well, so this is my second Toronto Fringe as a producer. It’s my third Toronto Fringe as a playwright, and it will be… Oh, my God. It’s going to be my ninth? Ninth? I did five Fringe NYC, one Edinburgh.

It’s my eighth. Right. Wow.

Yeah. Wow. That’s pretty crazy.

I am a Fringe person. How early in your career did you do Edinburgh? Very recently. Yeah, okay.

That was in 2017. Okay. But my first Fringe was in New York, was Fringe NYC.

We talked about that the first time, yeah. Because Edinburgh is like, people are like, oh, you’re going to take a show to Edinburgh now? And I’m like, fuck no. Yeah.

I’m not ready for that. It’s… I mean, it’s beautiful. Yeah.

It’s amazing. The spirit there is cool. I don’t… Producing a Fringe show anywhere is hard.

Producing a Fringe show there is like, Herculean. Oh, yeah, I can imagine. If you’re cool with the experience being the payment… Yeah.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you can afford that, then great.

Yeah. But when I did Edinburgh, I was there… I had written a play for university students, and they took it over to Edinburgh, and me going for the festival was like my fee. So I got a cool trip.

Yeah. I wasn’t producing it. There were performances where no one showed up, and that was totally fine by me.

Right. Yeah, it was… It’s mad. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I mean, have you been? Have you… I haven’t been. I haven’t been. I mean, the closest… People are like, oh, you’re going to go to Edinburgh? I’m like, I’m still scared of Edmonton Fringe, because that’s the biggest one here.

If I can get through and be okay with going to Edmonton, I might start to consider Edinburgh. But until the thought of performing in Edmonton doesn’t give me cold sweats, I think I’m not quite ready. Sure.

Yeah. That’s fair. I would recommend going on a vacation, going fringing in Edinburgh on a trip.

It’s a lot of fun. You can see a lot of stuff. Drink a lot of beer.

I’m sure there’s a lot of stuff that you would never see anywhere else. Yeah. I saw a Finnish clown acrobat show.

I really curated my festival there. So I was like, today will be the modern realists. And I saw an Ibsen, a Chekhov, and a Strindberg in the same day.

Yeah, it was heavy. And then I took the next day off. But you can really see everything.

Yeah, yeah. I just want to say, because I think you’re aware of how much I enjoyed your show anywhere last year. Thank you.

But I still… When people are talking about great shows that I’ve seen at Fringe, it’s one of the ones that’s on top of my list. Oh man, thanks a lot. Yeah.

That show was pretty well received last year. It was great. I was so thrilled and quite surprised.

Yeah. And yeah, we couldn’t have been happier with everything. Basically, we got our friends together.

I love working with Dave LaFontaine, the director, and Cass Van Wyk. And I became really good friends through the process leading up to the rehearsal. And Courtney Sung-Lancaster and I had wanted to work together for a little while.

And we had Marvin Araneda, stage managing, and Lindsey Junkin doing the costumes. And we really just rehearsed in the assembly theatre. And it’s a serious play.

It’s heavy, but it felt like we were just sort of hanging out with friends. Not hanging out, like there was work being done. But we were having fun and not really… It’s going to sound arrogant, but I don’t think we were working that hard at the producing side of it.

And all of a sudden, our opening night was sold out. And we went, why did this happen? Were you surprised because you hadn’t been doing a whole lot of promotion or something? I, like no more… It didn’t feel like we did the amount of work required to sell out the run of the show. But maybe we did.

It really took us by surprise. And the first night was pouring rain. And it started at like 9.30 or 10 o’clock at night.

It was a later show. And we just stood and watched the factory fill up with like soaking wet, excited people. And that kind of set the tone for the entire run.

We’re very, very lucky and very fortunate that it was received so well. Well, because it’s interesting, because I think a lot of people think about a successful fringe show as a comedy. It’s so bizarre.

I don’t know how… I don’t think… I can’t remember the last time I saw a serious play in fringe, let alone it being one of the… like the patron’s pick of the factory studio. So yeah, we got very, very lucky. You know, we tried to… At the end, towards the end of the festival, we’re kind of looking around at the line for waiting, the waiting list line and thinking, how did this happen? And I think last year in particular, there was a lot of improv.

There was a lot of comedy. And this was sort of like a play. And there was maybe, maybe there were just fewer options.

I don’t know what happened, but we got very, very lucky. Yeah, yeah. It was really good and justifiably lucky, I think.

Thanks. I don’t know if it’s luck or whatever, but it definitely deserved all the attention it got. Oh, thank you.

But you had your second show, we talked about that last year, that was also the other one that you wrote with… Yeah, The Grass is Greenest at the Houston Astrodome. And that was a really lovely production of it. It’s a play of mine that I like.

I think, I guess I like all of my plays, but I was really, really thrilled that Lauren McKinley spearheaded this production of it. And it put together a really great team. They all did very, very good work.

And Lauren just won a My Entertainment Award for her performance. That’s amazing. Yeah.

So just to jump into this year. Yeah. The show is called The Huns.

The Huns. I mean, we’ve been talking about, we were talking a lot about Anywhere, which was a very serious play. Yeah.

And The Huns, is it serious? How would you describe The Huns? We’re calling it like a menacing comedy. Oh, fuck, I like that. It is funny, I think.

I’ve watched people read the scripts. And I think that there’s kind of a… You know, I want to do, I want to make visceral theatre have really emotional reactions from the audience. And so I think that it will, like it’s uncomfortably funny.

It’s fast paced. And it’s mean. And it does deal with very, very serious subject matter.

But it’s the way we get to that is through social satire. So it takes place in an office, in a conference room at a tech company, a very chic, modern, downtown tech company. And there’s a bit of mystery around why these three characters are gathering for a conference call.

Tensions are high. And secrets begin getting revealed as the conference call continues. So there are three actors on stage.

And there are about a dozen unseen characters participating in, like on the phone. Which means we have to have a really great sound design. Yes, yeah.

And we got one. We’re working with Andy Trithardt. Nice.

And it’s like a ping pong match. Or like a Mr. Toad’s Wild Ride. The conversation keeps getting derailed.

The characters who are on stage really don’t like one another and have to put on a bit of a show for everyone that’s on the conference call. So we can see them. We see this, like the tension of trying to be professional and trying to keep their cool while all of these emotions simmer underneath.

There’s a certain logistical, I don’t want to say nightmare, about having a show where there’s a dozen voices that you don’t see. Yes. I just was speaking with Andy.

We’re very early on in this process. And he basically was saying that the stage manager will need to be kind of the fourth scene partner and introduce the possibility that actors might forget a line. And immediately our faces just like dropped.

What if that happens? Because you’re dealing with recorded voices. Yeah, it’ll be a fun one. I’m kind of breaking a sweat for your stage manager on that one.

Thanks. Me too. It’s going to be more, and I guess this is the case with comedy, is that it’s more technically precise.

In drama, you can languish in moments. And there’s really no room for that in this new piece. No, and I think that’s often the case with most comedies.

Like if you languish, you’re probably going to kill the joke or kill the momentum, you know? Yeah. And especially if we’re playing with sound cues that are recorded based on timing of different live conversations happening in sync with the recorded conversation. Yeah, it’s going to be fun.

It’s going to be super precise. That’s a lot of work. Yeah, it’s a lot of work.

And it’s a truncated fringe rehearsal schedule. So we’ve got our work cut out for us. Have you guys started rehearsals yet? No.

We just cast the play recently. We’re early. When I last spoke to you, I think a couple of weeks ago, you were like, we’re not cast yet.

Yeah, basically. We now are. We have our cast.

I’m very excited about working with each of them. There are three actors. One is Cass Van Wick, who was in Anywhere.

She’s producing again. She got picked in the lottery two years in a row somehow. Wow.

There’s a lot of people who probably aren’t happy to hear that. My text message. She texted me and said, so I got picked in the lottery again this year, and I think I responded, fuck off.

Yeah, I think you’re probably not the only person who would respond that way. You know, well, and just, I mean, it’s great for me. Yeah, absolutely.

I’m happy I got a spot through our collaboration. But I applied every year for a decade and never got in. And so I understand the frustration.

My friend, Karlyn Ramey, maybe five years ago, entered the Cath lottery. First time. She’d never done a fringe.

And she got it. But it was like, fuck you. I know.

That was the case with Cass last year that she had never applied. And yeah, just first fringe out of the gate. It’s awesome.

And second. That’s awesome. And the second one.

Yeah, so she is… So the difference, I think, is that when Cass approached me last year, I had kind of had an idea for a two-hander with women that was this type of thriller that changed a bit in the writing process, but was basically what Anywhere was going to become. And I have only been working on like full lengths over the last year and haven’t really thought about what a new one act would look like. And so when… Last year, Cass kind of gave me free reign, said, I want to produce a play that you write.

I want to be in it. It should have a small, you know, be a fringe, a portable show. Other than that, sort of do you.

And this time around, it took some consideration and some conversation because this is the second year at that following a sold out run. So we kind of decided we’re gonna add another actor to the mix and write a three-hander. And it should be more of a comedy than a serious play.

And that sort of started the ball rolling. So she is one of the cast members. One of the other roles, the woman who’s sort of leading the conference call is going to be played by Brianna Dillon, who’s amazing.

And there’s this sort of big baby in the room who doesn’t want to be there at all. He’s kind of like a CrossFit bro. And he’s being played by Jamie Cavanaugh.

Nice. Yeah. So it’s a really great team.

What about all the voices? Because there’s 12 people. Yeah. We have to figure that out.

That’s because that’s the how do you do that? I don’t know. A couple of them have to speak French. It’s we have to pull a lot.

We have to ask a lot of favors. And the thing is, is we need to really do that soon. Because a key to making the timing and the comedy work will be having those recordings.

So we’re starting a little bit of a plan of begging people to record. You might not have to beg that hard. I hope not.

Especially, it’s a recorded voice. It’s almost like a cameo. It’s like a walk on for people, right? It’s strange.

And I’m trying to think like, do I show them the entire script? Or can they just read their lines? I don’t know what’s funnier. But that’s maybe next on the list. So this is set at a tech company.

It is. Have you worked in that world? My sister does. Yeah.

And through her, I’ve kind of been able to sort of watch from the sidelines a little bit. And what really… The reason I thought it was kind of a place that’s rife for social satire is because this is the young bourgeoisie. Sure.

They’re people that have a very specific skill set that make a lot more money than I do. And so I’m very interested in what young people with money are like, I guess. And also, the rate of depression and anxiety and mental illness, specifically in that industry, is alarming.

And so in writing, in wanting to tackle depression and anxiety, and these things that I feel that I’ve certainly been feeling more recently. This was a hard winter. And I think everyone was kind of in this funk.

So I think the arena is rife for exploring those issues in it. It’s really interesting. I work in a tech company.

I’ve seen a lot of… There’s this event that happens in September. It’s called Startup… Ah, I can’t remember. But it’s like Startup Open House.

So you go down to all the Toronto startups. A lot of people go to look for a job. But you can also go and just be like, oh, so this is what Google looks like.

Or this is what Shopify looks like. And a lot of them, it’s like, there’s a lot of money just in the ambiance. And for some of them, everybody talks about culture.

But for some companies, culture almost seems to be, we have breakfast in the morning. And you can drink in the afternoon. We’ll open up the bar.

And that’s culture. But for that, in a lot of places, it’s almost like, we expect you to work for 12 hours a day. Yes, exactly.

And a lot of that is touched on in the play. These are, you are in a sense, being tricked into thinking that you have a lot of value to a company that probably sees you as a number cruncher or as a pair of fingers coding. A pair of fingers.

10 fingers. A pair of hands. A pair of hands, yeah.

And there are all of these perks. But people stay till all hours of the night and work weekends and in open concept spaces where everyone thinks they’re being watched constantly. And they probably are.

It’s a really, I can understand why there is so much, so many heightened emotions. And I’ve watched, in starting to kind of research the piece more emotionally than actually, because I don’t understand technology. There are YouTube videos of people just talking about how much they hate their jobs and pricing out their week in terms of the amount of available time that they have to themselves in their condos downtown.

It’s a world I’m really not a part of. And there’s so much sadness. Yeah.

And so much anxiety that comes with it that I think it’s definitely worth addressing. Yeah. It certainly is the trade-off that you make in a lot of companies where, and especially with younger people starting out, they’re willing to put in all those hours for the perks because they think that they have to.

It’s so hard to find a job. Right. If you leave right at five on the dot, which I do.

I think people get very freaked out about, I’m not working hard enough. This isn’t, I’m replaceable. There’s someone on the other side of the revolving door that can do my job just as well as I can.

And it’s probably because the staff, the work that’s required of the staff isn’t necessarily individualistic. It’s not about creativity, and it’s not about insight or intuition, but it’s about this skill set that a lot of people have. That’s very true.

And I would be anxious. Yeah. I mean, I don’t have that skill set, so I don’t have to worry.

Yeah. But yeah, it’s a very different lifestyle than my own. Yeah.

Which I think is why I find it interesting. Well, it’s certainly fascinating. It’s really fascinating.

And there is, you think about all the anxiety. I know there’s a lot of companies where that happens. I’m fortunate in that I can leave at the end of my day.

Like, I work my eight hours and I can go. And it’s a luxury that I also took. Right.

You know, because I’m old. I’m 49. I’m ready to, I’m not going to, yeah.

Oh, you look great. Why, thank you. Thank you.

No, but I’m not putting in 12 hours every day for, you know. No, for what? For a job? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and I think that we’re lucky as artists or as arts-minded people in that we have something that fuels us.

Sure. That is work that we really enjoy. Yeah.

And if I were, if I was a writer that had any kind of structure and the stability to just be a writer, I might work 12 hours a day or I might work well into the night as I sometimes do. Because it’s, because it’s like that maddening, enjoyable work. Yeah.

The pursuit of something that we find meaningful. And the other stuff is how we pay for that. That’s right.

That’s right. And I mean, that’s why I leave it at the end of my day is that’s the time that I’ve carved out to do this podcast or write or prepare to do my show. Like, whatever it is, like, that’s what I’m doing after that, you know? Yeah.

And if I didn’t have that, what would I do? I might come home and watch Netflix or play video games, which I’m going to do anyway. Sure. But that’s not why I go home.

Right. And, you know, and like in this, this modern world in which we find ourselves, I think, I think it’s becoming so much more, the way we think about work has really changed. And there’s a lot of this conversation in the play, but we don’t prioritize leisure.

I don’t know if we ever did, you know? And like, and this is a very specific middle class, or what used to be called middle class type of work that we’re talking about. We’re not going to factories and exhausting ourselves. But whatever we have, we don’t have, we don’t value our time.

No. And our lives. Yeah.

We have really started to live to work. Yeah. And when you see stressed out people sending work emails on their phone when they’re supposed to be out having a good time, I find that really, really unfortunate.

But there’s also a social status thing, right? Like, I’m so important. I have to answer this email right now. I do think that that’s part of it.

There’s a certain like, if you all of your friends are performing that they’re that, oh, this is so urgent. I have to answer this client right now. Then you’re going to do it too.

Yeah. But like, if there isn’t like, if you’re not the minister, I don’t know, if you’re not a brain surgeon, if there’s no bomb coming that you need to warn the prime minister about, like your job is not so important that you can’t wait until the morning. That’s so true.

And that has always been my attitude. And I, you know, and I’m living the lifestyle. You know, like, I don’t have a car, a fancy condo or things that people that work that hard might have.

But I think I like things more. So yeah, I don’t know. I mean, that’s sort of the trade off, right? In a way, it’s the artist trade off of, you know, maybe I’m not living in a massive condo, but I kind of enjoy the things I’m doing.

Yeah. And I get, you know, I get to write plays and have people come, people stand in the rain to see something that I wrote. It’s amazing.

That’s so cool. Just to go back to that, what amazes me about that is that there hadn’t even been any reviews. There was no… No, I don’t know how it happened.

And that’s so freaking rare and amazing for that to just, you know, like for that wildfire to start right on the first day like that. Yeah, it was wild. It was nuts.

I really don’t know. I don’t know why. And it’s just, you know, with each production, it’s completely unpredictable.

You can’t tell which one is going to be successful. Because you don’t know what else, like what is happening this year at Fringe. You don’t know.

You couldn’t know that if this is what was it, that there would be like a ton of improv shows and everything would be comedy. No, you can only, you do what you want to do and hope for the best. And working with really good people that speak the same language, I think that might be why it didn’t feel like a ton of work.

Because, you know, watching these actors work with this director feels like playtime. Yeah. Even though the subject matter was very serious.

Yeah. I mean, anybody who didn’t see that show missed one of the stressful hours of theatre. But it was an exhilarating stress.

Like there was just this, it was like somebody took an elastic and just started stretching it. Yeah. And waiting for it to snap.

And it didn’t snap. So yeah, some people have asked if it could be a little longer. And I don’t know.

I don’t think I can. I don’t think you can sustain the tension. I think that if it was any longer, you would definitely lose something.

Yeah, I agree. Even, you know, after what I saw, I think I saw every there’s one performance I didn’t see and watching it over and over. I thought there’s a little room for this.

This moment is luxuriating. A little too long. Yeah.

But it is about sustaining that tension. And like, I don’t know, the knowing what the secrets are before I started writing was very important on this one. Right.

There were, there was one, there was one big one that no one saw coming. Right. And it was, and being in the audience was, was the most satisfying moment.

And, you know, some nights it was, the audience thought it was a rollicking comedy and they were talking. We had one late night, we had a Friday the 13th performance at 1130 p.m. And they were drunk and, and, and really talking back. But like in this kind of exasperated, frightened way.

And then there were some performances where you could hear a pin drop. And that’s, it was a very cool experience. It’s interesting because those moments where you can hear a pin drop, it’s like, nobody wants to move.

They’re so in it, which is a fascinating thing to watch in an audience. Yeah. It was, it was a really great experience.

Speaking of, um, tension in a show, um, we were just talking, uh, just a couple of weeks ago with, uh, Anne Van Lewin. Yeah. About come on, Angie.

And you brought that show to, um, they were a stranger. Yeah. I’m, I’m, I’m one of the producers.

Yeah. Uh, I’m friends with Aimee Le Lavoie, the playwright. And, um, I’m a huge admirer of her work.

And I read it, I read the piece a few years ago while she was working on it before the Me Too movement was a thing. Um, and so, and it blew my mind. You know, it’s, it’s really taught drama, really fascinating character, uh, study.

Yeah. And, uh, and, and a great example of, um, a writer playing with audiences’ perspectives. Yeah.

Uh, the way we see these characters at various points in the play is, are radically different. And everyone will leave having a different opinion about which line was crossed when and who is in the right. And, um, and I, I, it was a big success in Vancouver and I asked Aimee, who’s, who’s doing it in Toronto? Uh, and she said, no one’s really, no one’s really bit.

And, uh, I, I, I know that Anne, um, and Leroy Street were looking for, for another production that Anne would, would act in. Uh, so I kind of asked permission to show it to, uh, to them and, you know, immediately upon, this is the type of play that I think any actor worth their salt, if they want to go to the places that the play requires them to go to, will say yes immediately upon reading it, which is basically what happened and read the script and said, we just kind of need to do this. Um, and so that’s been, and thankfully audiences feel the way I do about it.

It’s, um, I’ve never seen so many people stay behind the assembly to talk after a show. Well, that’s sort of one of the interesting things is, I think that’s kind of what you want with, with a lot of shows. Like you don’t want people to, this is not, Come On Angie is not a show that anybody should stand up and say, well, that was nice.

And then get their coat and leave. They should have thoughts and stay to talk about them. Yeah.

And that’s always, that’s a great sign for a play. I think when people are still talking about it. Yeah.

I, I agree. I, um, I’ve gotten a lot of text messages or, you know, um, people touching base a few days after seeing it just saying, I can’t stop thinking about this or, um, and, and it is, and it is because it’s so disturbing because it’s so normal. Yes.

Yeah. Um, that I, I think that that’s the, that’s what, what really gets under people’s skin. And she’s, she’s such a talented writer that she goes into the like nooks and crannies of the deepest parts of our psyche that we don’t want to touch.

And, um, and it’s, it, it’s a good one. It’s, it is a very powerful piece. It certainly is.

I mean, it, it, it is not the kind of like, I didn’t leave thinking, well, I really loved that, but it was because it’s not a feel good romp. You have, you think about it for a long time afterwards. That’s not saying it isn’t without humor.

Oh, it certainly has a lot. Yeah, absolutely. And it has to.

The, the marvelous construction of this piece is that it is funny and knowing, knowing Amy is as well as I do, I can hear her, her jokes. I can hear her voice in both of the characters throughout the piece. And, um, uh, I laugh out loud.

I’ve seen it about six times. Right. Uh, and we, we are experiencing repeat audience members, which is really, really great that people are people bringing friends.

You have to see that kind of thing. Uh, yeah, to a degree, but I think, um, what I’ve seen more often is that people have gone with a friend and then wanted to come and see it again. And those are mostly men.

Interesting. Who, yeah, I think she’s really onto something. Well, I think the interesting thing about it is that I, and correct me if I’m wrong, cause you’ve seen it more times, um, and maybe heard more audience conversations.

I think that men watch it in a different way than women, especially the first time. Um, uh, maybe generally, I mean, generalizing, of course, I think that that’s, well, I think it’s really specific to the individual that there will, that however the news cycle has hit you, however, um, whatever your personal beliefs are, um, it, you will be, and I’ve heard from a lot of women who, who have said to me, I feel so guilty. I felt so guilty throughout most of the play because I was on his side most of the time.

Yeah. And it’s like, this is a really important piece. Like there’s, and I, and, and I hope that it is empowering.

Um, I, like, I, I think that as a, as a man, it’s absolutely a conversation that, that we need to hear and it should be, and it’s, and it’s articulated in a way for us dumb-dumbs that we can really hear the message of the play very clearly. And I think it’s also very important that women, um, if they have or haven’t experienced some kind of assaults, even if it is a, you know, an, a quote unquote innocuous one, like what is purported to have happened in the play that, um, that there is, there’s the, the ground, the framework, the groundwork for, for, for standing up to it for, for, for even if, even if they, even if one doesn’t, the awareness that this is not okay, you know, these small steps that the characters make, yeah. Have huge impacts on audiences.

Any who, I, yeah, I could talk about it, the play for a long time. One of the things, cause I remember, um, around the time that, that I asked on Facebook about content warnings, I think you were also wondering about warnings, which is a, and in fact, I’ve been seeing a lot of people talking about content warnings. There was an article in the star a little while ago about that.

And, and it’s, and I saw, um, uh, Howard Sherman, uh, in the States. He, he also copied it. He also saw that article and, and, and, and, and was looking for thoughts on it because it’s a question that it’s funny.

Cause I think that there’s a certain, all the millennials that I’ve spoken to are like, well, of course you would have a content warning. And a lot of some of the older people are like, well, why would you need it? Let’s stop being babies. Let’s, you know, it’s like a whole, almost generational attitude towards the two.

Yeah. I, the question for me or the, or the problem that I have wrapping my head around is if sensitive material is structured as a surprise. Um, how does one adequately prepare an audience? Because I don’t think, you know, we were just talking about audience participation.

And if I had known that sitting in this seat would mean that I would get made fun of in front of a room full of people, I wouldn’t have gone to the play. No, I just, I don’t like that type of experience. And if I am affected by, by this type of content, I think it’s, I think it’s your business to prepare someone for that experience.

Um, and this is where, this is where things get tricky. Um, I, my, you know, I, I, I, I like making audiences squirm. Um, I like, I personally like being surprised, um, by not by having an actor in my lap.

No, but by, uh, like when a play takes an unexpected turn, um, or takes a turn into darker material, I’m, I, that really gets my, my neurons fired. So, um, so that’s what I have difficulty with. And I saw your, there’s a great comment on your post, um, saying that if it is structured as a surprise, it’s fair to say there is a content warning.

Some people may find it triggering for more information, email us and we’ll tell you what it is. And I think that that’s, so we are doing that with the Huns. Um, there is a content warning.

If you want to know why you can send us an email. Um, uh, with come on, Angie, um, you know, it, it, we, we post the content warning on the front of the program. And I think because there’s no avoiding it, I, I did get a comment from an audience member saying 10 minutes in, I sort of didn’t realize what I was, it, it, it hit me what I was in for.

And I didn’t know if I felt like staying. And I thought that shouldn’t, you know, we’ve, and we’ve warned you, we said this very explicitly, this is what the subject matter is. Um, and, uh, you know, it’s, it’s one way or another, it will make for an uncomfortable experience.

Um, so, uh, I, I think, I think I’ve landed on the side of the argument that says it’s more responsible to take the audience’s feelings to heart and not the last thing I would want to do is have someone have a traumatic experience. Yeah. They can not enjoy the play.

That’s fine. That’s one thing, you know, they, they can, they can, it can be not to their taste, but for them to, uh, to, to, to carry this experience with them into the world in a negative way is unfair of, of the creator. I think I was, I was very much resistant to the idea for about a year.

Um, but it occurred to me just this year. Um, that if my play, for example, talks about suicide and I know some, I know some people very well this year who, who lost somebody. And, um, if I, and I would, I would warn them about my show, I would say maybe it’s too soon for you.

And then I thought if I would do that for my friend, why would I not do that for my audience? And so I, but again, it’s also a plot point. I know. So it’s like, how do you do that? Uh, it’s, I, I, I think that that’s a really great, uh, example or a really great suggestion that, um, whoever posted, I forget who it was.

Um, I think it was, uh, uh, uh, Georgia Dale actually, I think. Yeah. Well, it was a great suggestion, um, because I was resistant to it too.

I, you know, I remember there was a fringe show and the roof and what I read a review of it. I didn’t actually see it, but the review, it caused a lot of attention because the, the bent of the review was there should have been a trigger warning. And, and my first thought was, well, if you’re so triggered by that, you shouldn’t leave your house, you know, if you’re gonna like, and, and that’s a really ugly voice, um, that I have learned that has matured.

Yes. Um, because I know people that are, that are triggered by things that, that can move about the world like normal people. It doesn’t mean, it doesn’t mean we’re coddling the audience.

It doesn’t mean we’re holding their hands or treating them like babies. We’re, we’re taking their feelings into consideration and, and, you know, and, and moving forward with empathy, which is what this whole business is about. There’s, there’s a resistance, I think, to the word trigger to the phrase trigger warning.

Yeah. Certainly certain people have. Well, and you know, I was on a, I was on a university campus last year and there’s, you can see the eye rolls from faculty, like, and, and in a, um, my, uh, good friend is in a history department and has to do a trigger warning, um, before talking about ancient history.

And you think, oh, are we, like, it’s, you know, um, but it really doesn’t cost anyone anything. Yeah. That’s the thing.

And it doesn’t, it doesn’t cost anything. Yeah. But I, but I agree.

There is a very clear generational divide, uh, and I sort of straddle those two. And, um, uh, it, I, you know, I think it’s important to be on the, on the program. They’re going to be around a lot longer than I would rather.

Yeah. I’d rather be on the side of my audience than on the side of my ego, I think. Yeah.

I, I, I, I agree. I don’t mind pissing off an audience, but I don’t want them traumatized. Yeah.

Um, just jumping back to, to fringe. Yeah. You guys are in the new venue this year at Crow’s Streetcar, which is, which is a little further away than we’re used to for fringe.

Totally is. Um, does that give you pause or like, are you nervous about that? Well, um, we requested, uh, to be in there. We requested the studio space.

I’m working with, um, Marie Farsi. She’s directing the play. She’s the associate artistic director of Crow’s and she kind of lives in that building.

Yeah. So we, when we saw that it was a venue thought, this is a no brainer. She is going to be directing a show in the studio in the fall.

And this felt really like, like a good way of getting her feet wet in the space. And we were all, and, and, you know, it’s 90 seats and we’d sold that easy last year. So, and, and it’s, and it’s an intimate three hands that, um, that I think would do very well in the studio space.

And we were allocated the cavernous. Yes. Uh, main space, the Goloian, however you pronounce the Goloian, the main space at Crow’s.

Um, uh, so there are, there are lots of seats to fill. There are. Yeah.

Um, it’s what, 200? It’s, I think on the notes, I think it’s exactly 200. Um, it’s big. Yeah.

It’s, it’s, uh, you know. But is it bigger? Is it bigger than the main space at Factory? The main space at, or like the Randolph? No, it’s, it, it, um, I think it’s slightly, I think it’s, I think it’s smaller than the main space at Terragon. Um, it’s slightly bigger than Passmore.

Right. It’s about the same size as Factory. There’s something about the architecture of that building because it’s designed as a flexible space.

Right. Um, so when you, when you do this kind of proscenium style seating, uh, it can, it can look quite empty and, uh, filling it with, with a very small set and three actors will be an interesting challenge. Yeah.

But I’m, I’m confident that like, I think it’s a beautiful theatre. Absolutely. It’s a great neighborhood.

Um, there is a lot of hunger for the arts in that community that doesn’t come West. Yeah. So I’m, I’m hopeful that it’ll be a good, a boon for fringe.

I think it may be. I mean, if I was just talking with Coal Mine Theatre and their audience is almost entirely from the East end. Yeah.

Um, which says there is a hunger for it. I, yeah, I think so. And, and, um, you know, it’s on top of a, it’s underneath a condo building of people that, that would love to come see a play.

Sure. Uh, I hope, um, and we, and there’s an air conditioned bar. I mean, right outside the doors of the theatre.

Air conditioning is a big draw for a lot of theatres, unless it’s like St. Flats, but let’s talk about blankets. But that’s always the, the, that’s always, that’s also on my, I don’t want to be there list because there’s nothing worse than like doing a show and like watching your audience huddle under blankets. That’s a warning you need to give out.

Like I’ve, I had a show in St. Flats and I had to say, wear a sweater. Like, and people look at me like I’m insane. And cause you know, in the middle of heat waves.

But they also, every time I’ve been to the show there, they’re like, take a blanket. People are like, what is this for? And you’re like, you will need it. Just take the blanket, you know? So yeah, but I mean, I think it’s, it’s a great experiment for, for Fringe to move out there.

And I think your show sounds really great. So I’m looking forward to seeing it. Oh, thanks.

Is there, this is, I mean, this is going to be like, I think much like anywhere, like the first time this is staged. And so I’m sure you’re going to learn a lot about this show between now and when it’s up there. But right now, is there something in particular that you’re excited to learn about the show? Um, there, there is a lot of talking, uh, without a lot being said in this play.

And I think that there’s, there’s one relationship in particular that’s very suggested more than, um, and I’m, I’m really interested to see how that’s accomplished through acting and directing, um, how in a bombastic comedy, there can be room for subtlety. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, so I’m, I’m anxious to get into the rehearsal and see that.

Um, and, uh, I think the, how we, how this play will go from comedy to serious-y, um, is, uh, is something I’m interested in refining. Also, these guys are so good. Yeah, yeah.

It’s like, it, it, it, it’s a really great cast and I’m, I’m excited to be in the room with them. I love working with Marie Farsi. Yeah.

Um, we, uh, this is our first time working together and just seeing her in auditions, talking to actors about what’s going on in the scenes, hearing her insights into the piece itself and the characters has been really wonderful. It’s a, it’s a great, it’s what the collaboration is off to a good start. Awesome.

Yeah. Thank you so much. It’s been a lot of fun.

Thank you for having me again. This has been a Homebody Productions production.