Lucy Eveleigh
Lucy Eveleigh is the Executive Director of the Toronto Fringe Festival, and has been the Managing Director of the Toronto Fringe for the last five years, after two years as the General Manager for the SummerWorks Performance Festival and three years as the General Manager of the Pleasance Theatre in London, England. Her extensive knowledge of theatre administration and company management, and her passion for the mandate of the Fringe movement, make her the ideal candidate to lead this organization into its 30th year and beyond.
Toronto Fringe
https://fringetoronto.com/
@Toronto_Fringe
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Transcript
Welcome to episode 104 of Stageworthy, I’m your host Phil Rickaby. Stageworthy is a podcast about people in Canadian theatre featuring conversations with actors, directors, playwrights and more. If you want to drop me a line you can find Stageworthy on Facebook and Twitter at StageworthyPod and you can find the website at Stageworthypodcast.com. My guest this week is Toronto Fringe Executive Director Lucy Eveleigh.
I had the pleasure of talking to her at the fringe offices just shortly after she was named as the Executive Director. What is the difference between the Managing Director and the Executive Director? The Managing Director is really involved with the everyday hands-on experience of the festival, so it’s all, well the company not just the festival, so I deal with all the staff, I deal with all the artists, I deal with the everyday basically of the festival, whereas the Executive Director is much more like the big picture looking at grants, sponsorship, foundations and also just sort of the vision of where is the company going, what’s happening, you know, so it’s more, there’s hopefully more time to sort of be in the moment and figure out the, yeah, the sort of blue sky thinking of where the fringe is heading. It must be really difficult to do both jobs because they’re two very different headspaces.
Yeah, it is, but I also think I’ve been really lucky because I’ve been in the organisation for five years, I know, I know the fringe, so I’m not, so you know, and Kelly and I work very collaboratively, the whole office works collaboratively, so it means that moving into this position I’m not sort of, I’m not figuring it all out in the first instance, I know so much, so now I actually, once somebody’s in the position of Managing Director then I can, I think I’ll have the time to be able to think about the big picture stuff and have the space to really, because I’m not, I’m not having to learn about the organisation as if I was somebody new, yeah. That’s good, so you’ve been with the organisation for five years and you started juggling these two jobs, do you remember your first fringe experience? Yeah, I did a fringe show. Okay.
Yeah, back in, oh god, I don’t know, it was when, what was it called, it was the record store that is now a Dollarama, right on Bloor and Bathurst, what was it, Sonic Boom, was it Sonic Boom? So there was a basement in Sonic Boom and myself and a bunch of improvisers did a show called Eight Feet Under, which was based on the TV show Six Feet Under, which I had never seen at the time, that didn’t apparently matter, and we did, yeah, a site-specific show, or back then it was Bring Your Own Venue, I guess, yeah. So that, and that was that, like, when you first did that, did you know that you’d be going into arts administration? Did you have any idea? No, I mean, back then I was just, just an actor, I was being an actor, so no, I didn’t, at that point I was still fully kind of committed to that and then because I moved back and forth from Canada to England, I started, I got involved with the Pleasants in England, which runs a venue in Edinburgh and London and, and that’s when I sort of got into arts admin and it sort of went from there, I started off as their marketing and box office person and then I moved into the general management position there and then I just really loved it, I really liked being in a fringe environment on the other side of it, you know, being a part of it as an actor is, is phenomenal as well, but I just found I got a lot out of it as well creatively, I think, being on the other side of the, the stage. Can you, can you speak to the, what was creative for you about, because most people when they think about arts administration, they don’t think about that as the, as a creative part.
Well, I think there’s just, there’s creativity in figuring out, like, how best to run a festival, right, like, because you’re, you’re thinking about it not just in business terms, although obviously that’s a huge part of it, but you’re thinking about ways to make it interesting and innovative and, and have a, for the artist to have a, an incredible experience and having done it on that side as well, I know what to, what’s important. I think there’s a creativity in building a team and getting the right personalities to sort of mesh together and come up with ideas and, yeah, there’s a lot of creativity, especially with, you know, fringe, with the auxiliary events and the fringe club and trying to make that, like, that’s our creative part, right, trying to make a hockey rink into an exciting outdoor patio that people are going to want to spend time in, so that’s creative. How do you feel like that went this year? It was great.
It was the first time in the new, yeah, in the new space. Yeah, it was great. We, I think all of our expectations were surpassed in many ways because we had no idea if we, what it would be like to be in that space and, you know, the team transformed that space into something really quite beautiful and the community welcomed us.
People that didn’t know about the fringe were sort of like, what’s going on over there? And so we need more of that. We’re pushing that, you know, I think it’s important for us to position the fringe club as, as an event, right, as an outdoor patio, as this opportunity for people to come together, not just artists, but people of, of the city to come and sit in this really nice space, watch some free entertainment, mingle with artists, mingle with each other, go and see a show. So I think that we really want to kind of push that as a, you know, a free 12 day event basically.
Well, I think that’s, I mean, that’s kind of important because I know, I know people who, who have felt like they can’t, they feel like they’re not welcome at the fringe club. To them, they feel like, oh, it’s for the artists. I know.
I was just having this conversation the other day and I think it’s, you know, I, I like the fact, and I think it did have that kind of feel of like a bit cliquey and I can see how people might be intimidated walking into that space. And so for us, it’s a challenge to, to still make sure that the artists feel like this is their home and they, you know, they are our priority always, but that, yeah, we want to welcome everybody in the community and it benefits the artists to have those people and to welcome those people because they’re going to be able to sell their show to them, which is ultimately what we want. So, so finding ways to, yeah, to make it a space where anybody can feel like they can walk in, that’s our, that’s our challenge.
And now we’re in this more exposed area, really pushing that to get people to come in and, and, you know, see that first and then go, oh, this is also a festival. Great. You know, that’s the scatting area is a little more in the open, whereas the, the Honest Ed space sort of felt like it was a walled in.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
What’s interesting for me is, is like when I’ve gone to other fringes, because every fringe is different and how some fringes, um, they’re kind of like Toronto where the artists space, the artists and the, the people, the audience is mixed together at the fringe club and in other places there’s like the fringe club is for the patrons and the artists find some other place. A very strange, but it’s also means that the, the fringe club never becomes like an inside baseball sort of thing where the patrons can be there and do their thing and the artists sort of mingle, but they don’t, they’re not there schmoozing. Yeah.
Have you had, aside from the connection with Edinburgh, have you, have you had a lot of connection or been to other fringes outside of Toronto? Um, no, no, I have connections through because Toronto Fringe is part of CAF, which is the Canadian Association of Fringe Festivals. Um, and so it’s my goal to try and get to some of them. It’s so hard because, you know, the fringe season basically starts with Orlando essentially, and then goes all the way through to September and into that starts in sort of, oh no, excuse me, Frigid Festival starts in February, I think in New York.
And then we go all the way through to Vancouver, I think is one of the last ones in September. And so as of February, we’re so busy with fringe, it’s really hard for us to, to go anywhere. And then by the time fringe is done, sort of the last thing you want to do is go to another fringe.
But I do really want to go, I want to see Winnipeg and I want to see Edmonton because there are contemporaries really in terms of size and scope. Um, we have conversations, I know that, that, you know, that everybody that runs those festivals. And so we have lots every year, we have a conference coming up in November.
So every year we get together and we talk about each other’s fringes, but to actually kind of go and experience them, it just hasn’t been possible yet. It’s really like, and if you, having come from the Toronto fringe, when I went to Winnipeg and Edmonton and the experience of saying, I’m in the fringe and having everybody know what that meant. Whereas in Toronto, even people who know me, I’m saying, so I’ve got a show in the fringe and they’re like, what’s the fringe? And that’s, I think one of the hardest things to combat in this city.
Yeah. I mean, Toronto is obviously, it’s great because there is so much to do. There’s so much going on.
So to take over a city like Winnipeg does, it’s just, you know, the competition is much more fierce here in Toronto, but that’s certainly, that’s a lot of the conversations we’ve been having recently, um, is about making this more accessible to the greater Toronto, right? And so this year we are, we’re launching extra site-specific spaces to sort of reach out geographically speaking across the city and see if we can create some sort of satellite venues to, to peak people’s interests and hopefully get them to come down to the sort of hub. But, and also, you know, it’s, it’s marketing spend, right? Like we, we’re a non-for-profit charitable organization. We don’t take bucks off as revenue.
So it’s, you know, unfortunately, sometimes marketing is where the money gets cut and then it’s, it’s hard for us to put that message outside of our sort of the parameters that we have. I think we did a great job this year with, you know, really increasing the branding and we, we updated our branding. So that was a big part of it, but certainly that’s where I’d be looking to sort of push the fringe in terms of getting our name out there.
Did you see generally this year an increase in attendance generally? Yes. In, yeah, we did for, we, I think it was our best selling year on record. Um, so yeah, attendance was great.
The fringe club suffered because of the rain. Um, we had, we had more than usual. And also we had the threat of bad weather.
And as you know, it’s, it’s totally, it’s, I think people make up their minds in the morning to go, Oh, it’s going to rain. It’s going to thunderstorm, whatever. So they stay at home.
Um, so, you know, if, if it’s the same with next stage coming up as well, we really have to push those pre-sales because once people have a ticket in hand, they’re more likely to come, you know, in the dead of winter, when next stage is happening, if we haven’t done those pre-sales, then it’s tougher to get people to come out. And it’s the same, even during fringe with the rain, that’s something that we have to sort of push is the, is getting people to commit early. So, so, but having said that, yeah, attendance to the, to the actual shows was up this year.
So that’s great. I mean, it’s also helpful, I mean, for the artists that, that people can, can buy online in a way that they, they couldn’t, I mean, there are people, I remember the first year when people could buy a hundred percent of showing up. Yeah.
I’m sure that you heard about that. Oh yeah. It is really good for the artists.
It’s great for the artists and it’s, you know, it’s the way of the world, right? Like it’s, it’s, um, and I think the, the problem was that people sort of thought because a hundred percent of the tickets were available in advance that it meant it would be a hundred percent would be sold out. Unfortunately, the truth is, you know, a small fraction of shows actually sell out. So there’s nearly always tickets at the door of a venue aside from the smaller site specifics or the smaller venues, you know.
Um, but yeah, it encourages people to plan and to make, you know, and there’s still lots of spontaneity at the fringe, but yeah, it’s better for the, as a producer of a show to be able to look at your ticket sales and have accurate numbers and not have to rely on selling 50% of those tickets an hour before the show. Well to know when you start the day, like, okay, so today we have this many shows sold, we have to push to get this many people. It is so helpful.
Yeah. Yeah. Or to know, we’re sold out.
Exactly. There’s no reason to go out. Yeah.
We can relax. Yeah. Which, you know, very few people get to get to do, but it’s nice if you can.
Um, in terms of, I mean, in terms of expanding the brand and sort of like adding the satellite venues, are there other things that you want to see, um, done, uh, an idea that you have for the future? I think we’re just looking at ways to be a bit more of a service organization. So whether that’s through our box office, our performance portal, like how we can sort of help artists throughout the year. I think we do a really great job when someone is in fringe from sort of February on right up until the festival of helping them step-by-step, which allows them to then go on and produce, you know, self-produced shows.
And I think there might be other ways that we can support people throughout the year with particularly an independent theatre, you know, small companies that need box office support or whatever that looks like. I don’t, I don’t know exactly, but I think positioning ourselves a little bit more in that way. And one of the things that people, I think felt with the, you know, the move to your, the new, the new location was the loss of the, the, uh, the rehearsal spaces.
Oh yeah. The creation app. Yeah.
Which is really, I think a lot of people, you know, we’re leaning on a bit. Is that something that you want to see restored or is that something that’s just not feasible? Well, I think it’s, we, you know, we’re in a sort of research phase right now. We’re just about to, we’re undergoing, um, we will be undergoing a new, another strategic plan.
So adding onto the one that we just finished. Um, and so a lot of that will be around creation lab space or rehearsal space. It will be around, you know, whether or not we need to have a year round venue like other fringes do.
I think, you know, the creation lab, the model of $6 an hour is probably not sustainable in this climate. You can’t rent a space to them, you know, rent to, um, for people to use for workshops or rehearsal space at that amount anymore. And I think people are used to now, I mean, I think probably the cheapest in the city is 10, $12 an hour.
Yeah. So, you know, the people that were have probably either gone up and spent the 10 or have gone back to sort of, you know, their living rooms and coffee shops and stuff like that to do what they were doing before. Um, so I, I think it will depend, you know, and the other hard part is trying to find a space that’s accessible because there are, you know, there are places we looked, we looked for a long time when, when the, when we first knew we were going to be without the creation lab at CSI, we looked and the problem is that so many of them were these sort of older buildings.
They were, you know, either in the basement or upstairs with no elevator. And with our commitment to accessibility, we just simply can’t do that. So that’s a big, um, you know, that’s a, that’s something we have to consider as well, finding space, ground level space, or at least elevator accessible space.
And also just the running of that space, you know, like it’s take some admin times as well. And so we kind of have to look at as well as like, what is, what is the purpose of the Toronto Fringe and, you know, what should we be focusing on? And where are we most needed in the community? Um, so I think that’s what we’ll find out as we sort of undergo the strategic plan. I definitely think, you know, this office is great, but again, we don’t have a sort of separate meeting room and it’s not accessible.
So these are things that we’d like to change over the next little while as well. So yeah, we’ll see. Yeah.
Do you mind if I ask you a couple of like, uh, I would call it a bit of a difficult question. Um, so having, having gone on a couple of, a couple of Fringe tours, Toronto, Toronto Fringe is a bit of an outlier in terms of the, what other cities would call the BYOV, the Bring Your Own Venue, that Toronto Fringe refers to as the site specific. You have places like Edmonton, which has a couple of spaces, which are curated, um, BYOV spaces that, and, and Winnipeg has similar things, but, and Toronto had that for a little while or had the ability to do that.
And then, and then sort of backed off and sort of like came, started doing the site specific. Um, in terms of the reason behind that, do you see that as sort of a, a barrier to, to some groups or is it, what is your feeling on the difference between the BYOV and the site specific? Well, I think when you say curated at Winnipeg, Wyomington, is it curated by the Fringe or by the, the owners of the venue? By the venue owners. So yeah.
So it would be similar to like a small theatre space here saying art will open our doors and be, yeah. So I think, you know, originally the idea was that it was, it was sort of felt like it was an, people were able to bypass the lottery process so they could go and have like a mini hub of a, of a venue. And, um, and because the Fringe is all about the lottery or first come first served, it didn’t feel like it was fitting in with the mandate of that.
So, and then I think, I mean, I wasn’t around when that, the decision was made to move to site specifics, but my understanding is that the intention was to, to have a more dynamic use of space so that it became, it wasn’t just about doing another theatre show. We have those, it was about offering our audience and our artists something alternative. So a space that was part of the show that you couldn’t just be like, I didn’t get in the lottery.
I’m just going to rent this theatre space and use it instead. It was like, I’m going to do a show in a bathroom or whatever. So I think that’s exciting in that respect.
We’ve taught, we’ve gone back and forth about potentially having spaces that are sort of Fringe approved and then people can apply to them. I think for me, it’s about figuring out what the saturation point is, right? Like, I don’t want to start, I mean, I don’t want to start over-programming and having too many shows when, when not enough shows are selling out, not enough shows are getting their best audience. There’s a fine balance, I think, of like wanting to offer as much as possible in, in with the intent that you bring more people, they’re going to see more stuff.
But there’s also a point where you go, this is too many shows. It’s not, it’s not manageable anymore. So I think with the site, because a lot of the site specifics as well, as well as smaller venues, then you, you can program more in that respect.
And the truth is as well, it may be that a model that we have to sort of look at because venue rentals are just more and more expensive. And so the site specific model is, you know, a little bit more affordable for us as an organization to be able to do it that way. So it’s, it’s a balance, you know, I think I want to be able to offer the main venues and, you know, we work with a number of venues, as you know, in the city who, who look after us and, you know, and, and help us as the Fringe because they want us there.
But, you know, those costs go up and our, our revenue doesn’t go up. So that’s the, that’s the struggle. So, so we’ll see what happens with site specifics.
I’m curious to see how this, you know, idea of the satellite venues and increasing the neighborhoods sections, see what that brings to us. We’re sort of leaving it open to see what people want to pitch to us. But I think it’s about creating a diversity in venue.
And I think it’s about creating opportunities for people that are specific about the show, you know, that it isn’t just a way of, of, of doing a show that they could do in a theatre, you know. And the satellite venues, are you putting any limitations on where in the city they could be? Or could somebody come and say, I have a venue that I want to do in North York? I mean, what we’ve said, what we’re going to say, we’re announcing them next week is that it’s TTC accessible essentially. So that it’s as long as someone can get there by TTC, I sort of feel like it’s possible to do something in North York.
I think it could be kind of cool to do something in North York. You know, we’ll put together a sort of, we’re putting suggestions of neighborhoods that people might want to be interested in, the Danforth or High Park, you know, Roncesvalles. And just seeing what comes to us and then, and then take it from there.
So we’ll see if people are interested in doing it. That’s cool. It is cool.
I think I’m trying to think of venues because the idea of, one of the things about the smaller area is people can walk. Okay. It’s a bit of a hike sometimes to go from one to another, but you could walk from one venue to another, which is, which is one of the exciting things about Fringe and it’s confined space.
There are so many spaces outside of that that are crying out for a show. I think so. And I think, you know, we’ve done a lot of kind of analysis of our audience and we know that people are coming from across the city.
So, you know, they may be coming just for one night to see a show. So if they, if they can also see a show that’s in their neighborhood as well, and they don’t, you know, obviously the, the idea is that they go and see a show in the East End and then pick up a Fringe brochure and go, Oh, this is also happening. Great.
I’m going to come and see more. But even if they just go and see something in their neighborhood, I think that’s kind of nice to, you know, going back to your point of like being known across the city, right? Like we have to go into those neighborhoods for them to know us. Well, that is, that is, that is true.
That is true because right now it is a little bit. It’s very, yeah. Very kind of West End focus.
We talk to each other about Fringe. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah. I want to back off on talking about Fringe for a bit. I want to talk a little bit more about, about, about you and your theatre life because we sort of touched on that a bit.
When did you first start thinking, when did you first decide that theatre was something you were interested in? Do you remember your first theatre experience? Well, I mean, when I was, you know, I have three sisters, we would put on plays, you know, every holiday, every possible chance, you know, I would write stuff, we would perform stuff. So since I was a kid, we were just talking about that the other day, like at what point, why, I think my parents took us to see theatre a lot. So I was exposed to it and, you know, sort of fell in love with it.
And then, you know, did drama, did, did sort of clubs outside of school and was in the local pantomime and things like that. So from a young age, I was performing. Yeah.
And then just, you know, kept going. Were you the instigator of those holiday plays? Or can you even pinpoint who was the person who was like, it was probably my elder sister to start off with, but eventually because of the age gap, I guess it was my, myself and my younger sister. And I was definitely the instigator.
I made her. You were the middle child. There’s two above me and one below me.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Middle-ish. Exactly. And when did you start doing stuff outside of the stuff that you do in your living room? I mean, probably, I think my first sort of like public thing was the pantomime.
And I must’ve been probably about 12 or 13, I think. Yeah. I think.
When, when did you come to Toronto? The first time was in 2001. Yeah. What brought you here? A boy.
So I wanted to say, was it a boy, but I didn’t want to assume it, but it was a boy. And how long were you here? I was here at that time on and off for around four years. I would kind of go back and forth.
And then I went home for about three years as I applied for the permanent residency. And then while I was living in England, I got the paperwork to say that I could come back to Canada. And then was sort of intending to come back to Toronto and then got a job offer in Montreal to work for Just for Laughs.
So moved to Montreal, not knowing anyone and started a life in Montreal. Like, did you speak French in Montreal? I mean, very, very basic. Yeah.
How was that? I mean, I know as a visitor, I can get by Montreal with my almost non-existent French, but as somebody living and working there, how is that? It was tough. I mean, I worked in the English part of Just for Laughs. So my colleagues all spoke English, but I was very determined to speak French.
So whenever I went anywhere, I would speak French and often they would speak to me in English and I would just keep speaking in French, which I’m sure was super frustrating. But I was like, if I’m living in Montreal and I want to live in Montreal, I’m going to speak the language. So I spoke French a lot and my French was pretty good by the end of it.
It’s all gone now. I was about to ask how it is now, but how long has it been since you used it? I mean, probably since I lived in Montreal. So what’s that, like seven years ago now or something? It’s always when I’ve been involved with the Montreal French, the way that the staff just puts back and forth between English and French just floors me.
Yeah. I love it. Yeah.
And they have their evening show, technically morning show, the 13th hour. Oh yeah. Where the hosts will flip back and forth.
It’s just like always like, how are you doing this? I know. It’s very cool. And when you left Just for Laughs, was that to come to Toronto or did you go back to England at that point? No, I came to Toronto.
I quit Just for Laughs and sort of didn’t really have a plan and so sort of messed around in Montreal for a while, but the whole time with an eye on moving back to Toronto. But it was hard. Like people, it’s hard in this city.
I think, you know, people want to hire people from Toronto, you know? So I had to sort of prove myself and then Necessary Angel took a chance on me. And so I was able to come back with them and from there just sort of moved into Summerworks and then French. Yeah.
How long were you with Summerworks? Two years, I guess. Yeah, yeah. In terms of like, if you were to compare the, I didn’t want to, like, it’s hard to even put the question together.
But because they’re two very different festivals. One very curated and one is a beautiful anarchy decided by a lottery. Did you find a certain, like, did you enjoy your time at Summerworks or was that? Yeah, I did.
I mean, it was hard work. Like, there had only been Joanna before me who had done that, the general management position. So before then, that position hadn’t even existed.
So it had been, you know, Michael and before him, Franco and, you know, people kind of doing, kind of like Laura is now doing everything, which is hard. It’s so hard. And so there was a lot to sort of catch up with to kind of make the organization solid.
So it was hard work. You know, it’s a much smaller team. It’s, you know, you don’t have as much money.
It’s a smaller budget, you know, but it was great. I mean, it was a real introduction to so many artists in the city and so many great people that I got to work with. So I’m glad I did it.
But then moving to Fringe, I was like, oh, there are people that, you know, reconcile the box office. I don’t have to do that. Or, you know, all the kind of stuff that I had done at SummerWorks by myself.
I then had a staff at Fringe to help with. So that was a big thing. You know, the Fringe is very, even though they’ve been around for almost the same amount of time, the Fringe has just got a really solid base to it.
So it’s kind of a luxury walking into an organization. SummerWorks has changed what it is. I remember when they started and it was like, Fringe, light.
In fact, it was a first come, first serve. I remember. Oh, was it? Yeah.
You can get your application in the door in time. You were in the show. And I think I always feel like it’s a little less defined as a thing.
And well, I mean, Fringe is what it is. And it’s like, it’s so democratic and it could be anything. Yeah.
Yeah. And I think, you know, that’s the difference, I guess, is like having an executive director and having an artistic director. You know, I think that Laura has, you know, I hope she sticks it out because I think now she’s kind of gone through it and she will be able to, I think, help define where SummerWorks sits within the sort of culture of the city, you know, because, yeah, it’s a very different festival.
And I think she’ll do great things with it, for sure. She already is. But yeah, I think if she has the time and she gets the resources, it’ll be it’ll be great.
Yeah. No, there was some pretty spectacular stuff this summer. Oh, was it? Yeah.
I didn’t get to see it. Well, there was the one show, the drag show, where they put up a revival tent in the theatre, like they closed. Oh, wow.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I had. Yeah.
Very cool. Yeah. And you’ve also got Nextage to talk about as well.
When in the cycle do you start turning your attention to Nextage? Or is there a way to divide the two thought processes? No, it sort of all happens at the same time. So because we, you know, we program Nextage throughout sort of the end of Fringe and beginning of, well, end of July, essentially, so that we’ve programmed it by the beginning of August. And then so people know, so we have Nextage lined up at the same time.
We actually, last year, I delayed like the lottery and all of the contests by a month because A, everybody either applies on the first or the last day. So they really don’t need two months. And so it gave us a bit of breathing room to focus a bit more on Nextage.
So, but essentially, we’re kind of juggling. So we have Nextage, everything happening with Nextage right now, as well as administering the lottery, administering the new play contest, the Paula Sullivan, the theatre creative reserve, which is now called something else. But so it’s all kind of happening.
And then we really, once the lottery is done, which will be December 1st this year, so there’ll be about a week of stuff admin around that, then we kind of ignore Fringe until after Nextage. And then as soon as Nextage is done, then we revert back to Fringe. So there’s a good two months when Nextage gets, is my number one child.
But for you, like it never really stops. No, no, no. People, yeah, I think people were always like, what do you do for the rest of the year? But it’s a full time full year round adventure.
But Nextage is nice because it’s much smaller and we get to see all the shows and you’re much, we’re much more involved with the companies and it’s a nice… Do you ever get to see some Fringe shows or are you just too busy? I see a couple, like I saw three this year. So I try and see a couple, especially if there’s stuff that we have an eye on for Nextage, I’ll try and see stuff. But normally, yeah.
The thing is, as well, I was saying this the other day, during Fringe, you’re just kind of, you’re not the best audience member. You’re tired, you’re focused on other stuff. You’re worried who’s trying to get you on the radio.
So you don’t make a good person in the audience. So Nextage is better because we’re much more relaxed and the nights aren’t so long. I mean, I think one of the things that a lot of people don’t even know is like during Fringe, what are you doing? Because, I mean, obviously there’s a lot to do, but I think that most people who are involved with Fringe, they would have no idea what the executive director or the gentleman does.
Yeah. I mean, most of it is reacting. You’re there for when things go wrong.
I mean, certainly as the managing director, I was there to support all of the team. So I’d be there when people had issues, people wanted to talk through stuff. You’re kind of a bit of a cheerleader and also you’re dealing with most of the complaints.
So I think people don’t realize with the Fringe, our patrons, our artists, they have direct access to the managing director and executive director. So often we’re dealing with the minutiae of the organization. And then we’re there as a presence throughout the whole evening to oversee if there’s anything that goes wrong, if there are any security incidences, like anything, we’re just overseeing the whole thing.
So really Fringe is bonkers. It’s nonstop. It’s not very much sleep because there’s always just something to consider.
You know, the goal obviously is that you’ve set everything up, so it’s all going to run smoothly. And it does. But for sure, there’s every day.
Of course, there’s just stuff that happens, you know. Do you find that you spend most of your time in the office or are you out running around everywhere? No, I’m mostly in the office. Yeah.
Because, you know, if there’s an issue, the front of house managers will go or the volunteer, you know, coordinators will go or the production manager, technical director. They kind of are more out on the field. Myself and Kelly would spend most of our time.
We’re quite heavily involved with the box office, I would say, like that’s a lot of what we’re doing. So dealing with our working with our box office manager to just, you know, kind of facilitate that. Yeah.
And one of the other things I sort of great people can like talk about things that they don’t usually get to see. But what is what goes into the lottery? Like some people just think, you know, you apply a bunch of numbers and there you go. But what goes into the lottery for free? Well, I mean, because there’s different categories.
So this is our first year that we’re using a new performance portal. So you can apply now online and you can apply to whichever category is in the main lottery that you want to. So Ontario 1690, French kids, dance, international, national.
There’s also you can also at the same time apply for our culturally diverse artist project if you’re applying. And you can choose the same categories, you know, Ontario, 60, et cetera. It’s not bound by any geography, I don’t think.
And then there’s also our accessible lotteries. So that’s so both of those are free lotteries. And if you get accepted into those lotteries, if you get accepted into the fringe, you don’t pay the participation fee.
So it’s great. So now you can apply if you’re eligible, you can apply for all three things at once or whatever of the things you do. So once it’s closed off, you’ve paid your 29 bucks and give us your money to pay if you do get accepted.
We don’t cash it. I know some fringes cash it and then return it. We don’t do that.
We just hold on to it. It would be a nightmare. It’s actually like really nerve wracking for those ones that do like give them the money, they cash it.
And then if you don’t get him to give it back, how do you even manage that? Because you’re giving back more money. Yeah, no, I know. That feels to me like too much of a nightmare.
So we just keep the details or checks or whatever. And then so once the lotteries closed, we then will go through them to make sure that people haven’t made mistakes to be like you applied for national, but you live in Toronto and that kind of stuff, which happens a little bit. And then all the numbers will get randomly assigned.
So everybody gets a number, then they’re within their category, and then they will be emailed their number. So if you’ve applied for more than one lottery, you’ll get three different numbers or two different numbers. And then we have a bunch of cards with the numbers already on them.
We’ll add to the numbers if there are more in each category, we they get strung together. And then on the night of the lottery, those batches of numbers get taken around the audience to be verified to make sure that if it says number one to 50 is in this pile, somebody checks through to make sure numbers one to 50 people, we get a little post-it note and it gets signed off by three or four people, just in the audience to make sure that there’s no funny business or if a card has been removed because someone’s dropped out or hasn’t paid their fee, then that’s clear as well. And then they literally get cut, the string gets cut on the night into the big blue bin, shaked around, and then we have our NSTF artists come and pull numbers out of the bin.
And always people think, you know, oh, shake it up, shake it up, but it’s like, it’s random. They’re in there, swinging around with their hand, pulling out a number. No, the shake it up, that’s the optics of it.
Because I think all of those things happen because there are always those people who say, oh, it’s fixed. You see people every year. It’s not the random.
There’s always those naysayers, but there’s so many things that are done to show that it’s not. It’s not, yeah. So much stuff.
And the truth is, it’s just charts. And certainly like, you know, in the National, you’ll see sometimes, yeah, the same people get picked year after year, and it’s, but it’s because of the size of the National. Exactly.
There’s less, you know, you’ve got more chance of getting into that than you do Ontario 60, right? Because there’s like 500 people that apply or something for that, for, you know, not very many spaces. There’s like 60 spaces in there? Well, this year there’ll be a hundred, yeah, I don’t, I can’t remember exactly what it is, but yeah, something like that. And then we do, we’re part of the CAF lottery as well.
So for the touring, at least one of the slots goes to CAF. Yeah, well, up to 10 slots can go to CAF. Yeah.
So depending on who gets pulled from that, if they’re international, national, or Ontario, and what category they choose. So yeah. Yeah.
It’s not the highest odds to get in. I mean, we, I think everybody from Toronto has applied at least once. We all know.
I know the odds are against you. No. And it’s, it’s one of those, but that’s part of it.
And that’s part of the excitement of it because it could be, could be anybody. Exactly. And that’s the joy of it.
And I would love to find a way where we’re trying to talk about this, like for those people that could somehow, if we had the proof, I don’t know that our records would go back far enough to prove that some, if you had applied 10 or more times to the fringe and never got in, you could, you could be entered into a separate lottery. And so one person from there would get pulled that had, we knew for a fact had applied and never got in. But I don’t know how we would figure that out.
That would be very difficult to administer because it’s been a whole long time that things were not really that computerized. Exactly. Yeah.
We’d have to rely on people’s honesty. And it’s fringe. Yeah.
There’s people who, there’s all these people who are like, so if you apply under this name and you apply under this name, which is like, is there, I mean, I know you guys look for that. Is there, do you have like ways of finding it? Or is it just like, no, I mean, I, you know, I can sort of hazard guesses if I recognize names and go, I’m pretty sure this is a, but you know, the, the point is, you know, we’ve talked before about, cause some, some fringes don’t have the same rules as that. So in theory, you know, you kind of go, well, what’s the harm if somebody wants to apply five times and pay the fee five times, why not? We make more money.
They stand more chance, but then it just takes away this feeling of fairness because then somebody that’s like, well, I can’t afford to pay five times. I can only afford one time that. And then if you get pulled more than once, how do I know which product, you know, and I’m going to have you in the fringe doing two shots.
Like it’s, so it’s easy for us to go one show each. If it comes, you know, we know that obviously people try and find ways, but most people are, it’s like them and a buddy and they work it out. Yeah.
That’s fine. Of course. But I think the idea being that you just want to kind of make it as fair, especially financially fair.
No. Cause I mean, if, if somebody could put in as many applications as they wanted, somebody who had a lot of money, couldn’t really put in a lot. And then it’s not a democratic.
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.
Um, on the night of the fringe, like who, who does the work of planning out the, the, the fringe lottery night and how that goes? Is there, do you have an events director who does that? Or is it just like everybody just pitches in? Everybody pitches in. So it’s mostly been me. And so hopefully by this point, there’ll be a new me to do that so I can pass it on.
But we have, you know, everybody sort of works on different things. So Tessa, our communications will be dealing with the logistics about, you know, we have people, we film people or we, we photograph people who’ve won and they sort of have the little chalkboard saying I won the lottery and we do, you know, press on the night essentially for them. And then Cody takes care of our, you know, donors and sponsors that need to be there and we order a big cake.
So we have Kevin working with us right now, our projects manager, he’ll help with a lot of that stuff, but mostly it’s just the team and you know, it’s, and then we get some of the board members to come and verify and Sue Edworthy comes and tweets for us. And so we have like, we have a good system. Yeah.
One of my favorite things is the Sue Edworthy tweets. Even if I’m in the room, I always like to follow the Sue Edworthy tweets. There’s a lot of personality.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And is there, what’s your favorite part of the lottery night? Um, I don’t know.
It’s just, it’s, it’s, that’s the part where it’s like, it feels, oh, this is happening. You know, it’s very exciting. It’s kind of sad because oftentimes there are more people in the room that are disappointed than happy, but it’s, you know, it’s nice when you’re there and seeing someone’s getting, someone gets in, you know, that night and they’re so excited and happy.
Like it’s, it’s nice when you see names that you recognize. And as a producer, I kind of go, oh, that’s good news. I’m glad they’re in.
So, you know, that’s kind of fun. And then it’s just like a chance for us as a staff to kind of go and hang out and, you know, you get to meet, um, you just get to meet people, you know, who are interested in stuff and it’s just, yeah, it’s been a fun event. You know, we’ve been doing it at the transect for a few years now and it’s, it’s just a nice, it’s kind of a little kickstart to the, the fringe season.
I always feel like it’s nice to do it at the transect because that’s sort of like the old home of the fringe. I mean, I remember, um, the fringe tent and having to vacate at 11 o’clock and go inside because the neighbors were angry and that sort of thing, but it’s, it’s nice to go back there at least for a bit. Yeah, exactly.
Pay homage to the transect. Yeah. It’s fun.
Yeah. Um, in terms of, so you’ve got next stage and, and that’s now set, right? Yes. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, you’ve got the fringe lottery coming up.
This, this will go out, uh, like the week of the fringe lottery. Oh, okay. We’ll be talking about, we’ll be talking about fringe that very week.
And, uh, is there like, there’s so many things that you’re doing. Is there something that, that, that you most look forward to in the coming weeks, months? Is there like one thing that’s like your bright point? I’m looking forward to going to the CAF conference, which is in San Diego this year. So that’d be nice.
Yeah. Because they did world fringe. So that’s really nice because we get, I get to hang out with all people, people that do this every day and we all get each other and we swap ideas and you kind of come back full of like, Oh, we could try this.
And so we’ve come, we’ve, it’s been such a huge learning opportunity to go do that. So that’s really fun. And then, yeah, I’m excited for the new person to start in the managing director position so that we can, I can kind of really settle into the exec position and kind of start planning some radical things.
It’s going to be hard to be doing both jobs. Yeah. It’s a bit exhausting at the moment.
Yeah. Do you already have like, you know where that person’s going to sit and you look wastefully over it? Well, it’s funny. I’m still at my desk and I’m going to be moving over to the exec desk.
I feel like I need to psychologically make the change, but I haven’t done it yet, but I will. Moving a desk is a big step. I think so.
Yeah. And Kelly always kept her desk much tidier than mine, so I’m hoping that that will rub off on me. Well, maybe it will.
The ghost of Kelly will help you keep your desk cleaner. Well, thank you so much for talking with me. Oh, it’s been my pleasure.
Anytime. Thank you.
