Cass Van Wyck, Jesse Fraser, & Christopher Lewis from Unit 102’s Therac 25
Set in and around the Princess Margaret Hospital, the story of Alan and Moira exposes the harsh realities
of the solitude and fears that accompany cancer treatment with brutal honesty and wry humour. Pettle’s writing
comes from a place of awful familiarity, as he explains in his forward, “It’s July 15, 1995, and I’m back in the
hospital – radioactive iodine therapy, cancer treatment’s answer to solitary confinement. Why did I write this play? I wrote it to survive days like this. […] I wrote it not only for those who have passed on to other journeys, but for all those who remain in Therac corridors everywhere. People that are not just statistics in flimsy pamphlets or black numbers on manila envelopes, but individuals with brilliant minds and raging spirits, with awe-inspiring courage and beautiful children.”
It was the personal connection to this story that brought this production into existence and provides the motivation to engage in the realities of the content beyond the story-telling. As well as donating a percentage of both the ticket proceeds and additional fundraising efforts to the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation and Gilda’s Club Greater Toronto , the production is coordinating with several organizations to provide talk-back opportunities and other activities in support of the individuals and families fighting the disease both known and unknown to us.
Cass Van Wyck:
Twitter: @classvanwyck
Instagram: classvanwyck
Jessie Fraser:
Instagram: slackbaby
Christopher Lewis:
http://www.majorcallisto.com/
Instagram: majorcallisto
Tickets: https://www.brownpapertickets.com/event/3373355
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/events/1886254528331793/
Transcript
Welcome to episode 121 of Stageworthy, I’m your host Phil Rickaby. Stageworthy is a podcast about people in Canadian theatre featuring conversations with actors, directors, playwrights, and more. If you like the podcast, I hope you’ll leave a comment or rating on Apple Podcasts, Google Music, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Your ratings and comments help new people find the show, or even better, if you know someone you think will like the show, tell them about it. Some of my favourite podcasts became my favourites because someone I knew told me about them. If you want to tell me about somebody that you introduced to Stageworthy, or tell me about the person who introduced you, or you just want to drop me a line with your questions or comments, I would love to hear from you.
You can find Stageworthy on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at StageworthyPod, and you can find the website at stageworthypodcast.com. If you want to drop me a line, you can find me on Instagram and Twitter at philrickaby and my website is philrickaby.com. This week, my guests are Cass Van Wyck, Jesse Fraser, and Christopher Lewis from Unit 102’s production of Therac 25, which plays until April 21st at the Assembly Theatre in Toronto. So if you guys could each just say your names so that everybody can hear whose voice belongs to who. Sure.
My name is Jesse Fraser. I’m Cass Van Wyck. And I’m Christopher Lewis.
And you guys, they said the show is Therac 25. Cass, you’re acting in the show. I am.
Jess and Chris, what are you guys doing on the show? I’m doing the projection design on the show. Um, I’m directing the show. So the play, the play had its, did it premiere at SummerWorks a number of years ago? Or, because I know it was produced at SummerWorks.
It was. It premiered, I believe, at a festival out east. Originally, originally, originally.
Whether it was a fringe festival out there, I’m not sure the exact origin of that, but it was originally done out east. And then, you’re absolutely right, produced at SummerWorks, which was one of the first kind of Toronto productions done here. It was produced a couple of times after that as well.
There’s one at Factory afterwards, I think. Yes. So I’m curious.
I mean, the subject matter sounds really heavy. Um, but everything I’ve read about it doesn’t, it comments on a not, not feeling heavy or what is it that draws you to this particular play? And if somebody wants to give an outline of what it’s about, that’s great too. Sure.
Um, well, Cass was the one who brought the project to everybody. Essentially, it was something that she didn’t discovered some years ago that had, um, a very strong impact on her. Um, and then sort of as everybody has encountered it, I feel like everybody in this project had a moment of like, oh, oh, wow.
Oh, okay. You know, like that kind of like, it’s deceptive like that. So it’s, it’s the story of two young people who meet, uh, in the waiting room of a radiation treatment, uh, centre in the Princess Margaret Hospital.
So it’s a story of two people in their twenties who kind of take a liking to each other and are sarcastic and, you know, funny and geeky. There’s just this underlying layer of really big stuff to deal with. And that continues to kind of come back up at them when they’d sort of forget.
And then they get kind of slapped with it over and over again, but it’s, it’s just, it’s really two people kind of getting to know each other and just the difficulties and the pleasures of that. Yeah. And, and there’s a, there’s a lot of lightness in it and humour, um, and really relatable relationshipy stuff.
And, and then again, just these moments that hit you in a way that again, are really relatable, um, on a much more profound level as far as how we look at life. Hmm. Yeah.
Cass, what was it that drew you to this? Um, well, I, I originally, um, got sent this script. Um, I was looking for two handers. Um, and I originally got sent this script as a recommendation from a friend of my mom’s, like very random, like I got a whole list of two handers and here, read these kind of thing.
And, um, I read this script and I bawled like in a, in a, in a way that’s not like in an emotional kind of way, not in a sad, but it’s just a very emotional, it’s a very emotional, um, show happy, sad, you know, all of the, all of the emotions are in there. Um, and, uh, I, I have a personal connection to this content as many, many, many people do. Um, I lost, uh, my cousin, um, to cancer about six, seven years ago, and he was the age of these characters.
Um, so for me, it was, uh, it’s, it’s Cam’s story. It’s my cousin’s story. And there was something really beautiful about that.
And there was something very, I find a lot of times in my experience anyway, um, when I see movies or plays or whatever, um, about cancer and young people with cancer, it’s always this like gooey love story. Do you know what I mean? It’s always this kind of gooey, ooey, you know, stuff that kind of just makes you like go a little sappy. And the reality of all of that, I think gets kind of undermined it a little bit.
The reality of, of, um, the, uh, subject matter kind of gets kind of undermined it. And, and this script did not do that. It didn’t do that.
And it was the first time I’d ever seen anything like that. And it just was, um, it just blew me away. And I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that the playwright Adam Peddle was writing from firsthand experience.
Um, and I think that authenticity, uh, is like, is, is so key to the, the, the integrity of this show. And, um, I had never seen anything like that. So when I, that was my initial connection to that piece was feeling like it was, it was real and it was my cousin.
It was my cousin. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s his story and being that age going through that, do you know what I mean? Like a young 20 something, where you’re just trying to figure you out, let alone, you know, dealing with big life and death scenarios. So I, that was my, that was my original was it was because it hit me on a very personal level.
Cause it felt like it was his story. And one of the characters remind me of him in many, many different ways. And I, it makes me happy and sad at the same time to do it.
Yeah. Um, and so were you looking at it like you knew that you wanted to, to, to get something rolling? Well, you know, it was, it was one of those, I, I needed a, I needed a two-hander for an audition. Okay.
Um, we were auditioning, I was auditioning, uh, with a company that were allowing people to come in and audition a scene. Um, so I was looking for audition pieces. Um, and actually Kevin Chu, who is associate producing, um, under one unit, one or two for us, him and I, uh, used a scene from the show, the church scene, um, for our audition piece.
And I just, I, and that was a couple of years ago. That was like three years ago. And I’ve been sitting on it for about three years.
And this past October, September, October, um, I knew that the assembly theater had just opened up, um, and was super excited for Leroy street and unit one or two to have a new home. Um, and it’d been a part of, I came and painted floors when they were here. You know, I was, I was, I felt like I had kind of helped a little bit in the little bit in my very, very small contribution as far as painting the floors black kind of way.
Um, and had had, I’d, and I’d messaged Louis Fernandez, who is the other actor in this show and said, Hey buddy, are you guys renting out the assembly theater? Like, are you guys renting this out to other companies to do shows? And he had said to me, yeah, you know what we are, but like, what do you, what are you thinking? And I was like, Oh, like, why don’t we go get a beer? I’ll tell you about this script. But like, you know, as someone who is running a theater company, as he does unit one or two, I’m sure he gets this all the time. So I was really just thinking like, I guess to get, get to go have a beer with my friend.
And if we talk about the show, then great. Um, so we did that. We had this great chat.
I said to the script, um, you know, not really thinking anything of it. And two days later he called me and was like, we need to do this show. We need to do this show.
And he goes to me, this is the best. He goes, he goes, who were you thinking for Alan? Can I, can I audition for you? I’ll audition for you. I’ll audition for you.
Like, if you’re holding auditions, like, please sign me up. Like I will be there. I will audition.
I went, Lewis, like it’s yours. Like if you want, like you don’t, I had, I had met Lewis last year around this time, actually, when he was doing tough Jews with the storefront theater. Um, and the Spadina, Spadina, that’s the one Spadina and Michael Ross.
Um, and, um, it was around this time last year I met him. And so I like have been an absurd fan for like a year. And so him saying to me, can I audition for you? It was like, uh, yeah, you’re going to have to, uh, yeah, I’m going to need, uh, you know, over on these lines and come in and be prepared.
Yeah, no, it’s yours, buddy. If you want it. So he was, he was, he has been, although it was me, you know, bringing the script, he has been a huge part of it actually coming to life.
Um, which I will be forever grateful to him for that. Um, yeah. And then, and then it was just a matter of him presenting it to unit one or two, the entire company, and they were super on board and have been super supportive in our, you know, producing the show.
Um, and, uh, yeah. And then it was just a matter of assembling the team from there. So Lewis really was kind of like, I may have had the idea, but he lit the spark, you know, which was really lovely.
Yeah. I’ll be forever grateful for him for that. Cause yeah.
So I’m curious about the projections. Um, I’m reading about the show and, and then you said projections and I was like, okay, so, um, what are the projections doing in this? Um, that’s a big question. Uh, there’s a lot of, a lot of places where projections exist in this.
There’s really like two major scenes that they, they really, um, live in and are very strong in the projections themselves. But I think it’s just a way to kind of augment and set setting. Um, I think this play is a bit of a, I don’t know, a glass onion or something like, like, yeah, like the deeper you look, there’s, it’s multi-layered and the further you look into it, there’s a lot of room to find a lot of really interesting things.
Um, and in that sense, it, it, the projections serve that purpose is to kind of like pull some of those deeper layers to the forefront and, and bring them out of the very center and, and give them a place to live in front of the audience. And so, um, and that’s done in a lot of different ways. I would say like with the use of audio, with the use of visual, it’s a pretty full kind of multimedia, theatrical projection co-joining kind of thing.
So, um, yeah, so it’s used in some cases just to add hints to scenes in some places to be like a visual expression of the dialogue itself and what the actors are saying, um, what they’re going through in the bigger context. It’s like a macro and micro view. So a lot of stuff.
Yeah. But it looks like when you watch it, it’s, it’s so simple. Yeah.
Right. It’s, it’s, you don’t even think about all of the stuff that’s happening. You’re just in the space with them and they are existing in this absolutely complete environment, um, that is able to be incredibly theatrical in that, like, here is the set, here are the set pieces, here are the actors, but, but we also have like radiation fumes that come off of them, but it’s, it’s not just, so, so, so there, it’s glass onion.
Yeah. And now I’m going to be like running in my head too, right? I always thought that’s what that meant. Yeah, no, I like it.
Let’s coin that phrase, the glass onion. Yeah. Um, but I mean, for, for me, when I first read the script, Lewis approached me, um, for which I am forever grateful to Lewis.
I hope he’s like feeling all of this love right now. Yeah, Lewis couldn’t be here tonight, but he’s getting the most, he would not be getting this kind of love if he were sitting here with us. So you’re welcome, Lewis.
I think pretty much like I read the script and I was like, yeah, I’m, I want to do this. I hate blackouts. And, and, and that was essentially the, the starting point for getting to this place where it’s not a set that has multiple locations that are kind of established in the space.
Um, and it’s not a set where we have blackouts and we have movement and shifting to them because every scene is a different location. So, so we found a way, not just to have different locations with the projections, but to also create kind of a liminal space world that is in between and around each individual scene, which allows Lewis and, uh, and Cass, as well as Moira and Alan, the two characters, space to kind of breathe. And also for us watching space to breathe without having just to have blackouts and wondering what all the scratching and scraping is about.
It kind of just filled the world in a way that is exactly what I hoped for. And it’s so much more than I could have imagined. Um, so it’s like all the elements coming in together, the music’s coming from Nova Scotia.
Um, so I’ve been trying to get bits of video to send to my designers so we can see and hear kind of what it sounds like. And Chris, with all the projection pieces coming together and our stage managers learning how to run the program. Um, because the projections themselves are actually interactive as well.
They’re not static. It’s not straight video going from scene to scene to scene. It’s actually interactive elements.
So as the actors move around the stage, there’s the ability to control the content that’s on the screen itself and, and follow the actors. And it’s kind of, uh, it’s not a stock video. I’m not going to lie.
It sounds like super braggy, but it’s the best. Like it’s, it looks so amazing. Chris has done the most incredible job.
Like it’s beyond anything. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Where we can do this shit. Yeah.
Um, even, even that part of it, like, I’m proud that the software that we’re using is made in Toronto as well. So that’s great. I didn’t know that.
Super, super, like it’s called touch designer by derivative who are based here and it’s like VJ software that’s used for all kinds of crazy stage shows and particle trippy stuff. So there’s a bit of that in there insofar as it doesn’t like destroy. That’s really great.
Sorry. No, it’s just cause it’s really cool. Cause this show, this, this play is so Toronto, it’s set at the princess Margaret hospital that, I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s our, it’s a story of people living here, you know? And it’s, and here we are using even technology from that.
Like that’s such a cool, I had no idea. That’s the coolest thing. I love that so much.
And we’ve, we’ve, we’ve partnered, um, with Toronto organizations as well, as far as the, um, we, this is kind of jumping topics a little bit, but it’s taking that direction. Um, uh, based on the content of this show, we knew it was very important to me right off the bat. And I, and then became very important to everyone else as well.
Um, cause I made it important that, um, we have some sort of community outreach aspect to the show, just because this content is so personal and it is so a part of many, many people’s every day. And we wanted to make sure we are, we are, we are telling a very personal story and we wanted to make sure that we were giving back in order to be able to tell that story. Um, and so we partnered with two really amazing, um, organizations, one of them being the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation.
We ran a GoFundMe campaign. Um, and, uh, because we actually reached our goal. So we are so far able to, we’re over now.
We’re over our goal. So we’re going to keep it open and keep on. So it’s a 50% towards the production, which is amazing because everybody’s been working so hard, uh, just because the project is important.
Like it, it’s really like a passion project without being cheesy, but we also are paying everybody, which is important to us. But we also, right now we’re offering or we’re donating, uh, whatever, like at minimum. Yeah.
So our goal was three grand, was 3000. So the plan was 3000 and, um, 1500 of that will be donated to the Princess Margaret Cancer Foundation. And now that we’re over it’s 35, I think.
So what are we at now? Like 17 something will be done. 50% of whatever’s raised will be donated to them. That was it.
And because, you know, Princess Margaret has said it’s the show it’s, you know, so that was really important to us. Um, and the second organization we partnered with is, um, uh, Gilda’s Club, uh, which is just an amazing, amazing, amazing space, um, in Toronto that is, uh, for people going through family members. So nobody has to go through it alone.
That’s their, yeah. Um, and we, uh, we, we have an amazing, um, outreach coordinator working with us named Alana Perry, who is an arts therapist. Um, and she ran a expressive arts therapy workshop with them, uh, last week.
That was last week. Um, and Kevin and I were lucky enough to go and be a part of it as well. And we met some really amazing people there and, um, had them share their stories with us, which was just the most humbling and wonderful experience.
And then we created all this really beautiful art that will be hanging here in the theater, um, in the lobby. And, uh, we are also doing, uh, a, uh, donation to them. 50% of the ticket sales.
Yeah. Friday, April 13th, but it’s fine. Um, it’s fine.
It’s fine. Everything’s fine. Uh, we’re going to sell it out and give them lots of money.
That’s what we’re going to counter the Friday, the 13th. Um, so yeah, 50% of ticket sales on that night will be donated to them as well. So we’ve been very lucky to have these organizations be a part of our process.
And we’ve been, and we’re also, I mean, like we, so we just ran, we did our, like the closest we’ve been to like a full on run of the show today with as much tech and sound in place as possible. There’s still, you know, little bits here and there, of course, but we also had, uh, a couple of friends sitting in with it and what we realized because we’ve been, we’ve been all very emotional at the end of the piece. Um, the last couple of times, even just like doing a little scene, but we realized that we also have to take a lot of care to how we deal with the end of the show and the, after the show, you know, that, that we can’t just sort of come out and have some fun applause and some bows and then like go drinking at the bar because like it has an impact and we can’t hide from that.
And I think that is, or should we, you know, no, I think the fact that we actually get to make something where we can all sit in a room at the end of it, like we just did and just kind of go, wow. Okay. I’m really feeling things and this is okay.
And you know, like hugs and stuff, but also just like space and time to just have let yourself be there. I think that’s a really, really, really special thing to be able to do it, to be able to experience, to be able to share. Um, and, and it feels, it feels really good, but I want to make sure that we allow everybody to have that be the outcome after going through something like this, you know, what, I mean, what, I mean, this is something that’s occurring to you, like, like now ish.
What is it? We knew that was like a possibility, but it’s, I think when you get into a project, especially one that is emotional, you just sort of like you’re in your bubble. Right. And one thing I was saying to Cass, like a week ago was I realized that in, in the requirements of us making the show with the schedules that we have and the timeframes and everything, a lot of us have all been off in our own little bubbles, kind of in our own little space dealing with this.
And it’s kind of like my understanding of chronic pain, or, uh, my understanding of my friends who’ve had cancer or other illnesses that you do go into your bubble, right? So the heating pipes are acting up right now. Um, but, but so we’ve all been kind of talking about this, but it’s only when all the elements come together that we really get a sense of, of how impactful it all is. So I think there was always the hope that it would have the strong of a reaction at the end and, and how we, I always like to think about like, how do we take care of people coming in? How do we take care of people leaving? Um, but this one is a bit more of a discussion, I think, than I’ve ever had to deal with before, you know, which is kind of cool.
Tumbling to take on this kind of responsibility. Yeah, it really is like, you know, I have friends who are going to be coming, if they are well enough, who are right in the middle of treatment right now. Um, how do I make sure that’s good? And how can they sit next to somebody else who has no relationship or who doesn’t understand and who doesn’t know why they’re feeling like this? And how do I take into consideration the fact that my connection, the thing that grabbed me about this piece is that I have a friend called Moira, which is the name of Cass’s character in the play, who just died a year and a half ago at a very young age, in a very, you know, like, so all of these levels, like, how do we take care of all of us so that we can go to the place that this play takes us to in a really loving way? Yeah.
Um, yeah, the pipes. Indie theater. Indie theater.
It’s like, actually, I’m curious. I haven’t actually worked in this space. But, um, whenever I worked at the Red Sand Castle, the guys who live upstairs really hate the fact that there’s a theater downstairs.
So they like stomp where they like play the music really loud. Is the church. Yeah.
So the next door is, um, is a charitable organization that is based around a church. I believe we are. It’s a bit of an evangelical.
Yeah, it’s love. It’s they’re lovely. They’re lovely, lovely, lovely.
We just can’t do matinees. Because in the afternoons, they have a big old music fest. And it’s lovely.
It may sound like they’re no, honestly, like, we’ll be they sound like they’re having the best, best time. And like, we just can’t do a show. So that’s okay.
You just can’t. You can’t do two o’clock matinees. And you know what? That’s totally fine.
It is absolutely fine. Because they sound like they’re having the best time over there. So who are we to squash that? We just hope that it warms up in a week and we can turn the heat off.
Yeah. So you know, the pipes will sweaters and you know, just the usual crank the heat beforehand. And you know, everybody does that.
Right? Yeah. Yeah. One of the things I always like to talk about is people’s relationship to theater and why they chose to do this thing.
And so I’m always curious about like, what was your introduction to theater? And why did you make it the focus of your life? Theaters always been a pretty big part of my life. I’m not really fully in theater. I am in this case, I get around and do a bunch of different things.
But my uncle was a prop master named Tom McEnany. He’s been in theater or he was in theater for a very, very long time. So as I was growing up, he would always invite me to help him like make giant sets for this, that or the other thing.
So that was a big part of my youth. And then I think my introduction to theater is in like, the first big thing I saw was Keane starring Derek Jacobi and Princess Margaret Theater, I think it was. And that whole thing as well as like very meta, there’s like a play in a play kind of ending with that too.
So that definitely blew my mind when I was a kid, you know, like, at the end, the back of the stage comes up, and there’s an audience at the back of the stage, and they turn around and bow there. And as a kid, I was just like, Oh, my God. So that was those were kind of my early interests in into theater, the things that got me interested in it.
So yeah, I’m like, I don’t know of a time when I wasn’t. Yeah. I mean, I sort of early earliest memories for me of performance would have been, you know, like, the, the Christmas pageant at St. Clemens, which is up in North Toronto.
And apparently, the microphone cord got pulled on the Virgin Mary. And so she was just talking in the mic. And apparently, I went, just talk loud.
You were directing at a very young age. Yeah. Angel Gabriel.
Oh, these amazing tool wings that my mother made me weren’t real wings, you know what I mean? Like little outline, stupid wings, they were that I wanted, because that’s what everybody had. But my mom made me these amazing what diaphanous is that? You know, but I think before that, even my parents talk about my ability to entertain an entire dinner table full of adults so that I didn’t have to eat the food in front of me. So I think it was always kind of part but yeah, all like from from community church.
And actually, I still have some friends who are making theatre from that group, like Daniel Chapman Smith, who works with Project Humanity, who’s a dancer and a performer as well. We did Oliver Twist together and a lot of other things. And, you know, there are there are a number of people who came out of that kind of youth group church scene that are still making theatre in Toronto or television or something arts related, which is kind of cool.
And throughout school and university and when did you decide that this was going to be your thing? I don’t Okay, so I kind of feel like it’s a backwards of that. Like, I feel like I had a realization that that was what I was doing. And then I had to like, actively come to terms with what that meant.
So it was all just why do theatre? Well, that’s what I do. That’s what she does theatre, she’s acting or whatever. And then all of a sudden, the implications were starting to make themselves apparent.
Income, security or lack thereof in general, where I wanted to live and what I wanted to do. And you know, all those kind of things all of a sudden, it’s like, oh, I’ve made decisions without realizing them. And now I need to actually think seriously about what that means.
And part of the result of that was that I the last show I’ve done in Toronto was in 2012. And it was a French show, it was a lot of fun, and we actually made money. And it was one of the hardest experiences of my life.
I was miserable at the end of it, because I wasn’t making the work in the way that I wanted to do it. I didn’t know how to ask the people involved to work the way because I didn’t even know what I was asking. So I ended up I ended up losing my aunt to cancer.
One incredible gift out of that, as well as quitting smoking, which was huge. But I inherited just enough money that I could leave. And so I spent five years leaving and coming back.
And every time I left, I would go to where there is an artistic community or a theatre company that I was interested in and sort of create my own training program. My mom calls it my bespoke MA. And so I the first thing I did on that trip was I went to Dublin, where I spent two weeks living with Moira.
Really? Yeah, at the end of Unicorn Lane. Unicorn Lane, give me a break. That’s not real.
No, it’s totally real. Unicorn Lane in Ireland. Give me a break.
And so Moira was living there because she had very hastily, but just like fall off the world fallen in love with this Irish man called Gareth. And they moved to Dublin and she was there just trying to figure out what the fuck to do with her life. And she was angry.
And we’d stay up late drinking wine and like, just talking about like, what are we doing? And how do we do this? And Moira and I had been at university together. She was in the first play that I ever directed, which was The Skin of Our Teeth by Thornton Wilder. And I have pictures of her.
We were taking these shots from the beginning of the show and she was laughing so hard that she peed herself. It’s just like, it’s so beautiful. I’m sure she’d be thrilled that you just share She loved it.
She would love that you danced with her. She’d be the one to be like, this is a thing that I love, right? And so yeah, so I was in Dublin and then I spent some time in Berlin and I ended up going to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival and I saw 40 shows in like 10 days and actually that was one too many. And I ended up in Chicago for the better part of two years doing a Lecoq-based program and everything.
And then I’ve been back in Toronto for sort of two and a half years. And just sort of like, after all of that was like, oh, okay, now what have I done to myself? Kind of taking that time to like, find some jobs that are just like jobs so that I can make back all the money that I spent on this and then slowly start to kind of reach back out to the theatre community here and make it new for me. Because I know I grew up here.
I know everybody. I think I know everybody. But like, it’s a different thing now coming back feeling like I have a better sense of what it is that I’m trying to do.
And so this show has been a wonderful, a really wonderful opportunity to try and see if I can implement the way to where I feel like this is my first job in a way. I directed stuff for almost 10 years before I went on this trip, this five year long whatever here and there. But this is the first show where I feel like I’m actually, like the way that we are working feels like a really good conversation between artists.
And it feels like we are really challenging ourselves. And I’m really happy with the way we’re working. I’m realizing I’ve also kind of like forgotten where I was.
So that’s how you got into theatre. It literally is. It really is.
And so Chris and I know each other from high school. Way, way, way back. Like just a couple of years, right? Yeah, we worked together before.
And so when I was like, I don’t want black ads, how do I do this? It was like, I know that I can give, send this script to Chris, and then he’s gonna like, explode my brain with the way that he looks at it. Like there’s a whole technical element to this play that’s kind of unspoken. And it’s basically the title, right? So the THERAC-25 is a machine.
It was a radiation treatment machine that is known in programming. Like in comp science, computer science, they actually teach the THERAC-25. Like it’s, it’s taught to people who are becoming computer programmers, as one of the biggest like programming mistakes in history.
Because it’s like, what is it in the Urban Dictionary? Oh, Urban Dictionary defines the THERAC-25 as a failure of epic proportions, especially in computer or like in programming or scientific terms. So it’s a programming mistake that resulted in the death of six people in the 80s. A machine that was supposed to be, you know.
Like thousands and thousands of treatments were successful. But there was like this glitch that happened, which Chris can explain in more technical terms. But basically, like, so the numbers that I saw that when you have, when you go and get an x-ray done, the amount of radiation that passes through you or hits you is one half of a rad.
When you have radiation treatment done, typically you experience 200 rads. When the THERAC-25 malfunctioned, people were experiencing direct beams of anywhere from 10 to 25,000. Jesus.
Right? So people talked about being, feeling burned and technicians were like, oh no, that’s not possible. One guy like jumped up and ran off to the bed when he got hit with the beam. Well, he was like, he was in a room on like, like, so when you talk about like the level of failures that can happen, his, the, the audio and the video to the technician’s booth had malfunctioned that day as well.
So the technician couldn’t see or hear from inside the room until there was banging on the door. The guy’s like, let me out because you’re, you’re killing me. So, so, so like, I knew I was going to give this to Chris and Chris was going to go off and read all the stuff about this machine.
And integrate that, like, like integrate so many different angles of looking at that into the projection and into sort of the medical element of the world that these, these two are in. And the play, to me, anyways, the play itself isn’t about that. It’s not about this giant killer, like it’s not about the actual machine itself.
But that is something that exists and is implied and kind of rolls through the play, like a ribbon from the beginning to the end. Well, and like, we sort of, we sort of found ourselves, or at least I found myself thinking like, oh, well, you know, cancer is a failure of epic proportions, right? And then, and then, like, you know, some dorky kid in his twenties hitting on a girl in a waiting room with radiation treatment in place. That is pretty much guaranteed to be a failure of epic proportions, you know? And then on the sort of the meta level, like when I was like, we’re all in our little bubbles trying to get this play together and all this technical stuff is supposed to come together.
And, you know, this little storefront, I’m like, we’re setting ourselves up for a failure of epic. But there’s like, so like all these layers of, like, it’s wonderful. Like the, the, the amount of risk and uncertainty.
And then let’s, like, let’s see. I was trying to like, along similar lines, I was trying to express in some places, things like cancer or like, not, I wasn’t expressing this, but Alan’s dorkiness, those are like programming things. Like our DNA itself is the programming structure for life.
And for us, DNA and RNA is how we exist and how we begin. And a lot of forms of cancer are tied directly to DNA malfunctions, basically, like a very similar thing. So there’s that side of it as well.
Like it is, it is arguably a programming error that we get cancer that, that our cells are generated in such an efficient, like overly efficient killer way. Like that’s programming or Alan’s like, or the dorkiness between the two of them. There’s a lot of friction that rolls between the two characters throughout.
And, and that’s like, you know, programming errors of behavioralism. Like they were raised to always screw up and always put their foot in their nose or whatever, whatever they do. Can you, can you explain the, um, programming, like the race condition or whatever it is? Because I feel like that, that plays into how they interact with each other too.
Like the, like the speeding. So many layers. I’m trying to think of like a way to explain a programming concept that’s not.
To the kindergarten kids. Okay, so this is how I understand it, so I understand it as the technician was pushing buttons and like, kind of like clicking enter a bunch of times and then went, Oh wait, I clicked it to enter too many times. So they hit the delete button a couple of times, then recorrected the code and hit enter a bunch of times again.
But the computer had like something went too fast. So the deletes kind of hiccups. Yeah.
It’s like, um, it’s like you’re telling you’re sending two different instructions to the computer and one of them happens fast and one of them happens slow and they should happen like a should happen before B, but sometimes B happens before a, and that’s just, it’s called non-deterministic. It’s when something it’s like when the outcome doesn’t match your expectations, right? So those non-deterministic errors, that’s what this condition is. You say like, don’t hurt someone and then like make the machine go.
But sometimes those messages would get switched right. And, and we, so it’s like the machine goes and then you’re like, Oh, by the way, don’t hurt them. And the machine’s like, Oh shit, you’re supposed to go, don’t hurt them and go ahead and turn it on.
But instead it went, go ahead, turn on. And then you went, Oh, and by the way, like be safe about it. You know, it’s just the wrong order of things happening.
And it’s a really simple thing. And that’s, that’s another Canadian connection as well. Cause that’s AECL with direct 25 was a Canadian joint venture with another company.
And, um, it’s, I was saying to Jesse, like, this is not the most thrilling reading in the world, but there’s all kinds of like, I was reading, um, papers that students had written about this incident in this machine. And it’s like just full of all this foreshadowing, like, you know, you, you would hit the wrong key and initiate the machine in one way, but the key initiating was given more priority. So you’d say go machine.
And that was more important than keystrokes. So if you said go machine and then said, Oh, um, put this safety thing in the way as well. Like you hit a key that said to do that, it would ignore the keystroke and just kind of do the machine running.
It’s so simple. It’s so simple. Like, like the technician putting the machine in the wrong mode and then just switching it at the last second and that switch back to the right mode wouldn’t get recognized and horrible things happen.
So right around the time that Adam was, uh, receiving his treatment at the princess Margaret hospital, where the machine was originally first be used. And it went out, there’s like a couple of hospitals, a number of hospitals in the States, as well as number across Canada. It had been banned after these deaths that happened in a couple of different places for a short period of time.
Cause right around the time that Adam would have been undergoing treatment, the ban would have been lifted. So I, we haven’t asked, we don’t know what he was actually being treated with, if it was the Threat 25 or not, but that has its own meaning to us as well, that we add to it. I mean, it’s, it’s an, a, it’s a miraculous machine.
And I’ve tried to be very conscious of not, not that machine in particular, but a radiotherapy machine. It’s an amazing thing. That treatment is amazing.
Um, but it is, it, it is tearing apart pieces of, of tissue with, with various like intention, you know, it’s a very complex, paradoxical machine. And that, that paradox kind of, again, rolls through it. It’s a machine that helps you by hurting you.
Yeah. There’s a, there’s a line in the play that Moira has. She says, Alan asks her about her treatment and she says, they have to test my blood to make sure it’s okay to poison it.
Like it’s, that’s what a like backwards thing. Do you know what I mean? We got to make sure you’re healthy enough to put all this poison in your body to make you better. Like, it’s like a, yeah.
And then hoping that, you know, the cure doesn’t kill you before. Yeah. Even if it does fix you, then it doesn’t kill you.
Yeah. You know, um, when we were talking about like executions where like they have to make sure that the inmate is healthy before they’ll execute them. You know, it’s, it’s sort of a similar thing, like not to draw parallels.
Yeah. No, not at all. Not at all.
Yeah. Yeah. Um, back to the, I mean, we’ve digressed, but everybody gets a chance to talk about your theater origin story.
Oh yeah. Um, theater origin story, Cass Van Wyck, uh, the theater origin story. Um, I, uh, I joke that I was on stage before I was even physically on in this world.
Cause my mom and dad are both actors. Um, and my mom was pregnant. My mom was pregnant with me on stage during shows.
Uh, they met, um, doing a children’s theater with carousel players, um, in St. Catherine’s and then went on to work with a company called a theater beyond words in St. Catherine’s. Um, so that’s where I grew up in So, um, it is literally always been a part of my, like, I, I, I was a baby on tour with them. You know, I was lit, they would literally bring me on tour and then like hand me off to the ushers and they would go do the show and then pick me up at the after and like, and I have one of my earliest, earliest, earliest memories is sitting off stage with some rando volunteer.
They thought my parents are wonderful. They were not, I’m making them sound very irresponsible, but it was great. Um, I was little, little, little, it’s like one of my very, very earliest memories is sitting with a volunteer backstage while their show was going on and theater beyond words, um, tour to show called the potato people.
And it was all, it’s all mask. Um, and, uh, my dad coming off stage and I had so vivid. It’s so crazy.
I think of M and M’s, um, and he went off and did one of the, he like held up, did one of these I’m on the frame. Held out his hand. I’ll describe what I’m doing.
Held out his hand and I put an M and M in his hand. He popped it in his mouth, winked at me and then went on stage. And it is such a vivid memory for me.
And my parents joke that I knew the show better than they did by the end of it. So after the show was like the ending of their particular show that they were doing for many, many years that they were doing, um, the audience would normally start to kind of clap along with the music at the end. But if little three-year-old Cass was sitting in the audience, she would start it.
Like I would just be like, this is the part where we all start to catch up audience, catch up, come on, come on, come on. So, um, and then my parents, my parents were really instrumental in my intro to all that. And for me and my brother, um, and when we were young, you know, asked if this was something we wanted to do because it was such a part of our upbringing.
Um, and we were both very interested in it. So from a very young age, my brother and I were, um, auditioning and acting. We did a lot of mostly TV and film.
It wasn’t so much theater that we were doing at that age. Um, uh, and although it was my intro into the acting world, it wasn’t really where I started performance wise. I did my brother, both.
And I did a lot of, um, TV and film commercial work for many, many years. And then it really wasn’t till like, kind of similar to what you said, the Christmas pageants and, um, you know, grade eight, you know, plays and stuff that I really got a chance to be on stage. And there was something, I also have a very good memory.
I think I was about, I think I was in grade five and we were doing this musical, um, called nobody’s children, um, written. It’s a Canadian, uh, playwright named Wynn Bray. Um, who is a good friend of my mom’s.
Um, and we did this show in my, in my elementary school. Uh, and, uh, during the one part, there was, there was a part where it was two very similar songs or like, I think it was like the beginning of, yeah, that’s what it was. It was the beginning.
It was kind of a piano reprise of one of the beginnings of the songs. So during one of our very first shows, some kids started singing the song thinking that it was the time to do the big number as opposed to just this middle intro part. So people started standing up and started like doing the actual number when it wasn’t supposed to be happening.
And I remember like being a part of that and going, okay, like having enough conscious, being conscious enough to go, okay, I have to go along with this because I can’t call anybody out, but this is wrong. And so we did the whole bit, but ended up in the middle of the stage and nobody moved because we’re a, there’s a bunch of 12 year olds up on a stage going, this was wrong. There’s a whole auditorium of parents going, this is good.
You know? And I went, I improvised. I did a line. I said something like, okay, everyone, let’s all get back to our cabins or something.
And everyone was like, okay. And went off stage. And I had this like profound moment of, I need to do this forever.
Like I need to, I affected, I affected. There were, there were 30 other of me’s up there and they didn’t do anything. And I did something and that made the story happen.
And that realization for me, even though I’d been acting and performing for many, many, many years prior to that, something about it being live and something about it needing to happen in that moment was like, it had a profound effect on me. And then I did something similar where like, you know, the awkward teenage years hit and I was like super uncomfortable with myself and was like, no, no, nobody look at me. And decided, you know, in university it was like, I’m going to be a teacher.
I’ll teach drama. That’s how I’ll keep it in my life. And went to, did two years of teacher’s college.
Yeah. And then went, oh yeah, no, this is not going to work out. And then it took that realization of no, I can’t, this is not what I want to be doing.
It took me getting out of it to really solidify. This is what I wanted to do. And I joke all the time because I know a lot of people whose parents aren’t in the arts at all and are, you know, not very supportive of that choice.
And I joke all the time, my parents sit me down and they go, Cass, you remember how poor we were, right? You remember what your childhood was, right? And I go, yeah, amazing. It was amazing. It was filled with love and art and yeah, okay.
We didn’t have the X-Box, but okay. Like I lived, I had the most amazing childhood and I wouldn’t change that for the world. But they, they look at me like, you, you remember how hard this, you literally lived through this.
Like, you know how hard it is. So yeah, I, I, it, it took me getting out of it to solidify that. I knew I needed to be into it, but yeah, I’ve been very long story short.
I’ve literally been on a stage before I was even physically in this world, which is kind of a cool thing. Yeah. Where did open, open, open come from? Yeah.
So open, open, open for those who don’t know is a New Works festival that I co-produced with my very good friend, Emma Bulpin. And it came from her. She, she and I went to university together and she was a year above me.
And so we kind of knew who we were, but we really weren’t good friends. And when I moved to Toronto, she reached out and was like, I have this idea because I’m working on some new material and I’m realizing there’s no space to workshop it without pouring a lot of my own resources and money and everything into something. And I have this idea to produce this kind of festival event night where artists from every jurisdiction, you know, theater, singing, visual art, comedy, whatever can come and do a little segment of something they’re working on and then get some feedback.
And I thought it was brilliant because that really doesn’t exist. I know. I, I, um, I think Crapshoot is something very similar, but I think ours is a little bit different in a sense that, um, we’re, we’re, we’re inviting audience feedback.
Um, as far as like, we, we give out, uh, little cards for them to write feedback on. Oh, does Crapshoot do that? Yeah. Yeah.
I, I, and, and ours is, I think Crapshoot is a little bit more, um, theater based and ours is, ours is, we, I mean, the last one we was about a month ago and we had singer songwriters, we had theater, we had a standup comedian, we had a dance piece, contemporary, like it’s, it’s, it’s a, we like it being, um, for all art forms. And there’s something really lovely about, um, connecting. A lot of the times I think we get very siloed in our own art forms.
Um, I know I do anyway from my personal experience. And so to bring all of these artists together in one room and have them watch all of these different arts forms is really important. And we also invite, um, uh, uh, you know, celebrated artists from around the city to come and sit as a panel, because although it is great to get, you know, audience feedback, we also want someone who, you know, has some experience in the field, giving some very constructive criticism as well.
So, but we invite a diverse set of panelists, right? So, um, we had, uh, you know, Melinda Little, who is a, a movement dancer, amazing human being. We have had, um, uh, Claire Burns, who is the artistic director of the Storefront Theater. Um, uh, you know, just a very wide variety of people.
So it’s, you know, theater artists giving feedback to dancers and dancers giving feedback to standup comedians. And as, as a standup comedian, as you are a dancer, tell me how my body is, tell me how I’m moving, tell me how, you know, oh, is this comedian, uh, comment on this scene? How is, how’s the timing of it? How was the rhythm? How was it? You know, it’s, there’s something really beautiful about using your lens to comment on someone else’s work in a very constructive, positive, um, kind of way. So that’s, yeah, that’s open, open, open.
And we do it, um, over at Buddies and Bad Times and they are amazing. So it’s about, it’s quarterly. We do it quarterly, um, which I think also gives enough time in between, uh, because we’ve sold out, we’ve done four and all four sell out and that’s almost 200.
We do it in the cab space there and it turns into a big party, right? So it’s super casual. You know, people are getting up, they’re getting drinks. They’re, you know, it’s super, super casual kind of night.
Um, but it turns into, it’s, it’s kind of this really amazing thing that’s kind of just developed. And, and, uh, yeah, I’m really excited to see where it goes. Emma was, you know, it was her initial idea and I’ve just been so lucky to be a part of it with her, um, producing and co-hosting with her and curating each one.
And yeah, it’s fun. One last question. This is new, your hair.
I’m watching you talk all this and I’m like, I’m trying to, I’m like remembering you with your hair, but then also like can’t remember you with your hair. But like, I think I saw on Instagram, like you just shaved literally two days ago, two days ago. I can’t stop touching it.
I can’t stop touching it. It was like, this is like this amazing thing. It’s amazing.
So I, did you know that you would have to do this? And was it difficult for you to do? I didn’t have to do it. I mean, there’s, let me rephrase that in the script. She’s bald.
She is in the, Moira is bald. She is in the middle of her chemo treatment. She’s lost all her hair.
Um, she makes reference, she makes jokes in the script. She literally says, I’m bald. She physically said, yeah, she actually says that line in, in, in the, in the, in the script, in the story.
Um, so we knew, I knew that was an element. What form that was going to take, you know, whether it was a bald cap or whether it was, you know, and so I, I sat on that by myself for a while. Um, I have never dyed my hair.
It’s never been shorter than my shoulders. I’ve always had a, I’ve always had to look like my resume photo. I’ve been acting since I was four years old.
Do you know what I mean? And resume photos are fricking expensive, man. That’s hundreds of dollars. No one can, you can’t just be doing diddly squat to your hair and being like, Oh, guess I need a new one.
Um, so that was a job I had once because airbrushing bullets out of an actor’s head. Come on. Are you kidding me? That’s the greatest story.
You need to leave with that from now on. That’s Chris Lewis. One time I airbrushed it, but he couldn’t afford to get.
That’s so funny. So with this, okay, perfect example, right? You don’t change your hair because you can’t afford to. So I’ve never, I’ve never done anything.
Um, and I, and I knew because that was such an integral part to telling this story. Um, one night Lewis and I actually were talking, we went out for some drinks and had a few too many and, um, got talking about that element and him and I, and we decided, we’re like, no, like this is really important. Let’s do it.
If we’re going to do this show, let’s do it. Let’s do it right. Let’s honor it.
Let’s do it. And so we kind of packed that this is, this is what we would do. We’d shave our heads.
Okay, great. So fast forward now a month or so, and I haven’t told anybody. This is the other thing Lewis and I have really only talked about this because that was the other thing is I wanted to sit on this by myself for a while.
Cause I didn’t want to do it. I didn’t want any outside influence, right? Cause it’s a kind of, cause my hair before, if anyone’s ever seen a photo of me was long, but we cut 12 inches and thick and dense and I’ve never done anything to it. So I wanted to, you know, I knew there was going to be a lot of, uh, concern, not concerns, the wrong word, uh, reaction.
There was going to be strong reaction from a lot of people in my life just, and make it not in a negative, like, why would you do that? But in a way that, are you sure you want to do that? You know, like just to, we’re just gonna make sure you’ve thought about this. So it’s a drastic move and fair enough, but it was like all the have cut their hair as well. That’s always, that’s always the sign.
Right. Britney Spears. Like it’s you’re right.
I totally. So I really, I did sit on it for about a month by myself before I told anybody. Um, and now fast forward.
So Louis and I make this pack fast forward about a month. We read through the script again and we’re like, Oh no, Alan’s got his hair. Yeah.
I think he doesn’t, he doesn’t do chemo. He’s just doing radiation. Okay.
So this is all me. Okay, cool. Which is neither here nor there.
Just kind of a funny intro to how this all kind of came about, you know, and, and I knew, and then when, once the, um, uh, partnering with these organized, with the charitable organizations started coming out, I wanted to make sure we were raising as much money as possible. And so one of the elements of the GoFundMe was if we raise the three grand, I will shave my head. Um, so we raised that money.
Right. Um, and, um, I went two days ago, so Saturday morning, uh, I went one of my very best friends, Tricia Dahl, um, uh, is a hairdresser. And so I went home to my tiny town in Niagara and 9am Saturday morning showed up at her salon and she braided my hair and kind of, and I donated it.
I’ve donated the hair to the Canadian Cancer Society. It’s the weirdest thing. You like cut your hair, you throw it on a plastic bag, you mail it to them.
Like it’s the weirdest, like it’s someone’s job to receive like bags of hair. Like that’s like, that’s a little weird. It’s amazing.
It’s a basic organization. I don’t want to, you know, undermine it in any way, but that’s, that’s all weird. Um, so yeah, she cut it at first.
So she cut it and then literally took the buzzer to it. And I’m, although it’s like, it’s, it was a number one on the razor. That’s his, I don’t know what that, that means more to men.
I think that it does. It was the number one, the number one familiar with the number one. Yep.
Yep. So, uh, we did that. Um, and it’s, and I had this moment after, and the other thing was when, uh, we had, we did that arts, expressive arts therapy workshop at Gilda’s club.
Um, the women I was speaking to there who, uh, are undergoing cancer treatments and, and, and all of that, they asked, cause we were talking about the play. We were talking about the characters and they asked if this was something I was going to do. And I said, yeah, that’s, this is, it was pre right.
It was pre me doing this. And they were so excited for me. No, seriously.
They were like, you are going to feel so liberated. You are going to feel powerful. You are going to like, they were genuinely excited for me to do this.
And it seems so, it’s so funny because I never wanted it to be like, you know, gimmicky. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? I really want to make sure that it was, it was, it was very important to me that this show is done right and done well and done with the integrity that it deserves and should be told.
And so doing it a bald cap just doesn’t seem. Right. Well, you’d never do wit with a bald cap, right? Well, this is like, it’s not, you don’t, if it didn’t seem right, it felt like it would be undermining the entire story.
And if we’re going to do it, we need to do it right. We need to tell the story, right. So it’s something that’s been very, very important for me.
And ever since I did it, oh man, I love it. I love it. I’ve had the most positive and like beautiful reaction from friends and family.
And I’d be getting messages on Facebook and Instagram from people. I even, I think I posted a photo on Instagram and there was, I think I hashtag like girls with shaved heads or something like that. I’ve had three women who I don’t know, reach out and be like, uh, you look amazing.
Just wanted to say, you know what I mean? Like even from like a, like take the whole, you know, element of cancer and all of that kind of out just from like a female body positive perspective. This has been life. It’s life changing.
It’s life. Like it’s, I feel amazing. Were you nervous before you did it? Cause I mean, I think it was like, I, I did not relish when I shaved my head.
It was necessary. But you know, it’s still like a thing. I was, I mean, it’s silly to say I wasn’t nervous.
Yeah. I was nervous, but the, the importance of it trumped any of those nerves. Like it trumped, and there was something like, I was more excited than nervous.
I think it was like a nervous energy. I will say the only, the, the only time that I kind of went, oh God, I is my good friends are getting married in August. And I had a moment of like, what will I look in those photos? There was only one, there was only, and that lasted 30 seconds.
And then I went, and I’m going to look adorable or maybe I’ll keep this and I’m going to rock this for the rest. Like I, it’s, it’s just hair. It’s just hair.
This is what I learned. The downside to shaving your head is when you start to grow it up, there’s this point when it starts to get really long before it falls down and you look ridiculous. So that’s why I’ve never grown up.
Like at times I’ve been like, maybe I should grow it up. And I remember that stage. I’m like, never.
My friend, so my friend, Trisha, the hairdresser who, who did this, she’s got a whole grow up plan for me. She’s got, she’s got like, she goes, it’s not the shave. It’s the grow up plan.
So you need haircuts on this day, and this day, and this day, it’s going to be this and this and that. And now I’m like, I don’t know if I’m growing up. I don’t know.
And this, and there’s something it’s been liberating and freeing. And I feel like this weird confidence that I didn’t really know. I knew I had, but like was super deep.
And that was just like exploded. And I just, I am so grateful to this show. Cause I would never, I would never in a million years.
Moira has shifted since you shaved your head. Moira has the character. And like in some really lovely subtle ways, just like, and maybe it’s the mum jeans, the nineties mum jeans.
But like, which you’re rocking right now, but there’s, there’s something a bit more pushy about her in a way that’s really grounded. Whereas before it was just more sort of like raging. Yeah.
And a bit more of a flailing way. And this, this is kind of like grounded. Yeah.
Yeah. It’s a, it’s been like, it’s just pretty humbling. Good experience.
Yeah. I feel good. When does the show open? It opens Friday, this Friday, April 6th, April 6th.
Well, all right. Well, thank you so much. Yeah.
Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Thank you.
This has been a Homebody Productions production.
