EmmaClaire Brightlyn

EmmaClaire Brightlyn is an actor arrived in Toronto. With an MA in Classical and Contemporary Text Performance from the Royal Scottish Academy of Music and Drama, EmmaClaire has spent the last 8 years performing and making work in the UK. She has been a company member with Ipdip Theatre, creating engaging work for under 4 year olds and the big people who come with them, as well as an actor with Playwright’s Studio Scotland, workshopping new pieces of theatre. In 2012, EmmaClaire was part of the multi-award winning short film, Notes and has been involved with the production company Worrying Drake and director John McPhail ever since. Most recently she was seen as Apemantus in Timon of Athens, and Goneril in Queen Lear with Bard in the Botanics, Scotland’s largest Shakespeare Festival.

EmmaClaire also works internationally as a Fight Director and Instructor.

http://www.emmaclairebrightlyn.com/
Instagram: emcbrightlyn

Transcript

Welcome to episode 107 of Stageworthy. I’m your host, Phil Rickaby, returning to you on this first week of 2018 after a brief hiatus for the holidays. I hope you had a great holiday season and that 2018 holds much love, friendship, and great theatre for you.

If you want to drop me a line, you can find Stageworthy on Facebook and Twitter at StageworthyPod, and you can find the website at stageworthypodcast.com. And if you want to find me, I’m on Twitter and Instagram at philrickaby, and you can find my website at philrickaby.com. My guest this week is EmmaClaire Birghtlyn, stage and film actor and action designer based in both Toronto and Glasgow. You’ve spent eight years in Scotland? Yeah. So what, what took you to Scotland? It was a big plane.

Yeah, I mean, the very short answer is I went over and did my master’s. Okay. The slightly longer but still short answer is my mom and dad are from Glasgow, and I have dual citizenship.

And so it was around the time I was thinking of moving from Calgary to Toronto anyways. And Canada is so big that moving to Toronto and moving to Glasgow, I mean, it was an arbitrary difference. And I already had a passport, so you can only take two bags, you know, on a plane.

So I jumped over and did that thinking if I’m going to be young and impoverished, maybe do that in Europe for a while. Not really thinking that I would be there in it like for the greater period of time, which is where I got to last year and suddenly went, holy shit, I’ve been here for seven years. Does that mean I’m staying forever? And that little niggly voice said, but what about Toronto? What was it that I mean, when you so you did your master’s and then So I did my master’s.

Was that the whole seven years or was that like? No, the UK especially do a lot of one year intensive master’s programs and that make it an amazing opportunity for people, especially from North America or for somewhere else to come in and do intensive study. And so it’s really a conservatory style is the intention behind it. What it also does for each of these schools offering it is bring an influx of usually international students to support the financial requirements of the program.

Um, so it was just a one year master’s and that means that you don’t do a thesis in the same way that you’d spend years and years creating a thesis. You do, I mean, more of a thesis project, which they make you choose, or at least in our case, they made us choose within the first week of getting there and figuring everything out. Well, if it’s a one year project and it’s a thesis project, you got to be working on that for quite a bit.

I mean, that’s the intention. There are many people who did not do that. My, my take on this, and I will always attribute to Stacey Schaefer, who’s an amazing director, who is also on the course.

She did the directing stream. Uh, you know, as you’re thinking through all of those, like the female voice or Shakespeare’s women or all of these totally valid, you know, topics, she said, well, what have you always wanted to do? This is your chance. What have you always wanted to do? And I said, well, I’ve always wanted to be a superhero.

And it was, it was actually like a light bulb, a cartoon light bulb went off above my head. Uh, so I did my, my master’s thesis project in women in stage combat, which meant that I could read graphic novels and watch superhero movies and take sword classes and research. Uh, actually what was the best was after doing something that I thought was kind of a lark and having a laugh, uh, has turned into a pretty great career.

Okay. Um, so over in the UK, I am one of Scotland’s most working fight directors. And this year I’ve had the awesome opportunity to move more.

And I’ve been doing short film for the last couple of years. Uh, but this year I got to fight arrange two features that are going to have. Likely international debut.

That’s great. It’s pretty great when you’re, when your day job from acting is playing with swords or killing zombies. Well, Hey, I mean, what more could you ask for? Really? I mean, more money.

Well, obviously more money, more money kind of goes with it. But like, if you have to be able to do something funny, you might as well be a superhero. You might as well.

Exactly. Yeah, exactly. So even before you went to Scotland, when did you know that theatre was a thing that you wanted to do? Uh, I mean, the really cheesy joke that I say is that I popped out of the womb and went to school.

Um, I, until the age of about, I would say a solid 10 and three quarters, I wanted to be a mermaid. And when I discovered that wasn’t a possibility, no matter how hard I sang in our bathtub, I think actress was an easy fit. Um, yeah, I am incredibly lucky to have very, very supportive parents, uh, both of whom grew up obviously in the UK, um, and being involved in, like the show choir at their church or, you know, that, that kind of thing, glee club in, in a more Scottish sense of it.

So less smiling. Um, and they really encouraged both my brother and I in that kind of activity. And we took to it, um, and, you know, getting to that age where you’re choosing careers, I w I did well in school and we could have done a number of things I’m sure.

Uh, but this was what I, I just decided on that was it. And I remember my dad telling me in university, uh, I think it was maybe the second or third show of university that they came to see. And he, he just said, you know, for all the time, I thought you were just having fun.

This is what you’re meant to be doing. You’re just meant to be doing it. Uh, so yeah.

I mean, I’ve, I’ve often said, it’d be really nice if I could have any idea of doing anything else that, you know, might have a salary. Well, that’s, I mean, that’s the hard thing about this industry. And, you know, when I was in theatre school, that’s one of the things that they said is if you could be happy doing something else, do it.

Yeah. Um, yeah, I mean, I’m, I think I’m extra insane because I just got to the point in, in Calgary before I left that I had enough connections that I was starting to, to make a comfortable living and didn’t need the waitressing job in the same kind of capacity. And then I moved to Scotland and did a master’s, which was an excellent handshake into the community, but the most expensive handshake.

Um, and over the last four years, I’ve been working solely in the industry, which is also pretty great and getting to a pretty comfortable situation. So of course that means I should move across the world again. Uh, and now in my mid thirties, get to feel that wonderful pang of desperation.

So having like finding yourself in like a spot that’s like, you know, you’re working pretty steadily as a, as a, as a fight director and you’re doing fights for, you know, your actor, you’re doing fights for, uh, for these feature films and things. What is it that made you decide that you wanted to come back to Toronto? Well, here’s the thing. Here’s the thing.

Okay. Okay. Uh, I just want it all.

I kind of, um, I do, I do a lot of writing lists for myself and, uh, for anyone listening in the podcast sphere, uh, the artist’s way is a thing that I recommend to people all the time. Not that I’ve ever completed it. I sort of pick it up and put it down, but I, I really attribute something to, to writing your goals down, even if they change every day of the week, but it’s making something that’s just in your head physical.

Uh, and I was doing that at a time of transition sort of, you know, going from, this is where I’m at now, where do I want it to be going? And on those lists, it kept coming up as I want to work internationally. I’ve got two passports. I want to be able to do that.

Uh, funnily enough, being a giant Canadian girl in Scotland, uh, it’s not really a casting bracket they’re looking for. Um, and I, again, I worked really hard and got to do some excellent acting work. Um, but nothing like even, even in the month I’ve been here, uh, the opportunity and the auditions and things like that, they just, they just weren’t there.

I mean, Scotland is a much smaller country anyways for that. Uh, so there was part of me that was really still wanting to see what else I could do as an actor and being in a better casting situation definitely helps. Um, and I also wanted to go international and it’s, it’s knowing that that will never happen unless you start making it for yourself.

So before family or mortgage or any of that kind of stuff, uh, really settled in when it was still almost acceptable to be completely broke and that was like cool and not like really sad. Um, I figured this is the time to do it. Uh, and I have enough stuff rolling in the UK that I get to sound really awesome by saying, I mean, I, I arrived in September and was here for about two and a half weeks to set up, then went back to Scotland and, uh, choreographed and got up a show.

Yeah. Uh, and then I’m back here and in January I’m going over and I’ll be doing, uh, working on a couple of shows and I might be doing a workshop and teaching. Um, and then I’ll come back here and do some and go back and forth.

So it’s nice to be able to do that. It’s like, that’s, I’m knocking, knocking on wood. Um, it, it hasn’t, uh, well it’s only just begun.

So, uh, yeah, it was the thought that maybe it could actually work. I mean, right now it feels a bit like I’m just unemployed in two countries, uh, and paying a tax for, for two nations right now. Um, I’ve not actually had to do a set of file, a set of taxes yet.

Um, and I’m sure I’m going to have many really interesting conversations with accountants between now and then. You are very likely to have some very interesting conversations. Um, the fortunate thing right now is, I don’t know if this is important, but I’ve got bank accounts that I keep separate.

So I’m not spending that money over here. Uh, and like, I, I’m hoping that’ll help. I don’t know.

Yeah. Um, talk to me in April. Yeah.

Um, with, with, um, the move back, you said that like you came back and you’ve been getting a lot more auditions than you were getting. Yeah. Yeah.

Uh, so again, um, I’ve been back and forth. I’ve got some really good friends in Toronto. Um, like Siobhan, our mutual friend who is terrific.

Uh, and so I’d come back and forth to visit and had sort of thrown this idea to, to her of coming and trying to be international, being in Toronto. Uh, and she sort of suggested, why don’t you throw your name out to a couple of agents, see if you can chat to So I did about this time last year, knowing I was coming the end of December. So that’s when everyone wants to be doing work is the end of December, of course.

Uh, and someone got back to me and said, yeah, I’d love to see you. And so I got to go in and I had a great meeting and they’ve been incredibly supportive in, in the time between December of last year and my arrival this year, really wanting me to be here and really positive and supportive so that, uh, I had my setup time, but officially arrived the 7th of October. Um, and they had me out the week after and I’ve already booked a commercial and I know it’s really exciting.

Uh, yeah. I mean, that that’s, it has it all going on. The auditions is part of the work.

Booking it is another part of the work. And all of that takes time. I mean, in my wise and old age being a haggard as I am.

Um, I mean, I’ve done this big jump. This is now my third time. So I know that it starts at the bottom again.

Uh, luckily for me, I I’m with an agent who is very clear that my bottom is not the same as a 21 year old’s bottom. That now sounds like I’m talking about something different. That’s, that’s not, not the way that meant to.

Yeah. But I think we understand what you mean is you have a body of work and things on your resume that, that are from somewhere else, but I’m sure that when you say that you were working in Glasgow and in Scotland, that it sounds very impressive. Oh, it sounds, you should see people’s eyes light up.

Uh, the wonderful thing actually in Scotland, Glasgow very specifically is they really encourage new work and making you new, making you work. Uh, which doesn’t have to be in the, uh, in that sort of conservative view of a play that has a director that has a, um, has a script that someone wrote in the same. So I’ve done a lot of creation and self-creation and devising projects.

Uh, and so that means I’m coming here and I’ve already been approaching people. So I’m hoping that it looks like in 2018, I’ll be getting to work and, and make work and develop some programs, um, and try and find ways of offering that up to people. Uh, there’s never money.

I mean, there’s no theatre world on the planet where everyone’s like, Oh, we have so much money to make our art. Uh, there’s wonderful ideas about like Germany where they pay their artists, uh, because it’s, um, it’s out of government funding, but it’s still not the same. Um, so what are the other things that you can offer when money is obviously, um, hard to come by? Uh, what are the other ways of support? And I’ve worked in a situation where sometimes that’s six of your friends sitting around a couple bottles of wine and reading someone’s script and then talking about it because what that does for that playwright or what that does for that, uh, direct potential director or, uh, actors wanting to see how it sounds with other people.

Yeah. You know, that’s, that’s a huge part that counts as development. So now when you apply for that project for the actual money, you can say you’ve done that development time and you have a, you’re that another step ahead.

Or if you can find space, then though people may be, uh, giving their time in kind as opposed to for a financial payout, what that means is you’re closer to a product and it’s the products that you sell. Unfortunately, right now, the process is not a thing that gets paid for, but retroactively it can. And, uh, in my quest for international status, uh, finding more that I can, that I can do here and take there and vice versa, uh, is really exciting to me is really exciting to me because likewise, uh, over in Scotland saying, Oh, I’m going off to work in Toronto.

That sounds great to them. Sure. You know, and eight years is a long time.

So there’s people that I know in Belgium and people I know in Sweden and in that same kind of, uh, the way you have a friend in New York, so you can go crash on their couch. You know, you have that friend in, in, I don’t know, Rome that you can say, well, I’ve got a show, there’s a festival. Can we crash in your couch? And, uh, again, I’m still young and stupid enough to think that’s a good time as opposed to like a couch.

I don’t know. Like, I kind of feel like if you’re doing a thing, especially if you made a thing, there’s like, you want to show it to people and you’re kind of, I think willing to do almost whatever it would take to be able to show it to people. Like sleep on a couch.

Yeah, I can do that. Sleep on a cot that will make my back hurt. Yeah, I can do that.

Well, it’s also when you’re, when you’re budgeting for things, if you can find a way that you are proposing a really reasonable budget, then those are all things that are seen on the other side of it as well. So, um, budgeting is like, I think accommodation is usually the last thing that people think of. Yeah.

And it makes a difference. I mean, I’ve worked jobs where the couch is totally not suitable because you’re doing physical work all day. So you need to sleep really well at night.

Uh, and likewise, I’ve done smaller projects where you get like a huge bed and I think you spent like this money would have been great to go into my pocket or to, uh, give us dailies. Right. So our food is paid for.

There’s, there’s all sorts of ways of, of bundling it around. Um, but more than anything, the only way that any of this happens is if you make it happen. Um, I, I, it would be wonderful to live in that world where there were fairy godmothers for all of us or back in the land of patron of the arts, where all you need is a cute smile and a charming personality.

And somebody would be, would give you all the money that you need, all the money that you need. Um, I just haven’t, maybe I’ve not found the right person or patron. I’ve from what I can see is that unless you’re very fortunate, the patrons are more interested in having their names on.

Uh, big placards outside opera companies and things like that. Well, you mentioned opera. Uh, it still happens with opera singers.

I know a couple who’ve been training over in Scotland and they work so hard. They work not to say that actors don’t, it’s a completely different discipline. Um, but the amount of vocal rest and the amount of rehearsal that they do and the way they use, I mean, you couldn’t send an opera singer to work in a bar because they’d just be trashing their, what they use to work.

Um, so I know that there are still a lot of programs for opera singers at a higher level, at least to support training and their first couple of years out. Um, which makes me super jealous, but, uh, but it’s, it’s also revered in that capacity. Opera is still sort of the highest status of all, all of the performative arts.

I would say I’m gonna, I feel like that might get backlash, but it still has a, I mean, there’s a certain people think, Oh, it’s just singing, but opera singing is not just singing. It’s like a full body singing. It doesn’t, it still exists in the world of melodrama.

It’s somehow survived. So they’re not just paring it back. So a black box in a black leotard on stage.

I mean, that’s never it. You go and you get to experience something really full and lush and that, uh, they create a world big enough that when these notes come out of bodies, it’s, it’s not shaking the scenery because there’s enough scenery to hold itself down. Yeah.

Now you were mentioning about how in, in Scotland, there’s like a real culture of making your own work. I think that’s something that’s growing here. Well, slowly, this is, uh, this is one of the things I’ve been asking about.

Um, it’s really cool to actually, to get, to be this agent coming to Toronto, because there are a handful of people that I either trained with or knew 10 years ago, or, you know, we did that crappy little play in that church basement or whatever that are stuck around by the, you know, skin of their teeth to, to be here. And now we’re making really interesting stuff. Um, yeah, which is, which is exciting.

And so I’ve been reconnecting with people and finding out where it’s at because on the whole Canada still has quite a conservative theatre scene, um, which I’m sure everyone widely accepts things coming out of French camp, French Canada, Montreal and Quebec, um, have a different energy about them. Um, there’s definitely a buzz in the UK for Quebecois playwrights and lots of translations and things, but, um, overarching, there’s a really solid, but still conservative, um, theatre scene, uh, says a blank, that’s a blanket statement that I’m brand new and hoping to be proven wrong on. Um, part of that also is because we’re such a baby country, as opposed to these places that have been, uh, making and creating and failing and are right next to each other to see things.

I mean, it’s not impossible to go to Germany to see a show and, you know, when you holiday in Portugal to see whatever’s happening there or festivals where these people are around each other all the time. Um, what is exciting is to come back and there’d be as many programs for new writing available. I don’t know how much they’re used.

I mean, I, I worked directly with playwrights and dramaturges quite a bit in Scotland. Uh, Playwrights Studio Scotland is one of the biggest supporters of, of work. And I mean, you can be Joe Schmoe off the street and walking saying, you have playwrights on your wall.

I want to be a playwright. And they will give you as much time as they would David Gregg, um, or, or some of the great playwrights that are working all the time, uh, so that you have the tools to see if you have stories to tell and the capacity to tell them. Um, and it would be exciting to see how much of that is here.

And so those are, those are things that I think, uh, I want to find for that community that might be existing here. Um, and if it’s not, uh, before my schutzpah runs out to try and, and start it up. I think, I mean, it’s interesting because I think that in, uh, at least in, in Toronto, which is the scene that I know, I know best.

Um, you have people who are pushing some boundaries and trying to do some really interesting things and you have people who, I mean, if I see another living room set, when I walk into a theatre, I just, you know what I’ve been, I’ve been guilty of it, but it’s like every play living room set it’s, you know? Yeah. Well, it’s like the joke that Canadian plays are about, excuse me, trees and rocks, trees and rocks and farms. Um, and that’s a place to start.

And what’s really cool in any theatrical movement has been that it starts in something that people get so frustrated with that they want to blow up. Um, actually the last living room set play that I saw, uh, in Scotland, it was in Edinburgh as part of the international festival. Um, I say name dropping cause that’s the thing I go to every year.

Um, and it started and it was, uh, I went with a couple of people and all of us felt really strange about watching this completely realistic, you know, three walls up and there were doors like in, and side tables that had coasters. I mean, the detail in this room, it was irritating because it was like walking into a showroom and you don’t see that very often. And it felt, um, excuse me, quite constrictive.

Uh, and it all was a massive payoff because, uh, in the very last scene, um, they have a massive fight and they like rip things off the walls. So paintings are pulled off the walls and those tables with the coasters are picked up and chucked and plants are smashed so that the final, the final picture is almost, the room almost became this character. Sure.

Interesting. Uh, I would love to see something like that. Yeah.

I would love to see something like that. A lot of times we, you know, we, things end up set in the living room because we don’t know where else to set them. Yeah.

But I, I, um, I think there’s so many outside the box ways of doing things. Um, one of, one of my favorite plays, which I, uh, hashed on people all the time, uh, in Glasgow is white biting dog. Um, because it’s so mad and it’s, uh, it’s one of those things that actually a lot of people sort of embraced going, oh yeah, we get that over in Scotland.

Whereas here you hand that to any designer and they’re like, wait, dirt living room. Uh, all these locations, how do we, um, so it’s just, uh, it’s part of that growth and part of that challenge. Um, and I’m sure there are not just, uh, new designers or new directors coming up, but old older ones or, or working ones that are wanting to go, well, let’s do something different.

Let’s, let’s see how much we can challenge an audience or how much can we go? They’re smart enough. They know that guy’s sitting down. So that can be his living room.

I really feel like, like, uh, and, and I, I, I sort of started developing some, a little more cynicism re after reading a book called theatre of the unimpressed. Really? Did that not set you up for, I went in, I went in, uh, with that book sort of like, oh yeah, you want to tell me this theatre is shit, you know? But it ended up, they ended up making some really good, good points about, and then really the author, uh, talks a lot about Canadian theatre specifically, but it could be, could be anywhere, but about how we’ve spent so much time crafting really well-made plays. And he always puts that in quotes, the well-made play where everything is paid off that you can almost bore an audience because they know that everything’s going to be paid off and they can usually guess how it’s going to be paid off and that we’ve bored our audiences.

And that’s why the hand-wringing about where our audience is going is caused by. Well, that again is an interesting thing in Canada because we’re a baby country, but the theatrical growth, the theatrical growth of the nation has been interrupted by technology because instead of having, uh, a culture of hundreds of years of people gathering to see theatre in, which in Europe has been going on because, uh, as a community builder, as a cultural accepted thing, whether you’ve got pantomimes at Christmas time, um, which is some people’s only reference to theatre, but they get what theatre is, uh, and want to go. It’s not like, I’m not going to pay my money on that.

I mean, people spend atrocious amounts of money to see really terrible panto and they love it. Um, so there’s, whether it’s that or really high brow art or really challenging different, uh, exploratory kind of work. I mean, that’s been happening over there, uh, as opposed to here, we just didn’t have that timeline as well as we’ve such a massive country.

So touring things becomes really difficult. Um, and the, the spread of the population means that you don’t have a mass closed market that it’s really accessible for, uh, which changes how, how you can grow. And so I think this, this just comes from when I was going through drama school, that it felt really like we were trying to train our audience and woo them a little bit.

And when you’re wooing someone, you don’t want to necessarily shock them or disturb them, uh, because you, you want them to come back. Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, and in the middle of that time, you know, in the time between now and when I was at drama school, which was two years ago now, um, slightly longer than that.

Uh, we now have, I mean, the internet exploded, uh, and there’s cameras on everything and there’s online personnel. I mean, the online personality thing is, is massive because you’ve got people who really understand that medium. Uh, some of whom are very theatrical, even though it’s an online web, web led, um, platform, I suppose.

Um, and it’s changing what our film and our cinema is doing as well, because, uh, it’s making us have to prove more that the professionals are actually professionals. Um, what that does for actually, for not making an unimpressed audience. I don’t know.

I think, I think with everything, it’s taking a chance. The horrible thing is you take a chance and you might lose all of your money. That’s in some cases, the thing that keeps people from taking those chances is the, yeah.

Not wanting to lose that money. So you go with what’s safe. What I get excited about in a, in a really hopeful, like the sun will come out tomorrow kind of way is that in these cycles that happen within, uh, within money and funding and all of that, because they do happen and the economy, um, the interesting stuff comes from the bottom comes from those people who go, well, we don’t have any money, but what we have is a great idea.

And so how much can we scrimp and pull together to chuck out there to do something? Um, you know, and that was the roots of things like in the Heights, which was what allowed only from looking at your sweater allowed Lin-Manuel Miranda to get just that little bit more of an edge to get something like Hamilton up. Like it was, it was not a Lloyd Webber produced production. Um, even more so, uh, something like you’re in town, uh, or Avenue Cute, like these things that started way, way, way, like they will have started in somebody’s basement.

Um, they’ll have started from a handful of people going, let’s, let’s take a look at this and see something like Blackwatch, which is one of the biggest, um, pieces of theatre that would come out of Scotland, uh, all about the Scottish regiment. Um, and if you ever get a chance to see it when it tours again, you should, because it’s, it’s an incredible piece of theatre. Uh, there’s almost no set in that.

And it was, you know, let’s see what we can do with nine guys in a room. Um, and, and then it just got big and got really exciting. So those are things that can happen.

Yeah. It, it takes, it takes people saying, instead of, oh, well, there’s no money. What can we do? It takes you going, okay, we’ve got no money.

So what else do we have? That’s actually something that I see a lot more in the, in the indie scene in Toronto is like just people like, we’re just going to make this happen and we’re going to do something interesting. The constraint of not being able to buy, to, to, to like throw all the money at a problem can really give you some very interesting solutions. Well, we see that in cinema all the time that the big projects that have all the money thrown at them can still suck terribly.

Um, and, and these little films that come out of nowhere, like what we do in the shadows, you know, uh, where it was a minuscule budget and every single penny of that went somewhere. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, and the project was just more realized and there was more, there was more heart and more need to tell that story than a superhero movie.

Take your pick. What’s interesting is, you know, you mentioned, you mentioned Hamilton. I saw recently somebody say that, that by all rights, that project should have been abandoned.

Like in terms of risk to say, we’re going to create a rap musical about this, yeah, the treasury secretary should have been like, somebody should have said no, like the money, there’s no way that that will ever make money, but the risk, like it was a complete risk and it paid off. Yeah. Well, uh, I think the time period we’re in right now really serves that if Hamilton had come up before in the Heights.

Oh, absolutely. I don’t, I don’t think that would have worked. No.

Um, I think there’s lots of things that are, uh, that are affording us different things. I mean, I, I remember being a drama kid, much younger, and I came out a couple of times with my mom to go to Stratford and the Shaw festival that I say still lovingly, um, because they were the biggest theatres in the country. I mean, some of them in North America, Stratford is amazing.

Um, and seeing things at such a big scale that you, uh, you want them just to be so, so good. Uh, and the difference between something that is so perfectly good and something that’s scrappy and has tons of mistakes in it, mistakes, things that aren’t perfect. Uh, and where the heart comes within that.

Um, it’s, and it’s changed even more so because it in the 15 years since then, I can see a change in the faces that I’m seeing on those stages. Um, and the directors, and casting, um, I’m really, uh, really disappointed that I didn’t get to see last year’s season. Um, and finding gender blind and color blind and just more interesting casting.

I, uh, from what I understand, they’re working really, those big festivals are working really hard to do that. I think they are. I think they are.

They’re doing what they’re doing as much. I mean, I think that there are always people who say they can do more and they probably could do more, but the fact that the, the faces that we see on this street, on the stage are there are starting to more accurately match the faces that we see on the street. Yeah.

Is a great thing. Well, and I can say that from the audition rooms that I’ve been in, that’s a really exciting thing to see. Um, and we’re not going to be able to see it overnight.

I, I think in 10 years from now, it’ll be enough of a difference from 15 years ago that that’ll be the telling point. Um, I, uh, started working and creating a company in Scotland. The part of the impetus behind it was so that women, young women going through drama school, when you’re looking for those monologues, when you’re looking for those exciting characters, when you’re looking for those scene studies of which there are so few that don’t talk about a man or have you crying or begging or, uh, prostituting yourself, um, that can, can give full and incredible story.

Like that was one of the things we can create those works. Tell those new stories. Uh, we’re lucky that we’re at a time where I think I’m pretty sure it’s universal that everyone can say, okay, there’s a big inequality.

There have been crap roles for women, uh, people of color, indigenous people, like where are these stories? I think everyone can universally say that’s an issue. So let’s accept that and start shouting that out and let’s just make the work. Let’s just tell those new stories.

Absolutely. I think, I think one of the things, I mean, you having, having recently come back, you, uh, you, you may not have experienced the ever present, uh, diversity panel, um, which we have, um, every so often somebody will put together a panel on diversity and get some people of color to talk to the room about diversity and its importance. And we’re still having the conversation and sort of not doing a whole lot about it.

In some cases I can look at factory theatre and factory headed by Nino Liachino is like very much like people of color, like women playwrights, women directors and people of color is like, because the artistic director being a person of color has a vested interest. But we’ve rightly taken a Canadian stage company to task for many years about their lack of diversity, both on stage and off. Um, but it’s, it’s something that almost always at least once or twice a year we have the panel.

Sometimes we see the same people on all of the panels and they’re tired of having the conversation, but they feel like they have to keep having the conversation. Well, and right now we do. Um, I have had many conversations with my white male friends who feel like they, you know, they couldn’t pay to be cast in something right now.

Um, but that’s, those are the ones who aren’t working. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s when you’re not working and when you’re, you feel like, Oh, there are like, and I’ll, I will, I will see statements by people, not necessarily in theatre, but generally that being a white male is a very difficult thing right now.

And I’m still like, no, it’s not. Well, it’s comparative, um, to what it was 10 years ago or even five years ago when equality is, and this is one of those things like when equality starts to happen and your privilege is taken away, that can feel like inequality, but it’s really just like things evening out. And, uh, I would say across the board, not just within theatre, um, having diversity policies, uh, is maybe not a perfect answer that, you know, it almost looks like you need one of every crayon in the Crayola box in order to make it, but it’s a start.

And this is the thing, because in order to actually make the change, you have to offer those opportunities because you’ve got actor white actors in their thirties and forties who have had all these opportunities because they’ve had the last 15, 20, 25 years of building a resume and people of color at the same age, you haven’t had that opportunity because there hasn’t been a maid role or the local drunk, or, I mean, some of these roles are so terribly written, uh, that I, yeah, I look at that and I go, well, you can’t judge from a resume anymore who, who is more talented. Uh, just like in any company, you can’t tell from a resume who would be the best person for the job just because they’ve got, you know, so many of having worked there, worked at that place because, uh, yeah, there’s more to it than just what’s on the paper. Um, and I think we are working towards more equality.

There’s more, uh, again, I haven’t been here for, for, well, I haven’t been here before really in, in the Toronto scene. Um, it’s a very whitewashed scene in Scotland. Um, Scotland as a country doesn’t, it’s still predominantly white.

Um, there are a lot of, uh, Afghani and Pakistani East Indian, uh, people who live there. Um, I know walking down the street, it’s not that you see all white people. Um, but the, the diversity just is nothing in comparison to Toronto.

I mean, but size wise, you also look at that as well. Uh, and trying to find a way of encouraging, encouraging people to tell their stories when they’re from different cultures, uh, is a really interesting thing. And I, I have a, a couple of friends who felt like the token colored person in projects, but, uh, it’s interesting.

The ones who then switch that and say, well, I’ve been the token person and that’s got me this opportunity. So now I’m going to stand up and I’m going to make this. And I’m going to talk about the fact that, you know, in 10 families, only one of them may be of color, but that’s still one family that needs to tell their story.

Sure. Absolutely. I think it’s, I think it’s interesting because, you know, you, you, you’re, you’re mentioning, you know, you haven’t been here, but now you get to look at our scene with an outsider’s eye and ask questions that are important to ask that maybe somebody who’s been here hasn’t asked because that’s just the way it is.

And they’ve, they’ve known it as that way. And we need to be challenged in a lot of ways. I, um, yes, I agree.

I don’t, I don’t know where to, uh, what to say with that. I, in a very like making new friends kind of way, instead of meeting new people, but making new friends, I’ve been trying to put myself in positions where I may not know anyone in the room and do that really eggy thing of saying I’m new in town. Uh, what do you do? Can I ask you how you do that as, as a person who’s introverted? Oh man.

As a person who’s not introverted. It’s yeah. The idea of that, like just right now I’m thinking about it and I really want to breathe into a paper bag.

Just at the thought of doing that. Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s a funny thing right now.

That’s one of the things I definitely think about is how as a 34 year old, do I make new friends? Like, do you want to go ride bikes? That’s like the, the, one of those questions. It’s like, so you, you know, upheaval happens in your life. You move to a new place or you break up with somebody.

What do you do? Like, how do you meet people? Yeah. Um, yeah, I, I’m lucky because I, uh, I like a good story. So I’ll try most things once, so I’ll get the story out of it.

Um, which is different now that I’ve been here for about six weeks because I’ve done a handful of things once. Um, and it’s how these new people, how you say that, like, we had a great time. We’ll be friends on Facebook and then sending that next message to try and do something else.

Um, I would say if, I mean, if you are introvert, go with a buddy, but find the right buddy. Cause if you’re the two buddies who just sit and drink wine in the corner, uh, that’s great, but you could have done that anywhere. Yeah.

Yeah. You need to have the buddy. That’s like going to be the person who you need.

The introvert needs to go with an extrovert so that the extrovert will like interact with people. And also the right way. Um, I, nobody likes networking that terrible word.

Um, and again, one of the things that I, I had found in Scotland was places where you could meet other people and see their work and, and have an acknowledgement that we’re all in the business without it feeling like networking. Um, and there was a, there was a program called staged page, which was the best at that. And it was set at a bar, but not a theatre bar.

And again, it was with Playwrights Studio Scotland. We’re part of the, the, uh, group organizing it. And it just had a relaxed feeling, I think, because it wasn’t run by the extroverts.

It was run by playwrights who a lot of the time are a little bit awkward talking in front of people Um, so everyone could just chill out and, uh, finding ways of doing that. I, for myself, I acknowledge how weird and strange it is that I feel, uh, what we forget is probably 80% of the people there also feel weird and strange and everyone has coping mechanisms. Um, the, so what are you working on question? Everyone asks it because you don’t know what else to say.

That’s why everyone hates answering it, but everyone asks it. Yeah. And you know, it’s, uh, I, you know, as you say that, I’m like, yeah, I hate answering that question.

And yet if I’m in the room, that’s the question I’m going to ask. Yeah. So, uh, as an experiment, I have tried what has brought you joy lately? Okay.

Uh, or, um, what are you watching these days or, um, you know, tell me something you’re excited about. Just an attempt to get them out of that is really talking to people about relationships like, oh, how did you meet that person that you’re with is a great way. Cause people will talk about that for ages unless it’s the end of a relationship, at which point you realize really quickly.

And you’ll probably hear too much about the end of that. Um, but it’s a thing that I’m trying to do, especially because here they can tell me what they’re working on, but I don’t know. I don’t really know what that means.

Um, I also, uh, I also see people that when they’re just talking about their work, it’s usually because they’re just scared shitless. Oh, absolutely. Yeah.

Um, one of the things that I’ve often, you know, ever so often I think, it would be great if there was like a place where we can, like, I dunno, a cheers for, for theatre people. Like we could go and like, you know, that there’s going to be people there and maybe, um, there’s, they have a board game night. And so everybody’s asking like, what’s, you know, what are you working on? Everybody’s like, so what game are we playing tonight or something like that? You know, just a place to go and build community, which is something we don’t often get to do.

Yeah. I, I think Toronto is a really big city as just as far as size. One of the biggest things that I’ve been experiencing thus far, uh, is how long it takes to get places.

Um, and the transit system is great. No matter what people complain about, the transportation system here is really good. We love to complain.

Just, this is what we do in Toronto. We’re complaining about the weather. Yes.

It’s too hot, too cold. We’re complaining about the TTC. We love to complain about the TTC.

People do, uh, A, none of you have lived in Calgary or if you have, holy all things good. Um, it’s yeah, it’s good here. It, it just is what it is.

It’s a public transportation system. That’s what it is. There are things beyond their control sometimes.

Yeah. Um, yeah. So, uh, uh, getting from one place to another place is often difficult, but things like Facebook are great for that.

That’s a terrific idea, Phil. I think, uh, whether it be at some pub that’s your local, throw it out to 15 of your friends and say, bring a friend. Yeah.

That’s how it starts. Yeah. We can do, we can go to Snakes and Lattes.

Do you know Snakes and Lattes? I have heard about Snakes and Lattes, but I’ve not been there yet. You have to go. Yeah.

That’s what I hear from everybody. Um, so as we start to close, I have to ask you one question. Is that a Star Trek, uh, communicator pin on your finger? Uh, as a tattoo? Yes, it is.

Um, my brother and I have matching ones. Uh, so we always have each other’s coordinates. Oh my God.

I know it went, it went from geeky to like, pretty cool. Yeah. Um, yeah, I have to say it’s, it’s been one of the things in so many of my auditions so far that’s been talked about.

It was really scary as an actor to get a hand tattoo. Oh shit. Yeah.

Um, but I really dig it. Um, and it was one of the things when I was moving here that I talked to my agent about and said, so Star Trek, how about that? Um, did you say Star Trek get me on that show that shoots in Toronto? I mean, those, all of those words were involved in that. I mean, who wouldn’t, right? Exactly.

I would be pressed to meet the person who was like, I do not want to be on Star Trek. Of course. I don’t know who that person is.

I don’t want to know them. Yeah. Take a hike.

Yeah. Um, yeah, but it’s, uh, funnily enough, um, boldly go, I worked for, uh, the Shakespeare company in Glasgow, which are their, um, summer rep Shakespeare and one of the big themes of the company is be bold, be brave. Um, so there’s something in that shit that, that Star Trek message in there as well.

Do they, uh, does that like a conversation started? Do people point it out a lot of the time or do people just sort of like clock it and like, oh, okay. No, I judge people if, I mean, you either you’re in or you’re out. It’s, there are very few people who are lukewarm about it.

And I kind of like, no, I don’t really care. They’re either like, really? Do you really meet people who are like, oh, Star Trek? I’ve met a couple. I mean, they’re not people I’m friends with.

Why would you want to be friends with those people? Right. Um, but I did actually last summer while I was working at the rep in Glasgow, um, at a coffee shop, there’s a certain coffee shop that I went to that the first, uh, during rehearsals, the first time I went in the barista was like, is that, is that a Star Trek? I was like, yeah, yeah, it is. And I got discounts on my, on everything.

I was like, Hey, this, this works for me. It’s, uh, it’s also one of those, um, universal bonders. Yeah, it is.

Well, it’s like nerds when we, when we recognize each other and people are like, have a thing, we, we, we clock it and we go. Yeah. And I, and it’s gentle enough that it, uh, doesn’t immediately require extensive knowledge.

So it’s, uh, it’s not like seeing some of the obscure Harry Potter, like casted spells, tattoos, a friend of mine got one of those. And I was like, I feel like you’re alienating. Yeah, exactly.

Like, I’m like, if I go to fan expo and somebody is dressed in as an obscure anime, that’s a test or like who is nerdy enough to know that they’re my friend. But it’s like, no, it’s just like, get a simple Harry Potter tattoo that everybody’s going to recognize. And then everybody can be like, yes.

Yeah. I see you. I feel, uh, yeah, I feel it at home amongst that level of geekdom.

Sometimes I, uh, was fortunate enough to find a group of people here that will let me come along and watch Star Trek with them, the new discovery. And after the very first two episodes, uh, we had a 45 minute discussion, which turned into the entire Star Trek canon, uh, and the connections to the current, uh, the current program and, uh, the progression of the cultures and the different, uh, alien races with them. And it was one of those very intriguing things that within about two minutes of that conversation, I was like, I am out of my depth.

I may be the one that tattooed this on my body, but this is not a conversation I can, I can’t compare the, those ship logistics to that forensic. There are levels of nerddom of nerdiness that I, I like that goes beyond my, like some of this stuff, like themes, things like that. I can get into that.

But if we’re going to talk about like the minutia of like the ships I’m out. Yeah. But how wonderful that it’s created a world that people are so excited about.

I mean, one of my favorite things about the human race is that Klingon is a language that people know. It’s true. And, and people learn and continue to learn, uh, because it was made up, but something within this idea that Gene Roddenberry had that was made into a program caught people, they got it.

Uh, and I love that. I love that. Um, and those are the little sparks you want to start with people because it gives you joy.

It gets you excited. And it’s an interesting talking point. Um, especially if you find those gems of people who can talk back and it’s, that’s a little bit of magic.

Nerddoms are great that way when you can find your group. Yeah. Yeah.

Your tribe. Um, and you don’t have to have just one. No.

And that’s the, that’s the great thing about a little bit of geekiness as it goes a long way. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And find your interest and see what they, this is another thing I, because I, I teach a lot, um, in the UK and a lot of university students and drama school students. Uh, and the biggest thing I tell them all the time is find the thing that you really enjoy, not something that you can sell, but something that you dig and gets you excited.

If it is pole dancing or if it is roller skating, or if it is obscure anime or if whatever it is, find something that still can bring you a lot of joy that you just love because chances are that will serve you in a different way. I mean, my ridiculous idea to be a superhero has turned into something that I can use, and I am grateful for that all the time. But also, uh, the fact that I said yes to a group of pals in Calgary to start a children’s theatre company has led me working, uh, with a company in Scotland, creating early years theatre for under four-year-olds and their families, and having a real understanding of that, that age group as an audience.

Um, but also as little people that you’re forming and creating work for them, you know, which is a thing I do as well as Shakespeare, as well as, you know, contemporary theatre, as well as killing zombies, you know, and, and, uh, you can’t shut yourself off to that. If you don’t find your joy in your excitement, not to say that you have to be airy, flarey, you know, I’ve, I’ve quite a few people who describe themselves as very serious, but if it’s the kind of thing that you, you want to read another page about, or, uh, you’d love to get into a conversation about, then you got to find that. You got to keep it in your life.

What I find interesting is as you’re listing off all the things that you’ve sort of been involved with is just, it sort of illustrates for me how the being in theatre has changed. Oh, yeah. Because when I was in theatre school, they were, they were, their entire idea is that they were training us to go to the audition and get the job, do the job, go to the next audition, get that job.

And that would be your career. Wouldn’t that be lovely. And yet now, but at the time, the idea was like, if you had to do something else, you were a failed actor.

Yeah. But now it’s accepted that you could be a fight director. You could create a children’s theatre.

You could be a playwright. You could be an actor. Oh, the number of, the number of people I’ve had conversations with about, um, I don’t want them to think I’m just that.

I want them to know I’m an actor. I mean, it’s pretty much understood in this business that anyone at any given point in time has been an actor at some point. And if they really wanted you in something, they turn around and ask you, uh, you know, Harrison Ford was a janitor.

It’s a, it’ll come up if you’re the right person for it, it’ll come up. And if people are only thinking of you as the fight director or is this, or is that, uh, as the grip onset or the sound tech. Um, it’s probably because you’re doing a really good job at that point in time for that particular project, which is what you’re supposed to be doing.

Yeah. In the end, a lot of times they want you as that thing. Cause they know they can get another actor.

Well, a lot of times they’re like, I can get an actor. You’re really good at this thing. That’s true.

Um, and what I can say from being in that position is, well, then it’s my job to find opportunities for myself and to keep that going. It’s, it’s no one else. Your, your career is no one else’s responsibility.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Um, just like your enjoyment of life is not anyone else’s responsibility and, uh, and that’s tough and different personalities work with it better than others.

Um, I think at the heart of it, you have to find the balance of what, what you can sustain while it sustains you. Um, I, I am fortunate because I like doing lots of things. Uh, and I’m also a person who says yes, um, or I’ve never done that.

So I’ll try that. And, uh, I think a lot of that comes from an improv background as well, which terrified me when I first started. Sure.

Um, and then became like, Oh, thank goodness. This will save my career because you, you just say yes and keep going with it. Uh, which is great for those people who are just waiting for that audition.

Um, I mean, how great to, to have that specific focus on it. Um, as long as it doesn’t fall into a place of desperation. I know some brilliant actors who do, who have just that focus and can do that.

And that’s great. Um, that opportunity didn’t present itself to me to, to fall into the lap of, of that happening. Um, and I, you know, maybe this’ll be it.

It’s funny because, uh, I, you know, when I started and I, you know, when I got out of theatre school, I really squandered a lot of time, anxiety and things like that kept me from going to another hour about anxiety. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it can be really, yeah.

But later on I discovered how much I really, I really enjoy like making my own work and how fulfilling that is. And that, and so that, that sort of became like a focus for me is like, that’s what I want to do is make stuff on my own. Well, and this is the cool thing.

There was a, there was a venue in, in Glasgow for a long time called the arches that was internationally known and it was, uh, inside the old train tunnels, um, in Glasgow central. So it was right downtown, like the easiest access point for everybody. Um, and in these big old dingy, dirty tunnels, uh, where they had, I think six of them and some of them were, were fit into smaller studio spaces and some are bigger.

Uh, and the whole venue was this mastermind brainchild that functioned as an arts venue as well as being a club. So, uh, if you go to Europe, people across the continent know about the arches and going there to party. Uh, and those massive club nights that had DJs from all around the world would then fund the club enough to run the venue so that opportunities were there for making your own work and for, uh, wild and crazy and interesting and innovative and challenging and dangerous and risky and, uh, and just like the babies of ideas to be tried out.

And they were so supportive of new artists and you, and you can get in there and do that. Uh, and I’m so grateful that I got to experience that. I mean, uh, there’s so many things I loved about being in Scotland, but that as a, as like something that changed me as a theatre person, a theatre person, as a person in the arts, I think, um, was there because not only did they give that opportunity, the artists, which is great.

There was an audience who came and saw those things and the audience wasn’t just your friends. Like there, there were just people who’d say, I wonder what’s on the art at the arches tonight. And they go down and buy their ticket for four exploratory pieces over the evening.

Uh, one of which would be, I don’t know, like Tibetan throat singing. One of which would be some crazy modern dance. Invariably someone would be peeing in a cup and then you might see like a piece of genius that was messy around it, but also something was there.

And, uh, and you could see that process of people trying to make stuff. And then you could also see the inklings of things. I mean, I saw a scratch performance of a show that’s now toured all over Scotland and the woman who created it, uh, is currently in Copenhagen studying, you know, from that moment has created this, uh, this sort of other part where she’s working with National Theatre Scotland.

Like it’s just, it’s such a cool thing from throwing some stuff together and giving it a shot and putting in front of an audience and an audience showing up. And that’s one of those things that I, uh, I hope to be able to find. And I mean, there’s, because Toronto is a newer city, it doesn’t have a thing like that.

And again, the population density, because we’re not all shoved together, uh, you may feel like you are, but we’re really not. We’re not because we’ll have people who are like, Oh, I won’t cross the Don Valley, you know, like people who are like in their area. And it just seems like so far to go to the beaches to go to, or to Leslieville to go to the Red Sand Castle, Parkdale to go to the assembly.

Totally. These things just seem so far away. And it’s, uh, and it’s finding a way to make them feel less far away.

Um, I think when eventually that new line, I live just North of Eglinton. So when that new line is built, I think it’ll change the world until then. Eglinton’s a terrible place to be.

I actually lived there for like the last three and a half years. So I know like for the last year and a half it’s been, Eglinton’s terrible. Yeah.

I mean, I’m far enough away that I don’t have to see it every day. Uh, but as soon as it’s sorted out, it’ll change things. It’s going to change a lot of things because suddenly things are going to be connected in a way.

Yeah. Yeah. Uh, which will make a difference.

But as far as, as venues, I’m still, um, like the Harborfront is really interesting because it always seems to have different stuff on and it makes it quite accessible. Um, I haven’t seen a lot here yet because I’ve, uh, I’ve had setting up costs and 50 bucks or 70 bucks to go see a night of theatre feels expensive. It’s a lot of money.

It’s a lot of money. And I find that a lot of theatres are not, if they do pay what you can, they’re not advertising it anymore. It used to be that you knew that on, for some theatres, there’s something about, and they always pay what you can.

And for other ones, their Tuesday night was a pay what you can. And you just knew. And now I don’t see that so much anymore.

And I can understand that because everyone’s funding is cut. And so, I mean, that, that isn’t a dig at them. It’s just finding the, the way to make it accessible for people.

But there also isn’t a venue where, um, or what I’m looking for is, is a place where you can put stuff together and it doesn’t have to feel polished where people can come and watch. Um, We really like polished stuff here. Like, uh, the friends festival is sort of an example of that, where it should be a spot where you can do stuff that it might be a little, a little rough, a little messy and it’s not perfect yet.

Um, and in some other places, like if you go to the Montreal fringe, you know, they eat that up. But in, in Toronto, we want it done. We want it perfect.

Um, that’s a thing that I’m going to play with and see, uh, and see what I can set up an offer because it’s not even, I mean, if you’re paying 70 bucks, then you want to see something polished. If you’re paying 10 bucks, like what does it hurt if it’s not perfect? Yeah. Like let somebody experiment.

You need more, more opportunities for that. Um, and because what that also does is it creates bravery, not just the chance to do it, but for someone doing that, realizing that the building hasn’t started on fire, uh, and that they have feedback to go and take whatever turd they laid and polish it a little bit. Well, that’s the thing is that a lot of times, you know, something will fail at like a fringe.

We were like, well, that was garbage. I’m never touching that again. And they throw it away.

Whereas instead, if there was more freedom to experiment, we could, you know, you could polish that turd and then like figure out what was good and what wasn’t. Yeah. And I think, I think that’s audience on both sides because it’s, uh, I think it’s finding the creative communities to support that and taking away the pretension of it.

I mean, I’m, I, I hold my hands up and say, I’m a very pretentious person. I’ve paid a lot of money for my pretension. So, but, uh, there’s a difference.

There’s a difference between crap because people don’t care and something that’s in process with people who do care and, uh, that kind of enthusiasm that you can have about your best friends piece, even if it’s not quite there yet. If you can find a little bit of that for the community around you. I mean, I get the so hopefully not going too far Pollyanna with it, but I would, I would really like to meet and explore and make crap and sometimes really terrible stuff and stuff that then gets better or, you know, you keep trying it from different angles.

And then at the end of it, you can either say, yeah, that was a great thing, or we know for sure we will never do that again. But that’s the kind of thing takes, takes the time to, to, to polish, to, to practice, to, to work out the kinks. Um, but, uh, maybe that’s the thing that I can offer is because I’ve still got that new energy.

Um, I was joking with a friend back home that I figure I’ve got six months of being new girl where like you stick your hand out to the wrong person and go, Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry. I’m new.

I didn’t know. Um, so I figure I’ve got about six months of, of new girling it. So if I do things wrong, it can be like, Oh, well, why don’t we give it a shot anyways? Yeah.

And just see if it takes, absolutely. You should use that. Um, there’s, there’s a couple of things.

Uh, there’s a couple of things in the pipeline. So hopefully I’ll send you a message back being like, Hey, this is happening now. I want to hear about that.

Yeah. Are you on, uh, aside from Facebook, which you mentioned, are you on, uh, Twitter, Instagram? I am on Instagram. I just joined this summer.

I feel so old during this summer and I love it very much. Uh, as MC Breitling. Okay.

Um, and I’m not on Twitter and you have a website and I have a website, which is EmmaClaireBreitling.com. Um, which I have to update more often, but it’s, uh, if you found this interesting, you can find out more about me at www.EmmaClaireBreitling.com. Um, and for the most part that has links to what I’m up to, um, on both sides of the ocean, uh, and clips to things I’ve worked on and, and stuff like that. Great. Well, thank you so much.

This has been a lot of fun. This has been great. So nice to meet you.