Bryn Kennedy and John Wamsley
John Wamsley is a gay, Indigenous actor, dancer, and choreographer born and raised in Kitchener, Ontario. Since graduating from the Theatre and Drama Studies program at Sheridan College and the University of Toronto, he has been fortunate enough to work both on and off stage developing a passion-project entitled off my chest., which was presented at this year’s Dark Crop Performance Festival. John’s recent credits include the sold out run of the Fringe 2018 Patron’s Pick, Everyone Wants a T-Shirt!, Private Harris in The Grand Theatre’s production of Timothy Findley’s The Wars, and participation within the 31st annual Weesageechak Festival. John is currently the Communications Manager for the Paprika Festival, and continues to do graphic and video design for several theatre companies in the GTA. He also works in a restaurant… typical.
Bryn Kennedy has been an actor ever since she can remember, but found her passion for directing in high school when she lead a production of ‘night Mother at the Sears Drama Festival, winning an Award of Excellence in Directing and Producing. Since then, Bryn has continued this journey, taking Directing with Richard Rose at Tarragon Theatre and as a member of Nightwood Theatre’s Young Innovators Unit. She is also an arts educator and is growing her experience as an arts administrator with companies such as SOULO Theatre, Rabbit in a Hat Productions, Binocular Theatre and Nightwood Theatre. Her directing credits include, Jean Anouilh’s Antigone(co-director Rachel VanDuzer, UTMDC), Overtones, Beneath the Bed (Erindale Fringe Festival), Happy Family (Toronto Fringe Festival), Selections from Vitals (Paprika Festival Directors’ Lab), Reasons to be Pretty (RTBP Collective), Vitals (Theatre Born Between) and A Bear Awake in Winter (Assistant Director, Canadian Stage Workshop and Next Stage Theatre Festival with Binocular Theatre). She is a graduate of the joint Theatre and Drama Studies Program at Sheridan College and University of Toronto earning an Acting Diploma and an Honours Bachelor of Arts degree. Her special skills include baking, knitting and finding a way to mention her recent haircut in almost any situation.
BENEATH THE BED
Written by Gabe Golin
Directed by Bryn Kennedy
In the aftermath of a trauma, a young child meets a monster living under their bed and together they discover through searching the stars that this too will pass. An exploration of childhood and imagination, grief and loss, Beneath the Bed is a twisted tale exploding with music, wit, heart, and joy.
SHOW DATES:
Thursday, July 4 – 7:00 p.m. – Performance 1
Friday, July 5 – 8:00 p.m. – Performance 2
Saturday, July 6 – 2:00 p.m. – Performance 3
Sunday, July 7 – 2:00 p.m. – Performance 4
Monday, July 8 – 7:00 p.m. – Performance 5
Tuesday, July 9 – 8:00 p.m. – Performance 6
Thursday, July 11 – 8:00 p.m. – Performance 7
Friday, July 12 – 2:00 p.m. – Performance 8
Friday, July 12 – 8:00 p.m. – Performance 9
Saturday, July 13 – 3:30 p.m. – Performance 10
Sunday, July 14 – 2:00 p.m. – Performance 11
www.theatrebornbetween.com
Twitter: @tbornbetween
Instagram: theatrebornbetween
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theatrebornbetween
Tickets:https://fringetoronto.com/fringe/show/beneath-bed (on sale June 6)
Transcript
[Phil Rickaby]
Welcome to episode 185 of Stageworthy. I’m your host, Phil Rickaby. Stageworthy is a podcast about people in Canadian theatre featuring conversations with actors, directors, playwrights, and more.
Today marks the first of my Fringe episodes, so for the next seven weeks, we’ll be talking to performers and creators with shows in the Toronto Fringe. And don’t forget my regular Fringe Roundup on both of the Saturdays of the Toronto Fringe, where I will sit down with a group of artists and talk about their Fringe so far, what shows they’ve loved, and so much more. So I’ll get to today’s guest in a moment, but first, I wanted to tell you that I’ll be bringing my play, The Commandment, to the Toronto Fringe.
I’ve performed this show in a number of fringes, and this is my first chance to bring it home to Toronto, and I’m super excited. The Commandment is a solo play that asks what happens when an atheist discovers that he’s been chosen to deliver God’s new commandment, and will be performed at the Tarragon Extra Space. You can find out all about it by finding it on your Fringe listings, or by following me on my social links on Twitter and Instagram, at PhilRickeby, and you can also find details on SimpleTruthTheatre.com.
And as always, you can find the podcast on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at StageWorthyPod, and the website is StageWorthyPodcast.com. Now, let’s talk about TodayTix. TodayTix is an app and website that offers easy and access to a wide variety of must-see cultural performances, from plays and musicals to dance, opera, comedy, immersive experiences, and beyond.
So just added this week is the National Ballet of Canada’s Physical Thinking, which opens June 1st, and tickets are 83% off when you buy through TodayTakes. Also, there are rush tickets for By Heart at Canadian Stage, which starts on May 30th, and there are $17 tickets for the May 31st 8pm performance of the Stratford Festival’s The Merry Wives of Windsor, which is an awesome deal. TodayTakes makes ticket buying simple, and you can purchase tickets in less than 30 seconds.
Get it on iOS and Android, or go to TodayTix.com. My guests this week are Bryn Kennedy and John Wamsley of Theatre Born Between, presenting Beneath the Bed at the Scadding Court Community Centre, Room 4, as part of the Toronto Fringe Festival. And so the show is called Beneath the Bed.
So tell me about what that’s about.
[Bryn Kennedy]
So it’s about a child who experiences a loss and then finds that there’s a monster living under their bed. So that’s sort of the short answer. But to me it’s a show that’s much bigger than that.
It’s about the cycle of healing from trauma and how that kind of thing gets passed between generations. It’s full of music and puppetry and movement, and so it’s got all these beautiful elements that sort of weave this story together. Yeah.
[John Wamsley]
It’s like this big imaginative story that really focuses on this idea of escapism when you’re going through a childhood trauma, and different ways that we can cope with that and get through.
[Phil Rickaby]
But is it—I mean, it’s a story about a child, but is it a kid’s show?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah, that’s a good question.
[Phil Rickaby]
We get that one a lot.
[Bryn Kennedy]
I don’t like to think of it that way because I find that can be limiting. I think that we have certain expectations when we talk about TYA theatre that I don’t know apply to this show. I sort of like to think of it as age accessible rather than specifically for children.
I think children can come and see it and enjoy it. I think there’s tons that they will love that’s in the show. I also think there’s so much meaning for adults in the show that would be missed out on if we specifically marketed to a certain age.
[Phil Rickaby]
What would the children’s age range be for this show, do you think?
[Bryn Kennedy]
That’s a good question. I would say like seven and up, maybe?
[John Wamsley]
Yeah. Like you said, it’s very age accessible. It’s nothing that—we’re not specifically trying to market to kids or TYA, but we’re also not pushing that audience away.
We’re kind of just letting everybody come in because it is a very accessible show in that way.
[Phil Rickaby]
I mean, that is kind of good because the kid’s fringe is this robust thing, but it is segregated. It’s away from everything else. Things don’t cross over so much.
So it’s good to get a mix of children and adults in a show.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah. And I mean, it doesn’t have a lot of the sort of traditional kids’ theatre components. There’s no calling and responses with audience or audience participation or anything like that.
We’re not going to be singing any songs about the alphabet. We don’t have anything like that happening. But I think that there’s still so much for anyone of any age to enjoy.
Yeah.
[Phil Rickaby]
Now, the show is at—it’s a site-specific. And you chose a room at the Skadden Court Community Centre. Was there something particular that you saw in the room that you really wanted to use or what drew you to that space?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah.
[John Wamsley]
I found it was a very like—you go into that room and you’re automatically brought back to that play-like stage in your life and that imaginative sense. And I think that that really caters to this show and this show really caters to that idea. There’s this great sort of like interplay and exchange between the show and the space that we’re creating.
And this community centre room really works to enhance that experience. Yeah.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Because it’s the preschool room that they run a lot of their like very little children classes in. So, you know, it’s beautiful. It has construction paper art on the walls and sort of like pink-orangey flooring and tiny chairs.
It brings you right back to nostalgia, which is sort of a huge part of the feeling of our show, is that sort of bittersweet memory of childhood sort of thing. So we walked in and we just thought it was a really great fit and we really plan to base the show in that specific room. It will be very much about that space.
[Phil Rickaby]
What are the logistics of working in a room in a community centre where, I don’t know if during the summer they still have their preschool?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah.
[Phil Rickaby]
What are the logistics of like doing a show in that room?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah. I mean, it’s been a lot of coordination because Scadding Court Community Centre is a very busy place. It’s a well-used and well-loved community centre.
So, I mean, our contact there is wonderful and she’s been really supportive. You know, they love the fringe. The fringe, they know, they’re so familiar with the fringe.
The main base for the fringe team is the room next door to ours for the duration of the festival. So they’re very familiar with having fringe around.
[John Wamsley]
Yeah.
[Bryn Kennedy]
And they were super supportive of us asking to do a show there. But, you know, it’s a busy space. So there’s been a lot of coordinating schedules and, you know, working show times around community classes.
Yeah.
[John Wamsley]
And it was great. We went to do a tour just a little while ago just to sort of figure out like seating and kind of bring the cast in to really dream up what it is that we’re going to be doing in here. And there were about like, I don’t know, like a good handful of different groups in there and so many kids.
And it’s you go in there and you automatically feel like, yeah, like that sense of nostalgia. And I think it’s like a perfect spot to do the show.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah.
[John Wamsley]
Nice.
[Phil Rickaby]
Where did the show come from? How did it come to you for production at this at this Fringe Festival?
[John Wamsley]
Well, we, Brent and I both come from the same program. So we’re from the University of Toronto Mississauga and shared in college in the theater and drama studies program. And there is like a I guess like an extracurricular festival that originally Bryn and Gabe, our playwright, submitted and did the show as like a workshop in our in our third year.
And it’s always been something that we’ve wanted to continue develop for the past couple of years and decided that this year’s Fringe Festival was the place to do it. Yeah. Yeah.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, it started as a half hour workshop of the first half of the show. And we sort of developed that and we were amazed that we had a really positive response from audiences, which was really exciting because, you know, we created such a weird little specific world that, you know, you’re not always sure people going to connect with this.
And we were amazed that people really did, which was exciting. So, yeah, I talked to Gabe and I was like, I would love to continue this. Is there more in you to write about this?
And he was like, absolutely. The whole this could go so many places. So the first half of the play is about one child and then the second half of the play is about sort of the next generation.
So that child grows up and has a child of their own. And the second half of the play is about her daughter and where that goes.
[Phil Rickaby]
Interesting. When this play first came to you, when you were looking at it, when you were still in school, was it, did you at any point like wonder about the logistic or like what it would be like doing a show that’s predominantly about a child in front of non-YA audience?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Right. Honestly, it weirdly, it was only when we started pitching the show to sort of after we graduated to different opportunities and people really picked up on the child thing that I really started to consider that. Up until that point, it was just sort of another character.
And I think because of the way that Gabe has written the child, they’re so insightful and they have so many beautiful observations about the world that I never really considered their age as any kind of obstacle to connecting with them. I always just thought they just brought a really beautiful viewpoint to the play. And so we’ve always kind of treated that with a lot of respect.
We don’t, we’ve never used the child as like a character that gets talked down to or, you know, an actor playing them needs to play a certain age. Like that’s never really been the goal. So it wasn’t, it never really crossed my mind that they, that it would be an adult audience watching this story about a child.
[John Wamsley]
Yeah. It wasn’t really until, like you said, like we started like talking to other people and sort of realizing like, oh yeah, there’s kids in this show.
[Bryn Kennedy]
People started asking like, is this a TYA show? And I was like, oh, is it? To think about it.
And then I was like, I don’t, you know, we kind of talked about it and sort of decided no, no, it’s not really, there’s so much like maturity and, and, and humor.
[John Wamsley]
And like you said, like insightfulness with this like partnership between the child and the monster that yeah, it doesn’t really feel like you’re watching a kid’s show or a kid specific show.
[Phil Rickaby]
Were you feeling when people were asking about it, were you feeling like resistance about it because you were not talking to kids theaters or?
[Bryn Kennedy]
I mean, a little bit. The first time someone said it, I was like, what? No, it’s not.
Sorry. I had this like really bizarre reaction to it. And then I was like, wait, I guess I, I guess it is, that is a fair observation that it is about a child.
I just never really clicked into that. So I did sort of have to, I had an immediate emotional resistance and then I think I had to justify that and figure out why. I do still, I stand by our decision though.
I do. I think, yeah, I, I think it’s a show for everyone, but yeah. So there has been, there has been some resistance, which is sort of why we’ve been calling it kind of age accessible as kind of our compromise on that, because there isn’t going to be anything in the show that a child couldn’t see.
Like there won’t, it’s not going to be scary or, you know, everything will be age appropriate for everyone. But, so that’s sort of our compromise on that one.
[Phil Rickaby]
When you were experiencing that resistance, when people brought up whether it was, was kids theater, what did you, did you figure out like what your resistance to it was?
[Bryn Kennedy]
I think it’s just that it would, I think it would keep a lot of adults from seeing it. I think it would change the demographic that’s interested in the show. You know, I think you’d get the adults who have to go with their kids and you wouldn’t get necessarily people from our generation who don’t have kids or people who are just not interested in that kind of theater.
Like I do think, you know, I think there’s a lot of people who, who just, who might skip over the kids fringe section of the guidebook.
[John Wamsley]
Yeah. I think once you, once you label anything as like one specific thing, there is sort of like this sense of exclusivity with it that does scare audiences away sometimes, you know? So I think that that was like, we don’t, we don’t, there’s no need to limit what this show is capable of and limit the audiences that are like going to enjoy this.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah. And I do think that I think that sometimes, you know, uh, there’s theater that is accessible to kids, but it’s, it’s just theater that’s working at such a high level that anyone would see it enjoy, you know, like, um, things like the, the soul pepper, Peter Pan. And, you know, we’re starting to see a lot more theater that just sort of like works for everyone at a really high level.
Um, and that’s really exciting to me, you know? And so I sort of, um, I was like, what’s that, what can, what, what label do they have on that? Like that’s sort of more what to me feels authentic to this show rather than TYA.
[Phil Rickaby]
Hmm. Hmm. And before we start talking about, uh, uh, theater born between and a little bit more about how that came about, I’m curious about your theater origin stories.
What did, what brought you to theater and what made you decide that it was a thing that you were going to pursue?
[Bryn Kennedy]
John, what brought you to theater?
[John Wamsley]
Um, I was always like, I was always performing in my basement for my parents. That was, I mean, that’s, I guess, I know that sounds so cliche, but that was, that’s the thing. Um, and then it wasn’t actually until probably like high school that I really, um, caught the bug.
Um, the first show I ever did in school was you’re a good man, Charlie Brown. And there was, um, no one in the audience and it was horrifying and embarrassing, but it was like, I didn’t really care cause I just loved what I was doing. And that really propelled me into wanting to study this in university and, and, and, and have this as, as a career.
Um, and because of the program we went in, we were in, um, and because of the opportunities that were there, um, I really was like inspired to start like, you know, writing stuff or start producing my own stuff or directing, just kind of like dipping my toe into different waters. Um, and, and yeah, that’s kind of when you were, you know, you’re doing stuff in high school and things like that.
[Phil Rickaby]
And, and, and then starting to decide what it is that you were going to do with your life. Not ever people do shows in high school and never go on to pursue theater. Right.
What was it that made you decide that this is what you were going to pursue for your life’s work?
[John Wamsley]
Well, I think it really helped that I went to, um, an athletics based high school. Um, it was one of those things where it’s like, well, I definitely don’t want to do that. Um, and there was also like, there was an arts specific high school in the city that I didn’t go to.
So this, the high school that I went to, um, it felt sort of like, um, almost like big fish, small pond with the drama department. And like, if I was really passionate about it, it kind of felt like I was one of maybe three other people that were super passionate about this. Um, which obviously helped.
[Phil Rickaby]
And, and, and, uh, at, at a certain point you made the decision and it was like, this is what I’m going to do. Um, was there, was there, did anybody push back to anybody say, no, it’s a hard life. Did anybody try to convince you otherwise, or was everybody stubborn by nature?
[John Wamsley]
Okay. I mean, I don’t really remember anyone saying like, this is not a good idea for you. Um, but, uh, I think because I knew how difficult this was going to be, um, I was sort of like, yeah, let’s just, let’s give it a try.
Let’s do this. Like, let’s work really hard at this. And, um, yeah.
Okay.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Um, I, yeah, I don’t know. I was just always like a dramatic kid from birth. I think, um, I just, I was, I loved storytelling and talking.
And, um, my mom tells a story of my brother performing in a play in first grade. And I, I would have been three. He would have been six and, uh, they had to keep stopping me from wandering up onto the stage to join him.
And she thinks I was trying to get to my brother. I think I was trying to get to the stage. Um, so, and it just, yeah, they stuck me in classes as a kid, extracurricular classes, and I just never left.
Um, so yeah, so they, I mean, and then I, uh, I just, I loved theater so much. I used to, you know, spend my money on theater tickets instead of when all my friends were writing concert tickets, you know, and, um, and then I went to, so it was sort of an obvious choice for me to continue to pursue that and go to the university program that we did and, um, and continue from there. Yeah.
[Phil Rickaby]
Do you remember what the first show that you saw was?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Um, my parents, luckily I’m, I feel very blessed to come from a family where theater has always been sort of very much of our, uh, a part of our culture. Um, you know, my parents have taken me to play since I was tiny cause both their parents took them to plays. And, um, so I don’t know what the first one was cause we’ve been doing it for so long, but I do have a distinct memory of the first play that I bought tickets to myself with my own money, which was in, when I was in grade four and they brought the tour of Les Miserables to Toronto and I desperately wanted to see it because I was singing Castle on a Cloud at the time.
So I got tickets for my birthday, asked for them with my own money and I invited my dad to take the other ticket and we went to see the show together. And that was a really big deal for me.
[Phil Rickaby]
Do you remember like, do you remember watching the show?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Oh yeah. I remember just like sobbing openly in the audience. Like just being so emotional cause I think it was, I think it was also, I hadn’t seen the story ever.
Like I hadn’t seen, I knew all the songs, but I don’t think I knew quite how emotional it was going to be. And I think I was so invested, um, in the story. My mom used to say that when, when they would take me to shows, she used to say that, that she could see other people in the audience getting distracted and watching me instead of the show.
Cause I would be so invested in it and be like, what’s this kid doing? Cause I’d be so excited about what I was seeing. But, um, so yeah, I just remember being so emotional and probably just, I think I talked about it for like weeks afterwards to all my friends.
I’m sure I annoyed all of them with all this Les Miserables talk.
[John Wamsley]
John, do you remember the first show that you saw? Um, I mean, I saw a lot of like community theater stuff, um, when I was in high school. Um, but I think, I mean like this is also like, maybe it’s kind of embarrassing, but I mean, I think the first like big show I ever saw was, um, like Wizard of Oz at Mirvish, like not that long ago.
It was like right before we, we went into university. Oh wow.
[Phil Rickaby]
Okay.
[John Wamsley]
Right after the whole like over the rainbow reality show. Um, yeah, I was working at the theater at the time.
[Phil Rickaby]
Oh, okay. They saw that show a lot. Yeah.
Um, so what, what, what made you guys want to start a theater company?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Um, well we, we both, uh, as John sort of said, um, we both kind of have explored areas outside of acting and related to, so I sort of found directing in, in university and, um, and John has been doing, you know, writing and creation and movement. And, um, and so we sort of, we just started talking about wanting to create our own work and wanting to have a place to get to take a little bit more agency and ownership over the kinds of things we were doing and not just rely on what auditions were coming up or, you know, what was available to us.
[John Wamsley]
Um, I mean, there was one night where we were just like hanging out, like I had just moved, like Bryn’s been living in Toronto her whole life. And, and, um, I had just moved to the city after university. Um, and we were sitting in like my tiny little apartment watching drag race and eating Thai food and talking over a bottle of wine.
I think we, we were just talking about like how we wanted to create all this work and how there was like these projects that we were really interested in, people that we wanted to work with. Um, and we just kind of got to talking of like, maybe we should just do this.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah. And I think by the end of the night, and then we kind of sort of, we talked through, we had a few projects that we both been working on, um, that were sort of the next, we were like, well, we could do this and this and this, and of which Beneath the Bed was one of them. And, um, and then by the end of the night, by the time I was going home, we just sort of looked at each other and we were like, did we just, did we just make a theater company?
And because we said, you know, when we put it all together, all of these things that we wanted to do, all these ideas we had are projects in the making. We had suddenly like a list of five projects that, that we could do at any time, you know? So if we just put the work in.
[John Wamsley]
And we’ve already done three out of three. Whatever that mystery list is. But yeah, like as Bryn was like going home, I like, by the time she got home, I’d already sent her like logos.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Oh yeah, that’s right.
[John Wamsley]
I was just like, this is like, this is a thing. This is what we’re doing.
[Bryn Kennedy]
John was like, here’s our season art.
[Phil Rickaby]
Was, was self-production something that, that they talked about at theater school for you?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Um, a little, a little bit. I would say our program has, has more of it than, than some other ones perhaps, because there’s more extracurricular opportunities, um, that are sort of not class-based to make work. So, you know, we have some student festivals and, which was how both of us did some directing and at school.
So, uh, and you know, we do, they taught us a little bit about theater tech and things like that. So we had sort of some, a little bit more of a range of skills around that sort of assist with self-creation at least. Um, but the producing side of things, not really, I wouldn’t say that was sort of something that we kind of have to have had to learn on our feet.
[Phil Rickaby]
What’s been the most surprising thing about, uh, uh, producing that you wish you knew before you started to self-produce?
[Bryn Kennedy]
So much.
[John Wamsley]
Um, we, um, I mean, we, the first show we did was, um, uh, selections from, uh, Vitals by Rosamond Small. And we did that in the Paprika Festival. Um, and then after that, we were like, okay, let’s, let’s do the whole thing.
Let’s put it up. And that was like, kind of our first big, like, oh, we’re producing something. Yeah.
And that came with a whole book of challenges that we didn’t even know, like, I didn’t even know the book existed, you know? So, um, yeah, like TAPA memberships and then the whole thing. It’s like, we have to get this?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah. Insurance. What?
[John Wamsley]
Yeah. Just do the show.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah. I think there was way more spreadsheets than either of us could have ever anticipated would be involved in making theater, you know, budgeting, expenses versus revenue. Like it’s all these things.
[John Wamsley]
How to operate a Google drive. Yeah.
[Bryn Kennedy]
It’s such a weird thing to go from being like, oh, I’m, I’m just an artist. I make the creation side and then have to like figure out, okay, no, we need numbers to make that happen.
[Phil Rickaby]
I do think that that’s one of those things that, that, that they should be telling us. Absolutely. Yeah.
Because it’s becoming more and more important to self-produce for sure. And so here everybody gets out of theater school and they’re like spreadsheets. What?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah.
[Phil Rickaby]
You know?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Well, I had no idea of like being a young director in the city, talking to other, other young directors who are doing work. You know, it’s sort of turned into when I hear about what other people are doing when they, when they say that they’re getting to just direct and not also produce the show that they’re working on. To me, I’m like, oh my God, what a luxury.
That’s fantastic. You know, cause I’m, I’m so used to having seen sort of how the independent theater industry works now for two years. I’m, you know, everyone is, is producing the work that they’re, that they’re working on.
You know, it’s, it’s almost, it’s so common now that if you’re acting or directing something or writing something that you’re also producing it. So when you’re just doing that creative component, I’m like, wow, you must have so much free brains.
[John Wamsley]
Yeah. Like I like, you know, like we’re thinking about marketing, but then we’re also worried about getting a rehearsal space, but then we’re like, oh yeah, we have to, you know, pay the actors and then pay ourselves. And it’s you’re, you’re wearing every hat.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah.
[John Wamsley]
And that is something that they don’t really teach you in theater school, at least for when we were, yeah. Like when we went, not so much. Yeah.
I think it’s pretty rare.
[Phil Rickaby]
I do think that, that, that, you know, at least for fringe there’s you know, you don’t have to worry about insurance and, and, you know, your, your, your performance space at least is, is taken care of and you don’t have to, you don’t have to go and find that. I do think it’s often a crash course in publicity for new producers and people who are, who are putting stuff together. Have you guys, having produced some stuff before, what’s your feeling about, about, do you have a plan for, for marketing?
Are you, do you feel like you’re more prepared for that aspects than, than you have been in the past?
[John Wamsley]
Well, I, I did I, I jumped into marketing and communications in university kind of taking on the, the role of, of trying to like revamp the online presence for the for the theater on, on campus. And that evolved into different marketing jobs since graduating. Right now I’m, I’m the communications manager at the Paprika Festival.
[Phil Rickaby]
Okay.
[John Wamsley]
So communications and marketing has become like a, like a strong skill set of mine. Sure. Only because that’s kind of what you have to do now.
The same, same with you.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah. Yeah. It’s sort of funny that we, we actually both have marketing backgrounds cause I now after having, after graduating school I’m working right now as the marketing coordinator for studio 180 theater.
So yeah, so both of us sort of it’s something that we do as our sort of side hustle day job. So we both sort of have a, I would like to think it’s fairly strong understanding of it. So, you know, John runs all our social media and does a, I think personally a fantastic job with that.
It makes all our beautiful graphics. I think for fringe, like the, the most important thing that I’ve seen and I noticed it in how I approach the French, French as well as a, as a patron and also, you know, from the inside of, of marketing some shows last year. I think a strong, a strong recognizable image goes a really long way in French, a really professional, beautiful looking image, whether that’s a photograph or, or a graph or some kind of graphic design.
You know, something that makes you look professional, that helps your show stand out and look interesting and different. And I think that goes a long way.
[Phil Rickaby]
Even I have, I have, while looking at the fringe program, cross stuff off my list because of the image they chose for that.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Oh, absolutely. Yeah.
[Phil Rickaby]
Maybe that makes me, maybe I’ve missed out on some awesome stuff, but I’ve always something like that’s an important image and maybe their poster later got better, but that’s the first thing I saw. And so I’ve always been a bit of an image snob and that if the imagery in the program is no good.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah.
[John Wamsley]
Well, the, the image in the, in the graphic of, of a show is, is intended to be an indication of, of your vision for what the show is. So if you, I mean, I feel the same way in that, like if I’m flipping through a program or if I’m looking at like a poster wall, like they have at the fringe tent, if I’m not seeing something that is like striking or eye-catching or intriguing in any way, I’m, I’m, I’m not necessarily drawn to that show. It’s the same with like online marketing.
If you’re not, if you don’t have like a level of frequency of like, like online publicity, then like you’re sort of, you get lost in the shuffle easily, especially with fringe. Yeah. Because there is so much going on.
It’s, it’s like the Olympics.
[Phil Rickaby]
But it is also, it is also one time of year where there is an audience that is looking for stuff to see. And so you have the potential of doing really well because there are people looking for stuff with more intensity than they often are at other times of the year.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah. And I think that’s something we’re really excited about with being in, in fringe. Cause our, our last production in November at Vitals we sort of had to find our own audience base for that.
And, and, and we’re excited with fringe to be able to branch out beyond just the people that we personally know and hopefully reach people who, who don’t know us or aren’t familiar with our work, but are willing to take a chance on, you know, new artists who the description sounds intriguing, you know, cause that’s the lovely, beautiful thing about fringe is there’s a whole host of people who just go to support new work and try people out and they might find their next new favorite theater artists there.
And that’s really exciting to us to be able to expand our reach that way.
[Phil Rickaby]
I’m always a big fan of audience members who go with the first weekend.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah.
[Phil Rickaby]
Before the reviews have come out, those people, the pioneers of fringe who go out and they’re like willing to see whatever before it’s a solid choice. I love those people because they’re like, they’re the risk takers.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Oh, for sure.
[John Wamsley]
Because it’s a sport to some people, right?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Oh yeah.
[John Wamsley]
I want to see as many shows as I possibly can in two weeks. Yeah.
[Bryn Kennedy]
And we, we appreciate those people who help us like to sell out the early shows so we can start being like sold out as soon as possible.
[Phil Rickaby]
It’s amazing how important that is. The sold out, like, and I’ve tried to tell people who aren’t as familiar with, with, with fringe as, as I am that, that like, if you sell out your first show, it’s more likely that your second show will sell out. Like to be able to say the show is sold out automatically means to other people that this is a show to see.
[Bryn Kennedy]
It’s a good show. Yeah.
[Phil Rickaby]
Go to it. It’s like, how do you, how do you manufacture a sold out show? What’s the, what’s the trick to that?
[Bryn Kennedy]
You know? Yeah. Beg all your family and friends to come early in the run.
[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. There is that.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah.
[Phil Rickaby]
You guys also have the advantage of being at Scouting Court. You are right next to the, the PostScript Fringe Patio. I see it’s like five minutes before our start, start time and just.
[John Wamsley]
Rattle.
[Bryn Kennedy]
We got eight seats left over at the bar. Yeah. That was a specific choice to be in that location.
Yeah. We just, we sort of, we, when we were scouting out for different spots, you know, we looked at a really wide range of possible venues. We looked at art galleries in the area and like we had a, we, we had so many thoughts.
[John Wamsley]
At one point we looked at what the what is it? The, like you look at the stars.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Oh, we wanted to go to, we wanted a planetarium. Yeah. But there’s like, there’s none in Toronto anymore.
They’re all like way up North, like York university or something. So we were like, ah, too far. But, um, cause we were very, very clear that we wanted to give no one an excuse not to see this show.
And with fringe location is so important.
[Phil Rickaby]
Absolutely. Absolutely.
[Bryn Kennedy]
You know, cause if you, when people are making their back-to-back schedules, you want them to be able to be like, Oh, I could see this show before or after this one, this one, and pack it all in.
[Phil Rickaby]
Absolutely. Absolutely. Being able to, to, to, to, to navigate the time between locations is also really super important.
Um, what have, have there been any, any, any challenges in, in, in getting ready for fringe this year that you guys have, or is it just the fact that like, as we record this, like we said, like you said, when we sat down and somebody said it’s six weeks to fringe and you were like, don’t say those numbers. Like, is it just like how quickly it comes up? That’s the, that’s the challenge at this point.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Um, yeah, I, yeah, I think it’s like, uh, I think, uh, time is a resource that gets sort of underestimated in independent, independent theater. You know, that’s that, you know, neither John or I get paid for the work that we’re doing at this point. And we’re both really busy with lots of things, you know, John’s right in the middle of the paprika festival.
Um, so we have a limited number of hours in the day and, um, you know, it’s just the two of us. So if one of us doesn’t do something, it doesn’t, it doesn’t get done. You know, there’s nobody, there’s no team catching the ball or, you know, so I think it’s like the resource of time is, is something that can be difficult with independent producing when you’re balancing, you know, the jobs that make you money and pay your rent and, um, the, the other work that you have to do, the other projects that you’re involved in, because no one’s ever working on like one project at a time.
[John Wamsley]
Right. I think that’s something else too, is, um, something that we’re, I guess, sort of going through right now is, is rehearsal spaces. Um, because, you know, like you, you want to look for a big enough space to, especially for our show to do movement work in.
Um, but that’s also affordable, but the people that are setting the prices for these spaces are also artists. So it’s this sort of like cycle of like, I can’t really afford that. And like, well, I can’t afford otherwise.
[Bryn Kennedy]
So, yeah. Yeah. And space, I mean, just in general rehearsal space, venue space, like all of that in Toronto is, is just getting more and more inaccessible and harder to find.
Um, you know, and that’s why you hear about people getting really resourceful and weird with their rehearsal spaces, which is, you know, we’re trying to do. Um, but it’s, it’s tough. Like that’s such, yeah, that’s one that people underestimate a lot.
That’s a big challenge.
[Phil Rickaby]
It is hard because there aren’t, it’s not like new performance spaces are opening up. And, and rehearsal spaces are much the same. Like there’s some, some are closing down and very few open up again.
So it’s, it’s hard to, hard to do all of that in terms of the resource of time. How do you, how are you navigating, uh, and, and, and working to make sure that you have the time within your busy schedule to do the things that need to be done for fringe.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Um, I think it’s just, I’ve, I’ve been really trying hard. I got very overwhelmed. I feel like in our last show that we did, um, cause it just felt like a never ending to do list that just get, you know, cause with Purdue, you know, with certain aspects of, of doing a show, especially on the creative side, you get to a point where you’re sort of like, this job is done.
Like as a director, you get to a point where you’re like, we, we made the show, this is the show now. And, you know, from, but from a producing standpoint, there’s always more that you can do. You’re never until the show closes and you’re like, I literally can’t do anything anymore.
There’s always something else you technically could be doing, you know? And then even then it’s, it’s doing like all the wrap up.
[John Wamsley]
All the wrap up stuff. Yeah.
[Bryn Kennedy]
So I think for me this time, something that I’m focusing on with time is just, is just taking things one step at a time and just trying to be like, okay, what’s the next thing that has to get done? What’s the next thing that has to get done? And sort of going through it that way.
Cause it can be overwhelming with the just sheer amount of things to do.
[Phil Rickaby]
Yeah. I think just tackling one thing at a time takes a huge amount of discipline. Cause I don’t know with me, as I’m getting closer to fringe and preparing to do my own show, although I have a list of what needs to be done next, my brain, you know, when I’m falling asleep at night, I’m like, oh, there’s that.
Oh, there’s that. I’m all over the place. And it’s hard for me to, to concentrate on just one thing.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Absolutely. I mean, yeah, it’s, it’s not easy. Um, yeah, I don’t know, just trying to stay like focused and calm about it, you know, I don’t know.
[John Wamsley]
Bryn and I’ve, like I said, like I’ve worn many hats over the years, like producing, directing, acting, writing, marketing, everything. And I think after having, I mean, I know it’s still early on for the two of us, but after having a few projects under our belt and kind of getting to understand the lay of the land, we have a lot more trust in ourselves to, um, push forward on a project like this. And on top of that, we have an amazing artistic team this time around.
And it’s, um, I, we have so much faith and so much trust in them that it’s, it’s sort of like, yeah, we’re worried about time. Yeah. Fringe is in six ish weeks.
Um, but we both have the skillset to make things happen. We have an artistic team that has such a strong skillset to make things happen. Um, yeah, I, I think as new producers, it’s, it’s just blind trust.
Who does that, who does that blind trust get placed in yourselves or other people or, um, I think myself, like ourselves, you know, it’s, it’s cause if I’m, if I’m sitting around not trusting anybody else and it’s like, what does that say about me? Right. So if I’ve got trust and confidence in the fact that I have a lot to offer, um, everyone else will just like feel the same.
[Phil Rickaby]
Um, what do you guys, is there, what’s the thing that you’re most looking forward to about presenting this show at Fringe?
[Bryn Kennedy]
Oh my gosh, that’s such a lovely question. I haven’t even thought about it yet. Oh, that’s because we’ve had such a laundry list of things to do.
Um, oh wow. Well, I don’t know. It’s the show has just been, it’s been with us for so long.
We’ve been working to get it out there for years, you know, trying to find the right opportunity, the right fit. I’m just, and I, I was struck at our first read, listening to these, these beautiful actors that we have. Um, and we’re so lucky to work with listening to them, read this beautiful script out loud.
And it just, my heart opened up to these characters again. Um, I haven’t really gotten to be with them in, in a few years since we worked on it last. Cause it’s been so much a focus on applications and deadlines and, you know, to get it out there in the first place that I haven’t really had the brain space for thinking about this show creatively in a long time.
And I, I just, it made me so excited to get to share these beautiful characters with people again. Um, you know, the monster and the child, like they just, they’re funny and they’re quirky and they’re, um, insightful and compassionate. Like they just, they’re these really beautiful, lovely characters that people fall in love with immediately.
And I’m so thrilled and excited to get to share, um, them with audiences. Cause I really, I really think that people will, will connect with them. So I’m, I’m excited for, for that.
[John Wamsley]
I think. Yeah. Um, we’ve pulled together like this really, um, electric team of young artists that, um, you know, I’ve worked with some of them, friends work with some of them.
We’ve admired them from afar. And it’s, uh, it’s just, I’m, I’m so excited to like collaborate with everybody and get in the show and it’s kind of important and sharing that with a bunch of like new audiences.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Yeah.
[John Wamsley]
Guys, thank you so much.
[Phil Rickaby]
It’s been a great conversation. Thank you.
[Bryn Kennedy]
Thank you for having us.
[Phil Rickaby]
This has been a homebody productions production.
