Kris Hagen
Kris Hagen is an actor and writer, known for Imposters (2017), Kim’s Convenience (2016) and Tugg N Chugger (2015). Kris is also the creator of Lighters in the Air, premiering at the Toronto Fringe Festival.
Lighters in the Air
A musician named Leo returns to his former hangout, The Empty, a dive bar where the mic is always open. With the help of old friends, a lost love, and The Empty’s newest off-beat barflies, Leo rediscovers his passion for the music he left behind.
A play about artistic integrity, unfulfilled expectations, nostalgia, romance, and an uncertain future, the show features live performances of original songs. An open mic scene includes different guest musicians and standup comics every night, making each show a unique experience.
Written & Directed by Kris Hagen
Starring Natalia Bushnik, Belinda Corpuz, Cody Crain, Anna Douglas, Raechel Fisher, Kris Hagen, Olaf Sham, Amanda Silcoff and Taylor Whittaker
Monarch Tavern | 12 Clinton St.
Showtimes:
Wednesday, July 4 – 8pm
Thursday, July 5 – 8pm
Friday, July 6 – 6pm
Saturday, July 7 – 7pm
Sunday, July 8 – 7pm
Tuesday, July 10 – 8pm
Wednesday, July 11 – 6pm
Thursday, July 12 – 6pm
Friday, July 13 – 7pm
Saturday, July 14 – 3pm
Twitter: @divebartheatre
Instagram: divebartheatre
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/divebartheatre
Transcript
Welcome to episode 130 of Stageworthy, I’m your host Phil Rickaby. Stageworthy is a podcast about people in Canadian theatre featuring conversations with actors, directors, playwrights, and more. Now before I get to today’s episode, I want to tell you about a little thing I’m putting together.
It’s called Shakespeare Retranslated. Now with Shakespeare Retranslated, I take a play by Shakespeare and I run it through the internet’s most popular translation site and I translate it into another language. Then I take that version and I translate it back to English.
Then I get a group of actors to read the retranslated version, but here’s the thing. They don’t get to see the retranslated version until right before they read it and no one knows what language I translated it into until I announce it right beforehand. I did this last year with Romeo and Juliet and it was hilarious.
This time the play is Macbeth and the retranslation will be read on June 24th at 7 p.m. at the Social Capital Theatre in Toronto. Tickets are on sale now and you can find them by going to retranslated-macbeth.brownpapertickets.com or by searching for Shakespeare Retranslated Macbeth on Facebook. This episode I’m continuing with Toronto Fringe coverage and there are a lot of great conversations coming up that you don’t want to miss.
So one way to make sure that you never miss an episode of Stageworthy is to subscribe to the podcast. Subscribing is easy. All you have to do is go to Apple Podcasts or Google Music and search for Stageworthy and click on the subscribe button.
If you want to drop me a line I would love to hear from you. You can find Stageworthy on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at stageworthypod and you can find the website at stageworthypodcast.com. If you want to drop me a line you can find me on Instagram and Twitter at philrickabee and my website is philrickabee.com. This week my guest is Kris Hagen, the creator of Lighters in the Air which is presented as part of the 2018 edition of the Toronto Fringe Festival. So the show is, we’re just going to jump right in.
Okay. The show is Lighters in the Air? That’s correct, yes. So, and that’s at the Monarch Tavern, right? Yes, yes, yes.
So how is, what is Lighters in the Air? Well, it’s a show. There you go. That’s it.
Is that 55 minutes yet? That’s all we need. No, it’s good, it’s good. I guess we can… Yeah, it’s gonna be sort of a dramatic indie musical, I guess you’d say.
I’ve sort of gone, you know, back and forth between how to exactly classify it because people think musical theater, it’s a certain style, but I’m kind of going for a little different than that. I mean, it started off more with my songs which are sort of, you know, singer-songwriters, some all rock. Yeah.
And then I’m like, well, these songs are sitting here. I’ve written almost 200 songs and I’m focused more on acting, I’m focused more on, you know, writing fiction or drama and it’s like, I want to get these songs out there. I want to be playing music live, but I just, I’m not in that scene, right? So I thought, well, I want to try to work this into something.
So originally, it started off as a TV pilot. Okay. And then it became a feature film script and then I was like, okay, these are things, but these are things that cost a lot of money and take a lot of time and resources.
So can I do something live and just start kicking it off somehow and putting it out there? And I thought, well, the Fringe Festival is an idea. Yeah. Sight Specific’s an idea.
Put it in a bar because a lot of it takes place in a bar. So, you know, then it just started to turn around in my head and then I eventually adapted it into a live musical. Yeah.
What was the original concept for, like, what was it originally about and how did that change as it developed into something live? Originally, and I mean, I still might want to do something with the TV pilot style or the feature film script, but originally it just, if I can remember that far back, a few years ago when I first was writing it and I was just like, it would be kind of cool to have a TV show, like, I guess like Glee is a musical type TV show, but this would be like sort of like just the indie music scene, like the Toronto music scene, dive bars and that kind of thing, buskers, you know, that sort of world. Try to capture it fairly authentically so it doesn’t have that extra, that the whimsical nature of musical theater. And then so just like each episode would have an original song, like a full song, and then maybe some taste of other songs.
So you have a 23-minute show, you have like one full original song that takes place in the bar and then the rest of it is just like the world around it. So, yeah, just sort of, you know, I’m kind of moving puzzle pieces in my mind of how to adapt it. Okay, now I have to to make it a feature, I have to add this, I have to do that, and then you’re doing your whole structure.
Yeah. And then so like you lose little pieces and then you add bits and then… Actually, when I turned it into the live show, it just, I knew I had to do it. I had the feature film.
I kind of polished up the feature film for a while and then that kind of sat there for maybe a month or so and I was like, I know I have to do this because, you know, I have a show coming out. Yeah. But I didn’t really dig into it and it just kind of sat in the back of my head and then a few little ideas for scenes came up, new scenes, how I would adapt things and then it was probably about a month or two and like maybe it was like February or something, one day, just an hour, like everything fell into place.
Oh, wow. Every scene, I knew exactly how the whole live show would go and I was like, okay, now I just have to actually write it. I have this whole outline now, some of the stuff will be adapted, some moves and it’s just, yeah, it’s just really just moving stuff around and kind of letting your brain do all this work and then figuring out what works for me, like writing.
I’ve done it for quite a while and it’s all editing. It’s just like always trying to make it better. Yeah.
Anytime I get input, you know, when I was like younger in university and creative writing program and someone would give me, you know, some feedback or something, you kind of take it with a little sting. Yeah. And then, but over the years, like usually there’s some truth to it and usually, you know, if you take a step back, you can make something better.
So, I always try to continue to edit and usually end up with something better in the long run. I think it’s interesting because I think that the way that a lot of us react to criticism when we’re young or starting out is, well, it’s immature. It is a bit of a stain without, you know, without really trying to figure out like, okay, so why is that criticism being given, you know, digging in and figuring out like.
Yeah. And it’s very complicated too because I think that we’re passionate about it or there’s something authentic about what we wrote. So, it does feel like, you know, you do need to step back from that personal element to create a piece of art that is more accessible.
Yeah. You know, there’s often a rebellion against that when you’re younger because it’s like, well, no, this is closest to who I am at that time. And then as that changes, I think then you’re like, okay, now that I’ve changed myself, now I can see that that person, from a more objective standpoint, you know, it just wasn’t as good, you know, like that whole thing is subjective, but there’s some level of objectivity to the quality of work, I think.
So, I think it’s fair to have that reaction, but, and not just to change just because someone says to, but I think as you develop further, you’ve got more perspective, more experience, you can take in more information and process it as it needs to, you know, like you don’t always take everything everyone says, but. No, but it’s not a necessarily like change just because they said to, they said something, there’s a reason for it. And then you find a way to make it work.
Exactly. You can’t just make every change that everybody suggests. No, of course you can’t.
Nothing will be yours and nothing whatever. And sometimes you’ll get two people saying exactly opposite things, so. Exactly, exactly.
What are you going to do with that? So, were you drawn to the Monarch Tavern for a particular reason, or what was it about that venue that made you want to work there? I mean, I’ve been there a few times, and just something about when you walk into the place, it has a certain atmosphere to it, and I felt like the layout was something that was really, really positive. There’s a good enough space there, and I know they had done shows with the Fringe before. Unfortunately, I have not actually seen any of the Fringe shows that have been put on there, but, you know, I thought of all the venues that come to mind, and that one sort of stuck with me.
And it looks like a lot of bars are kind of smaller, and even it’s kind of set in a dive bar, the show, called The Empty, like a fictional dive bar in Toronto. But in terms of having an audience, and having a venue that’s been through the Fringe before, and knows what to expect, I think is hugely helpful, because if you go to a brand new place, and it’s just like, well, we need this, this is that, we weren’t expecting you to do this, and so, I mean, that was the first place that came to mind, and fortunately, they were on board with letting us put it on there, so. Yeah, it is certainly helpful to have a bar that has done Fringe before.
I was thinking about doing a site-specific at one point, and I approached one bar, and they were like, oh no, we did a Fringe show once, and, you know, we’re a restaurant, people were coming in, and, well, probably shouldn’t have done a Fringe show there, you can’t control who’s coming in. Yeah, I mean, good for them for trying it, but, yeah, it’s like, it’s better, it would suit some places better than others, for sure. Exactly, exactly.
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I’ve seen a few things at the Monarch Tavern, it seems like actually a really versatile place, in terms of, at least what they’ll let people do with it. Yeah, I mean, they seem pretty open, like, they just, they are on board with, you know, like, independent art in the city, like, just from what I’ve, when I’ve talked to them, they, you know, they have the Canadian Music Week stuff there, and, yeah, just for, it’s like an older bar, and I think they just, that spirit, I think, is kind of alive there, and they want to keep that going, like, I don’t think it’s a big time where they make a ton of money, so, you know, we appreciate that, and we work with them as best as we can, but the thing is, too, the downstairs is closed, like, most of the day, it’s all, everything’s upstairs, until maybe, you know, shows at 8 p.m. or something, so that, we’ll be able to get in to do rehearsals, and so it’s very beneficial for artists. Yeah, no, it’s really good, it’s really good.
You mentioned creative writing and stuff, and I noticed from your website that you, you know, you’ve got, you’ve got a lot going on, you’ve got some voiceover, you’ve got music, and you’ve got, you know, you’ve got some film work. When did you start realizing that performing was a thing you wanted to do? Well, I mean, honestly, I think it was quite young. I still remember the first lines of the first acting class I took.
I had a monologue, I was like, I wish I was a hot fudge sundae. I don’t remember the rest of it, but it’s like, I kind of got away from that a bit, and just not knowing, kind of, the transition from, you know, like, middle of high school, and like, I was getting excellent grades in math and science and everything else, and you kind of just get lost in what you actually want to do. You’re so young, like, they kind of push you to figure out what you want to do at that age, and it’s like, well, you can take, like, even five years, and not, like, go into debt at school, and, you know, yeah, there’s something to be said for keeping momentum going, and not, like, dropping off productivity, but at the same time, I just wasn’t really sure, but I kept going, and I did figure out maybe second year university, I was like, oh, I want to do creative writing, you know, because I had done, you know, I’ve always written, too, but I kind of got away from the performance, like, I wasn’t taking drama in my last couple years of high school, and so I got away from that, but then I started coming back to it, and then it’s just kind of gone in and out, and I’ve always taken acting classes, but just not pushing it, not pushing it, just the inertia, I think, of not getting out there, and meeting people, and performing, and, you know, just being willing to fail in front of strangers.
If you get out of that habit, then it becomes harder and harder to kind of get back into it, so I could sit at home and write prose, and edit a paragraph for a day, and, you know, I’m still working on my novel, you know, I’ve been working on that forever, but there was a point where I was just like, I need to be performing, like, I need to be with people, I need to be doing something collaborative, and using the writing to help that sort of thing, but not writing in just itself, because I just felt like, you know, maybe I’ll do that another time in the future, but the time is now if I do want to perform to, like, get after it, you know? Yeah, yeah. What did you study at university or college? Well, I started pretty generally, and then I just, my double major was English and Creative Writing, and I was definitely much more interested in the creative writing aspect, mainly because there’s a certain point where I was like, I don’t, I’ve read half of Shakespeare, I don’t really want to read the other half, and just the essays, like, I’m just not an essay person, I can talk about stuff, or analyze it, I analyze things all the time, but just having to put it into writing, and I don’t know, it’s just the academic side is just not really my thing. Yeah, there’s a certain format to an essay that isn’t particularly conducive to creative thinking.
Yeah, and I would always slip some in there, but I was much more drawn to the creative side, so that was my eventual double major, and the last, like, taking summer classes to finish those last, like, three English classes was like, I do not want to be writing essays in the summer. It’s craziness, but I got through it. Were you always doing music? Well, that’s another one, like, that’s one of those things where I’ve super been drawn to it.
It’s like that typical actor, you know, thing where it’s like, I want to be a rock star. Yeah, yeah. But, so I’ve always dabbled with it, I’ve always, like, written parts of songs, and that was kind of the same thing, like, part of you just, you do it long enough, and part of you just says, look, if you’re going to do this, like, take it seriously.
Yeah. And I’m like, okay, you have 8,000 parts of songs, have you ever finished a song? Have you ever finished writing a song? I was like, now what you’re going to do is you’re going to finish writing a song. It doesn’t have to be good, it just has to be complete.
Right. So then you got your verse, your chorus, your verse, your chorus, your verse, whatever, bridge, done. Yeah.
You can always come back, rewrite the chorus, rewrite the bridge, rewrite verses, rewrite lyrics, you can always come back to it. So then I just started finishing songs. Yeah.
Before I knew it, I was like, you know, I got 20, 30, now I don’t know, probably 190 songs, because I just got in the habit of finishing things. Like, it’s the same with anything, like, it’s hard, but you have to, you know, if you’re something great, and then it gets into post, I’ve got a short film story in post right now, and it’s just like, that takes time, but you got to push it through, because you’ve got to complete things. Well, finishing is actually really, it’s actually really hard.
I know. I mean, just from a writing point of view, or creating something. I don’t know about you, but my inner critic likes to, or my brain enjoys throwing better ideas, better, quote unquote, better ideas at me, once the thing I’m working on stops being fun.
Right. You know, when you really have to buckle down and start working. Yeah.
And that’s when I started getting the, you know, new ideas. And for a while, when I was a lot younger, I used to chase those ideas, and I would put this aside, this wasn’t, no, this idea is better. It was new.
Yeah. Not better. And so there were a lot of things unfinished, because finishing takes effort, and starting is really fun.
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I still do that to some degree, but I think there’s just something to be said to having the discipline. You need discipline with art, I think, to have it sustained over a long period of time.
I mean, you can have flash as a brilliance, but to have a career with it, or to develop to a certain level, I think you do need some discipline. And like I said, it doesn’t need to be finished. Like, my novel is not finished, but it’s complete.
Like, the whole novel’s there. So then you just have a better idea of what you’re working with, and you can go back to it and say like, okay, you know, whereas if you stop halfway through, then you’re just like, it’s just the unknown of like, how much longer is it going to be? Or where is it going to go? But when you have something complete, you can more easily edit it, you can more easily work it. And the same thing if I’m working with musicians, and you know, I’ve jammed with musicians, and it’s just like, I bring full songs complete, because if you go and you just jam, you just end up with nothing.
Sure, it was fun. Yeah. But time goes by, and you’re just noodling, and you’re not coming up with anything concrete.
What are we going to record in three months? Yes. I don’t know. We got like this part and that part.
And yeah, it’s similar to a lot of different art forms. I find actors can be the same way. It’s just, you know, acting is something you can do without practicing, right? You can’t play guitar well, unless you practice, you can’t dance, unless you practice, you know, whereas acting, you can do it.
So it’s less likely for actors to actually practice it, because technically, you can do it, you just have to say the lines. Yeah. But to get good at it, you should have some discipline practice as well.
Yeah. In some form or other. I mean, it’s a muscle, like creativity is a muscle, and you have to work it.
Otherwise, it gets, you know, stiff. And you know, an actor who hasn’t worked for a while or hasn’t practiced for a while, it will take them some time to work that muscle again. Whereas an actor who’s been practicing, will be able to jump into it a little more easily.
And they don’t even notice because you’ve just been doing it. It’s just like, you just gotten better without even noticing a lot of times. Yeah, I do find the same thing with writing.
It’s you get like, once you start writing, you write more. And once you so and I think that’s that’s the way it is with a lot of creativity. Once you keep doing it, it become you become a little more prolific.
Yeah. And well, I think your subconscious mind like provides a lot of answers based on that experience and that muscle being worked. If you’re editing something, where do those lines come from the new line? It’s like, well, this line is not working.
Where does that new line come from? You’re not necessarily consciously, you know, it’s part partly conscious, partly subconscious, where those, those quick responses and those quick changes that kind of happens so quickly, because you’re, because it’s that muscle, it just kind of, you know, if you’re at the gym, the muscle knows what to do with doing it, you know, because you’ve done it enough. Similar thing. Absolutely.
In terms of lighters in the air, is this, is this your, this is, is this isn’t your first play that you’ve put on? Or is this like your first theater thing that you’ve produced? In terms of production? Okay. You know, I’ve done things before, but in terms of actually I’ve written plays in university and stuff, but actually producing anything, I did Second City Conservatory. So as part of an ensemble that we did our show there, and then we took it to Windsor Fringe and we performed it there.
And then I did a duo sketch comedy thing with Scott Rawson, which we had, we have a couple hoser characters called Tug and Chugger. And we put on a little sketch comedy thing at the Montreal Fringe, but that was like 2012. Okay.
And then just, so in terms of actually a play, producing it, putting on, and I’m directing it too, which is, you know, a lot. But yeah, so it’s pretty much my first thing. But I feel like a lot of my other experience and everything is going to help, you know, it come to a certain level.
Yeah. So it doesn’t really feel like that to me. I mean, I guess technically it is, but for some reason I feel fairly confident in the process.
No, it makes, that makes a lot of sense because with the Second City experience and you’ve done some Fringe stuff, especially, I feel like if you’ve traveled with a show, even if it’s just to another city, that’s a different Fringe experience than if you just do a Fringe at home and you learn so much about doing a show when you have to go someplace else. Exactly. And I mean, I did a show in Australia, I mean, part of casts of a play and just learning how people work together, the teamwork that’s necessary, working on films, you know, I’ve helped out on films as sound person, set deck, writing, directing, producing, like every different role.
So you get a good sense of how everything needs to work together to make it work. So we’ll see. It’s, well, you know, it’s supposed to be fun.
So I think it’s going to be a lot of fun. I mean, there’s certainly, a site specific gives you a lot of freedom in terms of what you can do in a space because you don’t have to treat it like you would if you were just in a theater. It doesn’t, people don’t have to sit in one spot and look at another.
You can put things anywhere. Yeah. So you’re not like slave to certain expectations of years of history and yeah.
And you can be a little more creative and it does feel a bit more like a film too, because you’re, you’re placing it in the real situation. So it’s kind of like, as we were in there working on it, I’m like, I’m kind of blocking it, like, you know, like we were doing a film. And then we’ll have, you know, live music, you know, some rock stuff, some singers, songwriters.
So that being in that venue, that music venue, I think will give that the authenticity too. And yeah, I’m really optimistic that it’s going to be a really good show. When you’re casting the show, are you looking for singers who act, actors who sing? Are you looking for people who are more musician? What are you looking for? What were you looking for in your cast? Well, my goal was to find singers, musicians who perform as musicians.
I feel like Toronto is so full of talent. It’s just kind of getting the word out about your show enough that you find people who do both very well. And there are people who do both very well, as well as, you know, a lot of musical theater types, which is maybe not really the style we’re going for.
But there are musical theater graduates, you know, that I saw that, you know, they do the musical theater, but they also sing, you know, other styles very, very well. So I mean, the goal was to find great, I’m going for more of a natural style with it. So like good natural actors and a bit of film style acting.
And, you know, mixed with, you know, has to be theatrical, because it has to be, you know, there’s, we’re going to be live and all that. So really, I’m just looking for someone who could do it all. But definitely that true live performance, people who’ve played open mics, people who, like one of my performers is Taylor Whitaker.
He was in the band UK, and they played a ton, and they kind of, I guess they’ve stopped playing as UK, but he still does his own music. So he’s played like, you know, all the bars in Toronto. And yeah, he’s also an actor.
And he’s in on TV, he’s in Crawford, which is going to be on CBC in mid June. And so just somebody like that, who’s got that acting background, but also has been out there playing music. So someone like that was a great find for me.
I actually knew him before. So it was great that he came on board. Nice.
Yeah. Yeah. I want to actually jump back to the Second City Conservatory, because that just sort of was thrown out there.
But I’m curious about what took you, what drew you to Second City, what drew you to the improv world, when you were mostly writing, and maybe doing some music before? Yeah, it’s weird. Like, I do have a bit of that kind of every Jack of all trades thing. Like, I’ve always been into comedy, too.
I lived in Australia for like, a little over a year. And then I, because I lived in Victoria, and then I was kind of living back at home in Kelowna, where my parents were. And I was just like, I got to go out and like, dudes, I got to push more.
And so I lived in Australia. And then I got a visa to live in the UK. I was like, you know, but I kind of I really, if I keep moving around, I’m not really gonna get going with this art stuff, you know, artistic pursuit.
So I was like, I will try the Second City. Like I knew about it. You know, all the, you know, Saturday Night Live and all the comedy stuff.
I’ve always been into comedy. So I was like, I’ll try it and kind of see how it goes. If it’s if I’m not feeling it, you know, and I’ll jump over to London.
Yeah. But I just kind of got caught up in it. And I ended up staying in that visa elapsed.
So it’s interesting, you were saying about how you know, like traveling was exciting. But if you’re going to make something happen, you have to spend time in a place. Oh, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, it takes so much time. And that’s the issue with being a jack of all trades type is like, I want to be in the music scene, but I don’t know people.
And it takes longer than just even doing a few shows or meeting a few people like it takes. I’ve gotten started to make more progress film and television. And that’s taken years of non union and workshops and meeting different people and making my own stuff make connecting other people to work together and just and then getting one agent getting another agent and just keeping at it.
And so it does take time. And that’s even just one discipline within our whereas if you’re looking at all of it, then it’s even more. But yeah, if you’re moving around, then it’s like, Oh, now I have to get a new agent.
Now I have to meet new people again. And yeah. Yeah.
So it makes it difficult. I think it’s pretty important to be in a place and really just immerse yourself in the idea and just go for it. You know, I think a lot of people take that kind of thing for granted.
I mean, most people are not moving around, but they don’t consider how much work it takes to get things going. You know, and the fantasies that we see in the media about what the artistic life is, don’t really prepare you for that. And I think there are a few schools that really prepare you for how much work it actually is to make things happen.
Well, especially because a lot of that work is by necessity, kind of on the side, because like you have to work your day jobs, and you have your other life and you have to sleep and you know, all these things that come up, you know, you have to deal with all those things. And then you have to do this as well. And I mean, I grew up in like a really small town in British Columbia called Rossland.
And there’s maybe 3500 people there. So it’s so small that you know, even just thinking of stuff happening somewhere else is like this other world. So even from there, it’s even more difficult because you have to like move somewhere and you have to believe that you can become part of this huge thing.
Yeah. And so it takes a lot of effort for people in that situation. And then once you start to see things happen, from that perspective, I think then you start to realize what it takes, because you’ve been somewhere where it’s not happening at all.
And then you start to see success, or progress, and then you start to realize that it’s possible. And then you don’t take it for granted as much because you’ve seen the change already. Yeah, you’ve seen results.
And that can kind of motivate you, I think. And I’ve just never been the type of person who ever can see myself stopping doing this type of thing. Like, I don’t, I don’t, I don’t think I’m capable of it.
Like there’s something wrong with me, you know, which is fine. But I wish I could. But no, I just don’t.
There’s a point where I think you just kind of give in to who you are, you know, and you’re like, this is who I am. I think you have to. Yeah, I think you have to.
When you were growing up in this small town of Rossland, were you exposed to, did you get to see any theater? Did you see like, what were the arts that you were exposed to as a child? Yeah, there was a there was a small, like artistic community there. And we had a great drama teacher. And there’s there’s certainly a strong belief in the importance of it.
And in like, grade eight and stuff, we would go on these drama trips to Vancouver, and we’d go see. And it was quite formative, because you catch the bug, like, we went and watched improv and watched. I can’t remember the name of some of these things now.
But, you know, just stuff on Granville Island or whatever it was. And we would go to see plays and improv and sketch comedy or whatever it was. And just being in a big city and seeing all that, like, it became very seductive, I guess, in terms of the lifestyle and a scene that was apart from this beautiful small town.
But it certainly sticks with you, I think, on some level. Was it when I mean, you talked about when you were thinking about going to university that you were not thinking about, about, say, like theater or anything like that at the time? Was that just something that was not encouraged? Or was that? Um, because I know for me, when when I was in high school, and my guidance teacher, or the guidance counselor was like, All right, so you know, you have to start thinking about college, university, what is it that you want to do? And I said, I want to do theater. And they went.
Then they didn’t know what to suggest from there. Was there anything like that? No, I mean, nothing like that. I mean, I can’t honestly say if I brought it up.
I know my drama teacher was was very encouraging of doing that type of thing. In a general sense, like I was, I just didn’t really know you’re in a such a small place. And you don’t know what these careers are, these jobs are, like I had, you know, like, the highest marks in my class, like in everything, right? So it was like, you know, more likely, they’re going to push you towards, you know, science and math, and you could you could be a doctor, you could be this, you could do that.
Those are just more obvious things. And the path to any artistic success is so vague, and you’re just kind of guessing where what you have to do to even get there. So I wouldn’t say it was discouraged, but it just wasn’t really put on the radar in such a way that was encouraged.
Yeah, in any real way, I guess. It’s hard to know. I mean, did any of those academic things really appeal to you, aside from the creative writing aspect? They do appeal to they still appeal to me, like, I’m interested in in everything, like, I like a little bit of everything.
But in terms of, for me, it’s just to pursue one significantly. And kind of leaving the other behind, like, I’m more likely to leave that behind. I couldn’t see myself leaving behind writing and acting and music.
So in terms of a career, or like a life pursuit, you know, like, if I’m if I feel that maybe I’ve only got one of these lives, you know, what will I want to have done? Maybe not, you know, like, you know, science type stuff, or but I love that stuff, you know, like, finding out about the new technologies and like cures for things. I think it’s all amazing. And I’m so interested in it all.
But it’s like, I’ll be interested for a bit, and then I’m on to the next thing. And I couldn’t see myself like zoning in on one career path, because that can get pretty specific to it. You start looking at medicine, or if you want to actually make real progress and stuff, then it can get pretty specific, you know, like specializing in certain gene therapies or whatever, it’s like very specific.
So for me, I’m just too interested in too many things to zone in. Well, it’s interesting, because with a life in the arts, you sort of have the freedom to, you know, to write, to make a play, to write some music, to do improv, to do all the things that that sort of enrich each other. Because you start to have like, yes, you are a jack of all trades, but like, you’re the guy who knows how to make music and how to put a show together and how to write and things like that, which can make you valuable in terms of like, when you’re making your own stuff, you can do pretty much anything.
Yeah, I mean, it takes time to develop all those things. Nobody develops those things overnight. But having those interests, I think, and for a while, it was a bit of a, more of an issue, because I’m like, well, I kind of want to do both of these things.
It’s like, well, you need to focus on something and make some progress at that and then bring the other end, but you kind of get torn and you kind of like, don’t finish things, don’t finish projects. So, you know, there’s something to be said for kind of picking one for a while, maybe, and like, you know, writing an album or playing, getting your band to a certain level and then going into film and then bringing in your music into the film. But yeah, like developing all those streams, I think nowadays, when people are making their own work, it can be really valuable because, you know, and then I edit my own stuff and, you know, edit music and like, just learning technical stuff’s not my favorite, but by necessity, you kind of learn how to do it all.
And just being able to do a bit of everything, I think, yeah, it kind of helps a lot. Yeah. When you were just like, when you would focus on a thing for a while, how focused did you get on it? Like, when you were deciding that you were going to learn how to make music, was it like, was it guitar? Did you study music theory? What did you do to learn that? Well, no, I’m not a great musician.
Like, I’m a decent guitar player. I mean, I got okay for a bit, but for me, it’s the story, it’s the lyrics, it’s the writing, it’s the, that’s really my core strength is the, is the writing, like the words. So for me, it was just like, that was the core was just writing the novel.
I spent a lot of time just focused on that. Like I would spend some days editing. I would edit a whole day of my life.
I’d spent editing like one paragraph, you know, like I was like, wow, a whole day, but I get so particular, like with prose, which is probably why I like to avoid it because I can’t, I can’t just sit by myself in front of a computer and just be that perfectionist. Whereas I can be a little, I could feel like I can be a little looser with, with other things. And then just started writing songs.
I got really focused on that for a while. And yeah, I don’t, I don’t know. That’s the thing.
I never really got so focused, but, and the singing was another thing. Like I struggled with that for a long time and I was like, okay, I can sort of sing a chest voice, you know, I’ve got a, you know, a natural voice, but learning how to sing, you know, up the register and stuff took a while. Finally, I kind of had a breakthrough one day, started getting some lessons to, to develop that.
So finally I got a little bit better. And then just putting it all together and just performing it passionately and like having that, the purpose of art, whatever it is to educate, entertain, or to share feelings, you know, like that people have. So just trying to, to really be present with whatever I’m actually writing.
And, you know, it’s probably not perfect. I mean, you know, my singing or anything else, but if you really believe it and it’s really, you know, you’re connecting with people and feeling it, it’s, it’s probably okay. You know, the funny thing is I kind of really love imperfection.
I love just not like when something is like, when you’re like, oh, that’s just wrong, but like when there’s a little bit of imperfection, make something seem, I don’t know, more natural, more real so that it’s, you know, it’s not too polished. And that’s a good lesson for actors who are auditioning because that’s a whole other thing. Like we ended up getting probably almost 175 submissions for the show, which to me is pretty crazy for like a unpaid-ish fringe show.
But we, so I could only bring in so many people, but you learn a lot from casting sessions. Like if anyone, if anyone, you know, rather than taking an acting class, if your friend needs a reader for something, do that because that’s an acting class that you don’t even have to pay for because so many people do so many great things and you just learn that it’s not necessarily a perfection that they’re looking for. It’s just, they don’t even necessarily know, or it’s just a feel or it’s a fit or, you know, like I cast people who stumbled over the lines.
It didn’t, it didn’t matter, you know, because it’s all about so many other things, you know. I learned so much sitting in on auditions, just watching people come into the room, like watching people kind of lose the role almost immediately when they walk into the room because they’re like a mess or whatever, coming in with this like really frenetic energy. And also just the way that people talk to the people behind the table, you can learn just watching auditions is such a valuable thing.
Yeah. And I really just feel like I’m not auditioning, like I haven’t, I don’t know what other people auditioning things think, but I think just that being human is so important and connecting with, because you’re looking for actors who connect with their scene partners. You connect.
So you’re also looking for them who connect with you and who you’re going to, you’re going to want to work with. And I don’t, I don’t think you ever need to go in and be perfect. Like they just want someone who’s, you know, comfortable and confident enough of themselves to just be who they are and connect with the person.
And you’re not, you’re not trying to win the role. You’re, you’re, you’re trying to offer what you have for it and it’s their role, like it’s their show. And you know, I’ll, I’ll audition for something and I’ll screw up and I’ll be like, ah, screw that up.
But you weren’t going to get it anyway. Like, it’s like, it doesn’t matter, you know, your, how great your audition was, you know, those things are not usually going to make a difference because it’s going to come down to, to are you the right fit for it? So I feel like going in with you, trying to get the role, it’s like, you’re trying to get something from the person that’s across the table, but really you’re just trying to work with them and see, okay, well, you know, this is the character, this is what I can do for the character. Does it work for you? If it works, great.
If not, I’m on to the next thing. Cause if you come in with that thing, like, oh, I didn’t get that, you know, it’s like, well, what, why were you trying to get it? Like, cause it’s not, if you’re not right for it, then you’re not serving the story. You’re not serving the audience.
Like let it just let it be, you know, like let it be what it is. And you’ll find something that is right for you. If you have that attitude of just coming in and, and obviously prepare, be professional, be, be pleasant, connect with your scene partner.
I think those are pretty much, pretty much all you need to do. And the rest, some days you’re going to get there late cause a straight car and you’re going to fumble your lines and they’re going to be rushed cause they were, you know, they’re whatever, all sorts of things happen. You just deal with it the best you can adapt.
If they give you direction, take the direction and really listen to the direction because usually if they’re giving you direction, if it’s the people who are casting it, like not just the casting director, but they want to see something specific from you for this role that they’re asking for that direction for a reason, I think. Yeah. Cause they need to see if you can do that as well for what they’re looking for.
Well, I mean, it’s an interesting thing because if they’re, they’re not going to, they’re not going to give direction to somebody they’re not interested in. So when they give you direction, it’s not because they are being dicks. Like some people get really like upset that they’re being like direction during an interview, but it’s like, no, they want to see what you can do with the direction that they’re giving you.
Yeah. And I mean, uh, I had so many great people come in honestly. And I was like, you’re going to hate me, but do you want to do a cold read? Cause this is another side of this character that I didn’t have in the sides that I realized that I might need to see from some people.
And everybody was like really great about, about doing that. And I think it’s kind of gotten around that about how important it is to kind of, you know, work with, with, with people and how it’s just a process of, you know, it’s an incomplete thing just to have the sides and stuff. And, and, and it’s a, it’s an imperfect way of bringing people into a project auditioning, but just realizing that everyone’s trying to work together to make something and people have stuff riding on it.
Like people put millions of dollars into these shows and movies. They can’t just cast you because you want to be in it. And like I put years into writing this and I’ve put years into the music and I’m going to be working with these people for a month and a half.
And, and I, I mean, I want to do the best show I can. So, and I want, you know, and I can only cast so many people. So there’s so many great people that I couldn’t cast.
I was like, you just, I just don’t have a place for them in this show. I wish I could. And I, and I hope they realize that they were really great, but it’s, it’s tricky.
I always found that one of the most disappointing things about, about, about being like making those choices. Cause I, you know, I, there were so many great people in here. You do legitimately wish that you could give them something, you know, but there’s, there are only so many roles in each show.
And I, I take it very seriously. Like I watched, I watched cause I had the second audition day. I had so many people.
I filled it up as much as I could to see as many people as I could. I did. I stopped to go to the bathroom twice.
Didn’t finish my sub in eight hours. And, and, and then I went home and I just watched tapes, even the first night, the next day I spent all day thinking about it. I watched tapes for hours, like just trying to decide how, how things fit together, who fit.
And then, you know, it’s just like, at some point you have to make a decision, you know? So, but did you make those decisions just yourself or did you bounce ideas off people? Was there, was there anybody else at the table with you? Well, because I’m, because I’m, I did have people in the room with me and then, uh, because I’m directing myself and, and, uh, I’ve done that before and it’s pretty tricky, especially with film, because you have to get those takes on the day. So theater, hopefully I have a bit more time, but I’ve got two assistant directors who are helping me with this. And, uh, one of them, I was like, okay, I’ve cast it in my head.
Now you come and you cast it and then you try to talk me out of my choices. So he came and he, you know, picked who he picked and then we kind of compared and talked it through. So that helped.
And then even after that point, there was still two days where I was still, you know, and there was one character I was going to have, or two characters. So I was going to have one actor play. And then I thought, well, the show’s more natural than that.
Like, and I have so many talented people, so I should probably just cast two people. And then, so I had to start rethinking things based on that. But, uh, it, it definitely helps to get other perspectives.
And our publicist, Victoria LaBerge is, uh, I’ve, uh, she was my roommate for years and she knows me very well and I’ll be thinking, thinking, and I know something, and then she’ll come in and she just like, we’ll say something. I’m like, yes, that’s exactly what I need to hear. Because, you know, I know that, but I just, I’m so caught up in it that I needed that clarity.
And she provides a lot of clarity. She’s, uh, she’s great. When you were casting it, you had the cast in your head and your assistant director, when they were presenting this, did they suggest anybody that you had already had in your mind? Yeah.
Some of them, some of them were probably easier choice. And maybe we had talked a bit before, uh, and we kind of knew some of the choices, but, uh, uh, there were a few other ones and it was useful, but, uh, I pretty much talked him into my choice. Cause I’d spent more time with it.
I know the story better. Uh, I’ve, you know, I kind of have this vision for it and that’s why I wanted to direct too, because I’d like, I’ve spent so much time on, I was like, do I really want to invite another vision at this point? Whereas if I can bring in other people with other perspectives, but not have them leading the whole thing. Cause, uh, I don’t know.
I just, I’m not super, um, uh, what’s the word precious about my stuff, but I do have a little bit of a sense of, okay, I can’t just give that away. And if I had someone in mind, maybe I would have, but I didn’t either. So I was like, I’m not going to go looking for someone.
I’ll just do it. See what happens. Yeah.
Um, what’s, what’s your performance schedule like for the show? I mean, cause with the site specific, you can make your own schedule and you could overdo it. You could do like every night or you could do like a few nights. What are you guys, what are you guys doing? Well, I guess we’ve almost overdone it then.
We’re doing 11 shows. Uh, we do have one day off, one night off. Um, so I don’t know.
I think, I think we, I think we’ll be all right with 11. I think like a lot of plays are, some people do two shows in a day and I’ve done that before and that’s more challenging to do. It is a bit challenging with singing and acting.
Hopefully we’re all fingers crossed and keep our voices. But, uh, that just comes with territory. I mean, you have musicals, you know, in town and those, they do tons of shows.
So, you know, if you were, if you’re going to be a professional performer, you’ve got to be able to deal with that pretty hectic schedule. To deal with your voice. Yeah.
Yeah. Um, I always, I think it’s good. I mean, it is good that you have a day off because I know like Fringe, Fringe is not a normal performance schedule.
Right. There’s always so much more that’s, that, that’s necessary in, in Fringe. The, like promoting the show and all that stuff is such a big deal.
And if you have a large cast, then if you can get everybody going out and doing stuff, then that kind of helps too. But it’s a lot of work to do a Fringe show. Oh yeah.
And having at least one day off. Yeah. We got our day off in the middle of the run too.
So I think we have five shows and a day off and then six shows and the cast is, um, nine of us. And then we have a couple of assistant directors. Victoria is our publicist.
Laura Moniz is our stage manager and she’s been doing Toronto Fringe for like 12 years. So having her perspective, yeah. And, uh, and then we’re also going to get like, uh, kind of a house band to play on some of the, some of the songs as well.
So it’s going to be kind of a backup or like for the house band. Well, okay. So basically the show kind of, the story of the show goes from the present time where it kind of, the dive bar is kind of past its glory days.
And then, uh, we do go back into the past. So in the past, things were a little more lively and, and that’s when the, like the rock music was being played. And so on those songs we’ll have, uh, you know, a drummer and a guitar player and just to make it a little more of an actual, you know, live music show.
Nice. Yeah. Nice.
Kris, where can we find you on the internet? Uh, well, my website is, you don’t even need a www, believe it or not. K-R-I-S-H-A-G-E-N.com. That’s Krishagan.com. Kris with a K. Uh, I mean, I’m on Facebook. I am DB.
I’ve got some credits on there. Kris Hagan, Google Kris Hagan. Um, but my website is kind of the best because it’s kind of the hub and you can find other stuff from there.
It kind of has a bit of, of all, all of my pursuits on there. Uh, don’t have about the show on there yet, but so you can find information on the show at Instagram, Twitter, or at the moment, mostly Facebook at dive bar theater. Um, so that’s consistent with all those, those forms.
Um, so that’s where I would go for now. I would go there cause that’s what, that’s what’s happening now. I’m dead focused on this show.
Uh, I think it’s going to be pretty great. I mean, I’m probably biased, but, uh, I really like my cast. I think we’ve got a really amazing singers, great actors, and you know, having that site specific thing.
And I’m, I’m excited about it. I’m really excited. Nice.
That’s awesome. Kris, thank you so much. It’s been great.
Great. Well, thank you very much for having me. This has been a homebody productions production.
